Bingo, particularly the penultimate paragraph.

When the history of our era is written half a century from now, I'll bet that satellite TV and the internet get far more credit for democratizing the Middle East than any military intervention ever does.

I don't know about fifty years from now, but twenty years from now, America will still be trying to install puppet dictators throughout the Middle East.

When the history of our era is written half a century from now, I'll bet that satellite TV and the internet get far more credit for democratizing the Middle East than any military intervention ever does.

I completely agree.
And how could it be any other way?
It is so deeply pathetic that Bush's only tools for "total victory" is military intervention; occupation and torture. As well as illegal surveillance on Americans. This approach seems exclusively designed to create only more enemies. Abroad and at home.

Yeah, BOY Al Jazeerah had a lot to do with bringing Democracy to Iraq, Lebanon, Isreal, Palestine, yep..sure did.

Just think, if it weren't for Bush and the US military, Iraq would have been a democray years earlier.

AND JUST WHAT BAD NEWS ARE ARAB JOURNALISTS SPREADING??

THE LIBERATION OF IRAQ?
THE LIBERATION OF LEBANON?
THE LIBERATION OF PALESTINE?

JUST WHEN IS AL JAZEERAH GOING TO START LIBERATING?

AND ISN'T IT A FACT AL JAZEERAH WOULD NOT BE FREE TO DO WHAT IT IS DOING BUT FOR THE UNITED STATES?

If Saddam had taken over Kuwait and Saudi Arabia in 1991 he would have also taken over
Qatar as well since they only have one connection to the mainland and no military to speak of...all they have is the protection of the US military and the US government to keep from being raped like Kuwait was.

SO IT IS THE US MILITARY THAT KEPT AL JAZEERAH FREE AS WELL.

Of course, I wouldn't expect a liberal to grasp that. Lets see Al Jazeerah set up shop in Tehran and start broadcasting talk of freedom for the Iranian people and see how fast they get a cattle prod up the butt.

Al-Jazeera might well be the greatest force for reform in the entire history of the region unless its headquarters gets blown to bits by Bush's mission to spread freedum to the Middle East, on which it has always seemed a collision course. Al Jazeeera the few times, I have read it in English, seems quite credible and surprisingly well-rounded, all the more a useful target and an impediment to those who want to see their brand of democracy or theocracy imposed, particularly in Iraq.

I bet Kevins going to tell us it was the media that liberated Europe during WWII as well, right??

From my tiny, tiny knowledge base, I'm pretty sure Kevin is right.

Imagine how much good Al-Jazeera could do if the United States had not invaded Iraq-- not "overthrowing a government by itself" good, but "spreading freedom gradually, incrementally, by helping to build a civil society" good.

Nice site, too-- their model is (quite rightly) the BBC: http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

Maybe not Patton, but it was Gorbachev's policy of glastnost that led to the collapse of the Soviet Union and liberation of Eastern Europe.

Patton,
You're lost.

1. Saddam would never have taken over Saudi Arabia in '91 as they had a very capable airforce, 500,000 US and coalition troops, and probably the bomb since they funded Pakistan's nuclear program for some mystery reward in exchange.
Q: And what did the US get for stationing troops in Saudi Arabia?
A: 9/11.

2. Bush is doing everything he can to make the Iraqi elected government as Tehran-friendly as possible. The big winner in this act of liberation is turning out to be Iran.
Why?
Show me you're not really lost, Patton.

Wow! Life in the reality based community sucks! Stop and smell the roses once in a while.

Reagan proved the world does well when America leads. Bush is proving it again. Standing atop Reagan's shoulders we are initiaitng a 2nd major wave of freedom after his victory over socialism. Celebrate the fact Bush is not only able to extend freedom but design the mechanism to allow American Exceptionalism to flower.

