Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

Email Newsletter icon, E-mail Newsletter icon, Email List icon, E-mail List icon Sign up for Free News & Updates

February 12, 2006
By: Amy Sullivan

"CHENEY ACCIDENTALLY SHOOTS FELLOW HUNTER IN TEXAS"....I tried to write my own headline, but, really how do you top this?

Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot and injured a man during a weekend quail hunting trip in Texas, his spokeswoman said today. Harry Whittington, 78, was "alert and doing fine" [although still hospitalized] after Cheney sprayed Whittington with shotgun pellets on Saturday.

Fantastic. Forget everything I've said before. How can you help but feel safer with these guys running the country?

Amy Sullivan 4:37 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (284)

Bookmark and Share
 
Comments

Think how many soldiers are glad he got his draft deferments.

Posted by: Carl on February 12, 2006 at 4:39 PM | PERMALINK

I go with the obvious here:

The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight

Posted by: frankly0 on February 12, 2006 at 4:41 PM | PERMALINK

Seems he values gun safety much as he values mine safety.

Posted by: Mudge on February 12, 2006 at 4:41 PM | PERMALINK

OK, I think I've figured out the anti-Bush angle on this one, folks.

Posted by: fred on February 12, 2006 at 4:43 PM | PERMALINK

Who gets to investiate the Vice President for reckless endangerment? Can he be indicted?

What's a man with such obvious foot problems doing tramping around in the forest anyway?

Posted by: beb on February 12, 2006 at 4:44 PM | PERMALINK

"OK, I think I've figured out the anti-Bush angle on this one, folks."

Heh. With this kind of self-parody, one hesitates to pile on.

But I'm glad you find yourself able to keep up this time, fred.

Posted by: Joel on February 12, 2006 at 4:47 PM | PERMALINK

Is the wabbit ok?

Posted by: jimbo on February 12, 2006 at 4:50 PM | PERMALINK

Has Cheney invited Bush to go hunting recently?

Posted by: Zeno on February 12, 2006 at 4:50 PM | PERMALINK

From AP:

Vice President Cheney shoots fellow hunter in Texas.

Vice President Cheney today accidently shot a fellow hunter while on a trip in Texas.

The hunter, Harry Whittington, 78, is in good condition.

According to witnesses, Whittington, a lawyer by trade, had been tied to a tree. Cheered on by his fellow hunters yelling "kill all the lawyers", the vice president shot several times before finally accidently wounding Whittington.

"We eventually started yelling "wound all the lawyers" as it didn't look like Dick was getting close", said an unidentified hunter.

In addition to wounds to his shoulder and neck, Whittington also suffered a minor bruise when the apple that had been placed on his head fell and struck his foot.

Posted by: Dicksknee on February 12, 2006 at 4:52 PM | PERMALINK

"We believe, Jim, that we have all the legal authority we need."

Posted by: The Anti-Kevin on February 12, 2006 at 4:55 PM | PERMALINK

Be velly quiet, I'm hunting wabbits!"

Posted by: Mad Blogger on February 12, 2006 at 4:56 PM | PERMALINK

Frell!

I just found this when I signed on to my ISP and thought I'd get the jump on ya'll.

In the words of one of our (and I use the term loosely) Supreme Court Justices: "Quack! Quack! Quack!"

Cheney Accidentally Shoots Fellow Hunter
By NEDRA PICKLER (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
February 12, 2006 4:20 PM EST


"The vice president didn't see him," she continued. "The covey flushed and the vice president picked out a bird and was following it and shot. And by god, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good."

Harry flies? Woo hoo!


Posted by: CFShep on February 12, 2006 at 4:57 PM | PERMALINK

To think that this guy is our fallback after Bush....

Posted by: Stefan on February 12, 2006 at 5:01 PM | PERMALINK

Cheney was just upset that the ducks weren't greeting him as a liberator....

Posted by: Stefan on February 12, 2006 at 5:02 PM | PERMALINK

That should energize the base. Expect renewed support from the red states.

Posted by: JS on February 12, 2006 at 5:03 PM | PERMALINK

None of this would have happened if Bush had only read that PDB titled "Cheney determined to strike in Texas"....

Posted by: Stefan on February 12, 2006 at 5:04 PM | PERMALINK

You just can't make this shit up ...

Posted by: Pat on February 12, 2006 at 5:05 PM | PERMALINK

This was merely pre-emptive. Cheney struck Whittington before Whittington could pose a threat to America. After all, you can't wait until the smoking gun is, well, a smoking gun....

Posted by: Stefan on February 12, 2006 at 5:06 PM | PERMALINK

So, this happened at 5:30 p.m. CST yesterday (Saturday). Any good reason why the AP story didn't go up until 4:20 p.m. EST today?

Looks like the Corpus Christi Caller-Times broke the story, in a piece dated today. For all I know, they had the story up this morning. But if that were true, wouldn't the word have gotten around right away? I know it's not a nationally prominent paper, but still.

Oh, and, of course, according to the Caller-Times reporter, "Officials with the Kenedy County Sheriffs Office, who helped investigate the incident, did not return phone calls Sunday afternoon." Can't let the locals get in David Addington's way, I guess.

Posted by: nandrews3 on February 12, 2006 at 5:07 PM | PERMALINK

Just goes to show you,

Guns, don't shoot people, vice-presidents shoot people.

Posted by: michael farris on February 12, 2006 at 5:08 PM | PERMALINK

So finally, finally, after five draft deferments and a lifetime spent avoiding combat and getting other people to fight his battles for him -- finally, Cheney has actually shot someone, and it turns out to be someone on his own side.

It surpasses all satire.

Posted by: Stefan on February 12, 2006 at 5:09 PM | PERMALINK

Ah, the old lobbyist sitting on an oscillating trap routine.

Can just see it now, whenever Cheney walks down K Street and someone yells "Pull".

Posted by: thethirdPaul on February 12, 2006 at 5:10 PM | PERMALINK

I'll eschew the joke, and say that I sincerely hope that Mr. Cheney emerges from this tragedy a better man, more sensitive to the victims of random acts of violence.

Posted by: neil on February 12, 2006 at 5:11 PM | PERMALINK

Although we do our best to target only enemy, some collateral damage is regrettably unavoidable.

Posted by: JS on February 12, 2006 at 5:14 PM | PERMALINK

So finally, finally, after five draft deferments and a lifetime spent avoiding combat and getting other people to fight his battles for him -- finally, Cheney has actually shot someone, and it turns out to be someone on his own side.

Well, at least now Cheney has a good reason for not having gone into combat: he was protecting the American troops.

Posted by: frankly0 on February 12, 2006 at 5:16 PM | PERMALINK

I mean, Kevin, everyone of your favorite posters have been waiting to jump on this news with you, and what fun we are going to have!

My first reaction, on msn.com, they had Cheney Shoots Lawyer, and
Related:
CHeney investigated in Plame case.

And I said, did my intrepid detective get shot by Cheney while just there, at the moment of truth about the Leaking Planes Case!!

Posted by: Matt on February 12, 2006 at 5:16 PM | PERMALINK

Next Maureen Dowd column: "Murder Mostly Fowl".

Posted by: JS on February 12, 2006 at 5:17 PM | PERMALINK

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=8212

Quick. Somebody setup a PAC to fund regular hunting trips for George and Dick and maybe Antony and whomever else of the Republican crew that craves sitting duck buck shot hunting.

Maybe we'll get really lucky and George'll tell Dick to mountain bike with him.

We could include buckets of pretzels for easy munching while they clear the brush with their shot guns. The Republican weed wacker.

Posted by: Amos Anan on February 12, 2006 at 5:19 PM | PERMALINK

A quick Google search discloses that Whittington is (gasp!) a good ol' boy. An Austin lawyer, chairman of the Office of Patient Protection Executive Committee.

An Austin biz journal story adds:

"He has served as chairman of the Texas Public Finance Authority Board and is a past member of the Texas Board of Corrections, which is now known as the Texas Board of Criminal Justice.

"Whittington serves as a public member and chairman of the Texas Funeral Service Commission.

Posted by: Buce on February 12, 2006 at 5:20 PM | PERMALINK

The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight.


...unless it was their own countrymen.

Posted by: Ten in Tenn on February 12, 2006 at 5:23 PM | PERMALINK

Why couldn't this have happened during a duck-hunting trip with Nino? Why?

Posted by: shortstop on February 12, 2006 at 5:23 PM | PERMALINK

Googling Harry Whittington, I see that he's way up there in Republican circles in Texas. And his experience is just so perfect for this case... He's a former member of the state prisons board (will Cheney being seeing the inside of Huntsville???? I wish!), a former head of the Texas Patients' Rights board (now he gets to see the fruits of his labor), and former head of the Texas state funeral oversite board (he almost got to see firsthand the fruits of his labor there). And actually, as such, he probably has the goods on Bush's dealings with that board. It was quite controversial at the time. I am sure there's a whole lot more, including his successfully fighting eminent domain battles on property he owns. And all that is just a few minutes sorting through Google.

Posted by: Jim in Arizona on February 12, 2006 at 5:24 PM | PERMALINK


NANDREWS3: So, this happened at 5:30 p.m. CST yesterday (Saturday). Any good reason why the AP story didn't go up until 4:20 p.m. EST today?

I was going to remark about this also, but decided to read through the comments first to see if anyone else already had.

As for a "good reason" for the delay, it seems obvious to me that much effort was made to get all parties' stories to match. It's likely also that they held off releasing the information until it was determined that the condition of the injured person was not life-threatening. Could well be that a complete cover-up was the initial plan, but not everyone would agree to it -- and Cheney couldn't make it a sure thing because he was out of shells.


Posted by: jayarbee on February 12, 2006 at 5:29 PM | PERMALINK

"VP Shoots Senior Citizen in the Face" - that's the better headline

Posted by: adhocheretic on February 12, 2006 at 5:29 PM | PERMALINK

From Shakespeare's Henry VI:

The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

Quiz: What was the name of the character who spoke these words?

Posted by: JS on February 12, 2006 at 5:35 PM | PERMALINK

And to think Howard Dean compared Dick Cheney with Aaron Burr this morning on Face the Nation without even knowing about this shooting. How perspicacious of him. Still, at least Cheney didn't shoot Alexander Hamilton.

Posted by: Ben Brackley on February 12, 2006 at 5:36 PM | PERMALINK

How are they going to blame this one on the Libruls and the Demoncrats? That's what I want to know. Maybe the "homosexual agenda" got a hold of Cheney after he saw Brokeback Mountain. Or those damn feminists...

Posted by: gq on February 12, 2006 at 5:36 PM | PERMALINK

This will go well in November: liberals ridiculing an old man with a pig's heart.

Posted by: tbrosz on February 12, 2006 at 5:37 PM | PERMALINK

Answer to the quiz question: Dick.

Posted by: JS on February 12, 2006 at 5:38 PM | PERMALINK

God only knows what kind of promises Whittington extracted from the WH so that he would give a nice little spin to this story (Oh yeah, he's been shot many times in the past! No big deal!!!)

Wonder how much of Texas he's going to wind up owning when all is said and done?

Posted by: frankly0 on February 12, 2006 at 5:38 PM | PERMALINK

Dick the butcher.

Could well be that a complete cover-up was the initial plan, but not everyone would agree to it -- and Cheney couldn't make it a sure thing because he was out of shells.

That was damn funny, jayarbee. You should keep this sense of humor thing going.

Posted by: shortstop on February 12, 2006 at 5:39 PM | PERMALINK

Big Time had an ambulance and medical staff on call? He ain't a healthy man.

Posted by: ahem on February 12, 2006 at 5:42 PM | PERMALINK

Howard Dean compared Dick Cheney with Aaron Burr this morning on Face the Nation

From the description of the shot pattern, 10 paces sounds about right.

Posted by: ranaaurora on February 12, 2006 at 5:45 PM | PERMALINK

Big Time had an ambulance and medical staff on call? He ain't a healthy man.

My friends and I have even money on Cheney finishing this second term.*

*Note to NSA: No, we're not planning on trying to help him out of it--he'll handle that himself--so fuck off.

Posted by: shortstop on February 12, 2006 at 5:45 PM | PERMALINK

The AP's 5:22 p.m. story adds this line:

"The vice president's office did not disclose the accident until nearly 24 hours after it happened."

And when the reporter talks to Katharine Armstrong, the ranch owner, she just happens to make clear that it's basically Harry Whittington's own fault for getting shot, because he "came up from behind the vice president and the other hunter and didn't signal them or indicate to them or announce himself."

I guess if Brezhnev had ever shot someone from the hunting grounds outside the dacha, they would have played it the same way.

Posted by: nandrews3 on February 12, 2006 at 5:45 PM | PERMALINK

That's right, Dick the butcher said "let's kill all the lawyers".

If this doesn't prove intelligent design, I don't know what does.

Posted by: JS on February 12, 2006 at 5:45 PM | PERMALINK

"CHENEY ACCIDENTALLY SHOOTS FELLOW HUNTER IN TEXAS"....I tried to write my own headline, but, really how do you top this?

