Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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February 15, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

CONSPIRACY THEORY BLOGGING....Just to make sure we're straight on this, what is the consensus conspiracy theory about what really happened on Cheney's hunting trip? It seems to be approximately this:

Cheney's party had been drinking. Maybe Jack Daniels, maybe a few beers. So Cheney has a bit of a buzz, it's near sunset, and Harry Whittington has dropped behind the main hunting party. Suddenly, a covey of quail flushes and Cheney wheels around to track them. Unfortunately, Whittington comes into his line of fire, no more than 30 feet away by the looks of his subsequent injuries, but the sun is in Cheney's eyes and his reflexes are dulled from alcohol, so he pulls the trigger anyway.

An interview with a sheriff or anyone else is considered imprudent at that point, so the sheriff is told to come by the next morning after Cheney has sobered up. Karl Rove decides that silence from the White House is a good idea too and the president goes along. Scott McClellan isn't even informed. That's the way Dick wants it, so that's the way it's going to play.

Unfortunately, there are several witnesses to the shooting, including Whittington, and there's no telling what they're going to say. So Cheney decides to hide. If he doesn't answer questions, after all, he can't be caught in a lie. Once everyone has gone on record and the White House is sure that Whittington isn't going to contradict the VP's story, Cheney will take questions from the press.

Is that about it? Have I missed anything? Feel free to chime in.

In the meantime, read this column from Editor & Publisher's Greg Mitchell, wondering just who's in charge at the White House these days. Was Bush kept out of the loop, or was he informed about what happened on Saturday night (as the White House says) and then just tamely went along with Cheney's plan? Are we seriously supposed to believe that Bush thought it was good idea to lay low and not tell anyone about the incident even though Cheney supposedly did nothing wrong?

What's wrong with this picture?

UPDATE: Here's the latest from National Review's Byron York:

I just watched the news conference by Harry Whittington's medical team. On three occasions, they refused to comment on how many shotgun pellets are in Whittington's body and on the composition steel? lead? of those pellets. Perhaps they don't know the answers. But that's not what they said; they said they could not comment on those particular questions while, at the same time, they answered many others.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Kevin Drum 2:16 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (188)

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Comments

If no one got a blow job, it doesn't matter.

Posted by: Gore/Obama '08 on February 15, 2006 at 2:18 PM | PERMALINK

I would also like to repeat a point someone else made in a previous thread -- all the joking about Cheney covers the Repukes killing the NSA inquiry, keeps the Katrina report off the front pages, etc.

Laughing our way deeper into dictatorship. "Rule of Law," indeed.

Posted by: Gore/Obama '08 on February 15, 2006 at 2:20 PM | PERMALINK

Well, I wouldn't consider that a conspiracy theory per se as much as an Occam's Razor fit to the known stubborn facts.

Clearly Whittington's injuries don't correspond to the story told to, and later reported by, the traditional media (no one is "peppered" into their heart cavity), so something else happened. What? We will probably never know.

Cranky

Posted by: Cranky Observer on February 15, 2006 at 2:20 PM | PERMALINK

"What's wrong with this picture?" What's wrong is that it's got Big Time's evil, hideous mug in it. *shudder* Make it go away, please, so I can get some sleep.

Posted by: Doofus on February 15, 2006 at 2:20 PM | PERMALINK

Check out the latest Political Comic from HL.

Cheney Prays for Hunt Victim
The Hollywood Liberal

There is also a giant list of political comics at
H.L.s Comics Features

Posted by: jackrocker999 on February 15, 2006 at 2:21 PM | PERMALINK
If no one got a blow job, it doesn't matter.

Actually... there's a rumor on Sirius radio that Cheney had his mistress along wtih him on the hunting trip. link here

Posted by: Augustus on February 15, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

Before investing more deeply into yet one more conspiratorial take on an otherwise unremarkable incident, the liberals will do well to reflect on the fate of the other 3421 conspiracy theories that they foisted upon themslves during the last five years. Perhaps they should lighten there load a little bit for the Novemeber election, whose result is becoming more and more pre-ordained with every pixel wasted on this minor mishap by the left wingnuttia.

Posted by: tbrosz on February 15, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

You're suspecting fowl play here Kevin?

Seriously though, this may just be "litigation posture." No apology, no statement against interest for any later civil or criminal proceedings.

Posted by: Me2d on February 15, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

I have a really important question that I have not yet seen addressed:

Did Cheney have a mysterious lump on his back? If so, it really changes the perspective on this story, does it not?

Posted by: Yancey Ward on February 15, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

Suddenly, a covey of quail flushes and Cheney wheels around to track them. Unfortunately, Whittington comes into his line of fire, no more than 30 feet away by the looks of his subsequent injuries, but the sun is in Cheney's eyes and his reflexes are dulled from alcohol, so he pulls the trigger anyway. Kevin Drum

Kevin, you've missed the important detail. If this is indeed what happened, I guess 'ol Whitt was standing on a ladder as you don't shoot at quail on the ground - unless you're an asshole, or drunk.

Posted by: Jeff II on February 15, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

Cheney was drunk!


No question about it...

Posted by: Fred Flintrock on February 15, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

"I would also like to repeat a point someone else made in a previous thread -- all the joking about Cheney covers the Repukes killing the NSA inquiry, keeps the Katrina report off the front pages, etc." Not to mention the new Abu Ghraib photos, which otherwise would almost certainly be getting more coverate. ShotgunGate is such a nice distraction that Unka Karl may not even have to raise the threat level this time.

Posted by: Doofus on February 15, 2006 at 2:25 PM | PERMALINK

I'm fully confident that Brit Hume will get to the bottom of everything.

Posted by: SavageView on February 15, 2006 at 2:26 PM | PERMALINK

karl rove most definitely did not inform idiot son that the vice president of the united states shot a 78 year old man in the face.

it's a late saturday night and the prez is getting ready for bed in a couple of hours. he'd get pissed off. it can wait.

Posted by: linda on February 15, 2006 at 2:27 PM | PERMALINK

If you want to find out if Cheney was drinking, get ahold of Whittington's hospital records. (Not easy to do - would probably have to bribe somebody in the records dept of the hospital). With that kind of injury, and the possible need for surgery, they probably took blood, and ran a bunch of different tests, including a blood alcohol content(BAC). If he tested positive for ethanol, how far do you have to leap to conclude that Cheney probably imbibed as well. Just a thought for all you intrepid investigative journalists down there in Texas.

Posted by: Paul on February 15, 2006 at 2:29 PM | PERMALINK

Good conspiracy theories ascribe wicked intentions to participants, so I'm not sure this really fits as a conspiracy theory.

I suspect that the fear is that this will represent some sort of 'symbolic moment' for the Bush administration. I wouldn't choose it as such, but perhaps Americans will generally. (Symbolic moments include the mallaise speech, standing on the WTC ruins, "tear down this wall", standing in a supermarket and supposedly not knowing what things cost, etc.)

Going on a trip with women other than your wives, drinking (maybe), and then shooting another guy in the face might come to represent profligacy, irresponsibility, and unaccountability --- in a way that starting and losing a war, destroying the budget, massive corruption, and so on somehow don't.

Posted by: Saam Barrager on February 15, 2006 at 2:30 PM | PERMALINK

"Before investing more deeply into yet one more conspiratorial take on an otherwise unremarkable incident, the liberals will do well to reflect on the fate of the other 3421 conspiracy theories that they foisted upon themslves during the last five years. Perhaps they should ..."zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Posted by: TruthTeller on February 15, 2006 at 2:30 PM | PERMALINK

Do we need a "second gunman" to explain any of this?

Posted by: art hackett on February 15, 2006 at 2:30 PM | PERMALINK

Joke swiped from Brad deLong's blog:

Cheney invites Ted Kennedy on a hunting troop. Kennedy agrees, but on condition that he drives....

well, I thought it was funny.

Posted by: Diana on February 15, 2006 at 2:30 PM | PERMALINK

"I would also like to repeat a point someone else made in a previous thread -- all the joking about Cheney covers the Repukes killing the NSA inquiry, keeps the Katrina report off the front pages, etc."

or the fact that scooter rolled on cheney and '08 fundie fave george allen says the dick should be investigated.

Posted by: benjoya on February 15, 2006 at 2:30 PM | PERMALINK

Oh Kevin, you're missing some of the most lurid speculations!

The other member of the hunting party, who WAS an eyewitness, was Pamela Willeford, ambassador to.... you guessed it.... Liechtenstein. Lynn Cheney is rumored to be ready to rip her hair out. Pammie was by Dick's side. She did NOT want to be included in the story, but it's been dragged out.

Oh, and the WH doctor who's attending to Whitt? He's David Blanchard, evangelical blowhard who's more interested in prayer healing than mentioning that his patient has pellets in his heart and liver.

And no conspiracy could be complete without this coda...what if Whitt is no longer with us at all? The odds of him, at his age, surviving organ damage, are incredible. But of course, Cheney IS praying, right?

Posted by: Susie Bright on February 15, 2006 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINK
Just to make sure we're straight on this, what is the consensus conspiracy theory about what really happened on Cheney's hunting trip?

There are a number of things which are unexplained which have produced different theories which blend into each other, many of which are more credible than the standard explanation being offered by Administration defenders. But the key point is to get the facts, not incoherent, self-contradictory B.S. or guesses based on those few facts we do know.

