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Tilting at Windmills

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February 20, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

SPIN....Patrick Nielsen Hayden, with the appropriate disclaimer, tells us that Robert Charles Wilson is the greatest thing since sliced apple segments:

Spin represents one of those stunning leaps upward that sometimes happen to writers in mid-career, comparable to what Vernor Vinge did when he published his extraordinary A Fire Upon the Deep, save that Wilson was leaping up from an even higher level....Its one of the great SF novels of this generation.

This is perfect. I've been hugely negligent on the science fiction front lately, and it's time to rectify that. So I'll go out and buy Spin today. Unless, of course, I get lots of comments here telling me that Patrick is hopelessly compromised and Spin is massively overhyped. Does anyone plan to do that?

Kevin Drum 12:52 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (67)

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Comments

Dunno about Spin, but this is a great read:

http://www.accelerando.org/

Tons of ideas, and lots of fun!

Posted by: Gore/Obama '08 on February 20, 2006 at 12:58 PM | PERMALINK

No. Instead I'll add, helpfully, "SF. Ewwwww."

Sorry. Miss Crankypants today.

Posted by: shortstop on February 20, 2006 at 12:58 PM | PERMALINK

From the review:

The long-anticipated marriage between the hard sf novel and the literary novel

The very first sf novel was a literary novel. Frankenstein by Mary Shelley.

Posted by: Jeffrey Davis on February 20, 2006 at 1:09 PM | PERMALINK

Haven't gotten to Spin yet (2nd down on my pile) but Wilson's previous books, Blind Lake and Bios and Darwinia, were all good enough that I'd certainly advise taking a risk on the Spin paperback.

Posted by: Chris on February 20, 2006 at 1:16 PM | PERMALINK

Fire Upon The deep was brilliant

one of my top ten

Posted by: jMaccabee on February 20, 2006 at 1:17 PM | PERMALINK

Haven't read Spin, but I did read one of Robert Charles Wilson's previous books, Blind Lake, and it very much rocked. He's good at the big idea stuff, great at characterization and pacing. Spin is next on my reading list.

I'll also second the recommendation for Accelerando, by Charles Stross. Stross' strengths are the reverse of Wilson's: he has ideas popping and fizzing all over the place, fantabulous ideas, but the characters aren't quite as realistic... though that may be a natural consequence of taking the story farther afield.

Posted by: Matt on February 20, 2006 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINK

Hey Shortstop, let us know what you enjoy, so we can belittle it.

Posted by: clambreath on February 20, 2006 at 1:23 PM | PERMALINK

You're right, clambreath. Sorry.

Posted by: shortstop on February 20, 2006 at 1:28 PM | PERMALINK

Speaking as an SF and fantasy writer (11 novels published), I consider Robert Charles Wilson one of the best--thoughtful, original, and perceptive of the key details that turn a story from formula to literature. Spin is only the latest of his unbroken string of superb novels.

Posted by: Crawford Kilian on February 20, 2006 at 1:50 PM | PERMALINK

I haven't read anything else by Wilson, but I did read Darwinia and enjoyed it hugely and I'd recommend it to any SF reader. I'll definitely take a stab at this one.

Posted by: Alexander Wolfe on February 20, 2006 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINK

I enjoyed both Darwinia and The Chronoliths (and was tickled to find it set in Minneapolis, where I live). I've put in a library request for this book.

Posted by: Luke on February 20, 2006 at 1:55 PM | PERMALINK

Go read whatever recent alleged "breakthrough" SF novel you like.

Then, for comparison, go read "The Cyberiad" by Stanislav Lem. And lament how bad modern SF has become.

Posted by: charlie don't surf on February 20, 2006 at 2:02 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop on February 20, 2006 at 12:58 PM:

Sorry. Miss Crankypants today.

Awwwww...Here's something that gave me a bit of a chuckle...

Aside from that, thanks to Kev for passing on the review. If this guy is as good as a Vernor Vinge or a Gene Wolfe, then I'll probably end up buying a copy.

