It doesn't have to be news. It just has to be repeated again and again and again and again until election day. It may be ignored by Bush but it may win one or two houses in Congress.

JJF: True enough.

We can't be sure the Democrats are beginning to unite until David Broder declares it so.

I think that by reiterating their position against Bush's policies in Iraq, the Democratic Party leaders send the signal that they are also against Bush's policy of preventing a cease-fire in Israel.

So they take a position which will impress the voters who are horrified by the carnage in Lebanon, while not actually taking a position that can be held against them by supporters of Israel. And at the same time, putting Bush's failed policies in Iraq back in the limelight. Pretty smooth, frankly.

Pretty smooth, frankly.

And it's about time that the Dems stopped taking it and started fighting fire with fire. Perhaps all hope is not lost.

Where I live, Republicans have constantly repeated for several years that the Democrats do not have a better plan for Iraq. It's a pervasive talking point.

What a bunch of "stuck in the 60s" dems. Christ on a crutch. If we leave Iraq, complete sectarian KAOS. I hate Bush, hate this admin as to stupidest ever elected, but we have to presist in Iraq until a satisfactory outcome can be achieved. I know I sound like Nixon in late vietnam, but its true. And now the dems sent a harshlt worded "letter" to Bush, which only spells disaster in Nov, because regardless of how idiotic the Admin is, the Amer people don't want to abandon Iraq befoe a decent solution is arrived at. I'm not talking about "winning"!!! We all understand that thet term is meant for ratings on Fox news. I'm referring to a point where Sunni and Shia want some kind of peace, even via three seperate states. Unfortunatley, it may take a smarter admin to accomplish this goal. Meanwhile, the dems, God love em, continue to do everything possible loose, looose, loose.

Kevin,

What's news is that it was reported as news.

More specifically, on AM radio, the news at the top and bottom was "Democrats today called on President Bush to withdraw American troops from Iraq by the end of the year."

Forget the inaccuracy, forget that it's been said before, this time it was reported as a simple, declarative sentence.

And more important, that is how most Americans get their news.

If they withdraw from Iraq will they stay in Kuwait?

While we may be obsessing over Lebanon, Rove is obsessing over November.

Not that I mean those two sentences to convolve with one another.

Woo-Hoo! My husband just walked in with the entire second season of Deadwood. I love you all, but I love Seth Bullock and Al Swearingen more. See you tomorrow.

Think you know George? (I can never resist taking a quiz no matter what it is),

http://www.newyorker.com/shouts/content/articles/060807sh_shouts

(I missed 4 out of 19)

Why is it that your side is always discounting accuracy, James E. Powell?

Democrats agreeing with Al Qeada that the US shouldn't be in Iraq: Still the case.

You're right Kevin. No news here. Wake me up when the AQ platform is different from the democrat one.

We don't need new. We need to constantly push what we've put out there. The Dem plan on Iraq withered in the media after a week, maybe 2 at the most and the Dems never picked the ball back up. This is them picking the ball back up and they need to keep running it past the elections and through the state of the untion address.

I think the Dems should just make a TV commercial with this young soldier in Iraq, saying “I feel like we are just driving around, waiting to get blown up”. Run it three times a day during prime viewing hours. Wait for November and announce impeachment proceedings begin in December with Karl Rove’s treason trial beginning in January... Period.

Why do the troops hate the troops?

Hopefully Dems can "finally" unite in a similar fashion on the GOPs cynical minimum wage/Paris Hilton give-a-way bill. Two strongly united and principled stands in one week would be a good thing. Not to mention weekly roll outs of policy positions from now until 11/7.

Hopefully Dems try to "wrap-up" the election BEFORE Labor Day so that the GOP has to play catch-up for a month. It will take money, but a strong showing could help raise some money.

By Reed-Levin Amendment, are we referring to Levin Amdt. No. 4320? The vote among Senate Democrats was indeed 38-6, provided Jeffords (I-VT) is counted as a Democrat. It's strange trying to get the text or even the summary of the amendment in Thomas. The relevant Thomas page offers a link marked TEXT OF AMENDMENT AS SUBMITTED: CR S6090-6091 and that link takes you to a page of amendments about conservation and fisheries. Weird.

