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 May 22, 2006
CASH, LIES, AND VIDEOTAPE....Dude. They've got videotape. It's time to resign:
"I plan to go to the floor tonight to vote" is not the right response to this. Nor is the suggestion that searching his office was "an outrageous intrusion of the separation of powers between the executive branch and the congressional branch." It's time to take a pitch for the team and retain at least a tiny shred of dignity. In the immortal words of Jeff Probst, it's time for you to go home. —Kevin Drum 7:20 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (108)Comments
What are you talking about? I enjoy a nice frosty stack of 10,000 bills for dessert from time to time myself. Posted by: plunge on May 22, 2006 at 7:26 PM | PERMALINK"They've got videotape"? It's nice to know that your suggestion that he resign is contingent on his guilt being basically undeniable. I'll make you a deal: He can stay, if Kennedy (slayer of young women, but smart enough not to be taped doing it), and Byrd (Lyncher of black men, but smart enough not to be taped doing it) go. They're both going to keel over soon anyway, so it won't make that much difference to y'all anyway. Posted by: American Hawk on May 22, 2006 at 7:28 PM | PERMALINKThat's exactly what I've been thinking. And maybe the Dems need to lean on him. There's video tape for God's sake. Yes, I've heard that there is video tape of the hookers going into the Watergate and the other hotel, why we haven't heard more, or seen those tapes, is beyond me. But, I'm sorry to say that Rep. Jefferson must go. Posted by: Babba on May 22, 2006 at 7:30 PM | PERMALINKA nominee for the Marion Berry "I was framed" award? Posted by: TheMandarin on May 22, 2006 at 7:32 PM | PERMALINKAmerican Hawk But I'm all for the law being applied vigorously and evenly in ALL cases, to the highest position. "the congressional branch"? A high-school graduate, let alone an actual congresscritter, should know there's no such thing. I suppose he's groping toward "legislative branch", still a losing argument but at least one that doesn't reveal his ignorance. Posted by: Shelby on May 22, 2006 at 7:34 PM | PERMALINKMan, it's a little bit comforting to know that our guys are such amateurish crooks. Don't let the door hit you on th way out! Posted by: enozinho on May 22, 2006 at 7:34 PM | PERMALINKAh, so what if they've got videotape. They never found the WMDs and they never found Osama, and I don't see anybody resigning from the White House. I say, "hang on, ya crook! You've got lotsa company!" Posted by: theorajones on May 22, 2006 at 7:37 PM | PERMALINKLet's get real. William Jefferson has been fighting Bushitler tooth and nail in Congress for years. He's high on their hit list and had to go. If Karl Rove is willing to have his sock puppet make up lies about WMD to get his invasion of Iraq and control of Middle Eastern Oil do you really think he wouldn't be ready to have someone plant cash in a Democrat's freezer? Or fake up an incriminating video? Dirty tricks folks. Let's wait and see if Jefferson can defend himself - he probably wouldn't be fighting this if he didn't think he had a chance. Posted by: Freedom Fighter on May 22, 2006 at 7:37 PM | PERMALINKVery classy move - thank you, Mr. Drum. I feel the same way about DeLay, Frist, Tobin, Taylor, Santorum, Ney, Noe, Bush, Cheney, Abramoff, Franklin, Fleischer, Wolfowtitz, Negroponte, Pearle, Rove, Libby, Poindexter, Rice, etc. . . Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on May 22, 2006 at 7:38 PM | PERMALINKI feel the same way about DeLay, Frist, Tobin, Taylor, Santorum, Ney, Noe, Bush, Cheney, Abramoff, Franklin, Fleischer, Wolfowtitz, Negroponte, Pearle, Rove, Libby, Poindexter, Rice, etc. . You forgot Poland. {{Hey, as long as you're making up random lists, you might as well demand that Poland resigns too. From... something. For some random reason.}} Posted by: American Hawk on May 22, 2006 at 7:40 PM | PERMALINKActually, I think that Jeff Probst's words were "the tribe has spoken." In Jefferson's case, I think it's the videotape has spoken. Posted by: randomosity on May 22, 2006 at 7:40 PM | PERMALINKPoor guy. Back in the old days, they just messed with the fuel injectors on a guy's Cessna, and BAM, you're done. Like Wellstone. Nowadays, they do the whole character-assassination thing. Posted by: Thoristotle on May 22, 2006 at 7:41 PM | PERMALINKDon't let the door hit you in the ass, Jefferson. Posted by: shortstop on May 22, 2006 at 7:44 PM | PERMALINKI've had the "pleasure" of having Bill Jefferson represent me in Congress for several years now. Pick a cliche about crooked pols and Bill Jefferson could be the post child for said cliche. This isn't a Republican hit list, this is a guy who needs to be thrown out on his ass. I was happy to see Pelosi calling for an ethics commitee investigation of him, which is of course more than any Republican has done in regard to their own members under investigation. Posted by: Republocrat on May 22, 2006 at 7:44 PM | PERMALINKI don't think he should resign at all!! Rather, I think he should stand proudly with other congressfolk who are on the path to indictment (like Bob Ney, Tom Delay, Jerry Lewis, Ward Cunningham, etc, etc, etc) and proclaim his innocence, or lack of guilt, or whatever it is that they claim. This is like taking one for the team, but in a more public way. If he were to admit his guilt and step down, it would be *in contrast* to the GOP behavior, and the righties would seize on it to say "Look, he *admits* he's guilty. Our guys don't!" But if he plays it kind of the way they do, he'd draw the attention toward some of those other crooks, and to the hypocritical way they behave when they're clearly guilty. Posted by: Jeffk on May 22, 2006 at 7:45 PM | PERMALINKJeffk, yeah, I was thinking that, too. Good point. Posted by: Babba on May 22, 2006 at 7:49 PM | PERMALINK"It's time to take a pitch for the team..." Neither Jefferson nor Cunningham play for any team I'm on! Posted by: Robert Earle on May 22, 2006 at 7:56 PM | PERMALINKFreedom