Does Cheney really think we wouldn't believe he shot a man?

What about blowing off the sheriff's deputy that evening, and the mixed couples angle? Do real quail hunters shoot with other guys' wives?

I wouldn't believe him. Still don't.

But whereas most dictator's arrogance and evil goes only to "10," his goes to 11.

Wonder what would happen if he started telling the truth, practiced real contrition, and swore off selfishness?

He was responsible for this shooting all right. But damned if we know all that entails. Enter the Swiss Ambassador, stage left.

Are they going to take my word for what happened?

And yet, that's exactly what he's asking us to do.

So he thinks that if he comes on Fox News and talks to Hume four days after the fact people will believe him?

Who ever said Hume was a journalist! He may have studied journalmalisim but he's no journalmalismist.

There's a report that Shooter (aka Big Time or Pig Heart) was drinking beer before going out hunting. I'll bet he drank the beer but didn't swallow it!

Seriously? Cheney's story is that his own credibility is so poor that a statement from him would have been worthless? Is he really going to stick to that as his explanation?

Once again liberals like Kevin Drum are attacking Dick Cheney even after he apologizes. Look at how much Cheney has already gone through and yet liberals still can't hold back their mean spiritedness and vicious against him. And not only Cheney but the constant liberal posturing has also hurt Whittington who only wants to be left in peace from the chorus of liberals. But the libs will never say sorry for they have put Dick Cheney and Whittington through.

Cheny to Hume: No, Karl talks to -- I don't recall talking to Karl. Karl did talk with Katherine Armstrong, who is a good mutual friend to both of us. Karl hunts at the Armstrong, as well --

He cannot recall a conversation that may or may not have occurred just during the last five days!

He must be suffering from Alzheimers or Dementia.

"Look at how much Cheney has already gone through and yet liberals still can't hold back their mean spiritedness and vicious against him. And not only Cheney but the constant liberal posturing has also hurt Whittington who only wants to be left in peace from the chorus of liberals. But the libs will never say sorry for they have put Dick Cheney and Whittington through."

Al's right! Knock it off, you liberals! Getting shock in the face and heart by the vice president doesn't hold a candle to what you liberals are doing to poor old Whittington! And when did it become "open season" on the vice president? Hasn't he suffered enough?

"Look at how much Cheney has already gone through"

Yeah, it is so very very very rough to shoot a 78 year old guy in the face and heart!

Why must you liberals be so very very mean? And Darth Vader -- he thought his wife was going to die! He just had to blow up those planets!

Did Hume ask him why he refused to talk to the sheriff's deputies until 18 hours after the event?

Why all this focus on the poor victim? Haven't you guys considered Cheney's feelings in all this? He feels awful, just awful that he's getting so much bad publicity.

Al: you are a parody too bizarre for words. I think you could be Cheney's next mistress.

I am hoping that Mr. Whittington survives to tell us what really happened, and then--maybe--we'll believe. But to Cheney, coercion is just the purest form of love.

By letting Armstrong break the story, Cheney had an opportunity to see how the notion of blaming in on Whittington would fly. When it became obvious that wasn't going to work, Cheney was free to make his own statement, taking more of the blame on himself.

Armstrong's statement became "inoperative" because it wasn't from Cheney.

See how it works?

Oops. I meant to write "getting shot in the face and heart by the vice president." See? You liberals are getting me all upset, too! Don't you have any decency? I can't even type properly around here!

Why is this important?

Like a man he apologized without mincing any words. This will be adequate for most people except the rabid partisans whose hearts are filled with hatred for those who spy on American people and send our kids to die in faraway land on the basis of false pretenses.

So it's off topic. So sue me. Just wanted to let you all know that the Danes are allright:

RISE IN DANISH EXPORTS TO US AND GERMANY OUTSTRIP ENTIRE EXPORT TO MUSLIM WORLD

Today's Jyllands-Posten says that the growth in 2006 in Danish exports to two countries alone is larger than our total export to the entire Muslim world. The two countries are Germany and USA, and the estimates are even made without considering the Buy Danish-campaigns, that are unfolding in these two countries. If they have an effect, it'll be an extra bonus.

"We must tell Europeans, we can live without you. But you cannot live without us," said Sheikh Youssef al-Qaradawi, a leading imam in Qatar.

Once again, Cheney lies to us. It's quite simple...he shot his friend in the face to impress his new mistress. Then they they all sat down to a nice dinner.

Cheney: Go Fuck Yourself!!! Go Fuck Yourself!!! Go Fuck Yourself!!! Go Fuck Yourself!!! Go Fuck Yourself!!! Go Fuck Yourself!!! Go Fuck Yourself!!! Go Fuck Yourself!!! Go Fuck Yourself!!! Go Fuck Yourself!!! Go Fuck Yourself!!! Go Fuck Yourself!!!

Hume: Thank you Mr. Vice President. Back to you Shepard.

In the interview Cheney describes Whittington as standing in a 'depression or gully', rather below ground level, which does help to explain why he might have been harder the usual to see, but doesn't alter the fact, as we read earlier, that shooting at quail less than ten feet off the ground is illegal.

