Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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July 27, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

AL-QAEDA JOINS IN....Juan Cole writes:

The Israeli occupation of Jerusalem has long been an al Qaeda bugbear. It sent Richard Reid to case El Al, Israeli airlines. It hit Israeli tourists in Mombasa and the Sinai. But Bin Laden always avoided investing in an area where there was already an active insurgency. He also could not join in with heretical Shiites like Hizbulah.

Today, al-Qaeda's #2 announced a change of course:

Ayman al-Zawahiri warned that al-Qaida would not stand "idly by, humiliated", as Israeli "shells burn our brothers".

....He said that the weapons being used by the Israelis were from the "crusader coalition" and added that "every participant will pay the price".

Zawahiri, wearing a grey robe and white turban, and speaking in front of a picture of the World Trade Centre on fire, said al-Qaida now saw "all the world as a battlefield open in front of us".

....A new audio or video message from Bin Laden about Lebanon and Gaza is expected to emerge in the coming days, according to IntelCenter, a US-based independent group that provides counterterrorism information to the US government and media.

Worse and worse.

Kevin Drum 11:47 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (150)

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Comments

You think it's a big surprise that terrorist "brothers" stand together?

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 11:51 AM | PERMALINK

World War III, anyone?

Posted by: Global Citizen on July 27, 2006 at 11:51 AM | PERMALINK

Welcome to the real world, Global Citizen.

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 11:57 AM | PERMALINK

and speaking in front of a picture of the World Trade Centre on fire,

Words cannot express how obscene and contemptible that is.

Posted by: Stefan on July 27, 2006 at 11:57 AM | PERMALINK

AL-QAEDA JOINS IN

This is a GOOD thing. This means all of the terrorists who hate America and Israel will be racing to Lebanon. Then Israel can kill them all at one time and then the world will be rid of all of the terrorists. How can you be against that?

Posted by: Al on July 27, 2006 at 11:57 AM | PERMALINK

"You think it's a big surprise that terrorist "brothers" stand together?"

It's comments like that that really scare me, because it reveals how little critical and careful thinking goes on in Republican circles.

As Cole points out, al Qaeda in the past wanted nothing to do with Shiites, because they consider them heretics. But now they're willing to pitch in to help out Hizbullah.

It don't look good, boys and girls. And with foreign policy neophytes running the show - i.e., people who just toss around the term "terrorist" without thinking carefully about the importance of crafting strategies to deal with various branches of fundamentalist jihadis - we're just asking for more trouble.

Posted by: Wonderin on July 27, 2006 at 11:58 AM | PERMALINK

....He said that the weapons being used by the Israelis were from the "crusader coalition" and added that "every participant will pay the price".

Actually, Alan Dershowitz could write a brief for al-Zawahiri. al-Zawahiri has give the United States a "clear warning." For now on, no American is an "innocent civilian."

Posted by: Thinker on July 27, 2006 at 12:05 PM | PERMALINK

But is this possibly just "lip service" as a way of keeping al-Qaida in the limelight during a time that a "sister" organization is getting the world's attention??

Posted by: pencarrow on July 27, 2006 at 12:05 PM | PERMALINK

Honestly, this seems like an incredibly stupid move on Al Qaeda's part. This can only ratchet up support in the west for Israel.

Posted by: RP on July 27, 2006 at 12:06 PM | PERMALINK

Although, on second thought, if Al Qaeda's goal is to increase conflict between the west and Islam, I guess it makes sense.

Posted by: RP on July 27, 2006 at 12:09 PM | PERMALINK

But is this possibly just "lip service" as a way of keeping al-Qaida in the limelight during a time that a "sister" organization is getting the world's attention??

A little bit, yes. Al Qaeda doesn't have nearly the firepower, financing and potential global reach of Hezbollah -- bin Laden must look at Hezbollah's thousands of rockets and weep bitter tears of envy. Right now Hezbollah is engaging Israel, and by proxy America, in battle in a way al Qaeda could only dream of. This is their play to get back in the news.

Posted by: Stefan on July 27, 2006 at 12:10 PM | PERMALINK

There not the first to try and lump all together as WW3: http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/672

Posted by: leon on July 27, 2006 at 12:10 PM | PERMALINK

This is all part of Bush's brilliant plant to rid the world of Evil and remake the Middle East. How can you liberals be against our President's Master Plan to rid the world of Evil and install a Wal-Mart on every corner?

Posted by: WinGnUT on July 27, 2006 at 12:10 PM | PERMALINK

Hope we're not peaking too early. This was supposed to generate enough resentment in the ME to spur some sort of attack in the US around Sept, just in time to re-elect a repub majority in Nov for "keeping us safe" by allowing attacks on our soil.

But if things spin out of control too soon, the repub bounce might fall back before the elections and the dems might win. Sure hope k-k-karl knows what he's doing.

Posted by: G.Kerby on July 27, 2006 at 12:11 PM | PERMALINK

Honestly, this seems like an incredibly stupid move on Al Qaeda's part. This can only ratchet up support in the west for Israel.

Well, it the real, long-term objective is to get a war started between judeo-christians and islamists, we may already be sucked in - and totally screwed.

Posted by: Global Citizen on July 27, 2006 at 12:11 PM | PERMALINK

You think it's a big surprise that terrorist "brothers" stand together?

I don't think it's a surprise that Bush's apologists like you are stupid and/or dishonest enough to pretend that "terrorists" are some kind of monolithic entity with a common agenda, Charlie, nor to ignore the obvious failings of Bush's so-called "war on terror."

Posted by: Gregory on July 27, 2006 at 12:16 PM | PERMALINK


DHOUGMAS: You think it's a big surprise that terrorist "brothers" stand together?

Where exactly in Kevin's remarks or even in the linked stories themselves do you see anyone expressing "big surprise"? Kevin isn't telling us he is surprised about this matter; he's telling us he is unhappy it.

Do you work from a list of prepared questions and then just wait for the most tangentially related issue to appear so that you can toss it out there as a frame for discussion?


Posted by: jayarbee on July 27, 2006 at 12:17 PM | PERMALINK

Well, it the real, long-term objective is to get a war started between judeo-christians and islamists, we may already be sucked in - and totally screwed.

Given the rhetoric from the islamist side, can this really be avoided over the longer term?

Posted by: pencarrow on July 27, 2006 at 12:17 PM | PERMALINK
As Cole points out, al Qaeda in the past wanted nothing to do with Shiites, because they consider them heretics. But now they're willing to pitch in to help out Hizbullah.

As Al points out, so much the better to suck TERRORISTS into Israel's trap and kill them.

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 12:18 PM | PERMALINK

BRING IT ON !

Oh, wait, that doesn't work.
.

Posted by: VJ on July 27, 2006 at 12:21 PM | PERMALINK

I see Charlie/Cheney/Thomas is making good on his stated intention to use paragraph indentations, a la cmdicely, in order to disguise his inimitable style. Of course, the poor fool doesn't realize -- or care -- that his unique writing style and brand of intellectual dishonesty can hardly be disguised by a mere HTML tag.

Posted by: Gregory on July 27, 2006 at 12:22 PM | PERMALINK

Well, it the real, long-term objective is to get a war started between judeo-christians and islamists, we may already be sucked in - and totally screwed.

And, of course, Bush -- by incompetence, if not design -- and his minions seem to be doing everything they can to accomodate al Qaeda's agenda.

Even if we manage to avoid complete disaster, it's hard to imagine the American public taking Republicans seriously on national defense for at least a generation.

Posted by: Gregory on July 27, 2006 at 12:25 PM | PERMALINK


DHOUGMAS: Welcome to the real world [World War III], Global Citizen.

Welcome to the world of your wildest, bloodiest, fondest, wettest dreams, eh?


Posted by: jayarbee on July 27, 2006 at 12:25 PM | PERMALINK

Gregory, I could be "Al" instead, you know?

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 12:29 PM | PERMALINK

"As Al points out, so much the better to suck TERRORISTS into Israel's trap and kill them."

Hmmm...Hizbullah and al-Qaeda likely believe that the US deserves to be hit hard because of our seemingly uncritical support of Israel.

What if al-Qaeda, in their fervor to help out their "brother terrorists," decides to do something other than actually pitching up in southern Lebanon to engage in an open firefight with the Israelis? Something like, maybe, stepping up any plans or preparations they might have to hit us again?

I'm wonderin': wouldn't it make sense for our intelligence/black ops guys to spend time figuring out ways of fomenting dissension among the Terrorist Brothers? You know, encouraging guys like the al-Qaeda idiots to continue hating the more radical types in Shia Islam?

