Are the episodes themselves longer, or is the time allotted to them just four minutes longer?

If it's the latter, then I'm guessing it's a simpler process at work: the ability to sell four extra minutes worth of advertising during a hit show (i.e. 20 minutes of ads attached to 44 minutes of programming instead of only 16 minutes).

Just a thought.

It's the former, blowback from the Tivo offensive.

It's the TiVo thing.

If you want to record two programs that overlap, even if only by 1 minute, the show that you give a higher priority is recorded, the lower priority show is not recorded at all. When 2 shows overlap, you have to go into your TiVo and decide which program you really want. TiVo records aggregated anonymous ratings, so the results of viewer recording choices is significant to the networks and their sponsors.

TiVo actually altered their software to deal with these "knockout" shows that overlap, I hear it gives you a choice to start recording a show even if you missed the first few minutes because another show ran over it. But I haven't seen the software, so I don't know how it works exactly (I have an old Series 1 TiVo, the new feature is only on Series 2 models).

If you have an old TiVo Series 1 like me, you have to go through a convoluted process to record a show starting 5 minutes after the show really starts. You have to record manually, by stop and start time, it's even worse than the old days of programming a VCR. Or you could do what I do, just get a splitter and send 1 cable signal to the TiVo, the other direct to your TV, and watch one of the shows live. I did this the other day when there were two shows on at the same time (for a full hour). I watched the one show live without TiVo while the machine recorded the other show. It was really frustrating, I hadn't watched live TV without a TiVo remote in my hand for at least 5 years. I kept wanting to fast forward past commercials, and it didn't work!

They started doing 40 minute shows before Tivo, probably to garner more commercial time AND to enourage people not to switch channels. But now I think the main reason is Tivo gaming. The few extra commercial minutes and screwing with other channels is just a bonus.

If I miss the first few minutes of Without a Trace I don't have a clue what is going on. I might as well switch it back to ABC and watch Primetime.

A corrollary question is whether execs try to synchronize their commercials to make it pointless to channel surf.

Isn't Tivo just going to up the ante and develop a system that can record two channels at once? Put a five minute pad at the beginning and end of shows and you're covered.

People who have Tivos should already know to set the timer for 1 minute before the show starts and 5 minutes afterwards. It really solves a lot of problems. I've got one of the newer Tivo machines with a dual tuner so I can record 2 shows at once, including two shows that might crossover. It's great. I love it.

No matter what the media execs do to mess with us there is more brain power on this side so they are always going to be messed with & lose

Give Up you reactionary control freaks in the Industrial media

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." – Buckminster Fuller

The problem with my DVR isn't catching that early or late minute. If its scheduled, it catches it anyway and that's the point. The problem is canceling out another recording. I basically gave up on Lost because they were doing that. I live in a big apartment (5 roommates) and there are two programs that are to be recorded at 10pm on Wednesday. So if Lost runs until 10:01, something has to give. Seems VERY stupid for ABC to lose a viewer over this, but that's what has happened. Frankly, in hour house, any tie goes to the channel without screwed up timing.

Here's an answer from Tim Goodman's (The SF Chronicle TV Critic) FAQ

Q: Why do some shows run longer and mess up my TiVo?

Because the television business is highly competitive and all those executives listed above are in fear of being fired pretty much every day. They need to hold viewers. To do that - tricky bastards - some of them run hit shows a minute or three longer, which not only effectively slaps TiVo users who are skipping commercials but it leads viewers seamlessly into a new show, without giving them much time to switch to a competing show. This practice is annoying and the nets have been called on it by critics. For their part, they say the practice is being curtailed. It's not.

You can read more of him on his blog here

He also has commentary on 24 and Lost, and since you're a fan Kevin, you might want to check it out.

Best TV Critic in the country.

It really is the TiVo thing - I've read it several times in various TV columns. It's not so much a backlash against TiVo, however, as it is a way of using the limitations of TiVo to try and force viewers to choose to watch your show instead of one of your competitor's show.

As for the question about why commercials are "synched", making it hard to channel surf, well, that's exactly why it's done. That way you can't get involved in another show during the commerical break. Plus, if there's no point in channel surfing, then you're more likely to sit there through that station's ads than to be watching something else - so their advertisers get their money's worth.

I'm not saying I like or enjoy these tactics, but that is why they're doing it.

I think it's all about TiVo, too. Sure the time games started before TiVo caught on, but not until after DVRs started showing up on the market (including WebTV, which isn't a DVR, but allows some flexible guide-based channel planning).