Posted by: grape_crush on February 20, 2006 at 2:07 PM | PERMALINK

I can't talk about Spin, but I will throw in that (unlike almost everyone else I know who has read it) I thought Fire Upon the Deep was way over-hyped. It's fixation on Usenet as the information system of the distant future looked quaint within about two years of publication. Admittedly, the bits that satirized some of the nuttier elements of Usenet were very funny, but that's hardly enough to make a SF classic.

The main problem for me was that the ending didn't work. Having the heroine actually win when she had to overcome so many adversaries (half of whom she was naive enough to see as friends) felt like authorial manipulation rather than a plausible resolution of the story.

Posted by: Alex F on February 20, 2006 at 2:13 PM | PERMALINK

Vernor Vinge's deepness in the sky a follow up to fire upon the deep is actually my favorite sf book ever. So based on this paragraph from the review i have ordered spin from amazon!

but seriously buy Vernor Vinge's deepness in the sky also.

Posted by: jozef on February 20, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

Spin is fantastic, and I've been hyping it at least as much as Patrick has. I have a book log review of it from back when the hardcover first came out, and I really think it's one of the best SF novels I've read in the last several years.


Posted by: Chad Orzel on February 20, 2006 at 2:27 PM | PERMALINK

I preferred A Deepness in the Sky as well; Fire Upon The Deep's ending is somewhat problematic.

Posted by: fiat lux on February 20, 2006 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINK

i don't read much SF these days-- seems like too much of a struggle to find the few gems among the crap-- but what did folks make of LIGHT by M. John Harrison? it struck me as being really far out there in a way i ultimately liked a lot.

meanwhile, i assume everyone has read The Stars My Destination... just throwing out a classic i re-read recently...

Posted by: rqz on February 20, 2006 at 2:35 PM | PERMALINK
The Stars My Destination... just throwing out a classic i re-read recently... Posted by: rqz
Bester was the all time best, but I still have a fondness for Jack Vance. Posted by: Mike on February 20, 2006 at 2:44 PM | PERMALINK

Spin is quite good. His other books, Darwinia and "A Hidden Place" are also excellent. Bios... meh. He also wrote "The Divide", which I haven't gotten to yet.

Posted by: dlamming on February 20, 2006 at 2:44 PM | PERMALINK

Wilson really does rock; along with what people have thrown out, I'd recommend Mysterium. You have to love an sf novel where the theological details of gnosticism are a key plot point.

It always amuses me to compare Mysterium and 1632, also. It's amazing how two authors can take the same germ of a plot idea and one can make a cheesy, if mildly amusing romp, and one an incredibly rich, moving and believable story.

Posted by: tavella on February 20, 2006 at 2:50 PM | PERMALINK

I'm not a huge fan of Wilson - Bios and Darwinia weren't bad, but they didn't really leave me wanting more. Still, comparisons with A Fire Upon The Deep make me interested. Time for a visit to the library.

Posted by: viserys on February 20, 2006 at 2:55 PM | PERMALINK

I can't comment on "Spin" but I did enjoy another four-letter title, "Dune".

Posted by: Raw Data on February 20, 2006 at 3:01 PM | PERMALINK

I can't remember whether I've read Spin, but I've loved most of his other novels. The people are realer than most SF authors manage; these days I don't have the ability to stomach plot or character holes in the way I once did in pursuit of an awesome SF scenario, so RCW is one of the few authors I can keep reading happily. Unfortunately, the reason I can't remember whether I've read his latest is that his novels tend to be fundamentally very similar: a small community suddenly cut off from society by some SF event (with a central male character who was already cut off), usually forced to die with sadness and grace. Lovely stuff, but not indefinitely repeatable.

Posted by: Jake on February 20, 2006 at 3:09 PM | PERMALINK

"NERRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDD!!!"

"Hey buddy, did you check out the nerd?" /simpson

Posted by: drjimcooper on February 20, 2006 at 3:12 PM | PERMALINK

I have always enjoyed Bob Wilson's books, so I look forward to it anyway. But if it's as much as a leap upward as A Fire Upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky were for Vinge, I will probably want to sleep with it.

