Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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June 4, 2006

WHEN THERE IS NO PLAN B....The Washington Post ran a provocative item today from a 42-year-old happily-married mother of two, identified only as "Dana L.," who became pregnant unexpectedly. She had tried to prevent the pregnancy by taking Plan B emergency contraception, but her doctor refused to write her a prescription.

Ultimately, Dana had an abortion she didn't want. With some justification, she's blaming the "conservative politics of the Bush administration."

My anger propelled me to get to the bottom of the story. It turns out that in December 2003, an FDA advisory committee, whose suggestions the agency usually follows, recommended that the drug be made available over the counter, or without a prescription. Nonetheless, in May 2004, the FDA top brass overruled the advisory panel and gave the thumbs-down to over-the-counter sales of Plan B, requesting more data on how girls younger than 16 could use it safely without a doctor's supervision.

Apparently, one of the concerns is that ready availability of Plan B could lead teenage girls to have premarital sex. Yet this concern -- valid or not -- wound up penalizing an over-the-hill married woman for having sex with her husband. Talk about the law of unintended consequences.

Actually, it's even worse than Dana characterized it.

About two years ago, an FDA advisory panel voted 23 to 4 to approve over-the-counter access to Plan B emergency contraception. One FDA panel member called it the "safest drug that we have seen brought before us." The scientific evidence was overwhelming that access to Plan B would curtail abortion and unwanted pregnancies. This was a no-brainer -- right up until the administration blocked the medication anyway, under pressure from its far-right base.

Ever since, the Bush gang has struggled to come up with a coherent explanation for the decision. Initially, then-Commissioner Lester Crawford cited FDA concerns about selling the drug to younger teens as a reason to keep Plan B off shelves. Then we learned Crawford was lying and the FDA had no such concerns.

A month later, the FDA released an internal memo showing that one high-ranking FDA official was sincerely worried about adolescents forming "sex-based cults centered around the use of Plan B." Seriously.

The evidence, which may not be relevant to the Bush administration, shows no link between access to Plan B and risky sexual behavior, worse yet "sex-based cults." How Bush-appointed "scientists" come up with such nonsense is a mystery.

If the administration said, "We're morally opposed to emergency contraception," we could at least have a reasonable debate. If the administration said, "We could go for this, but the Dobson crowd would kill us," we would at least be facing political realities.

Instead, the Bush gang insists on a bizarre approach, in which they claim to base decisions like these on science, but ignore their own experts, hide embarrassing facts, and then lie about it. In the case of Plan B, the result is more unwanted pregnancies and more abortions.

For reasons that are unclear, the GOP's religious right base seems to think this is a great idea. Maybe more of them should have a chat with "Dana L."

Steve Benen 2:52 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (70)

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Comments

It wouldn't matter. This is an issue that has nothing to do with logic or with reason. It's all emotion and faith, which means that any chats with Dana would be a complete waste of time. The approval of this will have to wait for another administration, since the Bush administration simply cannot afford to back down on this, given that their base is already pissed off at them.

Posted by: PaulB on June 4, 2006 at 2:57 PM | PERMALINK

With the Republicans it's all about sex, or, rather, about controlling other people's sexual behavior.

Posted by: lib on June 4, 2006 at 2:58 PM | PERMALINK

sex-based cults

a-heh- heh

Posted by: david broder on June 4, 2006 at 2:58 PM | PERMALINK

one high-ranking FDA official was sincerely worried about adolescents forming "sex-based cults centered around the use of Plan B."

Stupider than a Baptist school-board member in Oklahoma. Jeez.

But to address more practical considerations, why in God's name would anyone go out of their way to take a hefty dose of hormones anyway, unless the alternative was much worse?- as I understand it, Plan B is just a larger dose of regular BCPs, and I long ago learned the hard way that even following the usual instruction to take a double dose after missing one day can produce some extremely unpleasant consequences. Unless kids are planning sex cults with a ritualized vomiting component, this FDA person should be removed from his/her job & kept away from sharp objects.