Fighter writes, Freedom Fighter, I'll suggest you're assuming William Jefferson enjoys the same quality of reality testing and conscience that you have. I think that assumption is very flattering to Mr. Jefferson, and probably wrong. I think Mr. Jefferson is working on the idea that you can fool some of the people all of the time, but not if you 'fess up. Posted by: duvidil on May 22, 2006 at 8:00 PM | PERMALINKI think we've got a lot of Rethuglican trolls here today... Posted by: Freedom Fighter on May 22, 2006 at 8:04 PM | PERMALINKNotice that Kevin says it's time for the Democratic Congre$$man to resign - but a true rightie crank dittohead would have said about a Repiglican that it was a frameup by the liberal media, or a "witchhunt" by Democratic prosecutors, etc. That's part of the differences that separate us... Posted by: Neil' on May 22, 2006 at 8:05 PM | PERMALINKJeffK: Your idea about Jefferson fessing up is cool. If he did that, and apologized to all, what a distinction people would draw between Democrats and Republicans! I hope someone can convince him that he still has a contribution to make to Democratic resurgence by at least handling this gracefully. Posted by: Neil' on May 22, 2006 at 8:07 PM | PERMALINKThe guy should resign and face criminal charges. We are better than Republicans, after all... Posted by: Boorring on May 22, 2006 at 8:14 PM | PERMALINK"I hope someone can convince him that he still has a contribution to make..." Given that he is keeping wads of bribe money in his freezer I think it is safe to assume he doesn't give a flying fuck about anything except himself. He needs to be kicked out, not to be allowed to resign. Posted by: jefff on May 22, 2006 at 8:15 PM | PERMALINKGiven that he is keeping wads of bribe money in his freezer I think it is safe to assume he doesn't give a flying fuck about anything except himself. Liberals who are concerned about America keep their bribe money in the vegetable crisper, next to their organic tomatoes! Posted by: American Hawk on May 22, 2006 at 8:16 PM | PERMALINKThis guy, and people like him are the main reason I strongly support limited government. The less power he has the less he can steal. The less he can steal the less damage he will do and the better off we'll all be. Posted by: Garble on May 22, 2006 at 8:22 PM | PERMALINKThe Rethugs don't give up that easy. Why should we? Here's hoping Jefferson fights to the end.
Cheney 7:46 PM Too bad we couldn't get rid of Nagin too - even Diebold couldn't help enough with that one!Tsk, tsk. Ray Nagin, the millionaire who changed parties to win a New Orleans election and was a Bush campaign contributor, is now under attack while those most culpable for the destruction of New Orleans, George W. Bush and his minions, go unscathed. American Hawk 7:40 PM random lists, you might as well demand that Poland resigns tooPoland should certainly resign from the coalition of the bribed, but I think they've learned their lesson. The other list was merely a partial list of Republican crooks and liars, you know, those guys you most admire for their Christian values American Hawk 7:28 PM if Kennedy (slayer of young women, …and Byrd (Lyncher of black men……and Laura Bush, slayer of a former beau… Nice smear, but Kennedy pled guilty in the Mary Jo Kopechne case and Byrd has apologized for having been a member of the KKK . American Hawk 8:16 PM Liberals who are concerned about America keep their bribe money in the vegetable crisper …Nope, Democrats are concerned that any crooked politician in their party be dealt with immediately and that they resign because they have destroyed the trust of their constituents. Republicans, on the contrary, prefer to defend those Republican congress representatives to the bitter end and beyond. Consider the millions spent on the defense of James Tobin. Posted by: Mike on May 22, 2006 at 8:26 PM | PERMALINK You have a point there. I'm clearly a needle dick. Posted by: American Hawk on May 22, 2006 at 8:45 PM | PERMALINKFreedomFighter The Rethugs don't give up that easy. Why should we? Here's hoping if he is guilty, we sack him. We are better than the Republicans, and we have to set an example. I have to say I am heartened from the principled stand that some have taken against Jefferson, it makes me feel good for my party. Henceforth...fuck you Republicans. Posted by: Boorring on May 22, 2006 at 8:46 PM | PERMALINKVideo tape sounds like a “slam dunk”. But has anyone seen it? Well they have our phone calls, our emails, probably our US Mail. Yeah, they got our US Mail too. It won’t be much longer before they have all our guns. Oops, did I wake someone. Pass this around and wake everyone. It sure seems as if this Jefferson thing, and the Milberg Weiss thing is a desperate attempt to short-circuit the "Republican Culture of Corruption" theme. Doesn't change the fact that: 2. Republicans give lip service to religious wingnuts, to trick them into thinking that the Republicans will give them a theocracy (but when, oh, when, are they actually going to ban abortion? - when are they going to ban sexually explicit advertising? When are they going to ban "dirty dancing" cheeleaders in football? When are they going to force public schoolchildren to recite the 10 commandments? - answer: never, because religious wingnuts are just gullible suckers and will keep voting for the party that claims to represent them, and then screws them over for a buck). 3. Republicans give lip service to Free Market fundamentalists. Republicans SAY they want deregulation. They want to eliminate all regulatory functions of government. Because this makes it easier for them steal, appoint cronies, take bribes, and funnel taxpayer money to their business partners firms; where they get rewarded with cushy "consulting" jobs when they leave office. But when you look at how they happily permit, and encourage monopolies, and play favorites with government money, and borrow like a teenager with her first credit card, you realize that - well, the Free Market Fundamentalists must be gullible cocksuckers too, because the party of Fiscal Responsibility keeps taking their votes and donations, and then fucks them in the behind. 