I don't attend synagogue or church, so can someone clarify for me whther it is O.K. to slug a guy in a wheelchair during the services.

I feel sorry for the guy, despite his recurrent lunatic calls for the destruction every threat that he perceives, real or not.

How do you argue with a person on a wheel chair?

Just as appropriate as it is for people who alleged follow Jesus Christ's teaching to advocate war. Have they ever bothered reading the gospels?

Just amazing how such rude, deluded bulles ever gotten taken seriously. And they certainly not taken seriously anywhere outside the US and Britain.

He is mentally ill. We are following the foreign policy perscriptions of the mentally ill. God help America.

A hack psychologist like Krautthamer might say that Krautthamer is delusionally insane.

Did his right hand try to strangle him?

I don't attend synagogue or church, so can someone clarify for me whther it is O.K. to slug a guy in a wheelchair during the services.

It's OK, it's somewhere in Leviticus.

I know nothing about M. J. Rosenberg or his credibility, but his column is in the Ann Coulter/Michael Moore school of extreme exaggeration. E.g.,

Krauthammer has never in his career expressed a word of sympathy for an Arab, anywhere. He hates them all. For him, the only good part of this war is the damage done to Lebanon.

But here's the beauty part. Krauthammer doesn't care about the Jews either. He wants a ground war and if it kills 500 Israeli soldier boys, so be it.

Can someone tell me why I should believe this columnist?

You don't argue with him--just spin him around in his chair.
Seriously, this is an illuminating story about Krauthammer and his bullying arrogance. It tells a lot.

In answer to the first poster, it is ok to slug a person in a wheelchair during the recessional.

well at least they aren't mean, ill-tempered and radical.

Thanks for broadcasting this. I think evidence that Krauthammer has more than his share of, ahem, emotional baggage has been around for years (remember his "I was a psychologist, and I say Clinton is mentally ill!" antic?). I've long been puzzled about why the guy gets treated like a serious adult engaging in good-faith dialogue.

What's the problem with getting angry for supporting appeasement with the terrorists? Defeatism and appeasement come naturally to the left wing. We should kill the terrorists not appease them.

You don't argue with him--just spin him around in his chair.
Seriously, this is an illuminating story about Krauthammer and his bullying arrogance. It tells a lot.

It's OK, it's somewhere in Leviticus.

Hee!

And Nemesis is right. Krauthammer has provided ample evidence of his mental illness over the years.

I've always found it difficult to reconcile his hysterical anger with the fact that he's a psychiatrist.

I didn't know he was physically disabled. I wonder what he thinks of the Americans with Disability Act?

What's the problem with getting angry for supporting appeasement with the terrorists? Defeatism and appeasement come naturally to the left wing. We should kill the terrorists not appease them.

Right on, Al! Whyn't you head on over to your nearest Quaker congregation, and start brawls with all those appeasers? It's the closest you'd ever get to a fair fight.....

I wonder what he thinks of the Americans with Disability Act?

I dunno, but the rabbi probably wanted to have the ramp up to the synagogue door removed after that episode.

From my perch here in blogistan, I can diagnose Krauthammer with an "advanced stage of looniness" which, oddly enough, is the same diagnosis that Krauthammer (the alleged psychiatrist) gave for Howard Dean, via the Tee-Vee.

Weird.

Can I perform brain surgery on Frist, now? I've got all my tools here at the computer.
.

ex-liberal wrote: ... his column is in the Ann Coulter/Michael Moore school of extreme exaggeration

There is no "Michael Moore school of extreme exaggeration" because Michael Moore does not exaggerate.

And there is no basis for linking the patriot Michael Moore with the anti-American liar, hate-monger, and terrorist sympathizer Ann Coulter.

And you are not now, nor have you ever been, a "liberal". Your use of the handle "ex-liberal" is a transparent fraud, and everyone knows it. You would deserve more respect if you honestly identified yourself as the right-wing Republican partisan and ideologue that you are.

Even I, a true Visionairy for Freedom (like Al and Hawk) realize that poor Krath is nuts. I'm glad folks like Time give him a space at the table, though -- you liberals wouldn't want to punish him just for being mentally enfeebled!

Can someone tell me why I should believe this columnist?

It's easy enough. Come up with a link that shows Krauthammer 'express[ing] a word of sympathy for an Arab, anywhere'. If you can, then we'll regard Rosenberg as an extreme exaggerator.

Off you go.

Old Hat wins the thread.

I don't attend synagogue or church, so can someone clarify for me whther it is O.K. to slug a guy in a wheelchair during the services.

Yeah, that's kosher.

We should kill the terrorists not appease them.

C'mon Al, even I wouldn't go that far. I think we should just stick with slugging Krauthammer.

Replace Krauthammers wheelchair with a 1-ton bomb, and let him ride "Slim Pickens style" into the next Hezbollah target in Isreal's misguided war. And offer the same deal to John Bolton, Bill Kristol, Brit Hume, Dennis Prager..and I heard Joe Lieberman isnt doing anything right now....

No surprise, the asshole nearly ran me over on Connecticut Avenue a couple years ago. He may tout making the price of gas painful, but he sure dries one gigantic SUV.

I apologize for Al calling an Israeli rabbi an appeaser and leftist. It's just that he wants to kill Arabs so much that we sometimes just can't handle it.

