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Tilting at Windmills

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January 5, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

GEORGE ALLEN GETS A MONEYMAN....The Hotline reports that former RNC chair Ed Gillespie has signed on to be the treasurer of Sen. George Allen's political action committee. That's a big boost to Allen's 2008 presidential aspirations.

Kevin Drum 1:47 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (57)

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Allen is the candidate Democrats want. He's not that smart, not that articulate, and not that popular.

McCain is the problem. His halo is just too good.

Warner vs. Allen would be a gimme for the Democrats.

Posted by: Samuel Knight on January 5, 2006 at 1:55 PM | PERMALINK

John "Let US Eat Cake" McCain's water carrying for the Bushes can be easily and repeatedly demonstrated, with plenty of handy visual aids for reinforcement. No doubt The Joes are already arguing that it would be ungentlemanly to do so.

Posted by: shortstop on January 5, 2006 at 2:04 PM | PERMALINK

As a Virginia resident I'll say that he was an awesome Guv'na and I'll gladly vote for him for prezy.

Posted by: Lurker42 on January 5, 2006 at 2:06 PM | PERMALINK

McCain is the problem. His halo is just too good

    "I see no reason why students should not be exposed to all theories, recognizing that Darwin's theory's certainly one that is generally accepted in most of the scientific community. I think it's not inappropriate to say there are also people who believe this. Let the student decide."

    -McCain on "Intelligent Design"

yes, let the students decide. idiot.

Posted by: cleek on January 5, 2006 at 2:06 PM | PERMALINK

What a combo: Allen's an empty suit (look for a "Dubya" transmitter box underneath his suit back during the debates), and Gillespie's a slicked back snake oil salesman.

Posted by: Doofus on January 5, 2006 at 2:08 PM | PERMALINK

"yes, let the students decide. idiot."
Posted by: cleek

And so what is wrong with that? It's a question of faith. We all have to make our own decisions about religion. That includes students.

Posted by: Lurker42 on January 5, 2006 at 2:10 PM | PERMALINK

>And so what is wrong with that? It's a question of faith. We all have to make our own decisions about religion. That includes students.

In Sunday school, sure. In real school, no. Intelligent Design Creationism, or whatever the next iteration gets named, has no place in a science class. If the students or their families want to learn about psuedoscience, let them do it on their own time.

Posted by: MJ Memphis on January 5, 2006 at 2:17 PM | PERMALINK

We all have to make our own decisions about religion

But not in a science class because science is, by definition, not about faith. Which, IMHO, is what all the hubbub is about, bub.

Posted by: ChrisS on January 5, 2006 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

Chris and MJ

I agree. BUT (always a but) considering that niether view point can be proven then they are both taken on faith. That tells me that niether should be taught in school. (I AM of course playing devils advocate here)

Posted by: Lurker42 on January 5, 2006 at 2:34 PM | PERMALINK

It's a question of faith.

biology is not a question of faith.

Posted by: cleek on January 5, 2006 at 2:35 PM | PERMALINK

Face the facts, We do not know for sure, Teach that.

Posted by: scott on January 5, 2006 at 2:36 PM | PERMALINK

treasurer? isn't that a titular position?

Posted by: Jedmunds on January 5, 2006 at 2:38 PM | PERMALINK

"biology is not a question of faith"

No but the big bang is. How the planets formed is. How life began is.
The subject isn't just how WE got here but how did it ALL start.

Posted by: Lurker42 on January 5, 2006 at 2:40 PM | PERMALINK

Lurker:

"No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong." -Einstein

Anyone genuinely making the argument which you are presenting (that nothing should be taught without absolute proof) is tacitly arguing that nothing at all should ever be taught. Nothing can be proven absolutely. Even the most well-established scientific law is subject to disproof. However, this does not mean that all ideas should be given equal weight.

Evolutionary theory has been used productively for decades, has stood up to many challenges, and remains the best explanation for observed biological facts. Intelligent Design Creationism and its ilk have the same level of scientific validity as astrology, and students should no more be exposed to it because "some people believe it" than they should be taught astrology because some people believe that the horoscopes in the back of the newspaper will tell their future.

Posted by: MJ Memphis on January 5, 2006 at 2:45 PM | PERMALINK

"Face the facts, We do not know for sure, Teach that."

I would vote for that but there are many in the education world who can't bear to admit that they don't know things.

Posted by: Lurker42 on January 5, 2006 at 2:45 PM | PERMALINK

Allen's better than you think. I think he articulates the Republican message well on the stump.