Posted by: Wonderin on July 27, 2006 at 12:29 PM | PERMALINK

As Al points out, so much the better to suck TERRORISTS into Israel's trap and kill them.

You just have to shake your head an wonder at comments like this.

Still, on the bright side, everyone seems to be working toward the same goal - bring on the Rapture!

Posted by: craigie on July 27, 2006 at 12:31 PM | PERMALINK

The medium-term objective of Al-Qaeda is to radicalize Muslim populations. Their actions only make sense in this context.

Read "Terrorist Strategy 101" (Google it)

Posted by: Virginia Dutch on July 27, 2006 at 12:43 PM | PERMALINK

Remember, everyone, it is entirely possible that neither al-Qaida or Bush are leading their organizations effectively. Or, on the other hand, it is also quite possible that both are doing exactly what they want: that is, neither sees peace as a desirable outcome. Both think that more war will advance their causes

Posted by: JohnN on July 27, 2006 at 12:44 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin, you've got it wrong. The situation isn't getting worse; it's getting better.

From the perspective of the Israeli gov't, Bush administration and Halliburton, escalating the conflict is good. It's probably good for the bottom line of most media companies too. And it may pave the way for some journalists to become the next Wolf Blitzers.

Posted by: Carl Nyberg on July 27, 2006 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINK

Cole's use of the term "occupation" here of course begs the question in dispute. A neutral term would have been "control." But I wouldn't expect anything else from him.

Posted by: larry birnbaum on July 27, 2006 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINK

Gregory: Of course, the poor fool doesn't realize -- or care -- that his unique writing style and brand of intellectual dishonesty can hardly be disguised by a mere HTML tag.

Well, you totally fell for it when I was "Henry" the other day.

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINK
But is this possibly just "lip service" as a way of keeping al-Qaida in the limelight during a time that a "sister" organization is getting the world's attention??

I think its that, and a little bit more; its important to keep in my mind that al-Qaeda is selling a complete vision of the world not unlike the class conflict of Marxist vision, that attempts to encompasses and explains everything in the world as part of one central defining conflict, and identify al-Qaeda with one side (the "good" side) of that conflict.

So, clearly, anything that can be sold as being part of the global conflict of "Islam vs. the Zionist and Crusaders" will be to advance that vision, and al-Qaeda will always been on the side opposing the "Zionists and Crusaders".

Posted by: cmdicely on July 27, 2006 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINK

Honestly, this seems like an incredibly stupid move on Al Qaeda's part. This can only ratchet up support in the west for Israel.

Given that one of their stated goals is to increase conflict between the Muslim and Western worlds, increased Western support for Israel, which would be interepreted as an offense by Arabs and/or Muslims worldwide, would actually work to their advantage.


Posted by: Stefan on July 27, 2006 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

Stefan, thanks for explaining the obvious to the people easily manipulated by jingoism by our "leaders".

Posted by: Carl Nyberg on July 27, 2006 at 12:55 PM | PERMALINK

To truly determine someone's propensity for terrorism you need to really piss them off. Assault their sister at a checkpoint, hold their brother in jail without charges, cut down their orchard, level their apartment complex. and on and on. If there is peace, Israel will have no idea who amongst the new crop of young Shiites is prone to radicalism. The current conflict is also aimed at deterimining which militias are willing to put aside sectarian differences to fight Israel and the US.

Eventually all the pan-arab jihadists will be dead and a new breed of docile sheep-like muslims (who only fight amongst themselves with kid gloves) will inhabit the middle east. Put your trust in Ehud Olmert. He knows what he is doing.

Posted by: Al is dead on July 27, 2006 at 12:57 PM | PERMALINK

"Zawahiri, wearing a grey robe and white turban, and speaking in front of a picture of the World Trade Centre on fire, said al-Qaida now saw "all the world as a battlefield open in front of us"."

Okay, Kevin, this guy has been saying the same thing over and over again, so I'll bite, what has changed other than O'l Zawa is now wearing a clean grey robe and is in a studio?

Posted by: sheerahkahn on July 27, 2006 at 12:57 PM | PERMALINK
Although, on second thought, if Al Qaeda's goal is to increase conflict between the west and Islam, I guess it makes sense.

Right. Remember that al-Qaeda's main goal is to take over the Islamic world (which is very big and of which al-Qaeda currently has the support from only a miniscule portion), and that they seek to do so by selling the idea that there is a global struggle for survival between the Crusader/Zionist/Atheist world and Islam, and that al-Qaeda is the best central organizing agency of the Islamic world in that battle.

If you've got a bunch of non-Muslim countries that seem to be advancing the interests of Arab Muslim civilians against the violence created by Israel and Islamists extremists, well, that kind of muddies that vision al-Qaeda is trying to sell; driving the West into more solid support and unquestioning support of Israel is, therefore, in al-Qaeda's strategic interest.

Posted by: cmdicely on July 27, 2006 at 12:57 PM | PERMALINK

I think Stefan's earlier comment is right on, that al qaeda wants to keep themselves "relevant"

billmon says the same thing.

this is like an aging, has-been rock n' roll band (like, say,Kiss) covering a hit single by a hot young group (like, say, Green Day -- OK, I know that's totally absurd, but I'm talking hypothetically here) in a pathetic attempt to cash in on the younger band's sex appeal.

The fact that Zawahiri felt compelled to deliver his latest lecture standing in front of a poster of Al Qaeda's greatest hit, only adds to the atmosphere of retro nostalgia. This ain't an arena band any more.

Posted by: benjoya on July 27, 2006 at 1:01 PM | PERMALINK

Thursday, July 27th, 2006
They Were Once Vikings


Jens Orback, Democracy Minister in the Social Democratic Swedish government:

We must be open and tolerant towards Islam and Muslims because when we become a minority, they will be so towards us.

From The Brussels Journal

hat tip to Karen

-- Oak Leaf

Posted by: rdw on July 27, 2006 at 1:02 PM | PERMALINK

"Put your trust in Ehud Olmert. He knows what he is doing."

I'm pro-Israeli, but can I get a second option other than this guy?

Posted by: sheerahkahn on July 27, 2006 at 1:04 PM | PERMALINK

al Qaeda in the past wanted nothing to do with Shiites, because they consider them heretics. But now they're willing to pitch in to help out Hizbullah.

Bush is a uniter, not a divider. Freedom is on the march.

Posted by: Disputo on July 27, 2006 at 1:16 PM | PERMALINK

What bothers me the most is the political timing of all of this. It's hard to imagine the initial "whoopsie" IDF rocket that killed a family on the Gaza beach, which triggered Hamas' reprisal, and then the rest of events spinning out of control -- was timed in any particular way.

But a new al Q tape proclaiming Israel now as the central front in the GWoT seems to play directly into the Bush and the GOP's hands in a way that feels extremely creepy and demoralizing.

The only way to even begin to get a handle on these situations is to view them separately. Hamas, Hezbollah, al Qaeda all have different agendas with different histories and sets of grievances which are best addressed locally. Strategically, the best approach is to divide them, exploit their differences, set them against each other.

If the analysis becomes "they're all jihadis with a global ideology" the response shorts out to "bomb them all into oblivion." That not only produces counterproductive tactical results (e.g. conflating southern Lebanon with Hezbollah), it also produces easily understood campaign commercials. Moral clarity = tactical failures.

I can't help wondering just how much Zawahiri is aware of this and is attempting to provoke this very kind of united domestic response. Not saying he's reading the Cook Report or anything, but clearly American hardliners in power serves his long-term agenda.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on July 27, 2006 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

Freedom is on the march.
Which way did it go?

Posted by: q on July 27, 2006 at 1:32 PM | PERMALINK

Al-Qaeda knows how weak the GOP really is in preventing terror attacks and addressing the root causes of terrorism. After all, bin Laden and Zawahiri are still floating around free - five years after 9-11. With Bush giving unsolicited back rubs to women, chomping and swearing with his mouth full of food and giving the green light to Israels state-sponsored terrorism, bin Laden and Zawahiri know what a great recruitment tool for world-wide jihad Bush is. The Dems need to expect a lot more videos from these two before November. The last thing al-Qaeda wants is Bush getting impeached like he deserves.

Posted by: Stephen Kriz on July 27, 2006 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK
The only way to even begin to get a handle on these situations is to view them separately. Hamas, Hezbollah, al Qaeda all have different agendas with different histories and sets of grievances which are best addressed locally. Strategically, the best approach is to divide them, exploit their differences, set them against each other.

I think you left out the key group: Muslim civilian populations. They have their own interests, and they thing is to divide them from those of all the terror groups.

Dividing the terror groups against each other, of course, may redirect some of the harm to innocents to fall more squarely on the Muslim populations rather than the West, but doesn't deal with the fundamental problem.

