Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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December 28, 2005

IT'S ONLY HOMELAND SECURITY....The Washington Post ran a severely unflattering multi-part series last week on the Department of Homeland Security, explaining in alarming detail how the agency has been beset by almost every bureaucratic problem imaginable. You name it -- turf wars, incompetent management, political cronyism, budget shortfalls -- the DHS has had it. About the only project the agency has successfully taken on has been the creation of a logo, and even that took a couple of tries.

With this in mind, House Democrats released a report yesterday (why this couldn't wait until after the holidays is unclear) highlighting the fact that the Department of Homeland Security has fallen short of fulfilling 33 of the agency's own goals. It's not a pretty picture.

DHS pledged to create a list of chemical plants, bridges, skyscrapers and other potential terrorist targets -- at this point the department is over a year late in delivering. The agency also said it would install monitors to screen for radiation material entering the country at borders, seaports, and airports; create an efficient network to share alerts with state, local and private industry officials; and install surveillance cameras at all high-risk chemical plants. None of this has happened.

And while the lack of progress is disconcerting enough, the reaction from DHS was hardly reassuring.

Responding, Homeland Security spokesman Russ Knocke said the department is prioritizing resources and programs based on "today's greatest threats."

"Rather than looking backward at yesterday's threats, we are building upon what we have already accomplished to meet evolving threats," said Knocke.

I can appreciate the fact that these circumstances are tough to spin, but when an agency is found to have fallen short, repeatedly, of its own goals -- and those goals are crucial to keeping Americans safe -- it's not exactly comforting to hear that DHS will build on what they've "already accomplished."

Steve Benen 1:58 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (72)

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Comments

"Rather than worry about fire, flood, and major catastrophe, we are focusing in on future threats. Like militant bunny rabbits and alien invasions. And, um, asteroids."

Posted by: theorajones on December 28, 2005 at 2:13 PM | PERMALINK

"Everything we do at this point will be an improvement upon previous initiatives."

How's that for a good one? :-)

Posted by: steve duncan on December 28, 2005 at 2:13 PM | PERMALINK

GWB is a *war* president. First the Dems want to criticize him for doing too much to make us safe (wiretapping suspected terrorists), then they want to turn around and criticize him for doing too little (because DHS hasn't yet accomplished *everything* it's trying to accomplish). Well you can't have it both ways. Bush right now is focused on making Iraq safe from terror, in case you haven't noticed (oh yes, I forgot you are opposed to that too). Even he can't do *everything* all at once.

Posted by: Tommy on December 28, 2005 at 2:20 PM | PERMALINK

Wow, a government agency being run incompetently. Now I have seen it all.

Posted by: Yancey Ward on December 28, 2005 at 2:22 PM | PERMALINK

Why does this not supprise me?
What has this administration got right?
Who would have guessed that creating a name
and giveing millions of dollars for a organisation
under republican control. Would insure the money
disappears while no results ever matterialises.
Typical of this White Houses scare them and rob
them policy.

Posted by: Honey P on December 28, 2005 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

WRT radiation detection: The engineers have been beating on DHS's door for years with good, practical ideas about how to do this.

DHS is a sample for the sort of federal government we'd get if Bush had complete control of the whole thing.

Posted by: Boronx on December 28, 2005 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

Bush right now is focused on making Iraq safe from terror

He is? I hadn't noticed. Thanks for the tip.

Posted by: lobbygow on December 28, 2005 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

you can see how safe we are....here....


number of days the d.h.s.'s 5-color terror alert system has been operating: 1413


the number of days its been on either of the two lowest colors green or blue: 0

Posted by: thisspaceavailable on December 28, 2005 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

The current mess in Washington is what you get when you elect a bunch of people who's entire worldview is that gov't is a horrible waste of resources and should be dismantled. They believe "bureacrats" are worthless, lazy, do-nothing morons, and that politicians all just steal from their constituents to give to special interests and spend all their efforts on keeping themselves in power.

That's what they believe. That's what they've been telling us they believe, and we elected them and put them in office. Are we now surprised that gov't is becoming exactly what they foretold?

And when we complain about how the gov't is garbage, their solution will not be to vote in the other guy to reform it, but to dismantle it altogether. They're proving to us all that gov't is useless and wasteful by getting in their and *making* it useless and wasteful.

Posted by: Tito on December 28, 2005 at 2:30 PM | PERMALINK

The NSA Scandal Document Center:
- latest Bush spying scandal news
- important DOJ memos
- FISA, War Powers Resolution and other key laws
- Supreme Court cases
- relevant Constitutional provisions

Posted by: AvengingAngel on December 28, 2005 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINK

We go to the War on Terrorism (TM) with the Deparment of Homeland Security we have, not the Department of Homeland Security we wish we had.

Posted by: Stefan on December 28, 2005 at 2:33 PM | PERMALINK

The current mess in Washington is what you get when you elect a bunch of people who's entire worldview is that gov't is a horrible waste of resources and should be dismantled. They believe "bureacrats" are worthless, lazy, do-nothing morons, and that politicians all just steal from their constituents to give to special interests and spend all their efforts on keeping themselves in power.