All but gone are the democratic agencies set up after WWII that have become ossified by liberalism. The UN and NATO exist but are relevent only to the extent the USA conveys relevence. Kyoto is a disaster so it is a dead letter, all but replaced by the Asian-Pacific Partnership. In the future the USA will lead because only we can and as long as a Republican is President they will be no apologies for our exceptionalism. Instead, we will spread it.

Steve,

Gorby was a putz, possibly even a bigger putz than Jimmy Carter if that's possible. The Soviet Union didn't collapse. Reagan crushed them.

rdw, does spending the holidays drunk and alone ever get old for you?

The Soviet Union didn't collapse. Reagan crushed them.

Yes, yes, we know, Reagan walked across the Atlantic and smote the entire Red Army with the jawbone of Pat Buchanan. Whatever you say.

I beg to differ. The Soviet Union collapsed under it's own weight. Reagan quadrupled the national debt on a defense spending-spree that mortgaged our children's futures and at best hastened the demise of the USSR by perhaps 5 years. McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Levi's and Coca-Cola did as much or more to overthrow communism than Reagan. He wasn't a God, people. He was just a bad actor (and lousy father) who entered politics by being elected as head of the Screen Actors Guild.

global citizen,

Reagan actually predicted this. Name ONE member of the liberal intelligencia, academia, Carter's administration or Clinton's Administration who did the same.

Name ONE!

I'll name 10 who trashed Reagan scolding him because we had to learn to live with Russia because they had a viable system and would be around for a long time. Let's start with Mad Maddy, Richard Holbrook and Strobe Talbot.

Videotape is a bitch! Search engines are worse! The liberals critized EVERYTHING Reagan did and they were wrong EVERY Time.

Oh no, Global Citizen has thrown the gauntlet. Criticizing the Beloved Saint Ron the Befuddled. Now, watch out for the counter attack by that "Veteran" Wootless who sailed the ocean blue on his floating grocery store.

The Chiefs won in a quagmire at Arrowhead.

rdw, does spending the holidays drunk and alone ever get old for you?

That's just so mean. rdw has a whole harem of us glad girls catering to his every whim. Grover, Karl, Ralph, and Tom came over for dinner last night. That Ralph is so lively after three shots of 151. Tee hee. I missed that nice Mr. Abramhoff. He gave the nicest Chanukah gifts, but what with the War on Christmas and all I guess he couldn't really come, I mean, it would have been fraternizing (isn't that a nice big word - rdw gives us vocabulary classes). Oops got to run, time for another glad game (It took a while for me to truly be glad about the whips and chains, but if rdw just says things often enough they become true.)

But when all is said and done, Al-Jazeera might well be the greatest force for reform in the entire history of the region.

Ironically that was exactly what Bush said to Blair when he tried to justify bombing them.

I understand Blair talked him out of it.

I think rdw is getting rhetorical and trying to shift the thread off-topic so people won't walk away from the post w/ the memory of what Kevin said fresh in their minds.

Anyway, liberals don't have to believe that the USSR was strong or that it was going to continue in order to also believe that Reagan was a putz.

I think Al-Jazeera's widely reported fairness is preceisely the reason why neocons hate Al-Jazeera so much. It makes Al-Jazeera more credible when they report on points that don't make neocon policy sound very hummane.

Similarly, I get the impression that hardcore goopers are more annoyed by a Kevin Drum than they are by an Atrios-- I think they'd love to co-opt you a bit, Kevin. Washington Monthly always sounded very reasonable to me, although I do count myself in the camp that find you a little slow on the draw, sometimes-- maybe that's just my personality.

"To respond by attacking the Arab journalist messengers who carry the bad news, however, rather than addressing the contentious underlying political problems between the U.S., Israel and the Arab world, is a sign of political amateurism and personal emotionalism."

They attack the US politicians, journalists and academics who attempt to carry this bad news. Why would they stop at arab journalists?

It's not a sign of political amateurism, it's a sign of political hegemony.

