Good. Finally, some real leadership, to save us from the terrible, terrible terrorists who will kill us all.

And the tax-raising liberals. Save us from them, too.

Will this FINALLY convince the inside-the-Beltway journos that the Bush Administration is inimical to their professional interests?

Because all the evidence that the Bush Administration is inimical to the interests of the majority of Americans certainly hasn't impacted their coverage.

I wish I could convince the Administration that if they looked hard enough, the Patriot Act lets them use flensing tools on reporters.

The only way to get a good press in the future is to remind them now of what we (and they) fought for in the past.

If it requires torturing and killing a few of them, I'm down with that.

gosh. i'm shocked. power given, power used. who on earth coulda thunk it.

just wait till President Hillary decides to investigate World Net Daily for inciting a Final Solution to the Mexican Problem. then we'll see Al, tbrosz, FK and all the other fakers decide they'd rather have a small, constrained government.

too late, asshats. power doesn't go away.

The key question is: will the media stand and fight on this? If so, they still have a chance. If not, they are toast.

My guess? After 6-8 years of being punished and neutered by the Radicals and the Rove machine, the press will barely whimper. No counter-investigation; no fight. Just submission.

Cranky

"[...] Under the law, a phone company receiving a NSL for phone records must provide them and may not divulge to the customer that the records have been given to the government."

Did Qwest receive a NSL? If so, then Ross's claim of "must provide" is murky, as Qwest asked for legal justification and the government declined to give any.

all you journalists better get anonymous prepaid phones while you can.

The Good Corporate Media have nothing to fear. They'll stick to writing fiction. Especially when the bounce gets Bush back above 30%, and they can finally tell everyone how Bush has turned it around, etc.

By the way, did anyone note Rove's use of the phrase "Nice try though." at the AEI Q&A today? Funny - that used to be the tag line of the professonal trolls who post here and at similar liberal sites.

Cranky

I think it's possible these are two different things that are going on. But maybe it's all one grand, subversive excerise.

Does it surprise you that Rove thinks like a troll, Cranky? Who do you think has been sending out the talking points all these years?

He's the prototype troll, hiding under a bridge called Government.

> Does it surprise you that Rove thinks
> like a troll, Cranky? Who do you think
> has been sending out the talking points
> all these years?

I would say it is the other way around: the trolls think like Rove. To me this is fairly strong confirmation of the theory that there are paid trolls who receive centralized training.

Cranky

A cell phone is also a tracking devise while turned on (tower location, etc) whether calls are made or not. All of those historical records can also be tied together, so it’s not just the calls that are made but also where you are and where you have been.

The President said the only people who have to worry are those who have something to worry about, and I believe him. He said only the records of al-Qaeda and their associates are being evaluated. Those who question his policies are clearly linked to the terrorists.

It's time to take the next step and mandate body implant devises for tracking and listening. This will not only solve the terrorist threats but will also solve illegal immigration. If law enforcement does not detect a "good" signal during your scan (which can be made as far away as from space satellites), you will be apprehended and sent to Mexico, Guantanamo, or vanish, depending on the circumstances. Anyone due to receive government entitlements such as social security, and has not disclaimed the benefits, will be deemed to be terrorists or illegals, at the discretion of the arresting agent.

Oversight is for Islamofascit yadda yadda yadda.

Someday, people will look back on the first 6 years of the 21st century and wonder why Americans citizens did nothing to stop the death of their Republic. Of course, they'll be wondering that from somewhere over in Europe or Asia, as the Republic here in America is truly dead and beyond resurrection.

Enjoy your tee vee and Big Macs everyone!

"I would say it is the other way around: the trolls think like Rove. To me this is fairly strong confirmation of the theory that there are paid trolls who receive centralized training.

Cranky"

We agree. In fact, I thought that was what I was saying. I just forgot to mention that Rove was paying them, too.

If it requires torturing and killing a few of them, I'm down with that.
Posted by: jerry on May 15, 2006 at 9:15 PM | PERMALINK

You bring the electrodes, I'll bring the dental tools.

