Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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April 3, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

REID ON REPUBLICANS....Via the Carpetbagger, U.S. News & World Report's "Washington Whispers" column rounds up the latest remarks from Harry Reid about his Republican counterparts:

Sen. Harry Reid, the Democratic leader, makes no bones about disliking most of his GOP colleagues. "Republicans in the Senate," he says, "do not represent mainstream Republicans in this country. Mainstream Republicans in this country are more moderate and more thoughtful than the people I work with who are in the majority in the Senate." Ouch. Well, of the 55 GOP-ers, he's gotta like a few, right? "Someone asked me the other day," he says, "'Who are the moderate Republicans?' Hmm. Well, you've got Lincoln Chafee [of Rhode Island], sometimes the two senators from Maine [Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins], and Arlen Specter [of Pennsylvania] whenever you don't need him. That's it." Double ouch.

He sounds kind of like FDR when he talks like that, doesn't he? More, please.

Kevin Drum 12:37 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (156)

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Comments

The Specter comment is the best.

Posted by: Rob on April 3, 2006 at 12:44 PM | PERMALINK

Sheesh, Kevin, I used to enjoy reading your posts even though I disagreed with you. Now you're just being shrill like Atrios and Kos with your contentless Bush bashing. I guess since you don't have any substantive complaints against Bush that's all you're left with.

Posted by: Al on April 3, 2006 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, Kevin. Listen to Al and me when we call you "shrill," and go back to defending Bush on ports, and countering people like Atrios.

Shrill shrill shrill. See how irrefutable Al and I are?

Posted by: Freedom Phukher on April 3, 2006 at 12:49 PM | PERMALINK

Al, does this mean you're leaving? Don't tease us now.

Posted by: Ace Franze on April 3, 2006 at 12:50 PM | PERMALINK

Al nails it! Reading the piece, I see the numerous mentions of Bush and all the Bush-bashing. Stop your bashing, you hurtful liberals!

Posted by: HappyConservative on April 3, 2006 at 12:50 PM | PERMALINK

Oh, great fake Al today, since, of course, neither Kevin nor Reid mentioned Bush at all!

Back on topic, driving a wedge between the Radicals who hold the power in the GOP and moderate, reasonable conservatives (snd, better yet, independents) is exactly what the Democrats need to be doing. The right wing has embarked on a largely successful campaign to define and distort their opponents' agenda, to the point where "liberal" is now a dirty word. Throw in that survey from 2004 that pointed out that many Bush voters beleived he held diametrically opposite views from their actual stances, and it's clear that the American body politic is in desperate need of real fairness and balance.

Of course, for that, we need a media that is not so much liberal ("liberal media," my foot) as willing to do its job. Fat chance.

Posted by: Gregory on April 3, 2006 at 12:52 PM | PERMALINK

Al -

There wasn't any Bush bashing in this post. That, and, you're a fake because the real Al is dead from cancer.

Yeah that Specter remark was priceless. I've seen some "Democrats" here in Philadelphia support Specter because he's good for business in the region and somehow manages to maintain a veneer of moderation (perhaps it's merely by comparison with our other senator).

But he's only moderate when it doesn't matter. If anything comes along that would require him to stand up to the radicals in his party, he caves. Maybe next time the people who see him as moderate, in addition to being beneficial to their business interests will be a little less naive.

Posted by: phleabo on April 3, 2006 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

'Al' left a long time ago. These days, 'Al' is really an anoymous collective that spoofs the original poster child. 'Al' has become the Col. Blimp of Calpundit, but in a way that allows everyone to contribute to the caricature.

Posted by: David W. on April 3, 2006 at 12:55 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, but . . . Democrats seem incapable of making this kind of brutally honest comment, without soon having second thoughts and issuing an apology. This is one of the main ways that Dems and Rethugs are different: The Rethugs play hardball and don't back down; the Dems follow the Marquis of Queesnbury rules and cave at the drop of a hat. So I say: let's don't be celebrating Harry's bold candor until we see if he sticks by his guns.

Posted by: Doofus on April 3, 2006 at 12:55 PM | PERMALINK

Reid is sending a message of contempt and dismissiveness.

Much more effective than saying, "I wish my honorable colleagues on the other side of the aisle would work with us . . . .".

This is the next best thing to humor, which is preferable to any other method when at all possible.

Posted by: JB (not John Bolton) on April 3, 2006 at 12:56 PM | PERMALINK

as we have all come to expect, there is no reason for some posters to deal with facts because their ad hominem attacks eschew reason strike immediately at the emotions.

Posted by: stumpy on April 3, 2006 at 12:58 PM | PERMALINK

A sterling comment about Specter, but Doofus is right: Let's see if he sticks by it, and more importantly, if any other Congressional Dems back him up when the media questions them about this.

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 12:59 PM | PERMALINK

Well, that was an ouch. But I'm not sure I agree with him that republicans around the country are more moderate. They voted for these guys, after all - knowing full well what they stood for.

Posted by: Josh Yelon on April 3, 2006 at 1:01 PM | PERMALINK

What are you all talking about? Clinton (D-NY) said that the GOP runs the House like a plantation and got back up from Obama and Meeks and few pulled back or apologized--definitely not her.

Posted by: gq on April 3, 2006 at 1:02 PM | PERMALINK

The Specter comment is great, and it also applies to Lieberman, the Republican-in-waiting.

Posted by: craigie on April 3, 2006 at 1:05 PM | PERMALINK

...Lieberman, the Republican-in-waiting.

Sorry if I've told this before, but a friend and I have a running joke that loser Lieberman will jump ship and join the GOP when it's too late to do him any political good whatsoever. Look for Joe's crisis of conscience in late 2007 or so.

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 1:08 PM | PERMALINK

I think that there are so many easy targets within the administration -- its practices of deception and illegal activities, its disdain for our civil liberties, its pandering to the moronic religious right, its incompetence -- that the Reid comments sound downright civil. Republicans in the Senate must be grateful.