It is a crime to advocate the death of a right-wing columnist.

I met krauthammer 7 years ago when he was amongst a large group being inducted into the Am. Ac. of Achievement...He is in fact a distinguished psychiatrist (at least according to his CV) but I am not in the least surprised by the synagogue anecdote...He came off as an individual filled with bile and rage and definitely not of the school that believes in not going nuts when anyone disagrees with them about anything(our argument was about Kosovo)...Anyway, it is still rather difficult for people to call him out given his disability (note: I am not that sensitive as previous posts on this blog have shown but I definitely do agree that yelling at a guy in a wheel chair is a bit awkward)...

ahem wrote, It's easy enough. Come up with a link that shows Krauthammer 'express[ing] a word of sympathy for an Arab, anywhere'. If you can, then we'll regard Rosenberg as an extreme exaggerator.

Five miuntes of googling provided three quick examples

First, sympathy for the moderate pro-western Arabs

The moderate pro-Western Arabs understand this very clearly. Which is why Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan immediately came out against Hezbollah and privately urged the United States to let Israel take down that organization. They know that Hezbollah is fighting Iran's proxy war not only against Israel but also against them and, more generally, against the United States and the West.

Second, concern for both Arab and Israeli casualties:

...the fact that there is indeed a disproportion in this war, a radical moral asymmetry between Hezbollah and Israel: Hezbollah is deliberately trying to create civilian casualties on both sides...

Third. sympathy for Lebanese innocents:

But Lebanese innocents must also die in order for Israel to be demonized, which is why Hezbollah hides its fighters, its rockets, its launchers, its entire infrastructure among civilians. Creating human shields is a war crime. It is also a Hezbollah specialty.

Wow. I don't have anything to say about that story except that I can hardly imagine a more disrepsectful thing to do than to start screaming at the rabbi on the bima during Yom Kippur services.

Krauthammer is a professional pundit and a warmonger; his outburst was clearly doing work on the Sabbath, for which the punishment is death (Exodus 35:2).

Did his right hand try to strangle him?

"Gentlemen, you can't fight here! This is a War Room!"

It happened. It was at Ohr Kodesh Congregation in Chevy Chase, Maryland. The rabbi was a visiting Israeli, Tsvi Marx. It definitely livened up the day!

Gosh, I always knew that Krauthammer was decrepit, handicapped, incapable.
Now I find out he has physical disabilities too.

It's OK, it's somewhere in Leviticus.
Posted by: Old Hat on August 9, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, but since 2Kings says that Pi=3.0, those wheels are actually hexagons. Which explains why Krauthammer is so grumpy all the time.

LMAO @ ex-liberal.

If that is the best you can do, I'd say that you have conclusively demonstrated that Krauthammer has never expressed a word of sympathy for an Arab.

You have certainly not earned your check today.

I'm ashamed to admit Krauthammer is a fellow Nationals fan. Wish we could farm him out to Harrisburg.

mhr, your racism is duly noted.

You may leave now.

shorter mhr: Every brown person is an evil tarrist!

Ex-liberal,
Let me help you out (which way did you come in?)
Here ya go

Congratulations to Krauthammer on joining Antonin Scalia and Osama Bin Laden as people who think they should get bonus points for being rude or violent under the banner of their respective religions, because *that* makes it even better, whether it's Bin Laden saying terrorism during Ramadan scores even more holy points with Allah, Scalia saying his gesture wasn't rude but exemplary because he did it from church, or Krauthammer objecting to prayers for peace in a synagogue.

(also, I'd say this is more ammo for the "Krauthammer's fucking nuts which is why he attacks Democrats as unhinged" projection analysis)

I'm on crutches, not quite the same as a wheelchair but basically you just walk up to me and start arguing with me. Then I whack you with a crutch. Simple.

And for all of you trolls, a challenge: find me one, just one, quote from a leftist/liberal directly urging that we appease terrorists (meaning al-Queda and its subsidiaries, and not merely being opposed to the republican war "policy" in Iraq) and allow them to defeat us. I've put this out there before but so far no joy. Don't disappoint me.

We should kill the terrorists not appease them.

Yeah, that's been a big success in Israel.
There is no further proof of the vacuum between your ears that you can't find a middle ground between these two extremes.

Who blew up ancient Buddha statues in Afghanistan? Who have blown up people in the Phillipines and in Indonesia

In the first case they were Afghanis. In the second, they were Filipinos and Indonesians.

Guess they all look the same to you, racist jackass.

The rabbi should have gone Tekiyah on his ass.

A few years ago I had a run in with a completely beligerent ass hole who happened to be in a chair. I pulled a chair up in front of her and said "gimme your best shot, cause you're getting mine."

She ceased to be a problem at those meetings after that point.

Yeah, but since 2Kings says that Pi=3.0, those wheels are actually hexagons. Which explains why Krauthammer is so grumpy all the time.

Now THAT'S funny OBF.

Ex-Lib, none of the three examples you cite are expressing sympathy for any arabs. They condemn Hezzbolah and balme them for civilian arab casualties, but that is not sympathy. The first one simply applauds the pro-western arabs for their political ideology. Just because his condemnation in these examples is not explicit it can not be assumed to be sympathy of any sort.

"tekiya": What is this?

