At this point I doubt even his partisans would say Cheney isn't a Major League A..H..., big time. The man is constitutionally (in the physical, not legal, sense) incapable of apologies.

"Shoot first and, refuse to answer questions later"

They. Don't. Care. What. You. Think.

They. Don't. Answer. Questions. From. The. Media.

They. Tell. The. Media. What. To. Say.

They. Have. Been. Very. Very. Successful. With. This. Strategy/Tactic. For. Six. Years.

They. See. No. Reason. To. Change. Their. MO. Now.

McClellen. And. Cheney. Are. Smirking. At. YOU.

Now, was that slow enough to comprehend?

Cranky

Obviously Cheney is still distraught about missing that quail.

***What on earth is he thinking?****

cheney: yeah....so i shot him...what are you going to do about it....that's what i thought..

There's still nothing from the man himself, but a few minutes ago the VP's office finally issued a terse and bureaucratic statement saying that Cheney had been passed a note about Harry Whittington's heart attack and "stood ready to assist."

Ready to assist how, with a mercy killing? He's standing by to put Whittington out of his misery? Or perhaps he's planning on sending a video of whittington to Frist so the doctor can make another one of his famous video diagnoses?

Well, while he stays silent and lets us think he's callous and insensitive, other prominent Republicans speak up and remove all doubt:

BEGIN QUOTE
[Scott McClellan] quipped Tuesday that the burnt orange school colors of the University of Texas championship football team that was visiting the White House shouldn't be confused for hunter's safety wear.

"The orange that they're wearing is not because they're concerned that the vice president may be there," joked White House press secretary Scott McClellan, following the lead of late-night television comedians. "That's why I'm wearing it."

The president's brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, took a similar jab after slapping an orange sticker on his chest from the Florida Farm Bureau that read, "No Farmers, No Food."

"I'm a little concerned that Dick Cheney is going to walk in," the governor cracked during an appearance in Tampa Monday.[END QUOTE]

Honor and dignity, baby. Honor and dignity. What a couple of scumbags.

Cheney has to keep up his asshole image to get people's minds off impeaching Dubya.

I guess Dick just got tired of being called a chickenhawk, and snapped.

Now that he's blooded, we all better watch out.

Although I'm sure nobody in the media would understand this (never mind Democratic politicians who live by the glycerin tear and quivering lip on camera), but sensitivity and caring are not indicated by the number of press conferences you give telling the media how sensitive and caring you are.

You don't know what Cheney is saying to Whittington and his family, or what he's doing to support them, which might, out here in the real world, be considered the normal gauge of caring.

I just heard that Cheney boasted that he would be the only high-ranking official to spend 8 years in the White House without having to give a press conference. Nice.

Now, what would happen if I shot someone in the face, blathered an empty apology, skipped town, and sent a eff-you check for $7 to cover my illegal hunting? This is becoming a bigger issue because of good ol' Dick. What a dick!

I hear that a newly created group calling itself Quail Hunt Veterans for Truth is preparing an ad claiming that Whittington's wounds were self-inflicted....

Ready to assist?

What, is he saying he's willing to lend a few volts from his pacemaker if necessary?

perhaps the goal is to keep this issue in the public eye as long as possible, to reinforce the image of Republicans as manly hunters (though rather inept ones). I doubt that this incident would lose the support of anyone who still liked Cheney anyway (after all of the other crap he's done).

I'll repost what I wrote from an earlier thread:

For comparison's sake, let's just imagine what Republican reaction would be if this were, say, 1998, and Vice President Gore, while on a secret weekend trip with a friend and two women not their wives, had gotten liquored up, shotgunned that friend in the chest, and then waited a day before reporting the offense. Let's extend the same kindness, courtesy, and benefit of the doubt to Cheney that Gore would have gotten from the Republicans if the situations were reversed....

He's reserving the right to remain silent. He's taking the fifth, since he's already exercised the second.

Yes, the silence does make him seem heartless, but it also reinforces a view I have long held about Cheney: he really does not seem to believe in the "consent of the governed" thing. Perhaps it's because he served as chief of staff to a president who was not elected, then served as a leader in the House even though he represented the least populous state in the Union, then became vice president to a president who lost the popular vote. Whatever the reason, Cheney does not seem to think that the public, or its elected representatives, have any role to play in the development or implementation of public policy. That's why he can set up an energy task force that meets in secret to set a national energy policy, or why he can brief--but not report to--congressional leaders about eavesdopping on domestic phone lines. He shot a guy? Why say anything?

Better to remain silent and be thought callous and insensitive than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

At this point I doubt even his partisans would say Cheney isn't a Major League A..H..., big time. The man is constitutionally (in the physical, not legal, sense) incapable of apologies.
Posted by: rvman on February 14, 2006 at 3:26 PM | PERMALINK

Among that magical 39% hardcore supporters, this is actually a PLUS. The more he stonewalls, says "go fuck yourselves", the more evil he acts, the happier they are. It's all about Liberal-baiting. That's what makes them happy, that's what gets them off. That's been the Rove strategy from day one.

Does the White House think that reinforcing the VP's "Darth Cheney" image is helpful in some way?

apparently, yes. but only Jebus knows why.

Stefan, I play this imaginary game with all kinds of GOP misbehavior. It's really, truly amazing that this double standard
1) exists
2) is so obvious
3) exists

Honestly, by now Gore would be tied to a rock and sinking to the bottom of the Pacific. But Darth Cheney just sails majestically on. Again, GOP supporters seem to have no boundaries whatsoever. Anything the Golden Child and his administration want to do, or not do, is hunky dory with them.