Posted by: lib on April 3, 2006 at 1:09 PM | PERMALINK

Can we have one day where we don't have to talk about Hillary? please. I mean, with daylight savings, I'm too tired to hear about Hillary.

OT: I just wrote to Lynn Swann complaining that he's running for Gov. as a Republican. I wore 88 in high school and my great-granfather was commissioner of Allegheny County. How on earth could he be a Republican? Today is just a bad day it seems.

Posted by: enozinho on April 3, 2006 at 1:09 PM | PERMALINK

I am a little confused. The last Senator Minority leader Daschle was taken out and not supported for these same kinds of comments. What has changed that makes Senator Reid beliee that the same type of stands will not also cause him to loose his office. Also, why is he not talking about their taking back control of the Senate in 2006?

Posted by: daveyo on April 3, 2006 at 1:09 PM | PERMALINK

Reid is just pissed because he keeps getting wedgied in the Senate locker room. What a little twirp.

Posted by: BlaBlaBla on April 3, 2006 at 1:09 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe it's because I live in solidly-red Oklahoma, but I'm not so sure "mainstream Republicans," as Reid has it, are any less radical. From where I stand, sometimes they're more nuts.

But, on the other hand, I've always believed that Weakness #1 among the wingnuts (well, apart from their abject stupidity) is their apparent belief that everyone who votes Republican is as ideologically strident as they are - they see that 60 million people voted for Bush in 2004 and they think it means there are at least 60 million wingnuts. It ain't so.

Posted by: Alek Hidell on April 3, 2006 at 1:10 PM | PERMALINK

I notice that Reid doesn't include McCain in the decent Republican group, either. Nor Kay B. Hutchison.

Glad I am not the only one who thinks this about Republican politicians. I used to dislike Republicans one at a time, like Phil Gramm, but now it has reached a point where I can dislike them en masse. It's much more efficient this way.

Posted by: Rick B on April 3, 2006 at 1:14 PM | PERMALINK

According to the ADA, Chaffee(R) scores 75%, solidly liberal. Snowe(R) and Collins(R) score 65%, fairly liberal. The only moderate Dem is Nelson (Ben, NE) at 55%. Lieberman scores 80%. (Corzine scored 65 only due to a bunch of missed votes).

So, Repubs have 3 Senators that score liberal, and the Repub scoring runs from 0 to 75, a range of 75. Dems have 1 Senator that scores moderate, and scoring runs from 55 to 100, a range of 45. Hmmm, I wonder which party shows more variety of viewpoint?

Of course, Reid himself scores 100%, so he's coming from well friggin left of center.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 1:17 PM | PERMALINK

Is Reid trying to position himself for a run for pres in 2008. I know that Frist is not seeking re-election so he can run from outside of the senate. Which democratic senator(and there are many) has the best shot?

Posted by: daveyo on April 3, 2006 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINK

He sounds kind of like FDR when he talks like that, doesn't he? More, please. Kevin Drum

As he's proven throughout his brief tenure as Senate minority leader, talk is cheap. If he doesn't like most of the Rethugs, and doesn't think they represent even "mainstream" Rethugs and, one would assume, American values in general, why the hell doesn't he fight? Reid's a pussy. More outspoken than Daschelle, but just as ineffective.

Posted by: Jeff II on April 3, 2006 at 1:23 PM | PERMALINK

"Republicans in the Senate," he says, "do not represent mainstream Republicans in this country"

No kidding. And many Democratic Senators are well to the the Left of mainstream Democrats. That's a product of the primary system and direct election of Senators - the Senate begins to look and behave more like the House and reflect the concerns of party activists.

This is aside from the ego-driven fact that most Senators believe themselves at any given time to be a President of the United States in waiting.

Posted by: mark afranski on April 3, 2006 at 1:25 PM | PERMALINK

*Is* the real Al dead, or is that just blog legend?

Posted by: tavella on April 3, 2006 at 1:27 PM | PERMALINK

"How on earth could he be a Republican?"
Posted by: enozinho

Well on the at first glance I'de say he thinks for himself.
I grew up in a dem household in the dem state of NY. I joined the navy, saw the world, thought for myself and came back a...well more so than not...repube. It happens. Swann wasn't the first and won't be the last. *evil, maniacle laughter*

Posted by: Lurker42 on April 3, 2006 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

With So many Senators trying to get air time, is this just a play to get the attention from the Wisconsin senator?

Posted by: daveyo on April 3, 2006 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

Daveyo: NO democratic senator - no member of Congress of either party, for that matter - has an ice flow's chance in global warming of winning the presidency. No sitting congress critter has won the presidency since JFK in '60, and before that it was Harding in 1920. Never happen again. It's VPs and governors from now on. Bill Richardson in '08!

Posted by: yellowdog on April 3, 2006 at 1:34 PM | PERMALINK

It's VPs and governors from now on. Bill Richardson in '08!

If Hillary runs, I'm starting a Jerome Bettis write-in campaign.

Posted by: enozinho on April 3, 2006 at 1:41 PM | PERMALINK

yellowdog, congratulations you won todays trivia quiz. So with those facts in hand, why is so much made of Hillary, McCain, Frist, Feinstein, Kerry, Edwards..... It is a fact that since that time you mentioned only southern and western govenors have been elected, plus v.p.s. So then in reality who does that leave as electible by either party?

Posted by: daveyo on April 3, 2006 at 1:42 PM | PERMALINK

Isn't the truth of the assertion the only air-tight defense against libel?

Posted by: Davis X. Machina on April 3, 2006 at 1:50 PM | PERMALINK

I have not liked Specter since the Anita Hill hearings, when he came at her like the good attack dog they asked him to be. His situational moderation is chimera.

Posted by: patrick on April 3, 2006 at 1:51 PM | PERMALINK

I've been compiling some more numbers from the ADA, because I know you lefties are dying to know.

