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Tilting at Windmills

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February 14, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

MORE ABU GHRAIB PICTURES....The Australian program Dateline claims to have 60 previously unpublished photos from Abu Ghraib:

Some of the photos are similar to those published in 2004, others are different. They include photographs of six corpses, although the circumstances of their deaths are not clear. There are also pictures of what appear to be burns and wounds from shotgun pellets.

Dateline airs on Wednesday evening in Australia, which is early Wednesday morning on the U.S. East Coast. Their website has one new picture up now, and presumably they will post more of them after the show airs. They say that the photos are among those that were shown privately to members of Congress shortly after the original Abu Ghraib story broke.

UPDATE: The Sydney Morning Herald has 15 of the 60 pictures here.

Kevin Drum 8:41 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (55)

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Comments
There are also pictures of what appear to be burns and wounds from shotgun pellets.

When was the last time Cheney visited Iraq again?

ooohhh. apologies in advance.

Posted by: grape_crush on February 14, 2006 at 8:45 PM | PERMALINK

But if American newspapers avoid publishing any of these new pictures out of fear of offending pro-torture Republicans, that will be acceptable, right? After all, you can write an informative article without publishing photos. I certainly hope the New York Times doesn't publish these out of some juvenile or puerile motivation...

Posted by: ChiSox Fan in LA on February 14, 2006 at 8:52 PM | PERMALINK

The motherfuckers. The filthy filthy motherfuckers.

Posted by: Stefan on February 14, 2006 at 8:53 PM | PERMALINK

Plenty of pictures at this DailyKos diary:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/14/183059/640

Proceed with caution.

Posted by: Ugh on February 14, 2006 at 8:59 PM | PERMALINK


Right on, Chisox Fan!
Let's see how hypocritical the MSM can be.
I think we know the answer: VERY HYPOCRITICAL.

And then the MSM wonders why its stock continues to go down amongst ordinary Americans (both in a NYSE sense, as well as in a metaphorical sense).

Dana Milbank is just the latest example of someone who has shown his true colors. He is biased, although he purports to write "news" stories.
Nobody believes the MSM any more.

Too bad. Especially because they are the Democrats best friend, trying as hard as they can to discredit the Bush Administration, and failing all the time.

I'm sure we all remember Krugman's "sky is falling" columns. Hmmm, what have we got now: a booming economy. MSM pundits WRONG AGAIN.

Dowd writes a book about how men are bad, and somehow tries to tie in an anti-Bush angle. Too bad nobody bought the book. Perhaps they didn't buy the book because they didn't buy the premise.

MSM. Democrats. Losers made for each other.

Posted by: fred on February 14, 2006 at 9:01 PM | PERMALINK

Hey, Kevin. The other day David Brooks intimated you are a Stalinist imposing iron discipline.*

This is what poses as rational and informed conservative discourse these days...but Stalin famously said "one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic".

Who is living that thought these days with their moral relativism regarding "collateral damage", their dismissal of world poverty, tax cuts for the rich, Darfur...? The list is well neigh endless.

I would surmise he has never visited FreeRepublic.com, but I know he is simply a partisan hack.

Posted by: bobbyp on February 14, 2006 at 9:08 PM | PERMALINK

And then the MSM wonders why its stock continues to go down amongst ordinary Americans (both in a NYSE sense, as well as in a metaphorical sense).

Their stock has gone down because the are complicent in the crimes of the Cheney administration. And now, everyone but you apparently now understands this.

Must suck to be a Bush cultist right now. Dont worry, it will only get worse.

Posted by: SnarkyShark on February 14, 2006 at 9:10 PM | PERMALINK

The ones with shotgun pellets, how many were lawyers?

Posted by: Matt on February 14, 2006 at 9:13 PM | PERMALINK

The must not have announced themselves when they approached the interrogator.

Posted by: JS on February 14, 2006 at 9:17 PM | PERMALINK

Also, this is further proof that pellet injuries are very common.

Posted by: JS on February 14, 2006 at 9:19 PM | PERMALINK

So Abu Ghraib was one of Dick Cheney`s "undisclosed locations"...