Cheney's shot must have been technically right at the ground.

"Why is this important?"

Well, for one thing, it explains why the GOP doesn't talk about the "character" issue anymore.

Also? The Vice President of the United States shot someone. Through sheer thoughtless carelessness - and possibly while DUI.

How can that not be important? Esp. since everyone knows Cheney's the one who really runs the WH.

Did Hume REALLY ask Cheney if he hit a bird as well???

Why is this important?

For Cheney, this is the summation of his life's effort. Everything about his personality and outlook reduced to a single incident.

Finally, Hume suggested that since this was obviously a national story, Cheney should have informed the national press and gotten the word out sooner. Cheney's reply: "It isn't easy to do that. Are they going to take my word for what happened?"

Smart move there Dick. The woman you designated to tell your story credibly has changed her story about 3 times, and has made statements that can't be possibly be true on top of that.

Second, he said that he had held up issuing a statement because he wanted to make sure Harry Whittington was all right before saying anything. I don't even know what to make of this. Is he suggesting that his story would have been different if Whittington's injuries had been more serious?

This is perfectly consistent with a plan to lie -- or plead the 5th -- in the event Whittington died from his injuries and negligent homicide charges were filed.

It isn't consistent with any other rational explanation I can think of.

Brosz: The man does something incredibly callous and stupid, while engaging in something incredibly callous and stupid, but apologizes after he has been found covering up his acts and we're supposed to embrace him? He is a fraud, dissembler, and indifferent to anyone but himself.
But should his policies cause your life to collapse in a horrible calamity (as they have thousands of others), I do hope you remember that you were his champion. He will be sorry though and will have his people release a canned apology to you and yours.

Everything about his personality and outlook reduced to a single incident.

It is kind of funny that after all the fuckups, his life's work is going to be relegated to contents of a Trivial Pursuit question.

Why does this matter?
Yes, can we please go back to the days when the most pressing issues were haircuts, Travel Office, Love Story and Gore's choice of suit? This is just a VP who shot someone, probably with his mistress, probably while drunk, then tried to cover it up and blame the victim. And will probably not be held accountable in any of the ways us lowly citizens would be in a similar situation.

What shall we discuss? I know - Dukakis's goofy grin when he was riding a tank! Kerry's snowboarding! No - BOTOX!!!

The Daily Show said it best: the intelligence was there were quail in the brush,everybody thought there were quail in the brush and if Cheney had it to do it over,he would still shoot Whittington in the face.

According to an on air interview with an official with the Texas Fish and Wildlife, in Texas you are not required to report a hunting accident if no one died. However, a hospital that receives a shooting victim is required to report it. Which means that at least 2 hospitals should have reported the shooting Saturday night.

I wonder if Whittington was first brought to the dinky local hospital (in the heart of Armstrong country) in the hope that, if he really was just "peppered", they could keep the incident quiet. Someone from the Texas Monthly was interviewed by Keith Olberman. He said one thing he found curious was why Whittington was brought to this little hospital first. He stated that it would have been a long, gruelling trip for the ambulance over the unimproved rural roads to reach this place.

One other thing Cheney mentioned was that He, Whittington and the Swiss ambassador were accompanied by a guide who handled the dogs. Why hasn't this person been identified and interviewed?

Finally, Cheney stated that Whittington didn't respond to him and had only ONE eye open. This conflicts a tad with the initial description by Armstrong.

That was my first guess. They didn't want to tell the press while Harry's condition was still in question. They wanted instead to be able to play down the incident after Harry's condition had stabilized. Now on day five we found out that Cheney "peppered" his liver, heart, and larynx.

In other words he was much more seriously injured than Armstrong had let the press believe on Sunday. How many units of blood was he given? How many pellets was he hit with? What was the average penetraion? What distance was he shot from? Why exactly was he evacuated from the first hospital to a second by helicopter? Who made the decision?

Secondarily of course -- what was Harry's blood alcohol, does the VP regularily drink and shoot, does the VP drink before noon on work days . . . ?

This is important because it is evident that Cheney abused his authority as VP by ordering the Secret Service to interfere in the police investigation of the incident -- when the local police arrived that evening to talk to Cheney the Secret Service prevented them from doing so.

It hardly needs to be said that Brit Hume is a bought-and-paid-for Republican Party shill. It might as well have been Rush Limbaugh or Karl Rove himself interviewing Cheney. There is no "journalism" at Fox News. There is only robotic regurgitation of scripted, programmed Republican Party propaganda. This was as fake, phony, bogus, scripted, programmed so-called "interview". Brit Hume was probably literally handed a script by the White House and just read the questions from it, and Cheney recited his scripted replies.

Finally, Hume suggested that since this was obviously a national story, Cheney should have informed the national press and gotten the word out sooner. Cheney's reply: "It isn't easy to do that. Are they going to take my word for what happened?"

Seriously? Cheney's story is that his own credibility is so poor that a statement from him would have been worthless? Is he really going to stick to that as his explanation?