Things I'm sure we will see soon:
Shows being staggered (the next show starts before the current show ends, so they alternate a few minutes of each for a bit)
Enitrely screwy start times (20 mintes after the hour) This already happens. Also shows that last odder times than 64 minutes.
Lying to the the guide. I actually think this goes on, too, though it's subtle so maybe I'm crazy. But nearly 100% of my recorded shows start with commercials and end with the start of (or a commercial for) another show. Can't be an accident.

I have a Windows Media Center, so I can't vouch for the current TiVo experience. But I started with TiVo and saw pretty much the same stuff, even four years ago.

A more interesting question is how why do american advertisers believe one word from the Nielson ratings, a statistically and operationally obsolete system owned and operated by a foreign company? Why are these crooked ratings considered law?
Power, control, politics? How'd we get here.
Someone write a book, please.

aWol is turning the country into an Orwellian state and you are asking about a TV sit-com?!

On the other hand, here's a strong vote for the "Tivo blowback" theory. It still sounds kind of squirrely to me, but who knows? I've heard weirder stuff than this.

Always bashing Bush!

Back in the early days of Tivo, this happened to a season finale for Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

The last 10 minutes got chopped off because the episode ran longer than usual.

Fans Bitched.

Jos Whedon had the networks re-play the episode the followoing week.

Isn't Tivo just going to up the ante and develop a system that can record two channels at once? Put a five minute pad at the beginning and end of shows and you're covered.

I use a DVR from my cable company, not Tivo, because my DVR is able to record two shows at the same time. God knows why Tivo isn't able to do this -- I'd much prefer the functionality of Tivo to that of my DVR, but the two channels at the same time is the killer ap for me.

Your TiVo suggestion is outdated. The Series 2 model, as updated provides for "snipping" - basically when one show runs over by just a minute, TiVo gives you the option of choosing which show you want to tape for the overlapping minute. For example, say you want to TiVo "Lost" and "Law and Order". Lost ends at 10:02 and Law and Order begins at 10:00.

When you set up TiVo to tape the second of two overlapping shows, a message appears saying:

"These shows overlap, do you want to
A) Continue taping "Lost" until 10:02; or
B) Stop Taping "Lost" on time and Tape "Law & Order" from the beginning.

If you have a season pass for both shows, TiVo automatically snips in favor of the higher priority show.

So TiVo has provided for a way around this.

Personally, I think it's to keep people watching (live)the next show on the same network. If a show ended at, say, 8:55, it gives you 5 minutes to surf around and find something to watch on another network. Ending a show after the hour means that all the other network shows have already begun - so you have to choose to switch to a show in the middle or keep watching the same network show from the start. I always noticed this occurring more frequently with shows that are trying to get a "Lead-in" boost - like Grey's Anatomy when it first started or Invasion this year.

LD beat me to it on both counts. Tivo recently updated their software so you can record two overlapping shows.

If you're 3 or 4 minutes into the hour, you're less likely to flip to a show in progress.

This is not such a new idea. See this from a local paper about the early evening local news starting early to try to hold on to network news viewers: http://www.madison.com/toolbox/index.php?action=printme&ref=archives&storyURL=/archives/read.php?ref=/wsj/2006/05/09/0605090020.php
Also, I remembert Ted Turner's network years ago tinkering with starting shows 5 minutes off the hour and half hour for similar reasons.

It's a stupid concept, violates truth in advertising (in theory if not in law), and should be prohibited by the FCC or Congress, whichever has more cojones.

The "ER" trick predeates TiVO - or at least, it happened before TiVO was commonplace.

That's not to say the TiVO blowback isn't welcomed by advertisers and ad-money-loving executives, but the 64-minute episode was not conceived for that reason.

"God knows why Tivo isn't able to do this -- I'd much prefer the functionality of Tivo to that of my DVR, but the two channels at the same time is the killer ap for me."

Tivo now has a dual tuner box, but you will pay more for service ($19.95/mo ?)

I have a DVR from Time-Warner. You can record two shows at the same time (but you can only watch one of those shows...not a third...at the same time). Or (obviously), you can record one show and watch another. You can click to record from an online schedule, and, if you are like me and record a lot of news broadcasts, you can tweak the start or end times. Playback is just as easy. That's a simpole hookup. If you are handy with splitters and such, you can do other things. If the service gets upgraded and I need a new box, I can swap.