4. Republicans give lip service to tax-cut jihadists. The overwhelming majority of the cuts go to a few folks at the top, who really don't need it, and really don't even notice. The bulk of the guys in the middle? They get screwed with a $300 check, and the bill for $3 Trillion in debt to pay off. Conclusion: Republicans - even when given absolute power, can't be trusted to deliver on anything but just plain pissing off Liberals. If you're an insider, an old college drinking buddy, or if you're born super-wealthy - well, then cheers to you! Because the selective-enforcement and regulation-busting regime is here to open the floodgates to pork, largesse, bribery, stealing, and A New Kleptocracy. Sure - there's a Democrat or two in there, taking advantage of this Culture of Corruption. But the K-Street Project was devised SPECIFICALLY to exclude Democrats. Because Democrats are for more regulation and oversight. Which makes it harder for Republicans to get away with stealing on this massive industrial scale. Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on May 22, 2006 at 8:48 PM | PERMALINKI always keep my lettuce in the refrigerator. It doesn't do well with freezer-burn. Yep, he needs to go, now. (And Hawk--do you actually have evidence that Byrd ever lynched a man? He did disavow the KKK, like Wallace, who was far worse in the first place. As for dead bystanders from young and reckless days, apparently Bushes, Kennedies and thel like get one free pass. I'm not cool with it, but that's the way it is.) Posted by: mac on May 22, 2006 at 8:51 PM | PERMALINK
Parenthetically, why is it that nobody I know personally ever manages to do any of these things? None of them shoot people by accident, none of them auger their planes into the Atlantic, none die skiing into trees, none invade the wrong country by mistake, none have ripped off Target. It sure seems as if this Jefferson thing, and the Milberg Weiss thing is a desperate attempt to short-circuit the "Republican Culture of Corruption" theme. Really? More likely it's just a nuther page in the long book of politicians on both sides of the aisle who are just plain thievin' bastard crooks. If you think the dems have some sort of lock on purity and sanctity, you're smoking the same thing that Mayor Barry was smoking when "that bitch set him up." The whole entire state of Louisiana is as crooked as a piece of driftwood on their disappearing wetlands, and they're mostly democrat. So spare me the holier than thou BS. I'm with Kevin. Do the right thing and pitch him out on his ass. Posted by: Red State Mike on May 22, 2006 at 9:06 PM | PERMALINKThe correct move would be to play this up and make Jefferson a no-excuses example of how the Democratic party treats such scum--a great contrast with how the Republican party treats such scum. Posted by: has407 on May 22, 2006 at 9:09 PM | PERMALINKFreedom Fighter Here's hoping Jefferson fights to the end. Yes, let ol thievin' bastard Jefferson dominate the news cycle for as long as possible. Jefferson 24/7 for weeks. I'm sure the republicans would just hate that. Posted by: Red State Mike on May 22, 2006 at 9:09 PM | PERMALINKIn 1998 Sen. Russ Feingold failed to report 50 separate PAC contributions to his re-election campaign. Each is felony violation of federal campaign statutes punishable by a maximum of 5 years in prison and a $50,000 fine. The center piece of his 1998 campaign was his refusal to accept PAC money (the center piece of his 1992 campaign was term limits). He was in a fight for his political life and he needed the money for a last minute media blitz. I always thought that this was brilliant move on his part. He used the Ken Lay defense. But should he also resign? What about McCain? In the 80's he was one of the original Keating 5. McCain took an out and out cash bribe of $1,000,000. Kevin, Are you going to call for Feingolds and McCains resignations? Posted by: mark on May 22, 2006 at 9:13 PM | PERMALINKI heard Howard Dean talk on this subject a couple of weeks ago. To quote ABC news he "said Rep. William Jefferson, D-La., who is accused of improperly using his influence to direct business toward a favored company, should resign immediately that if indicted." I don't think Dean knew of the video tape at the time. I believe Dean's position on public corruption is somewhat more severe than say Tom Delay or Dennie Hastart's regardless of party. Posted by: Ron Byers on May 22, 2006 at 9:20 PM | PERMALINKParenthetically, why is it that nobody I know personally ever manages to do any of these things? None of them shoot people by accident, none of them auger their planes into the Atlantic, none die skiing into trees, none invade the wrong country by mistake, none have ripped off Target. They just don't have what it takes to rule. A good friend of mine lost his brother in a boating accident in Georgia a few years ago. If I recall correctly he was on a jetski and was hit by a motor boat driven by his friends. Most likely everyone had been drinking. My friends' parents, with whom my family is also very close, didn't press charges, and to my knowledge, no one was prosecuted. My sense from this event was that, in the case of an freak accident like this, and the family of the victim doesn't push for a trial, then the DA will be pretty lenient. Posted by: blank on May 22, 2006 at 10:01 PM | PERMALINKWhy is this a democrat and republican issue? Posted by: brian on May 22, 2006 at 10:22 PM | PERMALINKIn Jefferson's state, they don't resign. They get carried out of the office either feet first, or in shackes. Posted by: buck turgidson on May 22, 2006 at 10:39 PM | PERMALINKFreedom Fighter Here's hoping Jefferson fights to the end. Red State Mike: OK, who are you guys, and what have you done to Freedom Fighter and Red State Mike? Posted by: k on May 22, 2006 at 10:53 PM | PERMALINKHe has to vote, it's already been paid for. Posted by: aaron on May 22, 2006 at 10:58 PM | PERMALINKHe did keep the money in a freezer. Seriously, what a goon. I think the fact that you accepted cash for future considerations from a guy who turned state's evidence, and they found the money, and they have a tape showing you take the cash, and the money was marked, and it was in a tax year for which you didn't claim it--this is Delusion Island if he thinks he can walk away on some weird separation of powers ruse. The separation I am interested in is good and evil; Jefferson from the Public trust. Sad that it was a Democrat who should know better, sadder still that corruption is rampant in Congress. Jefferson stashed $90,000 in the freezer? Shades of The Sporanos ... It's long past time to go, pal. Public corruption such as this is plain odious, pure and simple, regardless of the perp's political party affiliation. Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on May 22, 2006 at 11:25 PM | PERMALINKI think it's kinda sad that so many are giving up on Jefferson when apparently nobody has even seen what's on the tape yet. Hey, this is Bush's FBI we're talkin' about here. "Truthiness" is good enuff for them. As a former prosecutor myself, it's funny how many times I took a police officer's word that "I have it on tape," yet when I took the case to trial, the tape suddenly got "lost" or "recorded over." Bullshit. Or a tape really does exist, but it doesn't show anything incriminating, and might even be exculpatory. Fucking cops. So show me the tape first. Then, if a tape does exist and it does show something incriminating, Jefferson should resign. Posted by: Pocket Rocket on May 22, 2006 at 11:33 PM | PERMALINKLouisiana is a pit of corruption, and every Democrat from there is a DINO - especially the ones in Congress. Good riddance. Posted by: BB on May 22, 2006 at 11:47 PM | PERMALINKShit, yet again you Americans have no sense about what's really important. To hell with bribery. Chase the guys who lie about blow jobs. That's something that affects the country far more deeply. Posted by: Joe canuck on May 23, 2006 at 12:00 AM | PERMALINKPocket Rocket >"...So show me the tape first. Then, if a tape does exist and it does show something incriminating, Jefferson should resign." My view as well SHOW "We the people..." the tape ! "Liars are usually easily discredited; it's the truth-tellers who need to be destroyed." - Joshua Marshall Posted by: daCascadian on May 23, 2006 at 12:19 AM | PERMALINKFolks, just a thought. Do ANY of you recall ANY of the trolls here getting all sorrowful and apologetic about REPUBLICAN Representative Duke Cunningham? I don't. They generally just started trotting out alleged Clinton crimes as if they had the half life of spent uranium. Remember. No mercy. Posted by: bobbyp on May 23, 2006 at 12:52 AM | PERMALINKHey bobbyp, let's you and me listen to the cricket symphony while we wait for Red State Mike, American Hawk, Tbrosz (yoo hoo), or anyone similarly ilked to comment on Cunningham and his '3 degrees of separation' companions. Anyone know where I can get a scorecard showing the number of congressional or senior admin. indictments by party by year over time? Maybe with a nice red and blue line graph and a fine Pinot Noir (I'm from Oregon) Posted by: MaryCh on May 23, 2006 at 1:24 AM | PERMALINKAnyone know where I can get a scorecard showing the number of congressional or senior admin. indictments by party by year over time? The three dockets combined include Jefferson, Jefferson's briber, and about 50 Republicans. Posted by: blank on May 23, 2006 at 1:57 AM | PERMALINKNext up: Mollohan of West Virginia. He resigned his seat on the ethics committee. As soon as the FBI finishes poring over his records, he'll be gone. Posted by: republicrat on May 23, 2006 at 2:38 AM | PERMALINKThat's just a prediction. Legally, he's innocent until they prove him guilty. maybe he got all that money from clever speculation, as did Hillary Clinton. Posted by: republicrat on May 23, 2006 at 2:40 AM | PERMALINKSpeaking as someone else who is in Bill Jefferson's district, and as someone who comes into contact with him on a semi-regular basis, I'm neither crying any tears over his current situation nor am I surprised that he is knee deep in crap. The guy is the worst kind of politician and it would be nice to see Pelosi, who I also bear no great goodwill towards, push the ethics commitee thing as hard as she can. Make the case that there will always be politicians who abuse their office for personal gain but Democrats are willing to call a problem for what it is and deal with it. It almost isn't worth mentioning but Jefferson's alleged crimes pale in scope to alleged Republican trangressions and Jefferson no way takes Republicans off the hook. The corruption scale is clearly dipping heavily to the right and Democrats need to pound that point hard. Posted by: Nathan on May 23, 2006 at 4:53 AM | PERMALINKFolks, just a thought. Do ANY of you recall ANY of the trolls here getting all sorrowful and apologetic about REPUBLICAN Representative Duke Cunningham? Who's being sorrowful and apologetic? More like, "Jefferson's a crook. Out! Next!" That is precisely the correct response. Posted by: shortstop on May 23, 2006 at 6:54 AM | PERMALINKthese poor pathetic 29%ers just can't let it go about Ted Kennedy, can they? I mean goddamn. Laura Bush killed a man more recently than Kennedy did, american chickenhawk. Posted by: gus on May 23, 2006 at 7:14 AM | PERMALINKNow's the time for him to talk about what a good Christian he is, and that's why he's being attacked. Right, tom delay? Posted by: merlallen on May 23, 2006 at 7:18 AM | PERMALINKToo funny. You're guy is caught red-handed, on tape. He's guilty as sin, and most of you know it. But all you can do is spin, spin, spin about how the republicans suck, and they're crooked, and what about Tom Delay, Laura Bush, etc, etc, etc. I counted at least 20 posts of this type in this thread. You can't stay on topic to save your lives. You guys are pathetic. Posted by: sportsfan79 on May 23, 2006 at 9:01 AM | PERMALINKBut I'm all for the law being applied vigorously and evenly in ALL cases, to the highest