McCain will suffice, then. Tuff luck to the polygamy vote.

Yeah, because we Christians certainly hate Senator Hatch with a passion. Trust me, we'll take Romney over McCain any day of the week!

I just checked, and Sen. Bob Bennett, R-Utah, is also a Mormon.

Mitt Romney is an asshole. But then, ALL Republicrooks are assholes.

Did anyone else misread this thread title as "Mitt and the Morons" initially?

Just asking.

Rightwing Christian serial polygamists secretly admire Mormons for their brave exercise of parallel polygamy.

Mitt is a shoe-in.

Kevin: ... a "Wall Street tycoon" who was unimpressed with the Republican presidential field.

The sad truth is that whoever the Republicans nominate in 2008 will be the next president, because the Republicans will steal the election, just like they stole the last two presidential elections.

Get over it.

Mormonism is a cult.

They should know thier place in the right-wing movement.

They'll overlook it. Sure, it'll be an issue, but no matter what his baggage is (or is perceived to be), he'll still be considered preferable to any Democrat. Because Democrats want to ban the Bible and allow homosexuals to molest your children, dontcha know.

NeoChristian,

Cult + Time = Religon.

Rightwing Christian serial polygamists secretly admire Mormons for their brave exercise of parallel polygamy.

This snarky comment is supposed to demonstrate the religous bigotry of Christian conservatives, but it actually shows that Disputo is the bigot.

More generally, I don't think Republican voters are as narrow minded as you liberals think they are. Note how they have embraced orthodox Jews (christian Conservatives often have rabbis as speakers at their meetings), blacks like Powell, Rice and Thomas. They haven't complained that the Republican National Chairman is presumably gay (having been outed by a nasty liberal group.)

What got McCain in trouble with organized evangelicals in 2000 was his attack on their fundraising practices. If Romney takes a different position he will get a different reaction.

Politically conservative evangelicals are highly motivated by the people they know they dislike, mostly prominent liberals and the media. They are much less motivated than their counterparts of decades ago were by their dislike of non-Protestant Christians or even Jews and Mormons. Partly this has to do with a commendable increase in tolerance; it also, I suspect, has to do with the short shrift many modern evangelicals give to theology. The differences between Catholicism and Protestantism as confessions are simply not as well understood as they used to be. So evangelicals are delighted rather than alarmed by President Bush's nomination of two politically conservative Catholics to the Supreme Court.

It is possible, if evangelical voters and particularly evangelical organizations decide Mitt Romney is just too liberal or too New England for their tastes, that their dislike may express itself in anti-Mormon rhetoric. Anti-Mormon prejudice, though, is not likely to be as big a problem for Romney in Republican primaries as it would be should he get the nomination and seek Democratic votes in the general election.

I'm thinking 'kill.' Southern Baptists and other evangelicals are still a bit too suspicious of Mormons and the LDS faith. They've gotten as far as being able to make common cause with Catholics, but the LDS is a much bigger stretch for them, and they're still a ways away.

And there's, erm, fundamental reasons for that. From a Protestant Christian perspective, the LDS faith is much more different from mainstream Christianity in many ways than Roman Catholicism is. I'm hardly an expert on the Mormons, but I'd have no trouble putting together some commercials to play on 'Christian' radio stations that would absolutely kill Romney's chances, just on the basis of his faith.

It isn't that anything's wrong with the way Mormons do things; it's just that it's different by the standards of non-LDS Christianity, and it would be a cinch to use that in a way that grated on evangelical sensibilities, without any slanting or distortion of the truth, but simply by portraying the right details about LDS without explaining them in terms of the LDS faith as a whole.

A Mormon teaching is that everyone should store one year's supply of food in their home at all times.

The sad truth is, that these days, that is a very good teaching for everyone to practice, whether they are Mormons or not.

results from the latest Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll further support Sullivan’s argument by finding that thirty-seven percent of those questioned would not vote for a Mormon candidate simply on the basis of religion.

I need to store a year's worth of refrigeration. Next summer is going to be hot without electricity in my desert home.

The hardcore evangelical protestant Christian Right—a political movement whose religious cloak is, for its leaders, a matter of expediency rather than any particular faith—has been reaching out for new blood and seeking to build strategic political alliances with "traditionalist" Catholics, Orthodox Jews, and other religious groups that share their political values for quite some time. Mormons really are a natural constituency for their brand of politics.