Posted by: cmdicely on July 27, 2006 at 1:39 PM | PERMALINK
Freedom is on the march.

Which way did it go?

I think Israel bombed it when it was trying to flee the war in Lebanon.

Posted by: cmdicely on July 27, 2006 at 1:40 PM | PERMALINK

The Bin Laden gang isn't going to fight in Lebanon. Taking on real troops in a real battle isn't their style. The specialize in surprising soft targets. No, they will try to make themselves heard someplace else. Someplace soft. Maybe Al's house.

Posted by: Ron Byers on July 27, 2006 at 1:51 PM | PERMALINK

Extremely poignant editorial in Haaretz
I just got in email from a European friend.

(Wonderin', I'll have a rsponse to you sometime today.)

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/742762.html

I'd post the entire text, but don't want to
annoy Kevin with a potential copyright issue.

cmdicely:

Well-taken. I certainly didn't mean provoking a bloodbath among their supporters. I just meant to underline the general principle that divided enemies are better than a united one.

Certainly the idea is to pry the ideologists and their hardcore followers from the Arab public who they exploit.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on July 27, 2006 at 1:53 PM | PERMALINK

So, one divide seems to be between those who see all Islamic terrorists as linked and those who see them as separate. Consider these attacks:

-- al Qaeda -- unprovoked attacks on the US, the UK, Bali, Spain, etc.
-- Hezbollah -- unprovoked attacks on the US and Israel,
-- Hamas -- unprovoked attacks on Israel,
-- DC snipers Muhammed and Malvo -- unprovoked attacks against the US

I don't claim to know the exact connection, but IMHO it's more than mere coincidence that these unprovoked terrorist attacks were carried out by Muslims.

Posted by: ex-liberal on July 27, 2006 at 1:57 PM | PERMALINK

-- Hitler -- unprovoked attacks on Poland, France, UK, etc.
-- Timothy McVeigh -- unprovoked attack on the US
-- Soviet Union -- unprovoked attacks on Afghanistan
-- Spanish conquistadors -- unprovoked attacks on the South American natives

I don't claim to know the exact connection, but IMHO it's more than mere coincidence that these unprovoked terrorist attacks were carried out by White guys.

Posted by: trex on July 27, 2006 at 2:04 PM | PERMALINK

Consider these attacks:

-- United States -- unprovoked attack on Iraq
-- Serbia -- unprovoked attack on Bosnia and Kosovo.
-- Russia -- unprovoked attacks on Chechnya.

I don't claim to know the exact connection, but IMHO it's more than mere coincidence that these unprovoked terrorist attacks were carried out by Christians against Muslims.


Posted by: Stefan on July 27, 2006 at 2:05 PM | PERMALINK

ex-lib, let me guess, you're a political science professor. or undersecretary of defense.

Posted by: benjoya on July 27, 2006 at 2:06 PM | PERMALINK


EX-LIBERAL: it's more than mere coincidence that these unprovoked terrorist attacks were carried out by Muslims.

None of the attacks you listed were unprovoked.


Posted by: jayarbee on July 27, 2006 at 2:07 PM | PERMALINK

"Freedom is on the march"

Illegal military occupation by RightWing governments is on the march.
.

Posted by: VJ on July 27, 2006 at 2:07 PM | PERMALINK

I don't claim to know the exact connection, but IMHO it's more than mere coincidence that these unprovoked terrorist attacks were carried out by Muslims.

This word you keep using, "coincidence," I do not think it means what you think it means.

Posted by: Stefan on July 27, 2006 at 2:08 PM | PERMALINK

how about this?

-- creator of the anglican church - married six times, had 2(?) wives beheaded.

Posted by: benjoya on July 27, 2006 at 2:09 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, of course... those were all unprovoked.

Hezbollah wasn't provoked into forming when Israel occupied Lebanon into 1982 to get rid of the PLO. Nope, not at all.

Hamas wasn't provoked into forming by outside forces displacing Palestinians and removing them from their lands and denying them rights, correct?

al-Qaeda wasn't provoked into attacking the US by our heavy-handed policies and staging of troops in sacred lands, right? Or the UK and Spain by their participation in the Iraq war, right?

But don't take this to mean that the US, UK, etc. are all just wrong and deserving of what happened to them. No one deserves to be killed or terrorized. But both sides have committed provocations and violent acts. Pretending otherwise is just willful ignorance.

Oh, and I know you probably don't like the SPLC, but take a look at their domestic terrorism listing for the years 1995-2005:

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=549

Personally, I think Christian and fascist extremists are much more threatening than Muslim extremists... at least, on a day-to-day physical scale. I suppose Muslim extremists are, overall, more dangerous because their actions can potentially destabilize the flow of oil into the developed world, creating major economic problems.

Posted by: Bolo on July 27, 2006 at 2:11 PM | PERMALINK

This means all of the terrorists who hate America and Israel will be racing to Lebanon.

But I thought all the terrorists had been drawn to Iraq ? What happened to the "fly paper" strategy ?

Imagine how much Haliburton will get for rebuilding Lebanon...

Posted by: Stephen on July 27, 2006 at 2:12 PM | PERMALINK

-- creator of the anglican church - married six times, had 2(?) wives beheaded.

Don't discount the threat of Anglicofascism -- even as we speak a network of radical vicars is spreading through the world, drawing in fanatical (yet still quite polite) converts with the promise of a heaven filled with 72 repressed spinster virgins for each man....

Posted by: Stefan on July 27, 2006 at 2:17 PM | PERMALINK

72 repressed spinster virgins for each man....

yuk yuk! good one.

Posted by: benjoya on July 27, 2006 at 2:19 PM | PERMALINK

While our democracy, in the hands of the neocons, moves towards using force to export and expand democracy, those we deem as extremists are using persuasion to democratically assume power. That, in my opinion, is perhaps the epitome of irony. Worse yet, it is an indication that our foreign policy is an unmitigated failure that may well alter the world order for decades.

Read an analysis that discusses the implications of the current U.S. foreign policy and how the neoconservatives have simply leaped over the politics of conflict...here:

www.thoughttheater.com

Posted by: Daniel DiRito on July 27, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

Actually, Alan Dershowitz could write a brief for al-Zawahiri. al-Zawahiri has give the United States a "clear warning." For now on, no American is an "innocent civilian."

Posted by: Thinker on July 27, 2006 at 12:05 PM | PERMALINK

So the 3,000+ who died on 9-11 were what Thinker? Guilty civilians? Enemy combatants who were not entitled to the protections of the Geneva Conventions? Legitimate casualties of al Qaedas war against the US?

Completely off topic, but my first thought while watching al-Zawahiri's video was of the South Park episode where they used prior video messages from him and bin Ladin to denounce the writing style of "Family Guy." : )

Posted by: Chicounsel on July 27, 2006 at 2:31 PM | PERMALINK

Stefan:

And then of course there's the nefarious ... Unitarian Jihad!

The following is the first communique from a group calling itself
Unitarian Jihad. It was sent to me at The Chronicle via an anonymous
spam remailer. I have no idea whether other news organizations have
received this communique, and, if so, why they have not chosen to
print it. Perhaps they fear starting a panic. I feel strongly that the
truth, no matter how alarming, trivial or disgusting, must always be
told. I am pleased to report that the words below are at least not
disgusting:

Greetings to the Imprisoned Citizens of the United States. We are
Unitarian Jihad. There is only God, unless there is more than one God.
The vote of our God subcommittee is 10-8 in favor of one God, with two
abstentions. Brother Flaming Sword of Moderation noted the possibility
of there being no God at all, and his objection was noted with love by
the secretary.

Greetings to the Imprisoned Citizens of the United States! Too long
has your attention been waylaid by the bright baubles of extremist
thought. Too long have fundamentalist yahoos of all religions (except
Buddhism -- 14-5 vote, no abstentions, fundamentalism subcommittee)
made your head hurt. Too long have you been buffeted by angry people
who think that God talks to them. You have a right to your moderation!
You have the power to be calm! We will use the IED of truth to explode
the SUV of dogmatic expression!

People of the United States, why is everyone yelling at you???
Whatever happened to ... you know, everything? Why is the news
dominated by nutballs saying that the Ten Commandments have to be
tattooed inside the eyelids of every American, or that Allah has told
them to kill Americans in order to rid the world of Satan, or that
Yahweh has instructed them to go live wherever they feel like, or that
Shiva thinks bombing mosques is a great idea? Sister Immaculate Dagger
of Peace notes for the record that we mean no disrespect to Jews,
Muslims, Christians or Hindus. Referred back to the committee of the
whole for further discussion.

