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Tilting at Windmills

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January 21, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

WELCOME TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD....Remember "Welcome to the Neighborhood," the ABC reality series that was cancelled before it aired last year? It starred six couples African-American, Hispanic, Korean, tattooed, Wiccan, gay who competed to win a house in a neighborhood whose residents "overwhelmingly identified themselves as white, Christian and Republican."

The New York Times has a story today suggesting that the series was cancelled because Disney, ABC's parent, was worried about a backlash from conservative Christian groups whose support it wanted for the rollout of the Narnia film later in the year. It's worth clicking the link to read the whole story, but here's the part that's really worth reading. The winner, it turns out, was a gay couple, Stephen and John Wright:

The neighbor who was the Wrights' earliest on-camera antagonist Jim Stewart, 53, who is heard in an early episode saying, "I would not tolerate a homosexual couple moving into this neighborhood" has confided to the producers that the series changed him far more than even they were aware.

No one involved in the show, Mr. Stewart said, knew he had a 25-year-old gay son. Only after participating in the series, Mr. Stewart said, was he able to broach his son's sexuality with him for the first time.

"I'd say to ABC, 'Start showing this right now,' " Mr. Stewart said in an interview at his oak kitchen table. "It has a message that needs to be heard by everyone."

Damn. When I first heard about it, this show sounded like just another piece of crass reality TV Babbittry that I was just as happy we'd been spared seeing. But maybe I was wrong. It sounds like it might have been a worthwhile show after all.

And it makes me wonder: for all we hear about how the Christian right is practically a fourth branch of government these days, is it really true? Sure, it sounds like Disney may have buckled under to them in this case, but on the other hand it's inconceivable that "Welcome to the Neighborhood" could even have been produced as recently as 10 or 15 years ago. If the Christian right is really so all-powerful, how is it that they've lost so much ground in such a short time?

Kevin Drum 12:03 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (88)

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seems if i recall correctly, some christian groups some years ago threatened to boycott disney world because of "gay days" held at the theme park and i believe because the disney corporation provided health benefits to the partners of gay employees. disney's reaction then was a giant shrug.

Posted by: mudwall jackson on January 21, 2006 at 12:10 AM | PERMALINK

I just had this discussion with my wife--the Brokeback Mountain movie is #1 at the box office despite being in only 600 or so theaters. Americans are much more progressive and much more tolerant that the ravings of the Dobson' and Robertson' adherents would have you believe. We are under a cultural attack by a minority of about 10-percent.
The far right has used money and mirrors in an Oz-like kabuki media take-over. But America is still tolerant and kind in the main. Everyone deserves the freedom to be happy and freedom from bigotry. Then we'll talk taxes. A happy, confident and tolerant America is what OBL hates and fears most.

Posted by: Sparko on January 21, 2006 at 12:10 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin, this story was reported at AmericaBlog months ago!!

Posted by: Chris on January 21, 2006 at 12:12 AM | PERMALINK

Chris: Lots of stuff I write about was blogged at other places before. Besides, the NYT piece has some additional reporting that's new and interesting.

Posted by: Kevin Drum on January 21, 2006 at 12:18 AM | PERMALINK

With all due respect to Kevin (whom I read everyday), he seems prone to the same weeneeism afflicting the national press. That is: the same kind of knee-jerk contrarianism in opposition to the ideological lockstep he imagines us, uh, "lefties" possess.

We live in the same time space coordinate as you do Kevin. We realize that 15 years ago such a reality show would not have even been produced. We are also aware that the fact it hasn't been BROADCAST denotes the veto power the far right/religious right possesses--- all out of proportion to their actual demographic representation.

So spare me the bogus sobermindedness. We get enough moral narcissism from Joe "the human foreskin" Lieberman.

Posted by: Amur on January 21, 2006 at 12:18 AM | PERMALINK

Amur: Huh?

Posted by: Kevin Drum on January 21, 2006 at 12:19 AM | PERMALINK

It's not the subject matter that makes a crass show, it's the producers.

Spurlock did a reality show last summer that broached the subject of homophobia. I missed it but it got some good reviews.

http://www.tv.com/30-days/show/36402/episode_guide.html

Posted by: B on January 21, 2006 at 12:20 AM | PERMALINK


"story today suggesting that the series was cancelled because Disney, ABC's parent, was worried about a backlash from conservative Christian groups whose support it wanted for the rollout of the Narnia film later in the year."

That is nuts. The Christian Reicht was gonna wet itself at the thought of a C.S. Lewis book on the big screen, no matter what else the studio was doing.

Posted by: Ottnott on January 21, 2006 at 12:27 AM | PERMALINK

It's the final throes of the christian right.

Posted by: stmojo on January 21, 2006 at 12:39 AM | PERMALINK

According to the article, they weren't worried about Christian groups. They were worried about the PC crowd due to homophobic statements in the show.