Not a big suprise

Man, one just can`t make this stuff up

"Liars are usually easily discredited; it's the truth-tellers who need to be destroyed." - Joshua Marshall

Posted by: daCascadian on February 14, 2006 at 9:19 PM | PERMALINK

Terrorists being humiliated! I am outraged!

Posted by: Freedom Fighter on February 14, 2006 at 9:24 PM | PERMALINK

ChiSox Fan is EXACTLY RIGHT.

The press is supressing the cartoons because they are "offensive". Well, these pics are offensive too. Let's see if the MSM will act in a consistent way - or if they will be the hypocrites they normally are.

Posted by: Al on February 14, 2006 at 9:33 PM | PERMALINK

Those really are horrible.

Oh, and Fred --- um, sorry, Mr. McTeabagger --- you are both amoral and unconscionably stupid. You demand cruelty for its own sake --- in fact, I imagine that you are the kind of person who goes out of your way to steal from homeless people you see on the street. You probably haunt emergency wards with salt and vinegar, just so you poor it into wounds. I bet you try to kill children, just for the fun of it. Wait, no, you aren't? Then try acting like you aren't a callous ass for a change.

People suffer. Sometimes it is necessary, sometimes it isn't. Either way, it's nothing you should feel comfortable about. Here, it's pretty clear that the gruesome torture my country has been involved in is unnecessary. It hasn't helped us find weapons of mass destruction and it hasn't helped us find Osama Bin Laden's Batcave. So please, don't play glib about it. I can think of no moral distinction between those who justified this butchery on the grounds of war and the moral idiots who demanded the continuance of the British slave trade after the treatment of Africans in that trade was made public on the grounds that discontinuing the trade would stifle the war effort.

I realize that for some, being an American means that neither facts nor conscience matters, but don't think it makes you a patriot. It makes you lickspittle.

Posted by: Monstertron on February 14, 2006 at 9:36 PM | PERMALINK

fred on February 14, 2006 at 9:01 PM

Hmmm, what have we got now: a booming economy.

What's this 'we' shit?...Try selling your house in Michigan right about now, then come back and tell me about a booming economy.

Perhaps they didn't buy the book because they didn't buy the premise.

Kinda like that War on Christmas book written by some partisan hack on Fox News, right?

Freedom Fighter on February 14, 2006 at 9:24 PM:

Terrorists being humiliated! I am outraged!

No, humiliation is what you do to yourself whenever you post here...If you follow the links to the Kos posting, you'll see shotgun wounds, a guy getting beaten in the back of the head, and lots of blood.

And I thought I was being the sick fuck in the first post on this thread...Guess you topped me on that one, FF...

Fred. Freedom Fighter. Losers made for each other.
Posted by: grape_crush on February 14, 2006 at 9:37 PM | PERMALINK

Oh, let me add Al, ChiSox and Freedom Fighter to the list of Happy O'Peniswrinkles to whom my prior post applies.

Posted by: Monstertron on February 14, 2006 at 9:38 PM | PERMALINK

The blood-dimmed time is loosed and the worst are full of passionate intensity.

The worst.

Posted by: Windhorse on February 14, 2006 at 9:39 PM | PERMALINK

Is it just me, or are the trolls on this thread (freddy, Al) even dopier than usual? They seem to be disoriented.

Posted by: Joel on February 14, 2006 at 9:54 PM | PERMALINK

Bet I won't see this stuff in our "liberal" St. Pete Times any time soon...not till everone else is publishing them. The media just don't get that at some point it ain't gonna matter. The time to start doing their job has come and gone, so they can start anytime now.

Posted by: Ben Merc on February 14, 2006 at 10:01 PM | PERMALINK


You're right, Joel. I'm pretty disoriented today.

I am trying to square a circle of MSM hypocricy, and I find myself incapable of doing so.

Sorry about the disorientation.

Posted by: fred on February 14, 2006 at 10:01 PM | PERMALINK

Torture is evil.

Just wanted to see what kind of troll responses that would provoke.

Posted by: brooksfoe on February 14, 2006 at 10:03 PM | PERMALINK

Nobody believes the MSM any more. Too bad. Especially because they are the Democrats best friend, trying as hard as they can to discredit the Bush Administration, and failing all the time.