We are Unitarian Jihad. We are everywhere. We have not been born
again, nor have we sworn a blood oath. We do not think that God cares
what we read, what we eat or whom we sleep with. Brother Neutron Bomb
of Serenity notes for the record that he does not have a moral code
but is nevertheless a good person, and Unexalted Leader Garrote of
Forgiveness stipulates that Brother Neutron Bomb of Serenity is a good
person, and this is to be reflected in the minutes.

Beware! Unless you people shut up and begin acting like grown-ups with
brains enough to understand the difference between political belief
and personal faith, the Unitarian Jihad will begin a series of
terrorist-like actions. We will take over television studios, kidnap
so-called commentators and broadcast calm, well-reasoned discussions
of the issues of the day. We will not try for "balance" by hiring
fruitcakes; we will try for balance by hiring non-ideologues who have
carefully thought through the issues.

We are Unitarian Jihad. We will appear in public places and require
people to shake hands with each other. (Sister Hand Grenade of Love
suggested that we institute a terror regime of mandatory hugging, but
her motion was not formally introduced because of lack of a quorum.)
We will require all lobbyists, spokesmen and campaign managers to
dress like trout in public. Televangelists will be forced to take jobs
as Xerox repair specialists. Demagogues of all stripes will be
required to read Proust out loud in prisons.

We are Unitarian Jihad, and our motto is: "Sincerity is not enough."
We have heard from enough sincere people to last a lifetime already.
Just because you believe it's true doesn't make it true. Just because
your motives are pure doesn't mean you are not doing harm. Get a dog,
or comfort someone in a nursing home, or just feed the birds in the
park. Play basketball. Lighten up. The world is not out to get you,
except in the sense that the world is out to get everyone.

Brother Gatling Gun of Patience notes that he's pretty sure the world
is out to get him because everyone laughs when he says he is a
Unitarian. There were murmurs of assent around the room, and someone
suggested that we buy some Congress members and really stick it to the
Baptists. But this was deemed against Revolutionary Principles, and
Brother Gatling Gun of Patience was remanded to the Sunday Flowers and
Banners committee.

People of the United States! We are Unitarian Jihad! We can strike
without warning. Pockets of reasonableness and harmony will appear as
if from nowhere! Nice people will run the government again! There will
be coffee and cookies in the Gandhi Room after the revolution.
_________________________________________________________________

Startling new underground group spreads lack of panic! Citizens
declare themselves "relatively unafraid" of threats of undeclared
rationality. People can still go to France, terrorist leader says.

Michael row the boat ashore, and then get some of the local kids to
pull the boat onto the dock, and come visit with
jcarroll@sfchronicle.com.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on July 27, 2006 at 2:31 PM | PERMALINK

Oh no, this is perfect!

Now we (they) get the broader war that we (they) always wanted.

P.S. And you silly liberals actually believed that Bin Laden released that tape just before the 2004 election because he wants more of the Bush-meister?! Ha!

Posted by: cramer on July 27, 2006 at 2:35 PM | PERMALINK

Consider these attacks:

-- United States -- unprovoked attack on Iraq


Perpetuating the Muslim lie.


Stefan, and his ilk, are in complete and utter denial of the world they occupy. They have zero ability to view thirty years of chaos, violence and mayhem as a gathering danger to civilization because of their moral relativism and intellectual dishonesty.

If the world community was capable to completely disarm Hezbollah as mandated by SC1559, there would be peace in that area.

If the world community was capable to fully disarm Hamas, there would be peace.

If the world community was fully capable of disarming Israel, the Muslims would destroy the entire country.

Leave the heavy work to the people who do it best and you guys just stay home and debate moral equivalency.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 2:38 PM | PERMALINK

Leave the heavy work to the people who do it best and you guys just stay home and debate moral equivalency.

And by "people who do it best" do you mean 58 year-olds who are too cowardly to join up and do the heavy work and instead sit by their computer all day long eating Cheetoh's and posting psychotic rants to blogs?

Posted by: Jay's conscience on July 27, 2006 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

Hail the Unitarian Jihad! We shall prevail, in a metaphorical, non-belligerent way.

Posted by: benjoya on July 27, 2006 at 2:44 PM | PERMALINK

No, I don't mean me. There are many others, better than myself, that I trust. My brother-in-law is just one.

I would however, NEVER trust you or any of your pathetic compatriots.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 2:44 PM | PERMALINK

Remember, this administration is not in the reality based community; it makes its own reality:

They claimed government is inefficient, they formed DHS, and Hurricane Katrine proves it to be wildly inefficient

They claimed SS won't survive the baby boomers, they run up huge deficits and raid the SS trust fund, and now SS won't survive the baby boomers!

They claimed Al Qaeda was in Iraq, they invaded Iraq, and now Al Qaeda is deeply entrenched!

They claimed all these terrorists were allied against us, they green-lighted Israel's reckless militarism, and now all these terrorists are allied against us.

It is really quite amazing how methodical they are...

Posted by: cramer on July 27, 2006 at 2:46 PM | PERMALINK

yes, trust only bush, jay. he told you that the sauds were out best buds, that saddam had wmds and wouldn't let the inspectors in. you're such a sucker; thank god you're in the minority.

Posted by: benjoya on July 27, 2006 at 2:47 PM | PERMALINK

benjoya, you are in the minority. A recent zogby poll indicated that a minority of Americans self identify as liberal.

I don't trust only GW, I trust conservatism far more than I trust GW (which he is in opposition to on some issues)

I trust the strategy of peace through strength, which was successsfully demonstrated by one of the best Presidents ever in Reagan.

You might want to look in the mirror to see a sucker. Try and divert from Howard Deans talking points.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 2:53 PM | PERMALINK

benjoya:

Bless you, my child unit.

Posted by: Brother Bunker-Buster of Beattitude on July 27, 2006 at 2:55 PM | PERMALINK

Question for Jay:

Why do you think there has been 30 years of chaos in the middle east?

[Hint: Was it maybe because we and the Soviets were arming puppet governments as proxies in an illicit war to control vital energy resources, or maybe the decades of colonial rule before that which artificially partitioned the entire region, or maybe the decade and a half since then when the entire western world proceeded to economically destroy the geographic heart of the middle east. Or maybe it was just Islam, the freedom haters, hatin the freedom, hatin the man with the boot on their chest trying to force feed them freedom, damn ingrates I say...]

Posted by: cramer on July 27, 2006 at 2:56 PM | PERMALINK

Jay's ideology always reduces in the final analysis to anti-Arab racism.

He projects onto them his own implacable hatred and claims that Arab hostility to Israel is entirely non-contingent on the circumstances of the conflict.

It is a classic example of projective identification.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on July 27, 2006 at 3:00 PM | PERMALINK

"[Hint: Was it maybe because we and the Soviets were arming puppet governments as proxies in an illicit war to control vital energy resources, or maybe the decades of colonial rule before that which artificially partitioned the entire region, or maybe the decade and a half since then when the entire western world proceeded to economically destroy the geographic heart of the middle east. Or maybe it was just Islam, the freedom haters, hatin the freedom, hatin the man with the boot on their chest trying to force feed them freedom, damn ingrates I say...]"

Thank you for UBL's talking points. btw, say hi to him for me.

What don't you understand about moral equivalency?

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 3:00 PM | PERMALINK

Jay:

What don't *you* understand about racial supremacy?

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on July 27, 2006 at 3:03 PM | PERMALINK

"He projects onto them his own implacable hatred and claims that Arab hostility to Israel is entirely non-contingent on the circumstances of the conflict."

Try to engage your brain before you spew drivel rmck1.

Please point out my specific references of Arab hatred. Or did you lie?

Please point out my specific examples vindicating Israel of all blame. Or did you lie?

Please point out my specific references of racism. Or did you lie?

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 3:04 PM | PERMALINK

rmck1, quit bringing race into this. Otherwise I will have to surmise that you are a racist.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 3:06 PM | PERMALINK

I trust the strategy of peace through strength, which was successsfully demonstrated by one of the best Presidents ever in Reagan.

like the way he cut 'n' run in lebanon? that was inspirational.

Posted by: benjoya on July 27, 2006 at 3:17 PM | PERMALINK

yes, i'm a sucker for beliving that iraq is a disaster. i'm a sucker for having known it waould be a disaster, and i'm a sucker for not believing that things are getting better there every day.

Posted by: benjoya on July 27, 2006 at 3:20 PM | PERMALINK

Jay:

You didn't say any of this *overtly*, of course. And, to be honest, I don't think you're a conscious racist at all of the watcher stripe.

I was being provocative -- partly yanking your chain, but parly not.

