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Tilting at Windmills

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June 22, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

MORE ON NORTH KOREA....Over at Defense Tech, Noah Shachtman is unimpressed with William Perry's call to destroy North Korea's missile test site before it can be used to launch a new, long-range ICBM:

The hype kicked into high gear when the New York Times claimed that the Norks "completed fueling a long-range ballistic missile" over the weekend. But the report is getting fishier by the second. The Norks generally rely on a highly corrosive gasoline-kerosene mix for their missile fuel, and an oxidizer containing nitric acid. It's nasty, metal-eating stuff. And once fueled up, the missile has to be launched quickly two or three days, I've been told or else the missile is basically ruined.

It's now been four days. And there's been no launch. Which means it's becoming increasingly unlikely that a missile has been fueled. So much for Perry's demand "to strike the [missile] if North Korea refuses to drain the fuel out."

....Now, what happens if we strike North Korea and there's no missile to hit? What does that do to American standing, then?

The New York Times does not exactly have a great reputation for balance and fact checking when it comes to passing along alarmist information about the axis of evil. Maybe the Koreans have just built a giant paper mache model?

Kevin Drum 11:51 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (67)

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Comments

i've heard reports of yellow cake from niger and aluminium tubes as well. i think we should flatten the country myself...

Posted by: mudwall jackson on June 22, 2006 at 11:55 AM | PERMALINK

oh and judy miller told me personally that there's an al qaeda base camp and mosh pit just outside of pyongyang...

Posted by: mudwall jackson on June 22, 2006 at 11:57 AM | PERMALINK

Nitric acid as Oxydizer, that's WWII standard. This gadget is of no more than symbolic value. Bombing it would be a waste of amunition.

Posted by: Jrgen in Germany on June 22, 2006 at 11:58 AM | PERMALINK

Now, what happens if we strike North Korea and there's no missile to hit? What does that do to American standing, then?

America would be in great standing because it's better to be safe than sorry. How would you feel if a nuclear missile from North Korea struck Washington D.C. and we didn't do anything to preemptively stop it because you were afraid of what the French would think of us?

Posted by: Al on June 22, 2006 at 11:59 AM | PERMALINK

"Maybe the Koreans have just built a giant paper mache model?"

You realize, of course, that in the unlikely but still possible event that North Korea has and ultimately launches a nuke at some country, these words of yours will be blared on every single Republican blog television ad for the next century... right?

Posted by: plunge on June 22, 2006 at 11:59 AM | PERMALINK

paper mache model?!
Reminds me of Saddams inflatable Scuds in the desert.

Posted by: Jrgen in Germany on June 22, 2006 at 12:00 PM | PERMALINK

American standing? Ha, Ha, Ha!!!

Posted by: steve duncan on June 22, 2006 at 12:02 PM | PERMALINK

(reposted from end of the other thread)

Why do people insist on making him (Kim) out to be crazy?

He's not. He's played off the US as well as any foreign leader. He's (and his "crazy" dad) built a force that has kept us at bay for 50 years. He's held his country together in the face of world wide embargo and massive famine. His people are not "ready to revolt" - why should they, when he can legitmately point to the embargo and say "the reason you suffer is because the United States and their lackeys at the UN refuse to let us trade."

Brutal? Sure. Egomaniacal? Sure, but little worse than the cult of personality that pervades our own government (anyone catch the children signing Bush's praises for helping New Orleans?). Live a lot better than his people? Well, no shit, compare how our president lives compared to people just 3 miles away. Show me a world leader who suffers with his people.

We had a great policy in place that was slowly bringing NK into the world community. NK and SK were reconciling, even allowing families to travel back and forth. Bush wrecked all of that.

We need to sign a peace treaty and non-aggression pact with NK. That would stabilize the region by orders of magnitude.

NK isn't going to collapse. Attacking it will give Kim more feverent support than he has ever had before.

He's NOT going to launch a pre-emptive strike on the US. He is not seeking martyrdom. He has wisely decided that he needs nukes to stand off the US, because the US IS a country that will pre emptivly invade other countries it disagrees with.

I would be very surprised if NK doesn't retaliate if we take down their missile. Not with full war, but certainly with a similar small strike of their own - perhaps a dirty warhead at a US base. WE would then strike disproportionately, and they would likely flatten Seoul.