Well, Aaron Burr shot Alexander Hamilton.

This seems to be the sort of trouble vice presidents get into....

(Of course, Burr eventually was tried for treason - it had something to do with New Orleans.)

Posted by: Thinker on February 12, 2006 at 5:50 PM | PERMALINK

I wonder how things would have gone had a nationally known Democratic politician done this. Would it be emblematic of Democratic ineptness at things manly? Demonstrative of an Inability to connect with the enjoyments of the ordinary guy? Revelaing of how Democrats are merely posing for photo ops? A metaphor for Democratic incompetence in matters of security? I suspect that Cheney's blunder will not be taken to mean any of these things and that this episode, alas, will be quickly forgotten.

Posted by: SS on February 12, 2006 at 5:50 PM | PERMALINK

Cheney's blaming the hunter he shot for not alerting him to be in his line of fire.

"It's the intelligence!"

Maybe if Cheney hadn't gotten those deferments, he could actually shoot straight.

Posted by: Memekiller on February 12, 2006 at 5:53 PM | PERMALINK

Hunting with Cheney -- Safer than riding with Kennedy.

Posted by: The Comedian on February 12, 2006 at 5:54 PM | PERMALINK

Hunting with Cheney -- Safer than riding with Kennedy.

or driving in the same town as Laura Bush.

Posted by: B on February 12, 2006 at 6:04 PM | PERMALINK

This story doesn't sound quite right. Cheney shot the guy in the face? I thought that he always shot his victims in the back.

Posted by: arkie on February 12, 2006 at 6:04 PM | PERMALINK

You know, I DO wonder if there shouldn't be in ordinary circumstances an inquest into this shooting, to determine negligence.

Could forestalling THAT be the reason the incident was not reported immediately, I wonder?

Does anybody know the usual procedure in such cases?

Posted by: frankly0 on February 12, 2006 at 6:05 PM | PERMALINK

Really, if there should be an inquest, and Cheney's people were getting stories straight, wouldn't that be obstruction of justice?

Posted by: frankly0 on February 12, 2006 at 6:10 PM | PERMALINK

You're all missing the obvious joke, and the one that tops all the others:

Cheney shot someone? Perfectly justifiable. He thought the guy had weapons of mass destruction.

Posted by: Sheldon on February 12, 2006 at 6:11 PM | PERMALINK

I'm not a hunter and I don't know anything about hunting, but picture it: the guy came up behind Cheney, who turned, at least a hundred degrees, and fired at an angle low enough to hit a human, in a direction they must have just come from, where he must have realized someone who was not right up there with him must have been.

Posted by: cld on February 12, 2006 at 6:12 PM | PERMALINK

At least Laura was able to kill her target; Cheney only winged his.

Posted by: Hedley Lamarr on February 12, 2006 at 6:15 PM | PERMALINK

Really, if there should be an inquest, and Cheney's people were getting stories straight, wouldn't that be obstruction of justice?

Do we actually have inquests in this country? I thought that was only in Dorothy Sayers novels.

Posted by: shortstop on February 12, 2006 at 6:16 PM | PERMALINK

Yea, but did Secretary Hamilton survive?

Posted by: Matt on February 12, 2006 at 6:18 PM | PERMALINK

Do we actually have inquests in this country? I thought that was only in Dorothy Sayers novels.

Well, there's got to be some procedure, I'd think, whatever it might be called.

Posted by: frankly0 on February 12, 2006 at 6:19 PM | PERMALINK

Look, the basic point I'm making is that the shooting could well be an example of criminal negligence, for all we know.

How is criminal negligence ruled out in such cases, or ruled in? What's the procedure?

Posted by: frankly0 on February 12, 2006 at 6:22 PM | PERMALINK

Cheney shoots hunter
who was the head
of the Funeral Commission.

how do you take a commission on funerals? must be a lucrative position.

Posted by: lib on February 12, 2006 at 6:25 PM | PERMALINK

I think Jane @ FDL has the best hed yet: Cheney's Got A Gun

Posted by: Daryl Cobranchi on February 12, 2006 at 6:27 PM | PERMALINK

First prize:

jimbo:
"Is the wabbit OK?"

Dicksknee second place with his AP news parody

Pat: Third for simply saying the obvious

"You just can't make this shit up ..."

Best political retort:
Hunting with Cheney -- Safer than riding with Kennedy. (Do I have some Chappaquiddick jokes)

First to coin the age old trivia answer
"Answer to the quiz question: Dick."

What can I say? Best Political campaign theme:
"Vote Republican, get shot in the face"

Posted by: Matt on February 12, 2006 at 6:27 PM | PERMALINK

Folks,
This whole situation is actually quite interesting. Hunting accidents happen all the time, and in many cases they end the friendships between the people involved, especially when the shooter so brazenly blames the person he shot.

Did Cheney really so quickly blame the guy for creeping up behind him? If that's true, he's even more of a scumbag than I imagined. I would like to see his exact words, though.

As far as this being a good excuse for Cheney's actions, that is total bullshit. Remember than Cheney was not a SpecOps soldier out on assignment somewhere. He was not a city cop stalking through an abandoned crackhouse. He was hunting a damn deer. There is no reason why he should be so startled by footsteps behind him that he would turn and make all the neccesary actions to shoot his hunting buddy.

Most policemen in rural areas will tell you that the vast majority of such cases involve alcohol or drugs. I am not making any assumptions here, but it's a question that should be asked. It is always just assumed when the shooter is a random "redneck", after all.

And I should also add that, whether or not alcohol was involved, moral judgements usually are made about hunters who shoot their friends anbd then blame their friends for the accident. And no, these judgements are not handed down by anti-hunting big-city "liberals". They are handed down by the communities in which these accidents occur.

Posted by: kokblok on February 12, 2006 at 6:32 PM | PERMALINK

it is a mildly amusing story.

with that said, its clear that a lot of people here have never been hunting for quail and the like; or know anything about birdshot.

most avid grouse or quail hunters have been hit with birdshot at some point...I'm just glad he wasn't hit in the eyes.

Posted by: Nathan on February 12, 2006 at 6:32 PM | PERMALINK

The really bad news:

no more hunting = more time on his hands.

Posted by: JS on February 12, 2006 at 6:32 PM | PERMALINK

"He was hunting a damn deer."

Are you sure he wasn't hunting Quayle?

Posted by: Joel on February 12, 2006 at 6:34 PM | PERMALINK

Man oh man, are the comedians gonna have a field day with this one. But, the press will just "shoot down" anyone who criticizes the president.

Who knew there were 78-year-old hunter terrorists in Texas?

Condi Rice: No one could uh, anticipate the Vice President would use a shotgun as a weapon.

Now we know where the 'undisclosed bunker' is.

It must've been an accident. If it had been intentional the man would've been knifed in the back.

Did Karl Rove tell Cheney this would improve his public approval rating?

Cheney: I don't think Medicare Part D was killing off the old people fast enough, so I decided to help.

In California Arnold Schwarzenegger must be jealous. He went motorcycling and had an accident without a driver's license. By comparison Cheney looks much more macho. I wonder if Cheney had a hunting license.

So many obvious jokes, so little time...to duck!

Posted by: MarkH on February 12, 2006 at 6:35 PM | PERMALINK

Nathan--

Yes, you're right it does make a difference that it is bird hunting, not deer hunting (and I forgot about the fact that indeed they were not hunting deer, since everyone I know who hunts sticks to deer)..
That does make a bit of difference, but I would hardly say that everyone who bird-hunts has been hit at that range with that AMOUNT of birdshot.

Posted by: kokblok on February 12, 2006 at 6:36 PM | PERMALINK

kokblok:

You should actually read the story before commenting. seriously. A. It was the owner of the ranch who blamed Whittington, not Cheney. B. they weren't deerhunting...they were hunting quail...it was just a birdshot injury. C. Cheney didn't shoot him because he was startled...some quail were roused and the guy happened to be in the same line of fire.


frankly0: sorry, there's no set procedure for an investigation...without loss of life or evidence of foul play -- birdshot wounds are way too routine to spark official investigations..seriously.

Posted by: Nathan on February 12, 2006 at 6:37 PM | PERMALINK

Country Club Cowboys shouldn't receive hunting licenses.

Posted by: Ten in Tenn on February 12, 2006 at 6:37 PM | PERMALINK

The point about alcohol often being in play in these cases is a good one. That's a really, really good reason not to report the incident until, you know, the next day.

Posted by: shortstop on February 12, 2006 at 6:40 PM | PERMALINK

kokblok:

fair enough. are we clear to what extent he was hit? the ranch owner indicated that they wouldn't have called an ambulance (which is more than plausible...for those unfamiliar with bird-hunting...if you've seen the movie The Wedding Crashers the bird-hunting scene in that movie indicates how non-serious birdshot injuries generally are)....if the VP hadn't been present...apparently the injuries weren't very extensive.

Posted by: Nathan on February 12, 2006 at 6:41 PM | PERMALINK

"The point about alcohol often being in play in these cases is a good one."

Then they were hunting Wild Turkey?

Posted by: Joel on February 12, 2006 at 6:41 PM | PERMALINK

Monty Python's got you covered:
http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_pictures/compdiff/shooting.jpg

Posted by: doug r on February 12, 2006 at 6:51 PM | PERMALINK

The poster who stated that most quail and grouse hunters have been peppered with shot must be hunting with a different type of hunter from the ones that I've always hunted with: everyone facing one direction;everyone shooting one direction. I'm sure Leno. Letterman, Conan, et al, will have a ball with this one.

Posted by: sparky on February 12, 2006 at 6:52 PM | PERMALINK

Surely Cheney is not allowed even to pick up a deer rifle.

Posted by: Ace Franze on February 12, 2006 at 6:52 PM | PERMALINK

Nathan,

The guy is evidently going to spend at least two days in the hospital. His age probably has something to do with it, but a short range shotgun blast to the neck does have the potential to be serious. They don't report the distance but the tightness of the pattern (cheek, neck, upper chest) indicates it was probably less than 20 meters.

Posted by: ranaaurora on February 12, 2006 at 6:56 PM | PERMALINK

yeah, he is doing his part in diverting the media attention from Iraq, you go Cheney!

Posted by: Christian on February 12, 2006 at 6:57 PM | PERMALINK

frankly0: sorry, there's no set procedure for an investigation...without loss of life or evidence of foul play -- birdshot wounds are way too routine to spark official investigations..seriously.

There was certainly evidence of fowl play....

Posted by: Stefan on February 12, 2006 at 6:58 PM | PERMALINK

ranaaurora:

I do think it's primarily his age...but yeah, you're right on the tightness of the pattern...at short range their probably was a fair amount of skin penetration. I'm sure it wasn't pleasant for him...

I'm assuming that he was wearing protective eyewear (its idiotic not to when bird-hunting).

my only point is that its clear some posters are thinking in terms of deer-hunting...where injuries tend to be serious or fatal. in birdhunting, injuries are extremely common (albeit, rarely reported to the state DNR)...serious injuries are rare

Posted by: Nathan on February 12, 2006 at 7:00 PM | PERMALINK

Look, you go hunting with the vice president you have, not the vice president you wish you had....

Posted by: Stefan on February 12, 2006 at 7:01 PM | PERMALINK

Stefan:

lol.

Posted by: Nathan on February 12, 2006 at 7:02 PM | PERMALINK


NATHAN: most avid grouse or quail hunters have been hit with birdshot at some point

I find this statement dubious, at best. But taking your qualifiers and deferring to your insistence, it certainly doesn't absolve Cheney of negligence. If one lives in a neighborhood where most residents have been victims of a mugging, it doesn't follow that most of them have also mugged someone. Likewise, even if most hunters have been hit, it doesn't follow that most hunters have hit someone. Nice try, though.


Posted by: jayarbee on February 12, 2006 at 7:05 PM | PERMALINK

we know chaney never does anything by accident , so did dead eye dick knock the apple off his head ?

Posted by: JUST WONDERING on February 12, 2006 at 7:06 PM | PERMALINK

Nathan--

A) As you recall, I never claimed to know exactly what was said. I myself prefaced my statement by saying I wasn't sure what Cheney had said.
B) It is just as absurd to assume that Cheney was following normal procedure as it is to assume that he was being negligent. If he was a "normal" hunter, this explanation would not just be accepted at face value.
C) The seriousness of the wound is hardly the issue. Surely the victim could have easily lost his sight, as you point out.
D) You're right about reading the article, of course. I was having a festive time myself celebrating Russia's initial Olympic successes with some fine caraway vodka. So you can in full justification accuse me of some "drunk hunting" of my own!