Because the *implications* of what you say about so-called "moral equivalency" are deeply troubling. You believe that Israel is vastly morally superior to their Arab neighbors. And, following from that -- any explanation of the conflict that takes into account circumstances that the Palestinians and south Lebanese have lived through with Israel over the years are completely irrelevant. In fact, in your view, even bringing them up acts as being a mouthpiece for Osama bin Laden.

Now, this view is at least moral supremecist if not out-and-out racial supremecist.

And you really need to wrestle with the implications.

Because the moral equivalence that you so scourge is at the foundation of Judeo-Christian ethics.

We are all equal -- Arab and Jew alike -- in the eyes of our Creator.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on July 27, 2006 at 3:21 PM | PERMALINK

"like the way he cut 'n' run in lebanon? that was inspirational"

What do you have against pulling out of countries that a President doesn't believe we should be in?


"yes, i'm a sucker for beliving that iraq is a disaster. i'm a sucker for having known it waould be a disaster, and i'm a sucker for not believing that things are getting better there every day."

And you think Iraq was the model of decency before the war?

It shouldnt have to be said that the people of Iraq are living freer than they ever have, able to voice opinions and to take part in activities that they dared not do under Saddam for fear of losing their lives, and that they are hopeful about their future. This is demonstrated by Brookings Institutions latest Iraq Index report, released June 29, which showed 64% of Iraqis thought that the country was headed in the right direction, and 77% said that removing Saddam Hussein was the right thing to do. The same report revealed that, on an index of political freedom for countries in the Middle East, Iraq now ranks fourth (below Israel, Lebanon, and Morocco).

That's just one example of some of the progress.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 3:25 PM | PERMALINK

Please point out my specific references of Arab hatred. Or did you lie?

I have too many examples to post here: is there a PO Box where I can send the rest?

Of course we all remember your genocidal remark a few days back about killing a billion Muslims being a "good day," but that's too easy. Here's two-fer that was actually posted back to back in one thread:


So Sebastian criticized Israel, Russia, China, Western Europe and the US. Interesting. It's a mystery that he's not criticizing the cockroaches who are actually responsible for the death and destruction that has plagued the entire civilized world for the past four decades.

Just another example of an extreme muslim pawn.

Posted by: Jay on July 17, 2006 at 10:47 AM | PERMALINK

Oh and I love this statement:

"..further radicalize the Arab world"

Is that possible?

Posted by: Jay on July 17, 2006 at 10:49 AM | PERMALINK

Posted by: trex on July 27, 2006 at 3:26 PM | PERMALINK

trex:

Good saves. I was attempting to get Jay to hear my argument, so I backed off the direct accusation of racism.

But there have certainly been many examples of gutter epithets applied to Arabs or equating all Arabs/Muslims with terrorists over the months.

I guess I'm attempting to do the ol' Socratic dialogue thang ...

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on July 27, 2006 at 3:33 PM | PERMALINK

"You believe that Israel is vastly morally superior to their Arab neighbors"

There is not one fiber in my body that believes this. Quit with the conjecture.


"Now, this view is at least moral supremecist if not out-and-out racial supremecist"

Again NOT my view.

The elements that represent extreme Islam are by far the minority of the Arab community. Israel enjoys very good relationships with the majority of that community. So it needs to be said again:

If the world community was capable to completely disarm Hezbollah as mandated by SC1559, there would be peace in that area.

If the world community was capable to fully disarm Hamas, there would be peace.

If the world community was fully capable of disarming Israel, the Muslims would destroy the entire country.


:

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 3:40 PM | PERMALINK

Seems pretty sad that jay admits that UBL has a better grasp of history then he does. But by all means, we should still listen to Jay. As Bush has proven, facts mean nothing; when you are the most powerful nation on earth, you make your own reality--which includes the power to rewrite history.

Look, jay, you right-wing douchebag, nobody supports the tactics that UBL and his ilk have adopted, but that doesn't mean that we can't and shouldn't appreciate his underlying complaints--most of which are historically accurate. Isn't there some saying about knowing your enemy? I don't recall the exact quote, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't: "One must remain willfully ignorant of who and what you are fighting."

Posted by: cramer on July 27, 2006 at 3:40 PM | PERMALINK

One last wow from Jay:

"Israel enjoys very good relationships with most of [the muslim] community"

Really? Perhaps if you insert "All evidence to the contrary..."

Posted by: cramer on July 27, 2006 at 3:43 PM | PERMALINK

"What if the last muslim is killed but even then the second coming does not occur"

Still a good day.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_07/009221.php#926565

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 3:44 PM | PERMALINK

"...but that doesn't mean that we can't and shouldn't appreciate his underlying complaints--most of which are historically accurate."

Not really, it fails to acknowledge the complete and utter disregard the "leaders" of the Arab world have had for their very own people.

You must be pretty thick if you don't understand the enemy by now cramer.

Go to bed.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 3:44 PM | PERMALINK

"It's a mystery that he's not criticizing the cockroaches who are actually responsible for the death and destruction that has plagued the entire civilized world for the past four decades."
That's exactly who is responsible, the "cockroaches" tha represtn extreme Islam. And that's only being offensive to cockroaches.

"..further radicalize the Arab world"

Is that possible?


"What if the last muslim is killed but even then the second coming does not occur"

Still a good day.

Well I guess I do need to stop with the sarcastic humor considering NONE of you have a sense of humor. (That last one is pretty funny though)

It shouldnt have to be said that Iraqs economy is growing at a torrid rate, and is only expected to speed up in the near future. According to a State Department report, Iraqs 2005 GDP was 130% what it was in 2002 under Saddam (not only did it rise 2.6% in the last year, but it is expected to climb 10% in the coming year), and unemployment is 50% lower than it was in June 2003. Annual oil export revenues have increased over 300% from the prewar level of $200 million. More than 33,000 new businesses have been registered in Iraq since the fall of Saddam, and per capita income is now 240% higher than the $500 it was before the war. There are more than 5 million cell-phone subscribers now, as compared to virtually none under Saddam, and the country now has more than 2,000 Internet cafesas well as a free press. USAID is also helping train Iraqis to become competitive in the job market, such as a recently-held carpentry workshop for young adults which focused on fostering leadership, independence and financial stability. The shops profits are used to purchase sports equipment, secondary school supplies, and other community-related items.

Just FYI.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 3:51 PM | PERMALINK

Jay, are you employed?

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 3:55 PM | PERMALINK

Jay, are you employed?

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 3:56 PM | PERMALINK

from the linked article: Osama bin Laden's deputy issued a worldwide call today for Muslims to rise up in holy war against Israel and join the fighting in Lebanon and Gaza, until Islam reigns from "Spain to Iraq".

This isn't really new. They have always wanted Spain and Israel. The only issue has been whom they would accept as allies. Like every other known force, they'll accept anybody who is effective, at least as an expedient.

Posted by: republicrat on July 27, 2006 at 3:57 PM | PERMALINK

The shops profits are used to purchase sports equipment, secondary school supplies, and other community-related items.

And paint schools, I know, we've heard.

From the lads over at the Brookings Institution who are following Iraq more closely than anyone, June 16, 2006:

Violence on the whole is as bad as ever. Sectarian strife is worse than ever. The economy has slowly come back to prewar levels for the most part, but is now treading water. As a result, optimism has waned. According to an International Republican Institute poll conducted in late March, more than 75 percent of Iraqis consider the security environment to be poor and the economy poor or mediocre.
Posted by: trex on July 27, 2006 at 4:01 PM | PERMALINK

Well I guess I do need to stop with the sarcastic humor considering NONE of you have a sense of humor.

I know, calling Muslims filthy cockroaches and wishing every last one of them dead is the height of hilarity yet at the same time displays your keen and genuine respect for them.

Whoo hoo, that's some funny shit!

Posted by: trex on July 27, 2006 at 4:06 PM | PERMALINK

It shouldnt have to be said that electrical power generation and distribution is currently at a level 900% higher than it was in May 2003 (4,500 megawatts vs. just 500 three years ago), and the Army has been providing excellent training to Iraqis to enable them to operate and maintain the nations power systems. Demand for electricity in Iraq has doubled, and the USs goal is to reach 6,000 megawatts of output (over 150% of the pre-war level).

It shouldnt have to be said that Iraqis are now receiving excellentand accessiblemedical care courtesy of the US military. Nearly 100% of Iraqi children have been vaccinated, and the military is conducting regular clinics, such as a dental care clinic recently held by 101st Airborne and Army Special Forces medical personnel in the city of Amu Shabi. In another instance, a group of Army engineers also acted to save the lives of a number of residents of a small Iraqi village by sending tissue samples of a stray dog which had bitten five villagers (including a child) to the Veterinary Corps in Landstuhl, Germany to see if the dog had rabies. It did turn out to be rabid, and the soldiers were able to provide appropriate medical care to the bitten villagers.