I said:

Rightwing Christian serial polygamists secretly admire Mormons for their brave exercise of parallel polygamy.

ex-liberal belches:

This snarky comment is supposed to demonstrate the religous bigotry of Christian conservatives

No. It is supposed to demonstrate the religious hypocrisy of rightwing Christians, as anyone at a third grade reading level can decipher.

ex-liberal spits-up on himself:

but it actually shows that Disputo is the bigot.

Good to see that ex-lib is not above a libelous unsubstantiated assertion when all argument fails him. You are finally earning your check for today.

cmdicely,

The hardcore evangelical protestant Christian Right—a political movement whose religious cloak is, for its leaders, a matter of expediency rather than any particular faith...

Just like yours.

GOP responds to CMD:

I know you are, but what am I?>/i>

I declare victory for our side.

Kevin:

Trust me, the born-again fundies I used to deal with down in your neck of the woods think Mormonism is a cult, not far removed from Satan-worshiping.

That said, their distaste of anything even remotely moderate, to say nothing of liberal, would likely hold their noses and vote against the moderate/liberal.

Amy Sullivan cites a gubernatorial election in Arizona as "evidence" for her argument:

"On election day, Salmon lost to Napolitano by a razor-thin margin. Napolitano won in part by picking up votes among moderate female voters, but also because Salmon ran far behind congressional candidates in the most conservative and heavily evangelical districts. In each of these precincts, his support was between 10 and 20 points lower than right-wing congressmen Trent Franks and Jeff Flake. Exit polls aren't available for 2002, but a look at the precinct results makes it clear that some of these conservative voters must have even split their tickets, casting a vote for Napolitano while also backing the extremely conservative congressional candidate."

The only problem with this is that Jeff Flake is also a Mormon. A rather prominent one.

So I guess the argument is: being a Mormon costs you evangelical votes, except when it doesn't.

Brilliant.

GOP, for your lame attempt at a schoolyard "What you say is what you are" type of insult to even make sense, I'd have to be associated with a public political movement with an (overt, at least) religious identity.

my gawd!! a mormon senator from utah!!!! wow!!! must be a lot of tolerant folks out there, thomas!

Mormonism will come into play in some way or other, but I think Romney's lack of experience & his demeanor (he often comes off as a Boy Scout on speed) will play a more crucial role in his candidacy. Will people really turn to a candidate who comes to the campaign as lacking in experience as GWB was when we can see what such a lack of experience has led to in this administration ? Will they turn to a man who has practically no record to run on since he has been an absentee, hands-off Governor for most of his term ? He's desperately hoping his actions with the Big Dig fiasco will be his "Calvin Coolidge Moment" (i.e. analogous to the Boston Police Strike) & establish a national image. That along with his "saving the Salt Lake Olympics" are pretty thin gruel to feed a run for the highest office in the land, though. And if you think Mormonism is a cult, then take a look sometime at Bain Inc., the consulting group he headed. Under his tenure, the consultants-- affectionately known as "Bainiacs" --were renowned for their Stepford demeanor & secretiveness. A friend whose company endured a Bain consultancy liked to refer to them as "pigeons" loosed on his office only to "fly around the room, shitting on everything, then leaving." If he's the nominee, the Republicans lose & I think the Powers That Be in the party know it. From where I sit in sunny Massachusetts, if Mitt-- whose oblivious campaign once printed up posters saying "Mitt happens" --appears on the national ticket, it will be as Vice President, or not at all.

cmdicely,

GOP, for your lame attempt at a schoolyard "What you say is what you are" type of insult to even make sense, I'd have to be associated with a public political movement with an (overt, at least) religious identity.

No you wouldn't. Your own religion is even more of a "cloak" than that of evangelical protestants. At least they sorta, kinda act like they take their religion seriously, whereas in your case it appears to have all the significance of a fashion statement.

You've missed out on the latest meme, Kevin.

McCain and Lieberman will lead the Independent ticket.

Repubs are going to field some super rightwing extremist scapegoat, intended to lose, in order to purge the party of the ill will directed at them from 8 years of Bush.

Then McCain/Lieberman will take office in the name of "unity" bipartisanship, and love.