22 Dem Senators, 50% of them, score 100%. 5 Repub Senators, 9% of them, score 0%. Gosh, which party has the extremists?

39 of 44 Democratic Senators score 90% or above. Ya, such a wide spread of ideas. The reason that Reid works so well with Democrats is that they all share the same brain.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 1:51 PM | PERMALINK

Ya gotta link, c-nut? I'd like to run some comparisons of my own...

Thanks in advance.

Posted by: grape_crush on April 3, 2006 at 1:53 PM | PERMALINK

Sure Grape, it's the ADA, Americans for Democratic Action, "America's oldest independent liberal lobbying organization." I'd have thought that every lefty would know about the ADA. Or at least Google.

But here's your link. You'll want to go to Publications>2005 Voting Records. But I linked to the main page so you can browse.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 2:00 PM | PERMALINK

Me, I'm just waiting to here who the ADA is. Knowing conspiracy nut, he's probably talking about the American Dental Association.

Posted by: Mithrandir on April 3, 2006 at 2:01 PM | PERMALINK

Aw, I hate to feed the troll, but two questions for c-nut:

1) Do you ever read anything besides the ADA ratings, Ann Coulter and the Fake Al Gore Quotes site? "Such a wide spread of ideas" is incredibly ironic coming from someone of your astonishingly limited range.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to have a spambot recycle your entire repertoire of 10 sentences? Or is this a work release program you're in? (Hint: "I work for the DNC" is growing whiskers; try something with less mold on it.)

2) In what part of the U.S. is "ya" an acceptable spelling or pronunciation for "yeah"? (Other, more knowledgeable people feel free to chime in.)

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 2:01 PM | PERMALINK

Me, I'm just waiting to here who the ADA is.

You missed conspiracy's 10,592 previous references to it?

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 2:03 PM | PERMALINK

Harry Reid, a true Democrat: Harry Reid wants amnesty for illegal aliens who are taking jobs that could go to Katrina victims

Supporting those citizens of other countries who are taking jobs from American hurricane victims is exactly what FDR would have done.

Posted by: TLB on April 3, 2006 at 2:05 PM | PERMALINK

We are so disgusted with our do-nothing, say-nothing democrats, shrill republican jingoism and easy Diebold fraud, many of us are without a party to be passionate about. Arlen Specter may have done some good work, but I cannot forgive the 'magic bullet' theory. The only one out there willing to put an original thought and himself on the line is Russ Fiengold.

Posted by: GS on April 3, 2006 at 2:07 PM | PERMALINK

yes, link would be helpful for methodology as well. Is each vote binary (ie, either liberal or conservative)? With conservatives being the ones bringing up the legislation, most of the legislation would be conservative, and the truly moderate position would not be at 50% but closer to 100%. IE, the truly moderate position would be closer to the most liberal legislation brought up a conservative body, just as the most conservative legislation brought up by a liberal body would actually be moderate.

Posted by: ibid on April 3, 2006 at 2:07 PM | PERMALINK

Me, I'm just waiting to here who the ADA is. Knowing conspiracy nut, he's probably talking about the American Dental Association. Posted by: Mithrandir

Nope. He's referencing the Americas with Disabilities Act hoping against hope that being an (apparently) incurable asshole will be recognized as a disability that prevents him from working. Then he can collect SS early while posting from his mother's basement.

Posted by: Jeff II on April 3, 2006 at 2:08 PM | PERMALINK

Gosh, Conspiracy Nut, it seems if you look at the ratings put out by the American Conservative Union, 12 GOP Senators scored a perfect 100% in 2005, while 8 Democrats scored 0%. 46 Republicans score 80% or over, while 40 Democrats scored 20% or under.

I guess it a. depends which organization's scorecard you look at; b. depends what you mean by "extremist" and how you derive that from percentages of votes taht accord with some interest lobby, which is actually not possible; and c. is something you should only really try to do by looking at the actual BILLS they were voting on, don't you think?

Posted by: brooksfoe on April 3, 2006 at 2:10 PM | PERMALINK

c. is something you should only really try to do by looking at the actual BILLS they were voting on, don't you think?

Are you insane? That would involve research and critical thinking!

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 2:13 PM | PERMALINK

cn, who has the dem brain today?

Yes, we need more rhetoric like that from that manly man Harry Reid. With Harry and Nancy leading this party in their respective houses why the Dems are sure to command the respect of the American people hahahahahahahahahahahahah

I'm sorry, I couldn't say that with a straight face.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 2:13 PM | PERMALINK

And how is this - if I don't agree with you I don't like you and do not consider you "thoughtful" - rhetoric supposed to make us conservatives think the Democratic senate leader is a mature, thoughtful, gentleman?

Really the level of discourse in this country has sunk to a new low. Historically people in the government still had respect for people of the other party.

Clearly this is just red meat for the partisans out there - there must be some people in the senate that Reid disagrees with but he considers palatable company.

This is just another case of the left projecting and accusing the right of what they are doing. Its guess it is pretty hard to like people you smugly think you are so much better than.

If one of the Republican leadership made this kind of remark I would be seriously dissapointed in him. I can't for the life of me consider why Kevin thinks this is a positive turn of events.

Posted by: John Hansen on April 3, 2006 at 2:14 PM | PERMALINK

Conspiracy Nut--I call bullshit. 2005 ADA Senate records show that 53 out of 55 Republicans are at 0%-20% on the "Liberal Quotient" scale, with 39 of those in the 0%-10% range. Wow, what a moderate bunch!

Posted by: Paul on April 3, 2006 at 2:14 PM | PERMALINK

39 of 44 Democratic Senators score 90% or above. Ya, such a wide spread of ideas.

Nutball, this is cute, but let's just think about this for a second, shall we? What this measure is the approval rating for votes on measures that were brought to the floor for a vote.