Enough about the war. Boo, hoo, hoo. Soldiers are dying! Caskets at Dover. Waaaaaaaah. Where's my fucking estate tax cut?

American Hawk wrote, "Democrats agreeing with Al Qeada that the US shouldn't be in Iraq: Still the case." Wrong again, American Hawk. Al Qaeda wants the United States in Iraq, because it costs American money and lives, limits our military flexibility, doesn't advance any of our goals, and results in ever-increasing Muslim belief that Americans hate Muslims. It's time to outsmart Al Qaeda and do what they don't want us to do: get out of Iraq.

Global Citizen: "Woo-Hoo! My husband just walked in with the entire second season of Deadwood."

Haven't we already been coping with the real-time version of Deadwood that currently resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue?

I think the Dems should just make a TV commercial with this young soldier in Iraq, saying “I feel like we are just driving around, waiting to get blown up”. Run it three times a day during prime viewing hours. Wait for November and announce impeachment proceedings begin in December with Karl Rove’s treason trial beginning in January... Period.

Posted by: Stephen Kriz on July 31, 2006 at 8:36 PM | PERMALINK

If you truly believe that the Dems are going to ride into office by using such a platform, then you're in for a rude awaking on Nov. 9th. Granted that the President's party is supposed to lose seats in the sixth year midterms, so the Dems might win regardless. But, as demoralized as the GOP base might be, the idea of Dems being in charge of either House might outweigh their disappointment with GOP to turn out to vote. Will it be enough? Hope so, but time will tell.

But, if you're going to run on such a platform, then have the courage of your convictions to say to the American people, "We simply don't care what happens to Iraq after we leave." If the Reps are able to convince the voters that leaving Iraq regardless of conditions on the ground would result in a worsening of the strategic position of the US, i.e., make us weaker, make our enemies stronger, then don't be surprised if the voters, once again, choose to vote against their own "interests" by keeping the GOP in power.

Stephen Kriz: I think the Dems should just make a TV commercial with this young soldier in Iraq, saying “I feel like we are just driving around, waiting to get blown up”. Run it three times a day during prime viewing hours. Wait for November and announce impeachment proceedings begin in December with Karl Rove’s treason trial beginning in January...

Preposterous. Congress has no authority to schedule trials, and at any rate a grand jury must be convened first.

Oh, the other stuff sounds good though.

American Hawk: "Wake me up when the AQ platform is different from the democrat one."

(Sigh!) Another pearl of wisdom from the GOP's bumper sticker slogan mindset ...

It would really be nice to actually see some reality-based answers coming from our Republican friends, because "Stay the Course" only provides that our troops in Iraq will be batted around by various insurgent groups in perpetuity, like a cheap piňata.

Since the number of Jews who have answered the questions raised by this article is few, and the number of Jews who have ignored it is almost all, and it is so relevant to what is going on in Gaza and Lebanon, I feel it needs to be posted again:

WHY DOESN'T THE MEDIA PUBLISH THIS? I wonder indeed.

Israel Fakes a Provocation (the "kidnapping" of Cpl Gilad Shalit)

The following passages in italics are from:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/06/26/wmid26.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/06/26/ixnews.html

Last night two Israeli soldiers were killed and another kidnapped in a dawn attack by Palestinian militants who tunnelled under Gazas heavily protected border.

The attackers, believed to number seven or eight, surprised Israeli forces when they appeared at first light through a tunnel on open ground 300 yards inside Israel near a kibbutz.

Gaza is built on old semi-consolidated sand dunes. It is extremely unlikely that anyone could tunnel 500, or more, yards in the sandy ground of Gaza (300 yards into Israel plus 200 yards of no-mans land plus more to the tunnel entrance), without the tunnel collapsing at some point.

They split into three groups before launching simultaneous attacks on three Israeli defensive positions - a look-out tower, plus a tank and an armoured personnel carrier, both dug in, facing Gaza.

If you were only seven or eight, would you split into three groups? If you were only two, or three, would you attack a tank over flat ground, manned by four soldiers waiting inside to kill you?