Gore/Clinton(Hillary) will, of course, get their asses handed to them.

Mormonism *will* kill Romney's candidacy.

McCain is a nonstarter for all but Northeasterners and moderates elsewhere - a small minority.

The rest will unite around Huckabee, Allen, or another.

The fundamentalist problem is certainly there, but it's hardly the biggest problem. He's a moderate from a state has become the definition of liberal. (Actually, he's from Michigan, where is father was a well liked moderate governor even amongst the union controlled state.) But now Mitt has surpassed his father and become governor of Massachusetts and no amount of bible thumping will overcome that.

Your own religion is even more of a "cloak" than that of evangelical protestants.

I didn't say anythign about anyone's "religion", nor did I say anything about "evangelical protestants" in general. So, even were that true (which, of course, I disagree that is even though, at the same time, I would want to be clear that I don't think most evangelical protestants religion is a "cloak" at all), it would be completely irrelevant as justification to your response to my statement regarding the nature of the Christian Right as a political movement.

I will personally donate $20 to GOP's fav charity if he/she can demonstrate that he/she understands what cmdicely said at 7:04pm.

More generally, I don't think Republican voters are as narrow minded as you liberals think they are. Note how they have embraced orthodox Jews (christian Conservatives often have rabbis as speakers at their meetings), blacks like Powell, Rice and Thomas. They haven't complained that the Republican National Chairman is presumably gay (having been outed by a nasty liberal group.)

Quick, name me a black Republican in Congress. Or an openly-gay Republican elected official.

The sad truth is that Republicans will tolerate minorities such as Rice, Powell or Mehlmann as tokens in appointed positions, as camouflage for the party's racist base. They survive only by hitching themselves to a more powerful white, (ostensibly) straight, (ostensibly) Christian man who then hands them a position as a gift. When it comes to actually electing someone black or gay, though, the rank and file of Republican voters just won't do it.

I'm curious as to how much the average American really knows about Mormonism. Further, I wonder how people's attitudes towards Mormonism will change as they learn more about it, which they most certainly will if Romney becomes a serious presidential candidate. Knowing what I know about Mormonism, I don't think people are really going to embrace it.

cmdicely,

I didn't say anythign about anyone's "religion", nor did I say anything about "evangelical protestants" in general.

Classic cmdicely. If all else fails, resort to meaningless pedantry.

Okay, replace "religion" with "religious cloak," and "evangelical protestants" with "the hardcore evangelical protestant Christian Right." It makes no difference to the point. Your own "religious cloak" is even more of a pretense than theirs.

Hey Kev - I know we enjoy masturbating over the possibility of elections 2+ years away. But frankly, a LOT could happen between now and Nov 08. Dems could take congress and impeach Bush. We could have martial law in the US, or a civil war. Or we could end up involved in the coming Israel-Iran war (Reuters just reported finding Iranian Revolutionary Guards among dead Hezbollah in Lebanon - if this is true, that's a big effing deal. This antizionist liberal thinks that's an unacceptable provocation on Iran's part.)

Disputo,

I will personally donate one billion dollars to the Michael Moore Memorial Scholarship for Deranged Liberals if you can demonstrate that you are capable of tying your shoelaces.

GOP, I take that as a refusal to accept my challenge and confirmation that it is fruitless to engage you in dialogue since you are incapable of parsing simple English.

I have stated this before - I live ten blocks from the national headquarters of the VFW. I talk to a lot of vets and while Kerry may not be wildly popular among these folks, it is pure folly to say that Bush/Cheney have their undying love.

I keep hearing the name "Hagel" being whispered on the breeze. He is a senator who could actually stand on his record.

If he ran, he would have my support, and I am a registered Democrat - as if that surprises anyone here.:)

Osama: Or we could end up involved in the coming Israel-Iran war (Reuters just reported finding Iranian Revolutionary Guards among dead Hezbollah in Lebanon - if this is true, that's a big effing deal. This antizionist liberal thinks that's an unacceptable provocation on Iran's part.)

Actually, Iranian Revolutionary Guards have been closely working with and advising Hezbollah almost since their inception in the early 1980s. Israel has always known they've been there. I don't known why that would necessarily be any more of a provocation now than any time in the last 20 plus years -- unless, of course, Israel chooses to be shocked, shocked! and make it one.