That's what they believe. That's what they've been telling us they believe, and we elected them and put them in office. Are we now surprised that gov't is becoming exactly what they foretold?

And when we complain about how the gov't is garbage, their solution will not be to vote in the other guy to reform it, but to dismantle it altogether. They're proving to us all that gov't is useless and wasteful by getting in there and *making* it useless and wasteful.

Posted by: Tito on December 28, 2005 at 2:35 PM | PERMALINK

Tommy: GWB is a *war* president. First the Dems want to criticize him for doing too much to make us safe (wiretapping suspected terrorists), then they want to turn around and criticize him for doing too little (because DHS hasn't yet accomplished *everything* it's trying to accomplish). Well you can't have it both ways. Bush right now is focused on making Iraq safe from terror, in case you haven't noticed (oh yes, I forgot you are opposed to that too). Even he can't do *everything* all at once.

Shorter Tommy: first you criticize Bush for being evil, then you criticize him for being incompetent. Well, you can't have it both ways.

Posted by: Stefan on December 28, 2005 at 2:35 PM | PERMALINK

Bush right now is focused on making Iraq safe from terror, in case you haven't noticed (oh yes, I forgot you are opposed to that too). Even he can't do *everything* all at once.

Because if it's a choice between making Iraq or America safe from terrorism, Republicans will choose Iraq every time. Where are your priorities, people?

Astonishing, too, that Bush is now claiming his job is to make Iraq safe from terror when there was no terror prior to our invasion. That's like the Wehrmacht claiming their job was to defend France from the Resistance.

Posted by: Stefan on December 28, 2005 at 2:38 PM | PERMALINK

The Bush Administration Worldview: Wasn't this supposed to be the CEO Government? Every major player in the Bush Administration has a background in business--executives, board members--and wealth. And wasn't having a CEO Government supposed to be a good thing? According to right-wing capitalist nutcases, the free-market business paradigm is perfect for everything, including government and education, two areas where history proves it does not work. Corporate management is inherently anti-Democratic, and now we're seeing what happens when corporate managers try to run the country.

Jeffery

Posted by: Jeffery on December 28, 2005 at 2:45 PM | PERMALINK
The current mess in Washington is what you get when you elect a bunch of people who's entire worldview is that gov't is a horrible waste of resources and should be dismantled.

I don't think that's the worldview of the people elected, but rather a part of their rhetoric designed to secure the support of a particular audience. Their worldview seems, to me, to be more that government is a tool to advance their personal and class power and privilege; they certainly don't work to dismantle government, but in many cases to expand its powers and activities. They do seek to limit its functions that don't serve to reinforce their own power, but that hardly seems to be part of a general anti-government project, whatever the rhetoric may be.

Posted by: cmdicely on December 28, 2005 at 2:51 PM | PERMALINK

stefan, i have to tell you how disconcerting it is to read the likes of tommy and mentally prepare a withering response, then continue to read on and discover your withering response is not only better but also funnier.

cmdicely, your 2:51 remark is perfectly pitched.

Posted by: howard on December 28, 2005 at 2:55 PM | PERMALINK

"Bush right now is focused on making Iraq safe from terror, in case you haven't noticed"

Um, Tommy, isn't the Li'l Fella supposed to be concentrating on making the US safer from terra?
And we're not trying to have it both ways, just one way, competent. Honesty about the public business should be assumed in a US President.

Posted by: jim on December 28, 2005 at 3:03 PM | PERMALINK

Steve Benen cites ABC News:

Responding, Homeland Security spokesman Russ Knocke said the department is prioritizing resources and programs based on "today's greatest threats."

Here is an article about "today's greatest threat", about which the Bush administration is doing absolutely nothing (except making it worse, and making sure that the USA remains completely unprepared to deal with it):

Racing Toward Climate Disaster
by Stephen Leahy
InterPress Service
December 28, 2005

Posted by: SecularAnimist on December 28, 2005 at 3:06 PM | PERMALINK

"Astonishing, too, that Bush is now claiming his job is to make Iraq safe from terror when there was no terror prior to our invasion. That's like the Wehrmacht claiming their job was to defend France from the Resistance.

Posted by: Stefan "

So all those Shiites and Kurds committed suicide ? Mass suicide by poison gas ? I wonder how they did it ?

Actually, it was not the Wermacht defending Vichy from the resistance. It was the Gestapo.

I assume you would have left Hitler in control of France since a large segment of the French supported Vichy and sent thousands of Jews to the gas chambers.

The moral equivalence is amazing.

What do you make of the Tribune deciding Bush didn't lie us into war ?

Posted by: Mike K on December 28, 2005 at 3:12 PM | PERMALINK

Mike K wrote: So all those Shiites and Kurds committed suicide ? Mass suicide by poison gas ? I wonder how they did it ?

Saddam Hussein's worst atrocities and most heinous crimes against humanity were committed with the full support of Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush.

And you know it, you brain-dead, scripted, programmed, neo-brownshirt Bush-bootlicking mental slave.

Posted by: SecularAnimist on December 28, 2005 at 3:15 PM | PERMALINK

Holy moley! Now I'm confused. In the report, they call the administration to task for failing to "secure the border." They're even calling for UAVs on the border.