Posted by: Adam Herman on January 21, 2006 at 12:42 AM | PERMALINK

It is one of the wonders of the present moment that despite everything fearful people can throw at us, acceptance of gays in society is still on the upswing. So much so, that I doubt that in 20 years gay marriage will be any kind of issue at all.

The speed is amazing. In 1989, 16 years ago, gays were unable to win domestic partner legislation by popular vote in San Francisco. Today pretty good DP legislation is the default fall back position of mainstream liberals.

I think it has happened in part because we, gays, are a good market for consumer goods -- and perhaps also because we, all of us, have created such a child-unfriendly society that the lives of folks who are not reproducing much look pretty good.

Posted by: janinsanfran on January 21, 2006 at 12:42 AM | PERMALINK

If the Christian right is really so all-powerful, how is it that they've lost so much ground in such a short time?

You know, one of the things that has impressed me beyond all measure is the speed with which being gay has come to be accepted as much as it has in American culture.

Yes, I know there are countless ways in which gays continue to be persecuted. But I must simply say that had I known, back in, say, 1970, that being gay could be as broadly accepted, and talked about as it is today, I simply would have been astonished. I would never have believed that it could have come into such a level of openness in our society.

All of which impresses on me how very artificial the intolerance of homosexuality really is, how little ingrained it is in human beings on any basic level. Truly, intolerance must be taught relentlessy and mercilessly to stick in the human psyche.

What the religious right correctly fears is that our culture has stopped the endless punishment of wrongdoers and wrongthinkers when it comes to homosexuality. That is why they must attack any element of our culture that seems to be backsliding on the point.

And they know that if they lose on the issue of tolerance of homosexuality, they lose everything; not one iota of their world view is left standing.

Posted by: frankly0 on January 21, 2006 at 12:52 AM | PERMALINK

A happy, confident and tolerant America is what OBL hates and fears most.
Posted by: Sparko on January 21, 2006 at 12:10 AM | PERMALINK

OBL and GWB are really just two sides of the same coin.

When I heard that Jacques Chirac last week threatened nuclear retaliation for terrorists, I wondered what would happen if the next Tim McVeigh were to do a truck bomb in "athiest socialist muslim-loving France" - would Jacques Chirac nuke us? And would he be justified in doing so?

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on January 21, 2006 at 12:56 AM | PERMALINK

think we all know who was responsible for that, the Godless liberals who cannot stand having their immorality shoved back in their ugly face!! The defenders of free thought, the Big Bang theory and evolution, are not only striking out at me, but at all Christians. . Last night, while I was sitting on my front-porch swing, gazing up at Heaven, President Bush appeared to me in a vision. He told me that my work was not yet finished, there were still many liberals who had not yet seen the glory of the coming of the Lord!!

President Bush would not be in the White House right now if God didn't want him there. President Bush was put in a position of leadership in order to wipe the devil's religion of Islam off the face of the Earth, so that the Christian God can fill the world with His message of peace and love. President Bush has stated numerous times that he speakes with God in the Oval Office, he even asked God for military advice before the invasion of Iraq. Modern liberalism is the equivalent of atheism, liberals are in favor of killing babies, raising taxes, teaching evolution, and same sex marriage. Jesus is opposed to all of these horrible things

Posted by: HITLER on January 21, 2006 at 12:59 AM | PERMALINK

The fX show coming in March, "Black and White", looks like it might be similarly interesting. From the cryptic but cool-morphing preview, it looks like two families disguise their races in a "Black Like Me" way and see how the world treats them.

Posted by: DonBoy on January 21, 2006 at 1:02 AM | PERMALINK

ever so optimistic kevin is looking at the drop of water left in the glass.

the right has won, and entrenched itself in the executive, judiciary, and the press, and has made the congress irrelevant.

just the fact that a stupid TV show in which gays are so prominent was produced, but never broadcast, is nothing to celebrate.

Posted by: nut on January 21, 2006 at 1:12 AM | PERMALINK

There was a good interview with show participants in The Advocate a few issues ago.

Posted by: NancyP on January 21, 2006 at 1:15 AM | PERMALINK

"A happy, confident and tolerant America is what OBL hates and fears most."

In truth, OBL doesn't give a rat's patoot what goes on in America. He wants every American's unholy feet off of the sacred soil of Islam. Do that and his war is over. He has said that from day one. It is only the non-listener who talks about the nonsense in parentheses and uses that crap to foster false patriotism. However, It must be noted that societies that became tolerant of homosexual lifestyles such as Sweden and the Netherlands have never risen to the world dominance they once knew and there is surely a lesson in there for Christian Right to stress.

Posted by: murmeister on January 21, 2006 at 1:22 AM | PERMALINK

Hmm...maybe it's because of where I work (housing-related field), but I was under the impression that the show was cancelled because of an outcry from fair housing advocates on the illegality of the show premise.