They blew open the tanks rear doors with a missile fired from point-blank range before tossing grenades inside. Two of the tank crew died and another was severely wounded but the final crew member, the gunner, was forced out of the wreckage at gunpoint.

The rear doors are blown off and a few grenades popped inside. Tanks are not made to fall apart. Blowing off the rear doors would have taken a blast sufficient to seriously hurt those inside. The grenades would have then made mincemeat of them. One wonders if it is standard practice to wear a bulletproof vest inside a hot tank. One would think that the tank would be bulletproof enough not to require such a vest. Can Israeli tanks stop bullets, or not?

Later reports, from the New York Times and Guardian, tell use that Shalit suffered only minor injuries to his abdomen and one arm, even though everyone else in the tank was severely wounded or killed. Shalit would have been less than three feet away from those killed (there is no spare room in a tank).

Israeli trackers said they found his blood-stained bulletproof vest close to the Gaza perimeter fence.

The militants force Shalit to take off his bulletproof vest and leave it close to the Gaza concentration camp fence, in order to help the Israelis with their investigation.

By the way, whose blood is it on his bulletproof vest? Did his minor wounds bleed profusely, or was it the other soldiers blood and guts all over him. Pity their bulletproof vests didn't save them.

Meanwhile, two other militants attacked a nearby concrete watchtower.... The troop carrier was also damaged in another attack but it was unoccupied. The attackers then escaped back into Gaza by cutting their way through the perimeter fence.

Interestingly, the attackers escaped easily by cutting through the (electrified) perimeter fence, yet cutting through the perimeter fence in order to get in, was so hard to do, that they burrowed through half a mile of sandy ground instead. Something wrong with this story, perhaps?

After all this commotion, the soldiers in all the nearby Gaza concentration camp guard-towers, manage to miss a few Arabs running the 300 yards, over flat ground, back to the perimeter fence, miss them when they cut through it, and miss them running across no-mans land to safety. Anyway why, you may ask, did they not return through the tunnel they had painstakingly dug? Perhaps, they wanted to prove the total incompetence of the Israeli soldier.

If you believe this sad tale, I have a bridge to sell you.

The Hamas political leadership sought to distance itself from the incident last night when a spokesman said it had no knowledge of the fate of Cpl Shilat. Ghazi Hamad, a spokesman, said: "We are calling on the resistance groups, if they do have the missing soldier to protect his life and treat him well."

Yes, the Hamas political leadership had no idea of the fate of Cpl Shilat, as the story is a total fabrication.

The Jew press then claims that the Popular Resistance Committees, the armed wing of Hamas and the (previously unknown) Army of Islam were jointly responsible for the kidnapping of Shilat.

Why three groups you may ask?

The reason for three groups, is so that each of them might believe that the other has the "kidnapped" soldier, when, in fact, none of them have him. He is sipping coffee in Tel Aviv.

And why did a "previously unknown" group put up its hand?

Well, just in case one of the groups had doubts that the other group had the "kidnapped" soldier, they certainly couldn't be sure the "previously unknown" group didn't have him,... because after all, they don't have any idea who is leading, or anyone in, this unknown group.

So the reason for the weird "I did it arrangement," is so that the Jew press can claim that the Arabs claimed responsibility, when all they have done, is to NOT deny they did it.

Oh yeah, the "previously unknown" group is a Jew invention. It doesn't exist, except in the Jew newspapers.

Of course, shortly, the Army of Islam will need to be created (by the Jews) in order to negotiate the "release" of Shilat.

If you are not already convinced that the whole story is a fabrication, ask yourself; What were the four Israeli soldiers doing in the tiny confines of that dug-in tank? Ask your self; How long were they going to continue sitting in that tank? All day perhaps, or till they roasted in the desert sun? Or, till another group of four took over on the next shift? And of course, having four soldiers in just one tank, wont provide a defense, so there will have to be hundreds of tanks and hundreds of soldiers all sitting in these tanks,...

all waiting,... all waiting,... all waiting,.... for exactly what?