Doctor Faustus (ll. 242-243)

We should kill the terrorists not appease them.

This is what I always respond when people try to convince me that beating the shit out of the political opposition is wrong.

What's the problem with getting angry for supporting appeasement with the terrorists?

Conservatives have done much to appease the terrorists. For instance, in response to the idea that the terrorists hate us for our freedoms, conservatives junked our freedoms. No more problem!

"How do you argue with a person on a wheel chair?"

You can't. His moral authority is absolute... just ask Maureen Dowd.

"This is what I always respond when people try to convince me that beating the shit out of the political opposition is wrong."

So terrorists who blow up cafes, pizza parlors, buses are nothing more than the political opposition?

"In the first case they were Afghanis. In the second, they were Filipinos and Indonesians.

Guess they all look the same to you, racist jackass."

I think he meant the common thread between them is the religion of peace.

Tekiyah is one of the notes blown on the shofar, or ram's horn, during Yom Kippur. It sounds like a long medium-pitch honk with a high bleat at the end. The noise would make an appropriate response to most of Krauthammer's columns.

brooksfoe on August 9, 2006 at 4:03 PM

Thanks!

The logic of the Bush administration with regards to your question, FF, goes something like this. We shouldn't answer your question, or indeed talk to people like you at all. It only rewards you for your bad behavior. The only language you understand is force. The reason we haven't defeated people like you yet is that we've been too reluctant to use total military force against you. What we ought to do is use bunker-busting weapons on your house. Unfortunately, some of your innocent neighbors may be killed as well, but no war is without collateral damage.

LOL. Brooksfoe, I thought by tekiyah you meant tekiya, which would work as well.

Or did you also mean:

Tekiyah

1. Nelly's baby momma.

Tekiyah is a drama queen.

(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tekiyah)

What a surprise: the 'ex-lib' troll has problems comprehending the word 'sympathy'.

"How do you argue with a person on a wheel chair?"

Achille Lauro his ass?

I thought Tekiyah was kosher tequilla.

Hey MHR

Who held dozens of US citizens hostage in Tehran in 1979?
Iranians
Who killed 200 Hindus on a train in 2006?
Pakistanis, probably, although it ain't certain.
Who blew up ancient Buddha statues in Afghanistan?
Afghans (armed and trained under the leadership of that great American Ronald Reagan.)
Who have blown up people in the Phillipines and in Indonesia and have killed thousands of Iraqis?
Do I have to go on?

Mister Pedantic does not endorse blowing things, or people, up. But he does take exception to racism and ignorance. From anyone.

And FF, before we get too snarky about the "religion of peace" we need to read a bit of Christian history, don't we? See "Crusades." See "Reformation." See "Hypatea"

Dear Mister Pedantic

Isn't it true that people who talk about themselves in the third person are often serial killers. Either that or cartoonish characters on Saturday Night Live.

It is true that some Muslims did all those things you describe, but that doesn't mean that all Muslims are guilty. I could come up with a list of horrors done by, oh I don't know, Germans, on any given day (or maybe hour) during the 1940s equalling your entire list, that doesn't mean I would be right to condemn all Germans. Does it?

..Anyway, it is still rather difficult for people to call him out given his disability (note: I am not that sensitive as previous posts on this blog have shown but I definitely do agree that yelling at a guy in a wheel chair is a bit awkward)... Posted by: v

What if you squat down?

"And FF, before we get too snarky about the "religion of peace" we need to read a bit of Christian history, don't we? See "Crusades." See "Reformation." See "Hypatea""

Sure, you can look through the ages and document all sorts of Christian misdeeds. But with Moslems, the atrocities are all very much contemporary.

Gracious, has Charles not been well? I do hope he feels better now.

Radovan Karadjic (sp?) was also a psychiatrist.

Dear Mister Pedantic

Isn't it true that people who talk about themselves in the third person are often serial killers(?). . . Posted by: Ron Byers

Don't forget professional athletes and rap artistes.

Sure, you can look through the ages and document all sorts of Christian misdeeds. But with Moslems, the atrocities are all very much contemporary.
Posted by: Freedom Fighter on August 9, 2006 at 4:48 PM | PERMALINK

I'm not sure what you mean exactly. To take you at your word literally is to say before the contemporary era, Muslims did not committ atrocities. However, I don't believe this is what you mean, but instead want to say that Christian misdeeds predate the contemporary era. How about the Holocaust, the British slaughter of the Kikuyu during the Mau Mau insurgency, the Portuguese oppression in Angola and Mozambique, the entire existence of Rhodesia and apartheid South Africa, the French wars in Algeria and Vietnam, the Dutch war in Indonesia, the terrors of Charles Taylor and Mobutu Sese Seko, the Rwandan genocide, Australian policies of ethnic cleansing against the Aborigines that continued until the 1970's, the perpetrators of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, etc? Some of these were committed by secular Christians, but they were Christians nonetheless. Even when Muslim state leaders engaged in policies of ethnic cleansing and possibly genocide - Hussein in Kurdistan, Suharto in East Timore, Yahya Khan in East Pakistan in 1971 - the US stood more or less by them because they were allies.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason why there is so much Islamic terrorism has anything to do with the fact that from Palestine to Chechnya to Kashmir to Xinjiang to 1980's Afghanistan areas dominated by Muslims have been conquered and ruled imperially by people who are not wanted there? Can you think of any other religion's followers who live in as many places that are occupied?