Are you sure these are Democrats? They sound almost like serious-minded Americans instead of the usual sort of childish race-baiters we've come to expect such as Howard Dean et al. And, during the campaign, John Kerry did mention the DHS' failings, but he never to my knowledge harped on border security. If he had, he'd be president today.

Of course, I'm sure there's some "nuance" involved. They'll call for UAVs on the one hand, but give a wink and a nod to those big corporations that employ illegal aliens on the other.

-- Illegal immigration news

Posted by: TLB on December 28, 2005 at 3:18 PM | PERMALINK

Stefan,
Saddam was a terrorist before we invaded Afghanistan. He terrorized his neighbors and his own people. He harbored Al-Queda terrorists after the invasion of Afghanistan. He never lived up to the cease-fire agreement and multiple U.N. sanctions.

DHS employees are Americans first not political hacks. Monday morning quarterbacks come to mind when I read those comments that pertain to the original post. The rest of you need to get over the fact your party has been losing elections. You would cut off your nose to spite your face. Stop disparaging the patriotic and hard working people that work at the DHS and come up with some constructive critisism that can truly be debated on its merit and stop with the wise cracks and demagoguery and offer your point of view.

If the critique of the DHS by the House Dems is legitimate even if it is used to score cheap political points. Some of the points made are more valid than others. For instance being 6 months late on a report, considering the compexity and the enormity of the task, I think some leeway can be afforded. Explain why they cut from 20 to 8 airports which they will provide assistance. Explain why the monitoring and evaluation of important site is being reduced or taking more time to accomplish.

It is so easy to be a critic. Especially on this blog.

Posted by: berlins on December 28, 2005 at 3:24 PM | PERMALINK

"Bush right now is focused on making Iraq safe from terror, in case you haven't noticed"

How's about he comes over to your house and helps keep you safe from terror the same way?

Posted by: Kenji on December 28, 2005 at 3:24 PM | PERMALINK

So all those Shiites and Kurds committed suicide ? Mass suicide by poison gas ? I wonder how they did it ?

Quite simple: they were murdered by Reagan-and-Bush-backed Saddam Hussein. Terrorism had nothing to do with it.

Actually, it was not the Wermacht defending Vichy from the resistance. It was the Gestapo.

Actually, it was all of them.

I assume you would have left Hitler in control of France since a large segment of the French supported Vichy and sent thousands of Jews to the gas chambers.

Well, I wouldn't, but Prescott Bush and the rest of the right-wing Republican isolationists would have.

Posted by: Stefan on December 28, 2005 at 3:25 PM | PERMALINK

Stefan:
We go to the War on Terrorism (TM) with the Deparment of Homeland Security we have, not the Department of Homeland Security we wish we had.

Except, of course, we didn't go to war with a Department of Homeland Security. The DHS was created after the start of the War Without End.

Also, the name "Department of Homeland Security" is another thing that makes me wonder if I'm the only grown-up left in the room. "Homeland"? What is this, a country run by a 1930s demagogue?

"Department of Domestic Security", please. Jesus.

Posted by: S Ra on December 28, 2005 at 3:29 PM | PERMALINK

So if your lucky enough to get hit by terrorists the gov. is right there to help you If you get hit by a storm you are on your own.

Posted by: scott on December 28, 2005 at 3:31 PM | PERMALINK

Also, the name "Department of Homeland Security" is another thing that makes me wonder if I'm the only grown-up left in the room. "Homeland"? What is this, a country run by a 1930s demagogue?

It is quite Orwellian, isn't it? I'm surprised they didn't go all the way and name it the Department of Motherhood and Apple Pie.

Posted by: Stefan on December 28, 2005 at 3:34 PM | PERMALINK

"GWB is a *war* president. First the Dems want to criticize him for doing too much to make us safe (wiretapping suspected terrorists), then they want to turn around and criticize him for doing too little (because DHS hasn't yet accomplished *everything* it's trying to accomplish). Well you can't have it both ways. Bush right now is focused on making Iraq safe from terror, in case you haven't noticed (oh yes, I forgot you are opposed to that too). Even he can't do *everything* all at once."

What a load of disingenuous crap. No one has a problem with the President trying to keep us safe from attack, it's just that most of us would prefer he did it by legal means and not placing himself above the law. Not only has DHS not accomplished most of what they set out to do, they've accomplished almost nothing of what they set out to do. Isn't HOMELAND security supposed to be his top priority?
Katrina exposed just how not ready we are on the federal level to a major event that disrupts commerce & kills citizens. This should hardly be of a surprise to anyone. DHS was a bad idea when Lieberman suggested it and it was a bad idea when Bush did a flipflop & accepted it. All the problems I thought would occur when you create the 3rd largest agency in the government have come true.I know I didn't feel particularly safer before I read those reports and I don't feel any more secure now. Unfortunately the hardest thing to do after you've created a bureaucracy nightmare, and we all know how good Bush & the Congress are at cutting programs,is to reign it in and control it. So in order for DHS to achieve anything close to success it needs a leader with full authority from the President to kick some ass and cut red tape. Not a political hack with virtually no qualifications. I certainly would not oppose a Tommy Franks or a Wesley Clark being named DHS head. Tom Ridge wasn't the answer and Michael Chernoff clearly isn't the answer either.