Waiting for Palestinian children to throw stones at them, perhaps? Perhaps, waiting attentively for militants to dig a half mile tunnel through sandy soil, pop up, and rush them over flat ground, but not attentively enough to see them approach? Perhaps, they were waiting for the Egyptian army to materialize, Star Trek like, from their bases hundreds of miles away on the other side of the Suez canal? I dont know,... you tell me why?

Yes, the story is a total fabrication. A fake provocation to start a war. Yes, the Jews are evil people.

Yes, the story is a total fabrication. A fake provocation to start a war.

Why is it the Jews can just ignore the truth of the matter?

How is it the Jews continuously delete/or ignore these posts which tell the truth?

It is important to understand that

THE JEWS STARTED BOTH THE MASSACRES IN GAZA AND LEBANON.

Both of these were wars of choice, disguised to look like retaliation (the usual lying Jew way).

IN GAZA they fabricated a (clearly false) story in their newspapers about a "kidnapped" soldier.

IN LEBANON the Israeli Death Force (IDF) sent troops into a disputed piece of SYRIA (called Shebaa Farms, that has historically been claimed by Lebanon) KNOWING FULL WELL how Hizbollah would respond to an intrusion by Jew troops into this section of Arab land. Hizbollah responded exactly as they have in the past. No surprise here. The Jews used this as an excuse for their pre-planned Nazi attack on Lebanon.

The Shebaa Farms were owned by Lebanese citizens from the town of Shebaa (in Lebanon) until they were stolen by the thieving Jews in their 1967 surprise attack on the Arabs.

Since the Shebaa Farms were administered by Syria when the Jews stole the Golan Heights from Syria, the legalistic Jews decided they did not have to return the Shebaa Farms to Lebanon when they withdrew from Lebanon in 2000.

In short:

THE JEWS STARTED BOTH THE MASSACRES IN GAZA AND LEBANON.

Why is it the Jews can just ignore the truth of the matter?

Yes, this is good. I'd been hoping (even somewhat expecting) the Dems would do something llike this, but thought they might hold off until after Labor Day. Glad they didn't; three months of grinding away at CHANGE VS. MORE OF THE SAME is better than two, and could make a difference come November.

slim: "Why is it the Jews can just ignore the truth of the matter? How is it the Jews continuously delete/or ignore these posts which tell the truth? ... an intrusion by Jew troops ... they were stolen by the thieving Jews in their 1967 surprise attack ... Why is it the Jews can just ignore the truth of the matter?"

I thought that I heard today on CNN that Mel Gibson checked himself into rehab. Guess he found one outfitted with wireless.

Posted by: Joel Rubinstein on July 31, 2006 at 8:45 PM | PERMALINK

Any link to "CR" is the actual text of what was said on the floor. You have to go to page S6204 and S6205 to get the text. Sometimes, its easy to find the text of amendments, others not. (You can also go here.)

Oops, the last link should have pointed here.

Dems keep offering warmed-over gruel to the voters.

Then after they lose the election they blame the voters.

Dems never learn from their failures, folks.

"But, if you're going to run on such a platform, then have the courage of your convictions to say to the American people, "We simply don't care what happens to Iraq after we leave."
--chicounsel

What are you talking about? We "simply didn't care about Iraq" before we invaded! Don't be duped by Karl Rove's bait and switch ploy - We went into Iraq on the false supposition that there were WMDs that Saddam was planning to use on us - NOT on a humanitarian mission. Review the historical record.

As far as "having the courage of your convictions", it would be nice if the conservatives showed a little courage of their convictions and raised taxes to pay for their dirty little war in Iraq, instead of writing a bunch of bad checks and handing the bill to my children.

Hey! That could be the Dems 2006 campaign slogan - TELL THE GOP TO STOP STEALING FROM OUR CHILDREN!!!

Update: The Jew attack on Lebanon.

Jews plan to "expand and strengthen" their military operation by killing thousands more Lebanese civilians.

After the Jews terrorists have finished killing and terrorizing Lebanese civilians, they will renew their attack on the Hizbollah freedom-fighters, who are apparently surviving this totally one sided fight, quite well (as amazing as that may seem).

The new Hitler, Olmert, conceded that it was much more productive to kill Lebanese civilians as they could not fight back, and that these Jew terror attacks served a valuable purpose as they denied Hizbollah civilian cover.

