Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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February 13, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

GOOD TERRORISTS AND BAD TERRORISTS....A year ago I wrote about the strange case of Luis Posada Carriles, a well-known terrorist who was, very reluctantly, taken into custody by the Bush administration after holding a series of press conferences in Miami last May.

Reluctantly? Yes. You see, Posada mostly restricts his terrorism to blowing up hotels in Havana and trying to assassinate Fidel Castro. He was also the mastermind of an Air Cubana bombing in 1976 that killed 73 people. Both Cuba and Venezuela have requested his extradition.

In a defense rich with irony, Posada has fought his extradition by claiming he is likely to be tortured if he's turned over to the Venezuelan authorities. The Bush administration didn't even bother arguing about it, so the only question remaining is whether Posada will be extradited to some other country or simply set free and the smart money is on setting him free. As it turns out, when the Bush administration says it's against terrorism, it means that it's only against the bad kind of terrorism.

Kevin Jon Heller at Opinio Juris has the whole story.

Kevin Drum 1:05 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (53)

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Comments

Are you saying these guys are hypocrites? Who only use the concept of "Terrorism!" to win elections, and otherwise don't give a shit?

Wow, who else knows about this?

Posted by: craigie on February 13, 2006 at 1:11 PM | PERMALINK

Set him loose. Maybe a Venezuelan hit squad will nail him. He won't be borught to justice otherwise.

Posted by: Jeff II on February 13, 2006 at 1:11 PM | PERMALINK

The complete blindness to the 40 years of supporting terrorist tactics to unseat Fidel, underscores one thing about the "Global War on Terrorism". There isn't one.

The Bush administration is continuing to fight a war against Terrorists who attacked us. Actually, no, a war against terrorists who we wanted to attack us.

And that's pretty clear to the rest of the world, they don't take the War on Terror seriously, because the US blatantly makes clear repeatedly that they don't care about really tackling the nasty tactic in any sort of consistent way.

And the Cuban example is very clear to Latin Americans. The US openly supports regimes that kill their own people - and has for years. Openly supports and help organize groups using terrorist tactics against Cuba, Nicarauga and other countries. And then the gringoes turn around and claim to be "Fighting Terrorism".

It's just a sad joke south of the border.

Posted by: Samuel Knight on February 13, 2006 at 1:12 PM | PERMALINK

As it turns out, when the Bush administration says it's against terrorism, it means that it's only against the bad kind of terrorism.

What a objectively stupid and inaccurate thing to say. Luis Posada Carriles is a FREEDOM FIGHTER trying to free Cubans from the tyranny and despotic dictatorship of Fidel Castro. Your moral equivalence between what Carriles has done with the murder of 4000 Americans in the World Trade Center by Al-Qaeda is so disgusting only a liberal could say it. But we already knew that.

Posted by: Al on February 13, 2006 at 1:13 PM | PERMALINK

Didn't know Venezuela had hit squads. It would be just like Chavez to prosecute this all in a strictly above-board fashion, all for the sake of embarrassing our Dear Leader.

Posted by: dr2chase on February 13, 2006 at 1:14 PM | PERMALINK

Well, Al is no longer claiming 5000 deaths on 9/11. Does this mean he can learn?

Posted by: Ace Franze on February 13, 2006 at 1:15 PM | PERMALINK

Not here that often. Quick question.

Is this guy "Al" serious, or is he being (as my English major kid is fond of saying lately) self-ironical?

Posted by: pdq on February 13, 2006 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK
In October, 1976, Posada masterminded the bombing of an Air Cubana flight from Barbados to Cuba, killing all 73 people aboard. A few days before the bombing, a reliable CIA source heard Posada say, [w]e are going to hit a Cuban airplane.

In 1998, Posada proudly told a New York Times reporter that he was responsible for a string of hotel bombings in Havana that killed an Italian businessman and wounded 11. It is sad someone is dead, he admitted. But we cant stop.

Why did the Bushies hesitate on this guy again?

Posted by: Windhorse on February 13, 2006 at 1:25 PM | PERMALINK

Can someone point me to what made Chavez evil incarnate?

And why am I supposed to hate that Aristide guy?

Posted by: ranaaurora on February 13, 2006 at 1:25 PM | PERMALINK

"He was also the mastermind of an Air Cubana bombing in 1976 that killed 73 people."

I'm guessing now, but I'm pretty sure some of those people were innocents. No amount of Bushista whitewash could ever cover up that evil stain -- no arguments about his motives or his heart being in the right place or his means justifying his ends or his righteous political leanings or "how the enemy of my enemy is my friend" or even whether he has so much as jaywalked since 1976. 73 people dead -- heck, that's more killing than Manson ever did. If they let him go, do we all get 73 freebies so long as the targets are Marxists, leftists, and their [innocent] comrades?