Posted by: Nathan on December 28, 2005 at 3:36 PM | PERMALINK

Saddam was a terrorist before we invaded Afghanistan. He terrorized his neighbors and his own people.

Well, we've terrorized our neighbors (see, e.g., Mexico, Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Panama, Nicaragua, Guatemala, etc.) and our own people (see, e.g., the American Indians, the slaves). Since that's your criteria for what makes a terrorist aren't you, therefore, calling the United States of America a terrorist?!? How dare you, sir! I'm not going to sit idly by and listen while you badmouth and malign the good old U.S. of A by calling her a terrorist, no sir!

Posted by: Stefan on December 28, 2005 at 3:38 PM | PERMALINK

IT'S ONLY EDUCATION . . .

Your blase reference to all the bureaucratic problems imaginable perfectly applies to the public school system, particularly in inner-cities. And yet Democrats fight every possible effort to mitigate the effect of that bureaucracy via voucher-based competition and teacher-employment reform. Why? Because "progressives" care more about votes than about children and their education.

I have to gasp in astonishment whenever a "progressive" is shocked . . . shocked to find inefficiency in government management; and it does seem like they only find it when it might impugn a Republican elected official or advance their political agenda.

How about doing our children some good and use some of that anger-driven energy to hunt down bureaucratic inefficiency in public schools!

The Objective Historian

Posted by: The Objective Historian on December 28, 2005 at 3:45 PM | PERMALINK

Actually, it was not the Wermacht defending Vichy from the resistance. It was the Gestapo.

To be a little clearer: Vichy France was the part of France that was (nominally) sovereign and unoccupied by the Germany Army (the Wehrmacht). The rest of France, including Paris, was occupied by the Wehrmacht. The Gestapo, meanwhile, were the secret police. Both the Gestapo and the Wehrmacht were involved in suppressing the Resistance.

Posted by: Stefan on December 28, 2005 at 3:48 PM | PERMALINK

SecularAnimist,

Saddam recieved the majority of his support from Russia and the former Soviet Union followed closely by France and Germany. He had Russian arms and used Russian military advisors and tactics.

Posted by: berlins on December 28, 2005 at 3:51 PM | PERMALINK

Oh, come on. Let's get our priorities straight here:

- We need to focus on Terri Schiavo and her husband's actions 15 years ago.
- We need to continue to blame Bill and Hillary Clinton for every problem in America.
- We need constitutional amendments banning gay marriage and flag burning.
- We need to cut taxes to zero, since everyone knows that will mean infinite amounts of money flowing into the U.S. government's coffers.

That is the GOP agenda. Got it? GOOD!

Posted by: Grover Norquist on December 28, 2005 at 3:51 PM | PERMALINK

berlins - Do we need to pull out the already infamous Rumsfeld/Saddam pic?

Posted by: Kryptik on December 28, 2005 at 3:58 PM | PERMALINK

"(why this couldn't wait until after the holidays is unclear)"

This, unfortunately, is the key line in Steve's post. The ONLY thing the repubs have going for them right now - the ONLY reason they won narrowly last year (OK, along with homophobia) - is their supposed strength in "war on terror". Documented proof that they've fucked the war up big-time would be a devastating way to keep them off-balance at the start of the new year - pressing the advantage gained by Plame, torture, NSA, etc. This is called political strategy. But instead the Dems meekly push this out while all of the press and half of the country are asleep.

Kerry tried to raise some of these issues during the campaign, but his points about chemical plants & ports fell on deaf ears. The groundwork hadn't been laid by other politicians or experts, and the media couldn't fit it into the narrative (weak elitist internationalist vs rough-hewn terror-fighter) they had decided to impose on the campaign, and the Democrats as usual accepted the media's narrative. Now that the press and the people might be more receptive, the Democrats bury the story. Sigh.

Posted by: BC on December 28, 2005 at 3:59 PM | PERMALINK

Stefan,

"Well, we've terrorized our neighbors (see, e.g., Mexico, Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Panama, Nicaragua, Guatemala, etc.) and our own people (see, e.g., the American Indians, the slaves). Since that's your criteria for what makes a terrorist aren't you, therefore, calling the United States of America a terrorist?!? How dare you, sir! I'm not going to sit idly by and listen while you badmouth and malign the good old U.S. of A by calling her a terrorist, no sir!"

When you're ready to come up to speed in the current century let me know, then we'll talk.

Posted by: berlins on December 28, 2005 at 4:00 PM | PERMALINK

The National Security Archive has a very good summary paper entitled "Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein: The US Tilts Towards Iraq, 1980-1984" (edited by Joyce Battle) which explains the extent and breadth of Reagan's support for the Hussein regime (including getting it loans and providing it diplomatic protection against international condemnation of its use of chemical weapons). It's also got the picture....