"Hizbollah cannot hide behind dead civilians," Olmert commented.

it's no "reaction" to anything.

www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=10647.

and there's no way out.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1834553,00.html

Does anyone realize that many of you here are the very reason the Dems will not win many elections anytime soon. Specifically slim, who could almost single handedly take your party down.

Have a nice day.

Frequency Kenneth:

Not sure what you are trying to say upthread, smart guy, but don't be so cocksure that Americans are averse to paying more taxes to clean up Bush’s deficit disaster. You see, most Americans are smarter than you and also have a conscience.

"...focused on counterterrorism, training and logistical support of Iraqi security forces, and force protection of U.S. personnel."

Uh, that's pretty much what our forces are doing right now, isn't it?

Stephen Kriz, dont use boldface in your posts. That's how I identify the posts from the nazi asshat, so I can skip over them.

Jay
Why is it that you have no idea about false equivalencies. Israel is the nation socking it to Lebanon. The U.S. is the nation occupying Iraq.
I notice we must all be wearing i.d. tags and declaring party affiliations. No ? More idiocy.

Re: Iraq http://votersforpeace.us/
Is this new ?

Re: Israel A more local view http://www.haeretz.com/hansen/spages/743733.html

slim isn't part of the Democratic party. If anything, he/she is aligned with Mel Gibson and the people who paid to see his crappy "Passion"--and those were mostly red state Republicans at the bottom of the gene pool.

What is this Democrat Party that you reference?

Jay:

Are you really *this* dumb?

"Slim" is "watcher" (also "Ripped" and a number of other handles). He's been posting that boilerplate for weeks now, and people here have learned to ignore him.

He changes his handle because Kevin -- though never one to police the blog with any regularity or vigor -- has been deleting his anti-semitic spew.

The dude's a nutbar who has about the same relationship to the Democratic Party as Timmy McVeigh had to the Republicans.

Bob

I thought Tim McVeigh was al Qaeda (ergo, the Democratic Party)?

the fake fake Al:

I used to be sympathetic to that position. I used to feel very attatched to Colin Powell's Pottery Barn Rule. I used to argue with antiwar friends that I felt (along with Carol Moseley Braun and Howard Dean) it would be wrong to wreck a country and then walk away from it.

The turning point for me was probably John Murtha's press conference.

I don't think our presence can make Iraq any better. And now, with the mission changing and a call-up of additional troops into Baghdad, we're seeing Republican discontent on this as well. Chuck Hagel, a GOP Rep from Oklahoma, have both said that the American people aren't going to long tolerate American troops being used as police officers in the middle of a sectarian conflict.

The Dems' position is not mere posturing. It is dead-on correct on the merits. We *do* have an interest in Iraq, but it needs to be drastically reduced to two central missions:

1) Prevent the formation of an al Qaeda-like staging ground for potential terrorist attacks in other parts of the world.

2) Continue to train and equip the ISF, and help their leadership deal with corruption and infiltration of sectarian militias.

And we can do this with the bulk of our force stationed, as Peter Galbraith suggests, in Kurdistan.

The partition of Iraq is not something I welcome. I think it's a disasterous outcome. But, at this point, it might already be a done deal.

And it's a sad turn of events -- but you're going to see Republicans jumping on this bandwagon as well, and drastically defining victory down into something resembling damage control.

The pooch has already been screwed to a fare-thee-well. The only question now is whether the ensuing rape-induced pregnancy is going to bring forth Godzilla ...

Bob

JJF, Kevin Drum, Global Citizen, James E. Powell, Donald from Hawaii, and truth are also the very reason the Dems will not win many elections anytime soon.

Bobby: Jay might be one of those identities manned by a different person each day.

I have come across a sizable number of such identities on various bulletin boards, forums, etc.

One indicator of this sort of activity, is that today's character often "forgets" what was said by others, who played the character before them.

"slim":

The only person who's ever called me "Bobby" before on this blog is, umm, "watcher" :)

Jay is a stable identity. He's consistently smug and consistently stupid :)

I'm not the sort who buys into conspiracy theories about commenters. I think the "paid political operative" jazz is a myth. Our trolls are mostly retired guys with too much time on their hands and a headfull of rightwing ideology.

