Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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March 10, 2006
By: Ogged

Having A Plan

My unimpeachable sources at the Powerline relate this development.

It's happening already. Waiters at New York City restaurants are starting to introduce themselves to customers by saying, Im a blogger--Im just doing this while I wait for my big break.

On the one hand, this is crazy. As the article apparently goes on to say,

While blogging is showing profit potential for consultants prospecting for new business and savvy marketers creating customer dialogues, the vast majority of citizen publishers arent making enough from their efforts to even pay for their Internet connection.

But it's not completely crazy. The happy finger of chance has picked out a few people, almost at random, and made them a pile of money or given them nice, if not cushy, blogging gigs. Washingtonienne Jessica Cutler signed a book deal for a reported few hundred thousand dollars. The new Wonkette, David Lat, was just some blogger before Gawker decided to employ him. And of course there's Kevin.

Blogging is still just new enough that there's no established track to "making it"--do something interesting, and you might land a full-time gig, and maybe rub elbows with a few minor celebrities too. Yes, the waiters are deluded, but as delusions go, it's not so bad.

Big Break Update: It seems that on the strength of my brilliant Pie Strategy post, I've been named head baker/imam of the Washington Monthly. I now have the power to hold you in contempt. Comment carefully, little people.

Ogged 8:13 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (76)

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Comments

Remarkably expletive-free comment on the HindRocket, et. al. I assume this is a nod to the conventions of Washington Monthly. Which means you've sold out, man!

Posted by: SomeCallMeTim on March 10, 2006 at 8:18 PM | PERMALINK

I don't know about Ogged, but nobody gave me any conventions or rules for posting here.

Posted by: Roxanne on March 10, 2006 at 8:22 PM | PERMALINK

Careful there, Ogged. You fail to recognize the risk you are running!

I am a full-fledged ordained Reverand with the Universal Life Church with a Doctorate of Divinity. Hold me in contempt and I will return the honor.

So there.

Posted by: Rick B on March 10, 2006 at 8:42 PM | PERMALINK

Go ogged !

Posted by: ch2 on March 10, 2006 at 8:49 PM | PERMALINK

Time to get real.

If Kevin really left you kids the keys then how about getting a clue:

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/World/Guantanamo_Detainees/

Say what?

As many as 84 prisoners at Guantanamo are having to be force fed?

SHIT!

84!

And you are using your one moment in the spotlight to blog shit?

Posted by: koreyel on March 10, 2006 at 9:04 PM | PERMALINK

I'm pretty sure the thing about waiters is meant as an outright joke, thus the reference to actors at the end -- waiters claiming to be actors-waiting-for-their-break being a standard joke. It's hard to tell, since PL gives no link and the site (publications.mediapost.com) is not searchable by those without accounts.

Posted by: DonBoy on March 10, 2006 at 9:08 PM | PERMALINK

There's no established track to blogging success. But there is a well trodden path to blogging failure, and you're on it, Ogged.

Posted by: charlie don't surf on March 10, 2006 at 9:09 PM | PERMALINK

Yikes. Kevin getting fatter than his cats from blogging? Is that why he's taken up swimming?

Posted by: bobbyp on March 10, 2006 at 9:10 PM | PERMALINK

Jessica Cutler surely benefited from blogging. But Kevin Drum and David Lat (remember, he was Assistant United States Attorney while he was Article Three Groupie) would have been successful even without blogs. Washingtonienne is a good example of 'break-seekers,' Drum and Lat are not.

Posted by: Peatey on March 10, 2006 at 9:11 PM | PERMALINK

It's happening already. Waiters at New York City restaurants are starting to introduce themselves to customers by saying, "Im a blogger--Im just doing this while I wait for my big break."

Substitute writer or screenwriter or actor and voila. Also, the sort of outfit Powerline is quoting seems likely to be the types to quote one person on the subject and call it trend. (Or tell the waiter they're writing a story on blogging and have the waiter make a joke and quote the joke as a serious statement!)

On the one hand, this is crazy.

See above.

But it's not completely crazy.

No, completely crazy is quoting powerline quoting some random magazine publishing one of those soft 'new trend' stories and taking it seriously enough to blog about. Ogged: the muslim John Tesh.

It seems that on the strength of my brilliant Pie Strategy post, I've been named head baker/imam of the Washington Monthly. I now have the power to hold you in contempt. Comment carefully, little people.

Put down the pie and step away from the Mexican.

ash
['While you're at it, put the bomb away too, there's an ordinance about that shit.']

Posted by: ash on March 10, 2006 at 9:34 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, I'm sure the Powerline sphincters are getting filthy rich selling their "Hippies Smell" T-shirts. How ridiculous and irrelevant...

Posted by: Stephen Kriz on March 10, 2006 at 9:37 PM | PERMALINK

That's nothing next to the ability to indict.

Posted by: Grand Ole' Prosecuters on March 10, 2006 at 9:38 PM | PERMALINK

Ogged has established one successful blog. What's your batting average, charlie don't surf?

Posted by: apostropher on March 10, 2006 at 9:44 PM | PERMALINK

And you are using your one moment in the spotlight to blog shit?

there is a well trodden path to blogging failure, and you're on it, Ogged.