How sad that he is still bitter about jumping into that empty swimming pool.

. . . secular Christians, but they were Christians nonetheless. Posted by: Reality Man

WTF?

How, pray tell, can someone be a "secular Christian"? If you know the answer to this one, then perhaps you have also settled the riddle of the "secular Jew."

where's the jew hater with the bold text fetish? i thought for sure he'd chime in on this one.

To quote Firesign Thearte,"..... Mr Armchair Quarterback-Mr Wheelchair General......"

To quote Firesign Theatre,"..... Mr Armchair Quarterback-Mr Wheelchair General......"

Once again we seek to destroy people we disagree with to make a political point. Left and Right are both equally guilty. I wonder if it is possible for a genuinely sincere person of any political persuasion to be anything less than evil in the eyes of half the country? There does not appear to be any tolerance left in our country, whether you sit in a wheelchair or are standing upright. Attack ideas, not people for holding them.

Why should the fact that he is in a wheelchair make a difference?
I am disabled. If I act like a jerk, no matter where I am, I should expect that some one would call me on it.
Can you imagine what the priest in Shawn Hannity's or Bill O' Rielly's church must go through?

Why should the fact that he is in a wheelchair make a difference?
I am disabled. If I act like a jerk, no matter where I am, I should expect that some one would call me on it.
I don't get a free pass because I'm disabled.
Can you imagine what the priest in Shawn Hannity's or Bill O' Rielly's church must go through?

Did his right hand try to strangle him?
Posted by: Old Hat on August 9, 2006 at 2:24 PM

OMG. I'm dyin' here...

How, pray tell, can someone be a "secular Christian"?

Quite simple: by being raised as a Christian and/or by being in and a part of Christian culture, but not personally believing in God and/or the divinity of Jesus Christ.

kkkKKKKKIIILLLLLLLLL. yea there now I feel republican again.

There does not appear to be any tolerance left in our country, whether you sit in a wheelchair or are standing upright. Attack ideas, not people for holding them. Posted by: ArchModerate2006

Like many posters here, I don't dislike a rightwing scum like Krauthammer because he's in wheelchair. I dislike him because he's a lying partisan sack of shit.

In any case, we are nothing but the sum of our ideas. Krauthammer holds hateful wrong-headed views. Therefore, Krauthammer is a hateful wrong-headed person. Unless, of course, you don't believe in holding people accountable for their beliefs.

He's just another typical ignorant, uneducated, Repug. appologist and liar.

When in doubt, just hate them.

Isn't it true that people who talk about themselves in the third person are often serial killers.

You're thinking of Bob Dole, but he was primarily a politician and only occasionally a serial killer.

Maybe we should round up all evil bad people and ship them off to an island. Then we would all be good and think the same.

When in doubt, just hate them.

Oh there's no doubt.

Had I been in that congregation, I would have looked at my family members and a couple of the big guys would have just wheeled his hateful ass out...ooops...that was the stairs...where is the ramp again?

Seriously, the Rabbi should have had him removed, Mr. nationally sindicated columnist or not.

Maybe we should round up all evil bad people and ship them off to an island.

Hey I'd settle for the electorate at least to stop f'in re-electing them.
(I don't quite get your point Arch)

This is totally out of character, the Krauthammer I have seen has always been very soft spoken yet highly intellegent. I find it hard to believe he would acted as described in a house of worship.
As for his views I have found them well thought out and based on strong facts and exceptional reason. I agree with him 98% of the time
As far as wishing for Peace thats fine but wishing and praying have never delievered peace. The only way you get peace is to eliminate those who stand in the way. So all you wimpy liberals can go out a declare world peace and be happy but since the begining of time there have been wars and there will be until the end of time and to think because a man does not wish to compormise with people who sole purpose on the earth is to kill jews and he does put his head in hole and say thats ok we just have to understand these people and things will be fine, well i say right on Charles.

This war will not end in Iraq and it will not end probably in our life time we will continue to have to fight off these insane killers for ever

This doesn't surprise me. For a long time Krauthammer's come off as a total lunatic to me. It started when with the whole "I'm a pyschologist, and I say Clinton's..." back in the 90's. I remember thinking that he was an arrogant prick. He's only gone downhill from there.

He and Dershowitz (sp) have lost a lot in my book. Both are batshit crazy these days.

Bloodthirsty non-combatants.

If this war goes south in a big way, we'll see these loons off PERMANENTLY.

This is totally out of character, the Krauthammer I have seen has always been very soft spoken yet highly intellegent. I find it hard to believe he would acted as described in a house of worship.
As for his views I have found them well thought out and based on strong facts and exceptional reason. I agree with him 98% of the time
As far as wishing for Peace thats fine but wishing and praying have never delievered peace. The only way you get peace is to eliminate those who stand in the way. So all you wimpy liberals can go out a declare world peace and be happy but since the begining of time there have been wars and there will be until the end of time and to think because a man does not wish to compormise with people who sole purpose on the earth is to kill jews and he does put his head in hole and say thats ok we just have to understand these people and things will be fine, well i say right on Charles.