Can you tell I'm agitated?

--
HRlaughed

Posted by: HRlaughed on February 13, 2006 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

Luis Posada Carriles is a FREEDOM FIGHTER

If he'd only blown up more planes and hotels. Cuba would likely be free of that drab green bearded menace.

Posted by: ranaaurora on February 13, 2006 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

Can someone point me to what made Chavez evil incarnate?

And why am I supposed to hate that Aristide guy?

Cause President Bush says so.

He's asking you to trust him on this...

Posted by: pdq on February 13, 2006 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINK

Typical of liberal freedom-haters to get this all backwards. What the Carriles case shows is the danger of leaving the War on Terror to unelected judges: according to the Opinio Juris post linked here, his extradition to Venezuela was blocked by an immigration judge, based on the threat of torture. Just think about what would happen if we let these judges make decisions about real terrorists! Better to leave it up to the hard-working folks at the NSA.

Posted by: Charlie Murtaugh on February 13, 2006 at 1:32 PM | PERMALINK

The last thing Chavez wants is Carriles' extradition. Its much better to keep hammering away at US hypocrisy. It is ironic that compared to other western democratic leaders Chavez is a thug, but Bush's inconsistencies and expediencies merely make Chavez look quaint.

Posted by: cynical joe on February 13, 2006 at 1:34 PM | PERMALINK

ypical of liberal freedom-haters to get this all backwards. What the Carriles case shows is the danger of leaving the War on Terror to unelected judges: Posted by: Charlie Murtaugh

Yes. It's much better to let unelected administration take the lead.

Posted by: Jeff II on February 13, 2006 at 1:37 PM | PERMALINK

Is this guy "Al" serious, or is he being (as my English major kid is fond of saying lately) self-ironical?

Neither. "Al" is a piece of ssssssoftware that just comes in here and spouts talking point nonsense, that is meant to look intelligent. Probably it's the NSA computer just getting out for some air.

Posted by: craigie on February 13, 2006 at 1:45 PM | PERMALINK

If you guys could shelve the snark for a minute or two, I think you would probably agree turning someone over to Fidel or Hugo is not going to result in a fair trial. Why not turn him over to the Europeans at the ICC and let them deal with him?

Posted by: wks on February 13, 2006 at 1:50 PM | PERMALINK

wks, and turing over someone in iraq or the WOT to the U.S. govt. would result in a fair trial?

Posted by: GOD on February 13, 2006 at 1:59 PM | PERMALINK

If you guys could shelve the snark for a minute or two, I think you would probably agree turning someone over to Fidel or Hugo is not going to result in a fair trial. Why not turn him over to the Europeans at the ICC and let them deal with him?
Posted by: wks

Or the Canadians. Given it was their plane, I would assume they have some jurisdiction. Still, having a foreign scum like that rubbed out by a foreign power is so much easier for everyone involved.

Posted by: Jeff II on February 13, 2006 at 2:00 PM | PERMALINK

If you guys could shelve the snark for a minute or two, I think you would probably agree turning someone over to Fidel or Hugo is not going to result in a fair trial. Why not turn him over to the Europeans at the ICC and let them deal with him?

We do, though, turn people over to other countries where they can't get a fair trial and where they will be tortured, such as our "rendition" (read kidnap) program where we hand over suspects to such places as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan and Syria. So why is it not OK to hand over someone to Venezuela, but OK to hand someone over to Syria?

Posted by: Stefan on February 13, 2006 at 2:00 PM | PERMALINK

Why not turn him over to the Europeans at the ICC and let them deal with him?

An eminently reasonable second option to extraditing him back to Cuba.

Which is why it will never happen.

(Bush, send a anti-Castro plane bomber to the ICC?)

Surely you jest...

Posted by: pdq on February 13, 2006 at 2:02 PM | PERMALINK

I believe Posada-Carriles has already been tried and acquitted - twice - in Venezuela for the aforementioned crimes. Funny there's no mention of that anywhere in the linked post.

Com'on guys, no matter how hard you try, if you put the cart before the horse, you aint gonna get anywhere.

I think some of you commenters here ought be a little less insulated and read some of the Venezuelan blogs before you laud hugo chavez.

Dont let your hatred of all things Right and GW Bush cloud your judgement.