Meanwhile, look over there! A liberal! Stone him!

...and "stood ready to assist."

Mr. Vice President, thanks. You've done enough already. Mind if we hold the gun for you? And the country?

Kevin wrote: Does the White House think that reinforcing the VP's "Darth Cheney" image is helpful in some way?

It's not an "image".

You don't know what Cheney is saying to Whittington and his family, or what he's doing to support them, which might, out here in the real world, be considered the normal gauge of caring.

Oh, I think we have a pretty good idea about what he's saying: "You breathe a fucking word about what really happened and I'll drag your miserable body back out to the fields and finish you off, you got that? Now everyone just stay nice and quiet and no one needs to get hurt."

Has anyone checked to see if Cheney's mouth is loaded?

We wouldn't want him shooting it off during his talk and getting the truth injured, again.

Maybe Cheney shot the guy because hie vision was impaired by the helmet and the heavy breathing...

The coverup: first Cheney fails for something like 10 hours to inform the White House that he was the shooter. Undoubtedly, he was furiously trying to figure out a way to keep it under wraps forever.

Then he managed to supress the fact that the guy was shot in the heart (among other places). Actually, they now claim the shot "migrated" to his heart, but from where, I'd like to know.

Anyone able to find out how much Cheney had to drink that day? (seriously)

You don't know what Cheney is saying to Whittington and his family, or what he's doing to support them, which might, out here in the real world, be considered the normal gauge of caring.

Welcome to the world of tbrosz:

"Normal": just sitting down to dinner after you shot a 78 year-old man in the face with a shotgun.

"Normal": not allowing the police to interview you about the incident until the day after. [You know - gotta get our story straight, after all, like how we somehow a 28 gauge shotgun lodged 200 pellets in a man from 30 yards away. Right.]

"Normal": never appearing in front of the press to take personal responsibility, much less apologize.

Man, tbrosz - it must take real effort to be as gargantuan an asshole as you are.

How do any of you know that Cheney has not apologized profusely to Whittington and Wittington's family? Indeed, it is almost a 100% certainty that he has done so.

You underestimate the power of the Dark Side . . .

I find your lack of faith disturbing . . .

There are some discrepancies in the reporting, Talon News' Jeff Gannon's headline is "Dick Unloads On Friend's Face"

You don't know what Cheney is saying to Whittington and his family, or what he's doing to support them, which might, out here in the real world, be considered the normal gauge of caring.

Welcome to the world of tbrosz:

"Normal": just sitting down to dinner after you shot a 78 year-old man in the face with a shotgun.

"Normal": not allowing the police to interview you about the incident until the day after. [You know - gotta get our story straight, after all, like how we somehow a 28 gauge shotgun lodged 200 pellets in a man from 30 yards away. Right.]

"Normal": never appearing in front of the press to take personal responsibility, much less apologize.

Man, tbrosz - it must take real effort to be as gargantuan an asshole as you are.

KPatrick:

To be fair, those quips came before Whittington took a turn for the worse. And I really don't see a problem with them. After all, there's been no shortage of jokes from us subversives.

Good Lord, this is a completely ginned-up issue. People are looking at the furious White House press corps like, "what's WRONG with these guys?"

It's not like Cheney did something that affects America or the electorate.

It's the press trying to nail him on something. Anything. Even if they have to generate the controversy out of nothing.

How do a few pellets that supposedly barely penetrated the skin...y'know, that bird-shot stuff...end up entering his heart? Anyone with any Med. knowledge wanna chime in here?

Cranky has it right. There is nothing but absolute contempt for the media and the public. I hope this victim has family who are going to sue the ass off of the Big C.

About Cheney's hypothetical private apologies: So fucking what? His attack dogs are out in force, claiming that it's Whittington's fault for having been shot. A stand-up guy would take responsibility for what he's done and correct the public record, rather than having the victim be blamed by his supporters.

tbrosz: It's not like Cheney did something that affects America or the electorate.

Like getting a blow job?

tbrosz: You don't know what Cheney is saying to Whittington and his family, or what he's doing to support them, which might, out here in the real world, be considered the normal gauge of caring.

You don't know either. So you make stuff up about what a lovely, sweet, caring person Cheney is, "supporting" Whittington and his family.

truwest;
Awesome. You da man.

How do any of you know that Cheney has not apologized profusely to Whittington and Wittington's family? Indeed, it is almost a 100% certainty that he has done so.

Of course it's entirely possible - but that's not the argument here. A public figure like Cheney should issue a public apology and a public expression of regret. It's a no-brainer.

I respect Cheney's silence, for he is paying his respect to Aaron Burr.

Cheney is like the olympic athelete who has just performed, and is awaiting news of either gold or silver medal. He is gonna be quiet, modest, until the judges rule.

Hrm. Just a question -- what happens if the guy dies from the shotgun wound?

Would Cheney get charged with manslaughter, negligant homicide, or something like that?

It's the press trying to nail him on something. Anything. Even if they have to generate the controversy out of nothing.

As I said above, I'm sure if Vice President Al Gore had drunkenly shotgunned a senior citizen in the chest from about fifteen feet away that Flanders would be saying the exact same thing....

It's not like Cheney did something that affects America or the electorate.