This war will not end in Iraq and it will not end probably in our life time we will continue to have to fight off these insane killers for ever

Why let the power of your arguement take the day when you can call the other side a name?

This war will not end in Iraq and it will not end probably in our life time we will continue to have to fight off these insane killers for ever
This war will not end in Iraq and it will not end probably in our life time we will continue to have to fight off these insane killers for ever

I think we got it as the first take. Let's see...Krauthammer's a sweetie, insane killers won't die, war without end. Yep, got it.

Or am I thinking of an old star Trek episode?

Attack ideas, Not People

Quite simple: by being raised as a Christian and/or by being in and a part of Christian culture, but not personally believing in God and/or the divinity of Jesus Christ. Posted by: Disputo

You've just defined what is commonly known as a humanist. I guess by your standards you can be a secular Nazi as long as you aren't invading a European country (or the Soviet Union) and bent on the extermination of Jews, communists, Gypsies, etc., etc.

Either you are a Christian or you aren't. Ditto for being Jewish. If you aren't professing the faith, why would you wear a modified badge signifying your junior membership?

Kevin: "Those neocon hawks are such a charming bunch, aren't they?"

You, too, could be just as charming, if only you'd conclude that God personally authorized you to smite the blasphemers, the heathen, the unworthy and the impure on His behalf.

As a progressive/liberal who is part of the disability rights movement and has been using a wheelchair for over 25 years, I place Charles Krauthammer in the category of "Uncle Tom" disabled people who never spoke a word of support over the Americans with Disabilities Act or civil rights for people with disabilities, but are all too happy to reap the benefits. On the other hand, as a supporter of free speech for everyone, I support his right to voice his neoconservative and reactionary opinions to anyone who'll listen -- and, just because he's in a wheelchair I don't think that's any reason you can't yell right back at him if you disagree with him.

To paraphrase Gen. Jack D. Ripper in "Dr. Strangelove, Krauthammer is merely raising the alarm about " ... Arab subversion and the international Arab conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids"

We should kill the terrorists not appease them. - Al

Or we can help them get all their family members out of the country, then we can fain an attack on them and after alittle while later, go attack someone else and claim that someone else was the central front on terrorism and that no one much cares about the original terrorist anymore and then we can effectively pardon the terrorist by shutting down the intellegence unit at the CIA meant to hunt down said terrorist.

Meanwhile we instead can become accomplaces to the terrorist - aiding and abbetting them - by helping the terrorist in their aims of creating fear in our population - by reminding people that they should be affraid and by summoning their fears of terror as appossed to summoning their courage (see Churchill in WWII summoning his nations courage instead of fear).

We can do this at every point that it is political expediant using a color coded terror chart.

And while we are at it, we can help are enemies in their effort to divide and conquor us, by creating political divisions in our country by skillfully using wedge issues whenever it is political expediant to do so.

On second thought, Perhaps Al was right, maybe we should kill the terrorist, but that would mean electing democrats who didn't see the existence of terrorist as political assets and indirect allies.

My point is simple. We as a country have grown intolerant of opinions other than our own. We do not trust the power of our ideas to direct the course of our nation. We choose instead to expend our energies in the destruction of those who hold other ideas. We are a country of close minded ideological pimps protecting our corners. The neighborhood is going to hell.

You've just defined what is commonly known as a humanist.

Uh, no it's not.

I guess by your standards you can be a secular Nazi as long as you aren't invading a European country (or the Soviet Union) and bent on the extermination of Jews, communists, Gypsies, etc., etc.

LOL. I have rarely seen such a ridiculously casual application of Godwin's Law. Congrats.

You really snookered me. I honestly didn't realize that you were a troll. I'll be sure to ignore you in the future.

Seems to me that Jesus was a humanist.

Or Humanist and Godist all at one and the same time.

JeffII - Judaismis more than a religion, it is a culture. I love my culture, but rarely practice my religion. I'm more of a secular humanist with overtones of Jewish culture. Okay, okay - it's the food. The food keeps pulling me back...

Maybe we should round up all evil bad people and ship them off to an island.

Good idea Ensign Milqtoast! Are you volunteering to be cruise director?

Then we would all be good and think the same. Posted by: ArchModerate2006

No. I'm pretty sure you and I will never think alike.

Jesus tossed the money changers from the temple. Does that make him a pre-neocon hawk?

Jesus tossed the money changers from the temple. Does that make him a pre-neocon hawk?

No, it just forced them to move over to K - street.

It is true that some Muslims did all those things you describe, but that doesn't mean that all Muslims are guilty.
Of course not. But I can see that my last post could have given the impression that's what I meant. Not pedantic enough on myself, I guess.

Mister Pedantic is neither a serial killer nor a rap artist. Just another @$$#ole with a sarcastic, sometimes puerile, sense of humor, 'cuz there just are not enough of those around here!

(But I have been mistaken for Bob Dole! It's my sunny disposition)

No. I'm pretty sure you and I will never think alike.

Which of you is the evil bad person?

I hold strong views. However, I express them without resorting to the personal attack.

1. Argue the facts when the facts support your cause.

2. Argue the rules when the facts don't support your cause.

3. Attack the person when neither the facts nor the rules serve your cause.

When you attack the person, it means you can't win your arguement based on the merits.