Posted by: Val Prieto on February 13, 2006 at 2:02 PM | PERMALINK

You go with the freedom fighters/terrorists you have, not the freedom fighters/terrrorists you wish you had

"...This is not a game." - Lorie Van Auken (2001.09.11 widow)

Posted by: daCascadian on February 13, 2006 at 2:04 PM | PERMALINK

The reason that Posada will go free is that he knows too much, having been associated with the CIA since the '60s. George W. Bush's father, particularly, is not anxious at all for Posada to start talking, which he has threatened to do. Bush Sr.'s association with the CIA goes back to the Bay of Pigs fiasco, so does Posada's.

Posted by: Chris Brown on February 13, 2006 at 2:06 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe Bush won't extradite him because under torture, he might reveal where he got his terrorist training (likely School of the Americas).

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on February 13, 2006 at 2:06 PM | PERMALINK

I believe Posada-Carriles has already been tried and acquitted - twice - in Venezuela for the aforementioned crimes. Posted by: Val Prieto

Yes, by the previous quasi-Fascist government. See, he was doing "God's work" then.

Posted by: Jeff II on February 13, 2006 at 2:07 PM | PERMALINK

I think some of you commenters here ought be a little less insulated and read some of the Venezuelan blogs before you laud hugo chavez.

Please point out where any commenter here "lauds" Hugo Chavez.

Posted by: Stefan on February 13, 2006 at 2:09 PM | PERMALINK

George W. Bush's father, particularly, is not anxious at all for Posada to start talking, which he has threatened to do. Bush Sr.'s association with the CIA goes back to the Bay of Pigs fiasco, so does Posada's. Posted by: Chris Brown

Maybe he could be cellmates with Noreiga?

Posted by: Jeff II on February 13, 2006 at 2:12 PM | PERMALINK

Val Prieto: I believe Posada-Carriles has already been tried and acquitted - twice - in Venezuela for the aforementioned crimes. Funny there's no mention of that anywhere in the linked post.


Probably because he hasn't been acquitted even once, but don't let facts cloud your judgement.........

Posted by: Tony on February 13, 2006 at 2:14 PM | PERMALINK

so, all 73 people on that plane were bad bad supporters and henchmen of Castro?

NO?
Even ONE murder is enough to put anyone away for life.

WTF!!!????

I didn't think I could hate these people more.

Posted by: lilybart on February 13, 2006 at 2:14 PM | PERMALINK

Why not turn him over to the Europeans at the ICC and let them deal with him?

Because Bushco doesn't believe in the ICC.

How fair a trial does it have to be for someone who admits in the NYTimes to blowing people up in hotels?

I am a rule-of-law gal, but come on!

Posted by: lilybart on February 13, 2006 at 2:19 PM | PERMALINK

I believe Posada-Carriles has already been tried and acquitted - twice - in Venezuela for the aforementioned crimes. Funny there's no mention of that anywhere in the linked post.

Umm.. that's because it's not true.

On August 25, 1977, Judge Delia Estava Moreno referred the case to a military tribunal, charging all four co-conspirators with treason. (Treason? Huh?)

In September 1980, a Venezuelan military judge acquitted all four men. The prosecutor appealed, arguing that a military court was the wrong forum to try the case for two reasons: none of the men were military personnel in 1976, and the crime of qualified homicide or aggravated homicide cannot be tried by a military tribunal.

The Military Court of Appeals agreed and surrendered jurisdiction, rendering the acquittal moot. The Judge ruled that the accused "are civilians and the crimes imputed to them are governed by the penal (and not the military) code... Civilians and common law crimes are not subject to the dispositions of the Code of Military Justice..."

Posada escaped from the San Juan de los Morros penitentiary on the eve of the pronouncement of his [subsequent] sentence. The court issued an arrest warrant against him which is still pending as of November 2005.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubana_Flight_455

Posted by: pdq on February 13, 2006 at 2:20 PM | PERMALINK

Let's not forget that Orlando Bosch, Carriles' co-conspirator in the Cubana bombing and mastermind in more than 30 separate terrorist attacks (according to the FBI) was pardoned by Bush's father over the strenuous objection of his own Justice Department. Bosch earned his pardon by helping Jeb Bush consistently deliver the Cuban-American vote for the Republican Party.

With all of Bush's tough talk about "those who harbor the terrorists are just as guilty as the terrorists themselves," I cannot believe that Bosch hasn't been the subject of more media scrutiny.

Posted by: Ray Winninger on February 13, 2006 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

"Funny there's no mention of that anywhere in the linked post."

As the author of the linked post, I would point out that I did, in fact, write the following:

"Posada had been acquitted of that charge by a Venezuelan military court in the mid-1980s, but a higher military court overturned the acquittal, ruling that Posada should have been tried in civilian court. Posada then escaped from a Venezuelan jail before the retrial."