Plus, I have TV-shows- and movies-on-demand.

As for buy vs rent: I long ago learned that technology makes itself obsolete in 2-3 years. Renting is not that much more expensive than replacements. Some things just aren't worth the bother of owning.

So, tell me again why TIVO is so wonderful?

wasn't it more than a few years ago that ted turner tried the same trick with either tbs or tnt, starting shows slightly off the hour in order to keep viewers? i don't buy the tivo theory; there's still a vast majority of people out there who don't have a recorder to take an action to screw the minority who do. i have never had a problem recording back-to-back programming. if anything, i'll get some time lopped the beginning and end of a program but not enuf to really matter.

The Tivo/DVR theory sounds more or less plausible, except that this Wednesday at least my online TV guide showed the episode as ending at 10 pm, so my (dual-tuner) DVR did not record the end of it. Actually, I only missed the last minute because I had already programmed it to always go an extra three minutes for Lost specifically. But this one was four minutes longer... :-(

So is anyone going to tell us what happened in the last minute(s)?

As for ER's starting at 9:59 pm before DVRs even existed, well that doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you consider that a 9-10 pm show would often be at least into the ending credits or into commercials by 9:59 pm and people could just switch over to ER without missing anything interesting.

Maybe someone should look into how the Nielsen ratings are compiled - if they measure how many people are still watching a show in the very last minute, then that ER start at 9:59 pm might make a difference and screw some competitor show.

1. I've had a dual-tuner Tivo for several years. It's the DirecTV model, but there were standalone dual-tuner Tivo units out at or around the same time as well.

2. Program guide times are sometimes good, sometimes bad. I've noticed that DirecTV's guide is more often correct and sync'd up than Dish network's guide was (this was, in fact, one of the 101 reasons for dropping Dish). In the last year, I don't recall missing the start or end of any show, and just about every single show I watch is off the Tivo recording. In fact, ER is one of those turning-into-guilty-pleasure (but used to really genuinely be good) shows I watch, and I haven't missed the opening of that show, ever.

3. Lost going longer than usual? Hmm. Oddly enough, my Tivo has decided in the past two months that it just doesn't like Lost and refuses to record season passes for it. Always says it doesn't have enough disk space for it, which is BS because it records Alias right before without any problems, and the next-day shows without any problems ... or maybe not BS, 'cause I've got to sit down and watch the entire season of 24 at some point to free up a few more hours on the beast. Made me miss two episodes of Lost earlier last month. Probably unrelated, but for the conspiracy theorists out there ...

4. I don't think either explanation is the "true answer". I think the combination of both/all is the real answer. Even without Tivo, you'd have funky start/end times, which either served to keep people watching (a good thing) or pull ratings from competitors (also a good thing) or mess up the folks who recorded things on their VCRs so they could watch them later (also a good thing, although of limited importance because of the small number of such people out there). Adding Tivo to the mix got rid of the last manner (or, rather, moved it to a "if you want to mess with those folks, put out an incorrect guide" instead), but added the additional channel-contention / winner-takes-all issue (old Tivos would never start recording the next hour show two minutes in, and wouldn't record the last hour show if the final two minutes were going to be chopped off by a higher-priority show).

Since all of these are "good" reasons (for the TV exec), it's silly to ask which is the "reason" it is done. I mean, do I eat ice cream because it tastes good or because it cools me off or because it provides some smile time with the kids? Duh, the answer is "all of the above".

It seems pretty clear to me - if the show runs 4 minutes long and TiVo records according to the times in the listing, you lose the last 4 minutes of the show. You don't know how it ends and you're worried, so you watch it live next time. TV guys 1, TiVo users 0.

I believe the worst offender of this is ER. It runs 1 minute longer.

1 minute. At least lost crams a bit into those 4 minutes.

I was very grateful when the TiVo update came.

I have an alternate Tivo theory -- they're trying to punish you for using it by making it unreliable. That way, you will watch the show live.

The problem with Tivo is that it gets its schedule information in advance, and it is sometimes out of date when the show date arrives. I have actually missed one episode of Lost because the time changed after the Tivo schedule update.

So I don't think it has a great deal to do with messing with the next show. I think it is more to do with making you go ahead and watch Lost (with all it high valued ads) live so you don't miss any of it. Broadcast TV execs have been rumbling for a couple of years about Tivo's threat to their ad revenues and frankly, they should. I never watch the damn things any more. You might wonder if they've given any thought to the ill will generated by attacking their audience, however.

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