Well that's an easy one - over-under-around-&-through. They teach that on that bastion of liberalism, Sesame Street. Anyone born after 1965 knows that little ditty.

Get to donatin'. We trust the check will clear.

I share GC's sentiments about Chuck Hagel.

Sadly, at this point I could care less about my disgreements with Hagel over domestic policy. I just want someone as commander in chief who has a snowball's chance of unwinding and repairing the damage Bush has caused in the foreign policy arena.

My dopple-ganger strikes again!

Get to donatin'. We trust the check will clear.
Posted by: Disputo on August 9, 2006 at 7:21 PM | PERMALINK

Pocket change for Halliburton execs.

stefan-

The sad truth is that Republicans will tolerate minorities such as Rice, Powell or Mehlmann as tokens in appointed positions, as camouflage for the party's racist base.

The first black male ever elected to a state-wide office in Ohio--

Ken Blackwell(R)

The first black female ever elected to a state-wide office in Ohio--

Jeanette Bradley(R)

Gay? Well, Bob Taft always did strike me as a little 'queer'-(but that's another story...)

Then again, the Dems have never even tried...

Global Citizen/Disputo,

Quick. Enter half a dozen more posts under other fake names agreeing with yourself, but this time try changing the email address to avoid giving yourself away. Maybe no one will notice.

Sure, statewide. I was thinking more in terms of national positions.

Then again, the Dems have never even tried...

Never even tried what?

Okay, GOP, lemme 'splain the game to you. It is okay to impersonate a friend, just give yourself away. Check more than one email and you will see I routinely use mine, and he his. When I mock a moonbat or say something for a friend, I leave the email addy alone to give myself away.

To the penalty box with you for two minutes. Take the rulebook with you.

Okay, GOP, lemme 'splain the game to you.

I'm afraid you've already given your game away, GC. I mean, "Disputo."

Actually, Mitt will not make it out of the primary because of his take on abortion. Or rather his lack thereof. He was for it before he was against it. You see, in order to win the governor's seat up here in MA, he had to be pro-choice. But now he's suddenly pro-life! How about that! Any half-decent pol will bury him with a good attack ad or two.

Check the freakin archives dude. I've been around for a year or longer, and always use my own address. Even when I impersonate a friend, like I just did. And I do that like, once a year. Lighten up! You needn't go beyond this thread to see that, but feel free - pick any one at random. Go to the ardchives from this time last year. Lots of "Global Citizen" posts floating around.

That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Rove?, no that other Republican guy.

I'm a McCain man, but if he gets sick or sidelined somehow, Romney is my second choice right now. There is no way the country is going for another southern smarmy Pat Robertson type, and the Republican primary voters know it.

Hagel isn't a southern smarmy type. He is for real. (Ah jest maught swoon!)

ericatruth: Tried to access your site and got a 404, site not found message.

Posted by: Global Citizen on July 29, 2005 at 5:20 PM | PERMALINK

From the "lowering the bar" thread over a year ago. Feel free to check it out yourself GOP. Disputo and I are distinct people.

Romney has no chance of winning the GOP nomination. South Carolina primary will be end his candidacy.

Same goes for Rudy Guiliani, 3 times married serial adulterer, pro choice, pro gay rights.

McCain is the most likely to win a general election. GOP knows it. They will nominate McCain.

Actually, I'm an indistinct person, who is finding it extremely hilarious that GOP finds his own arguments so poorly persuasive that he is resorting to whining about sock puppets on a forum where anyone can impersonate anyone at anytime.

See? Look at me! I'm GOP! Therefore all my arguments have been nullified.

Wah, wah.

I've been around for a year or longer

Your attempts to rationalize your clear deception are becoming increasingly silly. Obviously, you could have invented your fake identities at any time after you first started posting as "Global Citizen."

Okay, GOP. You got me. I'm a liar.

Okay, GOP. You got me. I'm a liar.

Well, we know that, GC. At least you're finally admitting it.

My favorite part of the article (and I'm surprised nobody brought this up yet) was the characterization of George Allen as "George Bush Lite".

The mind boggles....

Now see, you broke the rules! I was rebooting myu computer and wasn't even on-line, and you impersonated me, and used my email.