Posted by: kokblok on February 12, 2006 at 7:07 PM | PERMALINK

jayarbee, kokblok:


I don't have the foggiest clue who was at fault here...nor, frankly, do I care. These things happen.

if Cheney was shooting in his assigned direction (i.e. the same direction as everyone else) and Whittington happened to inadvertently step into the line of fire...then Whittington's most likely at fault.

if Cheney didn't clear his line first, then he's at fault.

as for whether hunters' explanations are accepted at face-value....for a non-fatal incident..a thorough DNR investigation generally will only take place if a. the incident is reported and b., there are widely differing stories. in other words, if no one in a hunting party is making a stink..no one's going to waste resources investigating the matter.

Posted by: Nathan on February 12, 2006 at 7:15 PM | PERMALINK

Hmm, shall we say, _The Shooting Party_

(fall of 1913)

The great hunter has just shot one of the hunt servants, mistaking him for a bird--

Sir Randolph Nettleby: (agonized, headmasterish): "You weren't shooting like a gentleman, [Richard]."

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22the+shooting+party%22&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088111/

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000A2ZPJ/103-6730032-9626253?v=glance&n=130


Posted by: Andrew D. Todd on February 12, 2006 at 7:23 PM | PERMALINK

Can anyone say whether the hunting scene in Dr T and the Women accurately illustrates the kind of hunting involved here?

Posted by: cld on February 12, 2006 at 7:24 PM | PERMALINK

Just read that the ranch is owned by the daughter of one of the people who hired Cheney at Halliburton.

Posted by: cld on February 12, 2006 at 7:27 PM | PERMALINK

If there is a conspiracy here, then it has to do with Eliza May's whistle blowing on the funeral commission when george was guv. Whittington took over the funeral board, evidently to cover things up? He paid off Eliza, and ever since has been holding the goods on old george.

I am sure Cheny knew what he was doing when he about faced, aim that shotgun at good old harry, took aim, and boom; attempted to solve a major george bribery scandal.

Anyway, if there is a conspiracy, this is it.

Posted by: Matt on February 12, 2006 at 7:29 PM | PERMALINK

So was this one of those ranches Cheney has gone to in the past, where they just keep releasing birds from cages until he's tired of killing them?

What a sportsman.

Posted by: Wapiti on February 12, 2006 at 7:30 PM | PERMALINK

I heard Cheney once shot a man just for snoring.

Posted by: Irony Man on February 12, 2006 at 7:48 PM | PERMALINK

Can you imagine if this was VP Gore ?
.

Posted by: VJ on February 12, 2006 at 7:48 PM | PERMALINK

"CHENEY ACCIDENTALLY SHOOTS FELLOW HUNTER IN TEXAS"....

Incompetent piece of garbage!

Posted by: Econo Buzz on February 12, 2006 at 7:53 PM | PERMALINK

Betcha Dick's first words to Harry after the blast were, "Go fuck yourself, and stop bleeding on me."

Posted by: CaseyL on February 12, 2006 at 7:55 PM | PERMALINK

Has Cheney invited Scooter Libby, Michael Brown, Jack Abramoff, or any of those rebellious Republican senators to go hunting lately?

Posted by: Alf on February 12, 2006 at 7:58 PM | PERMALINK

"So, this happened at 5:30 p.m. CST yesterday (Saturday). Any good reason why the AP story didn't go up until 4:20 p.m. EST today?"

Clearly to make sure it wasn't the Sunday headline on every newstand in america.

It will get buried monday by most "liberal" media sources.

Posted by: Mysticdog on February 12, 2006 at 8:05 PM | PERMALINK

With a team of doctors, specialists and a stand by ambulance that accompanies Cheney , I wonder which version of the new health plan or HMO he has? Sign me up.

Posted by: david on February 12, 2006 at 8:09 PM | PERMALINK

This is a huge coup for the vice president. It creates a great opportunity for him to poke fun at himself and recoup some much-needed points in his favorability ratings.

The shtick they'll do about this at the correspondents' dinner is bound to be a hit. It'll be the biggest thing since that hilarious bit about looking for WMD's under the sofa -- you know, it's comical because we killed a buncha people and it turns out there were no WMD's. What a hoot!

The punchline: "Dick's fighting them over there we don't have to fight them over here." [huge laughs and applause]

Whew, I'm laughing so hard it hurts.

Posted by: trex on February 12, 2006 at 8:26 PM | PERMALINK

Trivia quiz:

Name all the men shot by sitting Vice Presidents in the U.S.?

Posted by: Matt on February 12, 2006 at 8:36 PM | PERMALINK

Cheney is as careful with a shotgun as he is with national security

Posted by: paul on February 12, 2006 at 8:42 PM | PERMALINK

Guns don't kill people, dick kills people

Posted by: GOD on February 12, 2006 at 8:44 PM | PERMALINK

This time I'm serious, I think.

Isn't it time to consider a rule on threshold training for responsible gun use? Like, e.g., a requirement of past military service?

Posted by: Buce on February 12, 2006 at 8:53 PM | PERMALINK

Incredible but true.

Aaron Burr Vice, as Vice President, shot and killed Alexander, then went on the lam for a while, thinking the NYPD was after him (true). He literally escaped, hid out a while before returning to work in Washington.

Kind a like Dick's 24 hours, huh?

Another parallel that will astound you. Burr was indicted for treason, attempting to create his own little republic.

An apology to old Tom Jefferson, but we remind everyone the way it worked in those days. Tom was the first Democrat, and Aaron was from the other party.


Posted by: Matt on February 12, 2006 at 8:53 PM | PERMALINK

You shoot the fellow hunters you've got rather than the fellow hunters you might want.

Posted by: Jeffrey Davis on February 12, 2006 at 8:55 PM | PERMALINK

The "Accidental" headline reminds of a SNL skit from many years ago (which they had to apologize for later): The Claudine Longet Memorial Ski Race.

Skiers would come down the course and, "Oh no, he's accidentally shot by Claudine Longet!"

Posted by: Jim Bartle on February 12, 2006 at 9:01 PM | PERMALINK

And while we're at it, what's with this "accidentally" in the lede. Had it been anyone anyone else the story would have said, e.g.:

Buce shot a fellow hunter yesterday afternoon.

Police said it appeared to have been an accident.
===

Was Anne E. Kornblut (NYT) there to observe first hand? Didn't her city editor tell her that if your mother says she loves you, you should check it out?

Posted by: Buce on February 12, 2006 at 9:02 PM | PERMALINK

ABC News:

"Each of the hunters were wearing bright orange vests at the time"

Well, its whittington's own damn fault, he looked just like a bird.

Posted by: Matt on February 12, 2006 at 9:02 PM | PERMALINK

Didn't they make fun of Kerry for the way he carried his rifle while duck hunting? Cheney epitomizes the country club cowboy. Go fuck yourself, Dick.

Posted by: Hoyt Pollard on February 12, 2006 at 9:09 PM | PERMALINK

A Hunting We Will GO (1932)

Plot Outline: Amorous hunters Bimbo and Koko set out to bag some furs for coat-loving Betty Boop, but things don't turn out the way they'd planned...


Posted by: Matt on February 12, 2006 at 9:15 PM | PERMALINK

"This story doesn't sound quite right. Cheney shot the guy in the face? I thought that he always shot his victims in the back."

Aaah, mob style. Evidently, Dick's a friend of ours. Fuggeddabouddit.

Posted by: Steve on February 12, 2006 at 9:16 PM | PERMALINK

Count Demonet: The peasants may grow violent!

King Louis XVI: They are my people! I am their sovereign...I love them...

King Louis XVI: PULL!

(fires shotgun)

Peasant, flying through air: AAARRAWWww...

Posted by: grape_crush on February 12, 2006 at 9:23 PM | PERMALINK

Just in! Justice Scalia escapes from deranged assasin!

(CBS) Vice President Dick Cheney and Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia spent part of last week duck hunting together at a private camp in southern Louisiana

Posted by: Matt on February 12, 2006 at 9:25 PM | PERMALINK

Guns Don't Shoot People, Trigger-Happy VPs do

Posted by: Cranky Blogger on February 12, 2006 at 9:27 PM | PERMALINK

JIMBO
We have a terrific show for you today. Were gonna kill some [attorneys] and were gonna kill some [lawyers]. Now, the new law passed by Colorado legislature, which Ned and I call pussy law number FOUR - states that we can no longer kill [lawyers] in defense. In other words, our old line of Its coming right for us
NED
Its coming right for us.
JIMBO
-No longer works. So now, we only kill [lawyers] to, quote, thin out their numbers. If we dont hunt, then these [lawyers] will grow too big in number and they wont have enough food. So you see? We have to kill [lawyers] or else theyll die.

Posted by: Steve on February 12, 2006 at 9:34 PM | PERMALINK

There's enough lawyers to go around for everybody to take up skeet shooting. We could even make it an Olympic Sport. Thanks Dickie.

Posted by: murmeister on February 12, 2006 at 9:37 PM | PERMALINK

First place post in the jcricket hall of fame:


Look, you go hunting with the vice president you have, not the vice president you wish you had....Posted by: Stefan on February 12, 2006 at 7:01 PM | PERMALINK

Next up:

ABC News:

"Each of the hunters were wearing bright orange vests at the time"

Apparently no one bothered to tell Wittington that his hunting partner was color blind.
*********************


Cheney: Shooting them over here so he doesn't have to over there.

****************

See, the troops should be happy all he does is show up once a year at a turkey dinner at an overseas mess tent. Gawd help them all if he offers to help hunt the damn critter down. ("No, please, Mr Vice President, put down the rifle...really)


Posted by: jcricket on February 12, 2006 at 9:40 PM | PERMALINK

In the interest of sportmanship, Dick should let the lawyers shoot back next time.

Posted by: Matt on February 12, 2006 at 9:52 PM | PERMALINK

At the time of the shooting, both Republicans and Democrats, as well as the intelligence community, believed Mr. Wittington to be a quail. Now all these Monday-morning quarterback are trying to make a political issue out of it. But in fact it's well established that Wittington was engaged in quail-related program activities, and had longstanding links with quail.

Posted by: brooksfoe on February 12, 2006 at 9:56 PM | PERMALINK

VYVYAN: "I had to. I was drunk"

Posted by: Steve on February 12, 2006 at 9:58 PM | PERMALINK

Just to remind everybody what asimilar hunting accident did to cyclist champ Greg Lemond:

" In the midst of his run of success he was involved in an appalling accident which almost cost him his life and left him in serious danger of never being able to ride again, let alone compete and win at the top level of the sport. This tragedy struck on April 20, 1987, when his brother-in-law accidentally shot Greg while hunting in California. Over forty shotgun pellets ripped through Greg's body, lodging not only in his back and legs, but more critically in his small intestine, liver, diaphragm, and heart lining. While waiting for rescue, his right lung collapsed and he lost three quarters of his blood supply. A cell phone, a police helicopter and nearby hospital that specialized in gun shot wounds saved his life. Because of the dangerous locations, surgeons were forced to leave over thirty of the pellets imbedded in his body."

Posted by: Yoni on February 12, 2006 at 10:01 PM | PERMALINK

Could it be he mistook his target for Dan QUAIL?

Posted by: murmeister on February 12, 2006 at 10:06 PM | PERMALINK

You shoot with the dick you have not the dick you want.

Posted by: lib on February 12, 2006 at 10:15 PM | PERMALINK

Whittington was unwittingly or not too far to Cheney's left.

Posted by: conrad Skinner on February 12, 2006 at 10:18 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks Yoni -- it's always serious. I had a relative lose an eye in a fishing accident and another get Schiavoized in a deer hunting accident.

Maybe Cheney can go around to grade schools after his term is up and give presentations on hunter safety.

Posted by: ranaaurora on February 12, 2006 at 10:31 PM | PERMALINK

National Nitwit has the NRA's response to the hunting tragedy.

Posted by: Subcomandante Bob on February 12, 2006 at 10:42 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe it'll turn out that Laura Bush was driving him when this happened.

Well, we know these killaz both believe in capital punishment.

Posted by: Kenji on February 12, 2006 at 10:45 PM | PERMALINK

I'd like to know what the letter of the law is on the question of whether Cheney should be investigated, and under what conditions he might, at least, have his hunting license revoked.

I mean, if the guy is a proven menace, why should he be allowed to continue to hunt, for Christ's sake? It doesn't matter if the guy he shot doesn't raise a problem -- a menace is a menace.

Posted by: frankly0 on February 12, 2006 at 10:53 PM | PERMALINK

This has been a funny thread with the exception of the no-it-all Nathan who does not know shit from shinola about quail hunting.

Son, I grew up in Kansas and was taught at a very early age by an uncle how to shoot - We did a lot of rabbit and quail hunting - There would usually be 3 to 4 in a group - We observed proper safety and no one was ever shot.
The only ones in the Kansas or Western Missouri are who were shot by friends, usually were shot as a result of alcohol.
Accident, my foot, this was pure negligence on the part of Dickless.

And back to comic relief.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on February 12, 2006 at 10:56 PM | PERMALINK

LOL, brooksfoe.

I think they waited 24 hours to air the story to make sure the press didn't talk to Wittington before Rove had a chance to write up his talking points.