Has anyone here seen the doccumentary Control Room? It is about Al Jazeera. I certainly didn't walk away from viewing that movie feeling like Al Jazeera was the "mouthpiece for Osama bin Laden" as the neocons insist.

Khouri of the Daily Star suggests that _American_ criticism is badly misguided. Curious how Israel crept in there twice. Jews -are- sneaky, though ...

If Israel has a problem with pan-Arab media, I hardly think that criticism of -policies-, though I'm sure unappreciated and often perfectly legitimate, is the real objection.

I can't speak from any personal knowledge here.

However one of the things that I think has been a problem with the right-wing media in the US -- Fox, Limbaugh, et al. -- is that it provides social validation for a kind of thinking (if you can call it that -- it's really more a kind of feeling) that centers around a sense of victimization and the verbal (at least) acting out of aggression against the purported victimizers. Often this ends up being acted out as mysogyny, racism, or homophobia of one kind or another. The point is that the social validation of this acting out isn't without some negative consequences. In the most extreme cases, for example, I don't think it's unreasonable to hold Gingrich et al. partly responsible for McVeigh's terrorist bombing in Oklahoma City. Sure, he was nuts, but rather than hearing respected public voices disapproving of his thinking, he heard them validating it.

So the question I have is, how are the new Arab media doing in this regard? We see lots of democratic voices in the US media and we also see how much damage they are doing to our society through their irresponsibility. Lots of "points of view" but no real dedication to discerning the truth of the matter. Which in and of itself derogates the notion that there might be some truth of the matter.

When the history of our era is written half a century from now, I'll bet that satellite TV and the internet get far more credit for democratizing the Middle East than any military intervention ever does. And deservedly so.

Satellite tv and the internet are not having such a good effect in areas lacking American troops, such as Syria, areas under PA control, and Iran. In fact, the benefits of the internet and satellite tv, in Arab lands and the mideast generally, are strictly confined to America's military allies.

Your proclivity for these empty-headed anti-American remarks week-in and week-out is almost astonishing. I say "almost" because I have come to expect something really stupid in every post. You need to write your posts early and keep them on your computer, then reread them and rewrite them hours later, removing the idiocies.

As someone else wrote a year or more ago, it's as if you are a troll on your own blog.

It would be churlish to point out to Patton that al-Jazeerah does cover Iran, but as their broadcasts are in Arabic and not Farsi only a small portion of the population of Iran can follow.

Of course most of the blithering on so far, from Left or Right, utterly mistakes the issue. The "liberating" influence of al-Jazeerah is via its free wheeling coverage rather than any "advocacy" of liberation (or not). Debate and freer exchange of information, not advocacy and rhetoric (not that the channel does not have its own rhetoric).

Mr. papageno rdw wants to know if you can come to our party tonight. He invited that nice Mr. Gannon for you, and Mr. Gannon says he has a new cowboy outfit just like that one in the movie that Heath Ledger (he's so dreamy) was wearing. Please come. Ralph promises he won't throw up on you anymore.

Your proclivity for these empty-headed anti-American remarks week-in and week-out is almost astonishing. I say "almost" because I have come to expect something really stupid in every post.

If you are so aggravated and agrieved by Kevin's posts, why are you so onmipresent?

Your proclivity for these empty-headed anti-American remarks week-in and week-out is almost astonishing.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Now, with respect to yet more stupid hand waving assertions:

Satellite tv and the internet are not having such a good effect in areas lacking American troops, such as Syria, areas under PA control, and Iran.

Iran is not Arab, my dear dimwitted fool. Sat TV and similar access has appeared, nevertheless, to have driven much of the younger generation's liberalisation - but Arabic language Sat TV has fuck all to do with Farsi speaking Iran.

As to Syria, an assertion, and the facts are where? Certainly the wobliness of the Ibn Assad regime and Syria's sensitivity to Jazeerah and Arabiyah criticism suggests that there is much going on below the surface.

But what would you know, you're merely repeating ignorant pundit-posturing.