Fuck off jackass. I am me. Disputo is Disputo. Having a little fun, and you went fucking insane. Jesus H. Christ I'm glad you don't know where either of us lives! Now give it a rest you knucklehead.

Hey, another really easy way to save face, GOP, before you go off on a rant/tangent whatever is to look at other threads and see if the two "identities" you suspect are one is managing to somehow post simultaneously on two threads.

And now I am done. I don't owe you anything.

GOP, quoting GC: Okay, GOP. You got me. I'm a liar. —Well, we know that, GC. At least you're finally admitting it.

Whereas you, GOP, are merely delusional.

Fuck off jackass.

Fuck off yourself, liar. You're now not only denying using a fake name after being caught doing just that, you're pretending that your own incriminating posts are fakes. You really have no sense of honesty or integrity at all, do you.

Whereas you, GOP, are merely delusional.
Posted by: Rand Careaga

Just how many fake names do you use, GC?

You asked for proof that Disputo could tie his shoes. I, being a smartass, posted the Sesame Street ditty "over-under-around-&-through." All in good fun I used Disputo's handle. Not realizeing the extent of your pathology. Then I went back to my own screen name and more serious matters and other threads. But like a Kid wiuth ADHD who took too much Ritalin, you just can't let go. YOu perserverate and perseverate and perseverate. Let it go - two friends were playing around and you use it as a moral indictment? What a sad little man you must be, alone in your mother's basement.

Type pretty good one handed tho

Just how many fake names do you use, GC?

I should perhaps add "paranoid" to "delusional." I'm easily googled, wanker, and unlike you I post under my own name.

What was the original topic?

You asked for proof that Disputo could tie his shoes. I, being a smartass, posted the Sesame Street ditty "over-under-around-&-through." All in good fun I used Disputo's handle.

That's your story and you're sticking to it. Except when you admit you lied. And except for your email screwup.

What a sad little man you must be,

What a sad little thing you must be, unable to cop even to a relatively minor transgression like this. Makes me wonder what else you've done...

I'm easily googled, wanker,

So is Adolf Hitler, birdbrain. Doesn't make you him, either.

I doubt that the Rovian branch of the Repub hierachy wants Mitt. If he and Hillary were the finalists, they would have a harder time attacking Hillary.

GOP email = none@none.com

Rand Careaga email = rcareaga@_OMIT_mac.com (It is the glory of human intelligence—well, some of 'em—to be more attuned to nuance than the average automated subroutine.)

You, GOP, post under a nom de guerre and a concealed email addy. And you get hot and bothered about someone else posting under two handles? It is to smirk.

Oh, and GOP...how are things out in Phoenix anyway? Hot, I daresay.

And you get hot and bothered about someone else posting under two handles?

I get hot and bothered by liars. And their apologists--you, for example.

Oh, and GOP...how are things out in Phoenix anyway?

I don't know. How are they?

And that my friend is how the GOP and our troll buddy GOP twists reality until it is unrecognizable. Just re-read the thread. There was no "e-mail screw-up" I left it on purpose so the person I spoofed would know who spoofed him. Fuck! What part of all this do you not get.

Lemme try again...Most of us here, like Disputo and Rand and shortstop and craigie and stefan myself are what are commonly known as liberals. A trait common among our kind is something known as a sense of humor, and we occasionaqlly engage in ribbing and good-natured fun...Until some fucktard spoils it all.

As for wondering what else I've done? That's none of your business, but the Major isn't complaining.

There was no "e-mail screw-up" I left it on purpose

Yes, of course you did. Also, you forgot to unplug the iron this morning on purpose.

Lemme try again...Most of us here, like Disputo and Rand and shortstop and craigie and stefan myself are what are commonly known as liberals. A trait common among our kind is something known as a sense of humor,

Well, let's see: I'll give you Al Franken and Molly Ivins. But most of you are so consumed by your political correctness and faux-bleeding hearts you have all the humor of the Nuremburg Trials.

I invite any and all to re-read the thread. See how our fellow human being, clearly off his meds, twisted a playful exchange.

Like none of us have ever played that little game before on a thread of little import. Please! Once I impersonated tbrosz. I left my email so all would know it was me.

Suddenly I am a liar and worthy of criminal indictment because some fucking idiot doesn't get it and has no sense of humor.

