Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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January 12, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

MORNING CRANKINESS....Things that bug me:

  • "Link rich" commentary. This code word usually indicates that instead of taking the trouble to write a persuasive and coherent post, the author has simply done a search of Google News and linked to everything he could find.

  • Full page ads covering up entire sites. The New York Times has long done this for individual articles, and now Slate and the Los Angeles Times are doing this on their home pages. Before long, the only paper I'm going to read will be the Washington Post, and this decision will have nothing to do with the quality of their journalism.

  • Daily updates from bloggers who think I need an email reminding me of every post they write. I don't. Just knock it off, OK?

  • Bloggers who continue to blog about New York Times op-eds available only via TimesSelect. If you really want the Times to realize how pissed off you are about TimesSelect, then quit linking to them.

That is all. Normal non-cranky blogging will resume shortly.

Kevin Drum 11:49 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (71)

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Comments

Have some coffee, Mr. Grouchypants!

Posted by: shortstop on January 12, 2006 at 11:51 AM | PERMALINK

Current CNN poll

Are Democrats being too tough on Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito?

Yes 41%
No 59%

Why do 41% of Americans hate America?

Posted by: Matt on January 12, 2006 at 11:53 AM | PERMALINK

Thanks for venting about the Slate (and I guess LATimes) pracitce...its been annoying me to no end...

Posted by: LisainVan on January 12, 2006 at 11:55 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin's metamorphosis into Andy Rooney is now 62% complete.

Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft on January 12, 2006 at 11:56 AM | PERMALINK

I really wish Alec Baldwin were on the Senate Judiciary Committee so he could grill Alito in the same language from Glengarry Glen Ross:

"You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you cocksucker? You can't take this, how can you take the abuse you get on a sit? You don't like it, leave."

Posted by: Matt on January 12, 2006 at 11:59 AM | PERMALINK

Dear Barista, Retail Clerk, Bank Teller, Waiter...

I don't care about your weekend, your day, your life. Don't ask me about mine. Just provide me the service your employer is paying you to do for me in professional, efficient and accurate way. I'm not your buddy, your friend, or your confidante. I'm a customer who wants to get this transaction done and be on my way.

By the way --- Have a nice day.

Posted by: Robert on January 12, 2006 at 11:59 AM | PERMALINK

Full page ads covering up entire sites.

I do not see how that is much different than print. With newspapers you have to read articles that are broken up with advertising.

Posted by: Powerpuff on January 12, 2006 at 12:00 PM | PERMALINK

I really wish Alec Baldwin were on the Senate Judiciary Committee so he could grill Alito in the same language from Glengarry Glen Ross:

Agreed, if it were Liev Schreiber. He was a way better Ricky Roma.

Posted by: shortstop on January 12, 2006 at 12:02 PM | PERMALINK

Regarding the NY Times thing, I disagree. I don't blog to promote or demote newspapers -- I blog to inform my readers. If there is something of value to them in NY Times Select I will talk about it becuase it may be the only place they will get it thanks to the NY Times putting their content behind a subscription.

Second, why is it so bad that we should have to pay to read the New York Times? Until maybe 10 or 15 years ago the only ways to read a newspaper for free were to steal it, find it on a bus or visit a library. Now we think we should get all their content for nothing? Because of the Internet?

Should we also stop writing about Roll Call? Or Hotline? How about polls that have most of their data for pay?

We should be thankful that most of the NY Times is still free for us, and not whine about having to pay far less than a print subscription to have access to the entire paper.

Posted by: Poppy McCool on January 12, 2006 at 12:07 PM | PERMALINK

I also think it is sketchy to link to your own blog in comments.

Posted by: Ruck on January 12, 2006 at 12:10 PM | PERMALINK

Full page ads covering up entire sites.

I don't mind this at all. I always have more than one browser window open and if an ad appears like the ones on New York Times and Slate, I just go back to the other window, and when I return to the New York Times or Slate (or Salon) the ad is over.