Posted by: latts on June 4, 2006 at 3:02 PM | PERMALINK

Well...teenagers DID form sex cults around all other methods of birthcontrol when they became widely available. They even formed "sex cults" before the various means of birthcontrol became widely available. These "sex cults" were called "being a teenager".

See, just like in the 1900s (and before), the 10s, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, etc, etc, etc, teenagers have had sex. The dirty secret is that even during the oh-so-worshiped by the nutbag rightwing 1950s teenagers were having sex. They have ALWAYS "done it". Period. They will ALWAYS "do it". Period.

You can either ensure that they will be intelligent in their activities (even the Xtian teenagers "do it") and safe, and will thus survive their teens and early 20s largely intact, or you can lie to them, withhold information and materials from them in the false belief that it is simply the information and protection that puts sex thoughts into their heads, and watch them ruin their lives with undesired pregnancies and diseases.

Teens do sex. Get over it. Even the "Good girls" and "Good boys" have sex. Get over it. YOU likely did it (or REALLY wanted to and tried to but failed because you were clueless).

Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on June 4, 2006 at 3:06 PM | PERMALINK

They'll never stop our sex-based jihadist cult. We get our plan B from pharmacist friends or make our own from progesterone only birth control pills. All hail the plan B. Plan B Akbar!

Posted by: cultist on June 4, 2006 at 3:13 PM | PERMALINK

I'll never forget a debate with some wingnut who inisisted that since he could not find data on the number of abortions each year past 1996 that the Clinton White House had decided to not allow such reporting hoping the hide the supposed fact that abortions rose during the 1990's. When I found and showed him the data that abortions continued to decline after 1996 - he just got angry. Curious - have abortions started increasing since the Theocrats have seized power?

Posted by: pgl on June 4, 2006 at 3:29 PM | PERMALINK

but failed because you were clueless
or UGLY AND FAT!
but hey, keep on drinkin' that beer and smokin' those cigarettes, Amerikkka.
More Snickers!
More Coke!

>sorry, Bill. I just couldn't help myself

Posted by: someOtherClown on June 4, 2006 at 3:31 PM | PERMALINK

I swear, no one thinks about sex, homosexual sex, kinky sex, sex cults, depraved sexual acts, etc, ad nauseum, than religious right nutbags rightously denouncing all things sexual as a sin against god. Swingers and wife-swappers, hookers and porn stars don't think about sex this much. They seriously need some therapy to figure out why they are so obsessed with all things sexual.

Posted by: Platosearwax on June 4, 2006 at 3:31 PM | PERMALINK

Taking Do As I say not as I do to the extreme

Why do these Republicans expect everyone else to be morally depraved fiends because they often themselves are:

Dr. W. David Hager was a presidential appointee to the Advisory Committee for Reproductive Health Drugs in the Food and Drug Administrarion. He once sanctimoniously claimed, "God called me to stand in the gap, not only for others, but regarding ethical and moral issues in our country."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/24/12938/7100

He was a central figure in blocking plan B and wrote the minority dissent that was adopted by the Bush administration. When his term was up he wasnt reappointed. Why? Because it came out that he had repeatedly forcibly sodomized his wife without her consent while she was out on medication and then left money on the nightstand.
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/35/11093

As for the question as to why dont they tell the truth about the reasons, its because the real reasons are not lawful reasons. They make up scientific pretexts to meet the legal requirements. If they were honest the courts would reverse the decisions immediatiely. The deception is inherently necessary.

Posted by: Catch22 on June 4, 2006 at 3:49 PM | PERMALINK

Well, the sex-based cults thing isn't to far off base... Kids do stupid things.

But that wouldn't happen in states with abstinence sex ed, would it?

Posted by: Crissa on June 4, 2006 at 3:55 PM | PERMALINK

and up the road other middle-aged married women who were abstinent before marriage will be penalised for having sex with their husbands--by developing cervical cancer.

Posted by: sammy on June 4, 2006 at 3:56 PM | PERMALINK

Adolescents and sexual function, what a trip. The alternative is masturbation. I would think fooling around with their peers would be better, as long as they don't get into the coupling up before their time.

The real problem are the adult perverts, generally from some fundamentalist religious background. What we need is a law that says the religious fundamentalists have to stay in a certain part of town, sort of fenced in where they cannot pollute the normal kids.