Kevin, maybe it is time to register. No, shortstop and I couldn't have fun with identity theft any longer, but the trolls couldn't hit-and-run with annonymous slime anymore, either.

I'm done for the night. My Grandma used to tell me if you lay down with dogs, you get fleas. I've associated myself with this GOP prick long enough that I'm starting to itch.

Goodnight, and have a pleasant tomorrow.

Here's how the world works, GOP: there's no law just yet to prevent anyone from posting behind his personal Cloak of Invisibility, and may this ever remain the case. But if, unlike some of us, you lack the willingness to put your own identity behind your online pronouncements, you should be prepared to accept that your anonymity carries with it certain forfeitures, among these the right to wax wroth persuasively at any irregularities in the posts of your adversaries. Why are we to demand of Global Citizen, who appends to his posts what I presume to be a valid hotmail.com addy, the presentation of credentials in better order than your own, which consist of an alias and a dead-letter office? Answer: no reason at all. I'm amused at the cowardice of the Cloak of Invisibility crowd.

It is indeed a working email address, set up specifically for these boards. I use the same "handle" at Swing State Project and others. I am definitely reachable, and have revealed enough about myself that anyone could, with a little initiative put up my college graduation photo.

What we saw here this afternoon is a microcosm of the tactics used by the GOP. There I was having a little fun, and I got blindsided by I slimeball.

See how our fellow human being, clearly off his meds,

"Off his meds." Such a good one, that. So original. You're not even a creative liar.

Suddenly I am a liar ...

I don't think there's anything sudden about it. I'm sure it's been going on for a long time.

I'm done for the night.

You already said that. And then entered another post five minutes later. But we already know that nothing you say can be trusted, so I guess this isn't terribly surprising.

Soooo...how about that Mitt Romney. I mean, is that guy Mormon or what?

Rand Careaga,

But if, unlike some of us, you lack the willingness to put your own identity behind your online pronouncements, you should be prepared to accept that your anonymity carries with it certain forfeitures, among these the right to wax wroth persuasively at any irregularities in the posts of your adversaries.

I have no idea why you think I or any other anonymous poster "should be prepared to accept" such a ridiculous demand. If you choose to reveal your identity in this venue, that's your business. Personally, I think it's rather unwise. But you don't get to set the rules.

Blindsided? Scarcely. But you might want to sit out the rest of the thread, given that GOP continues to burrow so industriously without your help.

Wallflower...OMG Mitt's a Mormon? Tell me more.

Yeah, dude, he's all like...Mormony and stuff, and when he sees a guy with only one wife he laughs and he's all like, "Monogamy schlnogamy!"and then he gets into a limo with like sixteen women but he says they all just work for him.

Doesn't seem such a ridiculous "demand" to me, but to the fatuous all things will seem ridiculous, and to the certifiably paranoid mere statements of the way the world works will seem like unreasonable "demands." The fact remains: some of us post our opinions with an audit trail. We must be cowards. You conceal your identity: you are a courageous—yes, and a wise—patriot.

Enjoy life behind your mask. Just don't imagine that anyone will ever take seriously your attacks on others' disguises, and we'll get along just fine.

Doesn't seem such a ridiculous "demand" to me,

Gee, there's a surprise.

but to the fatuous all things will seem ridiculous,

Whereas to the delusional, such as yourself, the arrogance of thinking you get to make the rules seems perfectly reasonable. But it's not just that, it's the particular rule you described that demonstrates just how disconnected from reality you are.

The fact remains: some of us post our opinions with an audit trail. We must be cowards.

Providing your real identity in a venue like this is not cowardly. Just a bit foolish.

Providing your real identity in a venue like this is not cowardly. Just a bit foolish.

I've been doing it for years, and have yet to see a downside. What's your problem, o Master of Invisibility? (geez, 93 in Phoenix today? I'd be pissed at someone but for the certainty that people got nothin' to do wit' it). No threatening letters, no hostile email, no assaults on my family...what are you afraid of, big guy? Is this the kind of timid spirit we want supporting Our Brave Boys in Mesopotamia?

I dated a mormon once. One of me was all he could handle.

I've got nothing against Mormons, but would you want your sisters to marry one?