How did they get there? Well, in theory, a bi-partisan committee worked out their language and then scheduled them for a vote. In practice, Rove wrote the most insane language he could think of, to serve the only real constituency the GOP has, which is really, really, really big business, and then strongarmed the measure onto the floor, in the middle of the night, with no markup, lots of magic riders, etc etc.

The Dems are not currently in a position to get legislation to the floor, so they are reduced, mostly, to their opposition role of saying "no." Which, thankfully, most of them have done. And, interestingly, a few members of the GOP seem a little embarrassed by all this too. So their votes are scattered around a bit more.

But these percentages hardly measure what you say they do. What they really measure is the extent to which the White House and the GOP in general are not interested in the welfare of the country as a whole, only in selling off legislative control to the highest bidder.

Posted by: craigie on April 3, 2006 at 2:15 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop
Thanks for the interest. As for 1), the ADA is a wonderful thing for pointing out how far out of the mainstream Democrats are, so it never gets old. And I only linked Coulter once. (Well, twice, but some lefty actually asked for the link the second time. I placed copious warnings.) As for my limited repertoire, I like to stick with what works.

Now, on to 2), what up? Are you uneducated in the proper use of slang? I can help with that, as well. From The Urban Dictionary

1. ya
1) A shortened version of "yeah", commonly used on the internet in chat rooms and e-mail.
2) A slang version of you

1) Ya, I don't masturbate anymore because I have to talk to Sophie
2) I feel so tired today, ya know?

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 2:17 PM | PERMALINK

Really the level of discourse in this country has sunk to a new low. Historically people in the government still had respect for people of the other party.

Even if this were true, do you really have to ask which party tossed this idea out the window? Hint: Republicans. I date the brain tumor to 1992, when the apostate Clinton was elected. Your boys have been barking at the moon ever since.

Posted by: craigie on April 3, 2006 at 2:17 PM | PERMALINK

Paul, there are many moderate repubs, just not insane ones. The "Liberal Quotient" measures insanity, hence the high score for manly Harry.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 2:18 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 2:01 PM:

In what part of the U.S. is "ya" an acceptable spelling or pronunciation for "yeah"?

Actually, 'ya' is colloquialism for 'you', not 'yeah'...'Yes' and 'yeah' are represented in certain northern US areas as 'yah'...Think of the movie Fargo or what I had to deal with during my high school years.

Case in point: The 'Say yah to dah U.P., eh?' bumper sticker or the phrase 'Ya sure, ya betcha'...Kind of a weird melange of Canuck and Finn accents...

Posted by: grape_crush on April 3, 2006 at 2:19 PM | PERMALINK

Its guess it is pretty hard to like people you smugly think you are so much better than.

You mean Senate Republicans? Yeah, it is pretty hard to like them.

Posted by: brooksfoe on April 3, 2006 at 2:21 PM | PERMALINK

Aw craigie, how about in the 80's when Reagan called Russia the evil empire and the dems went nuts, calling him senile and apt to cause WWIII. Well, I guess we all know how that turned out.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 2:21 PM | PERMALINK

John Hansen is right. If Harry had simply told the Senate Republicans to go fuck themselves, we could have preserved the dignity and tradition of the institution a little longer.

c-nut: Ah, the Urban Dictionary; another favorite of non-readers. Tell me, have you ever heard anyone over the age of 16 use "ya" for "yeah"? And what part of the U.S. did you say you live in? Why won't you ever answer that question?

Jay, would Harry be manlier if he chickened out of Vietnam like you did, or defended raping 12-year-old girls like you do? Would that make him he-man enough for you?

That was fun, but enough bitchslapping of trolls for me. Back on topic, does anyone ever wonder if Snowe and Collins will eventually snap and bolt?

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 2:22 PM | PERMALINK

The Canuck being the operative word here, grapey.

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

Craigie
Nice attempt at spin. But looking at the voting records long term (for those that have been there long term) show a lot of consistency in scores. And guess what, the Senate hasn't always been in Repub hands and Bush and Rove haven't always been in the WH.

Not a very valiant effort.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

It's true that Republicans in the Senate are not representative of Republican voters, but that's because they're corrupt, excessively political, and not genuinely committed to conservative ideology. It's absurd to suggest that centrist Republicans like Chafee and Specter better represent the political views of Republican voters. There are plenty of fair criticisms of Republican senators, but this isn't one of them.

Posted by: FXKLM on April 3, 2006 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

Harry Reid talks like a whiner and a loser.

Maybe he doesn't like Republicans because they beat him like a bongo drum? Kinda like the last place team always has grudges against the league champs.

Posted by: Frequency Kenneth on April 3, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

John Hansen is right. If Harry had simply told the Senate Republicans to go fuck themselves, we could have preserved the dignity and tradition of the institution a little longer.

Much, much better!

Posted by: craigie on April 3, 2006 at 2:27 PM | PERMALINK

Jay - yes, bankrupting America has been the hallmark of the republican party.

Posted by: GS on April 3, 2006 at 2:28 PM | PERMALINK

I agree with Frequency!

Posted by: BigRiver on April 3, 2006 at 2:28 PM | PERMALINK

Harry could not be manlier if he had a balls implant. Nancy is more manly than Harry.

12 year old girls are hot shorty, do you have a daughter? And if so how old? someday she'll have a republican "daddy"

I took the Clinton route on the vietnam thing. That's admirable isn't it?

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 2:28 PM | PERMALINK

I agree with Frequency!

Me, too!

Posted by: MountainDan on April 3, 2006 at 2:29 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop
Well, when discussing slang terms, the OED isn't the most useful collection.

As for where I live, I don't recall anyone asking that before. I'm happy to divulge. I live in a little 2 bedroom house, brick with white trim... Oh wait, what part of the US, sorry. Currently I live in a state that Al Gore failed to carry, his home state of TN. But I lived in KS a long time before that. It's nice to live in a state that isn't a pure Repub lock, I actually feel as though my vote counts, now.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 2:29 PM | PERMALINK

America is bankrupt, yet there is nothing wrong with social security, is that it GS?