In fact, the benefits of the internet and satellite tv, in Arab lands and the mideast generally, are strictly confined to America's military allies.

In fact, this is a mere assertion of the hand waving I want it to be true for my argument kind.

Your proclivity for these empty-headed anti-American remarks week-in and week-out is almost astonishing. I say "almost" because I have come to expect something really stupid in every post. You need to write your posts early and keep them on your computer, then reread them and rewrite them hours later, removing the idiocies.

Mere whinging. The blog is quite reasonably center left and rarely Anti American by any reasonable standard. Anti Right, well yes, but I should hardly think the two are synonyms.

Reasonable adults can surely see the difference between criticism and "anti American" - indeed had criticism been early on integrated into the United States ludicrously poorly planned Middle Eastern adventures, Iraq might not have been fucked into a cocked hat like it is now.

Bloody whinging drooling ideologues.

In fact, the benefits of the internet and satellite tv, in Arab lands and the mideast generally, are strictly confined to America's military allies.

The first time I ever sat down and watched a full episode of Baywatch was when I was visiting relatives in Karachi, Pakistan ... in 1998.

Your white man's burden aside, you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

dipshit.

PATTON: LOUD DOES NOT MEAN RIGHT.

Tone it down a little.

Chuck: Best to ignore all Patton/Alice posts. He/she/it comes around when the meds run out, about this time of the month. And always, it shouts at the rest of us, stubbornly refusing to learn HTML.

The first time I ever sat down and watched a full episode of Baywatch was when I was visiting relatives in Karachi, Pakistan ... in 1998.
&
Your white man's burden aside, you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

You don't seem to have noticed that your example does not contradict what I wrote. It may be an example of what I wrote if in Pakistan (which is an American military ally that has American troops) the internet has a net democratizing effect. You have posted yet another example of the relentless anti-American illogic that is posted here every day.

What exactly is the "white man's burden" supposed to mean in a thread whose theme is the democritizing effect of an invention of white men, namely the internet and tv?

Iran is not Arab, my dear dimwitted fool.

Well, you dim-witted fool, that was precisely why I wrote "and Iran" instead of leaving it subsumed under some indefinite category. Reading junk like yours would reduce my knowledge if you posted as often as you used to.

As to Syria, an assertion, and the facts are where? Certainly the wobliness of the Ibn Assad regime and Syria's sensitivity to Jazeerah and Arabiyah criticism suggests that there is much going on below the surface.

What is your evidence, to paraphrase yourself, that the "wobbliness" (if any) of the regime is due to factors other than the US=France-pressed UN investigations and the US/France-pressed resurgence of democracy in Lebanon?

I am not committed to either the Democratic or Republican party, but the Democratic idiocy on display here gives me little hope that the Democrats can seriously challenge the current Republican strength in the US.

Reasonable adults can surely see the difference between criticism and "anti American" - indeed had criticism been early on integrated into the United States ludicrously poorly planned Middle Eastern adventures, Iraq might not have been fucked into a cocked hat like it is now.

That's just plain stupid. The criticisms that the American administration did not listen to included all possible logically incompatible recommendations to do something different: more troops, fewer troops, etc.

I hope that Political Animal has a better 2006 than it had 2004 (when it started the year as "Calpundit") and 2005. Well, sort of "hope"; experience suggests otherwise.

If you are so aggravated and agrieved by Kevin's posts, why are you so onmipresent?

"omni" is an exaggeration, I believe. But in answer, as H. L. Mencken replied to a similar query: "Why do people go to zoos?"

More seriously, I seek information from left and right in order that I do not unintentionally miss arguments and information contrary to my views -- arguments and information that might make me change my mind should I learn of it. Month by month, though, this site seems less and less worthwhile. It is probably time for me to leave.

papageno

... the overall coverage of Iraq on the mainstream Arab satellite services has been more comprehensive, balanced and accurate than the coverage of any mainstream American cable or broadcast television service.