Posted by: JS on February 12, 2006 at 10:57 PM | PERMALINK

What seems pretty obvious is that Cheney could VERY easily have killed or maimed the guy -- for God's sake, the guy was at most 30 yards away, and the shot could very readily have penetrated his eye and God knows what else.

I'd like to see some evidence that Cheney was not clearly the one responsible here. And I'd like to see some reason that the question shouldn't be settled by presumably impartial authorities (however inconceivable that may be in Texas.)

Posted by: frankly0 on February 12, 2006 at 10:59 PM | PERMALINK

Hi, did I mention that I'm an expert on quail hunting as well as a lawyer? Because I am. People who quail hunt get shot by accident all the time. I myself have been accidentally shot in the head multiple times, as well as the groin and scrotum--rendering me impotent and sterile.

Posted by: Nathan on February 12, 2006 at 11:04 PM | PERMALINK

This almost makes one nostalgic for Nixon-era Republicans. At least that vice president (the first one, Spiro Agnew) was only a public hazard while golfing.

Posted by: Vincent on February 12, 2006 at 11:11 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe Cheney can go around to grade schools after his term is up and give presentations on hunter safety.Posted by: ranaaurora on February 12, 2006 at 10:31 PM | PERMALINK


He could always finish reading "My Pet Goat". Those poor kids never did hear the end of the story. Not getting closure is probably affecting them to this day.

Posted by: jcricket on February 12, 2006 at 11:11 PM | PERMALINK


Did Cheney at least give ol' Harry a running start?

Posted by: Andy on February 12, 2006 at 11:12 PM | PERMALINK

I'd be greatly surprised if, by the letter of the law, ANY hunting incident in which there was bodily harm, particularly of a serious sort, isn't ALWAYS required to be investigated.

Of course, only incidents that the authorities are made aware will be investigated -- but how could they pretend not to know about this one?

And for God's sake, the guy has been in the hospital for two days, in the intensive care unit, no less -- that's pretty fucking serious by definition, I'd think.

It may seem like a joke to most people, and in a way it is, but it's a lot more than a joke, I'm sure, as far as the law is concerned.

I'd like to see the letter of the law here implemented. Let's see whether Cheney was in fact negligent, and should, at bare minimum, have his hunting license revoked. A menace is a menace, whether or not he can get his hunting buddy to say he's OK with it all.

Posted by: frankly0 on February 12, 2006 at 11:14 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe it'll turn out that Laura Bush was driving him when this happened.

Well, we know these killaz both believe in capital punishment.

Posted by: Kenji on February 12, 2006 at 10:45 PM | PERMALINK

Charming.

The target's doesn't seemed to be too pissed.

Posted by: McA on February 12, 2006 at 11:14 PM | PERMALINK

Think, people: if this were a Democrat who had done this, do you imagine for a moment that the Republicans would be content to let this pass as nothing but a joke, instead of demanding that the law as written be enforced up his ass?

Posted by: frankly0 on February 12, 2006 at 11:17 PM | PERMALINK

OT observation, in case anyone's interested...

There's been a sharp increase in pressure on Iran for pursuing a nuclear program...just read this article at the London Times:

NEOCONSERVATIVES in Washington are urging President George W Bush to drop diplomacy with Iran in favour of boosting internal dissent and opposition forces within the Islamic regime.
In an open breach with White House policy, they argue the multilateral diplomacy pursued by Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, is encouraging the Iranians to snub the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and develop a nuclear bomb under cover of a peaceful energy programme.

Of course, Rice has been on a roadshow for most of this week; I watched her appear on two different Sunday news shows simultaneously while at the gym this morning.

Now, I'm watching The Sum of All Fears on CBS right now - a story about nuclear terrorism, complete with a pretty graphic protrayal of a nuke going off in Baltimore.

So am I noticing a correlation or just a coincidence?

Are American citizents being prepped for military action in Iraq or am I just being paranoid?

Posted by: grape_crush on February 12, 2006 at 11:20 PM | PERMALINK

The target's doesn't seemed to be too pissed.

Whether or not Cheney was negligent has NOTHING to do with whether or not his good buddy says he's not pissed.

Posted by: frankly0 on February 12, 2006 at 11:21 PM | PERMALINK

Not to be pedantic, but it wasn't an accident; it was a mistake. If you're walking along with your rifle over your shoulder, and you fall down and the rifle goes off and hits a cow, that's an accident. If you're walking along and think you see a deer, so you aim carefully, pull the trigger on purpose, and kill a cow, that's a mistake.

Posted by: anandine on February 12, 2006 at 11:21 PM | PERMALINK

Must read link first - Got all excited when I misread it as "Cheney Hunts Qualye" - Dang it all, two dueling VPs - what a let down.

Posted by: stupid git on February 12, 2006 at 11:22 PM | PERMALINK

OK, the official line is out:

"The person who is not doing the shooting at the point is just as responsible and, should be, as the person actually shooting," Armstrong said.

Expect Whittington's public apology.

Posted by: JS on February 12, 2006 at 11:23 PM | PERMALINK

typo - military action in Iran, not Iraq.

...Habit, I guess...

Posted by: grape_crush on February 12, 2006 at 11:27 PM | PERMALINK

OK, the official line is out:

Look, the fact is that Armstrong, who is nothing more than the owner of the property in which the hunting took place, is NOT an authority on the matter of who is responsible. Why take her view with any seriousness at all?

Again, what are the official regulations and guidelines on such points? How is responsibility generally determined? What ACTUALLY happened? That is ALL that should count here, NOT what sundry buddies of Cheney have to say.

Press this case as if you were a Republican going after a Democrat, OK?

Posted by: frankly0 on February 12, 2006 at 11:31 PM | PERMALINK

Is Whittington a friend of Ambramoff?

Cheney can only hit a guy who is 78 years old?

Was Dick upset because he just found out Mary is a lesbian?

Will Cheney blame the CIA for falsely pointing out that Whittington was a quail?

Can we encourage the Vice President to go hunting more often, and to take the entire cabinet with him? I'm sure they all need a break.

Posted by: craigie on February 12, 2006 at 11:35 PM | PERMALINK

If you're walking along and think you see a deer, so you aim carefully, pull the trigger on purpose, and kill a cow, that's a mistake.

Er, no, that's a Republican going hunting. Deer, cow, what's the difference?

Posted by: craigie on February 12, 2006 at 11:36 PM | PERMALINK

My colleagues, nothing can be gained by this petty finger-pointing. Trying to determine whether Mr. Whittington did in fact jump in front of the gun or whether our vice president is a fucking menace is not a fruitful use of our evening, while Hollywood continues to flout the values we hold dear and Al Qaeda stalks every one of us in our homes, especially those of us living in secluded rural areas who have the TV on all day.

I'm sure we all agree that we should be grateful that this incident did not result in more serious harm to Mr. Cheney's career. Oh, and let's all say an ecumenical, bipartisan prayer for Mr. Whitney. Whittington. Whatever.

Posted by: Joe Lieberman on February 12, 2006 at 11:44 PM | PERMALINK

So Cheney made a mistake Hunting. Nobody got killed and hopefully everyone can move on. That is the important part of the story, Bad Aim Cheney cracks aside.

To be honest though, I'd rather go Hunting with Cheney than driving with Teddy. Cheney stays and helps you out, Ted runs away and pays your family off to keep it quiet later.

Whoops.

Posted by: Brian on February 12, 2006 at 11:53 PM | PERMALINK

frankly0, I submit to you that "a Republican going after a Democrat" does not ask "what are the official regulations and guidelines on such points?". Rather, the Republican calls Rove and is told what to say.

And I doubt very much that this Ms. Armstrong shot off her mouth without having been appropriately coached. From what I know, that's how the Republicans operate. It's the Democrats that pay attention to the official rules.

Posted by: JS on February 12, 2006 at 11:56 PM | PERMALINK

To be honest though, I'd rather go Hunting with Cheney than driving with Teddy. Cheney stays and helps you out, Ted runs away and pays your family off to keep it quiet later.

Whoops.

Posted by: Brian on February 12, 2006 at 11:53 PM | PERMALINK

Plus Cheney wasn't driving you home for nookie. Plus Cheney didn't cover it up for years until he ran for Prezzident.

Besides thanks to the Democrat allies like the ACLU, killing seniors is now legal in Oregon. What's the problem will a little hunting fun?

Doubt the secret service is going to let Cheney go hunting with Bush though.


Posted by: McA on February 13, 2006 at 12:04 AM | PERMALINK

No one could possibly have imagined that a person would be standing where Cheney was going to shoot.

Posted by: jose hipants on February 13, 2006 at 12:07 AM | PERMALINK

Check out the latest Political Comic from H.L.

Dick Cheney goes hunting


The Hollywood Liberal


Thank You

Posted by: Jack on February 13, 2006 at 12:15 AM | PERMALINK

Whittington was supposed to greet Cheney as a liberator.

Posted by: craigie on February 13, 2006 at 12:15 AM | PERMALINK

OT but saw the name 'Yoni' above.

Reminds me of the Yahoo headline of last week:

Slider Lund qualifies.

'Lund' in Hindi is penis.

'Yoni' is the other part of the equation.

Posted by: nut on February 13, 2006 at 12:21 AM | PERMALINK

"No one could possibly have imagined that a person would be standing where Cheney was going to shoot."

Posted by: jose hipants on February 13, 2006 at 12:07 AM | PERMALINK

I LOVE IT!!!! I vote for this one as best comment on this thread!

Posted by: nepeta on February 13, 2006 at 12:22 AM | PERMALINK

The rate of hunting accidents in Texas is 2.7 per 100,000 licenses sold. I'm sure that many are unreported, but I have to think that shootings that put someone in the hospital usually are reported.

If you're careful, almost every such accident is preventable. Cheney isn't careful, but we knew that, didn't we?

Posted by: gcochran on February 13, 2006 at 12:52 AM | PERMALINK

What mystifies me is how Barbara Bush managed to arrange this. Anyone else remember the story from about last November about how George's mom was so annoyed with the way Cheney had allowed her sons reputation to fall apart that she had set in motion a plot to get rid of him --'shortly after the state of the union address'?

I remember it. Don't remember where I saw it, but I do remember it.

It's sort of like the magical way Old Bush got rid of the Japanese prime minister he didn't like by barfing on him. Two weeks later, the guy was history.

Posted by: cld on February 13, 2006 at 12:53 AM | PERMALINK

As Dead Eye Dickless once said,

"We must be prepared to face our responsibilities and use force if necessary."

Actually, he was just following the Code of the West as described in "Water Hole Number Three"; Do Unto Others Before They Can Do It Unto You.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on February 13, 2006 at 1:00 AM | PERMALINK

What does Ted Kennedy have to do with any of this? Or did I traipse into the middle of the Wingnut Non Sequitar Festival?

Posted by: Bobarino on February 13, 2006 at 1:33 AM | PERMALINK

frankly0, re: Look, the fact is that Armstrong, who is nothing more than the owner of the property in which the hunting took place, is NOT an authority on the matter of who is responsible. Why take her view with any seriousness at all?

From the NYT article:

Anne Armstrong, the matriarch of the family that owns the ranch, is a Republican Party stalwart who served in the Nixon and Ford administrations...

And

Lea Anne McBride, Mr. Cheney's spokeswoman, said... Asked why the vice president's office had made no announcement about the accident, Ms. McBride said, "We deferred to the Armstrongs regarding what had taken place at their ranch."

Posted by: JS on February 13, 2006 at 1:41 AM | PERMALINK

Well, I guess we can say for certain that Dick's "other priorities" didn't include learning gun safety.

Posted by: Irony Man on February 13, 2006 at 1:43 AM | PERMALINK

'Lea Anne McBride, Mr. Cheney's spokeswoman, said... Asked why the vice president's office had made no announcement about the accident, Ms. McBride said, "We deferred to the Armstrongs regarding what had taken place at their ranch."

Well, of course! As an elected official the Vice President has no responsibility for anything. It's entirely a matter for the locals to handle. There's no reason to think he would know anything about it.

Posted by: cld on February 13, 2006 at 1:43 AM | PERMALINK

Since the victim evidently wasn't too seriously injured, the incident does have its humorous side. My suggestions for Cheney's new nickname:
1. Double-barrel Dick
2. Quick-Draw Dick

NW

Posted by: NW on February 13, 2006 at 1:44 AM | PERMALINK

Ms. Armstrong also said: "So when a bird flushed and the vice president swung in to shoot it, Harry was where the bird was."

I think there are two ways to interpret this. Either this particular quail was almost stepped on by Whittington. Or, Cheney actually thought Whittington was, as suggested above, a quail.

Posted by: JS on February 13, 2006 at 1:49 AM | PERMALINK

My previous quote from Ms Armstrong needs this background, also supplied by Ms. A:

When he [Whittington] approached, Mr. Cheney had already begun to shoot into a covey of quail that was taking off from the ground.

So Whittington is alleged to have been at the very spot where birds were taking off from the ground.