Well, no, clearly the subtext is that he was forced not to talk by "liberal media bias". You haven't learned to understand winger code well enough yet.

from an ABCnews story, quoted at RawStory,

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Daughter_of_shot_hunter_says_he_0215.html

"His daughter said after he was shot, the 78-year-old Republican supporter was unsure whether he was being taken to the hospital or the morgue."

Perhaps he thought Cheney meant it?

The Vice President of the United States shot someone. Through sheer thoughtless carelessness - and possibly while DUI.

Um, in which version of the story is there any indication that the VP was driving at the time of the shooting, whether under the influence or not?

"Hume never asked."

That's Fox News in a NUTshell, so to speak.
.

tbrosz,

Like a man he apologized without mincing any words. This will be adequate for most people

I think that Scottd's point is being glossed over:

By letting Armstrong break the story, Cheney had an opportunity to see how the notion of blaming in on Whittington would fly. When it became obvious that wasn't going to work, Cheney was free to make his own statement, taking more of the blame on himself.

Cheney's no stand-up guy. He was supposed to be the wise old man brought on board to temper the congential idiocy of President Bush and instead he's been at the center of this Administration's most colossal $#$%-ups. I do give serious thought to the proposition that his cognitive processes were diminished in some fashion by his health scares.

He was supposed to be the wise old man brought on board to temper the congential idiocy of President Bush

A job for which, it is important to recall, he selected himself.

this is the perfect campaign issue and I implore all democrats to add this to the list of winnable campaign measures including:
1. Being too harsh on Gitmo detainees
2. Nothing is wrong with Social Security
3. The Supreme Court is too far right
4. The Abramoff scandal (which includes Scary Reid.......oh wait.....)
5. We haven't given enough money to Katrina victims
And please send to the podium, Sheehan, Reid, Pelosi and Kennedy because they are very mainstream, I promise.
All of these very valid campaign issues and best voiced by your stellar representatives, unless of course you plan on winning

I'm actually a little freaked out the Vice President could vacation with lobbyists and girlfriends and shoot TAME Birds. Tame. That seems to peg out the twisted GOP meter to me.

It's important to remember that Dick Cheney, and not his sock puppet George W. Bush, is directly and personally responsible for the mass murder of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians in his illegal war of unprovoked aggression based on lies. And he simply doesn't care.

He doesn't care who he kills or how many people he kills. He is a genuine sociopathic killer, and, so far, one of the leading mass murderers of this young 21st century.

cmdicely,

A job for which, it is important to recall, he selected himself.

Good catch!

Um, in which version of the story is there any indication that the VP was driving at the time of the shooting, whether under the influence or not?
Posted by: cmdicely on February 15, 2006 at 7:24 PM | PERMALINK

Discharge of a weapon Under the Influence

You always have to remember to use your Dick-lator.

When Dick bullshits, he nearly always tells the truth technically, so you have to parse him a little bit. As with the WMD, he likely knows that a skilled interrogator may watch the tape and intuit he's lying, so he tells the truth, but makes up his own frame for it. Thus, the deception doesn't show. So, he's telling the truth about waiting to see Whittington's condition, but he translates the question in his head so that he's answering it in his own frame.

Why exactly was he evacuated from the first hospital to a second by helicopter? Who made the decision?

That was probably a medical decision that was made when the doctors at the small hospital realized he was much more badly injured than they had been told and that their facility could not treat him properly. They probably got him stabilized and then sent him to a facility that could actually treat him.

An airlift under those circumstances would not be unusual, especially with an elderly gunshot victim who hadn't just been lightly "peppered."

So, he's telling the truth about waiting to see Whittington's condition, but he translates the question in his head so that he's answering it in his own frame.

Also, the "one beer at lunch" is classic Cheney. How long did lunch last...15 minutes? What about the rest of the day? After lunch? Before lunch?

cmdicely, just to speculate a moment, suppose whittington dies in a few months, from a heart attack.

is a wrongful death suit possible under such circumstances?

Anti-Cheney sentiment in the White House gaining steam,

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20060214\ACQDJON200602141941DOWJONESDJONLINE000958.htm&

"NEW YORK -(Dow Jones)- A source described as close to the Bush administration said people inside the White House are "livid" about the way Vice President Dick Cheney's office has handled the hunting accident he was involved in over the weekend, CBS News reported Tuesday.

According to CBS News, the source said the issue was no longer Cheney's view of press management but rather about Iraq, Hurricane Katrina and a range of other issues that play into the public's view of the administration's arrogance."

Jay wrote: this is the perfect campaign issue and I implore all democrats to add this to the list of winnable campaign measures including ...

You are the perfect brain-dead, scripted, programmed, drivel-regurgitating, Republican ass-kissing Bush-bootlicking dumbass and I implore you to continue posting your stupid, inane comments so that everyone can laugh at the way you lick dogshit off the bottom of Bush's boot while he grinds it into your face and you whimper for more.

I would add SecularAnimist's characterization of Cheney as a genuine sociopathic killer of tens of thousands of Iraqis to Jay's list of winning Democratic positions for 2006. It ought to play well with middle America, particularly if SecularAnimist can be recruited to evangelize it.