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 2:30 PM | PERMALINK

craigie: Much, much better!

Than what?

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINK

That was fun, but enough bitchslapping of trolls for me. Back on topic, does anyone ever wonder if Snowe and Collins will eventually snap and bolt?
Posted by: shortstop

Kind of funny that, given what a federal welfare case their state is (must be in the top five in subsidies), they even elect Rethugs. I guess, like NH, they like to think of themselves as strong, independents and such. Bullshit. Tourism must be the only growth industry the state has.

Posted by: Jeff II on April 3, 2006 at 2:35 PM | PERMALINK

Clinton bailed us out of the Reagan debt and SS is said to be intact. Do you think we should use the social security money to pay daily interest to China? Where are you going with this Jay?

Posted by: GS on April 3, 2006 at 2:39 PM | PERMALINK

Hiatt on Democrats:

Re: Real Security (Dem plan)

"...throughout the plan, in fact, there is no disussion of values, of liberty, or generosity and of free markets or foreign aid--of the purpose for American leadership larger than self protection. The pollsters may be satisfied, but John F. Kennedy would not recognize his party."

I think he's right. We're looking for that safe seat.

Posted by: ELR on April 3, 2006 at 2:39 PM | PERMALINK

Gee it is hard to follow this particular blog. Lots of names mentioned. Who is the leader of the Democratic party or at least who is the lead spokes person is it Reid?

Posted by: daveyo on April 3, 2006 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

JFK would be drummed out of the Democratic Party today for being a Republican-in-disguise. You know:

a rising tide lifts all boats instead of wealth redistribution.

bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe 'Nuff said.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 2:23 PM:

The Canuck being the operative word here, grapey.

Michigan; specifically Northern Michigan's Upper Peninsula, northern Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota...I also frequently use 'y'all', because I find that a 2nd-person plural is useful...

Anyway...since when did you become grammar cop? ;)

Posted by: grape_crush on April 3, 2006 at 2:47 PM | PERMALINK

daveyo: Who is the leader of the Democratic party

Well, we just learned Katherine Harris is trying to get in after the entire GOP (except you) dumped her unceremoniously by the side of the road this weekend. Damn, that was fun to watch.

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 2:48 PM | PERMALINK

SS is in tact GS?

The economy bailed us out of the debt that Reagan used to win the cold war. It was the corporate tax benefits towards R&D in the 80's that Reagan spear-headed that fueled the technology economy of the 90's, not Clinton.

So where are you going GS, except to another defeat in '08.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 2:48 PM | PERMALINK

Than what?

Than a poke in the eye? No, than my effort on the same subject. Though I am partial to the phrase "barking at the moon."

Posted by: craigie on April 3, 2006 at 2:48 PM | PERMALINK

I agree with Frequency!

Posted by: craigie on April 3, 2006 at 2:49 PM | PERMALINK

BTW, it was Bill Clinton and Al Gore who first warned the country that SS was headed for a collapse. Nothing has been done to the program yet mysteriously it is now solvent, is that it GS?

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 2:50 PM | PERMALINK

I agree with Frequency!

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 2:51 PM | PERMALINK

I can see a little education in the proper use of ya'll is called for. Pay attention, I only want to have to do this once.

ya'll is singular
all ya'll is plural

ya'll's is singular possessive
all ya'll's is plural possessive

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 2:52 PM | PERMALINK

No, no, grape, that reference wasn't directed at you. I'm not being a grammar cop here, honest--call it an inside joke about another poster's fabrications.

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 2:52 PM | PERMALINK

Frequency nailed it!

Posted by: Apollo 13 on April 3, 2006 at 2:53 PM | PERMALINK

**The economy bailed us out of the debt that Reagan used to win the cold war. It was the corporate tax benefits towards R&D in the 80's that Reagan spear-headed that fueled the technology economy of the 90's, not Clinton.**

jay u have been misinformed the technological wonders of the 90's were driven by Al Gore's internet.

Posted by: Neo the commissar on April 3, 2006 at 2:55 PM | PERMALINK

Hey, my first ever identity theft! I'm so proud of you guys!

Posted by: craigie on April 3, 2006 at 2:55 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop I am sorry if my asking who was the spokes person for the democratic party which included Reid(which is a good part of what this blog is about) offended you. As for Representative Harris. The Democrats in all of their publications have hoped that She would stay in the race. Their worst night mare would be for Jeb or another state elected official to be brought in and thus instead of having a race which Nelson was leading in and thus they could concentrate on other contests, instead they would have to defend their only state elected official. With Her withdraw she will then again run for U.S. Representative and still be in office. As you are aware she has never lost a contest. My personal view is that Gallagher would switch over and run against Nelson, but there is also Toni Jennings. So I guess one should be careful for what they hope for.

Posted by: daveyo on April 3, 2006 at 2:55 PM | PERMALINK

I can see a little education in the proper use of ya'll is called for.

Why don't you start by putting the apostrophe in the correct place, dumbass? Anyone from the South would know that y'all is a contraction of "you all."

Thus, y'all is never singular, although "all y'all" is sometimes used in the plural.

Hey, my first ever identity theft! I'm so proud of you guys!

It's just Jay; he's not real creative in his lashing out. He's stolen my handle a few times, most recently at 2:51.

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 2:58 PM | PERMALINK

That's not me shorty.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 2:59 PM | PERMALINK

But this raises the interesting point: If I were impersonating craigie and Apollo, I'd sure as hell come up with something better than Jay did. I'd make Apollo write haikus about how brilliant shortstop is. And I'd make craigie write funny stuff about how cool shortstop is.

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 3:01 PM | PERMALINK

By the way, I have to agree with Frequency, too.

Posted by: cmdicely on April 3, 2006 at 3:03 PM | PERMALINK

By the way, I have to agree with Frequency, too.

Okay, that made me laugh.