Posted by: JS on February 13, 2006 at 1:53 AM | PERMALINK

What is certainly true is that in any auto accident in which there's bodily injury, it's a felony not to report it promptly to the police.

I've got to believe the same holds true for shooting someone in a hunt.

Laws and regulations, guys. We should find out what they are and find out if they are being upheld.

Posted by: frankly0 on February 13, 2006 at 1:57 AM | PERMALINK

The rate of hunting accidents in Texas is 2.7 per 100,000 licenses sold.

And here Nathan upthread was claiming up and down that these accidents were as common as fleas in August.

Ah, Nathan -- always the tool.

Posted by: frankly0 on February 13, 2006 at 2:04 AM | PERMALINK

Sounds more like they're trying to say he dashed in front of Cheney's gun intentionally.

Adding more fuel to my Barbara Bush conspiracy theory. How long has she known Whittington?

Posted by: cld on February 13, 2006 at 2:06 AM | PERMALINK

"I'd like to know what the letter of the law is on the question of whether Cheney should be investigated..."

But the NYT says it happened "accidentally", right in the headline. Case closed.

By the way, is McA an illegal alien or did he simply fail Spellcheck 101?

Posted by: Kenji on February 13, 2006 at 3:19 AM | PERMALINK

The bird is not entirely blameless in this incident.

It should be captured before it pulls the same stunt on another innocent lawyer.

Posted by: Matt on February 13, 2006 at 3:25 AM | PERMALINK

"The rate of hunting accidents in Texas is 2.7 per 100,000 licenses sold."

What? You need a license to shoot lawyers in Texas.

Posted by: Matt on February 13, 2006 at 3:27 AM | PERMALINK

> My colleagues, nothing can be gained by this petty finger-pointing.
> Trying to determine whether Mr. Whittington did in fact jump in
> front of the gun or whether our vice president is a fucking menace
> is not a fruitful use of our evening, while Hollywood continues
> to flout the values we hold dear and Al Qaeda stalks every one
> of us in our homes, especially those of us living in secluded
> rural areas who have the TV on all day.

> I'm sure we all agree that we should be grateful that this
> incident did not result in more serious harm to Mr. Cheney's
> career. Oh, and let's all say an ecumenical, bipartisan prayer
> for Mr. Whitney. Whittington. Whatever.

> Posted by: Joe Lieberman

Post of the thread :)

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on February 13, 2006 at 3:41 AM | PERMALINK

"Cheney wasn't driving you home for nookie"

Okay, there we have it in a proverbial nutshell, folks: it's not the violence, it's the sex that drives them mental. "At least he didn't do this or that..." People have sex. Deal with it, assholes.

Oh, by the way, I see the Times has removed "accidentally" from its headline.

Posted by: Kenji on February 13, 2006 at 3:51 AM | PERMALINK

I guess it is obvious that Cheney is very distracted, even rattled, by all his troubles. Probably rule one for hunters is that you do not go out when drunk or angry/distracted.

Posted by: bob h on February 13, 2006 at 7:03 AM | PERMALINK

"Is the wabbit ok?"

I believe it was a "Quayle" hunting trip. Thats why his lawyer buddy was so easily mistaken for the target.

Posted by: Lurker42 on February 13, 2006 at 7:52 AM | PERMALINK

What does Ted Kennedy have to do with any of this?

Because a single 'But Teddy Kennedy' is more powerful than a dozen 'But Clintons', and especially comes in handy in cases of death and near-death. The fact that ol' Teddy got his license at the Laura Bush School of Driving never seems to register, though.

Posted by: Dustbin Of History on February 13, 2006 at 8:02 AM | PERMALINK

Cheney has killed fewer people with his guns than Kennedy has with his car.

Posted by: sportsfan079 on February 13, 2006 at 8:29 AM | PERMALINK

Speaking as a conservative, this incident is a major groaner.

I saw it on the news monitor yesterday afternoon, and I thought "Dick, you fool!. The press is going to have a field day with this!". Actually, that is what I thought after I hoped and prayed that the guy was OK.

What is a major shock to me is all the people on this thread that think that the press is not liberal, and that they will "bury" this story. I've heard of nothing else since it happened! Even on crappy local news shows it's the lead story.

Posted by: sportsfan079 on February 13, 2006 at 8:32 AM | PERMALINK

I think you're somewhat detached from reality sportsfan. The vice president, in point of fact, accidentally shot someone. Yes, that's big news. Deal with it.

I'm actually fairly impressed with the left side response to this so far; a few off color jokes, but hey that's fair game. As someone who's hoping the other liberals in this country will join me in dumping anti-gun hysteria so we can actually win some elections, I'm glad there hasn't been a whole lot of handwringing about the evils of guns.

The only evil here is the idiocy of Dick Cheney...again.

Posted by: Sebastian on February 13, 2006 at 8:50 AM | PERMALINK

Actually, nookie seems to have been involved, as amazing as that seems. Cheney was hunting with the nubile (for him, anyway) American ambassador to Switzerland as well. Quail/tail hunting? Hard to say, but we have one weird VP. Mega-weird. Horrifyingly inappropriate. Do they even care how they look to the serfs any more?

Posted by: Sparko on February 13, 2006 at 8:57 AM | PERMALINK

As one guide puts it:
"Each hunter's range of gun swing should be from the mid-point between him and his partner and out to his side. He should never cross the mid-point to shoot at a quail flying on his partner's side. Not only is this poor shotgunning etiquette, it is dangerous.

Additionally, a quail hunter should never take a shot at a low flying quail that would cause him to lower the muzzle of his shotgun below a horizontal plane with the ground. Taking a shot at a low-flying quail has ended the life of many fine pointing dogs since the inception of this great sport.

If each hunter places safety and sportsmanship at a much higher priority than actually pulling the trigger, quail hunting is truly a unique hunting experience."

Just think if he shot a pointer instead of a lawyer.

Posted by: Steve Paradis on February 13, 2006 at 8:57 AM | PERMALINK

Actually the Kennedy-Cheney comparisons aren't totally irrelevant.
They are in some respects, peers, although Dick has several more DUI arrests than Ted. From the same era, too. Of course, we have no way of knowing if Dick ever killed anyone a la Laura, or had an accident and abandoned the vehicle a la Ted. Nobody gave a shit who he(Cheney) was, and he was out in the middle of barely developed countryside during that time.
'Course Ted hasn't ever shot anybody - he might have an aversion to firearms, not quite sure why.

All that said - if you're pulling a trigger, it is incumbent on you to make DAMN sure you know what you're firing on.
I taught firearm safety to a couple hundred Cub Scouts (yeah, 7-10 year olds) and to my knowledge, none of them ever accidentally shot anyone. And the only ones who deliberately shot someone were wearing uniforms at the time.

Dick fucked up. "Big-time." So did his buddy - never trust someone with a firearm to not shoot it at you. But ultimately, it comes down to who pulled the trigger. One reason I've never joined the NRA - in my considered opinion they're sloppy and incautious.

Posted by: kenga on February 13, 2006 at 9:00 AM | PERMALINK

Cheney has killed fewer people with his guns than

with his policies.

Posted by: Irony Man on February 13, 2006 at 9:14 AM | PERMALINK

Call me crazy, but is it possible the old man was say having relations with someone when the shot gun fell and went off? Or angered that someone else was? They were accompanied by Pamela Williford, the story was held 18-hours, and his victim was intensive care for a bit and may have been hit at pretty close range. Weird doings--
I think it may be time for GWB to ask for a resignation. Last throes means something else to me right now. There is more to the story than meets the 18-hour suppression . . .

Posted by: Sparko on February 13, 2006 at 9:14 AM | PERMALINK

Nathan on February 12, 2006 at 7:15 PM |
wrote:
"if Cheney was shooting in his assigned direction (i.e. the same direction as everyone else) and Whittington happened to inadvertently step into the line of fire...then Whittington's most likely at fault.

if Cheney didn't clear his line first, then he's at fault."

This is utter b.s., Nathan.

The shooter is always responsible for controlling his own firearm and clearing his line of sight.

That doesn't mean you blunder in front of fellow hunters. But even when that happens, the responsibility is the shooter's.

Any hunter knows that. Done much huntin'? Or just a lot of coverin'?

Posted by: SombreroFallout on February 13, 2006 at 9:20 AM | PERMALINK

Ready. Fire. Aim.

How Cheney can you get?

Posted by: frankly0 on February 13, 2006 at 9:24 AM | PERMALINK

You're late to the Kennedy party sportsfan079. And do you REALLY want to keep drawing attention to Cheney's multiple Vietnam draft deferments? He had his chance to kill, he was just too goddamn important to risk it.

Posted by: Eric Paulsen on February 13, 2006 at 9:27 AM | PERMALINK

Cheney has killed fewer people with his guns than

with his policies. - Irony Man

Sweet!

Posted by: Eric Paulsen on February 13, 2006 at 9:31 AM | PERMALINK

The shooter is always responsible for controlling his own firearm and clearing his line of sight.

Cheney shot the guy. It's Cheney's fault. Period.

What was that about the Party of Personal Responsibility?

Posted by: ericblair on February 13, 2006 at 9:32 AM | PERMALINK

Steve Paradis on Feb 13, 2006 at 8:57 AM|
wrote:
"Taking a shot at a low-flying quail has ended the life of many fine pointing dogs since the inception of this great sport.

If each hunter places safety and sportsmanship at a much higher priority than actually pulling the trigger, quail hunting is truly a unique hunting experience."

Just think if he shot a pointer instead of a lawyer."

Then the populace, media, and hunters everywhere -- would have been outraged.

Posted by: SombreroFallout on February 13, 2006 at 9:34 AM | PERMALINK

Excellent, Irony Man.

This thread is a joy.

Call me crazy, but is it possible the old man was say having relations with someone when the shot gun fell and went off?

Well, since he has other ways of getting the Purple Pill than reliance on the new Medicare 'scrip coverage, it's possible.

But no. I have to go with simple drunken blundering. It fits so well with his history of misoperating cars and the country.

Posted by: shortstop on February 13, 2006 at 9:48 AM | PERMALINK

an experienced hunter comments on some things he
finds VERY,VERY STRANGE about the cheney hunting
incident

to see this VERY,VERY INTERESTING article go to:

http://direland.typepad.com/direland/

i apologize for the shouting caps

Posted by: wschneid25 on February 13, 2006 at 9:56 AM | PERMALINK

But why did Cheney accidently shoot this man?!

Clearly this needs an independent counsel to investigate this possible attempted murder by the vice president.

This is every bit a mystery as the Vince Foster matter and we need to get to the bottom of it!

Why Foster committed suicide and why Cheney shot his fellow hunter are some of the most important questions this nation faces.

Another independent counsel for the Vince Foster matter and one for the Cheney shooting.

After all, I want to be fair to everybody, because really I'm objective and just want to get to the truth.

I'm not a partisan hack who wants to dredge up conspiracy theories for years and years about even the most insignificant (nation-wise) of events.

Posted by: 'Jay' on February 13, 2006 at 10:04 AM | PERMALINK

New bumper sticker:

Friends don't let friends hunt with Dick Cheney.

Posted by: arkie on February 13, 2006 at 10:05 AM | PERMALINK

Shooting Whittington was just the first insult. Now just wait until Cheney tries to slash Whittington's medical insurance.....

Posted by: Stefan on February 13, 2006 at 10:17 AM | PERMALINK

"Watching a [Olympics skating] short track race is like watching Dick Cheney go quail hunting. Something always goes wrong."

- Jim Caple, ESPN

Posted by: Advocate for God on February 13, 2006 at 10:27 AM | PERMALINK

Here are the basics of the incident, as best one can infer from what has been said.

Whittington was BEHIND Cheney. He was wearing a bright orange vest. He was at most 30 yards away. Cheney wheeled all the way around and took a shot.

I'm not sure how you could take a MORE reckless shot than this. He couldn't see a bright orange vest at 30 yards? He turns all the way around into the single most unacceptable direction to take the shot? How does it get worse than this?

Really, the man is a menace. Why should he continue to have a hunting license? Shouldn't he at least be pressed to give up hunting voluntarily ?

Posted by: frankly0 on February 13, 2006 at 10:27 AM | PERMALINK

Really, this incident is a metaphor for the entire Cheney Presidency.

Posted by: frankly0 on February 13, 2006 at 10:30 AM | PERMALINK

"But why did Cheney accidently shoot this man?!"

A more important question is whether or not he did it legally.

Posted by: Lurker42 on February 13, 2006 at 10:32 AM | PERMALINK

Lurker42: A more important question is whether or not he did it legally.

Actually, the question would be whether or not he did it criminally, not "legally."

You can't "legally" shoot someone in such a situation unless it is in self-defense which doesn't even seem to be on the table here.

(Note that "accidental" still wouldn't be "legal", since civil liability would likely attach. "Legal" implies without legal liabilty of any kind.)

Since "why" goes to show what culpable mental state, if any, Cheney had, "why" is the most important question, since "why" will go a long way in determining whether the shooting was criminal or not.