Yeah! It's not like he got a blowjob or anything! It's only reckless and depraved indifference to human life!

Yeah, tbrosz, like a blow-job. Except that nobody was injured by the blowjob.

Rove is truly brilliant. This is W's insurance. Impeach W and look what you get!

At this point, it's not about what Cheney may or may not have said to the victim. BUT, it's about what the American public expects.

The 39% might expect him to cling to his silence as Heston clings to his shotgun, but the rest of us may want to hear an apology (at least an empty one). That's only if he's interested in what the rest of us think, and he doesn't, so that's that I guess...

2 years, 8 months, couple days... Ahhh...

To be fair, those quips came before Whittington took a turn for the worse. And I really don't see a problem with them. After all, there's been no shortage of jokes from us subversives.

Yeah, but here's the crucial difference: the very people in the WH who decided to make jokes out of the incident ALSO knew the real extent of the man's injuries, and that he was NOT just "peppered" with birdshot that looked like "chicken pox".

"...and "stood ready to assist."

I will vote for that, just old Dick back down there with another load of buckshot and finish the job.

But, isn't that cheating? Aaron only got one shot.

Would Cheney get charged with manslaughter, negligant homicide, or something like that?

Medal of Freedom

tbrosz: It's not like Cheney did something that affects America or the electorate.

Yeah, it's not like he lied repeatedly to the American people about nonexistent Iraqi nuclear weapons programs and nonexistent connections between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda in order to terrify the public and intimidate the Congress into supporting an illegal war of unprovoked aggression which has killed tens of thousands of innocent people while enriching Cheney and his war-profiteer cronies, pressured and ignored the CIA when it didn't support his lies, and led a conspiracy to discredit a former US ambassador who exposed his lies by exposing the ambassador's wife as a covert CIA operative.

I'm sure if Cheney did something like that, you would be really upset with him.

Unless, of course, he and Bush had bought you off with a tax cut. Then you'd defend any and every evil or stupid thing they do.

It's the press trying to nail him on something. Anything. Even if they have to generate the controversy out of nothing.

Right. I mean, Cheney observed all the rules of safe hunting, he reported this incident minutes after it happened, he allowed himself to be interviewed by sheriff's deputies the same afternoon, he's made a public apology and he has also publicly remonstrated with those who would blame Whittington. The guy's done everything right--what do you liberals want?

Rove is truly brilliant. This is W's insurance. Impeach W and look what you get!

I believe Nixon was heard saying this very thing about Spiro Agnew on WH tapes of 1972 or so.

I wonder if they are going to use this as the excuse to have Cheney resign and install McCain or Rice. They are just buying time to work out the details...

"Now everyone just stay nice and quiet and no one needs to get hurt."

Uh, it's a little late for that, isn't it?

How do a few pellets that supposedly barely penetrated the skin...y'know, that bird-shot stuff...end up entering his heart? Anyone with any Med. knowledge wanna chime in here?
Posted by: johnni on February 14, 2006 at 3:43 PM | PERMALINK

Speculate all you want. Neither side here in this blog has anything resembling close to the real, whole, unadulterated story.

The guy could be dead already, as I jokingly speculated, or he may not have had a heart attack, or the heart attack may have been caused by the treatment (the wrong combination of sedatives, steroids, antibiotics, and coagulents), or a pellet fragment may have nicked an arterey and gotten inside the blood stream - or Cheney could just have whispered "breathe a word of what really happened to ANYONE and your kids will find their way to Baghdad" to him, causing a heart attack. Any one of thousands of different things could have happened, and we don't know - because they don't want us to know. The media circus resulting from the lack of real information serves their political purposes. Hell, for all we know, there may have been no shooting, and the whole thing was staged by Rove to draw attention away from something else (like the Katrina hearings).

Cheney shot a man "while hunting". I am not a hunter, but friends who do hunt have always told me that the actual killing of the prey is only a small part of the hunt. Hunters stalk, read signs, understand the land they are hunting in, the various trails that the animals take, they learn calls, they do they stalk the animal, and if they have done this right, matched wits against a wild animal, they kill it. In other words, hunting has many components, only one of which is killing the animal. When you remove all of those components except the kill, you aren't hunting, you are just killing.
So, when the vice president rides in a truck to his shooting area and has tame birds released in front of him which he shoots, he isn't hunting, he is just killing. What we have here is a vice-president who thinks it is fun to get drunk and kill small animals. What a guy.

Waaahh! Waaahh! The media!! Mommy, the media!

It's a no-brainer.

So, apparently, are the people running PR on this.

Maybe Cheney was hunting rich white people for sport. The deadliest quarry of all...

Alek,

It may be good politics, but nothing more. In fact, I find such apologies, when not to The People themselves, to be tinged with insincerity. I suspect Cheney doesn't give a flying f*%k how the politics of this incident play out.

(never mind Democratic politicians who live by the glycerin tear and quivering lip on camera)

You write this shit just to torment me, don't you? Go on, show me one single example of this particular strawman, and I'll buy one of your rockets.

You know what?

As sceptical as I am of the Bush WH, and as burned as I've been in the past by them, I've got to confess that even I more or less accepted the story that the injuries were minor.

These people NEVER fail to disappoint, not even someone like me.

My cynicism just can't keep up. I guess I'm one of the slow ones, even this late in the game.