Ooooh, boo hoo. Cheney's been through so much. Bwaaahh. I want to cry. Five or six draft deferments as a chicken hawk Vietnam war supporter, six or so pig heart transplants, lesbian daughter on the gov't payroll, several million dollar residences, raking in millions from Halliburton, crone duchebag wife who used to write boodice-ripping lesbian love novels. So sad, a real charity case. Fuck all the wingnut trolls.

secular, thanks for reminding me of the most important campaign issue; the illegal occupation of Iraq. That's a winner!!!!! please say that as loud and as often as you can because that issue needs to be at the top of the campaign. Full speed ahead.

secular, are you angry or stupid? My vote is both.

Second, he said that he had held up issuing a statement because he wanted to make sure Harry Whittington was all right before saying anything.

Here's my guess: The victim was 78 years old and probably not looking good. Cheney may have wanted to hold off on an announcement until the patient's condition improved, allowing Cheney to portray the accident as minor instead of major. Unfortunately, with a 78 yr old body and a load of lead, it must have taken a while for the patient to stabilize. Apparently, he still hasn't.

It might as well have been Rush Limbaugh or Karl Rove himself interviewing Cheney. There is no "journalism" at Fox News.

The way the right wing media strategy has been working, how long until Karl Rove really does become a TV journalist and/or reporter?

Imagine it...Really Hardball with Karl Rove.

red_neck_repub what have you got against lesbians on the government payroll. I thought you guys championed that issue. BTW, why do you hate lesbians?

cmdicely, just to speculate a moment, suppose whittington dies in a few months, from a heart attack. Posted by: howard

A few months? Shit, we don't even know what condition he's really in now. He in ICU. That can mean he's on life support.

Anti-Cheney sentiment in the White House gaining steam,

Okay, now I'm POSITIVE that this is all just a setup to divert attention from all the other negative news.

I mean, I'm sure that the accident was legitimate, and all - just the noise that's being made over what - let's be honest here folks, is not really all that big of a deal.

I mean - compare the accidental (even if in drunken negligence) shooting of a single 78 year old lawyer to the missing $9 Billion, Halliburton no-bid contracts, or the WMD lies, or the Plame outing to punish a whistleblower for the WMD lies, or 9/11, or Abu Ghraib, or every other fucking thing he's done.

I *do* give him credit for having the balls to go on national TV (even if it is the safe sandbox of FoxNews' fantasyland) - and taking the blame for the shooting, and apologizing, and especially, for NOT apologizing for the apparent coverup (though I don't think it was right for him to do that, I respect him for saying it was his call).

But at the end of the day, this story is just an absurd triviality when compared to all of his other crimes. I really think we (the left, not that I speak for the left or anything) are wasting valuable news cycles on something not at all worthwhile. In my mind, Cheney's interview is closure enough for me. Even if Whittington dies. Even if any of the conspiracy theories are true, we all know there's no way in hell that will ever come out or stick. This is a done deal. Time to MoveOn for Bob's sake.

Kevin P: It ought to play well with middle America

As a Bush supporter, you belong to an increasingly tiny cultish minority, and are by definition ignorant of what "middle America" thinks about anything.

Jay: thanks for reminding me of the most important campaign issue; the illegal occupation of Iraq. That's a winner!

It sure is. Look at the polls. Clear majorities of Americans now realize that Bush and Cheney lied about the reasons for going to war, clear majorities of Amricans want the troops withdrawn ASAP, and clear majorities of Americans would prefer that the Democrats take control of the Congress away from the Republicans this November.

You right-wing Bush bootlickers belong to a sick cult of personality built around worshipping a career corporate criminal, you live in a tiny bubble of Rush Limbaugh and Fox News and Little Green Fuckwads and Freak Republic propaganda, repeating the same bogus talking points to each other in a pathetic circle jerk, and you are totally out of touch with what is happening in this country, but you think you know what "middle Americans" think. You are a bunch of stupid, ignorant, mentally ill clowns and you are in for a rude, rude awakening.

that issue needs to be at the top of the campaign

You betcha, Jay. All those parents who are now left wondering why their sons and daughters are dead or maimed for this bitch of a war are going to be guffawing over that campaign issue. You're a fucking genius, you are!

red_neck_repub, that is something I could never say (and would never), but it was funny as hell. if you could bottle that, you'd be an instant milionaire, with all the folks who share your feelings on the matter.

I haven't seen the interview - was Brit wearing a blue dress?

Jay: secular, are you angry or stupid? My vote is both.

Are you twelve years old? Or maybe thirteen? My vote is twelve. Do your parents know you are using their computer?

For that matter, what is the deal with calling Cheney "pig heart"? Is this some kind of new insult for people with heart conditions? You must be one of these tolerant liberals.

And what's up with the mixed company angle? So men and women should now not socialize together? And women should not be ambassadors to Switzerland but should stay at home with their husbands only? You are starting to sound like the Saudis.

I despair that the Democratic Party will ever pull itself together to present a credible alternative to the Republicans.

Jay, you should follow Silent Bob's example.