Bloggers who continue to blog about New York Times op-eds available only via TimesSelect. If you really want the Times to realize how pissed off you are about TimesSelect, then quit linking to them.

Your crawl on the left side of the page includes articles from the Atlantic, which are only available to paying subscribers.

Posted by: Cryptic Ned on January 12, 2006 at 12:19 PM | PERMALINK

Re: "Link rich" commentary- Hear MFin' hear.

Posted by: Ted Barlow on January 12, 2006 at 12:23 PM | PERMALINK

"Link rich" commentary, I hate that, too.

Heh. Indeed.

Posted by: Genn R. on January 12, 2006 at 12:29 PM | PERMALINK

I really don't get people whining about TimesSelect or ads popping up when you access sites. How the hell are the people who work to create the content you want for free - or without ads you actually have to look at - going to get paid. It's like complaining about your cable bill or ads on ABC. I subscribed to TimeSelect for less than the cost of most magazine subscriptions because - as critical as I am of many aspects of the Times - it's an indispensible news organization and I feel like I should support their business model. That I have to pay for access to their non-news featurees - plus 100 archived articles a month, which is a great and very useful deal, especially for a blogger (I'm not) or attempts to follow politics more than superficially (I do), is a fact of life I resent no more than than not being able to swipe a copy of the paper off of a newstand without paying a buck. Meanwhile, their news is still free - which is more than the webwhiners deserve. Grow the fuck up.

Posted by: brucds on January 12, 2006 at 12:34 PM | PERMALINK

Incidentally, this line of argument reminds me of the teenagers who are pissed off because iTunes cost's 99 cents a song, when they used to just be able to fileshare. Teenagers is the operative word here...

Posted by: brucds on January 12, 2006 at 12:36 PM | PERMALINK
I also think it is sketchy to link to your own blog in comments.

Why? I think, if a full, extended argument or relevant commentary has been made elsewhere, by the commentor or anyone else, providing a summary and a link rather than reproducing the entire argument is desirable.

Posted by: cmdicely on January 12, 2006 at 12:37 PM | PERMALINK

For typical newspapers the print subscription fee barely covers distribution costs. Advertising supplies the bulk of the income.

I don't know the details of the online newspaper economy -- but it seems to me that one either has to have subscription fees or annoying advertising. Is the argument that the NYT is just too greedy?

Personally I think opinion is cheap. I will gladly do without a single set of pundits from one newspaper (especially if it includes that doofus booboo who opines about how red staters eat bacon and eggs and blue staters eat granola). If the NYT fired a couple of reporters of my choosing and then asked for a subscription for news, I'd probably pay it.

Posted by: B on January 12, 2006 at 12:37 PM | PERMALINK

Oh. My. God.
-Atrios 9:30 AM

Comments(200)

I can't believe this! What assholes!
jeff | Email | Homepage | 01.12.06 - 11:27 am | #
Linky no worky
jim | 01.12.06 - 11:27 am | #
A Preznit could be impeached for this!
Pete | Email | Homepage | 01.12.06 - 11:27 am | #
What is everyone talking about?
Bob | Email | Homepage | 01.12.06 - 11:27 am | #

Posted by: MillionthMonkey on January 12, 2006 at 12:42 PM | PERMALINK

I also think it is sketchy to link to your own blog in comments.

Providing a single link that is relevant to the topic under discussion is just fine. In fact, it's one of the things that makes the Web so great. Repeatedly linking to your own blog on off-topic items? Now that's more than just sketchy.

Posted by: Edo on January 12, 2006 at 12:43 PM | PERMALINK

"Your crawl on the left side of the page includes articles from the Atlantic, which are only available to paying subscribers."

Well, unless you crack the code to get the "subscriber only" articles. They are not protected very well. =)

Posted by: MJ Memphis on January 12, 2006 at 12:44 PM | PERMALINK

If the NYT fired a couple of reporters of my choosing and then asked for a subscription for news, I'd probably pay it.