Posted by: Avedon on February 20, 2006 at 3:30 PM | PERMALINK

I don't know about Spin, but I'm a big fan of Peter Hamilton. I thought his Pandora's Star was really superb, and I'm going to buy the sequel in hardcover when it comes out.

Posted by: marky on February 20, 2006 at 3:32 PM | PERMALINK

Right on Mike on February - they don't make 'em like Jack Vance anymore. Then again, I discovered Vance when I was twelve, and 12 tends to be the golden age of any science fiction... :-)

Posted by: David W. on February 20, 2006 at 3:33 PM | PERMALINK

Spin is great, on a par with RCW's previous books if not better. Not sure how one can really compare him with Vinge -- sort of like trying to compare Le Guin and Heinlein, Vinge has the pull-out-all-the-stops verve of classic space opera, whereas Wilson is much more character focused. I haven't found his novels to be as recycled as Jake suggests (have more of that feeling with Baxter's novels).

But if you want a real marriage of literary and hard sf, Iain M. Banks is the gold medalist nowadays, with Alistair Reynolds running close behind.

Posted by: Rick on February 20, 2006 at 3:38 PM | PERMALINK

I full-heartedly recommend Spin. Robert Charles Wilson is one of the best writers in the genre today, and every one of his novels over the past 10 years is worth your time and attention.

Posted by: Matthew on February 20, 2006 at 3:53 PM | PERMALINK

I'm a big fan of John Scalzi and "Old Man's War." I've got no stake in the matter. If you like Heinlein you'll love "Old Man's War."

Posted by: Tripp on February 20, 2006 at 3:59 PM | PERMALINK

Spin was great.

Check out Robert Sawyer as well.

Vernor Vinge has a new novel coming out in March.

Posted by: Frenchdoc on February 20, 2006 at 4:21 PM | PERMALINK

I don't know, I actually liked Blind Lake a tad bit better (more "meat" for thought, IMHO). But it's like comparing apples and really good apples. They're both good. Mysterium, as somebody has mentioned is also very good. Actually, not that I think of it, there hasn't been a Robert Charles Wilson book that I *haven't* liked a lot, it's just that there are degrees of "a lot."

Speaking as an SF and fantasy writer (11 novels published)...
Posted by: Crawford Kilian

Oh, goodie! A new SF author to check out!!

I'm a bibliovore, and I devour 2-3 sf/f novels a week. You just made it into my next "to buy" list. IceQuake and Tsunami, I think...

Posted by: KarenJG on February 20, 2006 at 4:33 PM | PERMALINK

I feel I must chime in here to echo the recommendation of Iain M. Banks. Vast trove of ideas, characters with complexity & wit, plenty of thorny moral & social dilemmas; in particular, his "Culture" books portray a believable galactic-scale civilization while grappling with universal issues.

I'd recommend Consider Phlebas for starters, or perhaps Use of Weapons; the resolution of his earliest Culture novel The Player of Games is a bit unsatisfactory (though it's a fun read) and the prose is occasionally rather sloppy in his most recent, Look to Windward.

Wow, that was way too much info. I had to get my geek on.

Those who don't read SF can still get a lot out of the mainstream The Business, a personal favorite of mine.

Posted by: Rah on February 20, 2006 at 4:50 PM | PERMALINK

I don't know about Spin, but I'm a big fan of Peter Hamilton. I thought his Pandora's Star was really superb,
Posted by: marky

Yeah, but I hated the ending. Talk about a cliff-hanger. Literally.

Posted by: KarenJG on February 20, 2006 at 5:04 PM | PERMALINK

Darwinia and Bios were decent so I think it is worth checking out Spin, although, I haven't read it yet. If you have the time though check out multiple Hugo and Nebula winner, Lois McMaster Bujold. Very interesting and very fun.

Posted by: Bill Hicks on February 20, 2006 at 5:05 PM | PERMALINK

Let me strongly disagree with the recommendation of Peter Hamilton. He's an entertaining writer, but only if you don't think about what you are reading, which in his case is bogus neo-conservative hugger-muggery.