I'm a Democrat, by the way.

Posted by: Buford P. Stinkleberry on January 5, 2006 at 2:46 PM | PERMALINK

The subject isn't just how WE got here but how did it ALL start.

but Darwin's theory of Evolution doesn't even pretend to address that question.

Posted by: Edo on January 5, 2006 at 2:46 PM | PERMALINK

Anyway, to get back on topic: Has there been any more word on Warner's potential presidential bid? And what is the latest list of presidential hopefuls? I heard our governor's name (Bredesen) on the list a while back, but haven't heard anything definite lately, other than from worthless Senate types like Biden.

Posted by: MJ Memphis on January 5, 2006 at 2:49 PM | PERMALINK

Yup, told you so, Allen is the annointed one by the powers that be in the Republican party. The fact that he's as dumb as a stump and inarticulate is not a problem for the Republicans. They pretty much embrace those characteristics as "virtues". You watch, that fake southern accent and inarticulate speechifying will be just as "regular guy" as W. The mighty Wurlitzer will be touting him as the next charisma laden, steely-eyed rocket man. He's W II.

P.S. He has a "southern" accent because he grew up in the south -- southern California. It's every bit as fake as W.

Posted by: J Bean on January 5, 2006 at 2:49 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe more people would search for the truth if they where taught that we just don't know.Faith just don't cut it,That is why you have to have Faith in God because reality just does not mix whith Bible thumpers ideas.

Posted by: scott on January 5, 2006 at 2:52 PM | PERMALINK

Lurker42, science is not about "proofs,"they are the goal of math and logic. What science is after is assertions which can be shown to be wrong. For instance, it is a scientic assertion to say that water is made of hydrogen and oxygen because there are ways to discover what water is made of, so the statement that it is made of H and O can be shown to be wrong: therefore the statement is falsifiable in principle. There is no way to falsify "Intelligent Design." The best you can do is laugh at it, or accept it "on faith."

Posted by: Ace Franze on January 5, 2006 at 2:59 PM | PERMALINK

I'm from Virginia, too, and lived here while Allen was governer. Democrats across the country should pray that he gets the GOP nomination. He's almost as good for the Democrats as 'DeLay for President' or 'Pat Robertson for President.'

Posted by: Wally on January 5, 2006 at 3:01 PM | PERMALINK

No but the big bang is. How the planets formed is. How life began is.

sorry, i'm not going to chase you all over the map on this one.

Posted by: cleek on January 5, 2006 at 3:02 PM | PERMALINK

Allen might be the one GOP candidate who is actually a bigger dope than Bush. So, I'd say he has a pretty good shot.

Posted by: Ringo on January 5, 2006 at 3:05 PM | PERMALINK

Allen doesn't even have a southern accent as far as I can tell--he sounds more like an ex-football player who had one too many concussions.

Posted by: Ringo on January 5, 2006 at 3:07 PM | PERMALINK

He's not that smart, not that articulate, and not that popular.

In other words, he's got a great shot at winning.

Posted by: Alek Hidell on January 5, 2006 at 3:15 PM | PERMALINK

Ringo: Allen doesn't even have a southern accent as far as I can tell--he sounds more like an ex-football player who had one too many concussions.

Or, as LBJ said about Jerry Ford, "His problem is he played too much football without his helmet on."

Posted by: shortstop on January 5, 2006 at 3:25 PM | PERMALINK

>In other words, he's got a great shot at winning.

Allen/Keyes '08!

Posted by: MJ Memphis on January 5, 2006 at 3:35 PM | PERMALINK
The subject isn't just how WE got here but how did it ALL start.

As long as we teach that Gaia is as equally probable a creator as the Christian sky god.

Posted by: SavageView on January 5, 2006 at 3:49 PM | PERMALINK

lurker42, just how did god create the world?

yeah, i gotta agree that samuel knight's description of allen is a bit too familiar.

allen/keyes "08 -- dumb and dumber II

Posted by: mudwall jackson on January 5, 2006 at 3:53 PM | PERMALINK

gillespie & allen-dumb and dumb.


ot: sorry about last nite kevin. snicker, ehehe

Posted by: mestizo on January 5, 2006 at 3:54 PM | PERMALINK

Allen is definatley the guy we want to face.

Posted by: slm on January 5, 2006 at 3:55 PM | PERMALINK

So ex-Enron Official Liar is going to be the bag man for Allen?