Now that's a great idea!

Posted by: Edo on January 12, 2006 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINK

When I see the phrase "rich, bloggy goodness," it makes me want to gouge my eyes out.

Posted by: Jon on January 12, 2006 at 12:54 PM | PERMALINK

You know what I hate?

Big name bloggers who sit around and whine about their own niggling little....

Oh, never mind.

Posted by: Quaker in a Basement on January 12, 2006 at 12:57 PM | PERMALINK

MillionthMonkey: Now THAT's comedy :D

Posted by: snarktini on January 12, 2006 at 1:00 PM | PERMALINK

I love this. I think all the commentators here should weigh in on blog-related things that piss them off. Here's my two cents: bloggers who equate themselves with journalists. How's that ya bastards?

I do have a legitimate question for you guys though. I have access to the NY Times Select articles thanks to my access to Westlaw. If I see something really useful, is it wrong for me to post extended bits of an op-ed? I know if I post to the link people who aren't subscribers to NYT select won't be able to read the article, but this way they're allowed to read something I think is worth reading, and I'm not really paying the NYT for the access anyway. Good, bad, ugly?

Posted by: Alexander Wolfe on January 12, 2006 at 1:00 PM | PERMALINK

While we're here, I just discovered it is now illegal to be annoying on the internet.

YOU ARE ALL ANNOYING CRIMINALS!!!

Posted by: cld on January 12, 2006 at 1:02 PM | PERMALINK

When Atrios or whoever else blogs about a Select article, I can always find it with Technorati. Not a big deal. Anyway, the title of the article is all I need; no point in posting the NYT link.

Posted by: Gary Sugar on January 12, 2006 at 1:04 PM | PERMALINK

What the WaPo misses in webpage ads they more than make up for in Newsweek. And not only the ads, but sometimes just the graphics that accompany a story can take two thirds of a page's real-estate.

Getting less and less of my money's worth every issue.

Posted by: wishIwuz2 on January 12, 2006 at 1:07 PM | PERMALINK

Alexander...with any luck, Sen. Schumer will raise this knotty issue in the Alito sessions. Certainly requires more firepower than a legal researcher or lowly blog slugs can muster.

Posted by: brucds on January 12, 2006 at 1:08 PM | PERMALINK

Agreed, if it were Liev Schreiber. He was a way better Ricky Roma.

Baldwin wasn't Ricky; he played a management character who wasn't in the play. A Ricky Roma motivational speech would just be a long string of profanities that ends with Alito's wallet going missing.

Posted by: Viserys on January 12, 2006 at 1:12 PM | PERMALINK

There's a truly excellent reason for bloggers NOT to link to Times Select articles.

Because I fucking won't be able to read it.

And I want it that way.

Posted by: frankly0 on January 12, 2006 at 1:14 PM | PERMALINK

MJ Memphis, what is the secret to reading the Atlantic without subscribing? Please inform.

Posted by: anon on January 12, 2006 at 1:17 PM | PERMALINK

Oh, evidently I should see the movie before running my big mouth, Viserys. I've only seen various stage productions, and I guess I assumed Baldwin would have been Roma. Since I can't stand Alec Baldwin, I critically reviewed his performance without having seen it.

Sorry for employing the argumentational techniques of our worst trolls!

A Ricky Roma motivational speech would just be a long string of profanities that ends with Alito's wallet going missing.

Something wrong with that? "Fuckety fuck fucking Republicans fuck fuck fucking fuck. Sign here. Don't look at your wife. Don't fucking look at her. Sign."

Posted by: shortstop on January 12, 2006 at 1:20 PM | PERMALINK

"MJ Memphis, what is the secret to reading the Atlantic without subscribing? Please inform."

Buy it at a news stand...or find a dentist who subscribes.

What the fuck it this ? My Space ????