The elements that are raised in them include desire to cover up any of a variety of politically or legally damaging facts, most notably marital infidelity (requiring putting together an explanation that prevented immediate interview by local authorities) and/or drunkenness contributing to the shooting (delaying interview until Cheney had sobered up.)

But the point isn't to advance one theory, the point is to find the facts so that we have a coherent explanation. The details of any theory explaining the great gaping holes in the official explanation are conjecture, and are almost certainly wrong in important respects (it would be an incredibly lucky theory that got all the details right just from the little we do know, and the contradictions in the official story).

Trying to pin down one "consensus" "conspiracy theory" serves only to guarantee that once it is discredited, the official story -- despite its clear falsity on its face -- will be perceived as true, since it will be one story vs. the other rather than the official story vs. its own clear defects. So, Kevin, why are you doing Rove's work for him?

Posted by: cmdicely on February 15, 2006 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin:

You forgot the part about the two women. The hunting party was Cheney, Whittington and two women, who were not their wives.

Maybe nothing to it, but if Cheney were having a liaison with someone other than Lynne, it might explain why nobody wanted to talk about it much.

Posted by: zmulls on February 15, 2006 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINK

The only thing "fishy" about this story is that once again, the public is only hearing part of it, and being led to believe that the part they have heard has been sugarcoated. The predictable effect is that liberals are going to assume the worst, and discuss it - and at a strategicly beneficial time, the real story will come out (or the press will just bury it under the next outrage) and liberals will be framed as "bush haters".

It's the same pattern all over again.

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on February 15, 2006 at 2:33 PM | PERMALINK

This is simply the latest example of the slimy secrecy of this administration. It's not like they work for us after all. Nixon's got nothing on these clowns. Hell, the Politburo would be impressed.

I especially like that McClellan knew about the Whittington heart attack during the press conference but didn't utter a peep.

Who believes anything these people do or say?

Posted by: ckelly on February 15, 2006 at 2:33 PM | PERMALINK

My conspiracy theory doesn't involve alcohol. It involves Cheney's heart problem.

Scenario: Cheney and Whitt are standing at the firing line. Whitt is several yards away, to the left of Cheney. It is getting dark. Cheney's gun is loaded, but he's holding it at rest position, pointing to his left. Perhaps a quail suddenly darts up and surprises him, or something else happens -- and Cheney's bad heart gives a HICCUP. His defib-pacemaker kicks in, but the shock of it causes an involuntary muscular contraction. He squeezes the trigger. Whittington, to Cheney's left, is sprayed at close range.

The delay in reporting the news was 1) to wait and see if Whittington would even survive the initial blast; 2) to make sure Cheney's heart was OK; because 3) if word got out that Cheney's heart irregularities caused him to injure/kill a fellow hunter, he would be put under pressure to step down from office.

Posted by: HerrBill on February 15, 2006 at 2:33 PM | PERMALINK

The basic flaw in your question is combining `think` and `Bush` in one sentence. Uncle Dick is daddy's friend so W is like a nephew. Why bother the child.

Posted by: Stu on February 15, 2006 at 2:33 PM | PERMALINK

I think you pretty much nailed it.

Keeping Bush out of the loop is NOT a goper invention, however -- Clinton had the plausible deniability routine down to a science....

I would like to say Dems would have handled this differently -- but I think both parties are rotten to the core -- and John Kerry, algore or preparation H would have done EXACTLY THE SAME THING>..

if the POTUS is out of the loop on this stuff - it works to their advantage...

somebody convince me that H would have come clean????? -- Gore? -- Nader perhaps, but only maybe.

Carter... they wouldn't have been drunk

Posted by: Tj on February 15, 2006 at 2:33 PM | PERMALINK

This is simply the latest example of the slimy secrecy of this administration. It's not like they work for us after all. Nixon's got nothing on these clowns. Hell, the Politburo would be impressed.

I especially like that McClellan knew about the Whittington heart attack during the press conference but didn't utter a peep.

Who believes anything these people do or say?

Posted by: ckelly on February 15, 2006 at 2:35 PM | PERMALINK

What's conceivably wrong is the presumption that Cheney had been drinking. Much as I hate to act as the attorney for his defense, let's face it: this is a severely deteriorated cardiac patient, whose doctors have almost certainly urged him not to drink at all. At most, they might have signed off on a limit of one drink a day. He could disregard the advice, of course, but that would be very foolish.

A better reason for putting off his interview with the law might be as follows: Cheney shoots man in face. Man rendered unconscious. At least for a minute or so, Cheney must think he has killed him. Man revives; encouraging. Taken to local hospital, told he needs a better hospital, taken there by copter; not encouraging. At better hospital, man's immediate condition seems not too bad, but pellet is lodged near his heart (see today's NY Times), so he just might die anyway.

IOW, despite the breezy initial comments by the people around Cheney, the reality was that everyone involved in this was petrified with fear. And Cheney himself may have been too freaked out to face talking to the cops right away.

The hypothesis about not notifying the press sounds right.

Posted by: penalcolony on February 15, 2006 at 2:36 PM | PERMALINK

you have missed several details.

- Whittington and Rove are friends. Whittington got Rove his first job.

- Rove was on the phone to Armstrong within one hour of the shooting, and it took them a day to cook up a good cover story.

- Kenedy County has a population of 414 people, which makes it the fourth smallest county in the United States. The sherrifs department is probably in the pocked of the Armstrongs

- Who knows if Cheney was actually aiming at a bird? Maybe he was walking around with a loaded shotgun with the safety off and some accident caused the gun to go off and hit Whittington. Aiming at a bird sounds much better than Cheney dropped his gun.

Posted by: MonkeyBoy on February 15, 2006 at 2:36 PM | PERMALINK

Sounds like the Clinton Chronicles to me. When does the video come out ?

Posted by: Mike K on February 15, 2006 at 2:37 PM | PERMALINK

The scandal is how Cheney avoided having to face the Sheriff that evening. If it were you or I...

Posted by: Hedley Lamarr on February 15, 2006 at 2:37 PM | PERMALINK

Or as David Letterman put it: If this story gets any bigger, somebody's going to have to tell the President.

Posted by: Kit Stolz on February 15, 2006 at 2:38 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, you left off the two whores, I mean GOP fundraising women. So there may be a blow job or three involved here. I just wonder if the ambassador to switzerland will attempt to claim diplomatic immunity from her own country.

Posted by: bubba on February 15, 2006 at 2:39 PM | PERMALINK

Enough with this wimpy half-tinfoil-hattery. If you want the real manly conspiracy theory, go with the one about Cheney shooting Whittington intentionally, either because he's a closet liberal, or because they were fighting over the two women present. Then add in some stuff about this was being done intentionally to distract from either a) the congressional rollover on wiretapgate, or b) Abu Ghraib. Or come at it from the other angle, where this was set up to give Cheney an excuse to step down early, or as a conspiracy (in which Whittington intentionally jumped in front of the shot) to discredit Cheney and get someone else in place for when Bush is impeached.

Posted by: jimBOB on February 15, 2006 at 2:39 PM | PERMALINK
What's conceivably wrong is the presumption that Cheney had been drinking. Much as I hate to act as the attorney for his defense, let's face it: this is a severely deteriorated cardiac patient, whose doctors have almost certainly urged him not to drink at all. At most, they might have signed off on a limit of one drink a day. He could disregard the advice, of course, but that would be very foolish.

So? So was pushing for a war with Iraq after 9/11. So is claiming you know where the WMD in Iraq when you know no such thing, or even if there are any. So are lots of things Cheney does.

Cheney is amazingly arrogant, and thinks he can get away with anything (and, hey, he usually has.) He's like a frigging teenager. He heads a Vice Presidential search committee -- and picks himself.

You think he's going to let his doctor tell him what to do?

Posted by: cmdicely on February 15, 2006 at 2:40 PM | PERMALINK

"I would also like to repeat a point someone else made in a previous thread -- all the joking about Cheney covers the Repukes killing the NSA inquiry, keeps the Katrina report off the front pages, etc."

Listen: when the VP shoots someone in the face, it's bad for the administration. End of story.

Posted by: C.I. Dreyfus on February 15, 2006 at 2:40 PM | PERMALINK

Can't recall where I read this, but apparenttly Willeford's husband was also a guest of the Armstrongs, and at the time of the shooting was hunting with another party elsewhere on their very large property.

Posted by: penalcolony on February 15, 2006 at 2:41 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin,

Come on. Conspirarcy theory? Is it out that unbelievable that Cheney might have had a few drinks?

Why is that a "conpsirarcy"? No black helicopters, no illuminati or any mention of Hilderberg is involved here.

Why a conspriarcy especially since MSNBC pulled the quote on them drinking?

We don't know if it happened. But to call it a conspirarcy is to discredit what is a very real possibility.

-Joe

Posted by: Joe on February 15, 2006 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

I am running out of jokes, I need more material.

Any lawyers out there willing to sacrifice themselves?

Posted by: Matt on February 15, 2006 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

JeffII....you shoot them down low because they are farm raised and can barely fly.

such a sportsman!

Posted by: lilybart on February 15, 2006 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

John Kerry, algore or preparation H would have done EXACTLY THE SAME.