These are absolutely terrible attempts at trying to communicate with someone, let alone persuade them. Do you two have any hope that your comments will be seen as anything but silly, unthought, and ill-mannered?

Maybe you don't care. But if you don't care, then whey are you in a thread about politics - which is, essentially, about living together and persuading each other? I take it you're interested in politics, but if that's the case, shouldn't you do a better job at learning the basic skill sets? You could be as smart as Paul Krugman, but, if you come accross like you are now, such knowledge would be completely worthless to you because you wouldn't be able to get an audience.


Posted by: Michael on March 10, 2006 at 9:52 PM | PERMALINK

I got an email from Cindy Sheehan

Posted by: elmo on March 10, 2006 at 10:04 PM | PERMALINK

I must be really stupid. I absolutely cannot understand what you're trying to say in the last paragraph? You're the head imam/baker of this blog? Based on your "brillant" Pie strategy post? WTF are you talking about?

Perhaps you should really not have come out of retirement onto this blog. Maybe you should have first resurrected your own blog.

Posted by: Ha Nguyen on March 10, 2006 at 10:21 PM | PERMALINK

Anyone have a suggestion for a good NY waiter blog?

Posted by: toast on March 10, 2006 at 10:24 PM | PERMALINK

Michael on March 10, 2006 at 9:52 PM:

if you don't care, then whey are you in a thread about politics

Er, this thread isn't abut politics; it's about bloggers' navel-gazing.

Sigh...How many days is it until Kev's back from vacation?

Posted by: grape_crush on March 10, 2006 at 10:25 PM | PERMALINK

As a fellow pie guy, I salute you, Ogged! and raise the finger of malcontent to your critics. Goddam they sure are dumb.

Posted by: Carlos on March 10, 2006 at 10:25 PM | PERMALINK

Michael:

However you feel about the way koryel expressed it -- the point is well-taken. Force-fed Gitmo prisoners is not in the NYT, and it's an important story. This post is just weekend silliness.

Speaking of OT subjects that have a genuine import, try this one from Slate:

Claude Allen Busted For Shoplifting.

By Rachel Shteir
Updated Friday, March 10, 2006, at 5:44 PM ET

When Claude Allen, President Bush's longtime domestic-policy adviser,
resigned suddenly on Feb. 9, it baffled administration critics and
fans. The White House claimed that Allen was leaving to spend more
time with his family, while the Washington Times speculated that the
45-year-old aide, a noted social conservative, might have quit to
protest a new Pentagon policy about military chaplains. Allen himself
never publicly explained the reason for his departure.

News today may shed light on the mystery of Allen's resignation.
According to the Montgomery County Police Department, Allen was
arrested yesterday and charged in a felony theft and a felony theft
scheme. According to a department press release, Allen conducted
approximately 25 fraudulent "refunds" in Target and Hecht's stores in
Maryland. On Jan. 2, a Target employee apprehended Allen after
observing him receive a refund for merchandise he had not purchased.
Target then contacted the Montgomery County Police. According to a
source familiar with the case, Target and the police had been
observing Allen since October 2005.

Allen is charged with practicing a form of shoplifting called "refund
fraud."

In general, a refund-fraud scam goes like this: You purchase an
item--a CD player, let's say--and leave the store with it. Then you
come back to the store and pick up exactly the same CD player; you
take the CD player and receipt from the original purchase to the
returns desk, claiming that this is the item you bought, and get a
refund for it. You keep the original CD player, and pay nothing.
Professional shoplifters like refund fraud because it's relatively
safe. Since you never actually steal an object from the store, no one
can chase you out to the parking lot. According to Richard Hollinger,
a professor at the University of Florida-Gainesville and the author of
the only yearly survey on retail theft, figures vary but "some say
that figures lost to refund fraud reach $16 billion a year."

According to the department, Allen sought refunds for more than $5,000
in the past year. Allen allegedly stole items as expensive as a Bose
theater system and a photo printer. Theft of more than $500 is a
felony in Maryland.

Allen was released on his own recognizance. A message left at his home
was not returned by the time of publication.

Rachel Shteir is working on a book about shoplifting in America.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on March 10, 2006 at 10:31 PM | PERMALINK

Please shut the fuck up. I mean you really must shut the fuck up. Kay?

Posted by: Pat on March 10, 2006 at 10:43 PM | PERMALINK

OK progressives, here's another divide being created by the neo-con debauchery such as Mr Allen (thanks rmck1) It Does not look good for Republicans...

Neo-Cons out of touch with American Jewish 70% oppose Bush Cheney War
The enthusiastic support for Netanyahu and Bush administration hawks underscores what appears to be a widening gap between pro-Israel activists in Washington on the one hand and the Israeli and American publics on the other. Polls show Netanyahu trailing Olmert and Peretz in Israel at the same time that support for Bush and the Iraq War are plummeting in America. Some political observers have suggested that Bush's declining political fortunes would make it harder for him to follow through on the hawkish rhetoric cheered by pro-Israel activists, but participants at the Aipac conference who were interviewed by the Forward voiced no such concerns.

Aipac also appears to be out of step with the American Jewish community on Iraq. Like many other American Jewish organizations, it supported the Iraq war. But 70% of American Jews oppose the Iraq war, according to a poll commission by the American Jewish Committee at the end of 2005.