Its time to put adults in charge of our foreign policy. Perry is making a big mistake here.

Posted by: Mysticdog on June 22, 2006 at 12:06 PM | PERMALINK

I say we build a wall at the US - North Korea border.

Posted by: nutty little nut nut on June 22, 2006 at 12:06 PM | PERMALINK

"The Norks"?

Posted by: craigie on June 22, 2006 at 12:07 PM | PERMALINK

Al asked, "How would you feel if a nuclear missile from North Korea struck Washington D.C. and we didn't do anything to preemptively stop it..."

Washington D.C.? Hold on, I'm still thinking.

Posted by: nutty little nut nut on June 22, 2006 at 12:09 PM | PERMALINK

Let's quit screwing around here get rid of all taxes and world domination in 08. If we can't invade it nuke it. After all we are team America.

Posted by: Neo on June 22, 2006 at 12:10 PM | PERMALINK

Does anybody really give enough of a shit about North Korea to care what they do? They are one of the most marginalized countries on the planet.

Posted by: Quinn on June 22, 2006 at 12:11 PM | PERMALINK

Al nailed it. Whether they ever come up with a viable missile or not, North Korea should be nuked off the face of the earth for even conceiving of such a thing and attempting to match the U.S.A.'s greatness.

Posted by: American Hawk's stand-in on June 22, 2006 at 12:15 PM | PERMALINK

How can you people say such nasty things about me? I'm so ronery.

Posted by: Kim Jong-Il on June 22, 2006 at 12:17 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin could you please write about how Kerry is shooting his party in the foot again on the Senate floor this morning with his troop withdrawal crap!!! My god, Karl Rove just creamed his pants, the Nov election was just handed to him on a silver platter by John Kerry. I can't stand the Dems anymore and this bozo Kerry is absolutely killing the dems for Nov. Dems, leave Iraq alone, its the GOP albatross we allow it to be. This is NOT the 60s on the National Mall, god damn it!!! Excuse me while I vomit at our party leadership. Does any democratic strategist have any political sense at all? Once again, Karl wins. Thank you J. Kerry.

Posted by: the fake Fake Al on June 22, 2006 at 12:21 PM | PERMALINK

"Now, what happens if we strike North Korea and there's no missile to hit? What does that do to American standing, then?"

Who the hell cares?

They said they have a missile capable of reaching us, they said they wouldn't develop/launch ICBMs, they've gone back on that promise, they've said they have multiple nuclear weapons ... etc etc blah blah blah. They've said a lot. If we don't know for sure, let's just take their insane leader's word for it, eh? He's already shot a missile over Japan for crissakes! Is this author nutz?

Why are we worried that they MIGHT NOT have them, MIGHT NOT launch them? They've told us they have 'em, they've told us they'd launch on the US if they had to -- they've told us all we need to hear ...

Bomb the damn thing. If there's no missile to hit, it's their own fault, and who the hell cares anyway?

Who cares what it does to "American standing"? What the hell has "America's standing" in world opinion ever done for us, for you? Nothing! Do you think the foreign policies of all nations should be dictated by all other nations - via public opinion polls? Like I care what a bunch of Frenchmen think of the US. Like it matters.

One might ask the author of this inane piece,

""Now, what happens if we don't strike North Korea and they launch and strike Japan? What does that do to the region, the world, the environment? What will it do to America's standing in the world when they all think we're too scared of bad press to take decisive action?"

Posted by: SunBeltJerry on June 22, 2006 at 12:25 PM | PERMALINK

Please ignore SunBeltJerry. He is not a troll, just an idiot.

Posted by: GOD on June 22, 2006 at 12:28 PM | PERMALINK

Too much sun and too many belts.

Posted by: nutty little nut nut on June 22, 2006 at 12:33 PM | PERMALINK
before it can be used to launch a new, long-range ICBM:

The Taepodong-2's speculative range is, as ICBM's go, not particularly long-range.

Posted by: cmdicely on June 22, 2006 at 12:38 PM | PERMALINK

As I claimed on the last NK thread. Perry and Carter are smart people, smart enough to know that the Cheney administration doesn't listen to anyone outside the administration EVER. Further the existence of the single missle in a state to launch indicates more danger of the US POLICY that permitted things to get to this point, than from the missle itself, of which we have more than adequate tools to defend against. Hence the op-ed was not advocacy but dilpomacy and education of the public.