Posted by: TomB on February 20, 2006 at 5:06 PM | PERMALINK

I was a sci-fi fan through high school who then stopped reading it in favor of more "serious" literature. I found Wilson by accident, read him, and was completely knocked out. Darwinia and The Chronoliths are fine novels and The Perseids an excellent collection of short stories: this last reads, somehow, like sci-fi written by Alice Munro if she wrote sci-fi, but maybe that's just the Toronto settings. I'm looking forward to Spin.

Posted by: Peter Fish on February 20, 2006 at 5:15 PM | PERMALINK

This thread is perfect. Although lately I've been reading fantasy (heroic fiction, sword & socery), I've always been more of a hard core science fiction fan.

I know I'll be adding a few titles to my library.

Posted by: Dr. Morpheus on February 20, 2006 at 5:17 PM | PERMALINK

In the middle of reading Spin at the moment (I'd bought my copy before PNH's recommendation) - it really is extraordinary. A sort of culmination of a particular approach to SF.

Posted by: Henry on February 20, 2006 at 5:29 PM | PERMALINK

I usually just lurk, but how can I possibly resist the opportunity to suggest some good science fiction? I've been reading Alastair Reynolds' Revelation Space "trilogy" -- it's tight, well-written, and thought provoking. I'm about halfway through the second one, which has a few pacing issues the first one didn't, but is still one of the best sf novels I've read in a while.

Posted by: heater on February 20, 2006 at 6:01 PM | PERMALINK

Crawford is right. I'm a judge for the Sunburst this year (http://www.sunburstaward.org/) and am close to finishing Spin. If it holds itself as well to the end as it has to this point, I'll push hard to get it shortlisted.

D

Posted by: Derryl Murphy on February 20, 2006 at 6:10 PM | PERMALINK

Go read whatever recent alleged "breakthrough" SF novel you like.
Then, for comparison, go read "The Cyberiad" by Stanislav Lem. And lament how bad modern SF has become.
Posted by: charlie don't surf on February 20, 2006 at 2:02 PM | PERMALINK

Word.
(from a former serial sci-fi convention attendee).

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on February 20, 2006 at 6:19 PM | PERMALINK

I love Iain M. Banks (I like plain old Iain Banks, too), but there's nobody better than Gene Wolfe.

But let me recommend M. John Harrison's Light, which destroyed me completely. If you can imagine crossing Cordwainer Smith with Iain M. Banks and toss in a pinch of China Miville, you'll get some idea of the book.

Posted by: theophylact on February 20, 2006 at 6:24 PM | PERMALINK

I just got done reading "Spin," and I recommend it very much, although my three favorite RCW novels in order, are "Darwinia," "A Bridge of Years" and "The Chronoliths."

The distinction between "Science Fiction" and "The Literary Novel" undoubtedly exists, but it doesn't have to be that way. Nobody would deny the true "literary" qualities of "Frankenstien," "The Time Machine," "Brave New World," "The Martian Chronicles," "A Canticle for Liebowitz" or "A Clockwork Orange," science fiction novels all.

In fact, by the early 1970s the false dichotomy between SF and mainstream fiction was well on its way to being erased (cf J.G Ballard, Ursula Le Guin and Philip K. Dick). Then we had the "Counterrevolution," a return to the pulp tradition of the 1920s, heralded by the release of the derivative and juvenile "Star Wars" and "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" and other movies and novels of their ilk. It's been a slow, arduous climb back ever since. Robert Charles Wilson is the outstanding example of a modern "Science Fiction Writer" who can actually WRITE. May there be many more like him!

Posted by: John Beadle on February 20, 2006 at 6:27 PM | PERMALINK

TomB:
Let me strongly disagree with the recommendation of Peter Hamilton. He's an entertaining writer, but only if you don't think about what you are reading, which in his case is bogus neo-conservative hugger-muggery.

Well, sure. As with Michael Flynn or Jerry Pournelle or any of a zillion other sf writers, you've got to disengage the political side of your brain, or they'll drive you nuts. But he's not a bad writer, and his fiction is clearly in the "wonderzone" that good sf inhabits. You don't have to agree with an authors "solutions" to problems, or his/her "take" on culture/society to enjoy good storytelling.

Or, at least, I don't. Maybe you do.

Posted by: KarenJG on February 20, 2006 at 6:34 PM | PERMALINK

Wilson's "Spin" is excellent, Kevin. Go get it. My wife and I will be nominating it for a Hugo this year.

Posted by: Tom Negrino on February 20, 2006 at 6:42 PM | PERMALINK

People who like The Stars My Destination are old and creepy.

Spin and The Chronoliths are both excellent; however, Blind Lake is very clearly a learning-process novel where Wilson is cutting his teeth on the whole notion of combining big-SF ideas with strong and empathic characterization. As an historical artifact, it's okay, but as a novel it sure makes my nose wrinkle.

Posted by: NL on February 20, 2006 at 7:02 PM | PERMALINK

Allow me to throw in a full-throttle endorsement of Iain M. Banks, simply the most gifted fiction writer alive. _Player of Games_ is a good place to start, but _Use of Weapons_ remains the gold standard. His non-middle-initial work in general fiction is also excellent. (What is it with Scots and SF, by the way? Ken MacLeod and Richard Morgan both seemed to come out of nowhere...)

I'm not quite sure I buy the premise from the original quote. _A Fire Upon the Deep_ might have been when Hugo and Nebula voters finally recognized Vinge, but he had earlier written the excellent Marooned in Realtime books as well as the seminal novella exploring cyberspace, True Names, three or four years before Neuromancer. He was hardly unknown or obscure before 1994.

Posted by: spanky on February 20, 2006 at 8:47 PM | PERMALINK

Karen JG quoted me and then wrote:
Speaking as an SF and fantasy writer (11 novels published)...
Posted by: Crawford Kilian

Oh, goodie! A new SF author to check out!!

I'm a bibliovore, and I devour 2-3 sf/f novels a week. You just made it into my next "to buy" list. IceQuake and Tsunami, I think...

Well, those books were published about a quarter of a century ago, so I don't feel very "new." And I haven't published a novel in over ten years. But some of my stuff is still available through iUniverse, so I'm sort-of in print.

If I can ever finish blogging avian flu, I'll get back to the current novel...but it's not anywhere near as exciting as a real live almost-pandemic. All of us in the 21st century are living in a better SF novel than the Golden Age masters ever imagined. Unfortunately.

Posted by: Crawford Kilian on February 20, 2006 at 9:24 PM | PERMALINK

I like Cronoliths, but he didn't figure out how to resolve the plot, so he just fudged it. Blind lake was better as a sci-fi story, whether or not it was better literature.

Posted by: Boronx on February 20, 2006 at 9:28 PM | PERMALINK

I loathed Darwinia with a rare and fiery passion. Very, very bad science, awful plotting, inexplicable characters.

Posted by: NBarnes on February 20, 2006 at 9:56 PM | PERMALINK

Crawford Kilian:
Well, those books were published about a quarter of a century ago, so I don't feel very "new." And I haven't published a novel in over ten years. But some of my stuff is still available through iUniverse, so I'm sort-of in print.

New to me, I mean. Hadn't heard of you before (sorry!). I saw that they'd been republished by iUniverse, and thought it would be interesting (especially in IceQuake's case) to see how prescient (or not) they were. I should tell you that Barnes & Noble lists ALL of your books as having been published in 1998. Ya might want to see if you can get them to update your listings a bit!

What's your most recent one?

OT warning...

How are you finding iUniverse as a republisher? I know several authors who went with Wildside, but it's sometimes hard getting the books in a timely fashion.

Posted by: KarenJG on February 20, 2006 at 10:27 PM | PERMALINK

Spin is good; like most of Robert Charles Wilson's novels, it's basically about the impact of extraordinary events on ordinary people. I didn't think it was as good as Chronoliths though, which IMHO has set the bar for his subsequent suff.

And since we're in the business of recommending works, I'd like to suggest three. Lately I've been banging the drum for John Birmingham's "Axis of Time" series, of which there are two volumes: Weapons of Choice and Designated Targets. Another good recent one is Terraforming Earth by the grandmaster Jack Williamson. Finally, if you haven't read it yet, I cannot praise Gregory Benford's Timescape highly enough, both for its sci-fi elements and its note of environmental alarm.

Posted by: mbk on February 20, 2006 at 10:38 PM | PERMALINK

Correction: Barnes & Noble lists all of your republished books as being published in 1998 - they list the original out of print versions by their original pub date.

Sorry!

Posted by: KarenJG on February 20, 2006 at 10:50 PM | PERMALINK

Actually, now that I think of it, there hasn't been a Robert Charles Wilson book that I *haven't* liked a lot...

Same here.

Posted by: fyreflye on February 20, 2006 at 11:02 PM | PERMALINK

I'll join those recommending "Spin." It's a great book, a fantastic combination of huge ideas and amazing characterization. Wilson really, to slip into cliche, knocks this one out of the park.

Also, take the time to read one of Crawford Killian's books. He makes some good story. I still take out "Empire of Time" to reread when I'm looking for a good novel.

Posted by: Rick Jones, really on February 20, 2006 at 11:43 PM | PERMALINK

The comparison of Spin to AFUtD is very apt. Both of them are spectacular, pyrotechnic leaps of imagination, very well-thought-out and very well-put-together. But they both suffer from the same problems: They don't have characters so much as cardboard cut-outs with dialogue (I've read fanfiction whose leading characters had more depth than Jason, Tyler and Diane put together) and they don't even redeem themselves by seriously considering the large-scale social impact of their storylines. (There's a point early in Spin, memorable for all the wrong reasons, where we find out that some people aren't having children because of SPOILER. How do we find out? We're told. In two sentences. Which are so flat they'd be an insult to freshman comp.)

I'm not saying Spin is bad, as such. But this style of sf treats everything as little more than cogs on which the plot turns. There's lots of people who enjoy that, and if you're one of them you'll like Spin. Personally it annoys the crap out of me.

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Posted by: David on February 21, 2006 at 12:01 AM | PERMALINK

You know, on a few minutes' consideration, I don't think I did a good job of stating what I didn't like about the book, so let me take another stab:

Spin traffics in clichs. It glories in them. It sounds cantankerous to accuse a book that wants to be centred on the upheavals three people experience when the entire future of the human race is knocked into a cocked hat of being devoid of character development, but the problem is that you need characters, and Wilson's threesome are so contemptibly one-dimensional that it's just not possible to give a damn about their fates.

And quite frankly, the mere fact of E.D. Lawton would be sufficient to indict the book even if every other aspect of it was perfect.

Posted by: schwa on February 21, 2006 at 12:09 AM | PERMALINK

David, you ignorant slut.

Posted by: Jinx on February 21, 2006 at 12:35 AM | PERMALINK

You could check the unsolicited customer reviews on Amazon. They seem to be about 50/50.

Posted by: Old Guy on February 21, 2006 at 2:43 AM | PERMALINK

Okay, I've shuffled through the tasteful baskets which attempt to contain 'to-be-reads' and found "A Deepness in the Sky" which says its the prequel to , not the follow up to, "A Fire Upon the Deep'.

It had sifted down to the bottom and was cowering behind one of Peter F. Hamilton's "Reality Dysfunction" series.

I've picked it up at least three times, gotten as Chapter 3 or so, and found the writing so wooden and opaque as to be virtually unreadable, so I've never gotten to "A Fire" at all.

Neither Killian or Wilson had come to my attention but I will make it a point to check them out.

I'm a fan of both 'hard' sci-fi and other sub-genre like the works of S. M. Stirling and Robert J. Sawyer.

Posted by: CFShep on February 21, 2006 at 8:04 AM | PERMALINK

I haven't read any Vinge or Wilson I am sorry to say. I have read Mary Doria Russell's "The Sparrow" and "Children of God" and LOVED them. Can anyone here who is better read than I tell me how they stack up against the books you are talking about?

Posted by: Scott on February 21, 2006 at 9:24 AM | PERMALINK

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Sigh.

Remember the good old days?

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