Posted by: 'Jay' on February 13, 2006 at 10:39 AM | PERMALINK

The other key question is why the White House didn't announce this, but left it to Armstrong, a private citizen, to release the news a day later.

When the Times asked why Cheney's office hadn't made any announcement about the shooting they replied "We deferred to the Armstrongs regarding what had taken place at their ranch."

That's just bizarre and unbelievable. So the new rule is if it happens on someone's private property they won't comment on it?

Could you imagine the wingnut squeals of outrage if Vice President Gore had shot someone back in 1997, say, and the White House had sat on the story for a day?

Posted by: Stefan on February 13, 2006 at 10:51 AM | PERMALINK

Let's do try to remember that when Dicks are in charge of US foreign policy, tens of thousands of young Americans and brown-skinned foreigners of all ages die in gun-related deaths. And that's no joke.

Posted by: Kenji on February 13, 2006 at 10:53 AM | PERMALINK

I think you're somewhat detached from reality sportsfan. The vice president, in point of fact, accidentally shot someone. Yes, that's big news. Deal with it.

Actually, sebastian, nowhere did I deny it was big news. That's why I called it a 'groaner' for conservatives. I only said I was suprised that people on this thread are suggesting that the press will "bury" this story.

I'm NOT suprised that I had to 'dumb it down' for you.

Posted by: sportsfan079 on February 13, 2006 at 10:54 AM | PERMALINK

Shooting Whittington was just the first insult. Now just wait until Cheney tries to slash Whittington's medical insurance.....

snerk! Oh, God, Stefan, you crack me up.

Posted by: shortstop on February 13, 2006 at 11:05 AM | PERMALINK

Cheney has killed fewer people with his guns than

with his policies. - Irony Man

Pretty good burn, Irony Man.

Especially effective, since 95% of people on this board:

1) Don't support the war effort. And:

2) Have never held a gun.

Posted by: sportsfan079 on February 13, 2006 at 11:13 AM | PERMALINK

2) Have never held a gun.

Sure about that? Bet I'm a better shot than you are, literally as well as figuratively.

Posted by: shortstop on February 13, 2006 at 11:16 AM | PERMALINK

2) Have never held a gun.

Sure about that? Bet I'm a better shot than you are, literally as well as figuratively.

Yep, I'm sure. You may be in the 5%, but I doubt it.

Posted by: sportsfan079 on February 13, 2006 at 11:19 AM | PERMALINK

So if more of us had fired guns, would the vice president be less of a bumbling fool? I ask merely for information, you understand.

Posted by: shortstop on February 13, 2006 at 11:24 AM | PERMALINK

I heard a rumor that the guy was sleeping with Lynne.

Posted by: Yancey Ward on February 13, 2006 at 11:26 AM | PERMALINK

Wasn't it Nietzche who said that history repeats itself. First as tragedy, then as farce.

Cheney first shot Iraq thinking it was Al Qaida. Now, he shoots a lawyer.

Posted by: Jeffrey Davis on February 13, 2006 at 11:27 AM | PERMALINK

I heard a rumor that the guy was sleeping with Lynne.

Oh, I'm fairly certain that's not happenin'.

Posted by: shortstop on February 13, 2006 at 11:29 AM | PERMALINK

Cheney's bold acceptance of responsibility for his mistake, "Sorry, I thought it was a liberal."

Posted by: Michael7843853 G-O in 08! on February 13, 2006 at 11:31 AM | PERMALINK

As usual, it's discredit the messenger (he doesn't like guns, he's against the war, he's gay!). But these guys -- and if they call themselves conservatives, they're lying -- rarely address what's actually at stake.

Cheney's a murderer (albeit with other priorities), regardless of what happened on the birdy farm, and the U.S. government is loathed throughout the world.

Posted by: Kenji on February 13, 2006 at 11:31 AM | PERMALINK

"Actually, the question would be whether or not he did it criminally, not "legally."

Ok Thanks Jay but it was posted "tongue in cheek".
A play on the wire tapping thing.

Posted by: Lurker42 on February 13, 2006 at 11:35 AM | PERMALINK

"Sorry, I thought it was a liberal."

No apology would be required if that were the case.

Again, tongue in cheek, just kidding, hold yer fire.
hehe!

Posted by: Lurker42 on February 13, 2006 at 11:38 AM | PERMALINK

So if more of us had fired guns, would the vice president be less of a bumbling fool? I ask merely for information, you understand.

No, speaking even as a conservative, I have to admit you've got us cold on that one. I don't think I'd characterize the Vice President as a "bumbling fool", but there's not doubt it doesn't help our side, and I wish it wouldn't have happened.

Not to mention, as a sportsman, I have to admit that proper handling of firearms should always be the number one priority. I really, really hope this doesn't turn into demonizing of all firearms and outdoor hunting sports.

Posted by: sportsfan079 on February 13, 2006 at 11:38 AM | PERMALINK

"When the Times asked why Cheney's office hadn't made any announcement about the shooting they replied "We deferred to the Armstrongs regarding what had taken place at their ranch."

That's just bizarre and unbelievable. So the new rule is if it happens on someone's private property they won't comment on it?"

Perhaps Cheney shot him, you know, by accident and really didn't feel like reliving the whole thing? Made news didn't it? The White House shouldn't be reporting crap like Cheney (as a Private citizen) went hunting and accidentely shot someone. Where was Bill when he was supposed to be reporting that he screwed an intern? At least Cheney was honest, Clinton went "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" "What is the meaning of "is"".

"Cheney has killed fewer people with his guns than

with his policies. - Irony Man"

Find me a politician whose policy hasn't somehow killed somebody (Hi Clinton Kosovo.) and I'll find you a politician who isn't a politician.

"Let's do try to remember that when Dicks are in charge of US foreign policy, tens of thousands of young Americans and brown-skinned foreigners of all ages die in gun-related deaths. And that's no joke."

So basically barring the Civil War, we can impugn: FDR, Eisenhower, LBJ, Nixon, Bush 41, Clinton, and Bush 43, and basically any other War time president after 1900.

"Could you imagine the wingnut squeals of outrage if Vice President Gore had shot someone back in 1997, say, and the White House had sat on the story for a day?"

No thanks, we have enough material when Al is just shooting his MOUTH off. Don't give the man a Gun, he's freaking CRAZY!

Posted by: Brian on February 13, 2006 at 11:46 AM | PERMALINK

EXCLUSIVE: First Photo Of Cheney Shooting Victim

Hospital Picture

Posted by: nepeta on February 13, 2006 at 11:47 AM | PERMALINK

>Look, the fact is that Armstrong, who is nothing
>more than the owner of the property in which the
>hunting took place, is NOT an authority on the
>matter of who is responsible. Why take her view
>with any seriousness at all?

Not that it is important, but Katherine Armstrong also was Chairman of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department Commission up until about 2 years ago. (She was appointed to the Commission by Bush, and then promoted to chair by Perry.) She also is a hunter of some renown. She should have some understanding of who is responsible in a hunting accident.

My understanding of this event is that Wittingham dropped back behind the pack of hunters to recover a bird without telling anyone, and accidentally ventured into or near Cheney's designated fire zone. At 30 yards in that kind of brush, he may well have been invisible, or nearly so, orange vest or not. Quail don't flush up, like ducks - they fly very low to the ground, and generally across the field of fire, meaning the hunter is swinging his gun aimed low to catch them. (Quail hate flying, and spend most of their time on the ground. They will only fly far enough to get clear of the potential predator, no further.) The convergence of an out-of position Wittingham, dense brush, and low flying quail brought on this accident.

Accidents like this generally need two mistakes. In this case, one was Cheney's (lack of awareness of location of companions, and possibly firing at a target outside his designated fire-zone - no one has said) and the second Wittingham's (being out of position in live-fire situation).

Posted by: rvman on February 13, 2006 at 11:57 AM | PERMALINK

"sleeping with Lynne"

At his age, he possibly was "asleep" with Lynne.

Although, I recently saw a very elderly man in a grocery store here in Portland wearing a jacket with Viagara on both front and back.

Posted by: stupid git on February 13, 2006 at 12:02 PM | PERMALINK

sportsfan079 on Feb 13, 2006 at 11:38 AM |
wrote:

"Not to mention, as a sportsman, I have to admit that proper handling of firearms should always be the number one priority. I really, really hope this doesn't turn into demonizing of all firearms and outdoor hunting sports."

As a "liberal," I'll defend to the death your right to bear arms, as protected by the 2nd Amendment. One comma, ill-advisedly misinterpreted, cannot bear the full weight of inverting the meaning and intent of that entry in the Bill of Rights.

Just as the illegitimate 'regulation' of the other 9 Amendments of the first 10 don't stand up to any scrutiny conducted with even minimal integrity.

But the major point here, sportsfan, is Cheney's cavalier attitude towards sportsmanship, his utter lack of respect for the conservation ethos of hunters, and his reckless disregard for the rules of firearm/hunter safety.

The latter nearly got Whittington killed. The first two allowed Cheney to bag 70 geese over the course of a few hours in a canned hunt a few years back. Hardly sporting, and in direct violation of any conservation ethic imaginable. It wasn't "hunting," in any possible terms, by your own definition.

But more important, Cheney's arrogance towards the rules of hunting are perfectly consistent with his arrogance towards the rules that apply to public officials.

The impropriety and poor judgment of hunting with Antonin Scalia shortly before the Supreme Court reviewed the suit seeking release of his Energy Task Force papers is but one example.

My question for you, sportsfan079, is whether hunters, sportsmen, or any conservative who believes in the rule of law can continue to support Cheney & Bush?

How can conservatives put up with or in any way support a Veep like Cheney, who holds himself above the law and is unaccountable to it?

Who ordered the leak of Valerie Plame's name, greatly damaging our national security? For political purposes?

How much can a true-blue conservative actually put up with?

Posted by: SombreroFallout on February 13, 2006 at 12:10 PM | PERMALINK

rvman
Much of your post is nonsense. The quail flightpath, the excuses you grant in every direction, your conjecturing.

I question whether you've ever been hunting, as well as your honesty. The shooter is responsible for his firearm. Period. You just don't shoot behind the hunting party. Period. Any experienced hunter knows it's reasonable to pick up a downed bird behind the fire zone.

And no, most hunting accidents do NOT result from a convergence of these factors. (Whittington wasn't out of position, for starters.) It's that shooters forget to control their own firearm. Shooters often 'think' they know where everyone is. Or they 'see' a deer, when all they really see is movement -- and just shoot without knowing what their target actually is.

But the bottom line is whether they're actually controlling their own firearm. That's the cause and the responsibility. That and the ease with which they're actually unaware of their own surroundings -- before taking the shot.

This, of course, would be excluding stupid accidents...

Posted by: SombreroFallout on February 13, 2006 at 12:25 PM | PERMALINK

Sombrero: rvman...Much of your post is nonsense.

But...but it came straight from Ken Mehlman!

I must say I'm looking forward to the press conference in which the riddled Mr. Whittington apologizes and goes on to tell us what a dab hand with a firearm the VP is.

Posted by: shortstop on February 13, 2006 at 12:33 PM | PERMALINK

Interesting that the hospital photo of the victim does not show his right side, where the shots hit.

As a hunter I'm curious to know what gauge shotgun Cheney was using? That makes a difference. Also, how far away was the victim?

And didn't Cheney see the movie "Master and Commander?" A similar situation happened there, although it involved a musket ball and not shot pellets.

Bottom line is Cheney made a big mistake and it didn't get reported for a day.

Posted by: Tripp on February 13, 2006 at 12:42 PM | PERMALINK

EXCLUSIVE! Photo of Cheney Shooting Victim!

Hospital Photo

Posted by: nepeta on February 13, 2006 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINK

Hi,
Check out the latest Political Comics from H.L.

A Message From Dick Cheney &
Dick Cheney goes hunting

The Hollywood Liberal

Thank You

Posted by: Jack on February 13, 2006 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

sportsfan079 on February 13, 2006 at 11:13 AM:

2. (Most of the people on this board) Have never held a gun.

Hmmm. I'd like to see what percentage of all people have actually held and fired a gun outside of police/military personnel...

As for me, I don't hunt, but enjoy target practice, so you can lump me in to that 5% that you pulled out of your heinie...

I did go through a hunter's safety program back in jr. high that taught me the basics...Wonder if Cheney has had any sort of firearm safety training? Would be interesting to find out.

Posted by: grape_crush on February 13, 2006 at 12:57 PM | PERMALINK

Alright, reports say it was a 28 guage at 30 yards. That's pretty small and pretty far away. It doesn't let Cheney off the hook, but it does give some references.

The smallest shotgun I've used was a 20 gauge. Many goose and duck hunters use 12 gauge. Some even use 10 gauge, but that is really big.

The bigger the gauge the smaller the load.

I still don't think Cheney should have been shooting that low to the ground, and especially not after a quick turn.