Posted by: Mach TucK on March 10, 2006 at 10:45 PM | PERMALINK

While blogging is showing profit potential for consultants prospecting for new business and savvy marketers creating customer dialogues, the vast majority of citizen publishers arent making enough from their efforts to even pay for their Internet connection.

Pure garbage. Most bloggers don't blog in order to make money, they blog because they think they have something to say, and don't care whether they get 5 hits a day or 500,000. Besides, the amateurs often produce better, more interesting writing than the pros on any given day.

That post doesn't tell you anything about bloggers in general, but it tells you something about Hindrocket and his ilk: that they are the sorts of conservatives who believe that no human activity is of any use unless there's money to be made at it. This attitude is fast becoming the new American creed, and it is slowly poisoning our society.

Posted by: dr sardonicus on March 10, 2006 at 11:05 PM | PERMALINK

You know, if you don't like a particular poster's stuff, don't read it. Sorry if some of you go into withdrawal convulsions if you don't get a constant flow of political hostility from a site.

Posted by: tbrosz on March 10, 2006 at 11:26 PM | PERMALINK

i miss ogged

Posted by: bg on March 10, 2006 at 11:27 PM | PERMALINK

Ogged >"...It seems that on the strength of my brilliant Pie Strategy post..."

I`m still not going to eat pie with Rumsfeld, Rove, Shotgun Dick or any of the rest of those reactionary ReThuglicans

With you, maybe...

What kind ?

"There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things." - Niccol Machiavelli

Posted by: daCascadian on March 10, 2006 at 11:37 PM | PERMALINK

People who swarm comment boards to heap scorn on a poster are a unique kind of pathetic.

This post is funny. Ogged is funny. That is worthwhile in and of itself.

Honestly, what the fuck is wrong with people?

Posted by: Realish on March 10, 2006 at 11:48 PM | PERMALINK

Please shut the fuck up. I mean you really must shut the fuck up. Kay?

Pat sounds remarkably similar to Bill O'Reilly.

I admit it's not just this thread or this site in general that's aggravated me: it's liberal blog threads all over the place. I hate it, but by and large, they seem show a level of discourse on par with Rush Limbaugh, and often below.

I'm not asking for anyone to like or agree with Ogged. Nothing of the sort. I'm just wish people would discuss as if they'd had some sort of an education.

Posted by: Michael on March 10, 2006 at 11:49 PM | PERMALINK

"You know, if you don't like a particular poster's stuff, don't read it. Sorry if some of you go into withdrawal convulsions if you don't get a constant flow of political hostility from a site."

I stand corrected.
Apologies to oogled and all of his fellow ooglers.

You folks are absolutely correct.

Which is all to say:

84 prisoners starving themselves to death is a common occurrence. It happens everyday on planet earth.

Forgive me my impertinence.

Now let's get back to those delicious, firm, Sweedish hot cross bums shall we?

Yummy yummy.

I love those hot buttered cracks just as much as anyone else...

I'll take mine slightly tanned but completely shaved...

Orgy porgy...
Orgy porgy...
Orgy porgy...

Posted by: koreyel on March 10, 2006 at 11:55 PM | PERMALINK

Now honestly Michael, why do you think it would even REMOTELY be possible to have some sort of intelligent discourse with Ogged, who thinks this is all a big joke? If I wanted demented humor, I'd go read his blog. But I don't, I read Washington Monthly.com, because I came to know it as an intelligent source of news, not as yet another idiot doing his best to make all liberals look like idiots.

In the space of a single afternoon, Ogged has singlehandedly posted more than the entire crew of Washington Monthly posters have. That is someone trying to seize his moment in the sun and use it to his own advantage.

As someone commented somewhere upthread, Kevin isn't the sort of attention-seeking blogger who sought fame and fortune. So it comes as a rather sharp shock to find an asshole like Ogged taking over the site and ranting like a blithering idiot, hoping to attract attention to himself. So excuse us if we express our displeasure with Ogged and our desire that he go crawl back under a rock.

Posted by: charlie don't surf on March 11, 2006 at 12:12 AM | PERMALINK

As many as 84 prisoners at Guantanamo are having to be force fed?

SHIT!

84!

And you are using your one moment in the spotlight to blog shit?


Posted by: koreyel on March 10, 2006 at 9:04 PM |

koreyel gots it!

Muslim terror? As an American Citizen ;), thank you very much, I'd like to reign in the Gitmo terrarists that are supposedly, nominally, accountable to the People they've sworn to serve and the Constitution they'd sworn to uphold. Ogged wants me to maybe write letters to Osama?

Ogged flogged Muslim terrorrr!! How exceptionallly incisive. "You are very afraid!! Admit it!" Then Ogged dogged liberals. "See the weakest political believer flee before the almost-strong Ogged-blogged logic-bogged lesson logged!!!"

We get pies and basketball and Swedish swim teachers -- oh, and condescending lessons in 'why liberals don't get it' -- you know, for the little people.

And that's worth a quote:
but even those of you who are so far left that your right ventricles don't even beat will admit that in your heart of hearts, whatever vanishingly small worries you have about terrorism involve a guy on a bus who doesn't look like Tim McVeigh.

Seeee?! Bleeding liberals don't really even haave hearts! Underneath it all, in their heart of hearts, theyr'e really racist.