position. Word. Posted by: E. Henry Thripshaw on May 23, 2006 at 9:28 AM | PERMALINKWhy aren't you troubled by the warrantless search, Kevin? Are constitutional protections only for those who turn out to be innocent or who you think to be guilty at the time? sportsfan79: You guys are pathetic. Funny, why are Republicans spinning for Jefferson by questioning the warrantless search of congressional offices? Talk about pathetic. Unless you think the GOP has all defected to the Democratic Party! LOL. Difference between the GOP and the Dems: the Dems won't pass special rules to protect Jefferson, like the GOP did with DeLay - the Dems aren't running around insisting that this is a partisan attack on Jefferson, like the GOP did with DeLay. Better luck next time, though, with your attempts to downplay wholesale GOP corruption by pointing to a couple of Democratic congressmen. "The guy should resign and face criminal charges. We are better than Republicans, after all..." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA etc. Millions of comedians out of work... Here you go, Cheney, since you apparently can't read (or think) for yourself . . . CNN: In concerns echoed by the Republican House and Senate leaders, the Louisiana Democrat blasted an apparently unprecedented weekend search of his office by FBI agents as an "outrageous intrusion into the separation of powers between the executive branch and the congressional branch." Search concerns GOP leaders Both Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House Speaker Dennis Hastert said they were "very concerned" about the search, which was conducted under a warrant issued by a federal judge. Hastert issued a sharply worded statement Monday evening saying he planned to "seek a means to restore the delicate balance of power among the branches of government." He did not elaborate on what measures he might propose. "Insofar as I am aware, since the founding of our republic 219 years ago, the Justice Department has never found it necessary to do what it did Saturday night, crossing this separation of powers line in order to successfully prosecute corruption by members of Congress," Hastert said. "Nothing I have learned in the last 48 hours leads me to believe that there was any necessity to change the precedent established over those 219 years." Posted by: Advocate for God on May 23, 2006 at 9:42 AM | PERMALINKCheney: Why don't you just admit it - if he's guilty of bribery, he should resign? First, because for us that he should resign goes without saying. Unlike the GOP, no one is running around calling press conferences (other than Jefferson himself) saying it's a political witchhunt. Numerous congressmen came to DeLay's defense without even knowning the evidence. We'll let the justice system decide. Second, the demands from the GOP (and Kevin) are that he resign now, not when he's convicted, the standard that the GOP demanded for DeLay, until DeLay saw the writing on the wall and fell on his sword. Why do you think there should be a different standard for Jefferson than DeLay is what I'm wondering! I say good riddance to both. You should apply the same standards you insist for Jefferson to Burns and a host of other GOP congress members for whom the evidence of corruption and illegality is as good or nearly as good, but I haven't heard a peep out of you or the GOP about these individuals, other than to insist that the investigation of all GOP members is driven by partisanship on the Left. Posted by: Advocate for God on May 23, 2006 at 9:49 AM | PERMALINKI agree that Jefferson should resign, at the very least, Nancy Pelosi should urge the House to open ethics investigations, in return for the GOP agreeing to do the same for their crooks! The interesting thing is that politicians from both sides of the aisle are complaining about the FBI raiding the office of a congressman. Could it be that Jefferson isn't the only one with skeletons in his freezer? The issue here is the politicization of the FBI and of law enforcement in general. The FBI has never searched the office of a congressman or senator in their history. Why now? Under whose orders did the FBI search Jefferson's office? Posted by: MeLoseBrain? on May 23, 2006 at 9:54 AM | PERMALINKAfG: What makes me curious is who the hell pushed it? It CAN'T be Republican appointees - I simply don't believe they are all so stupid as to even consider opening this can of worms. Was it a genuine law-and-order type pushing the envelope? A sleeper with a history of donating to Democratic candidates who managed to convince someone this was a safe precedent to breach, given the target is a Democratic Congressperson? If it stands, there won't be any excuse to NOT do the same to Republicans in Congress. Nailing a corrupt Democratic Congressman - highly worthwhile. I guess the important question will be how many investigations will be announced before November. Posted by: kenga on May 23, 2006 at 9:56 AM | PERMALINKYou guys are pathetic. Reading comprehension issues, sportsfan? Otherwise, you would learn that most posters hope that Jefferson resign. However, we do find the hypocrisy of the right to be telling. With you all calling for Jefferson's head, yet not a peep about your legions (not singular) of crooks. Where have I seen your outrage about Duke Cunningham? Tommy Noe? Tom DeLay? Jack Abramoff? Porter Goss? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If video emerges of the infamous "poker parties" (Poker? I didn't even know her!), I'll expect that you'll return here and register your outrage and express your sincere hope that those involved will resign. I won't be holding my breath, though. Posted by: MeLoseBrain? on May 23, 2006 at 10:01 AM | PERMALINK "like the GOP did with DeLay." Thats because it WAS/IS politicaly motivated against DeLay. (My belief anyway) We will see after all is said and done. I've said it before and I'll continue to say it. It's not repubs OR dems that are corrupt in congress. It's Congress that's corrupt with the exception of a few. Those few usually get charged with the generic "Ethics Violations" and chased out. "Insofar as I am aware, since the founding of our republic 219 years ago, the Justice Department has never found it necessary to do what it did Saturday night, crossing this separation of powers line in order to successfully prosecute corruption by members of Congress," Hastert said. "Nothing I have learned in the last 48 hours leads me to believe that there was any necessity to change the precedent established over those 219 years." That's not a complaint, Cheney? If not, it sounds like an awfully strongly worded "want to know why". I never said they were defending Jefferson, I guess you share reading comprehension issues with sportsfan. I would never even infer that they would defend Jefferson. Unlike their defense of DeLay, of Noe, and, initially anyway, of Cunningham. My point was (as I stated) maybe they have skeletons in their freezer. Posted by: MeLoseBrain? on May 23, 2006 at 10:11 AM | PERMALINKIt's not shocking that someone so malnourished in the moral fibre department has failed to resign. By failing to do so months ago, Jefferson has shown continuous disdain for his office, his constituents and the country. More to the point, however, why have Dems not shunned him? We can't make hay with Repub corruption when one of our own, who is proven to have taken bribes, is not roundly denounced and censured by the party and the House Dems (if not expelled by the entire House). THis is not a case of innocent until proven guilty--that's for criminal law. Both on gounds of principle and prudent politics, Jefferson should be thrown out. Only then can Dems demonstrate that they are able to clean up the Republican mess. Otherwise, Dems are of a kind with Republicans in the shrugging at corruption department. Perhaps there is less Dem corruption (if for no other reason than Dems are out of power), but if they don't pillory Jefferson this will play right into the "they all do it" meme that Repubs are trumpeting. Posted by: JRP on May 23, 2006 at 10:13 AM | PERMALINKwill play right into the "they all do it" meme that Repubs are trumpeting. It shouldn't be just repubs. If you think the dems have some sort of lock on purity and sanctity, you're smoking the same thing that Mayor Barry was smoking when "that bitch set him up." If you think anyone is impressed with this straw man -- borrowed it from tbrosz, did you? -- then you're smoking the same thing. Individual Democrats may be corrupt. The Republican Party is corrupt. And you carry water for it, Mike. Nice. Posted by: Gregory on May 23, 2006 at 10:23 AM | PERMALINK...and, as if it needs saying, Jefferson needs to go. Pronto! Posted by: Gregory on May 23, 2006 at 10:25 AM | PERMALINKAre any of you old enough to remember Abscam? The FBI caught Cong. Ozzie Meyers on videotape taking a bribe in a sting operation. The most memorable moment was Cong. Meyers saying, "Money talks and bullshit walks." Cong. Meyers did not leave the Congress voluntarily, by the way: he was expelled. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. Posted by: DBL on May 23, 2006 at 10:25 AM | PERMALINKI can't remember if Cong. Meyers was a Democrat or Republican. It doesn't really matter; he was from New Jersey, which is, after Louisiana, the most corrupt state in the nation, and has been for a long time. Posted by: DBL on May 23, 2006 at 10:38 AM | PERMALINKDo you really think that "most posters hope that Jefferson resign"? Welll, I don't see where I offered an opinion on whether "most posters hope that Jefferson resign," but luckily I know you well enough, Chuckles, to attribute your question to flagrant dishonesty rather than stupidity. Posted by: Gregory on May 23, 2006 at 10:41 AM | PERMALINKCheney: What makes me curious is who the hell pushed it? It CAN'T be Republican appointees - I simply don't believe they are all so stupid as to even consider opening this can of worms. Was it a genuine law-and-order type pushing the envelope? A sleeper with a history of donating to Democratic candidates who managed to convince someone this was a safe precedent to breach, given the target is a Democratic Congressperson? I think it's fairly clear what has happened. The GOP Congress opened Pandora's box in order to promote their view of a strong Executive, without considering the consequences, so they could characterize opposition to it as treason and pro-terrorist for partisan political purposes, and to erode the rights of the accused which they have long abhored (except when they are the accused, of course) and are just now realizing that Bush (and perhaps no executive, but clearly Bush) can't be trusted to restrain himself in the use of that power, something the rest of us already knew. They are waking up and smelling the coffee and are scared sh*tless what is going to happen if a Democratic president gets the same powers. Posted by: Advocate for God on May 23, 2006 at 10:42 AM | PERMALINKDBL: I can't remember . . . We heard that from Reagan and North a lot too. It's a popular phrase among conservatives. It's like you all suffer from self-inflicted early-onset Alzheimers. Posted by: Advocate for God on May 23, 2006 at 10:44 AM | PERMALINKHey, Nagin got his job back. This guy only has to fool Democrats, right? A few Bushitler comments and all will be forgiven. Posted by: McA on May 23, 2006 at 10:51 AM | PERMALINKMcAnus: A few Bushitler comments and all will be forgiven. Put up better candidates. Ooooooh, that's gotta hurt, eh, McA? Really sucks when your puke comes back at ya. Now, wipe your face off and try again. Posted by: Advocate for God on May 23, 2006 at 11:05 AM | PERMALINKYa know, I hear you complaining about the corruption in DC (although you refuse to acknowledge that it's not just repubs) but yet you want to have the gov't re-distribute the wealth. Considering money is the great corrupter, what do ya think is gonna happen if the gov't holds ALL the money? I don't wanna be here for that one. I'll wait till it comes out on PPV. That is gonna be one scarrrry movie. Posted by: Lurker42 on May 23, 2006 at 11:18 AM | PERMALINKI don't think Jefferson should be