Boy, I sound naive don't I?

Posted by: Brian on January 21, 2006 at 1:25 AM | PERMALINK

JillinSanFran wrote:

"The speed is amazing. In 1989, 16 years ago, gays were unable to win domestic partner legislation by popular vote in San Francisco. Today pretty good DP legislation is the default fall back position of mainstream liberals."

Gotta be one of the fastest ground a liberation movement has made. Compare with women's sufferage or civil rights in the South. No wonder that clown Tom Corburn (R-OK)has said the gay agenda is the "biggest threat to our freedom"; the speed must have his head turned.

"I think it has happened in part because we, gays, are a good market for consumer goods -- and perhaps also because we, all of us, have created such a child-unfriendly society that the lives of folks who are not reproducing much look pretty good."

Don't know. Being a breeder in San Francisco. Our little kid is fawned over in restaurants or shops. Take the kid up to his cousins in the heavily Xtain-fundie foothills (cousins are non-fundie BTW) and nowhere near the same attention or consideration given to the kid.

Posted by: Urinated State of America on January 21, 2006 at 1:28 AM | PERMALINK

Murmeister:

er, what? you're making a connection between acceptance of homosexuality and the decline of world dominance of Sweden and the Netherlands? When, exactly, did Sweden dominate the world? and the Netherlands? anytime this century? what an absurd connection to make.

What's next, the Britsh Empire is going to collapse because of civil unions?

Posted by: northzax on January 21, 2006 at 1:31 AM | PERMALINK

This sounds conspiracy theory to me, but does the success of the Bush administration.

The Farce Report

Posted by: pseudosig on January 21, 2006 at 1:43 AM | PERMALINK

northzax: Actually, there was a time when each of them was the dominant force in the world. Second, you mostly need to read my entries with a sense of humour. Very seldom do I get too serious...a serious point surrounded by satire of my point I guess?

Posted by: murmeister on January 21, 2006 at 1:44 AM | PERMALINK

Seems to me like you're getting played, Kevin. Again . . .

Posted by: SqueakyRat on January 21, 2006 at 1:45 AM | PERMALINK

I am still seeking to destroy all copies of 'Threes Company'. Every perversion of the decadent liberal West is celebrated in that abomination.

Posted by: Ayatollah NoNameMe on January 21, 2006 at 2:15 AM | PERMALINK

The Christian right was never "all powerful", rather more of a squeaky wheel aided in relevant part by a lack of competition in the communications industry. Remember fifteen years ago we had only five widely available networks including PBS and an infant Fox, a handful of national magazines and newspapers, and no internet or email, so the Christian right (or any interest group including Tipper Gore's music censors) could more easily focus their efforts. Even then the late 70s saw Anita Bryant lose what was left of her career. Now what's in the new media often ripples out and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting portrayals if not outright celebrations of gay culture in the older media. If they've lost ground in the media anyways it's because an open competitive market has allowed more voices to be heard.

Posted by: scouser on January 21, 2006 at 2:32 AM | PERMALINK

Northzax: What's next, the Britsh Empire is going to collapse because of civil unions?

Regardless of whether or not Murmeister was serious, I have heard this argument seriously advanced by historically illiterate morons. "Every great society which has embraced homosexuality has collapsed - take the Roman Empire for example." Nevermind that this is patently ridiculous non-sequitur nonsense. It's like saying that America won the Revolutionary war because of Betsy Ross' sewing technique.

Posted by: DH Walker on January 21, 2006 at 2:40 AM | PERMALINK

Christian homophobia loses influence in inverse proportion to age. You could look it up in the polling results from the 2004 election. Young people grow up with friends out of the closet by their early teens nowadays and most of them understand homophobia for what it is: illogical fear and hatred.
And the Christian right knows it, which explains the increasingly hysterical approach they take to the culture wars they invented. They're a sick bunch and their numbers are inevitably going to dwindle.

Posted by: secularhuman on January 21, 2006 at 2:43 AM | PERMALINK

Gee, and here I was worried because they seemed to be gaining control all branches of government, plus most lobbying, grants from the US goverment, and the targets of a school voucher program that could shovel billions of dollars into their "ministries" if a few more Holy Joe's get into office.

Yes, even though we had to hold our breaths for a month to find out if a judge would put creationism on equal footing with evolution, I now feel I can relax, because Kevin Drum points out they could only prevent a show from being broadcast, but couldn't stop it from being filmed! The tide has turned!

Again - you internalie republican talking points, then get amazed when zthey turn out to be bullshit. Americans accept the gay. Too many friends and sons of friends have turned out to be gay, Will and Grace is often pretty funny and non-threatening, hot-girl-on-girl porn sites make compelling viewing, and besides, they do FABULOUS things with our wives' hair.