Posted by: brucds on January 12, 2006 at 1:20 PM | PERMALINK

What I hate is when the jackass in the cube next to yours drones on and on about his divorce and the great times he had in college - "remember that time when we got arrested for stealing that beer and then got sodomized in jail. great times."

Posted by: Cube Rage on January 12, 2006 at 1:26 PM | PERMALINK

brucds' snarling is strangely endearing.

Posted by: shortstop on January 12, 2006 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

I don't mind if it's link-rich; I mind if it's content-poor. Millionth Monkey's parody of Duncan 'phoning it in' Black is dead-on.

Posted by: Tom Hilton on January 12, 2006 at 1:32 PM | PERMALINK

Well, if that fink of a guard hadn't told them that it was their Budweiser we stole.............

Posted by: stupid git on January 12, 2006 at 1:34 PM | PERMALINK

That is all. Normal non-cranky blogging will resume shortly.

Anyone else notice that Mr. Drum has an odd sense of "shortly". Its been nearly 2 hours, and he has put up exactly one short post about another blog.

Dang it. Now I'm getting cranky. Where is Cranky Observer when we need him?

Posted by: Edo on January 12, 2006 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

"brucds' snarling is strangely endearing."

You're goddam right it is...

Posted by: brucds on January 12, 2006 at 1:37 PM | PERMALINK

Cranky posts, what fun. Kevin, start a cranky psot string once a week and let us vent stuff.

My crank this week is the utterly useless Alito hearings where everyone pretends something important is going on when in reality its a big fraud. And Alito's wife crying, OMG!
Please, lets get back to NSA wiretaps, Abramoff, Iraq, Plame, Econ, the upcoming SOTU address.

One of the biggest stories not covered is double digit corp profits while joe sixpack and Merlot Mike sink deeper into debt with stagnat wages and high energy costs.

Come on, Kevin, your good at pulling out the important economic stuff. Lets see a nice pie chart.

Posted by: the fake Fake Al on January 12, 2006 at 1:46 PM | PERMALINK

I love the Penny-Arcade style. Tycho will write an enormous post and then pepper it with anywhere from 2-10 links. For some reason I really like it when someone says something like "getting pretty antsy" and then links each word in the phrase to a story that supports that view. I find it incredible witty.

I'm weird.

Posted by: MNPundit on January 12, 2006 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINK

go ahead start that government and corporate double
speak of a carnival barker
AND PISS OF ME

Posted by: piss off me on January 12, 2006 at 1:54 PM | PERMALINK

And we're not immune to "link-rich" posts in the comments section. Links are nice, but context & an actual point are nicer.

Posted by: chaunceyatrest on January 12, 2006 at 2:02 PM | PERMALINK

One of the biggest stories not covered is double digit corp profits while joe sixpack and Merlot Mike sink deeper into debt with stagnat wages and high energy costs. Posted by: the fake Fake Al on January 12, 2006 at 1:46 PM

Tell me about it. I just got the power bill for December and it was over $250!!! I keep the thermostat at 62 for most of the day, when I'm away. And when I'm home I only turn it up to 65!

And it wasn't that cold in Central Illinois during December. Heating costs are insane now!

Posted by: Dr. Morpheus on January 12, 2006 at 2:06 PM | PERMALINK
  • Just posting a list of complaints or idea fragments. If it's worth its own full post, do that; if not, move on.
Posted by: Aaron S. Veenstra on January 12, 2006 at 2:08 PM | PERMALINK

Indeed, however, please try to keep one's post under 5,000 words and after one has posted 28 times in 10 minutes, please take a break.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on January 12, 2006 at 2:20 PM | PERMALINK

"link-rich comments"

How about a corollary?

Blog entries which contain multiple hyperlinks to the same web page.

Sure there are a couple of reasons to do this, but aren't they all pretty lame? :^)

Posted by: JR on January 12, 2006 at 3:18 PM | PERMALINK

Okay, I haven't looked at the comments yet, so maybe this has been touched on already.