You do realize that is exactly why Bush wanted to bomb them, right?

Some of you may be interested in reading Juan Cole's take on Al Jazeera. He wrote and article in Salon magazine about Bush's alledged bombing remarks. See http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2005/11/30/al_jazeera/

That gives me an idea..."Al-Jazeera Cable News Network"...translated in real time, warts and all into english...Think about it!

Don't bother Mr. papageno any more tonight. He and Mr. Gannon are celebrating Christmas Eve like David and Jonathan. I still miss Mr. Abramoff. The presents weren't anywhere near as festive this year. But rdw says that next year, when we win the War on Christmas and Holy George in annointed for an eternal reign, that Mr. Abramoff's gifts will look like the cheap trinkets of Native American welfare that they were. I'm so glad. rdw makes everything so wonderful. He does look a little like Harriet Miers, but his eyeliner is much more skillfully applied.

Rami Khouri is a very smart guy. I'll take anything he says as straight up.

Yeeewh, Ralphie just threw up on Mr. papageno. rdw was so digusted he threw Ralphie out and told Grover he didn't care about his dam taxcuts. Then he took Mr. Gannon upstairs and told us gladgirls he didn't need beards anymore - AND HE IS CLEANSHAVEN...this is the worst Christmas ever. I can't be glad for anything, even how cute Mr. Gannon looked in his cowboy outfit. Yeewh.

Well the P idiot has a response:

Iran is not Arab, my dear dimwitted fool.

Well, you dim-witted fool, that was precisely why I wrote "and Iran" instead of leaving it subsumed under some indefinite category. Reading junk like yours would reduce my knowledge if you posted as often as you used to.

Merely parroting insults is not only rather chimpanzee like, it would be helpful if your parroting made the slightest sense.

But then I suppose you had to be reduced to that given your original comment made no bloody sense.

To recap, insofar as al-Jazeerah is Arabic langauge broadcast only, and most Iranians don't know the language, your idiotic inclusion of Iran made no bloody sense. Rather like mumbling on about al Jazeerah promoting "liberation" in say, the Ukraine....

Regardless, it is hard to imagine your knowledge becoming less.

As to Syria, an assertion, and the facts are where? Certainly the wobliness of the Ibn Assad regime and Syria's sensitivity to Jazeerah and Arabiyah criticism suggests that there is much going on below the surface.

What is your evidence, to paraphrase yourself, that the "wobbliness" (if any) of the regime is due to factors other than the US=France-pressed UN investigations and the US/France-pressed resurgence of democracy in Lebanon?

My evidence? Their rather clumsy and flailing responses to the UN investigation, the recent armed clashes with "militants" in Syria (earlier this month) and Syrian blithering on about armed terrorist groups in Northern Syria.

If one reads the Arabic press one can sniff the sulphur coming up from the cracks there, my dear fellow.

Of course you can blither on about "resurgent democracy" in Lebanon like a gullible fool all you want, merely displays your naive idiocy and gullibility. The Leb intefada was all about the old foxes like our fine Jumblaat playing the well-worn sectarian power struggle with some nicely framed agitprop stories for the naive gullible fools who lap up any kind of errant nonsense that fits some comforting little ideoglurge storyline they want to believe.

I am not committed to either the Democratic or Republican party, but the Democratic idiocy on display here gives me little hope that the Democrats can seriously challenge the current Republican strength in the US.

I couldn't give a bloody damn about either stupid party, and rather frankly, trying to judge any politics by the foolish posturing on blogs is simple minded idiocy, although in keeping with a fool who laps up simple minded agitprop.

Reasonable adults can surely see the difference between criticism and "anti American" - indeed had criticism been early on integrated into the United States ludicrously poorly planned Middle Eastern adventures, Iraq might not have been fucked into a cocked hat like it is now.

That's just plain stupid. The criticisms that the American administration did not listen to included all possible logically incompatible recommendations to do something different: more troops, fewer troops, etc.