That's it, all very winnable campign measures, run on it. I am a wondering though how all of you tolerant liberals can debate the conservatives point by point without resorting to name calling, I mean that is admmirable......oh wait......BTW, secular, you did answer my earlier question.

cmdicely, just to speculate a moment, suppose whittington dies in a few months, from a heart attack.

is a wrongful death suit possible under such circumstances?

Sure, along, probably, with criminal charges for negligent homicide; and, of course, a civil suit for negligence is possible without anyone dying.

But at the end of the day, this story is just an absurd triviality when compared to all of his other crimes. I really think we (the left, not that I speak for the left or anything) are wasting valuable news cycles on something not at all worthwhile. In my mind, Cheney's interview is closure enough for me. Even if Whittington dies. Even if any of the conspiracy theories are true, we all know there's no way in hell that will ever come out or stick. This is a done deal. Time to MoveOn for Bob's sake.
Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten

I disagree because of the possible sleaze element - broads and booze were obviously involved. I agree that in the larger scheme of things, it is small potatoes. But that's not the way the very small mind of America works. Anything that has a whiff of sexual misconduct (who in the world would want to be Cheney's side action - shudder - that's one fucked-up woman) is more interesting to the great unwashed (and disinterested) masses than all the "hard" stuff like lying about foreign policy and war and stuff.

Again, most Americans are not directly affected by the war in Iraq, so they don't care. Most Americans don't think they are affected by tax cuts for the rich.

Well…Its official.
A drunk Dick Cheney shot his buddy in the face and covered it up.

Should play well in 06, with the “hunting buddy of a drunk vice president vote”.

Call Mothers Against Hunting with A Drunk Vice-President
MAHADVP

I despair that the Democratic Party will ever pull itself together to present a credible alternative to the Republicans.
Posted by: Kevin P. on February 15, 2006 at 7:47 PM | PERMALINK

I despair that the real republican party will ever pull itself together to present a credible alternative to the neocon death-cult that has taken it over like an evil mind-control parasite from outer space.

Jeff II :

Anything that has a whiff of sexual misconduct (who in the world would want to be Cheney's side action - shudder - that's one fucked-up woman)

Hmmm, this seems like accusing the Ambassador to Switzerland of being an adulterous mistress ... I suppose this continues on in the tolerant liberal tradition...

Perhaps the ranch owner, a woman having the temerity to own a hunting estate can be accused of being the whorehouse madam?

Just trying to be helpful here.

I disagree because of the possible sleaze element - broads and booze were obviously involved.

But you'll never make it stick. There's no hard evidence, and if any such evidence surfaces, assume it's probably forged and planted by Rove.

There's more solid evidence of sexual misconduct in the Gannon case, because at least there, there's a logbook showing dozens of overnighters at the White House.

sparko, tango man: That's the fake tbrosz. You're arguing with with a parody. (insert one of thousands of possible jokes about how much that's like arguing with the real tbrosz.)this is almost as fruitless as arguing with Jay, who doesn't know he's a parody.

cmdicely: I think that Kevin's being purposefully, sarcastically disengenious about Cheney's explanation for the way this came out. It's pretty obvious that it's a swipe at the (supposedly) liberal media. QAs you suggest, it buys him time in case he needs to change his story. it also means that it goes out to a likely uncritical audience first, someone in the Armstrong's backyard who's probably too happy to get the national scoop to ask too many questions.

I think the question is still: When did the president know that Cheney was the triggerman? and if it was at 8pm that night (as we're told) and there was a dispute between "the White House" and Cheney about when to say something (as we're also told) then where was Bush in this dispute? -I mean, if he knew, then I don't see how "The White House" (as opposed to "some within the white house" for instance) could really have a different opinion. and, if this was a disagreement between the President and vice President, what does that tell us aobut who's in charge? I know, that's three questions, at least.

dang jeff II reminded me of another one: tax-cuts for the rich, how could I forget. You really have the start of a campaign that is a can't miss. Oh except in 2004, which missed badly and well, really is the same campaign. Nevermind. I wonder what Cindy Sheehan is doing?

Osama,

I had a similar thought, but repressed it; but I think it's right.

Unless the dog handler, or Whittington, or someone else who was on the scene says something different, this probably should be the end of it.

Or, give it to the end of the week, he is the Vice President, but so far it's nothing to invest in, outside the slight insight it allows into the Texas hooked-up Republican crowd.

But then I thought --he shot the guy. At closer than thirty yards because pellets went into his heart and liver.

And the guy was standing in a depression, so he had to be aiming at ground level when he discharged, which, someone pointed out, is illegal in quail hunting.

And he didn't have the permit on his hunting license, and how often had he been hunting without the right permit?

And he said he'd only become an avid hunter within the last twelve to fifteen years, that is, about when he started having serious heart problems, suggesting there was some notable cognitive alteration associated with the onset of that condition, either organically or through medication.

And his older friends have often in public stated how he has changed in recent years.

And he did once butcher a box full of tame pheasant --70 of them --at a single go.

And he tries to encourage torturing people whenever he can.

There's a lot wrong in this, and now that I think of it, I think this story kind of brings that out.

I hope that all PR specialists are meticulously watching this ongoing case study in how not to handle a given adverse situation. A series of rolling disclosures is every PR flack's nightmare.