Pray tell who is "preparation H"? You see, I don't listen to Limbaugh so I'm not up on my trollspeak.

Oh and Sir Ronny Raygun wrote the book on "plausible deniability" during Iran Contra. He and BushI "sleeping" through meetings and "not able to recollect".

Posted by: ckelly on February 15, 2006 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

CHENEY TO SPEAK ABOUT ACCIDENT AT 3PM EST ON FOX.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: nepeta on February 15, 2006 at 2:44 PM | PERMALINK

"But Lynn, we desparately need Lichtenstein to be an intregal part of the Coalition of the Willing. Where else could I find a secure area to speak? Damn reporters follow me everywhere."

Posted by: thethirdPaul on February 15, 2006 at 2:45 PM | PERMALINK

In the meantime, read this column from Editor & Publisher's Greg Mitchell, wondering just who's in charge at the White House these days.

"These" days? I'd be very surprised if Bush has ever truly been in charge. Like Reagan, he's a figurehead -- he's sent out to Show Resolve and Sound Tough -- but the real movers are Rove, Cheney and Company. The most pathetic thing is that Bush probably thinks (and is led to believe) that he's really running things.

Posted by: Alek Hidell on February 15, 2006 at 2:46 PM | PERMALINK

Banks in Lichtenstein are very comfortable with Halliburton money.

Posted by: stupid git on February 15, 2006 at 2:47 PM | PERMALINK

There's another possibility. A valet of color (this is "Plantation Hunting," after all, and these are Rich White Republicans) had just served Big Time a drink. Big Time didn't like his attitude, called him "an uppity -igger", and when the valet didn't apologize to his satisfaction, Big Time brandished the shotgun and squeezed off a round. Whittington saw this coming and hurled himself into the line of fire at the last minute, saving the man's life but maybe costing his own.

Posted by: Doofus on February 15, 2006 at 2:48 PM | PERMALINK

I suspect that the fear is that this will represent some sort of 'symbolic moment' for the Bush administration.

9/11, no WMDs, Plame, Medicare, Deficits, Katrina, falling off bicycles, shooting their friends... they don't need any more symbols, they need impeachment.

Posted by: cleek on February 15, 2006 at 2:48 PM | PERMALINK

"Dick, you just shot your friend!"
"Oh no! Is he okay?"
"Yeah, he doesn't seem to badly hurt but we need to get him to the hospital."
"Of course - oh the press is going to have a field day with this one. Help him up and take him to the hospital right now. I need to go talk to his wife."
"You're gonna have to tell the press Dick."
"Yeah I know, later - call my lawy... oh great, I just shot him. I think I will stop talking now."

Posted by: Orwell on February 15, 2006 at 2:48 PM | PERMALINK

The most important question to ask is:

What exactly did Whittington do that so angered the quail that it set him up to get shot?

Posted by: Yancey Ward on February 15, 2006 at 2:50 PM | PERMALINK

I'm with MonkeyBoy. I find it quite plausible that 'Whittington wandered into the line of fire' is a cover story for Cheney tripping, dropping his gun, or something equally mundane that made the gun go off. The purpose of the cover story being to help Cheney save face. Of course, that's operative only if Whittington lives. If he doesn't, Cheney will instead be looking to avoid as much culpability as he can so as to avoid criminal charges.

Posted by: joe bob on February 15, 2006 at 2:50 PM | PERMALINK

When Cheney gives his "explanation" on Fox, I think the key thing to pay attention to is the distance he claims he was from Whittington.

If he says it's 30 yds, he will almost certainly be contradicted by the forensic evidence of Whittington's wounds.

And if the distance is instead something closer to 30 FEET, then he's going to have to explain how any person in full command of his faculties might make such an obvious, egregious mistake.

Posted by: frankly0 on February 15, 2006 at 2:53 PM | PERMALINK

Buncha amateurs.

Whittington has the original forged TANG documents with Rove's actual fingerprints on them (the one that was released by FAX from the White House after Dan Rather's story was aired). Tells Cheney to get him the next Supreme Court appointment that is opening up, or these papers might find their way to the press. Cheney smiles and slaps him on the back and says "now THAT'S how we play hardball! you'll fit right in! - say, I'm going quail hunting up at the Armstrongs this weekend, you want to come with?"

36 hours later, Cheney is bending over Whittington's moaning form, a tiny wisp of smoke emenating from the gaping wound on his face. "Now that's REALLY how we play hardball, Harry. Don't you EVER fuck with me."

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on February 15, 2006 at 2:56 PM | PERMALINK

Byron York is calling it Harry Whittington's medical team.

Incorrect.

As we all know, it was Dick Cheney's medical team (that provided initial treatment).

Posted by: SombreroFallout on February 15, 2006 at 2:56 PM | PERMALINK

When do we hear from 'the third hunter'; that is, the witness closest to the event as it occured?

Posted by: Robert Earle on February 15, 2006 at 2:57 PM | PERMALINK

As to Kevin's question about the composition of the shot, the Houston Chronicle says three times in an article that it was lead. I don't know if they're just assuming, but for what it's worth. . .

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3660306.html

Posted by: RSA on February 15, 2006 at 2:58 PM | PERMALINK

Remember, in all of Texas last year there were about one million hunting licenses issued, but, as I recollect, only about 30 reported hunting accidents. And clearly ANY accident of this level of seriousness would HAVE to be reported, by the hospital if by no one else.

The point is, these kinds of mistakes are indeed very rare, and absolutely demand an explanation.

How many people shoot a fellow hunter at such close range that they must be put in the hospital for many days, and have pellets lodged near their hearts?

Again, this would require an explanation from ANYONE.

Posted by: frankly0 on February 15, 2006 at 2:58 PM | PERMALINK

HerrBill at 2:33 PM had a good theory, that Cheney's heart gave a hiccup, his difibrulator kicked and he had an involuntary muscular jerk.

That's pretty plausible, but it highlights his health problem, so they'll probably never want to admit it, even if it's both true and most exculpable.

Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 3:00 PM | PERMALINK

There was Cheney, Whittington, the Ambassador to Switzerland, and --who else?

Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 3:03 PM | PERMALINK

On three occasions, they refused to comment on how many shotgun pellets are in Whittington's body and on the composition steel? lead? of those pellets.

On the previous thread, I asked the question, is there NO ONE in authority in all of Texas with an ounce of integrity, including medical people?

NO ONE?

Posted by: frankly0 on February 15, 2006 at 3:04 PM | PERMALINK

A rumor I heard is that Harry Whittington is actually dead. The man in the hospital is an imposter. It's just something I heard.

Posted by: TLB on February 15, 2006 at 3:04 PM | PERMALINK

'Exculpatory', that word is 'exculpatory'.

Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 3:05 PM | PERMALINK

Mitchell's coloumn raises an excellent point about the wayt he WH press & really everyone else seems to be treating this. So: Bush found out at 8 pm that night and had no opinion, made no decision on how to release the information? He left it up to Cheney and Armstrong, involved parties? Of course, we know that Cheney is the most powerful Veep in history, but we shouldn't forget or let other voters forget who was ostensibly on top of the ticket.

Pushing the drunken speculation a little farther: if true, could this have something to do with why Bush wasn't told immediately (about Cheney's role) and why, apparantly, Cheney did not speak to Bush himself at all that night?

also: is that THE Susie Bright at 2:32 PM, reminding us to pay attention to Pamela Willeford's presence? cmdicely's point, also at 2:32 is good: however fun the conspiracy theories are, what we need are the actual facts. Ont he other hand, keeping the speculation machine going can help flush out those facts, especially since the speculation machine seems to be turning out more credible explanations than the official story.

Posted by: URK on February 15, 2006 at 3:06 PM | PERMALINK

Every theory of events isn't a "conspiracy theory". There's no whodunnit here. There are inconsistent facts that don't gibe with the official story. It's a conspiracy of one: Cheney.

Cheney not wanting to provide a testimonial record that might later be contradicted is simply his arrogance. Not a conspiracy at all. "Don't have to and you can't make me." It's a story of callousness and disregard and MENDACITY.

Posted by: Jeffrey Davis on February 15, 2006 at 3:07 PM | PERMALINK

> is there NO ONE in authority in all of
> Texas with an ounce of integrity,
> including medical people?

The traditional press is pretty much whipped, so it is not surprising that MSNBC (for example) modified their story based on Rovian pressure. But doctors are usually much harder to suborn. What pressure exactly do they use to get otherwise uninvolved people to go along with the spin?

Cranky

Posted by: Cranky Observer on February 15, 2006 at 3:08 PM | PERMALINK

Cheney doesn't want anyone to know he was using depleted uranium pellets.

Posted by: JamesP on February 15, 2006 at 3:08 PM | PERMALINK

this was posted right below the Byron York clip

"GOOD NEWS [JPod]

Harry Whittington is sitting up, eating normally and plans to do some work today even though he's still in the intensive-care unit."

can that possibly be satire, or do they expect us to take that seriously???

Posted by: e1 on February 15, 2006 at 3:09 PM | PERMALINK

The vice president, a lawyer, and two female "fundraisers" walk into a bar. The lawyer says to one of the gals, "Do you carry mace?" Before she can answer, the Vice Prez says, "You know what we use for mace up in Wyoming?" The lawyer says, "No, what?" and before the words are even out of his mouth, he's tasting a pepper spray of buckshot.