Cranky is correct. They don't give a crap what we think. The question is, will that approach work forever? I'm betting no, but it's hard to argue with what works.

When I first heard of the Cheney shooting, I thought that this was a prime time for VPOTUS to have a heart attack.

When, as a 17 yr old, I put my Dad's truck in a ditch my chest got so tight, I could not breath for hours. Say what you will, I bet the VP's stress level hit a new high when he saw his friend crumple to the ground.

Is he being significantly medicated to manage the stress, therefore being kept on ice? I know if I accidently shot some one, I would make a bee-line for some Z-bars, pronto.

Cleek: Medal of Freedom

Hah! Excellent!

After all, the September 18, 2001 Congressional Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) already implicitly authorizes Cheney to shoot anyone, anytime, anywhere.

One of two things. Either there's something they're hiding (e.g., Cheney was drinking) and they are afraid it'll come out in a press conference, or they have nothing about this incident to hide but are desperate to hide the fact that5 years in the White House, surrounded by sycophants, has made the already arrogant and self-righteous bastard into something truly uninaginable.

They're either afraid he's going to get caught lying, or afraid he's going to get caught acting completely batshit insane. It's sort of like the problem a defense attorney faces with a guilty or totally slimy client--do you put him on the stand or not? Clearly, Cheney's people are agreeing that he can't go on the stand.

Kevin: That it's better if the world thinks he's callous and insensitive? Or what?

Yes!! Don't you get it? Republicans understand that average Americans like their leaders to be tough, and if need be callous and insensitive. These are the manly values most Americans cherish. Everything liberals think of as a desirable quality -- nuanced thinking, sensitivity, tolerance, human rights for whoever is designated as the enemy, etc. -- are simply signs of weakness, feminine values that won't protect Americans and their stuff.

Remember when Cheney told Patrick Leahy "Fuck yourself"? Many liberals thought he was done for, that conservatives who are all for propriety would be upset. Ha! They thought he was just being a tough guy, and he just emasculated the wimpy Leahy. Republicans loved him even more. Now, see the liberals reaction: The Democratic party fires Paul Hackett, because among other things (as the NY Times reported) he made Democratic leaders nervous with his direct language -- at one point saying that the Republican party had been hijacked by religious extremists who he said, "aren't a whole lot different than Osama bin Laden." Ha! He had to be expelled because he was not sensitive and he insulted Republicans. Sherrod Brown, on the other hand, who never came close to winning any election in a heavily Republican district and is a total nonentity in Ohio politics, is the perfect Democratic candidate because he's so very sensitive and not at all callous like Hackett. Losers!!!!!

This is really hilarious. A bunch of wusses who would not know a shotgun from a broomstick are opining on the proper conduct after an accidental shooting during a hunting trip.

I think you guys and your allies in the press should keep hyperventilating about this until next November. First, you've got Howard Dean saying he would like to get a few votes from guys who own pickup trucks with confederate flags and gun racks. Then the entire Democratic Party and its press corps wing goes absolutely lunatic over a story that anyone who has ever been bird hunting knows was the fault of the guy who got shot.

I've been hit by pellets and hit people with pellets, always minor. The story I hear is that this fellow dropped out of the line you are always supposed to stay in when hunting with others and came up without warning the others that he had returned. It's a shame that he got hit and a worse shame that he may have had a heart attack as a result. The response from Cheney to the follow who was hurt is private and even David Gregory has no need to know.

This is another loser for Democrats so don't let me interrupt you. One more example of being out of touch with a huge segment of the population. It will help with the vegan vote though. Of course you've got that unless Nader runs again.

"tbrosz: It's not like Cheney did something that affects America or the electorate."

Well, other than trying to hide the fact that the entire incident atcually happened.

tbrosz said: (never mind Democratic politicians who live by the glycerin tear and quivering lip on camera)

and craigie responded: You write this shit just to torment me, don't you?

I believe I should be commended for my self-restraint in reading this latest best effort of tbrosz', considering responding and high-mindedly choosing not to do so.

Surely it's occurred to you that the cause of the accident was a cardiac event with Cheney.
Maybe he can't make a public appearance.
On the other hand, he is a huge asshole.. that's enough of an explanation.

Maybe Cheney was hunting rich white people for sport.

I think we have a winner.

Good Lord, this is a completely ginned-up issue. People are looking at the furious White House press corps like, "what's WRONG with these guys?"

It's not like Cheney did something that affects America or the electorate.

It's the press trying to nail him on something. Anything. Even if they have to generate the controversy out of nothing. Posted by: tbrosz

Lookee, T-Bone, 'ol Whitt croaks and Cheney could be charged with manslaughter 5/negligent homicide. All we need is one honest person out on that hunting "party" to spill the beans, and the whole thing unravels. It may anyway. Either way, Cheney would be made to resign.

The forensics on this will show that Whittington wasn't 30 yards away, but much closer.

It's as plain as day that Cheney is involved in a cover-up.

They wanted this thing to all go by unnoticed. They waited to tell the cops. They lied to the cops (saying it was a "pellet gun" that shot Whittington). They made sure the media got a story that was light-hearted -- "Whittington just got a few scrapes, he's fine, he was just 'peppered' by a pellet gun." They blamed the victim for coming up from behind and staying quiet -- in other words, they blamed the guy that got shot for doing exactly what he should have done.