Posted by: Matt on June 4, 2006 at 3:57 PM | PERMALINK

Uh, hello? If this woman wasn't intending to procreate, why was she having sex in the first place?

Posted by: Pat on June 4, 2006 at 4:18 PM | PERMALINK

The fact is that the Religious Right is not just against emergency contraception, they're against contraception, period.

Posted by: LeisureGuy on June 4, 2006 at 4:22 PM | PERMALINK

If the far right in this country loses abortion as their rallying issue, they're dead. The last thing they want is a safe, easy-to-get alternative to abortion. They could care less about the fetuses they purport to defend; it's been the lie of the anti-abortionist movement for thirty years.

Posted by: NealB on June 4, 2006 at 4:34 PM | PERMALINK

"It's Bush's fault."

Honestly, I wonder if you Dems have a clue how ridiculous you sound.

Posted by: Paddy Whack on June 4, 2006 at 4:38 PM | PERMALINK

Good point. Actually, it's Cheney and Rove's fault. Bush is too stupid to pressure the FDA on plan B. You may now go back to Whacking, there Paddy.

Posted by: Pat on June 4, 2006 at 4:42 PM | PERMALINK

sex-based cults

If this doesn't describe the GOP, I don't know what does.

Posted by: craigie on June 4, 2006 at 4:48 PM | PERMALINK

Big powerful intrusive government run by unaccountable bureaucrats engaging in politicized decisionmaking to satisfy favored interest groups. You guys wanted it, you guys got it.
The only provocative part of that piece is the author's failure to take any responsibility whatsoever.

Posted by: Ultra Mega Mega Man on June 4, 2006 at 4:48 PM | PERMALINK

I hope the woman gets a new physician, which is another part of this story that should be mentioned. Her doctor refused her a prescription? Yikes.

Posted by: buckets on June 4, 2006 at 5:22 PM | PERMALINK

Uh, hello? If this woman wasn't intending to procreate, why was she having sex in the first place?

because sex is fun and pleasureable.

Posted by: spacebaby on June 4, 2006 at 5:47 PM | PERMALINK

That the day should come when I find ANYTHING to say in agreement with the Bush crowd! It has to be said though - I think it's an important point that nobody's made yet: These pills are potent hormones that shouldn't be used casually. I firmly believe in a woman's right to choose for herself, but somebody has got to explain to young people that there could be serious side-effects to using (or over-using) this kind of medication.

Posted by: Susan on June 4, 2006 at 5:49 PM | PERMALINK

I firmly believe in a woman's right to choose for herself, but somebody has got to explain to young people that there could be serious side-effects to using (or over-using) this kind of medication.

Do you have any evidence to support this contention or is this an opinion you have because that's just how it feels?

Posted by: Col Bat Guano on June 4, 2006 at 5:57 PM | PERMALINK

If God had not intended teenage girls to get pregnant, then he wouldn't have made it possible. I keep my four wives - 12, 14, 15 and 17 - pregnant constantly.

I must be off now to my local GOP fundraiser...

Posted by: A Utah wingnut on June 4, 2006 at 6:05 PM | PERMALINK

Its amazing that people can find the courage to argue against something so obviously helpful, that could prevent so many unwanted childen. And as we all know, childen born to single mothers are at a much higher risk to commit crimes, go to the slammer, deal drugs, ect. (of course, the more unwanted childen, the more single mothers)

So if in 20 years, when we see crime spikes again, we can all say to "damn, Bush should have approved that god damn pill so we don't have to worry about all these screwed up people." We are all going to regret Bush's mistake if it is not corrected immediately, guarenteed.

Posted by: Tyler Plante on June 4, 2006 at 6:42 PM | PERMALINK

At a time when wars are being fought over scarce resources, and poor women in the United States are experiencing skyrocketing pregnancy rates, we of good conscience should promote family planning. Family planning includes the education and ability not to get pregnant if we choose. If the world at large wants to continue its crash course with destiny, resulting in more people and more wars, we cannot complain we also will have to sacrifice. We can't have it all ways.