"Brookings Institution who are following Iraq more closely than anyone"

That's a lie.

My quotes are from people on the ground in Iraq.

The Brookings Institute is a left leaning group based in Washington.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 4:09 PM | PERMALINK

yeah, that genocide humor must go over big at the 7-11 parking lot.

Posted by: benjoya on July 27, 2006 at 4:09 PM | PERMALINK

"...calling Muslims filthy cockroaches"

I called the jihadist Muslims cockroaches.

It's that intellectual dishonesty thing that you are so good at that completely blinds you.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 4:11 PM | PERMALINK

"Stefan, and his ilk, are in complete and utter denial of the world they occupy. They have zero ability to view thirty years of chaos, violence and mayhem as a gathering danger to civilization because of their moral relativism and intellectual dishonesty"

This includes you trex and benjy.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 4:18 PM | PERMALINK

Jay, you don't have a job, do you?

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 4:19 PM | PERMALINK

Thomas

you're not worthy of my attention.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 4:21 PM | PERMALINK


JAY: My quotes are from people on the ground in Iraq.

What quotes? Your comment included no quotes that I could discern, nor even a citation, much less a link.


Posted by: jayarbee on July 27, 2006 at 4:22 PM | PERMALINK

Jay spews:

No, I don't mean me. There are many others, better than myself, that I trust. My brother-in-law is just one.

Yes, of course there are many others to die to satisfy the coward Jay's racist bloodlust. Nothing new there.

Posted by: Disputo on July 27, 2006 at 4:23 PM | PERMALINK

I'm sorry about your being unemployable, Jay. More sorry than I can say.

Did the pink sheet signed by the mean old liberal say you were incompetent, Jay? Did the nasty partisan boss--maybe even a Muslim!--say you were unethical, inept, unable to adjust to the modern work world, bereft of skills, impossible for others to work with?

That must have hurt, Jay. You must have felt a lot of shame. We understand why you're angry. But you're only hurting yourself.

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 4:25 PM | PERMALINK

you're not worthy of my attention.

LMAO! I just love how cud-chewing cowards like Jay keep taking there time to point out over and over again how none of us are worth their time or attention.

Kevin, it is way past time you instituted some filters to cull out the trolls.

Posted by: Disputo on July 27, 2006 at 4:26 PM | PERMALINK

Jay:

> "You believe that Israel is vastly morally
> superior to their Arab neighbors"

> There is not one fiber in my body that believes this.
> Quit with the conjecture.

Jay -- it's the direct implication of what you say below.

> "Now, this view is at least moral supremecist
> if not out-and-out racial supremecist"

> Again NOT my view.

Unfortunately Jay -- it certainly appears to be by any fair-
minded observer. To be fair, you may not be conscious of this.
You may have simply not bothered to think through the implications
of what you say, and are laboring under cognitive dissonance.

> The elements that represent extreme Islam are by far
> the minority of the Arab community.

And there is also a minority of the Iraeli community -- most of them
in the settlements -- who are virulently anti-Arab and want all of
so-called Greater Israel for themselves and their people. There are
extremists in both camps, Jay. Yitzak Rabin was assassinated by
a Zionist irredentist and follower of an openly racist rabbi.

> Israel enjoys very good relationships with the
> majority of that community.

That is true. Israel grants full citizenship to Arabs, so it
can't be said that Israel *as a whole* is a racist society.

> So it needs to be said again:

> If the world community was capable to completely disarm Hezbollah
> as mandated by SC1559, there would be peace in that area.

> If the world community was capable to fully
> disarm Hamas, there would be peace.

> If the world community was fully capable of disarming
> Israel, the Muslims would destroy the entire country.

And you collapse in such utter self-contradiction that only a firewall
of cognitive dissonance could allow you to write this line in the same
post in which you are protesting your complete lack of racial animus.

So the Israelis would gladly let the Arabs live in peace -- but the
Muslims would completely destroy Israel if the shoe was reversed.

If both sides have their share of haters and gleeful murderers,
then the only thing which explains that is racism, Jay.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on July 27, 2006 at 4:26 PM | PERMALINK

Thomas,

My guess is that Jay is living off the dole in prison. People with his kind of vile bile are usually either made or end up there.

Posted by: Disputo on July 27, 2006 at 4:28 PM | PERMALINK

The link.

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/health.html

"Yes, of course there are many others to die to satisfy the coward Jay's racist bloodlust. Nothing new there."

Intellectual dishonesty in it's highest form.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 4:28 PM | PERMALINK

No, Disputo, I suspect Jay has escaped prison only because he has escaped the notice of anyone who matters. He rarely leaves his filthy house since he was fired from his job several years ago. The internets are his only connection to other people, except for sporadic late-night trips to the convenience store, where he replenishes his supply of beer and frozen burritos. His wife left him long ago, his kids avoid him, the neighbors rarely talk to him and his friends don't come around anymore.

There's nothing in his life but the whirling vortex of rage that surrounds him. Somebody has to be blamed for him being such a loser. It can't be him.

Is that about right, Jay?

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 4:34 PM | PERMALINK

The Brookings Institute is a left leaning group based in Washington.

If that's true, then why are you quoting their statistics on infrastructure in Iraq???

Or do your "sources on the ground" *cough* tbrosz-wannabe *cough* regularly report in to you with figures for megawatt hours of electricity generated and and GDP and employment figures?

Look, if you can't see what even the Iraqi government sees -- that more and more people are dying every day in Iraq and the security situation is worsening by orders of magnitude even as more Iraqi security forces are added -- then you're delusional beyond help.

As for me, I'll always remember you as the guy who said that the killing of one billion Muslims not bringing forth the Rapture is "still a good day."

Oh, and the genodical stuff you say about us needing to really unleash our military firepower in Iraq like we never have until enough people die that violence stops. I'll remember that about you too. I guess tens of thousands dead so far from every ethnic group is not enough for you.

Oh that's right, the magic number is one billion.

Posted by: trex on July 27, 2006 at 4:35 PM | PERMALINK

YOU are the racist. I have NOT implied racism at all.

"So the Israelis would gladly let the Arabs live in peace -- but the
Muslims would completely destroy Israel if the shoe was reversed."

Intellectual dishonesty AGAIN. I said that Hezbollah and Hamas would begin to destroy Israel. Your dishonesty is when you imply that to mean all Muslims.

I have never excused Israel, they have made many mistakes, but the fact remains that Israel is willing to compromise and live in peace. Can you say the same for the minority of extreme Islamists?

For the record, I could not care less what skin color one has or what creed or ethnicity they are. You are the one that keeps inferring racism, which is sad and people like that are partly responsible for perpetuating this madness.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 4:36 PM | PERMALINK

Trex, Jay went on to say that the death of every single Muslim on earth is "a good day." But he was just joshin'!

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 4:37 PM | PERMALINK

Jay cuts and pastes:

"Intellectual dishonesty in it's highest form."

Non sequitur in its highest form.

Please, Jay, can I be not worthy of your attention too?

Posted by: Disputo on July 27, 2006 at 4:39 PM | PERMALINK

"I guess tens of thousands dead so far from every ethnic group is not enough for you."

If you care sooooo much for life, why aren't you in the Darfur helping? Or are you a liar and hypocrite?


"No, Disputo, I suspect Jay has escaped prison only because he has escaped the notice of anyone who matters. He rarely leaves his filthy house since he was fired from his job several years ago. The internets are his only connection to other people, except for sporadic late-night trips to the convenience store, where he replenishes his supply of beer and frozen burritos. His wife left him long ago, his kids avoid him, the neighbors rarely talk to him and his friends don't come around anymore."

Now is this any example of trying to win the hearts and minds of those that disagree with the pathetic liberal position?

In fact it was stated so clearly, one has to wonder what trailer park Thomas lives in.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 4:45 PM | PERMALINK

Here's another good one, proving that Jay does NOT distinguish between Muslims and "jihadist" Muslims as he doth protest too much:

You back the horse you want loser. I'll back mine. Israel has as much right to their land as any country on this planet has to theirs. You are a muslim brainwashed bitch pawn.

Have a nice day.

Excellent analysis Real Liberal.

Posted by: Jay on July 16, 2006 at 2:39 PM | PERMALINK http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_07/009179.php#921759

I don't see any distinctions about "jihadist" in there, do you?

Posted by: trex on July 27, 2006 at 4:47 PM | PERMALINK


JAY: The link.

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/health.html


Except for some talk about vaccinations, the link you provided in no way substantiates the assertions you made in this post at 4:09 PM. There is nothing about the U.S. Army, nor dog bites, and not a word about improvements in electrical power. So, again, just what the hell are you claiming to "quote"?