Cheney did not have the proper permit to be hunting there. Cheney did not follow proper gun safety procedures. Cheney shot a man in the chest and face with a shotgun. Cheney's delay in reporting his accident makes it impossible to know if he was hunting after dark or drunk.

Cheney is remaining silent, and fellow Republicans are having some fun with it. Why? It's a strategy -- they desperately want this to go away. This situation is totally irrelevant to their government, but it's just the kind of easy-to-understand dishonesty that can kill someone politically.

They're scared shitless right now. Mockery is lethal to a politician -- they want to do nothing to make this story go on any longer. Stony silence will work in that respect, even if it proves the VP a complete asshole (in addition to a reckless jerk who does not understand gun safety).

Well, Marvin Fitzwater, Reagan's last press secretary, says that Cheney and the White House' handling of this has been indefensible.

He was also Bush' press secretary, and when he collapsed at Camp David in 1990, they had a press release out WHILE the helicopter was picking him up to go to the White House.

Fitzwater knows what the proper protocal is.

Tbrosz does not, except for defending King George at every turn.

Political comic from H.L.
Cheney visits his hunting buddy in the hospital

The Hollywood Liberal

There is also a giant list of political comics at
H.L.s Comic Features

shortstop -

So noted. As for myself, the 6-foot cardboard cutout of Tom is now in my office, ready for "peppering" whenever he strays into lazy stereotype territory.

(note to Tom's lawyers: just kidding. It's only 5 feet tall)

"So, when the vice president rides in a truck to his shooting area..."

Aaron rode a horse to the shooting, what's your point.

Look, maybe Cheney cheated a little, you know, turning and firing at the count of two rather than three. But he wasn't flagged by the seconds, so we have to let that stand.

MIke K,

Do you even begin to get the seriousness of having some birdshot being lodged in your HEART, for God's sake?

How are all you right wing tools possibly going to manage to trivialize this? What does it say about you people that you're so happy to do so?

This is now, without question, a serious business. When, if ever, will you finally get that?

RSA: A stand-up guy would take responsibility for what he's done and correct the public record, rather than having the victim be blamed by his supporters.

republicans are all about taking responsiblity until they actually have to take repsonsibilty for something that matters. like, y'kno, someone's life, or governing the country. see then they get to bitch about how no one takes responsiblity for themselves in this society anymore, and that's why we don't need SocSec, MCaid and the like. it's really quite mindfuckingly ingenious.

Mike K: I've been hit by pellets and hit people with pellets, always minor.

In fact, every time Mike K goes hunting he gets shot by his friends. At some point, you'd think he'd start to figure out that they're trying to tell him something....

Then he managed to supress the fact that the guy was shot in the heart (among other places). Actually, they now claim the shot "migrated" to his heart, but from where, I'd like to know.

Anything that gets into a blood vessel can end up in the heart; birdshot is small enough that it probably doesn't need to hit that big of a vessel for that to be a risk.

Maybe Cheney was hunting rich white people for sport. The deadliest quarry of all...
Posted by: rusrus on February 14, 2006 at 3:55 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah - where's our beloved Jesse Ventura when we need him? (Jesse addressed a hunting group, while governor of Minnesota, by telling them "until you've hunted man, you have not hunted."

"Cranky is correct. They don't give a crap what we think. The question is, will that approach work forever? I'm betting no, but it's hard to argue with what works.
Posted by: travis on February 14, 2006 at 3:57 PM | PERMALINK"

No. It's preciesely the opposite. It's everything that drives them. The only thing they stand for is anything that drives Liberals mad with rage. (or anything that they imagine drives Liberals mad with rage).

Now, see the liberals reaction: The Democratic party fires Paul Hackett, because among other things (as the NY Times reported) he made Democratic leaders nervous with his direct language --
Posted by: No Longer an Ohio Democrat on February 14, 2006 at 3:58 PM | PERMALINK

NLAOD gets it.

The Democrats have NOT learned their lessons from the previous 6 years of election losses. They are going to SOOOO get their asses kicked in November.

Cheney isn't saying anything because he doesn't have to. As a Slate article from December pointed out, since he isn't going to run for President himself, he doesn't have to care what the public thinks of him. He is hurting the administration with his conduct, but that's nothing new, and it's been obvious for a long time that there is no institutional control over his behavior. He does what he wants to, period.

Mike K will say anything.

Tell us, Mike, why it's such a trivial thing to have birdshot lodged in your heart. Tell us about all the times that happened to you and your good buddies, and you just had a big laugh over it while slugging down your beers in the hospital ICU.

Cheney was obviously drunk when he shot this guy.

That's the missing element.

If this man dies...what then?

Think about it.

Stefan,
Mike K. is typing from a script. Be nice, but don't expect the same from him while he's on the clock.

I've been hit by pellets and hit people with pellets, always minor. The story I hear is that this fellow dropped out of the line you are always supposed to stay in when hunting with others and came up without warning the others that he had returned. It's a shame that he got hit and a worse shame that he may have had a heart attack as a result. The response from Cheney to the follow who was hurt is private and even David Gregory has no need to know.

Mike, just shut up. This bullshit would not fool a third grader. A shotgun full of bird shot (28 guage) is not a "pellet gun." You've been peppered by falling shot (assuming you're not just straight-up lying about hunting). That is a 100% different thing than getting SHOT with said shotgun.

And have you even hunted quail -- want to guess what happens if you tell your partner, 30 yards from you, "hey, I'm over here!" Care to guess, you sage hunting genius? I'll tell you: you destroy the hunt. Quail are skittish bird.