Posted by: pateince on June 22, 2006 at 12:39 PM | PERMALINK

"You realize, of course, that in the unlikely but still possible event that North Korea has and ultimately launches a nuke at some country, these words of yours will be blared on every single Republican blog television ad for the next century... right?

Posted by: plunge on June 22, 2006 at 11:59 AM | PERMALINK"

Sure plunge, because everyone knows Kevin is the supreme leader for all Americans more progressive than Dick Cheney-Give us a break.

Posted by: CDWard on June 22, 2006 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINK

One thing's for certain:

The media should start calling this "The Korean Missile Crisis".

Bush needs to start stealing Kennedy's thunder NOW!

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on June 22, 2006 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINK

And maybe Conde Rice is busy working on a gigantic papier mache mushroom cloud.

Any bets that her cocktail napkin blueprint will mistakenly signify inches instead of feet and we'll wind up with a Spinal Tap "miniature Stonehenge" moment?

Posted by: gar on June 22, 2006 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINK

just a reminder...

remember the bush admin. withheld news that north korea had nukes until

after...

congress voted on the iraq resolution in oct. 2004..

Posted by: thisspaceavailable on June 22, 2006 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINK

This ties into Mr. Drum's later comment, 'Blogs and the Media': Shachtman's piece is a sterling example of why we should be damn glad that the net is bypassing the normal media organs. This is precisely the kind of thing that the technological illiterates at the WaPo, the NYT, and the networks would pump up out of all proportion, with nary a mention of how, at best, this missile seems to represent an advance on V-2 level rocketry.

"Norks" is kind of a slick coinage, though it sounds like something that'd show up in a Spielberg movie, and thus isn't quite as fearsome-sounding as our home-grown war advocates would like....

Posted by: sglover on June 22, 2006 at 12:49 PM | PERMALINK

oops 2002

Posted by: thisspaceavailable on June 22, 2006 at 12:51 PM | PERMALINK

If only Robert Smith of the Cure were here. He could use his Robert Punch to knock the Diamond of Pantheos out of the Taepodong rendering it useless -- then toss the entire country of North Korea into outer space!

Posted by: pseudo-Agrippa on June 22, 2006 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

Don't know if anyone's been over to Arms Control Wonk, but they raise some interesting points about whether we could even use the Ground-based Midcourse Defense (GMD) program to shoot the Korean missle down.

Posted by: cyntax on June 22, 2006 at 12:55 PM | PERMALINK

"How would you feel if a nuclear missile from North Korea struck Washington D.C."

Id feel terrible, but I'm not worried.

The Norks [I love that] ain't got a missile that can hit anything,
And
ain't got any nukes to attach to it.

Let's move along folks, this is just another fake outside.

Update:
I hear Lebanon is trying to build the world's largest donair.
Onto Beirut everyone!

Posted by: Pierre Asciutto on June 22, 2006 at 12:59 PM | PERMALINK

And maybe Conde Rice is busy working on a gigantic papier mache mushroom cloud.

The only mushroom Condi is working belongs to GWB.

Posted by: Hank Scorpio on June 22, 2006 at 1:00 PM | PERMALINK

Is William Perry not a troll, just an idiot too?
Posted by: Cheney on June 22, 2006 at 12:36 PM | PERMALINK

A serious answer to a silly question from a silly person:
Myself, I think he's applying for a job - he mistakenly believes that there will be a Democratic administration within his lifetime.

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on June 22, 2006 at 1:02 PM | PERMALINK

Gar

Condi isnt working on a gigantic papier mache mushroom cloud.

Not today anyways.

Shes over in Hungary playing hide the salami with Dubya.

Posted by: Pierre Asciutto on June 22, 2006 at 1:03 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, I say we take out that missile. Our preemption strategy has been such a success in Iraq that I can't wait to try it out on another country.

Really though, if the North Koreans were sufficiently provoked (say, by something like a cruise missile) one missile might be the least of our problems. One thing North Korea has no shortage of is conventional weaponry and we have plenty of troops, not to mention Seoul, within artillery range.

Posted by: joe bob on June 22, 2006 at 1:08 PM | PERMALINK
Myself, I think he's applying for a job - he mistakenly believes that there will be a Democratic administration within his lifetime.

Except for the "mistakenly", which I think is unduly pessimistic, I tend to agree; particularly, I think he's setting himself up as a safe choice for Defense Secretary in a Democratic administration that may still have either a Republican majority or near parity in the Senate.

Posted by: cmdicely on June 22, 2006 at 1:10 PM | PERMALINK

Is William Perry not a troll

Perry is a Democratic war pig. Like Hillary. Like Kerry. Like all of the other Democrats who voted to give the reptillian monster Bush war powers. Anathema upon him.

Posted by: Hostile on June 22, 2006 at 1:20 PM | PERMALINK

with nary a mention of how, at best, this missile seems to represent an advance on V-2 level rocketry.

Not really - the V-2 used cryogenic fuel, which has a lot of sticky engineering problems, especially in military applications. (storing, fueling, how long the vehicle can sit on the pad fueled and waiting for all-systems-go, etc.) - (though the Germans did use hypergolic fuels for other applications, like the Me-163 rocket plane).

US Ballistic missiles like the Titan series (long since retired) used a hypergolic (non cryogenic) liquid fuel, which permits a more rapid preparation for more responsive military applications. Though use of a hypergolic oxidizer has it's own problems - they're usually very nasty hazardous chemicals, very difficult to store and handle safely.

It sounds like the Taepodong-2 is actually using a hypergolic oxidizer. Which puts it a generation beyond the V-2. And about two generations, or 30-40 years behind current US technology - which utilizes solid-fuel boosters, like the Peacekeeper and Minuteman series.

Solid-fuel rockets can be stored long term, and fired at a moment's notice. I'd be a lot more worried if NK was developing an ICBM with that capability. The US went from hypergolic to solid in about 20 years, with a very robust economy with international trade. I doubt very much that NK will be able to duplicate that, or field these missiles in large numbers. Consider the number and pace of testing the US did in that period, compared to what NK is doing. They flew their last test, what, like 3 years ago? And the US maintained a test schedule of hundreds of tests per year through the 1940's, 50's, 60's, and 70's. You simply can't develop the kind of expertise and technology that the US has delivered without that amount of testing and industrial input - or help from someone else who has.

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on June 22, 2006 at 1:24 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin Drum >"...Maybe the Koreans have just built a giant paper mache model?"

gar >"And maybe Conde Rice is busy working on a gigantic papier mache mushroom cloud..."

Sounds like we should invite them both to Burning Man this year

Someone needs to prove to me that their missle can actualy lift off the launch pad and go somewhere; launch it !!

And maybe they will wait till July 4th so it can be part of our fireworks celebrations when it comes apart somewhere over the central Pacific Ocean (too bad TBrosz, time to paddle back to shore)

"The future will be a struggle between huge competing systems of psychopathology." - J. G. Ballard

Posted by: daCascadian on June 22, 2006 at 1:28 PM | PERMALINK

Technically wrong.
The combination, RFNA (red fuming nitric acid) and Kerosene was used on Titan II missiles in silos, and they would be X-rayed every few months to make sure the fuel levels were OK, but they could stay in the hole for a very long time.

Posted by: Matthew Saroff on June 22, 2006 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergolic

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on June 22, 2006 at 1:39 PM | PERMALINK

Not really - the V-2 used cryogenic fuel, which has a lot of sticky engineering problems, especially in military applications. (storing, fueling, how long the vehicle can sit on the pad fueled and waiting for all-systems-go, etc.) - (though the Germans did use hypergolic fuels for other applications, like the Me-163 rocket plane).

I should've been more specific; I stand corrected. But we agree on this: Both the V-2 and the putative 'Nork' missile use(d) liquid fuel, which is not at all what you want in a military rocket. The very fact that we're talking about satellite images of the 'Nork' missile sitting on the pad attests to that.

Posted by: sglover on June 22, 2006 at 1:39 PM | PERMALINK

Osama_Been_Forgotten >"...You simply can't develop the kind of expertise and technology that the US has delivered without that amount of testing and industrial input - or help from someone else who has."

Certainly no shortage of "suspects"

Can you say China, maybe Pakistan ?

And who makes good enough spot on guidance systems, maybe Russia ?

Or maybe, all together now, this group of folks ?

So I wonder what they have been able to buy with all that counterfeit currency & all that meth they supposedly have sold or maybe "Heavenly Father" Rev. Moon has been helping...