It is a significant sign of religious republican power that this is even an issue at all. Its a testament to the power of demogoguing, and the willingness of some to believe the enemies lies even when they hate them.

Posted by: Mysticdog on January 21, 2006 at 3:12 AM | PERMALINK

When, exactly, did Sweden dominate the world?

From about 793 AD to 1066 AD.

Then, Ford bought Volvo, and it's been downhill ever since.

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on January 21, 2006 at 3:26 AM | PERMALINK

When, exactly, did Sweden dominate the world?

From about 793 AD to 1066 AD.

Then, Ford bought Volvo, and it's been downhill ever since.

... oh yeah, and 1066 AD is the most commonly accepted date for the "end of the viking age". The battle of Stamford Bridge, but this was also, not coincidentally, about the time they converted from paganism to Christianity. . .

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on January 21, 2006 at 3:36 AM | PERMALINK

The Christian Right are politically organized, they're not socially organized. Hollywood necessarily has to appeal to society, not just the few who get it. Hollywood has a natural constituency the Christian Right can only dream of, that's why they want to destroy it.

Oh, and Sweden dominated the world for about 1 decade during the Thirty Year's War, hated it and went back to Sweden.

Posted by: cld on January 21, 2006 at 4:04 AM | PERMALINK

Why did Disney have to barter for Narnia support from xtians? It's a piece of xtian propaganda.

Don't get the set-up.

Posted by: cdj on January 21, 2006 at 4:08 AM | PERMALINK

Osama b. f., you're leaving out Gustavus Adolphus and Charles X. Sweden has an outstanding military history. They were an overpowering force in the Thirty Years War. Then they gave it up.

Clearly, it wasn't just the Lutheranism that got them out of the war game from then on. It's probably mainly due to the Baltic separating Scandinavia from the rest of Europe.

Posted by: bad Jim on January 21, 2006 at 4:30 AM | PERMALINK

Judge Alito's nomination is the proof of the power of the Christian right. This is the turf war they most care about and they are on the verge of success.

Are the Christian Conservatives really that powerful? Well as a matter of fact they are.

Posted by: Poncho & Lefty on January 21, 2006 at 4:38 AM | PERMALINK

Mysticdog: ...besides, they do FABULOUS things with our wives' hair.

LOL!

Posted by: Apollo 13 on January 21, 2006 at 6:08 AM | PERMALINK

How NAIVE is Kevin Drum...apparently EXTREMELY NAIVE.

You don't think this whole thing was a set-up..start to finish...you think these reality TV producers allow any reality into their shows?

The entire show is staged, faked, cut and recut to tell the story the producers want.

SO THE GUY JUST SO HAPPENS TO HAVE A GAY SON, AND HE ACTUALLY MAKES ANTI-GAY STATMENTS IN PUBLIC? AND WHAT EXACTLY COULD HE DO IF A GAY COUPL BOUGHT A HOUSE?? OR A COUPLE THAT HAS SEX WITH ANIMALS, OR A COUPLE OF CRACK WHORES?
NOTHING.

When is the left going to decide if media affects our behaviors or not?? Apparently when they like the behavior, they believe a show will affect people, when they don't like the behavior, they sy it will have no affecton people.

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 7:30 AM | PERMALINK

See, I think the Christian Right fights these things all wrong.....If DisnEy wants GAY DAYS, Christian activist should also have GOD DAYS AT DISNEY.

GOD DAYS AT DISNEY WOULD BE THOUSANDS OF EXTREMIST CHRISTIANS GOING TO THE PARK ON THE SAME DAY, PRAYING IN GROUPS AMONSGT THE CROWDS, ASKING PEOPLE IF THEY WANT TO BE BAPTIZED, ETC. ETC.
DOES ANYONE BELIEVE DISNEY WOULD BE JUST AS SUPPORTIVE OF GOD DAYS AS THEY ARE OF GAY DAYS??

WHAT WOULD THEY THINK IF THESE PEOPLE SHOWED UP WITH POSTERS SHOWING DEAD ABORTED BABIES AND SHOWED THEM TO PATRONS IN THE PARK? WOULD EVERYONE BE SCREAMING ABOUT THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS TO ENGAGE IN FREE SPEECH???

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 7:34 AM | PERMALINK

The mistake is in attributing the power to the Christian Right. Always follow the money. Even the most God-like have been known to stumble picking up loose change or better.

Posted by: raybear7 on January 21, 2006 at 8:35 AM | PERMALINK

"How is it that they've lost so much ground in such a short time?"

They have lost their vision. "Where there is no vision, the people perish."

Posted by: wolly jon on January 21, 2006 at 9:07 AM | PERMALINK

Maybe a whole lot of Americans find the Christian nutcases nutty, but a refreshing alternative to the PCs? Lesser of two evils? Or rather, the lesser of two humorless vacuums?