allowed to resign. I am old enough to recall when Congress investigated and expelled Adam Clayton Powell. (I also recall when he won reelection later, but that is irrelevant.) Pelosi needs to verify the case against Jefferson, and if it is sufficiently strong, then she should move to have him expelled from Congress. The Republican leadership would have to go along or be accused of "playing politics." Expelling the crooked Democrat would set a clear difference between Democrats who cleaned their own house and Republicans who grew, encouraged and protected their crooks-in-Congress. Posted by: Rick B on May 23, 2006 at 11:28 AM | PERMALINKLurker42: . . . although you refuse to acknowledge that it's not just repubs . . . More nonsensical drivel. Liberals never denied that there are corrupt Dems. Liberals never refused to acknowledge this. Conservatives, on the other hand, insist that the corruption is equal, despite no evidence to back that up and plenty of evidence to the contrary. A dozen or more GOPers and their allies being investigated, or indicted, or convicted. A couple of Dems. And still conservatives insist that as many Dems are implicated as GOPers. Considering money is the great corrupter, what do ya think is gonna happen if the gov't holds ALL the money? Far more likely with the GOP. No one on the Left has ever proposed the government hold all the money or embraced governmental policies, including tax rates, that would accomplish this alleged goal. I don't wanna be here for that one. You can leave then and assuredly not be missed. America, love it or leave it. I LOVE IT! And America too! Why don't you? Posted by: Advocate for God on May 23, 2006 at 11:29 AM | PERMALINKRick B: Expelling the crooked Democrat would set a clear difference between Democrats who cleaned their own house and Republicans who grew, encouraged and protected their crooks-in-Congress. Amen. When will conservatives join this chorus vis a vis Burns, et al? Posted by: Advocate for God on May 23, 2006 at 11:33 AM | PERMALINKIs this the same FBI that had Richard Jewell and Wen Ho Lee dead to rights? I thought so. Posted by: Pocket Rocket on May 23, 2006 at 11:36 AM | PERMALINKThe whole "it's equal" defense is just so silly I can't believe people buy it. From a simple paractial point of view by their being majorities in both houses of Congress and with those majorities coming chairmanships to steer more political goodies the way they want to, it stands to reason that as long as the current status quo is in effect, the majority of potentially criminal activity & investigations are going to be directed at Republicans. I'm always thinking about that old adage of absolute power when I look at the news lately. Posted by: Nathan on May 23, 2006 at 11:39 AM | PERMALINKFar more likely with the GOP. No one on the Left has ever proposed the government hold all the money or embraced governmental policies, including tax rates, that would accomplish this alleged goal. How are you going to "Re-distribute the wealth" like the liberals want if the gov't doesn't hold the money? They gotta hold the wealth before they can re-distribute it. That doesn't even sound remotely like a GOP policy. America, love it or leave it. Oh I do AFG, I do. That is why I vote repub most of the time. Posted by: Lurker42 on May 23, 2006 at 11:48 AM | PERMALINKFortunately the Democrats have been very quick to come together and condemn Rep. Jefferson with one clear voice.... Oh, wait, I don't think I've seen that yet. Maybe soon. I vacilate between two views of major-party corruption I would describe as, "Not a dime's worth of difference" and "Anyone's better than these scoundrels." ("These scoundrels" at present are the party that controls the three branches of government, although in the early '90's it was the other scoundrels.) Right now I'm very sick of the GOP corruption machine and very much in the mood to get some new scoundrels in place. My long-term view tends more toward the notion that the major parties are partners in corruption, though, which is why I vote Libertarian. If they can't find the courage to condemn Rep. Jefferson and exclude him from their caucus, Democrats will only reinforce my long-term cynicism. Posted by: Equal Opportunity Cynic on May 23, 2006 at 12:05 PM | PERMALINKRick B If they expell Jefferson what do they do when he's re-elected by typical Dem voters? Will they also expell Alcee Hastings, who's been impeached as a federal judge for taking bribes then elected to Congress? Will they expell the rest of the shakedown artists, from Mollohan to the NJ delegation? I knew when you guys started this "culture of corruption" meme it would come back to bite you on the butt. Posted by: miniion of rove on May 23, 2006 at 12:17 PM | PERMALINKSure, Jefferson should resign. Just like DeLay and Cunningham did after their offices were searched by the FBI. What, they didn't resign? And their offices weren't searched? Hmmmm, maybe I'm not so sure.... Posted by: wally on May 23, 2006 at 12:19 PM | PERMALINKI note that even the Republicans are upset that the agents searched Jefferson's office, setting a precedent and breaking a tradition that goes back quite far. I also note that the madministration that did this is Republican, but the congresscritters see the writing on the wall, and don't want this done to them. I wonder, in fact, why it wasn't, to Cunningham and Delay and Ney? "Double standard? Who, us?" say the Republicans.