Of course we won't "admit" it. 'Tain't true. So I'll put a question up for discussion: Who's the real racist? Given the above quote?

Posted by: SombreroFallout on March 11, 2006 at 12:19 AM | PERMALINK

I'm pretty sure the thing about waiters is meant as an outright joke

Actually it's not a good enough line to be a joke. It's an outright fabrication, some nitwit writer's idea of a clever way to begin an article reporting the astounding fact that most bloggers don't make a living from their blogs.

Posted by: Swift Loris on March 11, 2006 at 12:22 AM | PERMALINK

Maybe you don't care. But if you don't care, then whey are you in a thread about politics - which is, essentially, about living together and persuading each other? I take it you're interested in politics, but if that's the case, shouldn't you do a better job at learning the basic skill sets?

Honestly, I think you could and should point that comment at the original pie post.

Does "living together" entail slamming liberals and lefties as both wrong rhetorically, and politically, and in terms of realpolitik -- but also racist at heart?

I think not.

Ogged -- as well as the 'realists' amongst us -- need to get out and meet multiple bunches of both Timothy McVeighs and liberals, prior to presuming to discount one and slam the other.

Before baking Kumbayah into a pie.

Posted by: SombreroFallout on March 11, 2006 at 12:32 AM | PERMALINK

The guys at PowerLine rock.

Posted by: Paddy Whack on March 11, 2006 at 12:54 AM | PERMALINK

TROLL CONTEST !

Good evening, ladies 'n' germs. It's time again for the First
Annual Political Animal Troll Contest! Severe boredom and too
much late nite coffee has produced this lovely little effort to
help us name our favorite cyber-malefactors. Because trolls are
(hard to believe, I know) people, too, and come in a variety of
shapes, sizes and strengths of stench, I've put forth a series
of categories to fairly contextualize them. You wouldn't judge
tbrosz by the same criteria as you would conspiracy nut, right?

So, without further adieu, here are the Five Troll
Categories, and my personal nominations. YMMV. Feel
free to argue with this and we'll first hammer out a
consensus on nominations before we vote on the Big Prizes.

1) SERIOUS TROLLS

These are the trolls who, obnoxious as they can be, really don't
think of themselves as trolls, nor are they here merely for their
own cheap contrarian yux. They seem to honestly enjoy debating
with us, maintain a reasonable degree of civility, and have offered
enough biographical info to let us conclude that -- surprise! --
they're really *not* lifeless geeks lurking in their mom's basement:

1) tbrosz
2) rdw
3) Michael L. Cook
4) Steve White
5) Will Allen
6) republicrat

2) OBNOXIOUS TROLLS

These are the creme de la creme of trolldom. Dead-ass annoying
and a hair more clever than Freeper Drones (see below), these are
the trolls who know they're trolling, troll gleefully, and make
sure to hit that coveted first post in as many threads as they can.

1) conspiracy nut
2) The Als (I can't tell real from fake)
3) Mike K
4) Birkel

3) FREEPER DRONES

These are the crudsters -- the bottom of the barrel. They give
off the piquant aroma of of DKE College Republican fratboys after a
particularly strenuous pledge week. Not an original idea in their
heads; all talking points all the time. As Charter Member Paddy
Whack says: "The guys at PowerLine rock." About sez it all.

1) GOPGregory
2) BigRiver
3) Paddy Whack
4) peanut
5) clock
6) Brian

4) MISCELLANEOUS PSYCHOTICS

The most interesting category of all, these sad, sad creatures are
almost a sin to include, because it's not nice to make fun of the
mentally ill. Nonetheless, their penchant for all-caps shrieking,
impossibly grandiose pontification and wrecking threads with George
Bush spam make whatever abuse they receive entirely poetic justice.

1) Patton
2) The Objective Historian
3) Cheney

5) TROLL PARODIES

These are the heroically anonymous foak who put us in
stitches. They know who they are. Let's hope the winner
lets us show our love by stepping out from under the bridge :)

1) tbrosz (helicalrocket)
2) tbrosz (circularstrawman)
3) tbrosz (rotaryrectum)
4) tbrosz (swivellingsphincter)
5) Al
6) rdw

If I've left out anyone particularly noteworthy,
please submit your amendments 'n' nominations today!

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on March 11, 2006 at 5:39 AM | PERMALINK

Hi Bob,

If I've left out anyone particularly noteworthy,
please submit your amendments 'n' nominations today!

Well, I definitely think "Fweedom Fwighter" deserves a place in the parody category. "Norman" should properly be sitting alongside Patton. "Jim Rockford" and "Joe Shmoe" have not been active recently. Perhaps you need a new category for Departed Trolls?

Oh and Foreign Trolls for "McA"

Posted by: snicker-snack on March 11, 2006 at 5:59 AM | PERMALINK

snicker-snack:

*thwacking head* Oh, shit! I don't remember Jim Rockford or Joe Schmoe (I've only been on PA for about three months), but how the fweck could I forget McHemhorroid, Normie and Freedom Fries!

I'd stick ol' McA in the Obnoxious Trolls category -- Norman, too. McA tries so *strenuously* to be a Serious Troll, but he just never makes it; that ol' East Asian authoritarianism (which he equates with Red State Republicanism) leaks out without a shred of self-awareness. And Norman's so over the top he may as well be a parody. I'd still put both in the deliberately provocative hair-pulling camp with C-nut.