But that's not the whole story. Money has a lot to do with it

Posted by: PW on January 21, 2006 at 9:09 AM | PERMALINK

"You know, one of the things that has impressed me beyond all measure is the speed with which being gay has come to be accepted as much as it has in American culture.
Yes, I know there are countless ways in which gays continue to be persecuted. But I must simply say that had I known, back in, say, 1970, that being gay could be as broadly accepted, and talked about as it is today, I simply would have been astonished.
Posted by: frankly0 on January 21, 2006 at 12:52 AM |:"
Absolutely correct and then some; you left out the most telling data point: GWB is on record as favoring civil unions. Unimaginable in the 90s, not just the 70s, that the avatar of the right would say that. Of course, that's his defensive position against favoring gay MARRIAGE, but still. And other posters have been right in noting that it's because the acceptance -- and beyond "acceptance," the normalizing, of gays/lesbians -- is generational, and that the worst homophobes are dying off every day, that the Christianists are so inflamed (heh) over it; they know that part of their agenda is doomed.
However, frankly0 also said:
"And they know that if they lose on the issue of tolerance of homosexuality, they lose everything; not one iota of their world view is left standing."
I don't buy that at all. They're the same people who said there was biblical sanction for racism (and before that for slavery), and the loss of that peg didn't bring their whole structure down too well, did it now?
The next generation will just say their forebears misread their Bibles on the gay thing -- but everything else will continue apace, including Jesus' love of low taxes and a big military.

Posted by: smartalek on January 21, 2006 at 9:23 AM | PERMALINK

If the Christian right is really so all-powerful, how is it that they've lost so much ground in such a short time?

Well, America is two countries. There's the modern, relatively progressive and secular Northeast and West Coast. There's the Christofascist theocracy of the Old South. And they locked in a Cold Civil War. Sometimes we win a battle, sometimes they win.

Posted by: grytpype on January 21, 2006 at 9:23 AM | PERMALINK

The Christian Reicht was gonna wet itself at the thought of a C.S. Lewis book on the big screen, no matter what else the studio was doing.

Nah, the studio was deliberately pushing the Christian angle. Every article and every review mentioned it. But really the analogy was so weak you'd never notice it unless it was pointed out. I think it was deliberate marketing to the Jesus People.

Posted by: grytpype on January 21, 2006 at 9:26 AM | PERMALINK

murmeister,

Never should have dropped our "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy.

Posted by: Charles XII on January 21, 2006 at 9:40 AM | PERMALINK

Patton: Maybe this will help you and your father heal the breach.

Posted by: Pat on January 21, 2006 at 9:45 AM | PERMALINK

Gee, how about something different them the normal...'gays frighten/angry Christians routine' Kevin.

How about a SKINHEAD FAMILY gets a house on Castro Street in SF? Wouldn't see any angry gay protestors there ehhh?

Or a Klan family from West Virginia (Maybe Bob Byrds kin) get a house in Harlem?

BET THAT HOLLYWOOD ISN'T UP TO TACKLING THOSE SITUATIONS.. BUT BASHING CHRISTIANS, THATS RIGHT UP THEIR ALLEY.


and why all the puishing of a gay lifestyle when you won't push a tobacco lifestyle.

The life expectancy of a gay man is reduced further then that of a smoker or a cocaine user.
Yet we hear nothing of that fact that engaging in this lifestyle will shorten your life by 8 to 21 years.

Why so little concern for pushing a behavior that leads to early death??

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 10:09 AM | PERMALINK

Pat, Dads dead, has been since 1981 but it was nice of you to think of him.

Who's your dad? Or don't you know.

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 10:11 AM | PERMALINK

1981, huh? Condolences. Suicide is always so pointless.

Posted by: Pat on January 21, 2006 at 10:22 AM | PERMALINK

DISNEY CO. Is a whore

Posted by: richardleewendling on January 21, 2006 at 10:51 AM | PERMALINK

Yes, Pat...Dad shot himself three times in the chest. Funny at the time he was in uniform and working.

Don't knock suicide Pat, it's something you may want to consider, given the other failures in your life...I think it is something you could accomplish if you really apply yourself this time.
You don't always have to be a quiter.

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 10:55 AM | PERMALINK

It was a game show wrapped in a reality show, and subject to network standards and practices rules dating back to the "Quiz Show" era. The outcomes cannot be predetermined without many people keeping their mouths shut. That's not likely to happen in Hollywood, so the results must be on the up-and-up.

The show itself was designed to explore how proximity and interaction promote tolerance. I hope that Patton's gay neighbors give him a hug today.

Posted by: Jim 7 on January 21, 2006 at 11:20 AM | PERMALINK

Jim I'm PATTON'S neighbor he gives me more than hugs he's such a teddy bear.