You are completely full of shit. But what a surprise that is.

Mike K: A bunch of wusses who would not know a shotgun from a broomstick are opining on the proper conduct after an accidental shooting during a hunting trip.

Your worship of guns is a mental illness. I'm not impressed.

And what constitutes "proper conduct" by any individual responsible for causing any accident in which someone is hurt seriously enough to wind up in intensive care has nothing to do with knowing anything about guns, anyway.

Man, if you read only the conservative apologists on this board you'd think no one ever manages to go hunting without mowing down the whole party with buckshot. Considering the number of times they've all claimed to be shot it's a wonder any of them are still alive and/or not brain-dead....

Well, come to think of it....

The story I hear is that this fellow dropped out of the line you are always supposed to stay in when hunting with others and came up without warning the others that he had returned.

That's true. When your companions are stalking quail the proper procedure is to come up behind them, making as much noise as possible, and scream very loudly "I'm right behind you please don't shoot me oh God no no didn't you hear me I'm not a bird for fuck's sake please God no for the love of Goaarrrrrggggghhhhh!"

Mike K. is such an expert on everything. I can't wait til news comes out that Jeff Gannon gave Bush a rectal hemmorhage that needs surgery.
Mike will say "Hey, I do that with my buddies all the time.. um, psst.. Boss, i quit"

Mike K,

I think you sum up the basic character of conservatives. These are people who if they go hunting mostly shoot each other. I'm sure you and you're fellow Republicans have shot each other a great many times. However, basic competence in hunting involves shoot the prey, not your fellow hunters.

Stefan, let's do another comparison, you know for comparisons sake. Say a prominent Republican, politically active, family had a member of that family responsible for driving a car over a bridge subsequently killing a girl trapped in the car. Now that same individual notified no one of the accident until the following morning when of course it was much too late to even attempt a rescue of said woman. Now would this "republican" member of the family live his life in disgrace or rise to the top of the Republican party?

If Wittington lives, you'll get your public apology, a big press conference where Wittington will make some jokes, the two men will hug, and perhaps they'll call on Cogress to enact some sort of gun legislation (which of course it won't, which will allow GOPers to blame Dems for obstructionism).

Of course if he dies or falls comatose, you'll get some weeping and gentle but manly sobreity, but no real apology, as it might instigate a manslaughter or criminal negligence trial/investigation. Lots of "can't comment on that" or "it would be inappropriate for me to say..." and (probably) "how dare you ask me that, can't you see I'm mourning..." and so on.

But until Wittington's medical outcome becomes clear, you'll get nothing. It looks eerie to a Dem, but (politically) prudent to a Repub.

" . . . anyone who has ever been bird hunting knows was the fault of the guy who got shot."

Uh, no, Mike. Wrong. A hunter is responsible for the decision of when to pull the trigger. The fact that you believe otherwise shows that you're a liar, that you've never actually been hunting and that you don't even know the most basic facts about firearms. Clown.

Stefan: When your companions are stalking quail the proper procedure is to come up behind them, making as much noise as possible, and scream very loudly

When hunting with Dick Cheney, that is the correct procedure.

I won't speculate on whether there was any cover up because we will never know. But I am VERY concerned about what we tell the CHILDREN about VP Cheney shooting someone.

"A bunch of wusses who would not know a shotgun from a broomstick..."

Cheney's defense?

"I thought I had a broomstick in my hand!"

I think when hunting with Dick Cheney, the proper procedure is to shoot first, then announce yourself. (Just kidding, NSA guy).

tbrosz, it's a matter of character and ethics. Dick Cheney works for us. The least he can do is not act like an ass in public and display the requisite amount of honesty and openness we should expect from the most powerful members of goverment.

Now, explain to us why you support these guys?

Stefan: After all, the September 18, 2001 Congressional Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) already implicitly authorizes Cheney to shoot anyone, anytime, anywhere.

This keeps cracking me up. I also liked someone's contribution early yesterday along the lines of, "It's my understanding that the Constitution allows the VP to pretty much shoot anyone he wants, anytime he wants."

And marky's right--nice cut-and-paste, Mike K. Tip: This might have been more convincing if you'd posted it in a place where people are actually complaining about hunting itself, rather than about Cheney's drunken and incompetent approach to same.

You're not smart enough for the job they gave you, guy.

I'm sure Mike K would make good excuses for John Kerry if Kerry shot someone...

A (slight) variation on Tinfoil's point:

It always seemed possible that Cheney would be going well before the 2008 election, so that the Repubs could put somebody in who was more popular (hard to be less popular than Big Time) and have an "incumbent" running for the Presidency in '08. Say, Jeb! or George Allen, etc., etc.

The question for Karl has been: When should Big Time go? Before or after the '06 mid - terms? One variable has to be getting someone in who can plausibly deny responsibility for Iraq during the '08 campaign, so that would argue for appointing someone later rather than sooner.

This incident speeds up Big Time's going out the door to probably before the mid-terms; if Whittington doesn't make it -- and a lot of 78 year olds exposed to that kind of trauma won't make it -- BT could be out of office very soon.

"..what we tell the CHILDREN about VP Cheney shooting someone."

How about telling it as a punchline?

Three men were going hunting, a VP, a lawyer, and a Arab terrorist....."