I think we need a Constitutional Amendment: The above rights only apply to those who believe they apply to everyone.

If Clinton had this law to help him, Gore would be our President right now.

I fail to see what the problem here is. Leaking classified or sensitive information is illegal, period. And both the leaker and the receiver are equally culpable, unless the receiver turns in the leaker right away. Really, just how much protection from the law do these people deserve?

There are things to criticize this administration for, no doubt. I don't see how this is one of them. This is just common-sense law enforcement.

Floyd Alvis Cooper

Do you anything about law enforcement in a free society?

That data mining program is already bringing results!

First accomplishment of the Bush administration.

Floyd wrote:

I fail to see what the problem here is. Leaking classified or sensitive information is illegal, period. And both the leaker and the receiver are equally culpable, unless the receiver turns in the leaker right away. Really, just how much protection from the law do these people

I agreed. The fact that the government actions are illegal and unconstitutional is irrelevant. King George is the State and the State is King George. The only legitimate provision in the constitution is the right for hunters to bear arms and blow away little birds while there are shit faced.

But the real problem here is that the very availability of NSLs is the product of bipartisan cravenness in passing (and reenacting) the US PATRIOT Act.

ABC made one slight error: phone companies do not have to comply with an NSL. They may refuse. Only a court can demand any sort of record and expect the private party to comply. Even then, however, a party can fight a court order legally.

Ah, Kevin.

By the way, that was pretty shocking news about Karl Rove's indictment today.

Wh-what? You mean he wasn't indicted? In fact, he's out giving speeches about how the Democrats are so weak?

Imagine that, another Kevin Drum wet dream dried up.

ABC made one slight error: phone companies do not have to comply with an NSL. They may refuse. Only a court can demand any sort of record and expect the private party to comply. Even then, however, a party can fight a court order legally.

Maybe more than just a slight error, IMHO. But if they are just turning over phone records without challenging the NSL, how does anyone really know it's just reporters who are being targeted?
Since they're one of the targets, now it's a big story.

Can someone point me to the post where Kevin Drum said that Karl Rove was going to be indicted today? And if he's not indicted for another day or two, is that some sort of big victory?
We squeezed in two more fundraisers before he was forced out!

Except that all weekend Kevin and others (and I remember who you are) were here crowing about how Rove's indictment was "imminent."

Yet Monday came and went and you don't even hear any rumors in the papers about something so big.

This is why you will continue to lose elections. But I don't expect you to understand.

So the Democrats are going to continue to lose elections because of favorable blog coverage of unsubstantiated rumors about the Rove investigation.

That seems like a strange sort of logic. Must be strange to be one of these right wing Rumpelstiltskins.

Question: Can only the FBI administer these NSL's?

If they compel a phone company to turn over records of calls, then what's to stop Pat Fitzgerald from asking for the private cell phone records of Dick Cheney, Libby, Rove, Novak, Cooper, Miller, and Woodward from the summer of 2003 (assuming he doesn't already have them)? I'm sure the government guys have a very secure and private system, but wouldn't a NSL compel the govt to turn over those phone records? Pat could get the NSA to see who's been calling whom, and then he could listen in to the calls to catch the criminal(s).

Commie liberal lose election terrorist-loving drunk Kennedys!

So, do I get my letter in the mail, or what?
Maybe they can just post it on the blog, a letter for that old fart Matt.

So, the FBI has sunk to resorting to SS/KGB tactics.
Are we feeling safe yet?

I heard about a few tracked calls today. Not much to report except for the guy feeding frozen body parts to alligators in Florida.

Oh, and most of the trolls were checked. Talk about wimps.

Sounds funny but it is the beginning of the end. As more revelations come forth the public will revolt, er, revolt more.

The only thing that will save Republicans in the mid term elections is the removal of the beast like they did with Nixon.

I believe the show is beginning.

Remember, if you need to have a private conversation, do it face to face in the wide open. Otherwise you have been checked.

Now we begin to see the slippery slope of the Patriot Act. Suspension of the bill of rights + classification secrecy is the road to facism.