Posted by: jayarbee on July 27, 2006 at 4:47 PM | PERMALINK

"....anyone who matters."

Very simply, this is the repeated mistake of the left. Deeming that they are the ones who matter.

You don't.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 4:48 PM | PERMALINK

Here's another ugly one:

maunga, mulsim bitch. Having knowledge, as you profess Sallem to have, hardly means that it is balanced or right.

You're a confused puppet of the cockroaches that illegally occupy the land of Israel. The civilized community, that doesn't include you, needs to eliminate the cockroach infestation that has plagued Israel and most of the middle east. Then, maybe the destruction will cease.

Posted by: Jay on July 16, 2006 at 6:05 PM | PERMALINK http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_07/009179.php#921859

Hmmm, the "cockroach infestation that has plagued Israel" and "most" of the Middle East that "needs to be eliminated."

Eliminationist rhetoric -- all in good fun, I'm sure.

Posted by: trex on July 27, 2006 at 4:55 PM | PERMALINK

Now is this any example of trying to win the hearts and minds of those that disagree with the pathetic liberal position?

We don't want your heart or your mind, Jay. We just want you to stay away from our pre-teen daughters.

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 4:55 PM | PERMALINK

I am definitely over estimating this audiences intelligence.

From now on I will speak more to the level of Third graders. Will that suffice?

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 4:59 PM | PERMALINK

These quotes Trex is posting do not speak well of you, Jay. Nowhere in these remarks are you differentiating between jihadists and Muslims in general. We are extremely disappointed in you.

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 5:01 PM | PERMALINK

Here's a third grade problem solving skill:

cockroaches are to jihadists as liberals are to?

Answer: bottom feeding scum.

My apologies to cockroaches.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 5:05 PM | PERMALINK

Jay, Jay, Jay. None of this is helping to get you a job, a friend or a woman. Why don't you step away from the computer for a little while and think about how you might improve your life so that you don't have to blame others for your many failures?

Posted by: Thomas on July 27, 2006 at 5:06 PM | PERMALINK

I'm waiting for the whirling dervish logic of Jay to argue that "cockroach" is a term of endearment.

Posted by: Disputo on July 27, 2006 at 5:06 PM | PERMALINK

I trust the strategy of peace through strength, which was successsfully demonstrated by one of the best Presidents ever in Reagan.

By "peace through strength" do you mean how he cut and ran when the Marines were slaughtered in Beirut in 1982?

Posted by: Stefan on July 27, 2006 at 5:11 PM | PERMALINK

I trust the strategy of peace through strength, which was successsfully demonstrated by one of the best Presidents ever in Reagan.

By "peace through strength" do you mean how Reagan cut and ran when the Marines were bombed in Beirut in 1982?

Posted by: Stefan on July 27, 2006 at 5:15 PM | PERMALINK

Well that's weird -- it posted my first draft and my second...

Posted by: Stefan on July 27, 2006 at 5:17 PM | PERMALINK

"By "peace through strength" do you mean how Reagan cut and ran when the Marines were bombed in Beirut in 1982?"

Why would you be opposed to a President leaving a country he felt we should not be in?

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 5:19 PM | PERMALINK


Jay, won't you please tell us where you got those "on the ground" quotes about how wonderful life is in Iraq? You wouldn't be embarrassed about the source, would you?


Posted by: jayarbee on July 27, 2006 at 5:20 PM | PERMALINK

Jay:

> YOU are the racist. I have NOT implied racism at all.

Well, that's just childish projection. I'm not the sort of poster
who attracts those kinds of accusations, even from my most bitter
opponents. You, OTOH, seem to be in a roundhouse war with the regulars
who are attempting to get you to acknowledge your own racial rhetoric.

Jay, when the criticism's directed one way, you say Israel. When
it's direct the other way, you say Muslim extremists. You can't
compare a state to stateless actors, and yet you do it all the time.

> "So the Israelis would gladly let the Arabs live in peace -- but the
> Muslims would completely destroy Israel if the shoe was reversed."

> Intellectual dishonesty AGAIN.

More like pointing out your own extremely sloppy use of terminology.

> I said that Hezbollah and Hamas would begin to destroy Israel.

Intentional or just a brainfart, that's a lie, Jay. You said "Muslims"
would destroy Israel. You didn't acknowledge the distinct possibility
that if Palestine was completely disarmed, the extremist groups *in
Israel* would annex the entire West Bank and cleanse the Palestinans.

There's a symmetry of hatred here that you refuse to acknowledge.

> Your dishonesty is when you imply that to mean all Muslims.

Those are only your own words, Jay. Go back and re-read.

> I have never excused Israel, they have made many mistakes,

Jay you excuse Israel all the time. Trex has been beating
you over the head with a litany of your own quotes on this.

> but the fact remains that Israel is willing to compromise
> and live in peace. Can you say the same for the minority
> of extreme Islamists?

And there's the false comparison right there -- between a constituted
state and a handful of ill-defined "extremist Muslims." The minority
of extremist Israelis don't seem to want to live in peace, either.

> For the record, I could not care less what skin color
> one has or what creed or ethnicity they are.

Except, of course, if they're "extremist Muslims" -- which
you appear to hold to an entirely different moral standard than
extremist Israelis. Your *entire argument* is based on the
idea that there's something uniquely evil about Muslim jihadist
doctrine as apart for any other kind of extremist doctrine.

> You are the one that keeps inferring racism,

I'm only being analytical, Jay. You can't tease the same sort of
stuff out from my posts. I try to be careful about who I call "evil."

> which is sad and people like that are partly
> responsible for perpetuating this madness.

Hardcore anti-racists like myself (and you've seen me thrash around
watcher on Holocaust denial) are part of the solution, my friend.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on July 27, 2006 at 5:22 PM | PERMALINK

Much Al-Qaeda stuff is fake, it comes courtesy of America/Jews.

THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS CONSPIRACY THEORY OF THEM ALL.
THE OFFICIAL MEDIA/GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY THEORY.

It is blatantly anti-semitic and totally stretches the bounds of believability (note that Arabs are Semites).

It goes something like this:

There is a massive Arab/Semite conspiracy to destabilize the West.

There is a gigantic network of Arab/Semite spies and agents throughout the world, at the beck and call of a BIG Semite called bin Laden.

Controlling this gigantic network of Semite spies and agents from a cave in Afghanistan (while all the time under observation by the CIA and their friends (who have produced tapes of this master plotter conversing with his mother)) bin Laden manages to destroy the two largest commercial buildings in the USA and put a significant dent in the Pentagon.

Not only this, but he is cunningly able to stand-down the United States Air Force, thus permitting this immense destruction to occur without airforce interference, which would have otherwise quickly laid waste to his plans. Such an achiever.

And not only this, but in order to sow confusion among his enemies, he publicly, and repeatedly, denies any involvement whatsoever in this amazing achievement. Such a man.

Boggles the mind, doesn't it.

Only the maddest -- probably insane -- conspiracy theorists believe this dribble.

Seriously guys, some people actually believe this crap.

IN PARTICULAR, MANY FELLOW AMERICANS BELIEVE THIS INSANE CRAP.

Posted by: watcher on July 27, 2006 at 5:26 PM | PERMALINK

Jay says: "Not really, it fails to acknowledge the complete and utter disregard the "leaders" of the Arab world have had for their very own people"

Of course, Jay, you are once again ignoring the fact that most of the modern era "leaders" were installed and supported by either european colonial powers or us and the russians during the cold war. And not coincidentally, UBL has consistently criticized those leaders for being American lapdogs [see Saudi Arabia and other Arab monarchies, Egypt, Jordan, current Afghanistan, Pakistan, probably not so much Iraq anymore since he is likely to get just the sort of theocracy that he likes...]

Posted by: cramer on July 27, 2006 at 5:26 PM | PERMALINK

By "peace through strength" do you mean how Reagan cut and ran when the Marines were bombed in Beirut in 1982?

That was Clinton's fault.

Posted by: Disputo on July 27, 2006 at 5:40 PM | PERMALINK

Much Al-Qaeda stuff is fake, it comes courtesy of America/Jews.

Remember, al-Zawahiri -- he was a total invention of the Americans/Jews.

Remember, the last video the Americans/Jews released of him.

The one that the LYING press told you al-Zawahiri had made and released himself.

If this is true, then why did al-Zawahiri produce a video of himself fumbling in his attempts to use a machine gun, and generally looking like a fool.

Think about it, he has total control of the editing, yet he chooses to release a video that makes him look like a fool.