Cheney and Wittington played brokeback cowboy the night before. The next day Wittington tells Cheney he doesn't lovee him and is going back to his wife.
Cheney shoots Wittington in a fit of jealous rage and then Rove spins the hole quail hunting story.

These folks are fond of saying, "We will not comment on this issue while there is an ongoing investigation." We can assume that this investigation will last at least three more years.

tbrosz, it's a matter of character and ethics. Dick Cheney works for us. The least he can do is not act like an ass in public and display the requisite amount of honesty and openness we should expect from the most powerful members of goverment.

Now, explain to us why you support these guys?

Now would this "republican" member of the family live his life in disgrace or rise to the top of the Republican party?

Probably she'd marry the President.

birdshot is small enough that it probably doesn't need to hit that big of a vessel for that to be a risk.

the story on CNN.com said "a roughly 5 mm piece of shot became lodged in or alongside Whittington's heart muscle, causing the organ's upper two chambers to beat irregularly." that seems pretty huge to have wandered around in blood vessels, from the surface.

A bunch of wusses who would not know a shotgun from a broomstick are opining on the proper conduct after an accidental shooting during a hunting trip.

Well, I've never fired a shotgun (M16? Yes. M249? Yes. M60? Yes. M2 HMG? Yes. .58-caliber musket? Yes. Various .22 caliber pistols and rifles? Yes. Shotgun? No.) but one thing I seem to remember from, oh, anytime I've been around guns -- and Army instructores were particularly big on this -- is that when you have one and you are planning on shooting it, it is your positive and absolute obligation to make sure that your target is and your friends are not in the path you are shooting in. Sure, you might have to push this a little bit in an actual life and death situation, but I doubt any bird was posing a mortal risk to the Vice President.

And, afterwards, its not hard to see that, if you're a public figure, and you shoot someone who is supposedly not your enemy in what is supposedly an accident, and its all over the news, a public statement that it was an accident and that you regret it is in order. Its not something that should take days for your office to put out a statement on.

The excuses being offered here to defend Cheney are beyond stupid.

This reminds me of a story.

Two brothers, George and Jeb, were out deer hunting. They killed a big buck and started dragging him back to their truck. They were dragging him by his hind legs, and it was very slow going, since his antlers kept getting caught in the brush.

So George says to Jeb, "You know, it might be a lot easier if we drag him by his antlers instead." So they did.

After a little while Jeb says to George, "That was a real good idea, George, it's a lot easier now. But there's one problem."

George says, "Problem? What problem?"

Jeb says, "Well, now we're getting further away from the truck."

Man, if you read only the conservative apologists on this board you'd think no one ever manages to go hunting without mowing down the whole party with buckshot.

Okay, I didn't get much sleep last night, but I've now dissolved into helpless giggles. My stomach hurts. Everyone knock off the comedy for a few minutes.

Now would this "republican" member of the family live his life in disgrace or rise to the top of the Republican party? Posted by: Jay

Good analogy, Jay. And while the spirit of the post is correct, the Democratic Party at large would have washed its hands of Ted Kennedy decades ago. Also, Kennedy may be one of the longest serving members of the Senate; he's never been and never would have been considered for Senate leadership.

It's one thing for the people of Massachusetts to keep returning him to office. But the Democrats in the Senate have never considered him for the top leadership because of his personal baggage.

It may be good politics, but nothing more. In fact, I find such apologies, when not to The People themselves, to be tinged with insincerity.

Well, of course they're often insincere. But why would sincerity be in question in this case?

I suspect Cheney doesn't give a flying f*%k how the politics of this incident play out.

With his party in trouble already from multiple scandals and demonstrable instances of incompetence, he damn well better give a flying fuck. Or perhaps you'd like to acknowledge that this is additional evidence that the administration cares only about itself and its accrual of power.

Now, as for Mike Klueless:

This is really hilarious. A bunch of wusses who would not know a shotgun from a broomstick are opining on the proper conduct after an accidental shooting during a hunting trip.

Do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up. I suppose that, in your mind, since we're "liberals," we must all be effete, city-dwelling wimps, right? And all you tough, red-blooded "conservatives" know how to hunt quail, overhaul an engine, put up drywall, and fix a toilet?

Your ideas are cartoonish. Laughable.

SecularAnimist: Unless, of course, he and Bush had bought you off with a tax cut. Then you'd defend any and every evil or stupid thing they do.

If most conservatives got the same $300 I did, then they were even bought on the cheap. It's like that old joke with the punchline, "we've already established what you are - now we're just dickering on price."

Apologies to all the honest prostitutes out there, of course.

Stefan, you win the big fucking cigar.

Here's the link, in case the whole thing went over your head.

Secular Animist,

You have won the prize with that last quip.

Well, I've never fired a shotgun (M16? Yes. M249? Yes. M60? Yes. M2 HMG? Yes. .58-caliber musket? Yes. Various .22 caliber pistols and rifles? Yes. Shotgun? No.)

You've now made me extremely jealous.

the story on CNN.com said "a roughly 5 mm piece of shot became lodged in or alongside Whittington's heart muscle, causing the organ's upper two chambers to beat irregularly." that seems pretty huge to have wandered around in blood vessels, from the surface.

There are a number of not-particularly-small vessels in the neck and face that aren't far from the surface; if the story from the hospital or family is that seems to be what happened, I'm willing to credit it without a more concrete reason to believe they are part of a cover up engineered from the White House.