As for Freedom Fries -- *definitely* a Freeper Drone. One step down the evolutionary ladder for him :)

As for Freedom Fukher -- that one's in the Parody category. And I'm damn embarrased to have missed 'em, because he gets first post a good third of the time ...

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on March 11, 2006 at 7:15 AM | PERMALINK

Freedom Fries = Freedom Fighter
Freedom Fukher = Freedom Fukkher

Posted by: rmck1 on March 11, 2006 at 7:26 AM | PERMALINK

Oh, and another category:

GUEST COMMENTATOR TROLLS

These are Kevin's buddies who staff PA when he's away on vacation and who produce posts so ... umm ... controversial that thread after thread become stuffed with snark from the regulars about how trivial, patronizing, poorly written and/or off-point they are.

1) Ogg
2) Debra Dickerson

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on March 11, 2006 at 7:40 AM | PERMALINK

I don't want to rain on your parade, but the Jessica Cutler road to success is not open to all of us, Ogged. But if you want to give it a shot, go for it!

Posted by: John Emerson on March 11, 2006 at 8:54 AM | PERMALINK

1) SERIOUS TROLLS
republicrat

2)OBNOXIOUS TROLLS
conspiracy nut (and his sock pal Jay)

3) FREEPER DRONES
photo finish: BigRiver
Brian

4) MISCELLANEOUS PSYCHOTICS
The Objective Historian
(who is fairly obviously neither and possibly a parody?)

5) TROLL PARODIES
rdw
(he's a parody? Of what? I thought that the intellectual wattage necessary to...er...commit... parody would call for the ability to string two coherent thoughts together and at least a passing acquaintance with spelling/grammar/syntax)

Oh and Foreign Trolls for "McA"
(whose sheer obnoxiousness may put him in the running for one of "Dubious Achievement' thingies

Morning, Bob.

Posted by: CFShep on March 11, 2006 at 9:08 AM | PERMALINK

"If I've left out anyone particularly noteworthy,
please submit your amendments 'n' nominations today!"


Under Miscellaneous Psychotics (an excellent category title): meatss

Posted by: Ace Franze on March 11, 2006 at 9:18 AM | PERMALINK

Oh, and Fat White Guy (I love it), truly miscellaneous, in spite of his self-parodying handle.
God, they're a lot of them, aren't there?

Posted by: Ace Franze on March 11, 2006 at 9:21 AM | PERMALINK

Now, if only we could find a Kotashahn to run as a Democratic leader - To hell with "front runner's - need someone who can do 24s and come home in ll and change.

Posted by: stupid git on March 11, 2006 at 9:28 AM | PERMALINK

Well ... I do feel kind of bad sometimes about how bad Debra Dickenson got it here. But then again, her writing was sooooooooooooooooo irritating. And let me add another poster I find annoying: Those who, in response to negative posts or criticisms of the posters choice of topic cluck disaprovingly (Where's YOUR blog? If you don't have anything nice to say, post elsewhere, etc.) No. It's my right to say Shut the Fuck up. So I will. Shut the fuck up.

Posted by: Pat on March 11, 2006 at 9:57 AM | PERMALINK

Didn't one of those lottery winning meatpackers in Arkansas have a blog?

Posted by: B on March 11, 2006 at 10:49 AM | PERMALINK

'lottery winning meatpackers in Arkansas'

Nebraska

Posted by: CFShep on March 11, 2006 at 11:01 AM | PERMALINK

I agree, Pat. Now shut the fuck up, Pat.

Posted by: agreed on March 11, 2006 at 11:24 AM | PERMALINK

Troll Contest:

Does anyone else think Jay should get some kind of mention? Is there a catagory of Always Wants The Last Word?

He is either a runner up for Obnoxious or Freeper.

Admittedly, I now tend to skip his posts, so is he a Frat Boy? He behaves like it, but claims to be an attorney ("an important one!!")

Okay, so that gets me leaning toward the Obnoxious Award.

Consider Jay as another nomination.

Posted by: jcricket on March 11, 2006 at 12:02 PM | PERMALINK

Charlie, I'm not going to try and convince you that Ogged is an intelligent guy, though I do believe that he is, but that's not the point.

It's just as a simple principle of how to communicate effectively and appeal to others reading your comments, and I have a hard time imagining that those are not the purposes of commenting, it's better to do so a little more, ah, congenially.

And just as a general rule, congenial discussions are more productive. Apologies for being all preachy.

And, I said I wasn't going to do it, but I'm going to just point out what I find interesting about Ogged's post.

first post: an amusing observation about socialized psychology.
second post: a bit of a folksy way of saying that the way to deal with our fear of muslims (not specifically your fear, but the fear of what seems to be the majority of muslims) is to form communities with them. I do think that this is an important observation, the benefits of intermingling are multiple, and the Washington Monthly is a good pad to push such ideas.
third post: seems to me like Ogged may have happened upon a terrific democratic candidate for office. Not many people could make a phone call to David Stern about running for office, but perhaps someone who does have such political oomph reads the Washington Monthly. Again, good use of the platform.
fourth post: an interesting and again humorous observation, this time about the blog culture, which, really, is never out of place on a blog.