Posted by: boy george on January 21, 2006 at 11:25 AM | PERMALINK

I still wonder at the wisdom of a show with the premise of finding out which particular bigotry a neighborhood of Republicans holds least dear.

Posted by: libdevil on January 21, 2006 at 11:27 AM | PERMALINK

Pat, Dads dead, has been since 1981 but it was nice of you to think of him.

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 10:11 AM | PERMALINK

No need to remind me what year! I remember it well ... three or for months after I started banging your Mom, as I recall. Woman was so upset I could barely distinguish her cries of grief from all the regular moaning ...

Posted by: Pat on January 21, 2006 at 11:32 AM | PERMALINK

"how is it that they've lost so much ground in such a short time?"

Refresh my memory, but did they not just choose the next Supreme Court justice? And do they not now have four solid ideological plants on Supreme Court? if that's losing ground, God help us if Ralph Reed ever gets directly involved again.

Posted by: KPatrick on January 21, 2006 at 11:34 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin Drum writes, If the Christian right is really so all-powerful, how is it that they've lost so much ground in such a short time?

Ordinarily, a comment like this should cause one to reconsider one's assumptions.

Posted by: Steve White on January 21, 2006 at 12:10 PM | PERMALINK

It's an Established Fact that homophobic fundies and wingers are all closet cases, up to and including George "You shor got a purty mouth" Bush.

Posted by: CaseyL on January 21, 2006 at 12:14 PM | PERMALINK

So Disney *negotiated* with the right wingers but the killer line is at the end:

...Richard Land, an official with the Southern Baptist Convention involved in the negotiations with Disney last year to end the group's boycott of the company, said he did not recall any mention of "Neighborhood." He added, however, that had the show been broadcast - **particularly with an ending that showed Christians literally embracing their gay neighbors**- it could have scuttled the Southern Baptists' support for "Narnia."

I loved that oh so "Christian" irony-impaired line. How dare they love their neighbors! Who would tolerate people loving their neighbors?! Oh wait...yeah.

Posted by: Doc on January 21, 2006 at 12:20 PM | PERMALINK

It's an Established Fact that homophobic fundies and wingers are all closet cases, up to and including George "You shor got a purty mouth" Bush.
Posted by: CaseyL on January 21, 2006 at 12:14 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah - the difference is, the fundies and wingers don't want to behave responsibly.

The closet gay fundies and wingers refuse to even talk about protection, (or pretty much anything), which spreads aids.

The closet BDSM fundies and wingers refuse to listen to Safe, Sane, and Consensual - so people end up getting killed, etc.

The closet (otherwise straight) pervs want to knock all the women up, and not support the kids (similar to the way they want to invade countries, and not rebuild or provide security).

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on January 21, 2006 at 12:22 PM | PERMALINK

More straw demolishment... No one thinks they're all-powerful in terms of the culture, and especially with respect to giant corporations. It's in Republican politics that they have their greatest hold on power.

The fundamentalists have lost virtually all of the boycott battles they've started (Ford being the latest).

Posted by: Nell on January 21, 2006 at 12:24 PM | PERMALINK

Patton, you're so full of crap. Have you EVER been to Disney World on Gay Day?

Believe it or not, I have. I brought my wife and kids.

Just a bunch of people celebrating life together, enjoying a group activity. Not a single one tried to molest my kids, not a single one asked me if I wanted to switch teams. Neither I, nor my wife, even got a wink. Maybe a few freindly smiles - but I guess on God Day, smiles would be banned as dirty and sinful, right?

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on January 21, 2006 at 12:30 PM | PERMALINK

Osama, sure...they were just luring you into a false sense of security.......

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 12:32 PM | PERMALINK

the reconciliation with the son has been reported and credit really needs to be given to the father for having the courage to admit his ignorance and so publicly embrace his son. the story and his quotes are really quite moving:

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:snZCMIlHaPcJ:www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/life/stories/09/25circlec.html+jim+stewart,+gay+son&hl=en

Posted by: linda on January 21, 2006 at 12:37 PM | PERMALINK

OSAMA ....TAKE IT FROM A GAY GUY...LIKE YOU ALLWAYS DO, MY FRIEND:

YOU MUST HAVE MISSED THE BEST STUFF:

http://www.wdwinfo.com/disney-gay-days.htm

quotes:

"""but the sheer number of people (gays) who seem to go out of their way to rub their sexuality in everyones face during this event is nothing short of disgraceful.""""

"""A visit to Disney World that did not include the vision of grown men in go-go shorts, and ads for lubricant prominently displayed throughout the host hotel. Oh, and while were on the subject of image at the host hotel (the Sheraton World on International Drive) the line of beer trucks outside the resort was a nice touch, and the liquor kiosks and condom ads every 5 feet will certainly not further the image of us as a bunch of drunken sex fiends."""