Posted by: Tripp on February 13, 2006 at 12:58 PM | PERMALINK

Chalk me in the 5% that have held a gun and hunted. A 28 guage shotgun would not blow somebody back like a sawed off 10 guage in a movie. I've had shot rain down around me from over a hill, but the other hunter had shot into the air, could not see me, and was probably a couple hundred yards away.

Still, I've done some pheasant hunting in small groups of 3 or 4 and NONE of us has ever shot each other or the dogs. That is a really careless thing to do.

Posted by: Tripp on February 13, 2006 at 1:03 PM | PERMALINK

The bigger the gauge the smaller the load.

I'm sorry, are we still talking about hunting?

Posted by: Stefan on February 13, 2006 at 1:18 PM | PERMALINK

At least now Dick has "street cred" with rappers and gangstas.

Paraphrasing Shakespeare: "Wound all the lawyers, wound them tonight."

Posted by: MarkH on February 13, 2006 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

"Interesting that the hospital photo of the victim does not show his right side, where the shots hit." - Tripp

Uh, I think you might have missed the humor here.

Posted by: nepeta on February 13, 2006 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

Dear Ms. Sullivan:

re: The Headline

I think the Daily News, here in good ole New York City, topped it. Their headline today: "Cheney shoots pal; bird's fine."

Posted by: Lulu Pickle on February 13, 2006 at 1:30 PM | PERMALINK

Alright, reports say it was a 28 guage at 30 yards. That's pretty small and pretty far away

Thirty yards is the exact distance from home plate to first base.

How hard is it for the first baseman to see the batter? And how much closer could one typically get to any living target and inflict a fatal blow without them detecting you?

Posted by: frankly0 on February 13, 2006 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINK

Plus, we don't even wear ORANGE VESTS on base. I'm just sayin'.

Posted by: shortstop on February 13, 2006 at 1:46 PM | PERMALINK

frankly0,

I don't excuse what Cheney did, but a 28 gauge shotgun at 30 yards would probably not kill anyone. If it hit him full in the face he would lose his eyes unless he had eye protection. The pellets spread out some and lose their power fairly quickly. Each pellet is small, too.

I will reiterate - Cheney was stupid and cavelier but at least he wasn't using a very powerful weapon. I'd hate to see him with a nuclear weapon.

Posted by: Tripp on February 13, 2006 at 2:15 PM | PERMALINK

According to Mary Matalin, second only to Ann Coulter for adherence to the principles of fascism and blind loyalty to conservative tyrants, the goal in quail-hunting is to shoot one of your fellow hunters . . .

On the other hand, Mary Matalin told the WaPo: "The vice president was concerned. He felt badly, obviously. On the other hand, he was not careless or incautious or violate any of the [rules]. He didn't do anything he wasn't supposed to do."

Emphasis added.

Posted by: Advocate for God on February 13, 2006 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

But the major point here, sportsfan, is Cheney's cavalier attitude towards sportsmanship, his utter lack of respect for the conservation ethos of hunters, and his reckless disregard for the rules of firearm/hunter safety. --SombreroFallout

How do you know that Cheney's attitude toward sportsmanship is "cavalier"? He made a mistake, albeit an unfortunate and foolish one. I do not forgive his actions. But I try to be somewhat forbearant, given that I am not perfect, and could also make a mistake some day.

I am seeing a great, great, great many assertions made on this board about the circumstances, the people involved, the events surrounding the incident, all without verification. Even fake pictures and joke links. (I can't believe one liberal poster above actually thought they were real!)

I suspect that much or all of it is founded by nothing more than the lefties personal hatred of Cheney.

Posted by: sportsfan079 on February 13, 2006 at 2:30 PM | PERMALINK

According to Mary Matalin, second only to Ann Coulter for adherence to the principles of fascism and blind loyalty to conservative tyrants, the goal in quail-hunting is to shoot one of your fellow hunters . . .

Can I have a link to this please? I am very incredulous about this.

Posted by: sportsfan079 on February 13, 2006 at 2:33 PM | PERMALINK

"Cheney has killed fewer people with his guns than

with his policies. - Irony Man"

Find me a politician whose policy hasn't somehow killed somebody (Hi Clinton Kosovo.) and I'll find you a politician who isn't a politician.

Excellent reflexes, Brian - only 1.3 seconds before "But Clinton" came pouring out your mouth!

Man, you Repubs sure are a humorless bunch. Can't take a joke, can you.

But do ponder for a moment exactly why the jokes about Cheney are as funny as they are.

p.s. Keep up your moral relativism, it's quite flattering.

Posted by: Irony Man on February 13, 2006 at 2:40 PM | PERMALINK

This was preemptive, I assure you. No telling what this guy might do.

Posted by: barrelmonkeys on February 13, 2006 at 2:41 PM | PERMALINK

Irony Man, you've become a mini-hero on this thread for your earlier quip. You should quit while you're ahead.

Posted by: sportsfan079 on February 13, 2006 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

Pretty good burn, Irony Man.

Thanks. I try.

Posted by: Irony Man on February 13, 2006 at 2:43 PM | PERMALINK

DHS issues Code Red terrorist alert for Southwest US. Be on the lookout for bald guy wearing Size EEE shoes carrying shotgun.

Posted by: pj_in_jesusland on February 13, 2006 at 2:45 PM | PERMALINK

You should quit while you're ahead.

Awww, but my clock only reads 14m40s!

Posted by: Irony Man on February 13, 2006 at 2:45 PM | PERMALINK

sportsfan079:

Sure, my apologies for not immediately crediting the source, Josh Marshall, btw . . . got in too big a hurry to post it here.

Here's the link to Marshall's post reporting this.

Posted by: Advocate for God on February 13, 2006 at 2:50 PM | PERMALINK

Awww, but my clock only reads 14m40s!

Yeah, it's hard to get off the 'net when you've got work to do.

Speaking of work, I'm out. Later.

Posted by: sportsfan079 on February 13, 2006 at 2:50 PM | PERMALINK

But the major point here, sportsfan, is Cheney's cavalier attitude towards sportsmanship, his utter lack of respect for the conservation ethos of hunters, and his reckless disregard for the rules of firearm/hunter safety. --SombreroFallout

--sportsfan079 -- wrote:
"How do you know that Cheney's attitude toward sportsmanship is "cavalier"? He made a mistake, albeit an unfortunate and foolish one. I do not forgive his actions. But I try to be somewhat forbearant, given that I am not perfect, and could also make a mistake some day."

How do I know??

Did you actually MISS the reference to Cheney's "hunting" trip of December 2003, when he shot ~70 ring-necked pheasants over the course of just a few hours in a canned "hunt?"

That's not hunting.

That's not sporting.

And it openly displays an ignorance of the ethics of hunting, the ethics and principles of conservation, and any appreciation for either one.

Or any appreciation for the environment that sustains pheasants and quail. It also displays an arrogance and ignorance of the social rules -- legal and ethical -- that allow the rest of us reasonable access to sustainable game populations and healthy hunting grounds. It screams "Gimme Mine -- and fuc_ the rest of ya!"

So sportsfan079 -- Whaddya MEAN, how do I know? How'd YOU manage to miss the point??

Below is an excerpt from one of many articles on that canned "hunt" from back in Dec of 2003.

According to MSNBC,
"The increasingly low-profile V.P. was taken to Pittsburgh by Air Force Two earlier this week where his security detail loaded him and his favorite shotgun into a Humvee, and went to Rolling Rock Club in Ligonier Township, according to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. There, he and nine other hunting buddies shot at 500 ringneck pheasants, killing 417 of them. The V.P. was credited with offing 70 of the birds, as well as an unknown number of mallard ducks."

Excess? Gluttony? They surely aren't killing only what they need. They're not hunting for meat.

Posted by: SombreroFallout on February 13, 2006 at 2:52 PM | PERMALINK

sportsfan,

Unless Cheney admits his mistake then he is being cavalier of gun safety.

I've had people shoot over my head at a bird and then tell me "Don't worry, I knew I wouldn't hit you."

I won't hunt further with those people. If they say "I'm sorry, it was a mistake and it won't happen again" then I'll consider hunting with them although I'll try my darndest to stay behind them.

So what is Cheney's official response?

Posted by: Tripp on February 13, 2006 at 2:59 PM | PERMALINK

BTW, sportsfan079, the Matalin quote is on the second page of the WaPo article linked to by Marshall.

You conservatives truly do know how to turn a phrase.

And clearly its not just confined to Bush.

"Bushspeak" appears to infect a large number of conservative leaders.

I guess its kinda hard, though, for conservative leaders to actually say things correctly and accurately when they are constantly trying to rationalize away failure, incompetency, and immorality or just outright lie about the same.

Keeping it all straight is really, really hard when your primary purpose and policy, most often out of political "necessity" (the need to cover up one's own misdeeds in order to not lose electoral support), is to mislead.

Posted by: Advocate for God on February 13, 2006 at 3:04 PM | PERMALINK

My understanding of constitutional law is that the Vice President can basically shoot anyone he wants any time he wants to. So why all the fuss?

Posted by: Maynard on February 13, 2006 at 3:05 PM | PERMALINK

Hey Dick ? have you ever gone camping with a bunch of guys ,done some drinking,passed out . When oyu woke in the morning you were all greased up and you butt hurt? well... want to go camping?

Posted by: sticky on February 13, 2006 at 3:06 PM | PERMALINK

A hunter and commenter at Jane Hamsher's firedoglake.blogspot.com sums this up really well:

I think, as other have pointed out, that this is a microcosm of the whole administration:

1. Try to play tough, with a gun, or an army.

2. Fail to follow well-established rules, guidelines, and past experience (either out of ignorance or willful disregard, or both).

3. Get someone hurt or killed.

4. Try to keep the story under wraps for as long as possible.

5. When the story does come out, spin it so that there was no possible way the administration did anything wrong.

6. Blame someone else, where possible, blame the victim.

7. Make anyone who has a problem with it look like an un-American pussy.

Posted by: Stefan on February 13, 2006 at 3:16 PM | PERMALINK

BTW,

One of the truly inadvertently revealing aspects of this story is the utter deference in the Republicans to the landowner as if she is the high authority on all matters that take place on her property.

Really, how much like a medieval fiefdom can you get? The lord or lady of the manor is the ultimate authority on anything that happen on their own land?

Posted by: frankly0 on February 13, 2006 at 3:22 PM | PERMALINK

When I saw that photo of old Dick handling his shotgun, I was reminded of that video of Saddam before the masses with his rifle waving in the air.

Is it a coincidence? How many lawyers has Saddam gunned down, while chasing birds?

Posted by: Matt on February 13, 2006 at 3:25 PM | PERMALINK

In an actual democracy, with actual rule of the law, who is the property owner to speak with authority on the issues raised by what goes on on their property, when they clearly bring up larger legal questions?

Posted by: frankly0 on February 13, 2006 at 3:26 PM | PERMALINK

"..landowner as if she is the high authority on all matters that take place on her property."

I am reminded of a similiar plot in Gosford Park (2001):
Set in the 1930's the story takes place in an old fashioned English country house where a family has invited many of their friends up for a weekend shooting party.

I saw the movie, and can attest that someone attempted to shoot a lawyer while chasing foxes.

Posted by: Matt on February 13, 2006 at 3:30 PM | PERMALINK

Up until this incident I thought Cheney's incompetence was limited to politics, economics, military strategy and social policy, but I guess I was wrong.

Posted by: pj_in_jesusland on February 13, 2006 at 3:35 PM | PERMALINK

.. want to go camping?

I think that Harry had been camping with Dick. Get out your banjo.

Posted by: barrelmonkeys on February 13, 2006 at 3:56 PM | PERMALINK

Their headline today: "Cheney shoots pal; bird's fine."

Good one.

Actually, it's not at all clear that a bird was involved. All evidence seems to be suggesting that Cheney heard a noise, turned, and shot.

"Shoot before you look". He's done it before.

Posted by: JS on February 13, 2006 at 4:11 PM | PERMALINK

Best headlne:

CHENEY SHOOTS QUAIL EVERYONE ELSE DUCKS

I can't find it now, but I think it was in The Age from Australia.

Posted by: Steve High on February 13, 2006 at 4:20 PM | PERMALINK

One of the truly inadvertently revealing aspects of this story is the utter deference in the Republicans to the landowner as if she is the high authority on all matters that take place on her property.

Dude, I don't think they're really deferring to her; she's the designated Bush-faithful spokesperson so all these big tough outdoorsy men don't have to face the press. Not to mention the well-earned ridicule of the entire planet.

Posted by: shortstop on February 13, 2006 at 4:23 PM | PERMALINK

Day two of the war. How we doing? Any more lawyers shot?

Posted by: Matt on February 13, 2006 at 5:01 PM | PERMALINK

For a headline, how about: "Cheney Wings Lawyer; Quail Escape Unharmed."

Posted by: Doran Williams on February 13, 2006 at 5:25 PM | PERMALINK

"Dude, I don't think they're really deferring to her; she's the designated Bush-faithful spokesperson so all these big tough outdoorsy men don't have to face the press. Not to mention the well-earned ridicule of the entire planet."