A good litmus test going forth for candidates: Do you support the complete repeal of the Patriot Act?

It would truly be poetic justice, O.. if Fitzgerald could use the Patriot Act to nail Karl Rove on the leaks.. live by the sword..

We are tracking phone calls because terrorists use phones. Terrorism means the Fourth Amendment of the Bill of Rights is Not Operative.

Terrorists also use guns. Are we going to track guns, too? This would of course render the Second Amendment Not Operative.

Discuss.

Bush was doing this before 9/11/01.

Before there was any Patriot Act. Before there was any "war on terror."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060515/ap_on_re_eu/germany_doctors_strike

Sorry to challenge you on a totally unrelated topic. But how do strikes like these fit with your views on superior European Universal Healthcare....

When you have a government monopoly, you have no options in a strike. Does that make you feel safer?

Bush was doing this before 9/11/01.

Before there was any Patriot Act. Before there was any "war on terror."

Posted by: Maven on May 16, 2006 at 2:46 AM | PERMALINK

Good for him! He has foresight.

If it wasn't for him Al Qaeda might have infiltrated the CIA as well as pulling off 9-11.

:)

P.s. Besides CIA employees have signed releases that allow the agency to tap their phones. No civil rights barrier.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE pay attention to me!!

As one of the Als likes to say, always click the link. McA's dire warning about a physicians' strike in Germany fails to mention that clinics there "are providing emergency and intensive-care services as normal." Ooooh, that awful state-run healthcare system is providing crucial services even during a strike!

Add to this the fact that the doctors are stiking for higher wages (isn't part of McA's schtick that market forces are nearly omniscient), and one might suspect that the end result of this will be . . . better healthcare in Germany.

Middle of the night and I am ruminating. We all know that dirty tricks are KKKarl Rove's M.O. It'd be ironic if Rove was able to use the (if false) story of his imminent indictment (like the diversionary twisting of the Bush military record story that led to Dan Rather's firing and a loss of credibility for the left even though apart from the supposedly forged documents the story was completely true and backed up by primary sources) as a nice one-two punch. Discredit a popular leftwing scoop journalist and then get him to expose his sources (who may have been misled themselves).

I read this on The Tennessee Guerilla Women site:

"Were the sources accurate? Were they basically right but just mistaken on a few of the legal technicalities due to an unfamiliarity with the jargon? Time will tell. If they lied, Jason has promised to disclose their identities."

http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/2006/05/more-on-karl-rove-indictment-story.html

Hmmm

Hey egbert, you ignorant slut. Here is what Kevin said:

[Quote:]An announcement by Fitzgerald is expected to come this week, sources close to the case said. However, the day and time is unknown.

[Kevin:]Hmmm. I vote for Thursday. Give the NSA story a little more time to simmer before we put it on the back burner.

Scrolling down too complicated for you?

[[By the way, that was pretty shocking news about Karl Rove's indictment today.

Wh-what? You mean he wasn't indicted? In fact, he's out giving speeches about how the Democrats are so weak?]]

The grand jury Fitz is working with meets on Wednesdays and Fridays only, just fyi. And not EVERY Wednesday and Friday; only if Fitz (or another prosecutor; this is a regular grand jury with duties beyond Fitz's investigation) needs it to.

Welcome to Soviet America.

Amerikansky Soyuz. Sort of catchy. Perhaps now we can get Bill Frist to lay out the next five-year plan?

Earth to reporters, the next time somebody tells you that we have to give up this freedom or that civil right to fight terrorism remember how you helped sell National Security Letters as a part of the Patriot Act intended to fight terrorism. Remember how you breathlessly wrote "9/11 changes everything."

Civil rights exist to shield us from the concentrated power of government. That our civil rights might incidently make life a little harder for some government official investigating terrorism is of little consequence in the long scheme of things. The Al Qaedas of the world come and go, but the need for us to protect ourselves from government overreach is eternal.

The Al Qaedas of the world come and go, but the need for us to protect ourselves from government overreach is eternal.