General Electric, Viacom, News Corp., and Time Warner are leftists? Wow. I always thought that GE was a big defense contractor. And I was always under the assumption that these big news conglomerates supported market deregulation, outsourced jobs, no healthcare, and shifting the tax burden. Gosh, you would think that they would tend to support Republicans. Who knew!

Posted by: Cognitive Dissonance Alert on February 14, 2006 at 10:05 PM | PERMALINK

Fred,

You want to know what a squared circle looks like?

Here's a side view: /

Now STFU and grow a conscience.

Posted by: Monstertron on February 14, 2006 at 10:09 PM | PERMALINK

It's not really fair to expect that we should ask the media to let us know what our armed forces have been up to at Abu Ghraib. Just like the actions of those rioting Muslims overseas, what our fighting forces do in our name has nothing to do with us. I mean, it's not like they're representing us or anything. So this case is exactly parallel to the cartoon case.

Yes, Joel, you're right. The dopiness of the trolls is in direct correlation with the weakness of their defenses and the fear with which they see their nasty, nasty universe blowing apart.

Posted by: shortstop on February 14, 2006 at 10:12 PM | PERMALINK

Tbrosz -

Please explain to us how this is really nothing to get upset about, just some fraternity pranks, and hey - who needs the Geneva Convention anyway?

I'm so mad I can't even speak. This is disgusting.

Posted by: chuck on February 14, 2006 at 10:22 PM | PERMALINK

Monstertron said: "Oh, let me add Al, ChiSox and Freedom Fighter to the list of Happy O'Peniswrinkles to whom my prior post applies."

Ummm, how did I get grouped in there? I'm for publicizing the Abu Ghraib story and photos, and absolutely against the torture that occurred. Either you didn't read my post, or you have difficulty with sarcasm. We can't just have charges of 'Peniswrinkle' wantonly flung about, can we?

Posted by: ChiSox Fan in LA on February 14, 2006 at 10:40 PM | PERMALINK

There are no vocal inflections and nonverbal cues in cyberspace, ChiSox. Sarcasm can be hard to detect.

Posted by: Cyan on February 14, 2006 at 10:53 PM | PERMALINK

Hey, they are already in arms over cartoons. What are they going to do. Protest some more?

I think we should photoshop the pictures into Gay Porn mags and distribute in the Middle East.

Triggering a clash between militant islam and militant leftist/feminist/gay marrying idiots sounds like a good tactical move.

Posted by: McA on February 14, 2006 at 10:53 PM | PERMALINK

Chuck:

The people who did this two years ago were, quite properly, tried, convicted, and thrown into Federal prison. To the best of my knowledge, these pictures, among others, were used as evidence, but not all of them were released to the public.

It will be interesting to see if a media that refused to print cartoons that might inflame Muslim violence will print these.

Posted by: tbrosz on February 14, 2006 at 10:53 PM | PERMALINK

Who's the American in the pix? Is it Graner?

Posted by: brooksfoe on February 14, 2006 at 11:05 PM | PERMALINK

The people who did this two years ago were, quite properly, tried, convicted, and thrown into Federal prison.

Yet the people who ordered them to do it remain at large, hunting 78 year old lawyers. So some of us are still a bit peeved.

Posted by: craigie on February 14, 2006 at 11:05 PM | PERMALINK

The discussion over at DailyKos is over the possibility that the Administration released these pics now to muffle the bad, humiliating spin over the VP's lawyer-hunting expedition. I find that not implausible - there isn't really anywhere for outrage over these photos to be directed.

Incidentally, everybody's always saying our all-volunteer force these days is so much smarter than the Vietnam-era draft Army. So how come none of the guys at My Lai were dumb enough to take pictures?

Posted by: brooksfoe on February 14, 2006 at 11:08 PM | PERMALINK

So how come none of the guys at My Lai were dumb enough to take pictures?

digital cameras

Posted by: craigie on February 14, 2006 at 11:09 PM | PERMALINK

As usual Rocket Man has not burned out his fuse out there all alone - The underlings are indeed in Joliet - However, Capone and Netti are still jucking it up back there in Cicero.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on February 14, 2006 at 11:12 PM | PERMALINK

Apologies ChiSox. Rage tends to blind one to sarcasm and then the peniswrinkles start flying everywhere.