Is that good news?

Am I missing something here?

Posted by: lib on January 5, 2006 at 4:01 PM | PERMALINK

mudwall jackson,

I was thinking they could steal Forrest Gump's slogan.

"Allen/Keyes- Stupid Is As Stupid Does"

Of course, the Democrats would have to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by nominating a Lieberman/Biden ticket.

Posted by: MJ Memphis on January 5, 2006 at 4:02 PM | PERMALINK

Being out here on the Left Coast, I've never heard Allen on the stump, but on the box (primarily with Timmy) he sounds inarticulate even on the talking points.

Can't really see what's to like about him, tho it certainly is conventional wisdom that he'd be an impressive candidate. (See recent Newsweek article about "The Virginians" touting both Allen and Mark Warner.)

Posted by: Cal Gal on January 5, 2006 at 4:10 PM | PERMALINK

Allen is always making cracks that betray his phychological fear of not having a big dick. He should do well with the Republicans.

Posted by: horatio on January 5, 2006 at 4:55 PM | PERMALINK

Whenever I see Allen I just automatically think of the Steinbeck novel "Of Mice and Men".

I wonder why that is.

Posted by: Vinnie on January 5, 2006 at 5:22 PM | PERMALINK

Let me be the zillionth person to observe that the American people do not have a track record of picking the perceived "smarter" candidate. Perceptions aren't necessarily reality (Eisenhower was a whole lot swifter than he was given credit for), but consider:

Stevenson v. Eisenhower
Carter v. Reagan
Mondale v. Reagan
Gore v. Bush II
Kerry v. Bush II

The only possible exception I can think of is Clinton vs. Bush I.

There was some good discussion of this back in '04 at Yglesias (http://yglesias.typepad.com/matthew/2004/08/the_brains_thin.html)

Posted by: bcamarda on January 5, 2006 at 5:47 PM | PERMALINK

Let me be the zillionth person to observe that the American people do not have a track record of picking the perceived "smarter" candidate.

See my comment at 3:05

Posted by: Ringo on January 5, 2006 at 5:58 PM | PERMALINK

What bcmarda said. Just because he is stupid and inarticulate it doesn't mean that some Atwater/Rove accolyte can't put him over the top. He may be a very fine campaigner, but he's got as much potential to be a good POTUS as W had. He's another venal, stupid, neo-con. We'd be better off if the Republican candidate was competent. That way, if he wins, we might have some hope as a nation. I'd rather see Chuck Hagel or McCain as the candidate even though hell would freeze over before I would vote for either one -- or any Republican for that matter.

Posted by: J Bean on January 5, 2006 at 6:13 PM | PERMALINK

Yup, you snuck in ahead of me on that .

But to hopefully add a little value to the discussion, I think Clinton proves the rule, by being the rare "smart" candidate who knew instinctively how to make anyone comfortable. Because what voters hate about smart candidates isn't intelligence: it's that off-putting sense of superiority most of them exude.

Resisting that is human nature. It's a huge reason Gore and Kerry lost, and it's a good test for who we ought to rule out in '08.

(No, I don't have names in mind. And, yes, to me personally, Bush carries himself with that same sense of superiority, albeit undeserved. But somehow he's better at hiding it most of the time, underneath that aw-shucks brush-clearing baloney. And the media has kindly minimized the number of times they play those clips...)

Posted by: Bill Camarda on January 5, 2006 at 6:20 PM | PERMALINK

The only possible exception I can think of is Clinton vs. Bush.

Well, there's Clinton vs. Dole and Carter vs. Ford, for starters. LBJ vs. Goldwater was, I guess, more a case of loud vs. crazy, and as for Nixon vs. Humphrey, who knows?

Anyway, I think you're right in the aggregate. Gore and Kerry never struck me as acting superior, just clumsy and wooden, but it's clear that a whole lot of people read them differently than I did.

Posted by: shortstop on January 5, 2006 at 7:01 PM | PERMALINK

Personally, I'm hoping for a Clark/Bredesen ticket. I really miss being able to drive over the Mississippi River bridge and see the "Welcome to Arkansas- Home of the President" sign, then drive back and see "Welcome to Tennessee- Home of the Vice-President".

Posted by: MJ Memphis on January 5, 2006 at 7:43 PM | PERMALINK

He's not that smart, not that articulate, and not that popular.

In other words, he's got a great shot at winning. - Alek Hidell

If he's a Bush, sure. But this guy isn't name brand, and I'm surprised the chinless wonder signed on to be his money man.