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:63kSj9ADCXAJ:www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/+saddam+reagan+bush+support&hl=en

Posted by: Stefan on December 28, 2005 at 4:05 PM | PERMALINK

Kryptik,

Do I nedd to show you the Russian made tanks and arms, the German ammunition and French and Russian war plane. The chemicals from Germany and the bunkers that Saddam used built by the Germans. The list is quite long. Would you like to see the many Democrat Administration misteps in the World areana. Lets do it.

Posted by: berlins on December 28, 2005 at 4:05 PM | PERMALINK

When you're ready to come up to speed in the current century let me know, then we'll talk.

I see you don't deny that you called the US a terrorist nation.

But I'm confused about your timeline: all the things you condemn Hussein for doing were done in the last century as well, not the current one.

Posted by: Stefan on December 28, 2005 at 4:06 PM | PERMALINK

"When you're ready to come up to speed in the current century let me know, then we'll talk.
--berlins

Oh, let me guess - everything changed after 9-11, right? Don't be so incredibly naive.

Some call it karma - the fact that bad things happen when you do bad things. Christians say that "you reap what you sow". Chalmers Johnson calls it "blowback" and this is more to the point of this discussion. All the misdeeds of the American government, most notably those committed by the DIA and CIA during the last century, are coming back to haunt us now. Osama bin Laden was on the CIA payroll, for God's sake. By continuing to support Israel and it's state-sponsored terror activities against Palestinians and Lebanese and allowing Israel to stockpile WMD, we have turned a generation of Muslims against us. Saddam is also a monster of our own creation, as the U.S. supplied him with massive amounts of conventional arms and dual-use materiel for chemical and nuclear weapons.

No, my friend, the world did not change after 9-11. The bill just came due.

Posted by: Stephen Kriz on December 28, 2005 at 4:13 PM | PERMALINK

Mike K on December 28, 2005 at 3:12 PM:

What do you make of the Tribune deciding Bush didn't lie us into war?

What do you make of the following sections of the editorial you linked to?

--snip---

Biological and chemical weapons

WHAT THE WHITE HOUSE SAID

The Bush administration said Iraq had stockpiled weapons of mass destruction. Officials trumpeted reports from U.S. and foreign spy agencies, including an October 2002 CIA assessment: "Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons, as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions."

WHAT WE KNOW TODAY

Many, although not all, of the Bush administration's assertions about weapons of mass destruction have proven flat-out wrong. What illicit weaponry searchers uncovered didn't begin to square with the magnitude of the toxic armory U.S. officials had described before the war.

THE VERDICT

There was no need for the administration to rely on risky intelligence to chronicle many of Iraq's other sins. In putting so much emphasis on illicit weaponry, the White House advanced its most provocative, least verifiable case for war when others would have sufficed.

Iraq and Al Qaeda

WHAT THE WHITE HOUSE SAID

President Bush: "... Iraq and the Al Qaeda terrorist network share a common enemy--the United States of America. We know that Iraq and Al Qaeda have had high-level contacts that go back a decade.... Iraq has trained Al Qaeda members in bombmaking and poisons and deadly gases."

WHAT WE KNOW TODAY

Two government investigative reports indicate that Al Qaeda and Iraq had long-running if sporadic contacts. Several of the prewar intel conclusions likely are true. But the high-ranking Al Qaeda detainee who said Iraq trained Al Qaeda in bombmaking, poisons and gases later recanted.

THE VERDICT

No compelling evidence ties Iraq to Sept. 11, 2001, as the White House implied. Nor is there proof linking Al Qaeda in a significant way to the final years of Hussein's regime. By stripping its rhetoric of the ambiguity present in the intel data, the White House exaggerated this argument for war.

--unsnip--

Did you even read the article, or did you just hear the summary Limbaugh spoon-fed to you?

Posted by: grape_crush on December 28, 2005 at 4:27 PM | PERMALINK

"What do you make of the Tribune deciding Bush didn't lie us into war ?

Posted by: Mike K on December 28, 2005 at 3:12 PM "


Does anybody even PRETEND they aren't diverting people to their stupid talking points anymore?

1) No one cares about that one stupid editorial in the Tribune, except for a couple trolls, and maybe the Tribune. MAYBE.

2) It's been taken completely and totally out of context close to a zillion times, and then put back into context by normal people a half a zillion times, where it becomes much less interesting, and much more like every other wishy-washy "good war, bad job" mainstream analysis of the war.

3) It's not related to DHS. Although at this point, we might as well just have DHS start invading various sandy, faraway countries, since they have a hundred gabillion employees, a gigantic budget, and (apparently) nothing better to do.

Posted by: nate on December 28, 2005 at 4:40 PM | PERMALINK

The Administration keeps saying it cares so much about protecting American, and the Dems/Libs don't, but: They and theirs don't really do enough to protect us or bungle a lot of what they do, they don't ask for any sacrifices (from their own base at least), they divert precious resources from the legitimate theater of action (Afghanistan) into another region which causes huge expenses that could have been used for real defense, that project isn't working out very well anyway (look at the vote protests, and I heard on Rawstory (?) that Kurdish forces are thinking of bucking from the "Iraqi" army and occupying Kirkuk for themselves), their chickenhawks aren't willing to fight (and their chickensquawk bloggers aren't willing to take comments), and so on. Then they pick on their critics. What hypocrites, what failures, what a true danger to America.