I sure would like to see a flight test of all this stuff thrown together w/o much, if any, testing

"Privacy and security are like backyards: they take on a whole new meaning when we put the word "my" in front of them." - Charles D. Wheeler

Posted by: daCascadian on June 22, 2006 at 1:43 PM | PERMALINK

Well, the V-2 did, in fact, serve the Germans very well. It did not win them the war, but tens of thousands of civillians were killed.

And both the Soviets and the US dealt with the problems of these older generations of ICBM's - and having such missiles in Cuba was enough to cause a bit of a dust-up.

But as far as capabilities go - North Korea's implementation is not really anything to be afraid of. Now, or anytime in the next 10-20 years. Probably a lot longer if we keep them "contained" (ie. sanctions).

The danger is that China will do all the testing and development legwork (using money that the US pays them for Federal Budget Deficit, and via WalMart); and hand over their technology to NK. *that* would be seriously fucked up.

But our China policy has been seriously fucked up by the Cheap-Labor Republicans since Nixon. What was the point of this policy? To sandbag the US middle-class to loosen labor's grip on US politics. Obviously it worked out pretty well for them. Except for that whole "new threatening nuclear-armed asian superpower" thing.

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on June 22, 2006 at 1:47 PM | PERMALINK

Osama_Been_Forgotten >"...Except for that whole "new threatening nuclear-armed asian superpower" thing."

Well Junior does need a job when he leaves the White House ya know

"The wind blows over the surface of the lake. In this way, the effects of the invisible are made visible." - I Ching

Posted by: daCascadian on June 22, 2006 at 1:51 PM | PERMALINK

"The danger is that China will do all the testing and development legwork (using money that the US pays them for Federal Budget Deficit, and via WalMart); and hand over their technology to NK. *that* would be seriously fucked up."

That is about as likely as (maybe less) US corporation selling the tech to them. The Chinese aren't all that pleasant, but they also aren't entirely stupid. North Korea is vastly closer to China than to us and its government is obviously not one you want to have nuclear missiles anywhere near you.

As to the original blog entry another reasonable possibility is that they did fuel the missile and no launch was made because it didn't work.

Really though it seems like North Korea is pretty much a black hole to the outside world, who knows what might be going on inside it any particular week.

Posted by: jefff on June 22, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

Mmany wanted the US to strike pre-emptively at the U.S.S.R. because they didn't want mushroom clouds in D.C., NY, Chicago, etc. Containment seems to have worked just fine in managing that situation. As Steve White correctly pointed out in a prior thread, containment will work with NK too. We just have to have patience and ignore the war mongers.

Posted by: Kurzleg on June 22, 2006 at 2:48 PM | PERMALINK

Many in the US wanted a preemptive strike against the USSR, and they used the old "mushroom cloud over D.C./NY/LA/Chicago" argument too. But containment seemed to manage that situation just fine, and as Steve White correctly observed in comments to a prior post, it will work with NK too. We just have to be patient and not listen to the war mongers.

Posted by: Kurzleg on June 22, 2006 at 2:51 PM | PERMALINK

Apologies for the double post.

Posted by: Kurzleg on June 22, 2006 at 2:52 PM | PERMALINK

The Bush Administration has spent some $billions on an anti-ballistic missile defense system. One of the major justifications was to defend against rogue countries like North Korea. I say, let's test the sucker against the North Korean "test". I can't imagine a more realistic test of our vaunted anti-ballistic missile system.

Posted by: piscosour on June 22, 2006 at 3:00 PM | PERMALINK

"I can't imagine a more realistic test.."

And when it brings exactly fuck-all down from the sky?

Posted by: Pierre Asciutto on June 22, 2006 at 3:07 PM | PERMALINK

Best to just wait till it rains and see if the thing melts.

Posted by: B on June 22, 2006 at 3:15 PM | PERMALINK

You realize, of course, that in the unlikely but still possible event that North Korea has and ultimately launches a nuke at some country, these words of yours will be blared on every single Republican blog television ad for the next century... right?

You realize, of course, that if Norks nuke Nagasaki nobody, not net nannies, not NSA narks, not nattering nervous neocon Nellies, absolutely nobody's gonna care if a guy typing away at his PC in his underwear in southern California was wrong about the threat beforehand.