Posted by: BJ Johnson on June 4, 2006 at 6:43 PM | PERMALINK

If Dana L's idiot husband would get a vasectomy--they say they consider their family "complete"--this would never have been an issue. Why does the woman get stuck with this problem?

Posted by: lucy on June 4, 2006 at 7:21 PM | PERMALINK

Diaphragm failure rate: 6 to 20 percent.

Posted by: lucy on June 4, 2006 at 7:35 PM | PERMALINK

She could have gone to a non-religious hospital for emergency contraceptive. Other sources are 1-800-not2late. Here's another listing for emergency contraceptive providers: http://ec.princeton.edu/

Posted by: dave on June 4, 2006 at 7:49 PM | PERMALINK

She could also have put her damn diaphragm in, which she didn't, called Planned Parenthood, which she didn't, until she needed an abortion, and done five minutes of research which would have told her that the effective window of Plan B is 5 days, not 3 (though its effectiveness declines each day), giving her plenty of time on Monday and Tuesday to find a prescription. This woman is not a very good poster child for Plan B, or the pro-choice movement.

Posted by: Jane Galt on June 4, 2006 at 9:08 PM | PERMALINK

Look, this article is the worst possible case for Plan B OTC. We have someone who is obviously sexually experienced and obviously educated. She, oops, forgets the diaphragm. She calls a couple of doctors for Plan B on a Friday afternoon and is unsuccessful. She balks at the idea of calling other doctors she doesn't know, or for that matter going to the emergency room of the nearest hospital. A few weeks on she discovers that she is pregnant, and then spends unlikely amounts of time and effort trying to find an abortion clinic until her agile mind finally alights on Planned Parenthood's website. Where, incidentally, she would have discovered the closest source of emergency contraception in the first place.

But it's obviously Bush's fault that she had to abort. Because her not using birth control when she presumably knew she was fertile (hint: you're still menstruating) was Bush's fault; and her doctor's refusal to prescribe was Bush's fault; and for that matter the brain-fart that led her to think of Planned Parenthood only after Googling all over the place in search of abortion clinics instead of going to PP at the beginning is also Bush's fault. I mean, obviously any and all American stupidity has but one fount and source, yes?

On the Internet, most of what I found was political in nature or otherwise unhelpful: pictures of what your baby looks like in the womb from week one, and so on.

OK, she typed "abortion" into Google. Sheesh.

Posted by: waterfowl on June 4, 2006 at 9:11 PM | PERMALINK
This woman is not a very good poster child... Jane Galt 9:08 PM
Anyone denied medical service because of religious zealotry is a poster child for choice. Posted by: Mike on June 4, 2006 at 10:09 PM | PERMALINK

I'm willing to give "Dana" some benefit of the doubt. After her first couple of attempts to get Plan B came to naught she figured that maybe everything would work out okay. Denial? Well for sure, but it's the sort of thing - of different specific types, obviously - that most people have done from time to time.

Posted by: Peter on June 4, 2006 at 10:12 PM | PERMALINK

Mike,

Anyone denied medical service because of religious zealotry is a poster child for choice.

But neither you nor I nor she nor anyone save the physician she talked to knows why she was denied the prescription. You're guessing.

Posted by: waterfowl on June 4, 2006 at 10:29 PM | PERMALINK

Susan writes:

"I think it's an important point that nobody's made yet: These pills are potent hormones that shouldn't be used casually."

I don't recall anybody suggesting that they should, and, while no drug is totally safe, I'm pretty OK with:

"One FDA panel member called it the "safest drug that we have seen brought before us." The scientific evidence was overwhelming that access to Plan B would curtail abortion and unwanted pregnancies."


Look, people are gonna have sex. Some of them shouldn't, but that irrelevant. People are gonna have sex, and if we're really looking to avoid abortions and un-wanted pregnancies, this looks like a no-brainer.

If, however, you're more interested in punishing those whom you consider sinners, you'll make Plan B unavailable, having already lost the attempt to make it illegal.

Posted by: Slideguy on June 4, 2006 at 10:33 PM | PERMALINK

Wow! Jane Galt herself! She crawled out of her top-secret hideout where a secret cabal of world-dominating capitalist ubermenschen take turns raping her, just to visit our little blog and sneer condescendingly at a woman who was denied access to birth control by an objectively pointless and unscientific decision of a heavy-handed government agency.

You go, girl! Keep fighting for the cause of freedom!

Posted by: ajl on June 4, 2006 at 11:11 PM | PERMALINK

She could also have put her damn diaphragm in, which she didn't

yes, all those who for some reason have sex without contraception being readily available, including perhaps because of the moment, is a total moron who deserves to be sneered at. Unfortunately, this is a good number of people, including a few who were born that way.

called Planned Parenthood, which she didn't

sure, why trust a family doctor?

until she needed an abortion, and done five minutes of research which would have told her that the effective window of Plan B is 5 days, not 3 (though its effectiveness declines each day)

so in the end, it could very well be ineffective by the time she calls PP, gets a prescription, and so forth. So, you have nothing, huh?

giving her plenty of time on Monday and Tuesday to find a prescription.

the day or so layover very well making it much more likely that she will get pregnant

This woman is not a very good poster child for Plan B, or the pro-choice movement.

yes, only perfect souls are,you are so right.

That's why it has a hard time now and again ... too few of them out there.

Sheesh.

Posted by: Joe on June 4, 2006 at 11:22 PM | PERMALINK

A few other people have made this point, but I would just like to reiterate: while I sympathize with the woman's position, and whole-heartedly support the approval of OTC Plan-B and despise the Christian right-wing politics behind both the delay in its approval and the abortion waiting laws and clinic protesters, she does come off as kind of clueless for a 40-something professional. A quick internet search will reveal that you can get a doctor to phone in a prescription for Plan-B after filling out a brief questionnaire, without an exam or even a meeting. I know this because I've done it myself (although, for me, the pill didn't work and I got pregnant anyway . . . but the birth control pill, which Plan B basically is, has never worked so well for me . . .). As for lining up the pregnancy termination (or for that matter Plan-B itself), it is not at all hard to track down a Planned Parenthood in a major metro area.

On the other hand, I think it's also good to remember that a lot of otherwise together, intelligent women have hang-ups about pursuing these kinds of pills and procedures (in many ways precisely because of this social-political masculinist and Christianist bullshit circulating through our culture), and if this particular adult married woman could not handle it, just image what a 15 year girl in the same situation in somewhere like Alabama must have to go through. . . I would recommend reminding yourself of that fact before getting too judgmental about this woman's story.

Basically, political interference with what women do with their bodies needs to be kept to a bare minimum. Another appalling story I could recount occurred to my very own mother in the 1970's when we lived in Florida. After her second child, she wanted to get her tubes tied, but no, Florida law forbade it because according to some arcane calculation involving adding together her age and her husand's, she was too young to get the procedure done. As a result, she turned to a 70's style IUD that ended up nearly killing her several years later when it caused an ectopic pregancy. This is just to show that all these stupid laws have unintended consequences that truly can cost women their lives. It just continues to boggle my mind that so many people in this country seem to find the level of interference with reproductive decisions that we have here on the state and federal level acceptable in any way at all . . .

Posted by: pixi-bell on June 4, 2006 at 11:43 PM | PERMALINK

unfortunately, many american christofascists probably consider masturbation to be abortion ... who cares what these ignorant religious fanatics think, and why should we let them dictate health policy?

Posted by: Nads on June 5, 2006 at 12:45 AM | PERMALINK

next strawman argument?
Posted by: Cheney

abortin fetus = killing 5 yr old child ... as in

Are you also upset about the State "interfering" with Andrea Yates and Susan Smith's reproductive "choices"?
Posted by: Cheney

kindly shut the fuck up, jackass.

Posted by: Nads on June 5, 2006 at 12:54 AM | PERMALINK

even more pertinent, given that this thread is about Plan B, is the bullshit argumnent made by the xtian fanatics that preventing the fertilization of an egg somehow equals killing a 5yo child.

Posted by: Nads on June 5, 2006 at 12:56 AM | PERMALINK

Plan B can abort an already fertilized egg, not just "preventing the fertilization of an egg" - jackass.
Posted by: Cheney

why should you be believed? you're not a scientist ... you're a fanatic xtian fundamentalist who barely even BELIEVES in science. how the fuck would an ignorant piece of shit like you know how something as sophisticated as synthetic hormonal analogues work?

as it stands, the majority of data supports the pre-fertilization action of contraception of Plan B. At best, it just cannot exclude a post-fertilization but pre-implantation event.

And fertilized eggs rolling around in the fallopian tube aren't generally referred to as "aborted" except by ignorant wingnuts. An implanted fetus can be aborted ... no one, hopefully, is equating a rolling 64-cell mass with a 5 yr old child ... are they?

Posted by: Nads on June 5, 2006 at 1:15 AM | PERMALINK

Cheney then ...

Are you also upset about the State "interfering" with Andrea Yates and Susan Smith's reproductive "choices"?
Posted by: Cheney


Cheney now ...

I "believe" in science, I've read the research on Plan B, and legally speaking, a 64-cell mass is not equal to a 5 yr old child, yet. So, I don't think I've posted anything I cannot back up.
Posted by: Cheney

Shut the fuck up, you ignorant religious fanatic.

Posted by: Nads on June 5, 2006 at 1:27 AM | PERMALINK

Meanwhile, Valley Girls are now calling what used to be "hunks" lollipops, which tells me all I need to know about contemporary teenage sexual mores.

Posted by: Brian Boru on June 5, 2006 at 1:30 AM | PERMALINK

despite your fascination with his penis, are you sue it was clinton's fault?

I thought it was because reagan married the blowjob queen of hollywood.

Posted by: Nads on June 5, 2006 at 1:37 AM | PERMALINK

frankly, I couldn't answer for why the xtian fanatics cannot control their kids' media or otherwise do their jobs as parents.

Posted by: Nads on June 5, 2006 at 1:49 AM | PERMALINK

we've already agreed that an unattached rolling 1 to 64-cell mass is not equivalent to an actual, living 5yo child ...

the implication in your question suggests that they are. we've already agreed that they aren't ...

reproductive endocrinologists possess several unimplanted embryos. are they committing murder by not implanting them? of course not ... only the fanatics believe otherwise.

Posted by: Nads on June 5, 2006 at 2:09 AM | PERMALINK

I'm pro-choice, but this really rubbed me the wrong way. This is a terrible article for the choice movement. She was too lazy to use birth control and takes no responsibility for that. She called 2 doctors and her midwife, gave up and hand an abortion. She didn't do any research to find out that plan B works up to 120 hours after conception. (30 seconds with google but the sooner you take it the better) She didn't call planned parenthood to find out if she could pick up plan-B from their office that afternoon. (Likely) She didn't call her midwife back, explain the situation to them and try to get a last minute appointment. She did argue with her internist's receptionist about why the doctor wouldn't prescribe plan-b. But she doesn't say in the article that she *asked* for a referral to someone that would.

My take on it: She's pretty lazy and very self absorbed. Not really the poster child for choice.

Posted by: Garble on June 5, 2006 at 6:51 AM | PERMALINK

Wow. Cheney and waterfowl. The mind boggles.

Posted by: shortstop on June 5, 2006 at 9:22 AM | PERMALINK

And Cheney, you never proved that Plan B equals abortion. I don't give a hoot if you and your twit brethren think that a fertilized egg that 'taint even been implanted in the uterus yet is a living, breathing homunculi human in miniature (which you apparently do), that's not the point here. Even if the egg is a tiny little human, and even if Plan B does constitute an abortion, and even if you think it's a mortal sin, it's protected by law. The fact is, your opinions on this point don't matter a bit.

That said, perhaps you could explain just when you think the removal of a blastocyst/embryo/fetus/baby from the mother's body isn't an abortion.

When the sperm is 1" from the egg.
When the sperm is 1 micron from the egg.
When the sperm is entering the egg.
When the sperm has fertilized the egg.
When the blastocyst is moving into the uterus.
When the blastocyst is 1" from the uterine lining.
When the blastocyst is 1 micron from the uterine lining.
When the blastocyst breaches the uterine lining and is implanted.
When the uterine lining begins creating new capillaries to provide blood to the blastocyst.
When the blastocyst is the size of a pinhead (not yours).
When the embryo is the size of a pea.
When the embroy begins to develop a placenta.
When the embryo is the size of a almond.
Etc.