There's some sock puppetry, to be sure. And there are some people, like yourself, who are easy to spot because you post *the same damn thing* day in and day out.

This is not rocket science.

You should really take your anti-semitic bigotry and find another venue for it; your presence only makes it that much more difficult for the honest critics of Israel.

Bob

Hold on there, Bobby. I thought "truth" just said "slim" was NOT aligned with the Democratic Party, so how could he make it difficult for the honest critics of Israel?

JJF, Kevin Drum, Global Citizen, James E. Powell, Donald from Hawaii, and truth are also the very reason the Dems will not win many elections anytime soon.

While 'untruth' is rooting for the Republicans, right?

"Democrats agreeing with Al Qeada that the US shouldn't be in Iraq: Still the case."

Who is this Al Qeada of which you speak? Is that Fake Al's last name? Surely, American Big-talk, you can't mean those guys over there in Iraq, who thank Allah every day that we came to them, dismantled Saddam Hussein's secterian dictatorship, and offered them a non-stop recruiting program, at the expense of our own blood and money! Yeah, that's the "Democrat" program exactly.

Pssst, over here. You look like a smart fella, and I know where there's some Florida swampland for sale under Katherine Harris's skirt.

Thomas:

Quit being a thickheaded troll. "Slim" is a rabid, frothing
anti-semite. Since all too many defenders of Israel are quick to
accuse their critics of being motivated by anti-semitism, an Israel
critic who is the genuine Jew-hating article is extremely obnoxious.

I can't believe I needed to friggin' *explain* this to you ...

slim:

Ironic that you mentioned that phenomenon, which
is the inverse of sock puppetry. The only time I
recall a board being convinced of this was for an entity
called "sruk" who used to post on the NYT Iraq forum.

It's ironic because "sruk's" ideology was very close to yours. It
was virulently anti-Israel, posting link after link of press reports
on Israeli atrocities and ill motives. This entity claimed to be a
Sunni Muslim living in Birmingham, England. Along with the bolded
boilerplate came denunciations of Shi'ism and Sufism, defenses
of Salafism and how Wahabism is a term that doesn't parse ...

It became apparent after awhile, that this "sruk" had different
rhetorical styles at different times of the day. Some sruks liked
to engage in debate, other sruks just pasted huge chunks of text.
The ideology was entirely consistent, but it was clear that "sruk"
was a franchise, perhaps maintained by a Birmingham Islamic center.

This is the only example I've seen of this
in over a decade of posting on message fora.

Bob

You're actually explaining things to that Jew called Slim? I have it on good authority that he's actually a self-hating Jewish communist America-hater sent here to rile everyone up. That's right: Slim and Watcher and the rest are big fat Jewy Jew Jews, fomenting hate and disgust wherever they go. No one said they weren't clever people.

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JewyJewyJewyJewyJewyJewy JewyJew !

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Good post!!

See, his name is Benjamin. Obviously part of some conspiracy between Slim and the guy from 'The Graduate'.

If you truly believe that the Dems are going to ride into office by using such a platform, then you're in for a rude awaking on Nov. 9th. Granted that the President's party is supposed to lose seats in the sixth year midterms, so the Dems might win regardless. But, as demoralized as the GOP base might be, the idea of Dems being in charge of either House might outweigh their disappointment with GOP to turn out to vote. Will it be enough? Hope so, but time will tell.

But, if you're going to run on such a platform, then have the courage of your convictions to say to the American people, "We simply don't care what happens to Iraq after we leave." If the Reps.

"Situations defined as real are real in their consequences," William Isaac Thomas, 1928.

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With Sadaam about to face the firing squad for his atrocities, it would be fun to see who has the highest death total between he and Bush Co. for equivalent periods in Iraq.
Let's say for the four year period prior to the US invasion how many Iraqis were killed, and for the four year period after the Bush Co. invasion how many were killed, for example.
The analysis could be broken down by religious or demographic groups or other suitable division.
I don't know the answer but am curious.

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