Plain stupid? Kha, amusing little bit of puerile posturing and an irrelevancy as a response.

Of course not all criticism is equally valid, but the competent, pragmatic manager or analyst knows what to identify. That is what competence is about, merely squeeling on like a stuck little pig that there was so much contradiction out there merely says one is too stupid to discern value from dross. While I am confident you are quite incapable, I know well from collaborating with US Gov personnel in region that there were plenty of talented US Mil and US Diplos who understood in mid 2003 things were badly fucked and the happy talk "Good News From Iraq" rot was blowing cred and getting in the way of admitting where things were going wrong, need to adjust plans etc.

Ideoglurge, however, took precedence. Indeed, quite Extreme Left Bolshy type thinking among the CPA fools (to add for those with subliterate reading skills: not that they were Left, only their idiot magical thinking was rather reminiscent).

Stupid, then, is puerile juvenile posturing like a simple minded little adolescent twit.

BTW with respect to the idea of "real time" translation of al-Jazeerah, I am afraid that this is simply unrealistic. There are hardly enough top quality simultaneous interpreters out there to realistically sustain such an operation. Nor would the quality be particularly excellent. Interpretation is far more difficult than monolinguals suspect.

To recap, insofar as al-Jazeerah is Arabic langauge broadcast only, and most Iranians don't know the language, your idiotic inclusion of Iran made no bloody sense.

but I was responding to this: When the history of our era is written half a century from now, I'll bet that satellite TV and the internet get far more credit for democratizing the Middle East than any military intervention ever does. And deservedly so. And my point was that the internet and satellite tv do nothing for democritization in those areas of the Middle East that are not American military allies or have no American presence. Mr. Drum did not restrict his comments to those areas of the Middle East that are Arab, and neither did I. That was your idea.

The reason that I called you stupid was that you criticised my knowledge for a mistake that I didn't write. That really is stupid of you, and an example of the idiocy that afflicts this web page every day.

We thought you were leaving. So, buh-bye.

"Mosaic" is a pretty good newscast from the ME. It is on Link TV. lil ole Jim from red country made me remember that news program.

Well, a somewhat mor
but I was responding to this: When the history of our era is written half a century from now, I'll bet that satellite TV and the internet get far more credit for democratizing the Middle East than any military intervention ever does.

Your statement (ignorant and foolish) was "Satellite tv and the internet are not having such a good effect in areas lacking American troops, such as Syria, areas under PA control, and Iran. In fact, the benefits of the internet and satellite tv, in Arab lands and the mideast generally, are strictly confined to America's military allies. read rather easily as referring to the Arab Sats.

Rereading it perhaps is a bit more subtle, but certainly not clear.

Regardless, they're idiotic assertions and false, something you pulled out of your ass simply in reaction to the simple minded anti American posturing that occurs here among the commentators. Perhaps understandable, but regardless remains false and stupid.

And deservedly so. And my point was that the internet and satellite tv do nothing for democritization in those areas of the Middle East that are not American military allies or have no American presence.

Your assertion.

I find it risible, rather stupid American chest thumping.

It is abundantly clear to someone like myself, having spent the better part of 15 years in regionat that the bubbling fermentation of Sat TV is having an influence across the board - the influence has fuck all to do with "US ally" or not, the depth of influence has to do with Sat TV penetration - can people get the cheapie little dishes and decoders or not (and this rather beautifully can be made in country, ocncoted on the cheap in little shops - absolutely beautiful). US presence has fuck all to do with that.

In short, no governement has much to do with this, it's rather beautifully a market driven situation, where micro-entrepreneurs slide underneath the radar of the Leviathan vampire states.

Hard to spot, hard to suppress.

So, rather than your utterly baseless celebrating of US power in its gross form, you might better celebrate the power of cheap technology, entrepreneurship and Qatar's funding of a boat rocking new media. The US, I may add, can be added in for its early support of most of these factors. But US military muscle and alliance has fuck all to do with that (and indeed in places like Egypt a security apparat partially funded by the US rather retards).