Posted by: Doofus on February 15, 2006 at 3:09 PM | PERMALINK

Ok, I've got it: Cheney had "intelligence" that Whittington is really Digby!

So of course he had to shoot him.

Posted by: craigie on February 15, 2006 at 3:11 PM | PERMALINK

I think that after 4 heart attacks, Cheney's doctors probably kept him off of alcohol.

Posted by: TangoMan on February 15, 2006 at 3:11 PM | PERMALINK

I wondered too if somebody might not be dead.

Call that the "Weekend at Cheney's" theory.

Posted by: Saam Barrager on February 15, 2006 at 3:11 PM | PERMALINK

But doctors are usually much harder to suborn.

That was exactly my reaction.

How do you get even doctors to lie for you, and pretend that Whittington's injuries are just not serious (like "chicken pox")? Is everybody in ANY kind of authority in Texas a ready and happy liar for any Republican in power?

Posted by: frankly0 on February 15, 2006 at 3:11 PM | PERMALINK

John Nichols has a good take on this:

Cheney, "A Beer or Two," and A Gun
by John Nichols
February 15, 2006
The Nation

Excerpt:

The role played by the Secret Service in preventing questioning of Cheney on the evening of the shooting becomes takes on new significance. If Cheney was in any way impaired at the time of the shooting, it was certainly to the vice president's advantage put off the official investigation until the next morning [...] Up to now, the whole "hunting-accident" controversy has been little more than a diversion from more serious matters involving Cheney -- not least among these, the investigation into whether the vice president authorized the release of classified information as part of a scheme to discredit critics of the administration's rush to war. But if Cheney used his Secret Service unit to prevent a necessary and proper official inquiry at a time when it might have uncovered relevant information regarding his condition when he shot a man, then the vice president has abused his office in a most serious manner.

John Nichols is author of the book "The Rise and Rise of Richard B. Cheney: Unlocking the Mysteries of the Most Powerful Vice President in American History".

Posted by: SecularAnimist on February 15, 2006 at 3:14 PM | PERMALINK

The point is, these kinds of mistakes are indeed very rare, and absolutely demand an explanation. - posted by frankly0

They might be rare, they might be not. I don't have a clue. What I do know, however, is that the guy is the freaking vice president of the United States of America! And he shot a man in the face! He is in his right to deflect press scrutiny and handle matters to avoid undue legal burdens as a private citizen, but he is not simply a private citizen. He is second in line to the most important post of your government. I simply cannot understand how people can actually defend they way he handled this so far. He works for you! And he shot a man in the face! Of course this was an accident, but he shot a man in the face! He had a medical team to take care of the guy, so how come he couldn't spare any time showing some respect to the American people, to whom he is employed, by explaining what had happened? After, let me see if I got this right, shooting a man in the face?

Posted by: Brazil Connection on February 15, 2006 at 3:14 PM | PERMALINK

If no one got a blow job, it doesn't matter.

Well Cheney and Whittington were spending the weekend with two women who were not their wifes.

Posted by: mikeca on February 15, 2006 at 3:14 PM | PERMALINK

Did Kevin Drum mention the Zapruder film?

Posted by: Monkey See on February 15, 2006 at 3:14 PM | PERMALINK

Clearly they were hunting enemy combatants in orange suits with depleted uranium birdshot. Cheney's cardiac implant misfired causing his adrenal gland to empty pushing him over the edge from his normal ultra-paranoid to super-duper-ultra-paranoid. He dropped to the ground and started shooting at members of his own hunting party who stupidly were also wearing orange. Most of the members were used to this and were able to dive for cover, but Harry -- because of dimmed intellect, slow reflexes, or a desire to help the fallen vice president -- stayed standing or according to some accounts even walked toward the prone gunman. After the shot, three secret service agents attempted to tackle the VP and received serious injuries from the shotgun which Cheney was at that point swinging like some sort of martial arts stick. They are credited with saving Whittington's life.

It took 18 hours for the remaining combatants to be captured or thrown into refrigerator trucks and almost that long for Cheney's pupils to return to normal size. Rove decided that Cheney was too jumpy to talk to the sheriff, president, or the press in the intervening time.

Posted by: ranaaurora on February 15, 2006 at 3:15 PM | PERMALINK

Jesus' General writes Arlen Specter a letter about The Magic BB Theory

Posted by: MonkeyBoy on February 15, 2006 at 3:17 PM | PERMALINK

Steel shot is used for waterfowl hunting, because accumulations of lead in a relatively contained ecosystem such as a pond or wetlands could become problematic. Most, maybe all, states now require the use of steel or some other non-toxic material shot when hunting waterfowl.

There is no such requirement for upland game, where lead is the material of choice. It's a fair guess that Cheney was using #7 1/2 shot on his hunt, which is not available in anything other than lead. The smallest size steel shot available, #6, would not be appropriate for quail. In case anyone's wondering, there is virtually no question at all as to the composition of the birdshot that hit Whittington: it was lead.

Posted by: greggy on February 15, 2006 at 3:19 PM | PERMALINK

i'll second cld re HerrBill at 2:33 PM and the defib "hiccupp" as an alternative explanation to carelessness than drinking. not that it excuses anything, and it would raise questions about Cheney's health and ability to stay in office. 'course, being dumb enough to hunt while drunk raises questions about a person's fitness for Veep.

cue Mike K and Al discussing how they always go hunting three sheets to the wind. {{i'm beginning to think they're the same computer program}}

Posted by: e1 on February 15, 2006 at 3:23 PM | PERMALINK

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/breaking_news/13871858.htm

You missed this though. According to this timeline the trigger was pulled at 6:30 sunset was 5:30. Apparently the talk now is (Brit Hume what are teh chances) the shooting was at 5:00. Who is telling the truth.

Posted by: tb on February 15, 2006 at 3:24 PM | PERMALINK

What's conceivably wrong is the presumption that Cheney had been drinking. Much as I hate to act as the attorney for his defense, let's face it: this is a severely deteriorated cardiac patient, whose doctors have almost certainly urged him not to drink at all.

Don't doctors still recommend one or two drinks per day for people with heart disease? I have relatives with a history of heart attacks that drink red wine every day.

Posted by: ranaaurora on February 15, 2006 at 3:28 PM | PERMALINK

Brazil Connect:I simply cannot understand how people can actually defend they way he handled this so far.

alot of us here can't understand that either

He works for you!

i don't think Cheney agrees with that assessment. imperial presidency and all.

Posted by: e1 on February 15, 2006 at 3:28 PM | PERMALINK

Apologies if this is a repeat--I admit I haven't read every comment--but didn't CNN report that Ms.Armstrong told the press without authorization from Cheney? What are the odds that they hoped to tough it out in silence?

Posted by: Buce on February 15, 2006 at 3:29 PM | PERMALINK

What kind of hunter hunts at the end of the day?
Over the decades that friends and I have gone hunting, we always got up around 5am.
We started this early in all of Missouri, Nebraska Montana, and Wyoming, whether for pheasant, ducks, or mountain grouse.
What kind of hunter lazily starts at the end of the day rather than the beginning.
I only know one hunter who probably hunted so late
-- in Montana, he'd roll down the windows of a Jeep Wagoneer while driving down a game trail, then the hunters would all start firing out the vehicle's four windows.

When hunting birds, we always hunted in one direction, with a couple dogs in front scaring up the birds.
What kind of hunter shoots birds behind him,
possibly scared up by fellow hunters?
What kind of hunter shoots close to the horizon,
rather than giving up the shot as too dangerous?

Having lived for several years in Wyoming, I wonder if Cheney really came from the city.
Oh, I guess he did, Cheney was born in Lincoln, Nebraska, where my parents retired.
After a few years making a go in Lincoln, my uncle returned to Broken Bow, Nebraska (population 3000) -- the big town of Lincoln was too much city for him. My guess is Cheney is more city folk pretendin' to be country folk -- Cheney has dishonored country folk.

Posted by: Jim Burt on February 15, 2006 at 3:29 PM | PERMALINK

But doctors are usually much harder to suborn. What pressure exactly do they use to get otherwise uninvolved people to go along with the spin?
Posted by: Cranky Observer on February 15, 2006 at 3:08 PM | PERMALINK

These doctors also treat Rush Limbaugh?

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on February 15, 2006 at 3:32 PM | PERMALINK

"spending the weekend with two women"

How dare you imply such a thing about Pamela Pitzer Willeford, our Ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein. Why she raised over $23,200 for the Bush-Cheney campaign and she donated to the Florida recount.

After being appointed by Gov Bush to lead the way on education in Texas, she worked hard to "Close the Gap". She was at the ranch of the former Ambassador to Britain and Halliburton board member, to try to "Close the Gap" with Dead-Eye, er on educational matters and the Coalition of the Willing. We need more Swiss Army knives for the troops. Liechtenstein banks need more of Halliburton's money. It was a business trip.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on February 15, 2006 at 3:36 PM | PERMALINK

ABC TV will air Saddam Hussein tapes tonite, where Saddam evidently spoke about striking Washington D.C. with WMDs.

In other news, Kevin Drum has spent hours obsessing about Dick Cheney's hunting accident.