Posted by: Monstertron on February 14, 2006 at 11:28 PM | PERMALINK

These pictures need the widest distribution possible to show the pain and suffering inflicted by Americans on helpless individuals. It is no wonder that the Right Wing Bastards don't want them published....they describe all too accurately the mindset of BUSHCO and his scum sucker apologists some of who loiter here. Is it possible for individuals to bring the United States up in front of the World Court?

Posted by: murmeister on February 14, 2006 at 11:29 PM | PERMALINK
I am trying to square a circle of MSM hypocricy, and I find myself incapable of doing so. Posted by: fred
Since it's spelled h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y, no wonder. You need to start with the premises that MSM supports big corporate interests; ergo, they take a Republican position: on their knees before Der Bush.
The people who did this two years ago were, quite properly, tried, convicted, and thrown into Federal prison. Posted by: tbrosz
Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are in Federal prison? Who knew?

Poll on Bush's so-called strong suit: American security:
Who trusts Bush on security?
POLL: Americans Trust United Nations More Than Bush On Iran
More bad news for President Bush: the latest CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll shows that Americans put more confidence in the United Nations to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons than they do the Bush administration.

Posted by: Mike on February 14, 2006 at 11:31 PM | PERMALINK

If tbrosz is the typical member of the group who is going to be the dominant one in this country for the next hundred years we are all screwed. Including tbrosz. Sooner or later he will find out.

Posted by: lib on February 14, 2006 at 11:52 PM | PERMALINK

Well...the poll showed Americans mistrust Bush to handle the nuclear situation in Iran by 45-55, and mistrust the UN 47-51. That's well within the margin of error of 5 pct pts. And only 8 pct were "very confident" the UN could handle it, while 17 pct were "very confident" Bush could. It seems more accurate to say Americans have about as little confidence in Bush's ability to handle the Iran nuclear situation as they do in the UN's.

And, incidentally, I'm glad only 8 pct were "very confident" the UN could handle it. I'm pro-internationalist and, uh, anti-anti-UN, but anybody who is "very confident" of the UN's ability to handle anything (apart from, apparently, weapons inspections) is misguided.

Posted by: brooksfoe on February 15, 2006 at 12:07 AM | PERMALINK

Speaking of that "little dust up" over cartoons

"...The minister is quoted as saying: "I've had T-shirts made with the cartoons that have upset Islam and I shall start wearing them today."

He added that it was "time to put an end to this story that we need to dialogue with these people", and asked: "What have we become, the civilisation of melted butter?" ..."

here

"...playin with matches in a pool of gasoline..." - Swamp Mama Johnson

Posted by: daCascadian on February 15, 2006 at 12:57 AM | PERMALINK

Their stock has gone down because the are complicent in the crimes of the Cheney administration. And now, everyone but you apparently now understands this.

Posted by: amy on February 15, 2006 at 5:11 AM | PERMALINK

Come a day, not far, those in pictures not suspected terrorist, but but suspected drug dealing pimp, ratted out by others with the same integrity are tbroz, Freedom Fucker, other peniswrinkles.----------

Haha! You tell me who is your supplier?!

Peniswrinkle says: No one! No one!! They lied, I am not a drug dealing pimp, please, you have to listen to me, I voted for you, I love you!! PLEASE!!!!

No speak, we loosen youre tongue: here we will put this 1/4 in drill into your hip socket, then you will speak.

Peniswrinkle says: Help me please, please, you must believe me, I asm your friend, please, please, look at me, you are making a mistake, please, please

Still no speak. Do it to his daughter, make him watch.

He will speak

Posted by: mikmik on February 15, 2006 at 8:24 AM | PERMALINK

Yet the people who ordered them to do it remain at large, hunting 78 year old lawyers. So some of us are still a bit peeved.
Posted by: craigie

Is it just me or is Craigie been on a real hot streak?