Mr. Drum did not restrict his comments to those areas of the Middle East that are Arab, and neither did I. That was your idea.

It was how I read the comments, yours and that Patton bleater.

The reason that I called you stupid was that you criticised my knowledge for a mistake that I didn't write. That really is stupid of you, and an example of the idiocy that afflicts this web page every day.

Spare me the aggrieved exageration. At worst I may have misread your unclear comment, but the overall thrust of your claim remain baseless, mere assertion for blog blithering argumentation.

Regardless, they're idiotic assertions and false, something you pulled out of your ass simply in reaction to the simple minded anti American posturing that occurs here among the commentators.

Good grief! Are we in agreement that there is simple minded anti-American posturing here?

Note that what I wrote is a double negative: in the absence of American influence in the Middle East the internet and tv have no liberal influence.

I did not assert that American military influence necessarily creates a liberal influence in internet and tv.

It was how I read the comments, ... Well, you read my comments wrong. And you did attribute to me a confusion that was yours.

It's not hard to see, by the way, that in the world at large there are significant regions where the internet and tv are having no liberalizing influence: Zimbabwe, China, N. Korea, Russia, Venezuela. The US has stronger military ties with India than with Pakistan, and the infleunce of the internet and tv in the promotion of liberalism is greater in India than in Pakistan. I think that if you scan all the predominantly Islamic countries from Morocco to Indonesia, and those like India, Malaysia, and Singapore that have large Islamic minorities, it really is true that tv and the internet have greater influence for liberalism in those (like Singapore and Thailand) where the US has military ties than in those where the US does not (Malaysia).

But as suggested by the examples of China, Russia, and Venezuela, the "predominantly Islamic" was just a temporary focus of discussion for that paragraph. China is nicely complex since the government liberated the economy but not the politics: hence the internet has had a substantial impact in liberalizing the economy but not the politics. China, like Nazi Germany before, shows that you can have a vibrant economy without political freedom; and you can have dictatorial governmental control over the flow of information without sacrificing economic wealth.

I doubt that you could substantiate Kevin Drum's case: I doubt that the internet and satellite tv can be shown to have a liberalizing effect in general, in areas where (liberal relative to their pasts) countries have no American military presence. Syria? Iran? Libya? areas controlled by the PA? no. Kurdish and Shi'ite areas of Iraq, and some Sunni areas? Oman? Qatar? Bahrain? UAE? yes

Country by country, what do you think? You wrote that the Syrian govt is under threat caused by internet and satellite tv, ignoring the US/France/UN pressure. You might be right, but on the basis of my reading to date, I doubt it. Perhaps you visited Syria and have spoken with Syrian businessmen or government officials who are in the know?

But when all is said and done, Al-Jazeera might well be the greatest force for reform in the entire history of the region.

Now you are beginning to understand Marshall McLuhan.

So Kevin, about six months back you were saying that Iraq was a complete loss and that we should pull our troops immediately. Now you are saying the there will eventually be a democratization of the middle east and you are giving credit to the TV stations. What?

Secondly, you don't think the Americans and the Israeli's have ever tried to "understand" the political differences between us and the Arab world? Are you kidding me? Liberals are a like the Arab world in that everytime you try to "understand" them, they sense weakness and glom on for more. But thank God for the TV stations and their wonderful journalists who are bringing peace and democracy to the middle east. I had a hard time typing that with a straight face.

rdw,

Reagan was presented with the opportunity for nuclear disarmament and he turned it down. Anything else he might have done in his terms will pale next to that moral cowardice in the future. The first time a city gets nuked with a modern nuclear weapon is the last time that Reagan will be spoken about positively. He was one of the most short-sighted presidents the US has had in the 20th century, and you guys only flog the shit out of his presidency because its the only example you can really distort to make it look like aggression is the way to go.

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