I wouldn't have said this two days ago, given what the White House spokesman Scott McClellan told us initially about this tragic story, but I have a sneaking suspicion that there's a lot more here than they're willing to discuss. It was an accident, for sure, but does Cheney's behavior meet the legal definition of reckless endangerment?

Kevin P,

The liberal tradition is very tolerant, except of one thing, intolerance. No one should be above painting these sewer rats with their own paint brush.

Blaming the victim for the abuse? How politically incorrect and extremely intolerant, cld. And how insensitive to women! I am disappointed.

There's a lot wrong in this, and now that I think of it, I think this story kind of brings that out.
Posted by: cld on February 15, 2006 at 7:59 PM | PERMALINK

That may mean something to you and I, but unless you've got access to hard evidence that's going to lead further, I don't see this gaining traction.

Just in the interest of accuracy, Kevin - you said that B. Hume did not ask Cheney when he talked to Bush. According to the WaPo transcript of the interview, he did in fact ask him that question. Cheney said he talked to Bush on Monday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/15/AR2006021502005.html

Here's another tasty tidbit from the Austin American-Statesman (filed Monday):

Armstrong said Cheney visited Whittington at the hospital Sunday, and "they had a great time."

Whittington was alert, sitting up and being talkative Sunday, she said.

"It's all OK," Armstrong said. "It's not that big a deal. Even Harry will tell you that."

relder@statesman.com; 445-3671

For Mr. Cheney, is it 'not a big deal' or 'the worst day of his life'?

Jeff II :

Hmmm, this seems like accusing the Ambassador to Switzerland of being an adulterous mistress (as opposed to a chaste mistress?) ... I suppose this continues on in the tolerant liberal tradition...

If she's the ambassador to Swizterland, what she doing at a "ranch" outside a hell hole like Corpus Cristi? Gee, as a European-based ambassador I think finagling a trip to the Olympics on the American tax payers would be preferable to winter in Texas with that group. Gee, what's the attraction? Can't be the food, which would certainly be better in Torino.

Perhaps the ranch owner, a woman having the temerity to own a hunting estate can be accused of being the whorehouse madam? Posted by: Kevin P.

Don't know don't care. I favor legalized prostitution. It's up to Lynne (I'm my daughter's role model) Cheney to decide the propriety of the weekend. Oh, and, as I wrote, the court of public opinion. The VP isn't likley to find much sympathy with them for kind of hanky-panky. Or have you forgotten Bill Clinton's wardrobe malfunctions?

I am disappointed in you Jeff - you are weaseling out by punting the judgment of propriety to "the court of public opinion".

Allow me to quote you one more time:
Jeff II :

Anything that has a whiff of sexual misconduct (who in the world would want to be Cheney's side action - shudder - that's one fucked-up woman)

Stand behind what you wrote.

Another question Hume would have asked if he was a real journalist (as opposed to a Pravda / establishment image of a journalist):

If, as you now say, you were responsible for shooting your friend in the face and heart, why did the first two public statements, one from Armstrong and one from Matalin, BLAME WHITTINGTON when both of those people supposedly spoke to you, Mr. Cheney, before maing those statements? Matalin wasn't there -- where did she get the firsthand information she relayed, including the assertion it was Whittington's fault, not yours?

Dick Cheney spoke at the funeral of Katharine Armstrong's father, who is a "legendary" rancher and GOP honcho, and has hunted at the ranch frequently, so I'm not sure the mistress stuff is really applicable here. It's a huge ranch and hunting waystation for GOP dignitaries.

I'd ask Jay what on earth he thinks he's talking about, but I'm sure he can imagine most anything.

I can't believe you guys piling on poor old Dickie like this. The truth is he saved the dude's freakin' life, man!

If Cheney didn't travel with his own MASH unit Whittington would have died on the scene. So there you go, thanks to Dick's defective heart, he had a bevy of doctors and nurses right there on the ranch with him available to treat the terribly wounded Whittington.

The long delay in reporting the accident is no doubt to make sure Whittington had stablized. Their cover story that he was awake and not too badly injured has already been blown. The victim has been in the ICU for four days. There's no way in hell that Cheney and crew thought he was minorly injured on Saturday. They thought he was going to die.

That or their little party was just a reenactment of The Secret History.

Allow me to quote you one more time:
Jeff II :

Anything that has a whiff of sexual misconduct (who in the world would want to be Cheney's side action - shudder - that's one fucked-up woman)Stand behind what you wrote.
Posted by: Kevin P

I never said I didn't write that. In fact, I elaborated by finding it odd that, as ambassador to a European nation, that she's in Texas. Was she on vacation? Again, picking anywhere in Texas outside of Austin to visit is further proof that she's one fucked-up woman. And that she'd be there to hang with that crowd . . . Then again, she is a hardcore Republican. So by definition she's damaged goods beyond her taste in chickha . . . er, I mean "men."

Cheney finally talks!!! To Brit Hume!!! That took guts!!!

jeff II, why do you hate Texas?

Cheney finally talks!!! To Brit Hume!!! That took guts!!! Posted by: Shelly

Really!!!