Posted by: Ron Byers on May 16, 2006 at 6:51 AM | PERMALINK

Thats an opinion. Sometimes the Al Qaedas of the world become the government. Like the PLO. Or Hamas.

McA, we've got it under control. thanks. you can pay attention to your own country now, as your assistance is not required here.

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There is only one reason to vote for Hilary. So the wingnuts will re-discover the rule of law.
Because you know these little dick motherfuckers will start screaming about unchecked Presidential powers.

I think we should challenge the Neocons and repubs who parrot the "9/11 changed everything" line. Did it change everything? Are we no longer a country that believes in the rule of law? Due process? Free speech? Separation of powers? Life? Liberty? Pursuit of happiness? Is that what they are saying when they say it changed everything, that we no longer believe in any of these principles?

People who leak national security secrets should be prosecuted. Sounds like the FBI is doing some investigative work to find out who the leakers are.

That is good news!

"What are people worried about [with the NSA domestic spying program]? What is the problem?" asked Lott, a former majority leader. "Are you doing something you're not supposed to?"

Exactly the question that should be asked of Bush administration officials when they refuse to discuss or disclose their activities in connection with domestic spying and the interrogation of innocents captured in the Global Whine on Terror.

Back to the Rove thing, a couple of other things which might result if the sources are revealed that would be to Lowblow Rove's liking, future whistleblowing relations to journalists are chilled, and (unless I'm confusing things here) most importantly the case against Rove is thrown out because it is proved that someone close to it him/herself leaked to the press. In effect the leak case against Rove is compromised due to a leak. 'Course if none of this is true and it is determined that this was a malicious act then go ahead and reveal their names.

Just because a law is passed doesn't make it legal. The warrantless search allowances in the Patriot Act are a clear violation of the Fourth Ammendment. Someone should take this case through the courts.

Frequency failed it!

Frequency Kenneth: People who leak national security secrets should be prosecuted.

So, why aren't you demanding that Bush, Rove and Cheney be prosecuted?

Hey McAndrew, a few years ago the doctors, in- cluding the ER doctors and OBs, in Hawaii went on strike because they didn't like the tort laws (get it? Hawaii-- you can't go anywhere else to get medical care). There have been several other physician "strikes" in the U.S. because the doctors didn't like the tort laws. You don't need socialized medicine for the doctors to go on strike.

"Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires---a wiretap requires a court order.

Nothing has changed, by the way.

When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so.

It's important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution."

---President George W. Bush
April 20, 2004

C'mon, clb72...That was something Dubya said on the campaign trail. You don't think he actually meant it, do you?

I'm sure there Dubya gave the equivalent of a signing statement after that speech...Probably had his fingers crossed behind his back the whole time....

You can obtain anybody's phone call records by sending a phone number in an e-mail with credit card number to charge and a few hours later, you got 'em.

Frequency nailed it!

fromer: "Someday, people will look back on the first 6 years of the 21st century and wonder why Americans citizens did nothing to stop the death of their Republic. Of course, they'll be wondering that from somewhere over in Europe or Asia..."

I've been thinking the same thing recently: Americans are not going to write the history of this time. What fascinates me is WHY Americans are so ready to abandon the Constitution and culture that produced it. As a nation we are paralyzed.

My current reflection is that the paralysis is emotional and stems from the culture wars. A battle is being fought on a two dimensional plane: attitude towards religion (positive v negative) & attitude towards strangers (positive v negative). By strangers I mean those who do not conform to the standards of one's in-group. The Religion dimension is complicated because it has been defined as Old Time Christianist religion.

On the right, Bush supporters are positive Old Time religion and negative towards strangers. The right puts up whenever Bushco trammels the Constitution because they have come to regard the Constitution & government as liberal tools designed to suppress Christianity and advance strangers. Illegal domestic spying?? No problemo, chief!

Meanwhile, on the left, people are negative towards Old Time religion and positive towards strangers. They are afraid of fundamentalist Christian religion, and the white, Christian, male power structure associated with Christianism. They regard strangers as potential allies. They want to preserve the government social programs and laws that shore up equality.