Perhaps when you can identify the EXACT MOMENT in this process any removal would constitute an abortion, and perhaps then we can identify how complete a total fucking moron you actually are.

Thanks,

Posted by: Everett Volk on June 5, 2006 at 10:17 AM | PERMALINK

This is the very reason that doctors are encouraging women to get a prescription to Plan B, fill it in advance and keep it at home for emergencies. Responsible parents can get Susie a prescription. If Sally (with irresponsible parents) needs it, Sally can get it from Susie and Susie can get a refill. There could be a whole underground trade in Plan B that could greatly reduce the abortion rate in the US.

Who doesn't want to reduce the abortion rate?

Posted by: bakho on June 5, 2006 at 10:43 AM | PERMALINK

shortstop,

Wow. Cheney and waterfowl. The mind boggles.

I guess yours boggles easily. Speaking as the duck that didn't get shot, I can only say that I didn't really invite him to my bit of wetlands.

Posted by: waterfowl on June 5, 2006 at 11:31 AM | PERMALINK

I guess yours boggles easily.

It does, actually. I retain a childlike sense of wonder and an ability to acknowledge and enjoy unexpected comedic moments. The strangeness of political bedfellows is a particularly ripe subject for mirth.

Posted by: shortstop on June 5, 2006 at 11:59 AM | PERMALINK

The female "productive track?" As in "track and field?"

Is that a dirt track or asphalt?

Posted by: erica on June 5, 2006 at 12:41 PM | PERMALINK

Is that a dirt track or asphalt?

It's only dirty if you have fun while you're using it, erica.

Posted by: shortstop on June 5, 2006 at 12:45 PM | PERMALINK

This is what happens when you let creationists out of the trailer park. I'm getting pretty sick of dragging this dead weight around with us.
.

Posted by: Grand Moff Texan on June 5, 2006 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINK

Cheney: . . . where we resolve the benefit of any doubt in FAVOR of human life . . .

Conservatives are always wanting to resolve the abortion and end-of-life issues in favor of human life, but in ever other situation in disfavor to human life.

Like with executions.

Or torture.

Or invasions of other countries.

Or global warming.

Or state-federal responsibility for disaster relief.

Or AIDS.

Or contraceptives.

Or genocide in the Sudan.

Or political refugees from Haiti and Africa (i.e., blacks need not apply while conservatives rule).

Or corporate compliance with worker safety and environmental laws.

Or when it comes to law enforcement methods (shoot first, ask questions later is the conservative creed!).

Etc, etc, etc.

Yeah, LOL getting anyone to take you seriously on conservatives "favoring" human life.

Bwahhhahhhahhhaaah!

Posted by: Advocate for God on June 5, 2006 at 12:51 PM | PERMALINK

Cheney: P.S. Nads - you never did prove that "many american christofascists probably consider masturbation to be abortion ..."

A non-sensical request, since one would have to prove what "american christofascists" were actually thinking rather than what they are actually saying.

But if it makes you feel better to think you won one against another poster, pat yourself on the back.

BTW, if you are so keen on this argument, then prove that their were probably some people in the Bush administration who actually considered Saddam to be a threat with something other than self-serving public statements or reports or communications that were known would become public.

In other words, please provide us with conclusive evidence for what any Bush administration official was actually thinking, not what they said they were thinking, prior to April 2003.