Why won't everyone leave me in peace? This is the worst thing that ever happened to me.

Sorry, "your head" means "Jay's head", not Stefan's.

a public statement that it was an accident and that you regret it is in order.

"regret" see, there's you're problem right there. the Veep regrets nothing. if the Veep does it, it is good, so sayeth the Veep. we shall all abide by this maxim or end up in Abu Garreefff.

What will solidify his reputation as "Darth Cheney" is when he becomes the second American president to use nuclear weapons on a civilian population, which he fully intends to do in Iran.

I know, I know, Dubya is the de jure president, but it is now crystal clear that Cheney is the de facto president.

In the event of another 9-11 type attack in the U.S. by al-Qaeda, Cheney will pull the trigger on Iran, just like he did on Whittington. His lack of remorse will also be the same...

If most conservatives got the same $300 I did, then they were even bought on the cheap. It's like that old joke with the punchline, "we've already established what you are - now we're just dickering on price."
Posted by: DH Walker on February 14, 2006 at 4:24 PM | PERMALINK

That's going to be a real problem for whomever gets elected next. They're going to have to repeal the tax cuts - I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I can't afford to go back up, even that $300/yr. Interest rates are up, my gas and electric bills are up, I've got expenses I didn't have 6 years ago, and my salary has gone down, both in absolute and real terms. Repealing these tax cuts is going to be very painful for most Americans, because they NEED them. They need them much more now than they did 6 years ago.

This reminds me of another story.

Two brothers, George and Jeb, were out deer hunting.

George accidentally shot Jeb, who collapsed on the ground, bleeding and unconscious. George started to panic, and then remembered that he had his cell phone in his pocket, so he called 911 for help.

George got the 911 operator on the phone and started wailing, "I'm out in the woods and I accidentally shot my brother and I don't know what to do, I think he's dead! I think I killed him!"

The 911 operator says, "OK, calm down. The first thing you've got to do is make sure he's dead."

George says "OK, just a minute" and the operator waits. Then she hears a gunshot. George comes back on the phone and says, "OK, now what?"

I thought Monica won the big fucking cigar.

"It's not like Cheney did something that affects America or the electorate."

His fundamental interest in recreational butchery does say rather a lot about his character and outlook. In 2003 he massacred 70 pheasants singlehandedly in one afternoon, which leaves quite a pile of gore. These were all captive birds that had grown up in a box and the first chance they ever had to fly was face first into Deadeye Dick's shot gun.

500 released, 410 shot, altogether. Them ol' boys must have packed on a few pounds after that one.

Republicans are so proud of this utter dog's cunt of a person.

The non-apology is legal strategy, i.e. he can't apologize for blasting a 78 year old man with a shotgun because that is a defacto admission of guilt. He can't apologize because of legal jeopardy; it's _not_ a PR issue. If Whittington dies, that's manslaughter or negligent homicide, take your pick. The Veep/WH PR machine is in full CYA mode here, _that's_ why they're not apologizing.

This re-inforces my belief that this is much more serious than the jokey 'peppered with pellets' WH happytalk narrative would have us believe.

Recall, this is a 78 year old guy with major shotgun trauma who has now had a heart attack and has required almost 4 days in ICU (you think they'd keep him in there a minute longer than necessary?). Whittington could very easily get into, or already be, in real trouble and die.
No press conference from the attending physician, just vague 'resting comfortably' spin from (Rove/WH coached) hospital PR. More likely he's resting comfortably because he's chasing the fentanyl dragon to the point of delerium. They've 'left pellets under his skin'. How _deep_ under his skin appears to be unmentionable, but the fact that they've already worked their way to his heart, apparently not by movement from the face/neck area, is an ominous sign.

Let me repeat: The Vice-president of the United States almost killed (and may yet kill) a 78yr old man with a shotgun. HaHaHa - NOT. Laughing about it is playing right into the Rove's hands. This is literally deadly serious.

The only silver lining here is that if Whittington dies, Cheney's toast as VP. Which in turn means there's a chance the plans to invade Iran get derailed, thus saving thousands of (innocent) lives.

You can put up drywall and overhaul an engine, Alek? Where do you live? Is it near me?

"Let them hate as long as they fear" -- Caligula.

For whatever it's worth, Brad DeLong says the rumor around south Texas is that my mother's theory was correct -- the reason for the delay is that they actually WERE waiting for Cheney to sober up before releasing the news of the accident.

"I thought Monica won the big fucking cigar."

Well, seeing as how Clinton was such a "wuss" I am suprised she didn't use the broomstick.

This story is already running on the Brazilian papers. One of them had an article about the jokes on Letterman, Leno and 'The Daily Show'.

OBF: Repealing these tax cuts is going to be very painful for most Americans, because they NEED them. They need them much more now than they did 6 years ago.

I can't remember who said it first, but if I could give back my $300 and reverse all the colossal fuck-ups and long-term structural damage to the country and its economy, I'd do it in a cold second.

And as for holding W accountable for all this crap... for the 39% in this country, if they saw W strangle a baby on live TV, they would give you a 20-minute long explanation of just how the baby was asking for it. Bush and Cheney are completely incapable of wrongdoing - it's a simple matter of rationalizing, that's all. And rationalizing is just another form of reasoning, isn't it?

In 2003 he massacred 70 pheasants singlehandedly in one afternoon, which leaves quite a pile of gore.

I've corrected this before, but it should be "peasants," not "pheasants."