I take your comments as a concession.

signed..Ensign Milqtoast

can someone clarify for me whether it is O.K. to slug a guy in a wheelchair during the services.

No, the proper Zionist response is to wait until services are over, and shoot a Hellfire missle into his lap.

Isn't it obvious? We are all considered evil by someone if we dare to express any opinion on any subject other than those that of the beholder. I suggest we just shoot the messenger.

signed...the "evil" Ensign Milqtoast

Freedom Fighter: "Sure, you can look through the ages and document all sorts of Christian misdeeds. But with Moslems, the atrocities are all very much contemporary."

Right. And in the Bosnian town of Srebrenica in 1995, I suppose those 8,000 Muslim men and boys threw themselves in mass graves and then shot themselves en masse, just so the secular humanists controlling the United Nations could persecute all those poor, God-fearing Serbian Christians.

Jeffll: "You've just defined what is commonly known as a humanist. I guess by your standards you can be a secular Nazi as long as you aren't invading a European country (or the Soviet Union) and bent on the extermination of Jews, communists, Gypsies, etc., etc."

Jesus himself taught us, "Judge not, lest you be judged."

The noted 19th-century women's suffragette Susan B. Anthony said, "I always distrust people who know so much about what God wants them to do to their fellows."

True faith is reflective, and urges people to act with humility and compassion as they seek to better both themselves and the lives of others.

Blind faith cloaks its adherents in a false sense of personal superiority, thus justifying their provocative public behavior toward those people whom they deem unworthy of respect, simply for a failure or unwillingness to subscribe or conform to the believers' arbitrary standards of social behavior and thought.

I ask you, to which faith do you subscribe?

JeffII - Judaismis more than a religion, it is a culture. I love my culture, but rarely practice my religion. I'm more of a secular humanist with overtones of Jewish culture. Okay, okay - it's the food. The food keeps pulling me back... Posted by: Global Citizen

Nope. Give me an example, beyond food (a particularly odd example for you to site given the prohibition), of Jewish culture that is not religiously based and/or oriented?

Give me an example, beyond food (a particularly odd example for you to site given the prohibition), of Jewish culture

Food is prohibited in Judaism?

Who knew?

JeffII: Lemme see. Unique history based upon a the experiences of specific tribal groups; a specific, historic homeland, unique language(s) (Hebrew/Yiddish), idea that if mother is Jewish, the child is/will always be Jewish regardless of the religiousity of the child, DNA evidence of specific, unique genetic traits/history. It seems like a culture to me.

I support his right to voice his neoconservative and reactionary opinions to anyone who'll listen

Michael, I think the issue wasn't Krauthammer's right to voice his opinions, but his poor manners in starting to bellow these opinions at the rabbi in the middle of a service. Never been to a synagogue but in the Protestent church my parents took me to, such behavior was frowned on.

Either you are a Christian or you aren't. Ditto for being Jewish. If you aren't professing the faith, why would you wear a modified badge signifying your junior membership?

At least in the Jewish case because "Jewish", as well as being a religious label, is also the label for an ethnicity, which is inherently a cultural identity; "secular Jew" makes a lot of sense—"secular" doesn't denote a "junior" membership, its a disambiguation of which of two distinct but not quite orthogonal meanings of the term are meant.

"Secular Christian" makes a little less sense, though on the other hand I can't think of a better label for people to whom Christian identity is important, but no particular religious ideology is associated with the identity.

The rabbi had offered some timid endorsement of peace — peace essentially on Israel's terms — but peace anyway.

Does Krauthammer flip whenever he hears the lines of the Kaddish hu ya'aseh shalom alenu v'al kol Yisroel", "may He bring peace to us and all Israel"?

Considering that (mourners'/full) Kaddish (not including Hatzi Kaddish which doesn't have this line) is said 3+ times in any given Jewish service, he flipped out quite a bit, I presume. Or does he just mouth through the prayers and not try to understand what they actually mean?

Either you are a Christian or you aren't. Ditto for being Jewish.

No, hardly ditto. It's quite possible to identify as Jewish in a cultural/ethnic/family sense while not following, or even rejecting, Jewish religious practice.

Nope. Give me an example, beyond food (a particularly odd example for you to site given the prohibition), of Jewish culture that is not religiously based and/or oriented?

The entire history of comedy in America....

Let me go back to my old "Parris" anthropology textbook and see what defines a culture. It weighs nine pounds, I'm not taking it off the shelf, so I'll just wing it:

A sense of community, a shared language, the commity among members of the same group, a shared homeland and history unique unto a group of people. Shared traditions and proscribed rituals (specifically about death) both religious and non-religious in nature. a sharing of the pool of knowledge, so to speak, so every generation doesn't have to invent the matzo ball all by ourselves.

"Secular Christian" makes a little less sense, though on the other hand I can't think of a better label for people to whom Christian identity is important, but no particular religious ideology is associated with the identity.

There are plenty of atheists and agnostics who, eg, celebrate Christmas/Easter because they grew up celebrating Christmas/Easter.

There are plenty of atheists and agnostics who grew up Christian and draw their ethical framework from Christianity.

Heck, there are plenty of atheists and agnostics who grew up Christian and still attend church regularly due to familial obligations or to socialize.

"Secular Christian" is a perfectly fine description for these people.