Posted by: Monkey See on February 15, 2006 at 3:41 PM | PERMALINK

muckadoo

Posted by: Frank J. on February 15, 2006 at 3:42 PM | PERMALINK

What WMDs?

Posted by: Eazy on February 15, 2006 at 3:43 PM | PERMALINK

Bottom line: conspiracy theories are more fun.

Posted by: Jimm on February 15, 2006 at 3:43 PM | PERMALINK

Well, Cheney apparently did the decent thing, and took the blame for the shooting, in his interview with Brit Hume.

Good for him.

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on February 15, 2006 at 3:45 PM | PERMALINK

Apparently the talk now is (Brit Hume what are teh chances) the shooting was at 5:00

If they want to massage the timeline backwards they're then pushed into explaining why it took 2:20 for the ambulance to arrrive to a shooting incident. Also, they can't say a party that has a medical team that travels with a VP is lacking in communications gear.

Posted by: TangoMan on February 15, 2006 at 3:47 PM | PERMALINK

Cheney has dishonored country folk.

Cheney dishonors sportsmen and women.

Posted by: Tripp on February 15, 2006 at 3:50 PM | PERMALINK

"You missed this though. According to this timeline the trigger was pulled at 6:30 sunset was 5:30. Apparently the talk now is (Brit Hume what are teh chances) the shooting was at 5:00. Who is telling the truth."

Sorry, but as the website indicates "all times are EST." That puts the shooting at 5:30 local time. The US Naval Observatory web site shows that sunset was actually around 6:20 local time, or nearly an hour after the shooting.

Posted by: cmp on February 15, 2006 at 3:52 PM | PERMALINK

Did anyone search the limousine Cheney and his hunting pals were riding in?

I'm guessing you would find Jeff Gannon on his knees "praying" for their salvation?

Posted by: Jay in Oregon on February 15, 2006 at 3:56 PM | PERMALINK

this was posted right below the Byron York clip

"GOOD NEWS [JPod]

Harry Whittington is sitting up, eating normally and plans to do some work today even though he's still in the intensive-care unit."

can that possibly be satire, or do they expect us to take that seriously??? Posted by: e1

"This just in Generlissimo Francisco Franco is still dead."

Posted by: Jeff II on February 15, 2006 at 3:56 PM | PERMALINK

I think that after 4 heart attacks, Cheney's doctors probably kept him off of alcohol

except that Cheney admits to having had a beer with lunch (BBQ) that day.

he even scorns his doctor's advice.

Posted by: cleek on February 15, 2006 at 4:07 PM | PERMALINK

Check it out...

http://www.politopics.com/uploaded_images/cheney-741933.JPG

The man is lethal....lethal!!

Posted by: Fitz on February 15, 2006 at 4:07 PM | PERMALINK

Cheney is actually pulling the old "I only had one beer" defense!!!

Good god-isn't that what everyone pulled over for DUI says? Does Cheney ever watch COPS?

At the time of the shooting, did Cheney have a shirt on? Cause on COPS it's always the shirtless guy getting busted.

Posted by: Martin on February 15, 2006 at 4:09 PM | PERMALINK

I don't trust Cheney's doctors. We need another opinion.

Someone send a video to Bill Frist -- he'll tell us the real story.

Posted by: pj_in_jesusland on February 15, 2006 at 4:15 PM | PERMALINK

Without a doubt there was drinking involved which is why the local law enforcer that DID show up that night was turned away by the Secret Service. They needed time to dry out the VP and get their stories straight. What happened leading up to the shot heard round the world? I see it like this:

During a break from sodomizing their mistresses the two men head out to the pens to slaughter some quail. A little drunk the talk returns to the troubles the administration is facing, irritating Dick something fierce. Whittington decides to poke some fun thinking it harmless, not realizing the effect it is having on the drunken, and now angry Cheney. Being an agressive bully most of his life Cheney is used to crossing lines and decides to give Whittington a little scare and carelessly aims his gun in the elderly mans direction. A sudden explosion punctuates the Veeps snarling rejoinder much to everyones surprise, even Dick. What was meant to be a forceful statement to the 78 year old man to shut the fuck up has now become a shooting. Now the cover-up kicks into high gear...

I don't doubt that the shooting WAS unintentional. I do suspect that the events surrounding the shooting would be devestating to Cheney personally and Bush by extension, which is why we can never know them. Better to let us invent our own narratives so they can dismiss them as conspiracy theories. That way WE become the ridiculed and Cheney... he slithers away perhaps a bit more cautious, but likely not.

Posted by: Eric Paulsen on February 15, 2006 at 4:16 PM | PERMALINK
Are we seriously supposed to believe that Bush thought it was good idea to lay low and not tell anyone about the incident even though Cheney supposedly did nothing wrong?

You bet, Kevin. I absolutely believe Bush would go along with whatever Karl and Unka Dick told him they were going to do.

Posted by: Mr Furious on February 15, 2006 at 4:19 PM | PERMALINK

This is just another issue for that successful campaign you are all about to launch. Let's take a look at this platform:
1. Abramoff and the culture of corruption (which actually includes many dems.....oops)
2. NSA and dometic spying (this one I love)
3. Nothing is wrong with Social Security (this one will work well for you)
4. Prisoners at Gitmo are being treated poorly (another winner)
5. And Cheney accidently shot a freind and did not tell the almighty MSM immediately as he chose to tend to his freind instead. (keep trumping this one, I promise it will work really well)
6. And then of course there is the Iraq is a quagmire thing, and if there are any people on the planet that understand quagmires; it would be the democrats. And puhleease, put Dean, Pelosi, Kennedy and Sheehan on the podium as often as you can because they do represent the mainstream. Honestly.

Posted by: Jay on February 15, 2006 at 4:21 PM | PERMALINK

Apparently in the interview on Fox News Cheney keeps reiterating 'It wasn't Harry's fault', and Fox keeps replaying that bit.

No, it wasn't Harry's fault. We know that now.

Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 4:24 PM | PERMALINK

At what time was Harry admitted to the hospital?

Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 4:29 PM | PERMALINK

I'm pretty sure they were lying low because they thought the guy was going to die. As to what exactly they were doing, besides panicking... getting their stories straight? It's irresponsible not to speculate, ya know.

Posted by: scarshapedstar on February 15, 2006 at 4:29 PM | PERMALINK


but cld.....cheney kept saying he was on "private" time...

whatever that is....

so we have it on record....cheney thinks there is a time when as v.p....he is off the clock....

Posted by: thisspaceavailable on February 15, 2006 at 4:30 PM | PERMALINK

I'm still laughing at the Democratic Party Platform Jay posted above (4:21 PM).

(Actually, he didn't call it The Democratic Party Platform - I did.)

The bizarre thing is, about half the Moonbat Dems really believe those themes will lead the Dems to victory in 2006.

Posted by: Monkey See on February 15, 2006 at 4:31 PM | PERMALINK

At most, they might have signed off on a limit of one drink a day. He could disregard the advice, of course, but that would be very foolish.

This man did not quit smoking until his fourth bypass. Yes, you read that right. Fourth.

Posted by: shortstop on February 15, 2006 at 4:33 PM | PERMALINK

thisspaceavailable,

I had totally forgotten about Republican Private Time. That's the magical realm where anything can happen and we have all the time in the world. Becaue we own the clock company.

Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 4:36 PM | PERMALINK

Well, after all the mocking of Cheney I have done on this, I have to give the man kudos for admitting that it was his fault and, in his words, "the worst day of my life."

However, they will be backhanded kudos, as every time I give them I will remind people that this came five days after the incident, during which time the victim was blamed multiple times for the accident by Cheney surrogates. Go f--- yourself, Dick.

Posted by: mmy on February 15, 2006 at 4:40 PM | PERMALINK

I had totally forgotten about Republican Private Time. That's the magical realm where anything can happen and we have all the time in the world. Becaue we own the clock company.

There's also the magical realm of Republican Private Property, i.e. if it happens on a private estate owned by a large Republican contributor then law enforcement doesn't need to be called to the scene. What happens on the Armstrong Ranch, stays on the Armstrong Ranch.

Posted by: Stefan on February 15, 2006 at 4:41 PM | PERMALINK

The quail are raised by the federal government at Patuxent National Wildlife Refuge. Why are we paying for quail to be raised so they can be hunted on private ranches?

Posted by: Little Eddie on February 15, 2006 at 4:43 PM | PERMALINK

Exactly, at the Armstrong ranch the responsible people will already know all about it, so we shouldn't have any kind of government interference in our private stuff.

That could lead to activist judges.

Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 4:44 PM | PERMALINK

shush Jay, the grown-ups are talking.

Posted by: cleek on February 15, 2006 at 4:44 PM | PERMALINK

I don't care what you moonbats say, Cheney only shot one old man while Saddam killed hundreds of thousands! At least Cheney is still better than Saddam! And he only shot him, he didn't saw his head off like those terrorists that you libs love so much do!

Posted by: Stefan on February 15, 2006 at 4:50 PM | PERMALINK

is that what that is cleek? And all this time I thought it was just the liberals.

Posted by: Jay on February 15, 2006 at 4:50 PM | PERMALINK

Hang on, we're all on the wrong end of this, Dick was saving America from bird flu.

Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 4:51 PM | PERMALINK

So Cheney had been drinking, by his own admission, before and after the incident:

Cheney said he drank a beer with lunch the day of the shooting, according to his interview. The shooting took place about 5:50 p.m.

Armstrong had previously told CNN that she never saw Cheney or Whittington "drink at all on the day of the shooting until after the accident occurred, when the vice president fixed himself a cocktail back at the house."

Posted by: Jimm on February 15, 2006 at 4:52 PM | PERMALINK

This would be way cooler if the old guy had shot the fat guy.

Posted by: Chicago Typewriter on February 15, 2006 at 4:57 PM | PERMALINK

sportsnut, care to comment on dick's admission that he did drink before going on the hunt, and apparently poured himself a cocktail afterwards?

if he just had one beer, no big deal, depending on how soon after they went on the hunt. but we all say "one beer" or "two beers" when the cops are involved, don't we?

if dick had drank alcohol earlier in the day, but only one, why would he not want to meet the police and demonstrate he was sober? as part of PR due diligence and all? or did he plan on never mentioning the beer part, until armstrong let it slip accidentally?

Posted by: Jimm on February 15, 2006 at 4:58 PM | PERMALINK

"So Cheney had been drinking, by his own admission, before and after the incident."

What better way for a card-carryin' Rethug to recreate than boozin' and shootin'? I tell ya, there's no better time to be had. Oh, I forgot whorin'.

Posted by: Doofus on February 15, 2006 at 4:59 PM | PERMALINK

I dunno about any conspiracies, it just seems to me that this is a result of Cheney's lack of any sense of duty or obligation to the American people.

It is puzzling how a group of people who so deftly manage their message could handle this so spectacularly wrong. Getting bad news out in a clear and timely fashion is PR 101. Literally. I took a required survey course in PR right after the Tylenol murders, and their handling of the situation was used as a case study in Getting It Right.

My observation of this administration for the last 5 years leads me to believe it was a combination of arrogance and incompetence that led to this. They're fine on PR when it's a planned campaign, but jumping into action when something unexpected happens? Not so much.

Posted by: hamletta on February 15, 2006 at 5:00 PM | PERMALINK

At least Cheney is taking responsibility, however, and it's too bad he didn't speak earlier before the confusing facts and events had become publically talked about, so that it needed some form of explanation or denial, especially about the "beer".

The lesson to you kids out there is don't wait to be a "stand up" guy, because the longer you wait, the more rumour can get around about the nature of the case, and by the time you eventually own up to it, not everyone will believe that you're not just explaining away the known circumstances.

Posted by: Jimm on February 15, 2006 at 5:01 PM | PERMALINK

See Dick
See Dick with Gun
Run!
Run from Dick with Gun
Run Run!

Posted by: GunDick on February 15, 2006 at 5:02 PM | PERMALINK

The General is right--Whittington wasn't shot at 30 yards, he was shot at close range.

Hunters (and google) know how many grains of buckshot are in a standard round. If they hear a certain number of them were in Whittington, then they will also know if Whittington was 30 yards away like Cheney's people said, or just 5 or 10, or whatever.

It's one thing to accidentally shoot a guy who's far away. It's another to shoot one who's right on top of you.

And of course, it's one thing to accidentally shoot a guy. But when one lies about accidentally shooting a guy, people REALLY don't like it. Especially the red state base.

Being a dangerous hunter and being a guy who lies about a hunting accident hurts Cheney because it makes the base see him differently. It turns Cheney from "someone like us" to "holy crap, I know that guy and I don't fucking like him."

Posted by: theorajones on February 15, 2006 at 5:02 PM | PERMALINK

It is puzzling how a group of people who so deftly manage their message could handle this so spectacularly wrong. Posted by: hamletta

I think it's a little kind characterizing everyone within your sphere of control lying through his or her teeth for the better part of six years as "deftly manag(ing) their message." That is unless you pine for the days of the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany - the party must be protected and preserved at all costs!

Posted by: Jeff II on February 15, 2006 at 5:08 PM | PERMALINK

For the record, I personally don't see a problem with Dick having a beer with lunch before a hunting jaunt (even though I'm contemptuous of this whole hunting business in the first place). On his time off from work, he has every right as all of us to down some cold ones and have a good time.

His main problem right now is he waited too long to talk, which raises doubts about whether he is really telling the truth, or just explaining away the known public circumstances surrounding the incident.

After all, we still have the censoring of Armstrong's quote about the "beer", in one of the first news stories, and only after it was noticed a few days later do we have an admission from Cheney of beer drinking.

Then, strangely, we get Armstrong following up saying she never saw Cheney drinking a beer before the hunt, but instead fixing a cocktail after the incident.

Posted by: Jimm on February 15, 2006 at 5:08 PM | PERMALINK

CMP Wow missed that ststaement that times were EST, guess i am no reporter. Also double checked on weather.com sunset looks to be around 6:10 so this shooting was not after dusk. Still very late in the day but not as drastically inept as I had first indicated. Sorry for the misdirection and thanks.

Posted by: tb on February 15, 2006 at 5:09 PM | PERMALINK

Just caught Brit Hume talking about it on Fox News. He looked absolutely wretched. Not just his usual wretched, but really shaken.

From this the obvious inference is Cheney is guilty as sin, and cooked as a quail.

Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 5:15 PM | PERMALINK

Then, strangely, we get Armstrong following up saying she never saw Cheney drinking a beer before the hunt, but instead fixing a cocktail after the incident. - Jimm

For those of you wondering just what it would take for the base to reject this criminal administration, there you have it. Apparently even shooting one of your own in the head won't do it.

Maybe if Cheney fucked him in the head wound?

Posted by: Eric Paulsen on February 15, 2006 at 5:15 PM | PERMALINK

My guess is that, at the bottom of all this, all you have is Cheney's stubbornness and penchant for secrecy, and unwillingness to admit having made any sort of mistake.

If he'd called his press office as soon as they'd gotten Whittington to the hospital, and told them to put something together for release that evening, and if he'd followed up by talking with the local law enforcement that evening, then holding a press conference the next day, my guess is we wouldn't still be talking about this.

The cover-up, and what it says about this Administration in general and Cheney in particular, IS the story here.

Posted by: RT on February 15, 2006 at 5:16 PM | PERMALINK

ABC TV will air Saddam Hussein tapes tonite, where Saddam evidently spoke about striking Washington D.C. with WMDs.

In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.


Posted by: Alf on February 15, 2006 at 5:20 PM | PERMALINK

So he went back to the house, slammed down half a bottle of scotch, then realized he might have to talk to a cop who might notice liquor on his breath?

Is that the story they're going with?

Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 5:21 PM | PERMALINK

Then, strangely, we get Armstrong following up saying she never saw Cheney drinking a beer before the hunt, but instead fixing a cocktail after the incident.

Nice. Shoot an old man in the face and then, instead of going to the hospital and waiting sick with worry like any normal person would do, instead go back home, mix yourself a nice drink and sit down to dinner.

Posted by: Stefan on February 15, 2006 at 5:22 PM | PERMALINK

Is that the story they're going with?

Perhaps. Or he might be telling the truth. The weird thing is the follow up Armstrong comment, since it's unclear that Cheney had admitted to drinking after the incident. Is this a case of the stories going awry again, and, if so, an attempt by Armstrong to cover for him?

We'd need to know the timing of Cheney's interview and Armstrong's follow up.

Posted by: Jimm on February 15, 2006 at 5:23 PM | PERMALINK

Where's Lynne Cheney? Why isn't she out front defending her hubby? Is it a "mistress problem"?

Posted by: Doofus on February 15, 2006 at 5:27 PM | PERMALINK

We've got some very strange voodoo swirling around.

The pellets are hard to locate? C'mon. I bet even I could spot the pellets on an xray. What was Cheney shooting, ice pellets that melt after impact?

I don't think so.

And how many people were in the shooting party? Who were they? Where were their spouses?

And was there drinking? No? Or, yes, before but not after? After?

How close do you need to be to shoot a 28 guage shotgun pellet through a 78 year old's jacket, sternum and into his pericardium?

Posted by: Tripp on February 15, 2006 at 5:27 PM | PERMALINK

For instance, I haven't seen the "cocktail afterwards" part from Armstrong anywhere but the CNN article, so I'd wonder if an enterprising journalist caught up with Armstrong and mentioned that Dick had admitted to drinking on the day in question, but left out the details of the admission, and she responded that she'd only seen him drink after the incident.

Posted by: Jimm on February 15, 2006 at 5:28 PM | PERMALINK

Of course, CNN states that Armstrong had "previously" told them that she hadn't seen Cheney drink until after the incident, so the above scenario is not valid.

Now I want to know why CNN didn't tell us this detail before now.

Posted by: Jimm on February 15, 2006 at 5:31 PM | PERMALINK

Isn't Pam Willeford's husband a medical doctor?

I may be wrong, but I thought he was?

I read a post earlier that he was there on the ranch as well, so I was wondering.

Posted by: blech on February 15, 2006 at 5:33 PM | PERMALINK

Is anyone aware of CNN previously reporting that Armstrong saw Cheney drinking after the incident?

Posted by: Jimm on February 15, 2006 at 5:33 PM | PERMALINK

Also, now that Cheney has admitted to having a beer, I'd also like to hear from the news organization in question (that ran the story and pulled the Armstrong quote about "beer") why they did so.