Gore and Kerry never struck me as acting superior, just clumsy and wooden, but it's clear that a whole lot of people read them differently than I did. - shortstop

Gore = clumsy and wooden.
Kerry = weak, capitualting, republican lite.

Don't get me wrong, I voted for Kerry - but I showered after I did.

Posted by: Eric Paulsen on January 5, 2006 at 7:51 PM | PERMALINK

Carter vs. Ford: that's a good counterexample, shortstop -- hadn't thought of that one. Not sure if Dole's issue was intelligence or maybe nastiness...

Posted by: Bill Camarda on January 5, 2006 at 8:00 PM | PERMALINK

I really miss being able to drive over the Mississippi River bridge and see the "Welcome to Arkansas- Home of the President" sign, then drive back and see "Welcome to Tennessee- Home of the Vice-President".

Eating good 'cue as you drove, perhaps! Ah, the memories!

Kerry = weak, capitualting, republican lite.

You're right, of course, Eric. And the idiot thinks he can go for round two. Really, these people need to get out of their personal circle of yes-men once in a while.

Posted by: shortstop on January 5, 2006 at 8:06 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop- Honestly, I prefer the spicier 'cue I got back in Alabama, but Memphis 'cue ain't bad at all. There is a little place near me with the rather plain name of "The Bar-B-Q Shop" that has ribs to die for.

I did make sure to drive over that bridge and back shortly after the election, just to enjoy the last time. I had a feeling it was going to be a long few years, and damn is that the truth.

PS- Bredesen is one of the best chances for Northern Dems to get one of their own into the White House, albeit covertly. He's from upstate New York, BS from Harvard (in physics!)... and still was elected mayor in the red city of Nashville (twice) and governor in the red state of TN, in a bad year nationally for Dems, and is a heavy favorite to be reelected this year. Who says Southerners will only vote for Southerners?

Posted by: MJ Memphis on January 5, 2006 at 9:05 PM | PERMALINK

As a Virginia resident, I can confirm this individual is a turd.

Posted by: Dot Connector on January 5, 2006 at 9:17 PM | PERMALINK

as a former virginian resident, allen is dumber than dirt...he has a lot in common with gwb...both are great puppets.

Posted by: s.car. belle on January 5, 2006 at 9:33 PM | PERMALINK

Well, I'm rather fond of the pit 'cue from western Tennessee and western Kentucky, MJ, although I like other kinds as well (except for Texas beef 'cue, which just doesn't come off). Actually, the best pulled-pork sandwich I ever had hailed from near Nashville: Herbert's B-B-Q in Franklin.

Posted by: shortstop on January 5, 2006 at 10:26 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop- my best bbq experience came back in college, at a little hole-in-the-wall place outside Tuscaloosa, AL. The place is called Archibald's, looked family-run. They make wonderful ribs in a thin, spicy sauce. You just have to hope you don't get there right after one of the Mercedes people does- they will order a dozen racks of ribs and keep the one guy in the pit busy.

Posted by: MJ Memphis on January 5, 2006 at 10:50 PM | PERMALINK

Hmmmm, how long ago were you in college, MJ? Because I have friends in Tuscaloosa who could be persuaded to take me to Archibald's if it still exists...

ah, the holy trail to the holy grail of perfect 'cue...

Posted by: shortstop on January 5, 2006 at 11:42 PM | PERMALINK

Graduated in '00. I couldn't tell you how to get there, but your friends will probably know. Here is a mention I just found:

http://meatn3.blogsome.com/2005/02/20/archibalds/

Posted by: MJ Memphis on January 5, 2006 at 11:55 PM | PERMALINK

Although I note on that post they don't mention the ribs- I assume they are still served. Unlike the commenter there, I'd take the ribs I got at Archibald's over Dreamland ribs anyday.

Posted by: MJ Memphis on January 5, 2006 at 11:57 PM | PERMALINK

Oh, and before I sign off for the night- if you do drop into T-town, there is a very nice little Thai restuarant on the Strip. I think Siam House? It was my first intro to Thai food, and I still remember the Kung Prikpao. So if you need a break after sampling all the local ribs, it is a good place to stop by.

Posted by: MJ Memphis on January 6, 2006 at 12:05 AM | PERMALINK

Thanks for all the eats advice, MJ. Thai food, mmmmmmm.

Posted by: shortstop on January 6, 2006 at 9:53 AM | PERMALINK




 

 

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