Posted by: Kevin Jon Heller on February 13, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

Even ONE murder is enough to put anyone away for life.
Posted by: lilybart on February 13, 2006 at 2:14 PM | PERMALINK

Naw. that's what they call "collatoral damage".

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on February 13, 2006 at 2:27 PM | PERMALINK

With all of Bush's tough talk about "those who harbor the terrorists are just as guilty as the terrorists themselves," I cannot believe that Bosch hasn't been the subject of more media scrutiny.
Posted by: Ray Winninger on February 13, 2006 at 2:23 PM | PERMALIN

Oh, that's easy!

Pakistan's Mushtarraf is effectively harboring Bin Laden (by preventing US troops from hunting this fucker down). Pakistan's Musharraf is protecting AQ Khan, who sold Iran the technology they need to build atomic bombs.

Then we sold him some F-16's.

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on February 13, 2006 at 2:31 PM | PERMALINK

Well, of course, Kevin.

The Right supported Saddam for years, even after he started gassing the Kurds.

They supported the Taliban for years, including their terrorist activites.

They supported a murderous Shah.

They supported a drug-dealing and murderous Noriega.

They supported a murderous Pinochet.

They supported apartheid and all the torture and murder that went along with it.

They supported the rape and murder of nuns, because those nuns were viewed as their enemy.

They've supported the mass murder of Chechnyans by Putin.

They supported the Contra terrorists.

They supported terrorists in Haiti that overthrew a democratically-elected government - twice!

Why would they hesitate to support a terrorist like Carriles.

Posted by: Advocate for God on February 13, 2006 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINK

Bushco could just drop this guy off inside of Canada and let him claim Refugee Status. The Canadian system would allow him to stay there for about 30 years with appeals and by that time Bushco will have looted the world.

Posted by: murmeister on February 13, 2006 at 3:01 PM | PERMALINK

Windhorse on February 13, 2006 at 1:25 PM:

Why did the Bushies hesitate on this guy again?

Possibly because he says that his actions are supported by Florida's anti-Castro Cuban community, and Dubya needed the votes in 2004. From the WaPo:

President Bush, whose Cuba policies have stirred anger among Cuban Americans in Florida, will hold a campaign rally in Miami today. The Cuban American vote was crucial to Bush's 537-vote margin in Florida in 2000, and his political advisers have worried that poor turnout among Cuban Americans could swing the state to Democrat John F. Kerry.

And there are probably other reasons as well.

Posted by: grape_crush on February 13, 2006 at 3:05 PM | PERMALINK

Dead on correct, Kevin. A number of writers, Noam Chomsky and Robert Parry to name two, have pointed out how the Bush family has never really been opposed to terrorism. Don't forget the secret sales of Hawk missiles to Iran in the mid-1980s (do you suppose they will be shooting them back at us, as we bomb their nuclear facilities?) by the Reagan Administration. Poppy Bush was deeply involved in that effort, according to Lawrence Walsh in Firewall. Then, the proceeds from that lovely little episode were used to fund the Contras, who were really just a group of terrorists. If you don't believe me, read Parry's Lost History for some of the sordid details of the Contra's crimes against humanity (e.g. shooting unarmed farmers off tractors so the crops would fail, blowing up hospitals, raping nuns, etc.). I'm sure our right-wing friends will say the Boland Amendment was unConstitutional, yada, yada, yada. However, it was illegal under the Arms Export Control Act and the simple legal fact that it constituted stealing government property.

The Bush family has also been cozy with other terrorists and terror-linked individuals, including the bin Laden family, Mobutu Sese Seko, Sun Myung Moon, Allende in Chile, etc. etc.

As I have said many times on this forum: Talk is cheap to these people...

Posted by: Stephen Kriz on February 13, 2006 at 3:25 PM | PERMALINK

Most, a lot, many Americans are too stoopid to understand a situation like this. If America does terrorism it is for freedom. When someone whose America's elites do not like does terrorism, it threatens the end of civilization, and no expense for Haliburton's profits should be spared eliminating it.

Posted by: Hositle on February 13, 2006 at 3:42 PM | PERMALINK

Hositle >"...When someone whose America's elites do not like does terrorism, it threatens the end of civilization, and no expense for Haliburton's profits should be spared eliminating it."

Well, yah

It is offically called National Economic Security (check out federal "law")

"The human race has one really effective weapon, and that is laughter." - Mark Twain

Posted by: daCascadian on February 13, 2006 at 5:40 PM | PERMALINK

Where did Val Prieto go?