Posted by: Neil' on December 28, 2005 at 5:06 PM | PERMALINK

Mike K: What do you make of the Tribune deciding Bush didn't lie us into war ?

I make of it what I always make of the Tribune editorial board's death grip on its own preconceived notions, even after the same have been thoroughly discredited. These guys have the analytical skills of a third-grader, and they never admit they were wrong.

Did you enjoy the Jim Ryan endorsement ("We may have said he was unfit for any public office, but that was before he was running against a Democrat") as much as you're enjoying this crap? Now get back to your barstool; Walter's tired of waiting for you.

S Ra: Also, the name "Department of Homeland Security" is another thing that makes me wonder if I'm the only grown-up left in the room. "Homeland"? What is this, a country run by a 1930s demagogue?

Perhaps we should start calling her "Mother America." No doubt some idiot already has.

Hey, guys, I haven't been around much. Is this Tommy character for real?

Posted by: shortstop on December 28, 2005 at 5:19 PM | PERMALINK

Mr. Kriz, Stefan et all.

So, America is the source of all evil and the bill has come due. That's nice. America is the great Satan. The great terrorist Nation. Please scream that to the roof tops as load as you can. Tell everyone you know. You will just look as ignorant as you sound.

It is pointless for me to try and explain to you the many ways in wchich you are wrong. I think it would be better to give you all the rope you want.

For the record though. America is the greatest nation the world has ever put forth. America is not a terrorist nation as you suggest. You know very little of Israel/Arab conflict or else you would know that Israel is the good guy. Saddam is not our creation he is the creaation of the Russians mostly and the Germans who supplied him with the vast majority of conventional arms and dual-use materiel for chemical and nuclear weapons not the US.

Stefan, I am curious are you an American citizen?

Posted by: berlins on December 28, 2005 at 5:33 PM | PERMALINK

berlins, I am curious, are you an addict?

You seem completely unable to give up your denial of the notion that the USA has in fact undertaken some reprehensible actions and given other human beings a number of legitimate causes for grievance.
One of the first steps to solving a problem like this is admitting that you have a problem.
Denial is of course, a classic symptom of addiction. (which is why I ask)


Posted by: kenga on December 28, 2005 at 5:56 PM | PERMALINK

berlins, what you wrote denying that the Reagan and Bush administration directly supported Saddam Hussein -- including financial support, military support both material and logistical, and even technical support for the development of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs -- is just plain false. False as in wrong. False as in incorrect. False as in a lie.

You are a liar, or an ignorant dupe, or both.

If you want to deny the consistent history by a series of US administrations since World War II (both Democratic and Republican, although in my opinion the Republicans have been significantly worse) of supporting both state and non-state terrorism around the world, then go ahead and wallow in your ignorance, or revel in your dishonesty, or both.

You are just another idiotic Bush-bootlicking clown come here to entertain us, like "conspiracy nut" and "rdw" and their ilk. But the lowbrow slapstick comedy is not so entertaining after about the fiftieth time somebody like you shows up to fall flat on his face over and over and over again, so you'll understand if all you get in response is bored and annoyed yawns.

Go on back to Rush Limbaugh's toilet bowl and gobble up some more turds.

Posted by: SecularAnimist on December 28, 2005 at 6:15 PM | PERMALINK

For starters, you could lay off the hyperbole.
Like for instance "America is the source of all evil and the bill has come due."
Where did you go to find that gem?
Admittedly, funding and supporting Osama bin Laden may have been evil.

Posted by: kenga on December 28, 2005 at 6:17 PM | PERMALINK

berlins on December 28, 2005 at 5:33 PM:

So, America is the source of all evil and the bill has come due.

You are intentionally misconstruing prior statements for dramatic effect. Stefan was pointing out hypocrisy of your earlier statement and Kriz's larger point is that a few decades worth of questionable foreign policy has landed the US in a pickle.

Stop being a drama queen.

It is pointless for me to try and explain to you the many ways in which you are wrong.

Give it a shot; it would be interesting to see your perspective. But don't expect everyone to blindly agree with you.

I think it would be better to give you all the rope you want.

Again with the drama.

For the record though. America is the greatest nation the world has ever put forth.

Agreed.

America is not a terrorist nation as you suggest.

I don't think that is what was suggested. Stefan was using your own logic against you.

You know very little of Israel/Arab conflict or else you would know that Israel is the good guy.

Yet even 'good guys' like America and Israel have done some nasty things, no? Nasty things like torture, which should not be a characteristic of 'the greatest nation the world has ever put forth', riiight?

Saddam is not our creation...and nuclear weapons not the US.

Not wholly a creation of the US...The US did at least act as an enabler, supplying Saddam with military materials. Once upon a time, Saddam was viewed by the US as a buffer between Iran and the rest of the Middle East.

(cue Rumsfeld/Hussein pic)...

Don't get me wrong; Saddam was/is an evil bastard and the only firm good outcome (so far) that I can see rising from the US invasion and occupation of Iraq is his removal from power.