And so we are paralyzed. And meanwhile the real problems--global resource depletion (especially oil and water), population pressures on the environment, climate change--aren't going away.

I believe the paralysis may be attributed entirely to the complete failure of leadership that is Bushco. Actually, Bushco is worse than a failure of leadership--Bushco is an active malignancy who is cultivating the destruction of the state. Bushco feeds and grows stronger through divisiveness.

tim wins the drama queen of the day award so far. clb72 a close second and of course advocate is in the hall of fame.

PTate just over took tim and is now comfortably in the lead and possibly a lock to win drama queen of the day award. Congratulations.

Jay: tim wins the drama queen of the day award so far.

Sorry, but Bush has a lock on the drama queen title:

"WMDs! WMDs! WMDs!"

"Imminent Threat of Social Security Collapse!"

"Beware! Little Brown People from Mexico Here to Destroy Us!"

And as usual, Jay can only win Ms. Noncongeniality.

If my quoting something Dubya said about obtaining a warrant before invading the nation's privacy makes me a drama queen, fine, I'd like to get fitted for my tiara.

But maybe, if it doesn't phase you, you're just a bit dead inside.

and of course, Jay is once again Moronic Douchebag of the Day.

advocate, I said you were in the hall of fame, and well deserved so there is no need to try and capture todays award. clb72, you're relatively new here(my observation anyway) and will need some time to reach the hysteria levels already achieved by advocate and PTate.

P.S. don't make any phone calls today.

The Al Qaedas of the world come and go, but the need for us to protect ourselves from government overreach is eternal.

Posted by: Ron Byers on May 16, 2006 at 6:51 AM | PERMALINK

Thats an opinion. Sometimes the Al Qaedas of the world become the government. Like the PLO. Or Hamas.

Posted by: McA

McAsshole must mean that when Al Qaeda or Hamas governs, they must not be resisted.

But leaving him aside, the fact that Americans who call themselves conservative are defending the rape of liberties in our country shows how abject their view of America, aned themselves, is. Really guys, if you are going to acquiesce to being cornholed by the government, move to Saudi Arabia. Or to Iraq, which so many of you prefer to France.

the fact that Americans who call themselves conservative are defending the rape of liberties in our country

'Conservative' is the name of a team. It has no more semantic content than 'Milwaukee Brewers'

And the conservatives would rather sit in the rubble of the Republic, waving their big rubber 'We're #1' fingers, and shout 'Our guys won! than live in mansions and not even finish second, but take turns being #1.

Rape is such an ugly word, shall we say aggressively seduced.

note to fellow conservatives; the lesson plan for tonight's "acquiesce of liberties" class is non-conforming webblogs.

Were any Fox reporters the targets on NSL's ?

Were any administration employees the target of NSL's or were the just targeting those evil, America hating reporters ?

How long before credit card records, medical records, etc are loaded into this "anonymized"
database ?

Remember, the KGB was operating in the national interest too. Scarier and scarier.

Please pay attention to me. I feel more impotent than usual lately, what with my hero a complete failure with 30% approval ratings.

*wimper*

Stephen, who is always a favorite, is now nose to nose with PTate for today's DQ award. Well done Stephen.

P.S. please press type each letter more firmly, the impression being received at HQ is too weak. Thanks for your help.

You can obtain anybody's phone call records by sending a phone number in an e-mail with credit card number to charge and a few hours later, you got 'em.

private citizens can do a lot of things the government can't, and vice versa.

Remember, the KGB was operating in the national interest too. Scarier and scarier.

Several friends of mine who grew up behind the Iron Curtain in Russia, Romania and East Germany have called me in the last week (it's true! you can check the phone records!) to ask, in essence, "so, how do you feel about living in a police state now like the ones we grew up in?" They can't get over the fact that what they thought was done and gone with in their countries in 1989 has now resurfaced in America, the land they always looked to as a beacon of freedom during the time of their oppression.