Stefan, although not Jewish lays claim to a little corner of that comedy legacy. Are you sure your mother wasn't Nina Bloomberg from Flushing, Stefan? You are way too funny to be an anglo...

JeffII: Lemme see. Unique history based upon a the experiences of specific tribal groups;

Would that be the "unique" Russian, German, French, Ethiopian, Ashkenazi, Sepharadim, etc., etc. histories of a "specific tribal group"?

a specific, historic homeland,

Would that be the one currently in dispute know historically as Canaan, Palestine, Judea, Israel, and Trans-Jordan occupied and/or controlled over the last couple of millennia by Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Rome, Persia, Omar, Turkey and Britain (among others), and whose only claim to legitimacy as a sovereign land is based on a religious (there's that word again) document propertied to be the "word of God"?

unique language(s) (Hebrew/Yiddish),

Big deal. There are lots of singular languages that do not constitute a unique culture, and some cultures (Chinese, for example) feature multiple languages. And Yiddish is a derivation of German.

idea that if mother is Jewish, the child is/will always be Jewish regardless of the religiousity of the child,

That's Biblical nonsense as well.

DNA evidence of specific, unique genetic traits/history. It seems like a culture to me.
Posted by: Shine

Oh, yes. "Unique genetic traits" shared by some, what, 200 million of the other Semitic people of the Middle East? And then there's all those European, Russia, Ethiopian, Chinese, etc., etc., Jews with different DNA all together.

ahem, erik paulson, ckelly, and disputo - You can quibble about the level of sympathy or concern reflected in the Krauthammer quotes, but recall we were discussing C. L Rosenberg's assertion that Krauthammer hates all Arabs, and all he wants is the destrution of Lebanon. The 3 quotes show the wrongness of Rosenberg's description.

Let me add that there are two other definitions of "hating all Arabs" that are sometimes followed. One is hating all terrorist Arabs. Some think it wrong to harshly criticize any Arabs, no matter what they do. E.g., the UN refuses to label Hezbollah as "terrorists."

Also, some people think that sympathizing with Arabs means blaming the US, Israel, or the Jews. For them, it doesn't count when Arabs harm other Arabs.

How about the fact that I am walking around with both of the breast cancer genes, BRCA-1 and BRCA-2. Show me a woman who is not of Jewish descent who has those genetic markers. I've worked in medical labs and done the genetic testing, and I have never seen it unless the patient was Jewish. Specific genetic traits do exist and are easily verifiable now. Sometimes they are a bite in the ass, but verifiable none the less.

Having watched Krauthammer on TV and having read his columns, I am forced to the conclusion that he is full of hatred and is the probably the most mean spirited man on the planet.
His latest outbursts would confirm that he is morally and ethically diseased.
A horrible man for whom I doubt even Pat Robertson could arrange salvation.

ericatruth: Tried to access your site and got a 404, site not found message.

Posted by: Global Citizen on July 29, 2005 at 5:20 PM | PERMALINK

From the "lowering the bar" thread over a year ago. Feel free to check it out yourself.

Sorry. Wrong damn thread.

ex lib:

1) you were asked to:

Come up with a link that shows Krauthammer 'express[ing] a word of sympathy for an Arab, anywhere'.

and you failed.

2) so you retroactively expand this to include:

we were discussing C. L Rosenberg's assertion that Krauthammer hates all Arabs

even given this higher hurdle, you fail. The quotes you provide do not in any way counter the assertion that K hates all Arabs.

3) furthermore you gratuitously add the strawman that M.J. Rosenberg said K wants:

all he wants is the destruction of Lebanon.

Nice. Of course, Rosenberg never said this. What Rosenberg said (quoting you quoting him): "For [Krauthammer], the only good part of this war is the damage done to Lebanon."

Again, none of your quotes refutes this.

And let us not forget that this diversion started with you picking a couple of irrelevent quotes from Rosenberg in a strained effort to trash his central story, for which you have no evidence to counter and for which Rosenerg even provided further details (including witnesses) for you (or others) to confirm the incident.

If you are something other than a paid GOP hack, I suggest you follow-up and verify (or not) Rosenberg's story and report back to us.

I will never impersonate a friend again! The name keeps changing back. I'm logging off and back on, before GOP thinks he knows something.

"And for all of you trolls, a challenge: find me one, just one, quote from a leftist/liberal directly urging that we appease terrorists (meaning al-Queda and its subsidiaries, and not merely being opposed to the republican war "policy" in Iraq) and allow them to defeat us."

I'll up the ante on the troll challenge: I dare just one troll to explain why their hero Georgie boy still hasn't gone after the people responsible for 9/11. Osama and the men who supported him and paid for 9/11 - who are still sponsering terrorism - are still free, and Bush will never touch them because they are his friends.

Why do trolls hate America so much that they'd rather support starting wars with everyone but the people responsible for 9/11 - the Saudis?