Posts 1 and 4 weren't steeped with a higher purpose, as some here seem to be wanting, but they were, I thought, good reads, and it's not as if Ogged has limited number of posts - just a limited time.

Posted by: Michael on March 11, 2006 at 12:51 PM | PERMALINK

When will I learn to proofread?

In the parenthetical in the bit about Ogged's 2nd post, it should be "majority of Americans"

Posted by: Michael on March 11, 2006 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

Consider Jay as another nomination.
Posted by: jcricket

Jay and Conspiracy Nut are one and the same. Two of the many heads of a single hydra.

Posted by: CFShep on March 11, 2006 at 1:01 PM | PERMALINK

Put up or shut up? My own blog is well known and does not insult the reader by pandering to lowest-common-denominator humor. I thought the link was coming up in my post sigs, but I guess that isn't working.

Sorry, this recent post by Ogged was just the straw that broke the camel's back. It reminded me of a lecture, nay, a rant, by my old Journalism professor. He came in to class one day, and handed out a xerox of the local sports columnist's latest article. He lectured about this article, getting angrier and angrier, his face progressively getting reddeer and redder, as he denounced the sportswriter. He first attacked the whole profession of sportswriting as a pack of cliches, and then trotted out a list of synonyms for "win" and "lose" that were staples of the sportswriter's repertoire. He said that the whole profession was nothing but a bunch of hacks trying to find new ways to say either "Team Wins" or "Team loses." He said even the best sportswriters were the worst writers on the newspaper, but special opprobrium should be reserved for sports columnists, who NEVER have any scores to report, and are always fishing for new cliches to spout. But what really separates the men from the boys on the sports writing staff is that a good sports columnist never runs out of cliches, or at the least, is never embarassed at his over-repetition of the same old cliches. BUT, he said, BUT.. THIS column (as he waved the offending newsprint in the air) breaks ALL the rules of journalism. The writer proves he has nothing to say whatsoever, by writing about sportswriting. Then he singled out a paragraph in the article, where the columnist demonstrates the use of tiny agate type, writing some twaddle like "This paragraph is set in agate type, all I have to do is type a tag [agate] and the typesetter puts it in tiny 7 point type. This is the typeface we use when reporting masses of scores. And then II just type another tag and the typeface goes back to the normal size." And the next paragraph changed typefaces back to the normal typeface. The columnist then proceeded to demonstrate how he could order the column to be indented, and returned to normal width, and several other typographic tricks. The typesetter (who in those days, was using hot lead on a linotype) must have been annoyed.
But my professor was enraged. He lashed out at the hack columnist not just for the use of 7 point type in a text story, rendering the text almost unreadable, but for bothering the audience with the mechanics of typesetting. People do not go to the sports page to learn about typesetting or the mechanics of publishing articles in a newspaper.
He raged on, "THIS is how you tell when a writer has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SAY, when he WRITES ABOUT WRITING."

I have spent many years observing writers and their "metas" and I absolutely agree with my old professor. When a blogger like Ogged blathers about blogging, he is proving he has nothing to say. Why the HELL would Kevin put his blog in the hands of someone with NOTHING to say?

Posted by: charlie don't surf on March 11, 2006 at 1:05 PM | PERMALINK

I agree with Charlie Don't Surf. Clearly Drum must have been out of his mind. Obviously Charlie himself is the person who should be guest-blogging.

Charlie, if I were you, I'd leave in a huff.

Posted by: bitchphd on March 11, 2006 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINK

shorter charlie don't surf:

"wah, why didn't Kevin make ME teh guest poster."

You fucking cunt. Quit yer bitchin', you Manson worshiping bottom feeder.

BTW I've never heard of your 'well known' blog.
I have, however, heard of Unfogged.

Imagine that.

Cunt.


Did I mention you are a fucking cunt?

Posted by: shut the fuck up on March 11, 2006 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK

When will I learn to proofread?

Oh god. Michael, the first step to improvement is recognizing you have a problem, so you're well on your way.

You've made me proud today, Michael.

Posted by: ben wolfson on March 11, 2006 at 1:46 PM | PERMALINK



Posted by: Pat on March 11, 2006 at 1:49 PM | PERMALINK

CHarlie's funny. He doesn't like Ogged's self-referentiality, but the first three posts on his own blog are about his electronics hardware problems.

Posted by: John Emerson on March 11, 2006 at 1:54 PM | PERMALINK

My own blog is well known

TTLB rank:
Unfogged - 1580
disinfotainment - 18904

does not insult the reader by pandering to lowest-common-denominator humor

Humorlessness is inherent to "my electronics are broken" blogging. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Kudos on your highminded earnestness.

Why the HELL would Kevin put his blog in the hands of someone with NOTHING to say?

Perhaps to achieve stylistic consistency with his comments section.

Posted by: agreed on March 11, 2006 at 1:55 PM | PERMALINK

You said it all, Pat. Don't overlook these famous trolls:

Charlie (the real one who got banned by Kevin)
Honest Joe

Those were the days.

Posted by: bobbyp on March 11, 2006 at 2:04 PM | PERMALINK

Why the hell is ogged posting navel-gazing tripe while innocent people are suffering? In the time it took to read charlie's anecdote, 84 people died of boredom.

Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate on March 11, 2006 at 2:22 PM | PERMALINK

Michael, you misrepresent the original post. You write:
It's just as a simple principle of how to communicate effectively and appeal to others reading your comments, and I have a hard time imagining that those are not the purposes of commenting, it's better to do so a little more, ah, congenially.

And just as a general rule, congenial discussions are more productive. Apologies for being all preachy.

second post: a bit of a folksy way of saying that the way to deal with our fear of muslims (not specifically your fear, but the fear of what seems to be the majority of muslims) is to form communities with them.

Granted about the congeniality. But who's he presuming to school on rhetoric, political strategy, and neighborliness? We've got slams on liberals and on leftys, both of whom are mischaracterized. Ogged claims liberals & radicals are so inhuman those bleeding hearts don't even have right ventricles, and even then in their heart of hearts they fear Muslims.

There's nothing congenial at all about that slam.

Right-wingers have used the same rhetorical strategies Ogged cuts down. Who does he think is forming those communities out across the country? Could it be pie-baking liberals?

Ogged is self-contradictory. He demands liberals recognize that fears of Muslim terrorism is reality-based, then insists our risk is vanishingly small. I'll say it again: the sweeping mischaracterization of liberals (&/or Americans) is if not racist or scapegoating, then a clear attempt to police the boundaries of "his" group, and extend the ill-considered self-hating/self-criticizing tendency of Democrats/liberals/Americans.

I've already got lots and lots and lots of pie.
Pie is not the issue. It is as William Burroughs said: rather than go after the fearmongers (Bush, the big dogs), the second-biggest guy in the group(DLC, 'centrist' Dems) will always attack the littlest, frailest guy in the group. They do it to prove a point to the Alpha male, or to cover their own cowardice, or to cement second rank for viciousness. We've been baking and sharing pie for five long years and Ogged goes after us instead of Lieberman or Bush. Nice going -- but not hardly genial.

Posted by: SombreroFallout on March 11, 2006 at 2:52 PM | PERMALINK

Well at least Mr. "Agreed" concurs that Ogged is on the level of comment trolls. And as for Mr. Emerson's complaints, there is a difference between my blogging about my experiences and Ogged metablogging about blogging (and on someone else's blog too). And I have no desire to be a guest blogger here, I have my own blog, and I don't need 5 co-bloggers to help whore for ratings like Ogged does.
But this isn't about me, it's about Ogged. So don't bother with the ad hominem attacks.

Posted by: charlie don't surf on March 11, 2006 at 5:08 PM | PERMALINK

And I have no desire to be a guest blogger here, I have my own blog, and I don't need 5 co-bloggers to help whore for ratings like Ogged does. But this isn't about me, it's about Ogged. So don't bother with the ad hominem attacks.

There's something beautiful about the simplicity of the cluelessness on display here. Bravo!

Posted by: Matt Harvey on March 11, 2006 at 5:37 PM | PERMALINK

CFShep, Ace Franze, jcricket, et al.:

Thanks for your suggestions. You know, trolls are kinda like
cockroaches. Just when you think you've dealt with them all ...

I can't believe I forgot FWG, meatss (what is it with these
guys and obesity tropes?) and Jay, of all creatures ...

So here's my updated nomination list:

1) SERIOUS TROLLS

1) tbrosz
2) rdw (real)
3) Michael L. Cook
4) Steve White
5) Will Allen
6) republicrat

2) OBNOXIOUS TROLLS

1) conspiracy nut
2) McAristotle
3) Jay
4) theAmericanist
5) Fat White Guy
6) The Als (I can't tell real from fake)
7) Mike K
8) Birkel
9) Norman

3) FREEPER DRONES

1) GOPGregory
2) BigRiver
3) Freedom Fighter
4) Paddy Whack
5) peanut
6) clock
7) Brian

4) MISCELLANEOUS PSYCHOTICS

1) Patton
2) The Objective Historian
3) Cheney
4) meatss

5) TROLL PARODIES

1) tbrosz (helicalrocket)
2) tbrosz (circularstrawman)
3) tbrosz (rotaryrectum)
4) tbrosz (swivellingsphincter)
5) Freedom Fukkher
6) Al (impossible to tell, so he's a nominee in both categories)
7) rdw (fake -- uses the same email as the real Wooten)

6) TROLL COMMENTATORS

1) Ogged
2) Debra Dickerson

Again, if I've left out anyone particularly noteworthy,
please submit your amendments 'n' nominations today!

A word about the new nominations:

FWG and Jay didn't take much thought -- the sine qa non of the
Obnoxious Troll is his (they're never her) explicit desire to
provoke and be a pain in the ass. Lowers them from the Serious
Troll (who really thinks he's just, you know, honestly trying
to have a discussion) and elevates them from the Freeper
Drone (who's incapable of transcending the talking points).

I wrestled a little with theAmericanist because he's clearly
a serious guy with a lot of knowledge, and he can be quite a
constructive contributor in threads where he's not debating.
But *every single time* he disagrees with us he makes it
personal in the most juvenile and self-righteous kind of way.