In any case, Kevin, very appropos of this post just last night I noticed an insidious new form of spammer here.

Unlike the Chinese character spam, the linkers to porn sites and bots of a similar ilk we've grown to tolerate who dump stuff on threads in the wee, this one has a personal touch:

I'm sure it's entirely scripted, but a "tim" and a "ziv" posted last night with links to pasted quotes from the comments. Or there will be a one-line non-sequitur: "Good post, mate. Check out this interesting blog" with the word interesting linked.

The giveaway is that in the first type, the quoted sentences are non-sequiturs, often truncated in the middle of words, taken from two different comments with no discernable rhyme or reason. They'll aso have links in random parts of the sentences.

Both types link to casino or online gambling sites.

I'd suggest to everyone seeing posts like these not to click on them.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on January 12, 2006 at 4:24 PM | PERMALINK

My personal beef: Top blogegrs linking largely to other top bloggers: Kevin linking to Jeralyn; Jeralyn linking to Matthew; Atrios linking to Eric Alterman, etc.

Posted by: Randy Paul on January 12, 2006 at 4:28 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop:

The movie version of Glengarry Glen Ross was fantastic (I haven't seen it staged). What an all-star cast: Jack Lemmon, Pacino, Ed Harris, Alan Arkin, Baldwin, Jonathan Pryce, oh fuck the guy from American Beauty ... Kevin Spacey!

Probably Lemmon's greatest screen role, or at least the capper to an underrated career. Sheldon "The Machine" Levine.

And Pacino was fuck-tastic as Ricky Roma.

"Your job is to *help* us -- not to *fuck* *us* *up*."

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on January 12, 2006 at 4:42 PM | PERMALINK

I read Slate via this text-only filter. Enjoy.

Posted by: Nic on January 12, 2006 at 4:56 PM | PERMALINK

I run the text-only browser Lynx.

What I lose in multimedia bells 'n' whistles I gain in total avoidance of ads :)

Luddites rule, Bill Gates drools.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on January 12, 2006 at 5:04 PM | PERMALINK

Unless we're talking about two different things, I strongly disagree with your position on "link rich commentary". One of the most significant differences I find between left and right bloggers, magazines, etc is the usage of "link rich" text.

Authors on the left tend to frequently write "link rich" commentary as a means of backing up their assertions and specifications of fact, whereas those on the right just throw their commentary out there as if it was gospel truth.

Ann Coulter's complete misrepresentations notwithstanding, if the right were forced to cite sources as often as the left voluntarily does so, there would be a lot less crap out there.

Posted by: Ulysses Berman on January 12, 2006 at 5:10 PM | PERMALINK

Ad server blocking is available in Firefox and Opera. For the record, I haven't blocked the blogads server, though I do shut off gif animation when reading blogs.

Posted by: Gary Sugar on January 12, 2006 at 5:13 PM | PERMALINK

Case in pont: "jenny," the last comment on the History Blogging thread.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on January 12, 2006 at 6:15 PM | PERMALINK

One thing that makes me cranky is so-called "liberal" magazines that promote killing helpless animals for fun.

Posted by: SecularAnimist on January 12, 2006 at 6:18 PM | PERMALINK

First, you all do realize that those full page ads have a "skip ad" option in the upper right hand corner?

Second, is there any code that allows web servers to deny service to freeloaders? I'd love to have the ability to send a blank page to people who run adblockers or text only browsers.

Posted by: Cal on January 12, 2006 at 6:52 PM | PERMALINK
Second, is there any code that allows web servers to deny service to freeloaders?

Since its dirt simple to "block" ads by downloading the content and just not displaying it on the screen, probably not.

Of course, you could embedded images of text into the ad and require entering that text into a text-box to proceed to the substantive content (similar to the distorted text to avoid robots in many registration systems), but that's a good way to cause more trouble for the people that do view the ads, so it will probably do more to hurt your ad revenue than to help it.