Posted by: Advocate for God on June 5, 2006 at 1:32 PM | PERMALINK

All this religious harping about the unborn being viable is not supported by actual scripture. It's merely the interpretation of those who wish to twist the meanings of scripture to suit their own beliefs. Much like them rooting for the war and killing people as a matter of "protecting our freedoms", how is that in line with any scripture? Exodus 20:13 "You shall not murder." Well, isn't invading another country and killing its citizens murder? OTH, the bible doesn't see a fetus as a person, it's not until a child takes a breath is it considered a person, so this whole "protect the unborn" has zero to do with the bible and is just a product of zealotry. Check this website for references in the bible for considering a child a person after taking that first breath: http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_biblh.htm

Posted by: Peh on June 5, 2006 at 2:56 PM | PERMALINK

The FDA's definition of pregnancy relates to when the conceptus has implanted. Prior to implantation (and really, for a few days afterward) there's no way to prove that there is a pregnancy. The first possible date by which you could reliably confirm the presence of HCG in the bloodstream is about 10-12 days after ovulation. What anti-choicers are really aiming for, I presume, is the view that once a woman has sex, she is PUPO -- pregnant until proven otherwise -- and no one including her should do anything that would interfere with her fledgling fledgling.

Posted by: Barbara on June 5, 2006 at 3:47 PM | PERMALINK

I firmly believe in a woman's right to choose for herself, but somebody has got to explain to young people that there could be serious side-effects to using (or over-using) this kind of medication.

As someone who has actually taken Plan B, I'm a lot more concerned about a young person overusing Ritalin.

Since I've taken Plan B, I can't wait for Cheney to call me a baby-killer. Especially since I thought about having sex with my husband, and thought about using a condom. Not only did we think about it, we actually did both of those things. The condom slipped off so we went to Plan B, pun intended. Cheney, you really should be grateful that we didn't produce another hated liberal instead.

Posted by: Lynn Walthall on June 5, 2006 at 4:48 PM | PERMALINK

Rather than complain about not being able to get Plan B, the woman should instead get her tubes tied. In a "moment of passion" a 42 year old woman and her husband, "forget" to use birth-control? Come one, are they teenagers? Another example of the "pro-Choice" crowd want to do whatever they want, whenever they want, without want the responsiblities that go with those decisions. PATHETIC!

Posted by: Kevin Shook on June 5, 2006 at 5:08 PM | PERMALINK

if you want a free and open society, then you have to get over the fact people will be stupid and irresponsible, and they often won't suffer much for it. it's not the government's or the FDA's job to engage in gatekeeping to ensure only that responsible and worthy people have personal freedoms. the woman in the article might not be a great 'poster' child because she was dumb and careless. even so, that has no bearing on whether Plan B should be available over the counter or whether this particular women should have easy access to it. her carelessless and irresponsibility is completely irrelevant.

Posted by: spacebaby on June 5, 2006 at 8:27 PM | PERMALINK

Not to mention that her carelessness and irresponsibility pale in comparison to that of, say, the average smoker, and yet still, we find it in our hearts (and our best interest) to spend millions for the research and treatment of lung cancer, which is almost entirely preventable.

Posted by: Barbara on June 5, 2006 at 10:55 PM | PERMALINK

what did you expect after the President of United States made "oral sex" an accepted part of the 5th grade lexicon.

Actually, I think we have pantysniffer extraordinaire Ken Starr and his Republican enablers to thank for that. Clinton got a blowjob, but he wasn't the one to write a 500-page report about it.

Posted by: JB on June 5, 2006 at 10:57 PM | PERMALINK

Cheney, there's no way of knowing if there was a "baby" I killed at that point or not, was there? Hence the question you got upthread about where you drew the line. To which, IIRC, the response was that one should think about that if they are considering having sex. Nice try.

Posted by: Lynn Walthall on June 6, 2006 at 11:51 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin Shook: Rather than complain about not being able to get Plan B, the woman should instead get her tubes tied. . . . Another example of the "pro-Choice" crowd want to do whatever they want, whenever they want, without want the responsiblities that go with those decisions. PATHETIC!

Notice, he didn't say for the husband to get his tubes cut.

Pathetic.

Yet another example of how misogyny and an obsession with sex drives the anti-abortion Right, not a respect for life.

Posted by: Advocate for God on June 6, 2006 at 12:31 PM | PERMALINK

Cheney, I wonder if you could provide for us that elusive tenet from the original translation of the bible (not the reconstituted new versions) that tells us anything other than a child is only valued after it takes its 1st breath.

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Posted by: julines on June 7, 2006 at 1:06 AM | PERMALINK




 

 

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