If you believe he produced that video, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Remember, al-Zawahiri -- he was one whose face was never known -- a mystery man from Jordan.

Then, in the last fake American produced video of him, he shows his face to the world.

Why did he does this? Why this very stupid, sudden, change in behavior?

The reason is simple, the Americans/Jews were about to "kill" him and gather a "success" in "the war on terror".

They had decided to kill their own fable and needed a face to prove to the world that they had got their man.

Posted by: watcher on July 27, 2006 at 5:45 PM | PERMALINK

watcher:

That was Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, you fucking imbecile.

al-Zawahiri is Osama's right-hand-man, al Q ideologist-in-chief and former physician.

And he's Egyptian.

Numbnutz.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on July 27, 2006 at 6:31 PM | PERMALINK

THANKS Bob: damn cuting and pasting.

Much Al-Qaeda stuff is fake, it comes courtesy of America/Jews.

Remember, al-Zarqawi -- he was a total invention of the Americans/Jews.

Remember, the last video the Americans/Jews released of him.

The one that the LYING press told you al-Zarqawi had made and released himself.

If this is true, then why did al-Zarqawi produce a video of himself fumbling in his attempts to use a machine gun, and generally looking like a fool.

Think about it, he has total control of the editing, yet he chooses to release a video that makes him look like a fool.

If you believe he produced that video, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Remember, al-Zarqawi -- he was one whose face was never known -- a mystery man from Jordan.

Then, in the last fake American produced video of him, he shows his face to the world.

Why did he does this? Why this very stupid, sudden, change in behavior?

The reason is simple, the Americans/Jews were about to "kill" him and gather a "success" in "the war on terror".

They had decided to kill their own fable and needed a face to prove to the world that they had got their man.

Posted by: watcher on July 27, 2006 at 7:47 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin is so naive about terrorism and military stuff. What would he expect this old fool al-Zawahiri to say at this point? He makes another ramblingly idiotic statement and Kevin thinks it is some kind of big deal.

The statement would be a surprise and significant only if he whad been expected to weigh in with Israel this time. Maybe that's what Kevin expected?

Posted by: brian on July 27, 2006 at 7:53 PM | PERMALINK

Aw, come on Bob. You know all those Arab names look alike....

Posted by: Disputo on July 27, 2006 at 8:12 PM | PERMALINK

brian--

Of course Zawahiri's an "idiot", at least from a debating school standard. But in the real world, it doesn't matter whether what you say actually makes any sense. What matters most is to say the right basic thing at the right time. And Zawahiri and the whole al-Qaeda crew have been actually quite good at doing this. The point is how many more people are going to take this "idiot" a little more seriously now.

Posted by: kokblok on July 27, 2006 at 8:18 PM | PERMALINK

kokblock,

While I have no knowledge about Arab style of speech, I have to think that at some level the statements of Zawahiri will be looked at intellectually even in the Arab world. I think these tapes are vastly overrated by the western media. I think the more time passes and they are limited to these taped rants and no "action" (terrorist attack), the weaker they look.

Posted by: brian on July 27, 2006 at 8:29 PM | PERMALINK

According to Richard Sale:


Serving senior and former U.S. intelligence officials said that this
latest Israeli onslaught against the Hizballah will work to further
undermine Tel Aviv's security in the near future.

They said that the American public and especially officials in the Bush
administration appear to be laboring under several potentially disastrous
illusions regarding the Israeli-Hizballah fighting.

One of the first of these is that Hizballah can be uprooted and destroyed.
On the contrary, they insisted that it is an integral part of Lebanese society and an authentic
representative of the Shia population and cannot be gotten rid of by
bombing installations or capturing some strong points.

They also insisted that HIzballah is NOT a puppet of Iran. One former very
senior CIA official told me that Iran did NOT want this current upsurge in
violence, nor had Iran given any previous green light for the kidnapping
of the Israeli soldiers' Magnus Ranstorp, a British expert on Hizballah
said in an e-mail to me that Nasserallah (sic) made the decision himself, an
opinion which four former or serving U.S. government officials agreed
with. Ranstorp said there are two Iranian representatives from the Iranian
Embassy in Beirut that provide a direct link for matters that require
strategic guidance but said Nasserallah was the source of the kidnap
decision.Both Ranstorp and U.S. officials believe the notorious Imad
Mughniyeh who belongs both to the Iranian Ministry of Intelligence and
Security (MOIS) and HIzballah, had a part in the implementation of the
decision but was not the author of it.

Israel and U.S. intelligence on HIzballah has displayed some shocking
failures, especially with Tel Aviv and Washington apparently ignorant that
Iran had supplied Hizballah with an upgraded Silkworm antis-hip missile which severely damaged an
Israeli warship. In addtion, intelligence about Hizballah installations on the ground
has also been inadequate in many cases, they said.

The destruction of Lebanon's infrastructure has incredibly damaged the
image of the United States in the Arab world. In fact, the popular hatred
of the United States in such moderate Arab countries such as Egypt and Jordan
resulted in the leaders of those countries informing Condi Rice that she
was not welcome there, which was why the summit took place in Rome.

These U.S. intelligence officials believe that Hizballah will continue to
fire missiles at Israeli targets and expect that within the next few days
Tel Aviv itself could be hit by Hizballah long range missiles supplied by Iran.

Former CIA chief of counterterrorism Vince Cannistraro, confirmed that many members of
the Shia government in Iraq have or had ties to Hizballah and used to
reside in south Beirut. The first former CIA official to assert this was BoB Baer. Others now are coming out publicly to make the same point.

Also, Cannistraro confirmed that Hizballah has training camps in the Bekaa
valley and has had them for decades, and another U.S. source pointed out that
such an assertion is contained in the State Department's own publications
on terrorist organizations. I include this last because some question the existence of such camps. Yet former U.S. intelligence officials like Cannnistraro, former CIA official Larry Johnson and others confirmed that the camps are there.


Posted by: Thinker on July 27, 2006 at 8:36 PM | PERMALINK

While I have no knowledge about Arab style of speech, I have to think that at some level the statements of Zawahiri will be looked at intellectually even in the Arab world.

Yeah, just like USAmericans react intellectually, instead of viscerally, to what GWB says....

As Kokblock indicated, we're dealing with rhetoric here, not logic. What the academics in Islamabad think isn't relevant.

Posted by: Disputo on July 27, 2006 at 8:39 PM | PERMALINK

Israel and U.S. intelligence on HIzballah has displayed some shocking failures, especially with Tel Aviv and Washington apparently ignorant that Iran had supplied Hizballah with an upgraded Silkworm antis-hip missile which severely damaged an Israeli warship.

If only the US had an undercover CIA agent who was working on Iranian weapons issues....

Oh, that's right -- we did.

Posted by: Disputo on July 27, 2006 at 8:47 PM | PERMALINK

"Of course, Jay, you are once again ignoring the fact that most of the modern era "leaders" were installed and supported by either european colonial powers or us and the russians during the cold war. And not coincidentally, UBL has consistently criticized those leaders for being American lapdogs [see Saudi Arabia and other Arab monarchies, Egypt, Jordan, current Afghanistan, Pakistan, probably not so much Iraq anymore since he is likely to get just the sort of theocracy that he likes...]"

Are you saying that US Presidents for the last fifty years have demanded that the Islamo-facist Arab leaders live in castles while the population lives in squalor? That they squander their money on weaponry, militias and violence? That the continue to not formally recognize Israel?

Just asking.

I mean, how much domestic influence do you think the US really had considering that those regimes absolutely despise us?

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 8:53 PM | PERMALINK

"Except, of course, if they're "extremist Muslims" -- which
you appear to hold to an entirely different moral standard than
extremist Israelis. Your *entire argument* is based on the
idea that there's something uniquely evil about Muslim jihadist
doctrine as apart for any other kind of extremist doctrine."

wrong again rmck1. "extreme Islam" is akin to saying "white supremicist", which I also feel needs to be confronted and defeated. Extreme anything needs to be defeated. We disagree on how to defeat it. Geez, I hope this clears that up. Your continued inference of racism is tiring.

Posted by: Jay on July 27, 2006 at 8:58 PM | PERMALINK

Jay:

How about extremist Israelis?

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on July 27, 2006 at 11:52 PM | PERMALINK

"extreme Islam" is akin to saying "extreme JUDAISM" (which is practiced in Israel, among other places).

Posted by: watcher on July 28, 2006 at 12:41 AM | PERMALINK


The latest video of this man looks an absolute fake. Looks like something that was recorded on the set of CNN... the terrorists have some incredible production values, don't they?

Yep, bung in a photo of the trade centre in the background to remind the people they still have to be afraid...

Posted by: Hmm on July 30, 2006 at 9:03 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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