Gosh, a contender for Drama queen of the day. Oh, PLEASE let it be so!!

Meanwhile, jay just continues to slink along with the pack of losers who continue to enable Bushco's malevolence. On the day when some non-American writes the history of the decline and fall of the American empire, people like jay will figure as the "good Germans."

Hey, I've alluded to Godwin! Will that cinch my title??

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Sorry PTate, yours was a valiant effort but I am afraid Stephens previous post far exceeds everyone elses and really exmplifies this award. In the fine tradition of high standards that Drama Queens aspire to, Stephen time and time again sets the standard.

Ladies and gentlemen, your champion, Stephen.

I wonder if our democracy and liberty can withstand two more years of this kind of despotism.

Kevin Drum prides himself on being a good writer.

I find it surprising that Kevin ended one of his paragrahs by writing, "There. Is. No. Oversight. At. All."

That is cutesy phrasing that high schoolers use.

I think it will powerpuff, I don't think Admenijhaf will have the impact everyone thinks he might.

Not funny, not smart, not laid. Ever.

It sucks to be me.

At least George Bush's approval rating is higher than my success rate with women who aren't the product of gender reassignment. It's not much, but it's something.

Whenever there's a red repetitive post like the one from fsdfsd at 11:20a it's a sure sign there's a posting here the right wing is really, really afraid of. I think what Stefan wrote at 11:18 is what they don't want read.

I can't even find any friends among the circus freaks at Myspace.

Someone please, love me.

What have you got against gender reassignment? We operate a large tent here and everyone is welcome, except conservatives, and religious people and well I guess anybody else who disagree with us. But it's a big tent.

I don't have anything against gender reassignment. When you're in my position, you take what you can get.

Are kidding chrissy? Stephen won an award for that post.

It would help if conservatives, and religious nuts were able to pitch a tent without chemical aid

Chrissy, please speak more clearly while on the phone today. Yesterdays intercept was not ideal and it's important in maintaining your file. Thanks for your help.

The thing I wonder is that if it is true that we are six people away from everyone else in the world (including Kevin Bacon), we can all be tied to someone who is a "terrorist" or putative enemy of the state. Yesterday's Newsweek even had a diagram of a social network that was only six people deep. Coincidence? I think not.

We operate a real big tent here at the GOP. All are welcome--rightwing religious fundamentalists, far rightwing nutjobs, homophobes, self-loathing closet queens(like me and Jay), McCarthyites, and all shades of white.

stefan: "They can't get over the fact that what they thought was done and gone with in their countries in 1989 has now resurfaced in America, the land they always looked to as a beacon of freedom during the time of their oppression."

A friend of mine, a historian, comments that after the Soviet Union collapsed, all the slimey things that had been hidden during the Cold War came out from under their rocks.

I wonder who we can look to as a beacon of freedom during the time of our oppression?

The thing I wonder is that if it is true that we are six people away from everyone else in the world (including Kevin Bacon), we can all be tied to someone who is a "terrorist" or putative enemy of the state.

That's true -- I, for example, am only two degrees of separation away from Bush, Cheney and Rove.

A friend of mine, a historian, comments that after the Soviet Union collapsed, all the slimey things that had been hidden during the Cold War came out from under their rocks.

To amplify what I wrote earlier, my friends who grew up under the Communist regimes all had to live with the knowledge that what they were saying, writing or even thinking could, at any moment, be monitored, that even people they thought of as friends or family might be agents of the state. One friend, whenever she wanted to have a real talk with her mother, had to go into the bathroom and turn on all the taps to defeat any listening devices; others learned never to speak plainly about what they meant, but always to speak in code and allusion.

How long before we have to do the same here?

Gaia: "The thing I wonder is that if it is true that we are six people away from everyone else in the world (including Kevin Bacon), we can all be tied to someone who is a "terrorist" or putative enemy of the state."