He's completely cracking me up.

Posted by: CFShep on February 15, 2006 at 9:01 AM | PERMALINK

Premature Post Button Syndrome.

Honestly. "Is ____been"?

Cryin' out loud.

Posted by: CFShep on February 15, 2006 at 9:03 AM | PERMALINK

It's not just you. Discerning PA posters know craigie's the real deal.

And I'm still admiring you for knowing "bated" from "baited."

Posted by: shortstop on February 15, 2006 at 9:17 AM | PERMALINK

Cue Will Allen lecturing us again that we can't condemn the abuse at Abu Ghraib without first condemning domestic prisoner abuse in general and what he claims as Democratic tolerance of same in particular.

Or perhaps he won't waste his time with such a bullshit, fallacious argument again. We can only hope.

Posted by: Gregory on February 15, 2006 at 9:21 AM | PERMALINK

And I'm still admiring you for knowing "bated" from "baited."
Posted by: shortstop

I'm The Society for the Protection of Homonyms.

I can really get a good riff goin' for 'testing one's mettle - not metal' 'waiving one's rights - not waving', 'altar boys - not alter boys'...

It's really more that I'm concerned that a society which can't distinquish between words which sound alike but which are very different words with entirely different meanings and derivations will lose the capacity for appreciating puns and other wordplay.

Heh. "Preserve Puns and Spoonerisms!"

Good to know that we've got craigie on the job, though.

btw: Didn't score that 98th percentile on the LSAT for nothin', dear boy.

Posted by: CFShep on February 15, 2006 at 10:15 AM | PERMALINK

They include photographs of six corpses,...

Gosh, I didn't know that loud music and no AC was so lethal. I guess the trolls have some 'splainin' to do.

Posted by: ckelly on February 15, 2006 at 11:30 AM | PERMALINK

I'm The Society for the Protection of Homonyms.

Isn't that kind of, you know, gay?

Posted by: Stefan on February 15, 2006 at 12:09 PM | PERMALINK
Hey, they are already in arms over cartoons.

See, this right here is the problem. McA demonstrates the common right wing handwaving "they", as if the rest of the world were on big undifferentiated mass.

Some people are up in arms over cartoons. They may well not be the same people (though there is certainly some overlap) who would be upset by more tangible evidence of torture at Abu Ghraib.

Particularly, I would expect that lots of people in Iraq would be upset -- perhaps violently so if given no other means of redress -- with the US for the latter that don't care about the former, at all, or that do care about the former but bear little, if any, animosity towards the US for it.

Considering that a significant portion of the combat power of the United States military is committed to stabilizing Iraq, that gives the actions at Abu Ghraib a particular kind of significance the cartoons lack.

Posted by: cmdicely on February 15, 2006 at 2:09 PM | PERMALINK
The people who did this two years ago were, quite properly, tried, convicted, and thrown into Federal prison.

No, only a small number of the people that there is direct, photographic evidence were involved were tried; and, despite ample evidence that, at the very best, dereliction of duty in the chain of command, and far more likely deliberate policy was the cause, no one up the chain of command has been tried.

Posted by: cmdicely on February 15, 2006 at 2:14 PM | PERMALINK

Looks like BoingBoing has a torrent of the Australian broadcast.

Posted by: tom on February 15, 2006 at 3:51 PM | PERMALINK

Saw it live last night. Words can't describe it.

Posted by: floopmeister on February 15, 2006 at 5:39 PM | PERMALINK

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Posted by: david on February 16, 2006 at 3:44 AM | PERMALINK

US Concerned New Torture Pictures Could Give Wrong Impression

A spokesman for the US State Department has described the broadcast of newly leaked pictures of the mistreatment of prisoners held by the Coalition in Iraq by as 'unnecessarily provocative and irresponsible', suggesting the screening of images of horrific abuse could create an impression the world's only superpower is less than scrupulously and fanatically fair and humane in its handling and interrogation of prisoners captured by necessity in the course of the Global War on Terror.
http://www.ironyparty.org/newsfeed.htm

Posted by: Senor Valquez on February 16, 2006 at 4:24 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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