Lurker42: How are you going to "Re-distribute the wealth" like the liberals want if the gov't doesn't hold the money? You conveniently leave out the "all" which is typical of conservatives - pretend that the statement being criticized said something other than what it actually said or pretend that the critic said something different than what they actually did. Sorta like Bush claiming that he never said the threat from Saddam was imminent on the basis he never used that exact word to describe Saddam's then-current level of threat, ignoring the concept of synonymous words and phrases. Lurker42: That is why I vote repub most of the time. Proof only that you love the GOP, not that you love America. In fact, very good evidence that you don't love America, since the vast majority of Republicans put their own interests, particularly party interests, above the national interest. To wit, trying to cut our troops hazard pay in order to protect tax cuts for their big contributors. Lurker42: That doesn't even sound remotely like a GOP policy. What would a GOP policy look like? Spend $200 billion plus and sacrifice 2000 plus soldiers to look for phantom WMDs and add not one iota of protection to America's national security. Posted by: Advocate for God on May 23, 2006 at 12:28 PM | PERMALINKyou refuse to acknowledge that it's not just repubs) but yet you want to have the gov't re-distribute the wealth Wow, Lurker packs two bogus straw men into one sentence! Nice going, Lurker! But if tbrosz were here, I'm sure he could nail the triple axel. Posted by: Gregory on May 23, 2006 at 12:38 PM | PERMALINKIt must be a setup to make my Republicans look bad.All the dems will hang this guy and say,See what good dems do they throw out the bad ones while the right fights and lies till the end. Posted by: now on May 23, 2006 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINKPOT Black, black pot, must call kettle black.Karl what do we do? Posted by: then on May 23, 2006 at 1:05 PM | PERMALINKFrom what I understand this Congressman has not been indicted, so I am forced to say that until he is indicted it is more than a little inappropriate to say he should have resigned already. If the House ethics committee put forward a recommendation to expel him and that was passed then he should be gone before indictment but not before then. This is as much a respect for the rule of law issue as it is a corruption issue. Now, given what is out there do I personally think this man is guilty of the allegations made, yep, pretty much. Do I think that belief has any business on its own being sufficient to force this man's resignation? Nope. I would want to see an indictment and/or the House expelling the man on its own authority, otherwise it seems that people are again presuming guilt here, and while there may well be a good reason to do so that does not change the fact that the more one becomes accustomed to employing that mindset the more one will continue to do so. Understand, I am not defending this man at all, I am defending the idea that innocent until proven guilty still has some meaning. I also do not believe it is appropriate for any elected official to be compelled to resign for allegations of corruption prior to indictment. That does not prevent the elected official from resigning on their own, I am solely referring to compelled resignation and/or pressure from the party leadership to force resignation. So far this has been yet another trial by media from what I can see, and I am not a big fan of such. Wouldn't you rather he stuffed it away in $10,000 increments rather than excrements? Yecch, who'd want that shit in his freezer? Posted by: Alejandro Pinochet Gonzalez deBrie on May 23, 2006 at 2:06 PM | PERMALINKMalvo: Sniper plan was to kill 6 a day for a month What a piker. Bush's plan in Iraq works out to many, many more per day and for many many months. Posted by: Advocate for God on May 23, 2006 at 2:48 PM | PERMALINKI agree with Scotian. Jefferson should benefit from the presumption of innocence. The House ethics committee ought to conduct an investigation and if they find he's guilty of accepting a bribe, then the Congress ought to expel him. You can't in any way blame the Democratic Party for the crimes that Jefferson appears to have committed. There have always been crooked politicians who take bribes, and there always will be. Do you remember what Will Rogers said when asked if he voted? He said he never voted, because "that just encourages them." Posted by: DBL on May 23, 2006 at 3:46 PM | PERMALINKUnderstand, I am not defending this man at all, I am defending the idea that innocent until proven guilty still has some meaning. I also do not believe it is appropriate for any elected official to be compelled to resign for allegations of corruption prior to indictment. While I generally agree with you, innocent until proven guilty is a standard in a criminal court. I would apply a different standard here, since asking him to resign is well short of sending him to jail. If you have lost confidence in his ability to carry out his duties due to your reasonable (or whatever the appropriate word is) belief, you should ask for him to resign. In short, don't apply a criminal court standard to a non-criminal court situation. Posted by: Red State Mike on May 23, 2006 at 5:18 PM | PERMALINKThe fact that a tape exists is prima facie evidence of entrapment. Those dastardly fiends! Posted by: Michael7843853 G-O in 08! on May 23, 2006 at 5:26 PM | PERMALINKMichael - Entrapment was the defense in Abscam 25 years ago - where the Congressmen were videotaped accepting bribes in a sting operation conducted by the FBI - i.e., there was no actual bribe by a corrupt businessman seeking favors, just a pretend bribe by a FBI agent (or informant) pretending to be a corrupt businessman seeking favors - and the courts didn't buy the defense. Jefferson is SOOL, IMHO. Posted by: DBL on May 23, 2006 at 9:20 PM | PERMALINKI will believe the feds are serious when they put a wire on some chick and approach Denny Hastert and Bill Frist. Why oh why are the "offenders" of public decency and morals always black? Listen, give any of that bunch of "pigs" in tygerll Start a blog, get a digital camera with video capability ,and start trolling for crooks. You'll be famous. Posted by: Red State Mike on May 23, 2006 at 9:43 PM | PERMALINKmap RSM: Note though my standard of innocent until proven guilty concerning an elected official stepping down was only that they be indicted, not actually proven guilty for exactly the reason you gave regarding having confidence in the elected official in question. Posted by: Scotian on May 24, 2006 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINK | |