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 3:04 PM | PERMALINK

Again shorty, I know you liberals have a hard time with reality, but I don't post under any other name than my own. I don't understand the brain damage it requires to think like a liberal.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 3:05 PM | PERMALINK

So what, now we're going to argue spelling as well as usage of slang?

Also from the Urban Dictionary

ya'll

Contraction of 'You' and 'All'
Possessive form is only word in English Language to utilize 2 apostrophes (Ya'lls' or Ya'll's)

However, if ya'll (or y'all) is plural, I'll let you explain the use of all ya'll (or all y'all)

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 3:05 PM | PERMALINK

Again shorty, I know you liberals have a hard time with reality, but I don't post under any other name than my own. I don't understand the brain damage it requires to think like a liberal.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 3:05 PM | PERMALINK
jay if u r so disgusted with us why do u spend so much time swimming in this liberal cesspool?

Posted by: Neo the commissar on April 3, 2006 at 3:09 PM | PERMALINK

SS is said to be intact, but this administration is not known for its veracity. Who knows? You think Bush made SS solvent? He wanted to put it in the capable hands of Wall Street but was shot down. I don't know who would want to win in '08 to inherit this disaster, but Bill Clinton is the only one proven capable in our lifetimes.

This is way off topic.

Posted by: GS on April 3, 2006 at 3:09 PM | PERMALINK

cesspool is the proper adjective.

I like to keep up on how imperialist our nation is and how evil and incompetent GW is. Also, I am still looking for that new '08 platform the Dems are going to win on.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 3:19 PM | PERMALINK

Well, nut, despite having looked it up, you're still mispunctuating it. It takes a lot of effort to keep making the same mistakes over and over, but you're always up to the challenge.

Please note that even your Urban Dictionary, which as always includes some flat-out incorrect entries, puts the apostrophe in the correct place--y'all--and notes that it's "often misspelled [sic] as ya'll." (But funny, not by any real Southerner I've ever met.)

As for "all y'all," I explained it above: It's sometimes used as a plural. Think of it as added emphasis. It does not, however, make "y'all" singular in any case whatsoever, except when it's misused by people unclear on the concept.

Try visiting the South sometime and it will all become obvious. Start by traveling to Tennessee; it's beautiful this time of year.

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 3:19 PM | PERMALINK

Capable of what? Staining dress's?

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 3:20 PM | PERMALINK

like to keep up on how imperialist our nation is and how evil and incompetent GW is. Also, I am still looking for that new '08 platform the Dems are going to win on.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 3:19 PM | PERMALINK
u can watch cnn for that. Why not bother the Arabs at al-jezera I think they have a comment section.

Posted by: Neo the commissar on April 3, 2006 at 3:23 PM | PERMALINK

thoughtful" - rhetoric supposed to make us conservatives think the Democratic senate leader is a mature, thoughtful, gentleman?
Really the level of discourse in this country has sunk to a new low

John, as a shameless cheerleader of this administration you're going to trot out "level of discourse" and gentlemanly Senate behavior? You've got to be kidding right?
If not, Go fuck yourself.

Posted by: ckelly on April 3, 2006 at 3:24 PM | PERMALINK

I lived in the south. Y'all is one person or 'you guys' and essentially whoever the hell they mean it to be at the moment.

Posted by: GS on April 3, 2006 at 3:24 PM | PERMALINK

daveyo on April 3, 2006 at 2:55 PM:

As you are aware she has never lost a contest.

So, um, she withdrew to preserve her perfect record, then?

shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 3:01 PM:

But this raises the interesting point...

Truth is, they aren't clever enough to recognize the epitome of coolness that is shortstop...Even Jessica Simpson dissed them, remember?

conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 3:05 PM:

Also from the Urban Dictionary

IIRC, the Urban Dictionary has a wide range of spellings for the same term; 'badunkadunk' and 'gadunkadunk' both mean the same wonderful thing, for example...

Posted by: grape_crush on April 3, 2006 at 3:24 PM | PERMALINK

cesspool is the proper adjective.

As long as I'm correcting dolts' grammar (but not the fine prose of the estimable grape, of course), this is fucking classic!

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 3:26 PM | PERMALINK

So, um, she withdrew to preserve her perfect record, then?

She did--after telling her entire campaign staff: "Run! Save yourselves! Don't worry about me!"

Posted by: shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 3:28 PM | PERMALINK

Aw craigie, how about in the 80's when Reagan called Russia the evil empire and the dems went nuts, calling him senile and apt to cause WWIII. Well, I guess we all know how that turned out.

Yep, he had Alzheimer's.

Posted by: ckelly on April 3, 2006 at 3:28 PM | PERMALINK

Shorty visiting liberal blog sites to correct grammar and spelling is a fucking classic. Much like Harry telling the nation he "killed the Patriot Act". Always clueless and at the wrong spot and the wrong time. A liberal virtue.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 3:32 PM | PERMALINK

It takes a lot of effort to keep making the same mistakes over and over, but you're always up to the challenge.
Consistency is my goal.

Start by traveling to Tennessee; it's beautiful this time of year.
Good advice, the temperatures are real moderate right now. It's going to be getting hot and muggy by the end of the month.

Do I get the impression that you guys don't believe anything I say?

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 3:33 PM | PERMALINK

It was only halfzheimers at that point and the Dems still couldn't beat him.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 3:34 PM | PERMALINK

Hey, Mondale carried his home state.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 3:35 PM | PERMALINK

Was that the catatonic state?

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 3:38 PM | PERMALINK

Don't be makin' fun of cats on Drum's blog.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 3:39 PM | PERMALINK

Tennessee is pretty. When in red as seen on the electoral college map.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 3:41 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop on April 3, 2006 at 3:28 PM:

"Run! Save yourselves! Don't worry about me!"

Heh. More like rats leaving a sinking...Rat.

And you are welcome to check my command of the language anytime, Shortstop the Grammarian...

Posted by: grape_crush on April 3, 2006 at 3:43 PM | PERMALINK

Even prettier was when the state legislature went Repub. Wait for the next gerrymandering.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 3:43 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, capable of staining dress's [sic] and creating a surplus out of the greatest deficit in history (until this one) - including the 70 million dollars used by Ken Starr searching for the stain. Now that was money well spent. The most expensive orgasm in history was sniffed out by the Republican Party. So how many people were killed during that failed impeachment process? None. You might answer that he did not have the balls to go to war against "terrorism", but, uh you really can't say that ... We are comparing a productive presidency against an unproductive destructive one. It boggles the mind. My guess is that you're not writing from Iraq.

Remember "it's the economy stupid?" It still is. This guy should be OUT NOW.

Posted by: GS on April 3, 2006 at 3:45 PM | PERMALINK

Jay on April 3, 2006 at 3:41 PM:

When in red as seen on the electoral college map.

Everything must look better when viewed through Rove-colored glasses...Of course, it's treasonous to say otherwise.

Posted by: grape_crush on April 3, 2006 at 3:46 PM | PERMALINK

Remember "it's the economy stupid?" It still is.
And that fine statement is why GW Bush was re-elected. Dems thought it was the economy, Bush thought it was the terrorists.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 3:49 PM | PERMALINK

2004
Harry Reid (D) 490,232 61
Richard Ziser (R) 282,255 35
Other 30,266 4

Yep, Kenneth, the Republicans sure beat Reid like a drum. What is the name of your special school?

Jay, does your Clinton envy explain why you wear dresses and make the little boys call you "Monica" when you molest them?

Posted by: solar on April 3, 2006 at 3:54 PM | PERMALINK

It is the economy stupid! Record low unemployment, GDP at a 3-4% growth for ten consecutive months, the nasdaq and dow performing at high volumes, minority home ownership at an all time high.

What was your plan again?

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 3:56 PM | PERMALINK

Of course solar, and next time you grab your ankles for me I will expect you to scream "Monica", ok bitch.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 3:57 PM | PERMALINK

What was your plan again?
To say nasty things about Bush.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 3:58 PM | PERMALINK

There is quite a bit of evidence supporting the "we gotta go to war" politics of Bush and Blair. And so much money to spend. "Don't change horses in mid-stream" always works for warmongers. Diebold elected him and he stole the first one.

Posted by: GS on April 3, 2006 at 3:59 PM | PERMALINK

Quite a few Bosnians were killed during the impeachment process as kind of a "distraction" killing.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 3:59 PM | PERMALINK

2300 and counting? I don't think so.

Posted by: GS on April 3, 2006 at 4:01 PM | PERMALINK

It was OK to bomb the Bosnians, France supported that one.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 4:01 PM | PERMALINK

2004
Reid (D) - 490,232
Ziser (R) - 282,255

See, that Abramoff money pays off.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 4:02 PM | PERMALINK

Do you prefer the incompetence "distraction."
War without end.

Posted by: GS on April 3, 2006 at 4:03 PM | PERMALINK

Jay, we all realize that you are, like most hardcore wingnuts, a closeted self-hating gay. Not that there's anything wrong with the gay part of course, it's just that the same cowardice that prevents you from serving your country prevents you from admitting publicly that you are gay (a la Mehlman, Dreier, Gannon, et al.), and in your case, a gay pedophile.

If you'd like to give me the address of your mommy's trailer where you live, I'd be glad to come over and discuss your manners, your deviant lifestyle, and whether the local hospital accepts your Medicaid card.

Posted by: solar on April 3, 2006 at 4:06 PM | PERMALINK

Judging by the comments on this thread, the majority of GOP senators seem pretty representative of the base - in lack of manners, want of intelligence, insincerity, and ignorance.

Posted by: brooksfoe on April 3, 2006 at 4:09 PM | PERMALINK

solar, isn't fucking you in the ass recognition of my gay pedophileness? And why do you call that deviant, I thought liberals were open to sexual expression?

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 4:11 PM | PERMALINK

link

jobs

Posted by: Neo the commissar on April 3, 2006 at 4:11 PM | PERMALINK

No, no, the difference between us trolls and Senate Republicans is that we trolls are in the minority.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 4:12 PM | PERMALINK

I agree with Frequency!

Besides:

- Yer all a buncha of angry, Bush-hating liberals!
- No wonder you guys can't win elections!
- The economy's giong gangbusters!
- Lefty MSM!

Did I leave anything out? Oh yeah: When in doubt...

It's Clinton's fault!...LEWwwINSKYYY!

Posted by: minion of rove's slightly smarter minion brother on April 3, 2006 at 4:17 PM | PERMALINK

Huh. Fake cn? Else he just conceded the want of manners and the ignorance?

Posted by: brooksfoe on April 3, 2006 at 4:17 PM | PERMALINK

Naw brooks, it's me. I don't believe I've ever claimed to operate with manners and intelligence. I believe that what I've said is: When in Rome...

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 4:20 PM | PERMALINK

Wow, this thread went south in a hurry, didn't it? Jay and conspiracy nut just have that certain je ne sais quoi.

But to cmdicely's impostor, I must say you didn't get it quite right. It should be like this:

Even if, arguendo, one cannot accept that the proposition which Frequency was advancing - which, BTW, is orthogonal to the actual argument being pursued on this thread - is truly viable, one must accept, inter alia, that it is at least plausible.

(Just messin' with you, [real] cmdicely. You the man.)

Posted by: Alek Hidell on April 3, 2006 at 4:30 PM | PERMALINK

It takes a lot of effort to keep making the same mistakes over and over, but you're always up to the challenge.

And thus was born the Bush apologist.

Posted by: ckelly on April 3, 2006 at 4:41 PM | PERMALINK

Jerkoff Jay, I'm outside your age range, and a little too large for your preferred method of sex (child rape). I realize in the crowd you hang with (RNC trolls) that pedophilia is not seen as deviancy, but the rest of us decent God-fearing folks view it as such. Your mental problems in this regard may account for why whackos like you and Nutless can't seem to understand why Republican Senators are, for the most part, outside of the American mainstream. Still waiting for the address.

Posted by: solar on April 3, 2006 at 4:50 PM | PERMALINK

You're a decent God-fearing folk? Are you republican?

I guess being in the majority means you are out of the mainstream? Good to know.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 4:55 PM | PERMALINK

You're not my type, but still want my address?

Curious, solar?

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 4:56 PM | PERMALINK

Jerkoff, (and, as usual, kudos for answering to that name) Republicans are not a majority- a smarter person than you could look that up.

I have no curiosity about what type of person you are- I know you to be an unemployed, uneducated, lardass failure, sponging off your parents while trolling this website and the local playground. The jails and prisons are full of your ilk. I ask for your address merely for the purposes of identification and correction. That you spew nonsense while hiding behind the keyboard of your TRS-80 identifies you as a coward. That you wish to remain anonymous and never encounter anyone who disagrees with you in person (probably not a lot of dissent at your local NAMBLA meeting) means you rightly fear correction. Sucks to see yourself in the mirror, doesn't it?

Posted by: solar on April 3, 2006 at 5:15 PM | PERMALINK

Ah, me and conspiracy nut, two closeted homos blowing each other on a liberal blog.

We couldn't be any more useless if we tried.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 5:19 PM | PERMALINK

solar, you're pretty defensive there. Did I hurt you last time? I will be gentle next time.

Let's see, I post under my real name and you post under an assumed moniker. And I am the one who wishes to remain anonymous and fears those who I disagree with? Is that a one way mirror? You are a pathetic coward.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 5:26 PM | PERMALINK

Jerkoff, since you never had the opportunity to meet your father (or at least were unable to pick him out from the crowd) let me tell you what he would have told you "Jerkoff, snop snivelling and pissing yourself and be a man. Oh and stop bothering the dog, you little pervert."

And Jerkoff, not all of us are unemployed welfare recipients like yourself. You give me your address, I buy a plane ticket, then we can discuss your "manliness". Up to you, pedo-boy.

P.S. Your continued fantasies about having sex with men you haven't met isn't really helping your macho image, you know. Or perhaps you don't... Nonetheless, your party doesn't let you guys get married, were you aware of that?

Posted by: solar on April 3, 2006 at 5:44 PM | PERMALINK

wow, an angry liberal with a macho identity crisis. Scary. I live in Las Vegas, e-mail me when you land. Is solar your first or last name? Or is it a fake name you're hiding behind? I just want to know what to call when I kick your ass.

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 5:52 PM | PERMALINK

Jay, we should really be happy that something has raised solar's ire. I find it odd that terrorists killing off 3000 civilians doesn't do it whereas a conservative does, but whatever.

Posted by: conspiracy nut on April 3, 2006 at 5:56 PM | PERMALINK

McDonald's must pay pretty well for you to buy a plane ticket out here. Who is going to run the fry machine when you're gone?

Posted by: Jay on April 3, 2006 at 5:57 PM | PERMALINK

Nutless and Gutless. A match made in heaven. Why don't you two get a room and let the park restrooms serve their intended purpose?

Now Jerkoff, it's kinda cute, in a sick sort of way, that you segue from fantasies about child rape and having sex with strange men to Rambo fantasies of "kicking ass". While the former is what one could expect from a degenerate loser like Jerkoff, the latter is sadly just repressed memories welling up from all the beatings poor Jerkoff took as a boy.

And Jerkoff, posting as "Jay" is not posting under your "real name". What a dolt.

As to this illiterate sentence fragment: "I just want to know what to call when I kick your ass." The answer, for a thousand is "An ambulance".

P.S. At least the people at Mickie D's have jobs- that certainly one ups you.

Posted by: solar on April 3, 2006 at 6:19 PM | PERMALINK

Give C-nut a break. My balls are in his mouth at the moment so he isn't thinking clearly. Amazingly though he can still type an dcut and paste quite well.

Posted by: nut's buddy on April 3, 2006 at 6:46 PM | PERMALINK

conspiracy nut wrote: "Possessive form is only word in English Language to utilize 2 apostrophes (Ya'lls' or Ya'll's)"

'Twasn't so yesterday and 'tisn't so today.

Would that be ma'am's purse?

Posted by: Joel Rubinstein on April 3, 2006 at 8:36 PM | PERMALINK

FDR?!?!? Reminds me of the old Jiminy Carter comment- if he gave a fireside chat, the fire would go out.

Posted by: minion of rove on April 3, 2006 at 10:01 PM | PERMALINK

cesspool is the proper adjective.

Cesspoolular!!!!!!!

Posted by: english teacher on April 4, 2006 at 7:59 AM | PERMALINK
According to the ADA, Chaffee(R) scores 75%, solidly liberal. Snowe(R) and Collins(R) score 65%, fairly liberal. The only moderate Dem is Nelson (Ben, NE) at 55%. Lieberman scores 80%. (Corzine scored 65 only due to a bunch of missed votes).

So, Repubs have 3 Senators that score liberal, and the Repub scoring runs from 0 to 75, a range of 75. Dems have 1 Senator that scores moderate, and scoring runs from 55 to 100, a range of 45. Hmmm, I wonder which party shows more variety of viewpoint?

The ADA rating doesn't measure "viewpoints".

It measures "voting consistently with the preferences of the ADA".

One would expect, given that the ADA's stated values correspond well to those of the Democratic Party, but are not directly related to those of the Republican Party except that sometimes the core interests of the two parties conflict, that Democrats would more consistently vote with the ADA than Republicans against.

This doesn't suggest anything about how varied the viewpoints of either party's members in Congress are, its simply a reflection of what is being measured by the ADA ratings.

Posted by: cmdicely on April 4, 2006 at 1:27 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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