Posted by: ranaaurora on February 13, 2006 at 6:20 PM | PERMALINK

Stephen Kriz
I find it hard to believe the Bush family was ever cozy with Allende in Chile, and I cant recall him being implicated in terrorist activity.
But General Pinochet now that an other story...

Posted by: eric on February 13, 2006 at 7:33 PM | PERMALINK
Pakistan's Mushtarraf is effectively harboring Bin Laden (by preventing US troops from hunting this fucker down). Pakistan's Musharraf is protecting AQ Khan, who sold Iran the technology they need to build atomic bombs.

Well, that's because AQ Khan didn't sell the technology to Iran, Pakistan's government did; the cooperation between Pakistan, North Korea, and Iran on nuclear weapons and delivery systems is about as secret as Israel's nuclear arsenal.

Khan is the public scapegoat for what was Pakistani government policy, so that Pakistan could pretend to "catch" him, claim that the "rogue" policy was ended, so that the US government didn't look as bad (mostly, to their own public -- its not fooling any foreign government) jumping into bed with them.

Posted by: cmdicely on February 13, 2006 at 8:59 PM | PERMALINK

Eric:

My bad, I meant Pinochet. Add Noriega, the Shah of Iran et al

cmdicely:

You are dead wrong. A.Q. Khan is the one individual the Bushies have justification for torturing, as he did sell centrifuges and plans for nuclear weapons to Iran. Why we are playing pattycake with Pakistan is beyond me. Pakistan is far and away the most dangerous country on this planet. We are one bullet away from having a country full of radical Islamic wackjobs armed to the teeth with nukes and Dubya thinks they are our buddies. Not to mention the fact that they are harboring bin Laden and Zawahiri.

Bush's relationship with Pakistan is Exhibit #1 in demonstrating what a piss poor risk assessor this buffoon is.....

Posted by: Stephen Kriz on February 13, 2006 at 10:53 PM | PERMALINK

Compliments to you for mentioning this story, Kevin. It has gone unnoticed (euphemism for suppressed) in the mainstream press.

It seems it's ok to blow up civilians, if you're a right wing terrorist.

You no doubt recall how the Contras - who were created and paid for by our tax dollars to blow up and terrorize civilians in the Nicaraguan countryside - were called by Reagan "the moral equivalent of the Founding Fathers."

If that's true, then Osama was the moral equivalent of Paul Revere.

Posted by: baked potato on February 13, 2006 at 11:55 PM | PERMALINK

What a objectively stupid and inaccurate thing to say. Luis Posada Carriles is a FREEDOM FIGHTER trying to free Cubans from the tyranny and despotic dictatorship of Fidel Castro. Your moral equivalence between what Carriles has done with the murder of 4000 Americans in the World Trade Center by Al-Qaeda is so disgusting only a liberal could say it. But we already knew that.

Ah okay, so the terrorists responsible for 9/11, the London/Madrid bombings etc are actually 'FREEDOM FIGHTERS' trying to free the Middle East from the tyranny and moral corruption of US foreign policy?

Thanks for enlightning us.

I guess being a freedom fighter or terrorist depends entirely on one's perspective.
But whose perspective is right and who is wrong?

Posted by: John on February 14, 2006 at 3:25 AM | PERMALINK

Posada may well be a CIA agent...

Posted by: E. Nonee Moose on February 14, 2006 at 7:12 AM | PERMALINK

The extent to which a few thousand ultra-right Cubans, presumably ardent supporters of that well-known patron of Democracy, Juan Bastista, have been able to leverage their relatively paltry numbers into gross distortions of our immigration laws, trade relations and electoral politics for 40 years is a genuine on-going scandal.

'Wet foot- dry foot"?

WTF?

Posted by: CFShep on February 14, 2006 at 8:25 AM | PERMALINK
You are dead wrong. A.Q. Khan is the one individual the Bushies have justification for torturing, as he did sell centrifuges and plans for nuclear weapons to Iran. Why we are playing pattycake with Pakistan is beyond me. Pakistan is far and away the most dangerous country on this planet. We are one bullet away from having a country full of radical Islamic wackjobs armed to the teeth with nukes and Dubya thinks they are our buddies. Not to mention the fact that they are harboring bin Laden and Zawahiri.

Bush's relationship with Pakistan is Exhibit #1 in demonstrating what a piss poor risk assessor this buffoon is.....

How am I dead wrong? All I'm saying is that A.Q. Khan wasn't, as Musharraf and Bush pretend, a rogue acting on his own, but someone implementing the policy of the Pakistani government. Do you disagree with that?

Posted by: cmdicely on February 14, 2006 at 3:13 PM | PERMALINK

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