""""It is widely known throughout the gay community in Orlando that if you want good drugs and great sex, the first week of June is a great time to visit. So much so, that the Orange County Sheriffs office found it necessary to station deputies and drug sniffing dogs in the lobby of the host hotel."""""

"""""And before I get any emails from my gay brethren calling me a self loathing aunt tom (someone actually called me that once), let me be clear Im proud of who and what I am. I just dont feel the need to force feed it to the world in that way. Disney is a place where reality is suspended, at least for a time. Its not a place for anyones political agenda right or left. Keep Key West in Key West and let Disney be Disney."""""

nuff said

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 12:39 PM | PERMALINK

http://www.trollwars.com

Over 6600+ unique hits... 2825+ Posts in 450+ topics, by 235+ members, and we have been open only a week!

Good ID's are still available, but going really fast! Get yours now before a someone snatches it!

Do you think you are troll enough to handle this? Are you able to roll with the big dogs? Can you stand the heat of a forum where the only rule is: "There Are No Rules!"

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No account deletions!
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Just hardcore trolling...

Even the liberals and christians are welcome! It seems even they have a taste for heat!

http://www.trollwars.com


Posted by: Troll Wars on January 21, 2006 at 12:50 PM | PERMALINK

I bet Osama especially liked the 2005 film festival that include the film TURNED OUT.

Pixie Flix Fest 2
Turned Out (70min). Dir: Jonathan Schwartz. The filmmaker looks at the issue of prison rape and the intricate social hierarchy that keeps it alive.

AHH, A FUN FAMILY GET AWAY WITH A LITTLE BIT OF HOMOSEXUAL PRISON RAPE THROWN IN. JUST WHAT I THINK OF WHEN I THINK DISNEY!!

Or Maybe Osama's wife really enjoyed:
"Eli Parker is Getting Married (91min). Dir: Ryan Parker. On his wedding day, Eli Parker awakens naked and handcuffed to his also naked best man; what an opportune time to come out to the groom.

WHAT, NO DUCK OR OR MOUSE??

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 12:51 PM | PERMALINK

Brokeback Mountain is not number one at the box office.

Posted by: Sandra on January 21, 2006 at 12:52 PM | PERMALINK

I just wanted to point out that Narnia was an appallingly bad movie. And the Christian analogy seemed perverse, since Aslan mauls the white witch. I'm not very well versed in the Gospel, but I don't think Jesus ever killed a satanic minion with his teeth.

Posted by: Finnegan Fee on January 21, 2006 at 12:59 PM | PERMALINK

We even caught a video of Osama Bin Fogotten at Disney:

rtsp://63.66.59.40/cns/gaydays2.rm

WARNING: VIDEOS OF GAY DAYS AT DISNEY MAY CONTAIN SIMULATED SEX ACTS, DEPRAVIT AND DRUG USE.

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 1:01 PM | PERMALINK

Dear Kevin,

Remember "Welcome to the Neighborhood," the ABC reality series that was cancelled before it aired last year?

Well, um, no. In fact, I can't imagine many subjects that would interest me less than a cancelled reality TV show. But then I haven't my finger on the pulse of real, authentic American culture the way you do.

It starred six couples African-American, Hispanic, Korean, tattooed, Wiccan, gay [ . . . ]

Wonderful. Are we now to have the "tattooed-American community" in addition to the other five above?

The premise, from your description of the show, seems to be that a "white, Christian, Republican" community would loathe all six couples sight unseen, and the challenge was to see which of them would get loathed least.

I wonder what the equivalent version from the other side would be? I mean, who would you stock the candidate pool with if you set it in, say, Berkeley? Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, NRA activists, militant pro-lifers, tobacco-company executives, Christian fundamentalist homeschoolers? Or what?

Posted by: waterfowl on January 21, 2006 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

I heard one of the reasons it was pulled was that people had to watch multiple episodes to get to the "aw shucks, we were wrong about you" moment. Before that, there would be lots of uncomfortable things said that would make the network look like they were promoting bigotry. And, yes, even if it wasn't a deciding factor there was a HUD issue. Discrimination in housing is a really big deal, and someone should have though of that.

I figured the gay guys would win, because they were still white men. Having lived in a bunch of states, including one in the bible belt, it is my experience that a lot of people would rather have gay, but otherwise "normal"-looking neighbors, than the other choices. But that kind of cynicism aside, a white couple is more likely to share a common culture with the white neighbors. (Notice I said "more likely." I don't know anything about the contestants and of course there is no "white" culture. But if they are all white suburbanites from similar socioeconomic backgrounds, they are more likely to have things in common.)

I do hope, in the end, that personality had something to do with it and they chose who they liked, not who they were least freaked-out by. (I have no illusions that reality tv has anything to do with reality, but a girl can dream.)