I wonder about the 6-degrees of separation thing as well. I, for example, have a friend whom I talk to on the phone. She has a college friend who is a GWB pioneer, and the two of them talk all the time. That friend knows GWB. So that's three. And GWB has connections with the Bin Ladin Family (4) who of course, have connections with Osama bin Ladin (5). So, that's just five connections between me and OBL. Just for example.

I think anyone who thinks about this database will quickly realize that in the absence of any kind of theory, those billions and billions of phone connections mean nothing. And once you have a hard piece of information (the phone number of a terrorist, say) you can get information you need from existing legal databases. So why the secrecy? Why the need?

Jay, the bushies and old man cheney have a secret file on you. It says "he's one of us but unfortunately he's the biggest ass on the internet".

Jay: Ladies and gentlemen, your champion, Stephen.

Jay who oft criticizes "liberal" posters for allegedly merely spewing hatred and insults devolves into same.

Which merely goes to prove what I've always maintained: when conservatives criticize their opponents, they are looking in the mirror and projecting their own failures and character flaws upon others.

It's good to have posters like Jay prove this point over and over and over.

With just a few more hysterical "liberals are dooming our [non-]mission in Iraq" and "liberals are preventing Bush from protecting us from little brown people seeking jobs", he may even reach Bush and Cheney levels of dramaqueenism.

That mirror is really, really clear today, isn't it Jay?

drama queen

dra·ma queen (plural dra·ma queens)

noun

Definition:

melodramatic person: somebody who likes to make a drama out of a situation by acting in an emotional way ( slang )

E.g.,

Bush 43 when speaking on Iraq's WMDs;

Clarence Thomas when addressing criticisms concerning his lack of jurisprudential gravitas;

Trent Lott when addressing criticisms of the domestic spying activities of the Bush 43 administration;

Bush 43 when addressing criticisms of the Dubai ports deal;

Rumsfeld when addressing the criticisms from former generals;

Jay when addressing any issue on which Bush has imploded (in other words, every issue).

stefan: "my friends who grew up under the Communist regimes all had to live with the knowledge that what they were saying, writing or even thinking could, at any moment, be monitored, that even people they thought of as friends or family might be agents of the state"

What is interesting to me, in hindsight, is that the Tate family phone activity is way down over the past several years. We just discontinued our messaging service. Of course, we're using email instead. But we monitor what we say.

So the Tate family has already begun to self censor, not consciously really, but just in response to the trend of the larger society. And I would not consider us suspicious or paranoid by nature.

"Thats an opinion. Sometimes the Al Qaedas of the world become the government. Like the PLO. Or Hamas.

Posted by: McA on May 16, 2006 at 7:05 AM"

Someone no doubt pointed out but Palestine is not exactly a world power, or is this a newsflash to McA. On the other hand it could be argued that our deposing the elected leader of Iran and installing the Shah lead directly to the Iran of today. Why did we do such a thing? He committed the ultimate crime threatening to share the oil wealth with the people. Like Allende et al. Which brings us to today when Newt Gingrich gets on MTP and talks about the evil dictators like in Venezuella. I guess that you are now a evil dictator regardless if you are elected or not.

Immigrants must love despotism. How else to explain the tens of thousands crossing the border all in the hopes of having their liberties taken away.

Jay: Immigrants must love despotism. How else to explain the tens of thousands crossing the border all in the hopes of having their liberties taken away.

Translation: as long as America is just barely more free than Mexico, Nazi Germany, or Saddam's Iraq, everything is okay, because we all know that the highest goal we should aspire to is not the liberty envisioned by the Founding Fathers, but to merely be a little bit better than anyone else.

At least that's Jay's goal.

The rest of us might just have a higher goal in mind.

With the logic and intellectual honesty that Jay demonstrates, we now know why he likes Bush and why conservatives are polling so poorly.

BTW, Jay, if America is so much better than Sweden, or Norway, or Germany, or Britain, or Iraq, or Canada, or France, or Pakistan as conservatives claim, then why aren't we seeing a similar influx of illegal and legal immigrants from those countries?

In fact, why isn't every citizen of those countries applying for citizenship here or trying to illegally enter our country if theirs is so bad?