Posted by: grape_crush on December 28, 2005 at 6:21 PM | PERMALINK

Kenga,

No, I am not an addict. thanks for your concern.
I don't deny the US has undertaken reprehensible actions. I just deny we are the evil in this world. No one and no country is perfect.
Tell us what you believe. Do you think America is to blame for all the worlds problems? Why should I march in lock step with you?
It is hard on a liberal blog like this to anwser all the crazy accusation and downright lies so I try and make my points. read my inital post at 3:24, I try to be resonable. What about you?


Posted by: berlins on December 28, 2005 at 6:32 PM | PERMALINK

when we encounter the demented, like berlins, it is silly to waste our time dealing with what of his piffle is direct lying, what is simple ignorance, and what is willful denial. They all contribute to the foolishness that he writes, and it's not really possible any longer, in the face of the continuing chatter of the propaganda robots, to distinguish one from the other.

what's sad is that someone as ill-informed as berlins is only too typically a bush voter: a surprising number of them really had no idea of reality, or what their candidate stood for.

we do know this, though: only children feel the necessity to chant "america is the greatest country on earth" in the face of any criticism. sadly, there doesn't appear to be any vehicle through which the berlins of the world will grow up.

as for the dhs, just to return to it: some of us (me, for instance), pointed out that a national security idea of joe liberman's probably sucked (we were right); the idea that you just rearrange a bunch of boxes on the org chart would make us more secure was deranged (we were right); and that it would tax the skills of a jack welch or a lou gerstner to coordinate this monster in its early years (we were right).

We were also right that the only reasons the bush administration cared about the dhs were: colleen rowley (had to get her off the front pages) and an opportunity to force the dems into an anti-dhs vote. They never for a second cared if the dhs would actually operate effectively, and it doesn't.

but the simpletons applaud the bush administration, and criticize those of us who were right about the dhs (oddly enough, many of us were also completey right about iraq, and the simpletons still praise bush).

how can a poor man stand such times and live?

Posted by: howard on December 28, 2005 at 6:38 PM | PERMALINK

i will give berlins this credit, though: he's a very droll humorist.

imagine, he thinks his 3:24 posting, which contains not a thought of originality or wisdom, and consists primarily of making excuses for incompetency and failure by the bush administration combined with hyper-generalized foolishness aimed at anyone who doesn't join in the propaganda robot chorus, as "reasonable."

tres amusing, my sweet....

Posted by: howard on December 28, 2005 at 6:40 PM | PERMALINK

"Would you like to see the many Democrat Administration misteps in the World areana."

What I, and I am sure others, would like to see is a simple sentence written in accurate English by "berlins". I know that the RNC has outsourced trolls to Lower Trolldovia, but for the love of God stop mangling my mother tongue. Stupid Bush-licking trolls is par for the course- illiterate foreign trolls is something up which I will not put.

Posted by: solar on December 28, 2005 at 6:46 PM | PERMALINK

Alittle touchy arn't we.

SecularAnimist,
Is that all you want to do is listen to a bunch of like minded opinion. I can't deny the US provide support to Iraq. that is a fact. I deny that Saddam is the creation of the US. I claim Russia, France and Germany provide substantially more support than the US did in the 80's.

Grape crush,

aw, what's the use I can't get my head out of Limbaughs toilet.

Posted by: berlins on December 28, 2005 at 6:51 PM | PERMALINK

howard for president!!

Posted by: berlins on December 28, 2005 at 6:56 PM | PERMALINK

Solar,

Sorry, I did not know spelling and grammer counted on blogs. I will try to me more carful in the future.

Is it more careful or carefuler I can never remember.

Posted by: berlins on December 28, 2005 at 7:03 PM | PERMALINK

like i say, he may not know much, he may be in willful denial, he may be a liar, but berlins is a droll feller....

Posted by: howard on December 28, 2005 at 7:13 PM | PERMALINK

berlins on December 28, 2005 at 6:51 PM:

Grape crush, aw, what's the use I can't get my head out of Limbaughs toilet.

Actually, that was Secular Animist's gross-out line, not mine. I would have been much, much worse if I wanted to...like the whole thing regarding spelling and grammar...they really don't count, unless you are questioning someone's intelligence or reading comprehension or the like. Then you'd better be fucking flawless...

So welcome to the WaMo political blog; Make your points, back 'em up with facts, be sincere, fair, honest, and enjoy the debate. If anyone kneejerks with a bit of name-calling (which I've been guilty of myself), blow it off...sticks and stones, you know...and keep plugging away at it.

Personally, I enjoy reading an opposing viewpoint that is well supported and doesn't read like an Ann Coulter knockoff. Humor is nice as well.

(Writing a Coulter parody, OTOH, is kinda fun...)