Posted by: snarktini on January 21, 2006 at 1:58 PM | PERMALINK

And where are these lilly white neighborhoods...are they in Kevin Drums area?

We have African Americans (Or 'chocolates' if your a Democrat), Asain, Hispanic, Gay, and people with tatooes in our neighborhood and there's only about 40 houses.

I haven't seen a Wiccan yet though and I will insure no Wiccan ever lives here!!!

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 2:01 PM | PERMALINK

Pity that there are no schools in Patton's area which teach English as a second language. Alice/Patton, try on-line schooling in grammar.

Perhaps you could move to Telluride, CO. Move in to the bigoted enclave of Arsenia/Wenn/Karen/Sandra - perhaps they have home schooling available - You could all share in reading Mein Kampf in the evenings.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on January 21, 2006 at 2:28 PM | PERMALINK

The big box nondenominational churches continuously preach conservative/Republican talking points during 'worship.' The Colorado Springs religious gang leader Priest Ted has weekly meetings with the president. There is a huge web presence by the religious right that provides uncountable amounts of well organized information, printable materials, and grass roots organizing about the political issues that closely represent those of the Republican Party. It should come as no surprise that some acquiescence by other cultural/capitalist economic partners to the power of the religious right takes place, especially for tens, if not hundreds of millions, of dollars.

Posted by: Powerpuff on January 21, 2006 at 3:39 PM | PERMALINK

It would amaze liberals that if they traveled as much as they claim that America is one of the least rascist cultures and societies.

Go to Africa, go to Europe and see some real rascism.

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 3:45 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks Paul, Hey everyone, thethirdpaul says he's got all the rascists and bigots out there in Telluride Colorado. wait...isn't that a big left wing, film festival, hollywood ski vacation joint?

When exactly was the last lynching in Telluride?

Have the drug a gay wiccan behind a truck lately?

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 3:51 PM | PERMALINK

Don't ask me, Patty - ask Arsenia/Wenn/Karen/Sandra

Posted by: thethirdPaul on January 21, 2006 at 4:13 PM | PERMALINK

Boy is it hard to tell the real trolls from the fake trolls, sometimes.

But, uh, murmeister? I think the Netherlands lost its world leadership a few hundred years back, and I don't think it had much to do with tolerance of homosexuality. And Sweden? Give me a break. On what basis at ALL could they ever be a world leader, even if they did eschew sexual permissiveness of all sorts.

Posted by: cal gal on January 21, 2006 at 4:47 PM | PERMALINK

Oops. Forgot I also wanted to point y'all to Mark Morford's column on a similar theme today in the SF Chronicle. Go to sfgate.com and look under "Columnists." Sorry, I'm inept at links or I do you one.

Posted by: cal gal on January 21, 2006 at 4:48 PM | PERMALINK

HEY PATTON. IF YOU WANT ANYONE TO READ YOUR COMMENTS YOU'VE GOT TO STOP SHOUTING.

Sorry about my ignorence re the noble history of Swedish world domination.

You know how much power the Christian right has? Just enough to be the absolute tools of Karl Rove. Just enough to get Bush re-elected and therefore just enough to pack the Supreme Court, one of the co-equal branches of our government, for decades to come.

Posted by: cal gal on January 21, 2006 at 4:54 PM | PERMALINK

I guess you can't ne subtle here....just rude.

Posted by: murmeister on January 21, 2006 at 5:31 PM | PERMALINK

murmeister,

Keep fighting the good fight.

Posted by: Charles XII on January 21, 2006 at 6:16 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin: the Christian Right just provides the votes - their role is that of useful idiots. Bush's 'base' is still the world of big money.

Posted by: RT on January 21, 2006 at 7:48 PM | PERMALINK

Only at The Washington Monthly could Telluride Colorado be considered Ring Wing.

Posted by: Patton on January 21, 2006 at 8:46 PM | PERMALINK

I've said this before elsewhere, but it really is worthwhile to read Scalia's dissent on Casey. That opinion didn't get written that long ago, but he says things about the regulation of homosexual relationships that I guaraneffintee you he would not erite today. Things have changed that much.

I like to say that love and commitment will win out over bigotry every time. It's happening here in real time, and faster than I would have credited.

Posted by: JayAckroyd on January 22, 2006 at 10:45 AM | PERMALINK

All of a sudden the cultural left community is talking all about life long love & commintment & childbearing(?)
Wow - Either they are pulling the wool over their own eyes (you guys tend to believe your own press)

Or all those proffesors who describe marriage as the ultimante bougioas institution that is patrirchal and archaic have had a massive change of heart..


Get in the game people....
Ever hear of a "foundational civilizational tenet"?

Wake up!

Posted by: Fitz on January 23, 2006 at 3:01 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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