Posted by: Jimm on February 15, 2006 at 5:35 PM | PERMALINK

Why do I have the feeling that Cheney's claim that he drank only one beer is about as believable as the claim that he shot Whittington at 30 yds?

Translating from Dickspeak to English, I'd multiply the number of beers by at least three, and divide the 30 yds by at least 3.

Posted by: frankly0 on February 15, 2006 at 5:35 PM | PERMALINK

He is "sitting up in a chair, eating regular food and actually plans on doing some of his attorney work in his room today," Banko said.

Maybe he's licking his lips and can't wait to draw up his personal injury settlement.

Posted by: Jimm on February 15, 2006 at 5:38 PM | PERMALINK

I think the conspiracy theory goes something like Whittington was threatening to expose Cheney's collusion with the Greys, and the multi-decade space alien snow job, and so needed to be taken out. But Cheney had been drinking, and half-missed his target.

Your version reads like common sense, not conspiracy theory.

Posted by: The Blue Nomad on February 15, 2006 at 5:41 PM | PERMALINK

I;m no doctor but isn't Cheney's heart gone through several surgeries and attacks in the last 10-15 years? I would imagine that he probably has to take a dozen pills a day to help out. Would a beer or three be enough to make him feel all fuzzy?

Posted by: No MD on February 15, 2006 at 5:42 PM | PERMALINK

I don't see the timeline as described here,


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=anqbLtTWWwr4&refer=us


as having any large discrepencies.

Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 5:43 PM | PERMALINK

How appropiate that the crook Dead-Eye was firing on property orginally bought with bounty money. John Armstrong was a Texas Ranger in 1882 and brought in John Wesley Hardin - took the $4,000 reward and started the ranch.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on February 15, 2006 at 5:51 PM | PERMALINK

The pellets are hard to locate? C'mon. I bet even I could spot the pellets on an xray. What was Cheney shooting, ice pellets that melt after impact? I don't think so. osted by: Tripp

I thought this was nonsense as well when they were interviewing a cardiologist last night on NPR about the pellet near the heart. He made the same statement. Utter crap. I've got surgical staples in my chest that show up like neon signs on my X-rays. Steel or lead pellets will most certainly be visible on an X-ray. I guess the real issue could have been that there were so damn many of them that they couldn't tell for sure how deep any of them were, and didn't go after any other than those at the surface.

Posted by: Jeff II on February 15, 2006 at 5:51 PM | PERMALINK

Blue Nomad
-are those the same Greys that CVB is talking aobut on New Roman Times?

Posted by: URK on February 15, 2006 at 5:55 PM | PERMALINK

"Suddenly, a covey of quail flushes and Cheney wheels around to track them. Unfortunately, Whittington comes into his line of fire, no more than 30 feet away by the looks of his subsequent injuries, but the sun is in Cheney's eyes and his reflexes are dulled from alcohol, so he pulls the trigger anyway".
I find it exremely unlikely that a covey of quail would be behind Cheney. They would have flushed as the hunters approached them. Also, the quail would be up in the air before the hunter would have time to aim and shoot. To shoot someone on the ground suggests more than a "hunting" accident.
Glenn

Posted by: Glenn on February 15, 2006 at 6:00 PM | PERMALINK

After checking around on all Armstrong's stories (good work at DailyKos on this), she has been all over the place. She seems almost transparently to be covering up this story since it started.

Posted by: Jimm on February 15, 2006 at 6:18 PM | PERMALINK

another word out of you Jay, and you're going to bed without supper. now shush.

Posted by: cleek on February 15, 2006 at 6:21 PM | PERMALINK

The pellets are hard to locate? C'mon. I bet even I could spot the pellets on an xray. What was Cheney shooting, ice pellets that melt after impact? I don't think so. osted by: Tripp

Actually, I can kind of understand the argument that the PRECISE location may be difficult to determine, in the sense of the 3D coordinates -- a frontal view would show only whether the pellets were located in two dimensions, leaving out the crucial dimension of depth. And a side view might be very confusing because it would be hard to match up the visible pellets with those visible from the front. Still, I'd expect a series of well designed x-rays would give a pretty clear sense of approximate location of the most dangerous pellets.

On the other hand, the notion that they could not count the NUMBER of pellets is beyond belief.

Posted by: frankly0 on February 15, 2006 at 6:24 PM | PERMALINK

Why do I have the feeling that Cheney's claim that he drank only one beer....

It will be interesting to hear if he actually said "only one beer." I had Fox on for two minutes earlier. Brit Hume was being interviewed about his interview by some pretty-boy anchor (I don't know these people) who was all, "Ooh, what was it like, Brit? Did you pop your Levis in the presence of such manly resolution?"

Hume said proudly, like he'd done something enormously courageous, "I asked him if he was drinking and he said he had one beer at lunch." Naturally, Pretty Boy didn't follow up by saying, "And did you ask him if he had anything additional after lunch?"--which would have been my first question. I'm sure Cheney did have one beer at lunch. Then he may have had a pint of bourbon during the afternoon.

It's all in the follow up. These morons don't have it, and they don't want it, either.

Posted by: shortstop on February 15, 2006 at 6:28 PM | PERMALINK

Whittington remains in the ICU "for the privacy".

A few months ago I had occasion to visit my mother in an ICU. There's no privacy.

Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 6:29 PM | PERMALINK

I'm just wondering...why is this important?

Posted by: Alexander Wolfe on February 15, 2006 at 6:37 PM | PERMALINK

In the interview Cheney describes Whittington as standing in a 'depression or gully', rather below ground level, which does help to explain why he might have been harder the usual to see, but doesn't alter the fact, as we read earlier, that shooting at quail less than ten feet off the ground is illegal.

Cheney's shot must have been technically right at the ground.

Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 6:38 PM | PERMALINK

Whoops, look at the time. I missed the veep's lie-fest.

Posted by: shortstop on February 15, 2006 at 6:39 PM | PERMALINK

Karl Rove is behind the PR blitz, and true to form, it is dazed and confused. The man is a low-life idiot with powerful friends. No genius, just evil. Rove's purported long-time mistress has ties to Armstrong who he has on speed-dial.


So, poor Whittington has been outted with his possible mistress because he was shot by Cheney who was with his presumptive mistress who, while interviewed early on, is nowhere to be seen.
What we know:
Whittington was badly hit by a shotgun at much closer range than they admitted.
Cheney had been drinking by his own admission.
He was on a lobbying trip at taxpayer expense.
He took part in a cruel killing ritual of defenseless hand-raised TAME birds.
Was on a Valentine's weekend outting with a woman other than his wife.
Covered up his involvement for as long a time as he could.
His temper is legendary (ask Gen Dugan)
Armstrong lied about her knowledge of the incident
Armstrong has powerful ties to the administration and may have been a weekender for one of the "hunters" too. Stayed at Crawford Ranch with Laura and GWB.
Doctors have been spinning lies
McClellan has been spinning lies

When did Cheney eat BBQ? What time did the shooting really take place? Was this a crime of passion? What was the business Whittington was on? (firing the VP?--if so, a loaded shotrgun was not the best way to broach the subject).

The administration has melted down in a white-hot way. This is the story that connected with the base about how amoral, immoral, and dirty these guys can get. Paramours, booze, tame-bird hunting, lying, callous, idiotic entitled SOBs.

And when then end came, it was with a bang AND a whimper.

Posted by: Sparko on February 15, 2006 at 6:42 PM | PERMALINK

...Rove's purported long-time mistress...

Oh, now, why'd you have to go and put that image in our heads?

Posted by: shortstop on February 15, 2006 at 7:04 PM | PERMALINK

Oh, now, why'd you have to go and put that image in our heads?

Yeah, and fired at close range, too...

Posted by: floopmeister on February 15, 2006 at 7:05 PM | PERMALINK

For almost a decade now I've been laughing at the wacked out conspiracy stuff like Cathy O'Brien's Trance Formation in America, and the stuff she wrote about Cheney and his addiction to hunting humans in "The Most Dangerous Game", but now...

I mean, how do we know that they were hunting quail, maybe they were hunting Quayle. Has anybody seen Danny boy around lately? And maybe Cheney got a little trigger happy and hit someone that couldn't just be simply disappeared.

I used to think all that stuff was wacko and way out in left field, but now it's moving into center field and maybe moving in a little.

Posted by: Majun on February 15, 2006 at 7:08 PM | PERMALINK

well the libs are foaming at the mouth over this one.........
Rove is brilliant.

Posted by: Jay on February 15, 2006 at 7:11 PM | PERMALINK

sparko, the moan follows the bang, you should know that

Posted by: Jay on February 15, 2006 at 7:13 PM | PERMALINK

Sure he is Jay. Go back to masturbating.

Posted by: Eric Paulsen on February 15, 2006 at 7:13 PM | PERMALINK

For almost a decade now I've been laughing at the wacked out conspiracy stuff like Cathy O'Brien's Trance Formation in America, and the stuff she wrote about Cheney and his addiction to hunting humans in "The Most Dangerous Game", but now... I used to think all that stuff was wacko and way out in left field, but now it's moving into center field and maybe moving in a little. Posted by: Majun

That kind of shit still is "left of field." The evidence is actually more pedestrian and damaging in the real world, where I live.

1) Cheney's there with a woman other than his wife.