Posted by: cmdicely on January 12, 2006 at 7:00 PM | PERMALINK

Second, is there any code that allows web servers to deny service to freeloaders? I'd love to have the ability to send a blank page to people who run adblockers or text only browsers.

What's really needed is a way to prevent people from going to the bathroom during TV commercials. When they do that, they are stealing. Anyone who fails to watch every single commercial that comes on during a TV show they are watching is a thief.

Posted by: SecularAnimist on January 12, 2006 at 7:25 PM | PERMALINK

I'm not a big fan of those Chinese rape-porn spammers.

Posted by: Goran on January 12, 2006 at 7:26 PM | PERMALINK

"I'm not a big fan of those Chinese rape-porn spammers."

Goran, if you don't go view all the Chinese rape-porn ads on the sites you visit, that's like stealing. And the terrorists have won. Or something.

Posted by: MJ Memphis on January 12, 2006 at 8:06 PM | PERMALINK

Waaa.

Posted by: Anon. on January 12, 2006 at 11:15 PM | PERMALINK

Nobody visits Cranky ? Jewish lady.
I've had ads continue to block site content at times. Darn right I have adblock. The ones that aren't playing ignorant are still visible.

Posted by: opit on January 13, 2006 at 12:46 AM | PERMALINK

"Anyone who fails to watch every single commercial that comes on during a TV show they are watching is a thief."

Wrong. The TV show is broadcast. The viewer doesn't request the show from the network.

And there's no requirement to watch the advertisements in either format. The issue is removing or blocking them.

Posted by: Cal on January 13, 2006 at 1:24 AM | PERMALINK

Cal:

> "Anyone who fails to watch every single commercial that
> comes on during a TV show they are watching is a thief."

> Wrong.

You sure do have a poor sensor for sardonic mockery.

> The TV show is broadcast. The viewer
> doesn't request the show from the network.

But the advertiser, the network, the station all
operate under the assumption that a certain amount of
people will view those commercials and respond to them.

Taking your view of proprietary content in a free medium to
its extreme would indeed lead to the megalomaniacal complaint
that not every single person who could was watching your
goddamned revenue generator that SecularAnimist was satirizing.

> And there's no requirement to watch the advertisements
> in either format. The issue is removing or blocking them.

Hey asshole, I run a text-only browser. Riddle me this: With all
the lifetimes' worth of text available without having to watch
any stinking ads I don't choose to on the internet, why the *fuck*
would I *want* to read anything provided by a selfish douchebag
like yourself, huh? You think it's like some *skin off our noses*
that you find a way to exclude the more intelligent mass of web
surfers who have found easy ways to avoid putting up with bullshit?

This is a free site. Go find your suckers elsewhere, pal.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on January 13, 2006 at 2:39 AM | PERMALINK

Used to visit Slate once a day. Not anymore.
I suspect the full page ad brings in the additional revenue the loss of my click takes away.

Posted by: carsick on January 13, 2006 at 1:41 PM | PERMALINK

"But the advertiser, the network, the station all
operate under the assumption that a certain amount of people will view those commercials and respond to them."

Yes, I know. Nonetheless, they make the product available to everyone. My decision to watch the show doesn't create an incremental burden or cost for them.

This medium isn't free.

"why the *fuck* would I *want* to read anything provided by a selfish douchebag like yourself, huh? "

Yes, it's selfish to have a business. Oh, the humanity.

But in any event, it sounds like you agree with me. All I want is a programmatic way to determine who has text browsers or adblockers, and I can put up a sign for people like you "Sorry! You can't see my content. But don't worry, I'm a selfish douchebag and you wouldn't want to see my content anyway."

Posted by: Cal on January 13, 2006 at 5:27 PM | PERMALINK

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Posted by: johny on January 13, 2006 at 9:00 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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