My problem with Ogged's Muslim post is that he's an Uncle Ahmed.
He's not any freaking *Muslim*, he's an assimilated Iranian-American.
Which gives him the same orientation to Muslim terrorists as I'd have,
as an Irish-American, to the IRA when they were blowing up London
pubs. He's *running screaming* from his own heritage (which, you
know, I'd probably do if I were him, just as I ran screaming from
my Catholic upbringing), like that Syrian-American psychiatrist
woman in LA who just ripped Mohammed a new one in Arabic on Al
Jazeera. Now she's getting death threats. Well, duh. And they're
trying to invite her now to a conference in Israel -- Nice.

This isn't *promoting understanding*. It's saying "look
how much better *I* am than these fucking knuckledragging
fanatics who make me ashamed of my own heritage."

If you want to understand Muslims, you have to try to understand
them *as they understand themselves*. I will give Ogged credit
for recommending the NYT series on that Egyptian-born Brooklyn
imam. *That's* a guy who's genuinely straddling two cultures
and working at developing a synthesis between them.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on March 11, 2006 at 6:19 PM | PERMALINK

I don't need 5 co-bloggers to help whore for ratings

This is the point in the fight where people of good will start pleading with you to just stay down, Charlie.

Posted by: apostropher on March 11, 2006 at 6:47 PM | PERMALINK

I don't need 5 co-bloggers to help whore for ratings

Whew, rough night. That Atrios is kinda freaky, but Unfogged did get an inbound link out of the deal,so I guess it's worth it. I shudder to think what Glen Reynolds will ask of me tomorrow.

Posted by: Tia on March 11, 2006 at 9:31 PM | PERMALINK

Sigh...fellow bloggers can be so wearying. While most of them are perfectly decent people who are aware of their insignificance, there's a robust minority whose egos far outstrip anything they might possibly contribute to the blogosphere. If you think I'm referring to some of the commentators here, you might be on to something.

Posted by: Alexander Wolfe on March 11, 2006 at 9:34 PM | PERMALINK

Ha! Kevin.

You might remember me from two years ago as the fellow behind the blog Times New Roman Online (I used to be a frequent commenter at Calpundit). I was working as a waiter when I started my site, but the whole thing got a tad tiresome. I dropped it and started waiterblog.

One year later, and I'm writing full time as a restaurant critic for a city paper and as a food writer for three magazines.

Not all waiters are delusional. ;-)

Posted by: Andrew Morrison on March 12, 2006 at 12:46 AM | PERMALINK

Bob: "just as I ran screaming from
my Catholic upbringing"

I just knew we had a lot in common. Nothing like Catholicism to innoculate one against dogma and ideology, eh?

Boy, those two loooooong years at Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception (I still take fright at navy blue pleated skirts in an almost Pavlovian way - heh) really did it for me.

Posted by: CFShep on March 12, 2006 at 7:47 AM | PERMALINK

Sigh...fellow bloggers can be so wearying. While most of them are perfectly decent people who are aware of their insignificance, there's a robust minority whose egos far outstrip anything they might possibly contribute to the blogosphere. If you think I'm referring to some of the commentators here, you might be on to something.

Posted by: Alexander Wolfe on March 11, 2006 at 9:34 PM |

Yeah, but which ones? It's so hard to differentiate. One accurate comment and suddenly the whole flock is pecking away and the feathers are flying and Arlo Guthrie is immortalizing the whole cockfight in epic-length song involving trains and restaurants and...

And yes, I do mean that.

Posted by: SombreroFallout on March 12, 2006 at 10:07 AM | PERMALINK

I want to thank all of the little people that made my nomination possible. It means a lot to be recognized by the Academy and to be mentioned along with trolls like conspiracy, rdw and McA really means a lot. I can't thank you enough and I hope not to let you down in my future taunts.

Posted by: Jay on March 12, 2006 at 10:08 AM | PERMALINK

Check out link below for proof that terminal operations matter to port security.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PORTS_SECURITY_STUDY?SITE=WIMIL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Study Warns of Lapses by Port Operators
By TED BRIDIS , AP

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Lapses by private port operators, shipping lines or truck drivers could allow terrorists to smuggle weapons of mass destruction into the United States, according to a government review of security at American seaports.

Posted by: SombreroFallout on March 12, 2006 at 12:43 PM | PERMALINK

Jay:

You weren't mentioned along with *rdw*. Rdw's a Serious Troll -- that's Dante's Fourth Circle of Hell. You're an Obnoxious Troll, which is like five rungs down ...

*confusion commences as attendents in white hypo Cheney in the butt and hustle him off the stage as the music swells and the emcee steps to center stage*

CFShep: *Ancient and impossibly bitter nun pointing a wizened finger at a 14-year-old girl in my Confirmation class whose mom took her to the mall recently*

"That skirt couldn't get any shorter, could it."

*looking around the room, squinting viciously*

"Do you know what Jesus did for YOOOUUUUUUU ?"

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on March 12, 2006 at 1:41 PM | PERMALINK

What's this strange obsession with making a living as a blogger? Originally, blogging was an amateur pasttime, a streamlined way of discussing topics of interest to you on the net, which people have been doing for 30 years without expecting to make a living from.

Aspirations to "professional" blogging get their impulse, I believe, from "obsessional" blogging -- if your entire life is spent blogging, you'd just better well figure out a way of getting some money from it.

Posted by: Jason Stokes on March 12, 2006 at 9:17 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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