2) Cheney's been drinking while hunting.

3) Cheney is either drunk, negligent or some combination thereof, and shots someone at close range.

4) The authorities are not allowed to interview Cheney or anyone else for that matter involved.

5) No official statement until 18 hours after the incident.

6) The "hostess" can't keep her story straight.

7) The doctors are less than forthcoming about the victim's medical condition.

You don't need to add any aliens or anything else to make this story odd.

Posted by: Jeff II on February 15, 2006 at 7:15 PM | PERMALINK

are you watching Eric?

Posted by: Jay on February 15, 2006 at 7:16 PM | PERMALINK

no jeff II, just give it to the liberals. They make everything wierd.

Posted by: Jay on February 15, 2006 at 7:18 PM | PERMALINK

Why would I want to watch Eric masturbate? You are a strange little man, aren't you.

Posted by: floopmeister on February 15, 2006 at 7:19 PM | PERMALINK

Jay: Tell Karl Howdy for all of us. Fitzgerald may indict him tomorrow or Friday; checks to bloggers such as yourself may start bouncing.

Posted by: Sparko on February 15, 2006 at 7:23 PM | PERMALINK

From the transcript, it would appear that Rove had little to do with the orchestration. Cheney answers to no one. Twiggie does not have a need to know. Cheney, his Scooter replacement, Matalin and staff conducted the coverup of the shooting of d'asCoyne.

For anyone out there who ever questioned the fact that Cheney runs this administration, need look no further. He, not Rove, is the Master Puppeteer.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on February 15, 2006 at 10:16 PM | PERMALINK

As to who these folks are and what their relationship to Uncle Dick & Co. is:


http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2006/02/15/cheney/

Shoot first, avoid questions later

By Sidney Blumenthal
.....
Both the vice president and the deputy chief of staff, as it happens, owed their previous, lucrative jobs in the private sector to their relationships with the Armstrong family. Anne Armstrong, Katharine's mother, was on the board of Halliburton that made Dick Cheney its chief executive officer. Tobin Armstrong, Katharine's father, had financed Karl Rove & Co., Rove's political consulting firm. Katharine herself is a lobbyist for Houston law firm Baker Botts, a major Texas power broker since it was founded in the 19th century by the family of James A. Baker III, the former secretary of state and close associate of George H.W. Bush's.

Katharine Armstrong took up lobbying after her recent divorce. Her contracts include Parsons, a construction firm that has done work in Iraq, among others. Her business partner, Karen Johnson, a close friend of Rove's, does extensive business with the State Department, the U.S. Agency for International Development and defense contractors. But Armstrong's protestations to news media that she does not lobby Cheney should probably be taken at face value given her background.

Katharine Armstrong is linked to two family fortunes -- those of Armstrong and King -- that include extensive corporate holdings in land, cattle, banking and oil. No one in Texas, except perhaps Baker, but certainly not latecomer George W. Bush, has a longer lineage in its political and economic elite. In 1983, Debrett's Peerage Ltd., publisher of "Debrett's Peerage and Baronetage," printed "Debrett's Texas Peerage," featuring "the aristocrats of Texas," with the King family noted as the "Royal Family of Ranching." The King Ranch, founded by Richard King in 1857, is the largest in Texas, and its wealth was vastly augmented by the discovery of oil on its tracts, making the family a major shareholder of Exxon. The King Ranch is the model for Edna Ferber's novel of Texas aristocracy, "Giant."
......

Just the typical 'self-made' GOP 'have more' constituency in other words...

Posted by: CFShep on February 16, 2006 at 8:20 AM | PERMALINK

Has anyone asked the Abassador to Switzerland (also a witness - but rarely mentioned) what happened? She was withing yards of the incident. She is a public official. Has any enterprising reporter tried to contact her? Has she refused comment? If so, why? If not, WTF are our world class "reporters" doing exactly?

Posted by: DVW on February 16, 2006 at 9:19 AM | PERMALINK

Just to round out the theory about the conspiracy. Sheriff Ramon Salinas III and Game Warden Jason Duke reported in writing that intoxication was not an issue. Armstrong said so too, but then sort of didn't. When she didn't, MSNBC reported drinks but then the VPs office contacted MSNBC and pointed to the Sheriff's report so MSNBC pulled it. Then Cheney fessed up to one beer so MSNBC restored the drinks report and further reported the VP's office's reliance on the Sheriff's conclusion. So now the Sheriff and the Game Warden have some explaining to do. So does the SS squad for making a next-day appointment with the Sheriff and so does whoever turned the Sheriff's officer away at the ranch gate, be that SS or Armstrong people. Armstrong also says Cheney had a cocktail after the shooting. Nice way to mask at least one beer just in case the Sheriff can't be run off in order to avoid an alco test. A sober Cheney would have begged to be tested soonest precisely to avoid any suggestion he was boozed up.

Posted by: AlanDownunder on February 16, 2006 at 10:01 AM | PERMALINK

In honor of the event, I wrote a poem/song about. I'm expecting a call from the Capitol Steps any day now...

http://www.kudzufiles.com/archives/000776.html

Posted by: Harry on February 16, 2006 at 10:37 AM | PERMALINK

Good un, Harry.

Bravo! Bravo!

Now one from The Master:

"The fascination of shooting as a sport depends almost wholly on whether you are at the right end the the gun." P.G. Wodehouse

Posted by: CFShep on February 16, 2006 at 10:44 AM | PERMALINK

Hey - I want to hear more about "that other woman"!

PS - Someone upthread said you don't get "peppered" into your heart, so I ask: would low-base #8 or so be able to work in far enough?

Posted by: Neil' on February 16, 2006 at 10:59 AM | PERMALINK

Why aren't these threads calling for an investigation of how ANY CITIZEN can turn the cops away from this kind of accident.

The VP is not a special class of citizen. If he were drunk and had SS agents turn the cops back at the door... that's an impeachable offense.

JUST THAT!! - nobody can tell the cops to take a hike if the local police want to question the principals and measure sobriety.

NOBODY!! -- none of this other chattering matters.

The Vice President shot somebody and refused to be interviewed [or tested for alcohol].

Impeach the fucker... and I am NOT a democrat. I am here as a recovering republican. I hate both parties... and this is not unlike the crap clinton pulled. These bastards think they are royalty.

They are all corrupt to the bone. They use the power of their respective offices to arrange cushy deals for their supporters.... and think they are above the law in situations like this.

The only conspiracy is that of SS officers helping the VP avoid the consequences of his mistake.

Period!! end of story! ... the SS is culpable because they probably saw the whole thing, and if Cheney was drunk -- they should either come forward and tell the public the truth or resign.

Posted by: Ashley on February 16, 2006 at 11:32 AM | PERMALINK

Good gosh. What a bunch of drivel.

1. Unfortunately, these kinds of accidents are not all that uncommon. I know a number of people who have been hit by shotgun pellets while hunting.

2. How did the pellet get to Mr. Whittington's heart? It migrated there. Pellets can easily move around inside the body. Just because it went it one place doesn't mean it won't end up someplace else.

3. "This couldn't have happened how they say because you don't shoot quail on the ground." Have any of you ever hunted quail before? Quail pretty much live on the ground. When they 'flush', they burst up and fly in all directions. See, they start on the ground and fly into the air. It would not be uncommon to shoot at a quail 4-6 feet off of the ground. It is not like duck or goose hunting where you are shooting at birds that are flying overhead.

3. Why the delay in reporting the accident? Most people, myself included, could really care less that we heard about this on Sunday evening instead of Saturday afternoon. The mainstream press is just mad that the little Corpus Christi Caller-Times got the story first and they didn't.

4. "Whittington is at death's door." From all acounts, Mr. Whittington is doing well and should recover fully.

5. "This story is keeping stuff like new Abu Graib photos 'off of the front page'" Well, it sure didn't keep me from hearing about the photos, etc. And if it is, it is the media's fault for making 'much ado about nothing'.

Posted by: Bah Humbug on February 16, 2006 at 1:44 PM | PERMALINK

Was VP Cheney alcohol-impaired? I seriously doubt it.

Are all car accidents alcohol-related? Absolutely not.

It sounds like VP Cheney and Mr. Whittington acted somewhat carelessly. The VP perhaps more so, since he was the one who fired the gun. But that is all.

The rest is just wild speculation by those looking for any reason to criticize the VP or the administration.

Posted by: Bah Humbug on February 16, 2006 at 1:55 PM | PERMALINK

Was VP Cheney alcohol-impaired? I seriously doubt it.

Are all car accidents alcohol-related? Absolutely not.

It sounds like VP Cheney and Mr. Whittington acted somewhat carelessly. The VP perhaps more so, since he was the one who fired the gun. But that is all.

The rest is just wild speculation by those looking for any reason to criticize the VP or the administration.

Posted by: Bah Humbug on February 16, 2006 at 2:14 PM | PERMALINK

I wish Dick would shot his load on my face and neck.

Posted by: Bah Humbug on February 16, 2006 at 7:42 PM | PERMALINK

"I wish Dick would shot his load on my face and neck."

Translation: "I've got no response. I can't think for myself. I've got no class. But I can be vulgar!"

---The Real Bah Humbug

Posted by: The Real Bah Humbug on February 17, 2006 at 3:32 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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