How about the fact that I am walking around with both of the breast cancer genes, BRCA-1 and BRCA-2. Show me a woman who is not of Jewish descent who has those genetic markers. Posted by: Global Citizen

3 Are specific alterations in BRCA1 and BRCA2 more common in certain populations?

Specific gene alterations have been identified in different ethnic groups. For example, among individuals of Ashkenazi Jewish descent, researchers have found that about 2.3 percent (23 out of 1,000 persons) have an altered BRCA1 or BRCA2 gene. This frequency is about 5 times higher than that of the general population. Among people with alterations in BRCA1 or BRCA2, three particular alterations have been found to be most common in the Ashkenazi Jewish population—two in the BRCA1 gene and one in the BRCA2 gene. It is not known whether the increased frequency of these alterations is responsible for the increased risk of breast cancer in Jewish populations compared with non-Jewish populations. Other ethnic and geographic populations, such as the Norwegian, Dutch, and Icelandic people, also have a higher rate of certain genetic alterations in BRCA1 and BRCA2. This information about genetic differences between ethnic groups may help health care providers determine the most appropriate genetic test to select.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/BRCA

Isn't this where Lieberman and his supporters should be explaining how the rabbi was anti-semitic?

Isn't this where Lieberman and his supporters should be explaining how the rabbi was anti-semitic?

Self-loathing. Get your slurs straight. ;)

"And FF, before we get too snarky about the "religion of peace" we need to read a bit of Christian history, don't we?"

moral equivalence

"When in doubt, just hate them."

The liberal mantra.

"we will continue to have to fight off these insane killers for ever"

So, permanent war is the only other option then. America is such a nice place these days.

"I place Charles Krauthammer in the category of "Uncle Tom" disabled people"

Please, people, think according to your class! I mean, race! I mean, affliction!

"Blind faith cloaks its adherents in a false sense of personal superiority"

Note that liberalism is a faith.

Could someone please explain to me why people who have no stake in how other people define themselves tell other people who and what they are? It's so respectful as well as nauseatingly arrogant. Who are you to say that people aren't Jewish when you yourself aren't even Jewish and are clearly ignorant about the history of Judaism, as both a religion and a people?

Here's a little lesson for you-- Jews have been debating the existence of God and the nature of faith for centuries, one of the central tenants of Judaism is that questions and doubt and even disbelief don't make us any less Jewish. It is one of the ways that Judaism is fundamentally different than Christianity.

I'm a secular Jew as well as a lesbian-- but according to some people I am neither because a straight Christian knows what I am and how I feel and how I should live better than I do, because they know and understand everything. Nice God-complex you got there.

JeffII:

Are you being purposely obtuse? Have you never met a person who self-identified as Jewish, jet professed no belief in a supreme being? That would make such a person a "secular Jew" or perhaps someone who followed Humanistic Judaism. It's quite possible to self-identify as a Jew, without particular concern for whether one's ancestors were Ashkenazi or Sephardic, to follow Jewish dietary practices, speak some Hebrew, have a bar- or bat-Mitzvah, and even attend services, without believing in Yahweh/Jehovah.

Likewise, it's possible to believe in basic Christian morality,to celebrate Christmas and Easter, to have your children baptized, and even to belong to a church without believing that Jesus Christ was the son of God, or even that there is a God, for that matter.

Look, you're in Japan, right? The overwhelming majority of Japanese people report that they have no religious beliefs, but a large percentage self-identify as "Buddhist" and a smaller percentage as "Shinto". They follow cultural conventions from those faiths, they use their ceremonial rituals, they feel squeamish when elements of their belief systems are violated (the jinja at Haneda kuko being one example) . . . and they almost completely reject their cosmogony.

It doesn't particularly matter that these communal identities are "religious based," if they are not indicative of religous belief. You may not like using the terms "secular Jew" and "secular Christian" for such people. That's fine; feel free to use whatever nomenclature you desire. But if you wish to communicate with other people, you'd do well to use agreed-upon definitions for things.

For example, you may wish to call those appendages at the ends of your legs "hands", but if you want to talk about them to other people, or describe some problem with them to your doctor, you'd do well to use the term "feet".

Either you are a Christian or you aren't. Ditto for being Jewish. If you aren't professing the faith, why would you wear a modified badge signifying your junior membership?
Posted by: JeffII on August 9, 2006 at 6:10 PM |

Give me an example, beyond food (a particularly odd example for you to site given the prohibition), of Jewish culture that is not religiously based and/or oriented?
Posted by: JeffII on August 9, 2006 at 6:49 PM |

Give me an example, beyond food (a particularly odd example for you to site given the prohibition), of Jewish culture that is not religiously based and/or oriented?
Posted by: JeffII on August 9, 2006 at 6:49 PM

I suppose that means you've never had kugel or a knish or latkes? You poor dear.

Yes, there are prohibitions on certain kinds of foods, some foods have to be eaten or handled a certain way, but trust me, we eat. Have you ever met a Jewish person in RL?

I am not sure if Kraut is a quadripeglic or paraplegic but the comment upthread about mental illness may be somewhat on the right path. I deal with quads and paras quite a bit. I don't have any statistics but a good majority of the ones I deal with are on some pretty major pain/anti-depressant/psych drugs which would affect their mental clarity. Ofcourse Kraut was a psychiatrist and I have absolutely no idea that he has any psych problems. It,however, seems obvious to be that a lot of these neocons have som psych issues. To me, Rummy,Cheney and Bush just seem mentally "off." I don't mean this snarkily either. I sometimes wonder if these people are old alkies and druggies whose brains are beginning to suffer from some form of organic brain disease.

There is a very warm corner of hell waiting for Mr. Krauthammer.