I thought about this earlier. Here in Arkansas, when a man shoots someone, he doesn't send a woman out to explain why or how he did it. Maybe it's different in Texas.

Posted by: arkie on February 13, 2006 at 5:34 PM | PERMALINK

OK Advocate for God, I searched your link, and I didn't find anything even closely resembling the quote you attributed to Mary Matalin. And now I realize you are just intentionally misquoting, in an effort to further attack Cheney.

That's unfortunate.

To be totally honest with you, I read these threads, and often I think some points are pretty meaningful, even when I don't agree. At times like that, I want to find a common ground and see if I can build from it.

But unfortunately, much more often than that, I find that posters will say anything, anything, even outright lies and distortions, to impugn the President or Administration. That's when it seems hopeless to put in the effort.

Posted by: sportsfan079 on February 13, 2006 at 6:02 PM | PERMALINK

Sombrero: Obviously, Cheney is responsible - he pulled the trigger. My last paragraph notes his was one of the mistakes.

My only point with that part of the comment was that the guy who got shot (whose name I got wrong) did bear at least some of the responsibility as well - that accidents generally require two different mistakes. In this case different people made them. (Not infrequently there is a sole person who makes both, but not here.) I've never hunted, but I've spent a fair amount of time near hunters, (my outdoor hobby is birding) and so I know the rules regarding hunters - in hunting season, stay close to the road (it is illegal to hunt too close to a road), wear bright colors, and always be aware if there are hunters around. If they are, announce yourself or withdraw. (I prefer the latter, there are more places birds can be found than places hunting is allowed.) My perspective is obviously different from the hunter's, as the individual trying to avoid getting shot, rather than the one trying to avoid shooting a person. I wouldn't walk within 30 yards of someone with a shotgun, without being absolutely sure they know where I am. My real point was that I trust Katherine Armstrong's judgement in this AS AN EXPERT, not my own - she has probably spent more time hunting and thinking about hunting than everyone commenting here, combined. (Her honesty...I don't know. Her status as the landowner - if it were Joe (or Jane) Blow making the statement when it was on his or her ranch, I wouldn't put as much stock in it.)

Cheney hasn't historically proved himself much of a sportsman, and he tends to gamble with lives. (Pro or con, Iraq was a big roll of the dice, and it eminated from his priority list, not Bush's. I think it was the right gamble, but it WAS a gamble. This isn't the place for that conversation, though.) As for an apology, I suspect the public version is waiting for the victim to be able to stand next to him to waive it off as nothing. Cheney is just like that.

For that matter, I wouldn't want to hunt with anyone who has sought the Presidency or VP's office. By definition, that person is too overconfident (in general) to be trusted - that person thinks he is fit to rule the free world. That takes hubris, in the Greek sense of the word. It manifested in Ted Kennedy in the obvious incident, Kerry in the snowboarding incident, Gore with "no controlling legal authority" and "i invented the internet", Bush with his 1994 Killdeer fiasco, Cheney rather spectacularly with this. Kerry, at least, hasn't directly threatened anyone's life since it was his job to do so. Even Bush Sr. jumps out of perfectly functional airplanes.

I was among the R voting public who was annoyed that Bush didn't drop Cheney for 2004 in favor of someone who might actually be viable in 2008. Cheney has been a much worse VP than Bush has been a P - no small feat, that, considering how little is demanded of a VP.

Arkie: Cheney ain't no Texan. He was from Wyoming for years, and then moved to Dallas briefly before fleeing for DC. Wyoming isn't in Texas - hasn't been since 1845. Dallas, contrary to reputation, barely qualifies either.

Posted by: rvman on February 13, 2006 at 6:14 PM | PERMALINK

OK Advocate for God, I searched your link, and I didn't find anything even closely resembling the quote you attributed to Mary Matalin. And now I realize you are just intentionally misquoting, in an effort to further attack Cheney.

What??? How on Earth can you not find it? Here, I'll provide the link for you:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/12/AR2006021200524_2.html

The article is "Cheney Shoots Fellow Hunter in Texas Accident, Companion in Intensive Care With Upper-Body Wounds" By Shailagh Murray and Peter Baker, Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, February 13, 2006; Page A01, and the relevant quote (on page two of the Internet version) is:

"The vice president was concerned," said Mary Matalin, a Cheney adviser who spoke with him yesterday morning. "He felt badly, obviously. On the other hand, he was not careless or incautious or violate any of the [rules]. He didn't do anything he wasn't supposed to do."

Posted by: Stefan on February 13, 2006 at 6:21 PM | PERMALINK

By the way, sportsfan, I think you owe Advocate for God an apology for asserting that he was deliberately misquoting.

Posted by: Stefan on February 13, 2006 at 6:24 PM | PERMALINK

Well, the vice president does "feel badly." But I do not think that phrase means what Ms. Matalin thinks it means.

Posted by: shortstop on February 13, 2006 at 6:27 PM | PERMALINK

Borowitz on Cheney mishap:


CHENEY SAYS SHOOTING OF FELLOW HUNTER WAS BASED ON FAULTY INTELLIGENCE
Believed Shooting Victim Was Zawahiri, Veep Says

Vice President Dick Cheney revealed today that he shot a fellow hunter while on a quail hunting trip over the weekend because he believed the man was the fugitive terror mastermind Ayman al-Zawahiri.

Mr. Cheney acknowledged that the man he sprayed with pellets on Saturday was not al-Zawahiri but rather Harry Whittington, a 78-year-old millionaire lawyer from Austin, blaming the mix-up on "faulty intelligence."

"I believed I had credible intelligence that al-Zawahiri had infiltrated my hunting party in disguise with the intent of spraying me with pellets," Mr. Cheney told reporters. "Only after I shot Harry in the face and he shouted 'Cheney, you bastard' did I realize that this intelligence was faulty."

Moments after Mr. Cheney's assault on Mr. Whittington, Mr. al-Zawahiri appeared in a new videotape broadcast on al-Jazeera to announce that he was uninjured in the vice president's attack because, in his words, "I was in Pakistan."

An aide to the vice president said he believed that the American people would believe Mr. Cheney's version of events, but added, "If he was going to shoot any of his cronies right now it's a shame it wasn't Jack Abramoff."

At the White House, President George W. Bush defended his vice president's shooting of a fellow hunter, saying that the attack sent "a strong message to terrorists everywhere."

"The message is, if Dick Cheney is willing to shoot an innocent American citizen at point-blank range, imagine what he'll do to you," Mr. Bush said.

Elsewhere, aviator Steve Fossett completed his three-day journey around the globe, setting a world record for wasting both time and money.

Posted by: McVouty on February 13, 2006 at 6:33 PM | PERMALINK

All this hubbub over a hunting accident...and yes, it is an accident.

If Cheney really meant to shoot Whittington, he would have waterboarded him first. Sheesh.

Posted by: grape_crush on February 13, 2006 at 7:50 PM | PERMALINK

I haven't hunted in about 20 years but this is pretty much a non story. If one reads the actual circumstances it wasn't at all Cheney's fault. there are so many other things to fault Cheney for, but this is not one.

Posted by: steve on February 13, 2006 at 8:23 PM | PERMALINK

"Cheney has killed fewer people with his guns than with his policies. - Irony Man"

Irony Man, I think you have hit upon something. The question is not why Cheney shot a lawyer, the question is why doesn't he shoot a lot more of them.

Posted by: Matt on February 13, 2006 at 8:42 PM | PERMALINK

In a discussion upthread, I said last night: ...the Republican calls Rove and is told what to say. ...And I doubt very much that this Ms. Armstrong shot off her mouth without having been appropriately coached. From what I know, that's how the Republicans operate."

Today, the New York Times is reporting:

"Chief of Staff Andy Card called the president around 7:30 p.m. to inform him that there was a hunting accident," a statement released today by the White House said. "He did not know the vice president was involved at that time. Subsequent to the call, Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove spoke with Mrs. Armstrong.

The model works!

Posted by: JS on February 13, 2006 at 10:02 PM | PERMALINK

from the latest news, Mr Cheney did not have his 7.00 license, or the correct one for the type of hunting they were doing. then the hunting accident. i wonder, had it been a regular person this happened to, would they have been taken in by the police? any formal investigation? does anyone know the law on this one?

Posted by: dar on February 14, 2006 at 1:14 AM | PERMALINK

Yes. Here's the law. It's not about a silly license. It's about a felony committed, by Cheney.

TEXAS PENAL CODE

CHAPTER 22. ASSAULTIVE OFFENSES

22.05. DEADLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he recklessly engages in conduct that places another in imminent danger of serious bodily injury.
(b) A person commits an offense if he knowingly discharges a firearm at or in the direction of:
(1) one or more individuals; or
(2) a habitation, building, or vehicle and is reckless as to whether the habitation, building, or vehicle is occupied.
(c) Recklessness and danger are presumed if the actor knowingly pointed a firearm at or in the direction of another whether or not the actor believed the firearm to be loaded.
(d) For purposes of this section, "building," "habitation," and "vehicle" have the meanings assigned those terms by Section 30.01.
(e) An offense under Subsection (a) is a Class A misdemeanor. An offense under Subsection (b) is a felony of the third degree.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

Posted by: JimBob on February 14, 2006 at 2:20 AM | PERMALINK

This carries me back to when Jimmy Carter was hunting in the swamp and was attacked by the "killer rabbit." Carter was forced to defend himself with an oar.

Posted by: Michael L. Cook on February 14, 2006 at 10:01 AM | PERMALINK

rvman on Feb 13, 2006 at 6:14 PM |

I respect your comments re the hubris of those who would be King (VeeP).

But let me repeat: While TOO often in hunting accidents, the 'shootee' is in an 'unexpected' position, your generalized statement is incorrect. The vast majority of instances occur when the shooter is unaware of his surroundings, shoots without visually confirming his target, or engages in reckless conduct.

Let me say it another way. It is incorrect to say that most hunting accidents require two different mistakes. In the vast majority, only the shooter makes the mistake. And even when the victim is out of position, it's still the shooters mistake.

Further, Whittington was not out of position.

You are incorrect to say "the guy who got shot ... did bear at least some of the responsibility as well - that accidents generally require two different mistakes."

rvman, you may well "trust Katherine Armstrong's judgement in this AS AN EXPERT, not [your] own." But she is not trustworthy. In fact, she waited in the car, and still claims to say Whittington didn't alert Cheney. It's hardly likely she can make that claim -- and she has a vested interest. FURther, it's STILL Cheney's responsibility to be aware of fellow hunters' position as they retrieve a bird. Not Whittington's -- who was NOT out of position, but behind the fire zone.

Finally, you confuse hunters & nonhunters. You write:
"and so I know the rules regarding hunters - in hunting season, stay close to the road (it is illegal to hunt too close to a road), wear bright colors, and always be aware if there are hunters around."

You demonstrate about as much awareness of your surroundings as Cheney does.
1. Those are not the rules hunters follow. The responsibility is on the hunter, not his companions.
2. Donning plumage bright and gay, clinging to roadways as though it were a life preserver, and murmuring 'I say, good man, are there hunters about?' -- in the absence of responsible firearm handling -- is a recipe for tragedy.

Entrusting your continued existence to others' is foolhardy. What part about personal responsibility don't you understand?

FORgive the mockery, but what I say is deadly serious. I hunt. I don't think you take the rules you cite seriously -- though they are precautions to follow when you know where you are in the (physical & social) landscape. Absent that, and absent responsible gun-handling, it doesn't leave you with much.

But Mr. MaGoo-like obliviousness to the principle at stake here will not relieve you of the obligation to acknowledge what's going on here.

Personal responsibilty, according to Cheney, and according to you -- is for other people. Where's that conservative integrity when you need it?

Finally: Despite stories to the contrary, Al Gore DID draft & introduce the legislation that originally funded the Internet. He never said he invented it. Find even ONE original quote where he makes that claim.

Most GOP 'legislators' just let lobbyists draft the bills they introduce. HOw "responsible." Hardly conservative.

Posted by: SombreroFallout on February 14, 2006 at 10:36 AM | PERMALINK

"... Jimmy Carter was hunting in the swamp and was attacked by the "killer rabbit." Carter was forced to defend himself with an oar. "

With Cheney's heart, I do not think he could beat a lawyer to death with an oar.

Posted by: Matt on February 14, 2006 at 11:18 AM | PERMALINK

Dick Cheney has been on the front lines of this administrations proactive, hands on, pre-emptive fight against the wildfowl terrorist conspiracy to bring biological warfare to the shores of this great country under the liberal media guise of bird flu. Collateral damage is unfortunate but can be expected in a fight of this magnitude. Harry Whittington will be receiving a leftover Purple Heart Bandage.

Posted by: Larry on February 14, 2006 at 6:03 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

Read Jonathan Rowe remembrance and articles
Email Newsletter icon, E-mail Newsletter icon, Email List icon, E-mail List icon Sign up for Free News & Updates

Advertise in WM



buy from Amazon and
support the Monthly