No. Guts would have been sitting down with someone other than a GOP operative of Fox News. Guts would have been a press conference - his first ever.

However, Dick "Don't fuck with me" Cheney doesn't answer to anyone.

Kevin P.,

'Propriety' is the court of public opinion.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30742

The question is...who's next?

jeff....I guess you couldn't read my sarcasm...

C'mon guys don't lose your momentum on this one. This is a BIG story and future campaign issue. Full speed ahead....hey I wonder what Cindy Sheehan is doing?

Liberals can read?

Thanks for the clarification, Jeff. This gets better and better! You have managed to insult most Texans as well - many of them born Democrats.

Finally, Hume suggested that since this was obviously a national story, Cheney should have informed the national press and gotten the word out sooner. Cheney's reply: "It isn't easy to do that. Are they going to take my word for what happened?"

Translation: "I didn't know if I had actually killed the guy, so I waited to see if died so I would know if I needed an attorney present during any questioning."

Cheney understands the legal system.

ash
['If this was some non-vice-presidential personage, on the other hand, I'm sure the veeper would say he was guilty as hell.']

This must gain traction because this is the character issue. He only seems like someone sane, look twice and he's nuts.

If he weren't in high office, if he were the guy next door, would you want your kids to know him?

The Republican attitude toward our feathered friends,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,,1353911,00.html

A bird in the hand.

What are the drinking/hunting laws in Texas? Is there a zero tolerance for drinking while hunting?

I doubt that he was completely wasted, but to me, this is similar to a DUI incident. If Cheney had been drinking at all, and that was against the law, he knew he would have been in big trouble. That is why he avoided seeing anyone official until morning, so that he could not charged with being intoxicated.

Interesting that this could be like Watergate, where the coverup was or is more serious than the crime.

This just in...

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/02/14/news/106530.txt

Saddam use shotgun to kill enemys. man shot must be enemy. Evil Cheney try to kill man and make like assididnt. We like press because helps Muhajadene.

we like American protestors.

Apparently if there is an accidental shooting in the state of Texas, the victim and the shooter are both tested for alchohol. Why wasn't Cheney?

Well it appears as though this issue may be losing steam, much in the tradition of:
1. Bush lied
2. Abu Ghraib
3. Torture at Gitmo
4. Rathergate
5. Plamegate
and my personal favorite
6. Domestic spying
Just. Can't. Get. Traction.
Hang in there though, there is more baseless indignation in store. Full speed ahead.

The title of my next screenplay,

Good Dick Hunting

I want some of whatever Jay is smoking today.

If you look at the transcript, it seems like Cheney interprets the question "Was anybody drinking in this party?" to mean "Was anybody drinking at the exact same time you were hunting?" So, given that they didn't return to hunting until "sometime after 3:00 p.m.," about the best you could say is that they had left off drinking by 3 or so.

The Washington Post had an article about drunk driving arrests last New Year's Eve, and one of the commonest lines from people pulled over is that they "only had two beers." Police write this up as "The operator admitted consuming alcohol."

Theater of the absurd. From today's interview with Brit "GOP Lap Dog" Hume.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, it's a great relief. But I won't be, obviously, totally at ease until he's home. He's going to be in the hospital, apparently, for a few more days, and the problem, obviously, is that there's always the possibility of complications in somebody who is 78-79 years old. But he's a great man, he's in great shape, good friend, and our thoughts and prayers go out to he and his family.

Q How long have you known him?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I first met him in Vail, Colorado, when I worked for Gerry Ford about 30 years ago, and it was the first time I'd ever hunted with him.

Q Would you describe him as a close friend, friendly acquaintance, what --

THE VICE PRESIDENT: No, an acquaintance.

Just. Can't. Get. Traction.

Let's see. Bush is at 39% approval, Cheney is at 19%. Congressional Dems have 10% more support than Congressional Republicans nationally. Yeah, by any measure our traction sucks. I sure wish we could capitalize on all these Republican scandals and fuck-ups.

Oh gee. The fair and balanced boys and girls at fox left out when unka Dick said: "Yeah... I was bombed out of my mind..."

I don't know what is more disgusting.

1) Macho men who drive to where a covey of tame quale is, get of the car and start blasting.

2) having 2 non-shooting women in the hunting party, whose role seem to be to gush admiration at the manlyness of the killers.

Are we seeing the outline here of it, the Republican rat factory spinning this like Poor ol' Dick is the Victim?

Apparently if there is an accidental shooting in the state of Texas, the victim and the shooter are both tested for alchohol. Why wasn't Cheney?

Um, he was too busy with the squeeze to talk to the po-leez?

Jeff II nails it. At least half of America thinks he was drunk, and however many more think he was playing Love Shack Weekend. This stuff doesn't go over well with the base. For some reason, the right can't stand the idea of another guy getting a blow job.

that's it ranaaurora, you're half way home. Stay on those themes for the campaign and it is a slam dunk. I mean, that's the same basic campaign that worked so well for you in '04 and.......oh wait. Never mind. If there were only more funerals where you could get your message out.

What themes? I don't control the media or the justice department.