That's your own [il]logic at work.

But advocate, I thought Saddam's Iraq was a model society. I remember the kids playing and the kites flying in Farenheit 911. Are you telling me that we are more free than they were? Woo Hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nirvana!

Jay: Immigrants must love despotism. How else to explain the tens of thousands crossing the border all in the hopes of having their liberties taken away.

Jay once again demonstrates one-dimensional conservative bloviating and an utter inability to conceive of, much less evaluate, multi-factor circumstances.

Or, he's just plain dishonest.

In either case, he's the poster child for why Bush's conservatism has failed America and why the GOP is full of self-serving, self-centered, truly anti-American criminals, liars, and hypocrites.

Because you live here advocate.

Jay: But advocate, I thought Saddam's Iraq was a model society.

If you thought that, then you are stupid.

If you are claiming that liberals thought that or have said that, you are a liar.

Then again, we know that both of the above are true, so I guess neither is much of a revelation after all.

Are you telling me that we are more free than they were?

There Jay goes again, lying, lying, lying without shame.

A hallmark character trait of conservatives.

Because you live here advocate.

I think they are far more likely avoiding xenophobic, fearmongering, and fearful cowards like you who preach hatred of them, defame them, and want to kill them on sight.

Thank you all so much for this poster child award. I want to thank all of the little people that made this possible, specifically advocate, Stephen, PTate and I am sure I have left some people out and for that I apologize. We will do our best to continue to strip you of your liberties and deny your freedoms in order to fulfill your paranoid fantasies. I am also sure that once we have stripped personal liberties down to nothing and accomplished our goals of redistribution of wealth that immigration form the countries that advocate mentioned will begin to flourish. Again, thank you so much for your support.

(cheney: cue intercept)

Oh, I'll let them walk around a little before I kill them.

Thank you all so much for this poster child award.

Heavy emphasis on "child"

Jay: We will do our best to continue to strip you of your liberties and deny your freedoms in order to fulfill your paranoid fantasies.

I'm fairly certain this is exactly how the German Nazis mocked those who objected to the slow removal of their civil rights in 1930s Germany:

You're paranoid.

We're only trying to protect you.

The little brown Jews really, really, really are your enemy.

-------------

People like Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, or Bush, never succeed without the support of people like Jay.

Jay: Oh, I'll let them walk around a little before I kill them.

Why do you hate America so much that you would allow these enemies of the state even a slight chance of destroying Bushamerica by letting them walk around a little?

Better watch out, any deviation from the Bush no-tolerance for any enemy of conservatism, including little brown people, results in immediate expulsion from his protective influence and invites vicious retribution.

Look to General Shinseki for an exemplar.

Hey, Jay, perhaps you should simply go to another Racists-R-Us or Fascists-R-Us meeting if you are looking for love and personal validation.

Or, like Bush, just ingest, inhale, or inject some drugs.

You are in dire need of some anti-psychotics after all, what with all the delusions you project about alleged liberal statements and beliefs that are really just figments of your imagination.

Immigrants must love despotism. How else to explain the tens of thousands crossing the border all in the hopes of having their liberties taken away.

Maybe many immigrants and would-be immigrants are largely indifferent to despotism since they are coming from unfree regimes and are seeking some improvement in meeting basic, immediate physical needs, like securing reliable food and shelter.

Advocate,
I believe when you said "the Bush no-tolerance for any enemy of conservatism" you meant the Bush no-tolerance for any enemy Bush, as Bush is himself and enemy of conservatism.

cmdicely: Maybe many immigrants and would-be immigrants are largely indifferent to despotism since they are coming from unfree regimes and are seeking some improvement in meeting basic, immediate physical needs, like securing reliable food and shelter.

Way, way, way too complex for Jay.

Steer clear of anything that requires more than one-dimensional thinking or which involves multiple factors or Jay won't understand it.

And remember, in the conservative lexicon . . .

an alleged WMD production facility is an actual WMDs . . .

a defunct nuclear program is an imminent threat . . .

war is peac