Posted by: grape_crush on December 28, 2005 at 7:38 PM | PERMALINK

Why can't you liberals understand the ill effects caused by government interference? We are witnessing on these threads the disaster wreaked by the goverment in pushing their No Troll Left Behind Act. It is failing as badly as the NCLB. No money for the truly "gifted troll".
Barely enough for the remedial English as a First language and spelling. Money for Logic 101 was jettisoned long ago.

berlins, it is just like AA. It is not your fault. Help is out there somewhere. Try Friends Hospital in Philly as rdw is currently undergoing therapy there. However, in the meantime, whenever you encounter a liberal site, just say no.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on December 28, 2005 at 7:45 PM | PERMALINK

berlins:

You might be surprised when I agree with your assertion that America is the greatest nation the world has ever seen. However, that doesn't mean it is without fault and above criticism. I am a Christian first and an American second. What we are doing in Iraq is not Christian. Therefore, I am compelled to speak out against it as forcefully as I can.

Have Democratic politicians done some nasty and evil things around the world? Absolutely. I grant them no amnesty from my scorn. As to the purity of Israel - don't kid yourself. One of history's many ironies is that a people who were almost victims of genocide are now committing it themselves. As to who armed Iraq, I strongly recommend reading The Spiders Web by Alan Friedman or Arming Iraq by Mark Pythian. The truth will make you free..

Stephen Kriz

Posted by: Stephen Kriz on December 28, 2005 at 10:36 PM | PERMALINK

The Canadian government had Paul Hellyer's momentous fixed idea (idee fixee) of one Armed Force ( no separate services) passed in the 60's ( Yes. The U.F.O. negotiator ). How well did it work ? FUBAR and SNAFU should about cover the popular sentiment. Maybe it served as the model for Homeland Security ( as a catchall agency you'd have to wonder if responsibility for sanitation was included )

Posted by: opit on December 28, 2005 at 10:52 PM | PERMALINK

humor, I hope:

Please help me. I feel strange about something and I need advice.

They tell me everything changed after 9/11, but my name is still Mark. This is embarassing and it's very awkward when I tell people.

OMG, did the government maybe change it and I didn't get the memo. What if, in some NSA database, my name was officially changed to Kurt or Lyle or Stefan or Dmitry or (heaven forbid) Susan? What am I to do. I could do a FOIA, but they probably wouldn't respond because (naturally) they wouldn't have any info. in their databases based on my old name.

What am I to do?


-- sleepless in a city which used to have another name

/hopefully humor


President "whatever his name is now" is evil.

Posted by: MarkH on December 28, 2005 at 11:15 PM | PERMALINK

"So if your lucky enough to get hit by terrorists the gov. is right there to help you If you get hit by a storm you are on your own"

You're lucky unless the terrorists strike San Francisco, and then Bill O'Reilly will donate money to Al Qaeda. In fact, he's planning to strap on a dyno-pac and climb to the top of Coit Tower. King Loufa will show them, he'll show everyone!

Posted by: Kenji on December 28, 2005 at 11:35 PM | PERMALINK

Geo-politics is not so simple. I got one for you. Its called tha Arab-Israeli Wars by Chiam Herzog. Genocide is not what I would call defending your right to exist. While the US was facilitating the arming of Iraq I concede again and again, Can't you see that it pales to the Russian and French contributaion. I have never seen a bar graph comparison but from that book you recommended it says
"1971-5 the Soviet Union was responsible for 97% of Iraq's weapons imports but this dropped to 55% 1981-5. (p.29)"
55% thats alot.

and look from the same book

"68 German companies were involved in Iraq's militarization program between 1982-1990. The German Co., Water Engineering Trading, sold Iraq 58 tons of precursor chemicals necessary for the production of Tabun and in 1986 exported machines to Falluja for the production of poisonous gas. The German Co, Pilot Plant, was responsible for the construction of Sammarra, one of the centers of Iraqs chemical weapons program, and 5 other chemical production facilities. (p.29-30)"

and again

"France was Iraq's 2nd largest supplier after the Soviet Union and leased Iraq Mirage and Mystere fighter aircraft, helicopters, armored vehicles, and tanks. France sold Iraq the Osirak reactor for Iraq's nuclear research program. Iraq was in debt to France 25 billion francs. (p. 28)"

That's kinda what I have been saying. Thanks for the reference.

Posted by: berlins on December 29, 2005 at 12:38 AM | PERMALINK

Stephen Kriz

"The policy of western countries to arm and support Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war and facilitate Iraq's massive rearmament program in the post-war years led to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and the subsequent gulf war. (p.291)"

I wonder if he thinks Saddam had a role to play in the wars and all? I admit though his conclusions have a lot of truth.

On the other hand The Spiders Web by Alan Friedman is provocative and less scholarly.

Posted by: berlins on December 29, 2005 at 1:00 AM | PERMALINK

Yeah, they are busy facing our biggest threats. Quakers. Scary scary people.

Posted by: gus on December 29, 2005 at 8:15 AM | PERMALINK

I seem to remember 90 days cruising in the Persian Gulf protecting Iraq's oil tankers from the Iranians. I didn't see a single Russian ship the whole time.

Posted by: gus on December 29, 2005 at 8:28 AM | PERMALINK

Hey gus -
Don't put down attempts to keep us safe by monitoring Quakers!
I mean, those folks are weird. More often than not, they don't even have a preacher.
People just stand up and say what's on their minds, "as the spirit moves them".
How can you be a Christian if someone isn't telling you what to believe and how to worship?

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