The opinion polls are significantly different than they were in 2004. I'm just reporting them. If you and your brethren fucks don't turn them around in the next 8 months your going to lose the midterms. That's just democracy 101.

Contract With Abramoff
Contract With Abramoff
Contract With Abramoff
Contract With Abramoff
Contract With Abramoff
Contract With Abramoff
Contract With Abramoff
Contract With Abramoff

Cross to a vampire, baby :)

It's the only response you'll *ever* deserve.

Bob

Welcome back bobbie!

There, there, li'l Jay-man ...

*turning Jay over, inserting unlubed enema tube up his ass *mmmmmffh*, pumping freshly mixed SacRete up his colon until a death rictus blossoms across his cute li'l face*

shortstop you have to be kidding me; "half of America thinks he was drunk"! Wow, 150,000,000 people! I knew you guys were good pollsters but that's insanely good. Unless your lying? Do liberals lie?

Wow mummy, I'm hurt. I thought we were going to be freinds. I thought my views would be accepted here in the traditional tolerant liberal fashion. Disappointing, I guess is it what it really is.

Jay:

"Officer, I just had one beer."

*cop writes down: "Admits consuming alcohol"*

Zero tolerance for drinking and driving.

Zero tolerance for drinking and hunting.

Bob

Seriously, Jay -- is it crack or meth that you're on?

Mnemosyne:

Mexican ice :)

Bob

Still do not understand why D'asCoyne didn't announce himself after he retrieved the quail?

Wow! So now a liberal wants to get tough on crime! Who would have thunk it! You guys just continue to stay ahead of the curve. Did you poll that first Bob?

The idiot Jay hijacks one more thread with his psychopathological rants.

Jay:

No, just using common sense.

Cheney thinks that by admitting that he had "one beer," he's going to elicit sympathy. He's wrong. Since the 80s, people have been so beaten down by the new DWI regime in most states (certainly in NJ where I live) that people won't have a shred of sympathy for him at all.

Instead, they'll be asking themselves why the motherfucker wasn't breathalyzed immediately afterward.

Because after all, if any of *them* shot their buddies hunting, that's exactly what would've happened.

This candy-assed rich boy shit rubs the weekend hunting demographic precisely the wrong way.

Bob

Lib,
he only wishes he could hijack it. Have you noticed that the rest of us are getting past him quite nicely.

You know, Bob, I've heard the stuff coming up from Mexico is much stronger than what was getting cooked up domestically in trailer parks.

Now we have Exhibit A to prove it, right here in our own thread! Cool!

I was wrong: I thought Hume would go after him.

I particularly figured he would catch on to the angle (literally): 'Wait, you say this guy was behind and below you, and you were there to shoot at birds above and in front of you -- how long have you been a member of the NRA, Mr. Vice President?"

Or: "Why do you think the press would have trouble believing you?

I didn't THINK Hume would go this far, but I thought it at least possible that he might even ask about the delay: "Why? I'm sure you'd want to say how sorry you were if he died, but what right do you have, surrounded by taxpayer-provided bodyguards, to use them to avoid answering the kind of prompt questions by police that any other citizen would have had to answer?"

jcricket, I beg to differ. Seems as though I have distracted quite a few ADD liberals.

And Bob, you're right. All of those hunting states including the Southeast and the Northwest will all be going Democratic now just like in '04. Oh wait.......nevermind. Hey I wonder what's on AirAmerica? Are they still on the air?

Americanist:

The only excuse Cheney gave that had a whiff of legitimacy was wanting to inform Whittington's family so they wouldn't have to read about the shooting in the news.

Of course, that might excuse a two or three hour delay.

A 12-hour delay I'm not so sure ...

Wouldn't you love to know what went on in that phone call to Rove ....

Bob

"I thought Hume would go after him"

I don't think "Wait, you say d'asCoyne was behind you and below you......" was in the script that MM handed Hume.

Jay:

Love how you admit you're trolling :)

Weekend-sportsmen Reagan Democrat "The Deer Hunter" NRA types have genuine reason to be appalled by all the excusemaking.

That's precisely why I predicted that Cheney had no choice but to admit on Fox that it was his fault because he and he alone pulled the trigger.

I give Cheney props for coming clean there. It may have helped defuse the thing to an extent.

But until Whittington is out of the woods medically, this is a major news story. Negligent homicide is not a scintillating resume-builder.

Bob

Methinks the apologists do not understand the elementary concept of ordering numbers. Why should they be celebrating if only 40% of Americans approve of their leader and 60% disapprove?

Here is the proof positive.

Bob, I troll, therefore I am.

Oh no, it's proof positive!!! 60% of the wingnut wing of the liberal base disapproves of the current administration! Does that include Sheehan?

If only the seething rage and anger can be sustained for two more years, there will be a plethora of winnable issues, including but not limited too:
1. We don't spend enough money on entitlements
2. Tax cuts only benefit the rich
3. Islamic extremists are people too
4. Civil rights are eroding
These issues are all mainstream, and if Nancy Pelosi could spearhead this effort, well that would be even better. Get to work now, there's another campaign to lose.