Posted by: B on June 22, 2006 at 3:35 PM | PERMALINK

Osama writes: The danger is that China will do all the testing and development legwork ...; and hand over their technology to NK. *that* would be seriously fucked up.

That's not going to happen. North Korea is China's lapdog, and you don't let a lapdog bite anyone unless you know for sure you can cover the potential trouble. The NKors are useful to China to stir up trouble, but there's a point beyond which you don't want trouble.

China is playing a long, patient game: they see the 21st Century as theirs, much as the 20th Century was ours and the 19th belonged to the Brits. They're working to build their country and find a blend of marxism and capitalism that will let them challenge the U.S. at some point in the future. If the NKors go off the reservation and start a war China is very likely to be drawn in, and that puts the longer-term plan at serious risk.

The NKors are being allowed to yap but I don't think China will permit them to bite. This is why containment is the right strategy (and one that the Bush administration has done rather well to this point), and why restrained, sober responses are appropriate now.

Posted by: Steve White on June 22, 2006 at 8:07 PM | PERMALINK

Uh, nitric acid (IRFNA) mixed with certain hydrocarbons blows up like crazy, and is still being used. Buit that stuff is really caustic, and the rocket would leak soon, but I couldnt't say how long.

Good point.

Posted by: ELMO on June 22, 2006 at 11:14 PM | PERMALINK

I absolutely believe that the level-headed present administration is doing what is rationally possible to contain NK's saber rattling. Now, if the US tries for a shoot-down when the NK rocket goes up, I guess that will be due to some information the administration has that we don't.

Posted by: Mike Cook on June 23, 2006 at 12:05 AM | PERMALINK

"the level-headed present administration"

That's Cute

I think you're confusing Level-headed with empty-headed.

Flat-headed?

Pumpkin Headed!

Posted by: Pierre Asciutto on June 23, 2006 at 12:19 AM | PERMALINK

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International travellers huh?

There is a bunch of posters on this blog who are fed up with typing America to victory.

What do you have in emergency Health & Sickness policies for those Patriots who want to visit Iraq?

Thanks Travelle

Posted by: Pierre Asciutto on June 23, 2006 at 1:16 AM | PERMALINK

Steve White wrote, North Korea is China's lapdog...

Evidence?

Posted by: anonymous on June 23, 2006 at 3:37 AM | PERMALINK

Again:

NKor might have a missile capable of reaching the US.

And they might have nukes.

What they don't have is a missile capable of reachin g the US carrying their nukes.

Posted by: mcdruid on June 23, 2006 at 5:20 AM | PERMALINK

The move from liquid fueled to solid fueled was never a transition that even the Russians ever fully made.

Posted by: mcdruid on June 23, 2006 at 5:28 AM | PERMALINK

Well, the V-2 did, in fact, serve the Germans very well. It did not win them the war, but tens of thousands of civilians were killed.

No, they weren't. Each V-2 killed about two people. It was militarily ineffective and tremendously costly. It didn't help them stave off defeat.

Posted by: ajay on June 23, 2006 at 5:37 AM | PERMALINK

anonymous: Evidence?

Steve White wants it to be so.

Sorta like Bush, Cheney, et al. wanted Iraq to have WMDs, and that mere desire was evidence that they did.

Posted by: Advocate for God on June 23, 2006 at 9:52 AM | PERMALINK

Yes, but what if Kim's planning a run for the Ansari X-Prize?

Posted by: BruceR on June 23, 2006 at 10:42 AM | PERMALINK

Why not knock it out of the sky? It's not because of diplomacy or because it's the wrong thing to do. It is because the missile defense "system", in spite of the many dozens of billions, DOES NOT WORK!

Posted by: Richard on June 23, 2006 at 10:11 PM | PERMALINK

Why not knock it out of the sky? It's not because of diplomacy or because it's the wrong thing to do. It is because the missile defense "system", in spite of the many dozens of billions, DOES NOT WORK!

Posted by: Richard on June 23, 2006 at 10:20 PM | PERMALINK
Well, the V-2 did, in fact, serve the Germans very well. It did not win them the war, but tens of thousands of civilians were killed.
More people died building V-2s than were killed by them landing. The Germans used slave labor to build them, killing more of their own slave-workers in the process than the intended victims. Posted by: Peter on June 24, 2006 at 12:57 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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