Global Citizen:

If you're still around, darlin' -- please don't take this too seriously. No need to get indignant and defend yourself against someone who is clearly acting like a total asswipe.

I've read the whole thread and it's clear what's going on. I was kind of surprised, too, because I had a couple civil exchanges with GOP. But this ruined it for me. You were clearly just playing around with a Sesame Street reference. GOP was clearly being a world-class asshat about it.

Rand -- good points. I don't reveal my name here, but my handle consists of my actual initials and my email's real. I enjoy writing parody posts sometimes, but I'm also coming to the opinion that it's about time for registration here, too.

GOP:

Do you have any *idea* what kind of an asshole that exchange made you look like?

Bob

I've been doing it for years, and have yet to see a downside.

Dear Mr Careaga,

Thank you for your interest in employment with our company. As part of our recruitment process, we perform a broad based web search to discover additional information about our job applicants. From information obtained through this investigation we have concluded that you are not a suitable candidate.

Sincerely,
etc.

I dated a mormon once. One of me was all he could handle.

Don't let the boys at Church Central find out you're wrecking their system. Next thing you know you'll have them hooked on coffee too!

rmck1,

Do you have any *idea* what an ignorant, arrogant blowhard you look like in pretty much every exchange you engage in?

Oh, Bob….Cuervo is too pedestrian. I suggest Buscdores. It will change your life.

http://www.buscadorestequila.com/ourstory.html

A second choice is Hacienda de Chihuahua, special reserve (each bottle is numbered and also gives the number of the barrel) ~ $50.00. Well worth it.

GOP:

Absolutely :)

You think understanding the psychology of projective identification is, what ... rocket science or something? :)

You were nailed on an issue on which you were clearly wrong.

So since you're apparently not man enough to admit it and move on -- you frantically point fingers at your accusers.

While this behavior is far from mysterious, it doesn't speak highly of your character, GOP.

Bob

Wall...I'm sure they know. Percentage wise, I bet gay Mormans out number gay Southern Bapts. All that repression has some sort of weird impact.

Dear prospective employer:

I'm just past retirement age. My current employer seems to have been satisfied with my performance since I signed on (literally in the mailroom) in the mid-seventies. My pension plan is one of those last "defined benefits" thingies, heh-heh. It's too bad that GOP is terrified of stating his opinions in public lest his livelihood be compromised—guess that's the price we pay for living in the Land of the Free (too bad about those Europeans and Canadians, ground under the boot of tyranny, hey?)

cordially,

rmck1,

You were nailed on an issue on which you were clearly wrong.

Yes, I admit it. The moon isn't made of cheese, after all.

So since you're apparently not man enough to admit it and move on

Oh, not your "...man enough to..." shtick again. You big girly girl, you. Your act is in desperate need of some fresh material.

Keith G:

Yeah ... with straight Mormon women, too. You know the legendary saying about Mormon girls is that they'll do *everything under the sun* before marriage save fuck. And, of course, that covers quite a lot of ground ...

I used to post with a self-described Mormon cultural dissident who lived in the hinterlands of Utah. He was a chemist, fond of both home-brewed psychedelics and pryrotechnics. This was back in the days right before the OKC atrocity. He loved nothing more than ranting about "JBGTs" (jackbooted government thugs, of course) and dreaming of a coming Apocalypse with FedGov. Interesting dude, though. When those Mormons go counterculture -- they do tend to go all balls out. I've heard from an "escaped Mormon" with family out in UT that Mormon meth labs produce quite high-quality product ...

As for high-end booze -- hey, my best friend thinks little of dropping $70 on a LaPhroaig single-malt. Personally, I'm the sort of oaf who couldn't tell the difference between Tanqueray and Seagrams (so I purchase Seagrams when I'm in a gin mood).

I'm sure that handcrafted tequila would be quite wasted on the likes of me, sadly enough ...

Bob

Dear Rand Careaga,

We have no idea why you're writing to us about your life. We have no interest whatsoever in you, your pension plan, your acquaintances, or your opinions about Europe. Frankly, you seem rather odd. I would suggest you seek professional psychiatric help.

Sincerely,
etc.

Let's say we clear the air and talk about something we all can agree on.

How about that Don P? Damn that guy was some kind of asshole, wasn't he? ;)

I'm Global Citizen!

I'm an attention whore!

I'm John Edwards's dead son!

Personally, I'm the sort of oaf who couldn't tell the difference between Tanqueray and Seagrams (so I purchase Seagrams when I'm in a gin mood).

Bombay Sapphire is the gin you want.

Well, one thing is clear:

Stefan has never heard of J.C. Watts or Jim Kolbe.

(and there are have been other black Republicans elected to national office in recent years (I'm not thinking of past figures like Hiram Revels) and probably openly gay ones as well....but these are the immediate and obvious examples.)
Stefan might want to get out of NY a bit more and visit those notorious blue states of Oklahoma and Arizona.

oh, and Steve Gunderson was also openly gay. almost forgot him.

does Stefan even think to doublecheck before writing things like:

"When it comes to actually electing someone black or gay, though, the rank and file of Republican voters just won't do it."

er, except in Oklahoma, Arizona, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, and Connecticut.

In order to simplify matters, I suggest that everyone start posting as GOP.

In order to simplify matters, I suggest that everyone start posting as GOP

Excellent idea! Since he makes no verifiable claim to the monicker, it's not as though he has any grounds for complaint.

Stefan might want to get out of NY a bit more and visit those notorious blue states of Oklahoma and Arizona.

Yes, Republicans from red states have been electing a whole slew of blacks. Can you find them all in this complete list of all the black Congresspeople who've served in the modern era?

In the modern era Representative Oscar DePriest (Republican, Illinois) 1929-1935 Representative Arthur W. Mitchell (Democrat, Illinois) 1935-1943 Representative William Levi Dawson (Democrat, Illinois) 1943-1970 Representative Adam Clayton Powell, Jr. (Democrat, New York) 1945-1967, 1967-1971 Representative Charles Diggs (Democrat, Michigan) 1955-1980 Representative Robert N.C. Nix, Sr. (Democrat, Pennsylvania) 1958-1979 Representative Augustus F. Hawkins (Democrat, California) 1963-1991 Representative John Conyers, Jr. (Democrat, Michigan) from 1965 Representative William L. Clay, Sr. (Democrat, Missouri) 1969-2001 Representative Louis Stokes (Democrat, Ohio) 1969-1999 Representative Shirley Chisholm (Democrat, New York) 1969-1983 Representative George W. Collins (Democrat, Illinois) 1970-1972 Representative Ronald V. Dellums (Democrat, California) 1971-1998 Representative Ralph Metcalfe (Democrat, Illinois) 1971-1978 Representative Parren Mitchell (Democrat, Maryland) 1971-1987 Representative Charles B. Rangel (Democrat, New York) from 1971 Representative Yvonne Brathwaite Burke (Democrat, California) 1973-1979 Representative Cardiss Collins (Democrat, Illinois) 1973-1997 Representative Barbara Jordan (Democrat, Texas) 1973-1979 Representative Andrew Young (Democrat, Georgia) 1973-1977 Representative Harold Ford, Sr. (Democrat, Tennessee) 1975-1997 Representative Julian C. Dixon (Democrat, California) 1979-2000 Representative William H. Gray, III (Democrat, Pennsylvania) 1979-1991 Representative Mickey Leland (Democrat, Texas) 1979-1989 Representative Bennett McVey Stewart (Democrat, Illinois) 1979-1981 Representative George W. Crockett (Democrat, Michigan) 1980-1991 Representative Mervyn M. Dymally (Democrat, California) 1981-1993 Representative Gus Savage (Democrat, Illinois) 1981-1993

Representative Harold Washington (Democrat, Illinois) 1981-1983
Representative Katie Hall (Democrat, Indiana) 1982-1985
Representative Major Owens (Democrat, New York) from 1983
Representative Edolphus Towns (Democrat, New York) from 1983
Representative Alan Wheat (Democrat, Missouri) 1983-1995
Representative Charles Hayes (Democrat, Illinois) 1983-1993
Representative Alton R. Waldon, Jr. (Democrat, New York) 1986-1987
Representative Mike Espy (Democrat, Mississippi) 1987-1993
Representative Floyd Flake (Democrat, New York) 1987-1998
Representative John Lewis (Democrat, Georgia) from 1987
Representative Kweisi Mfume (Democrat, Maryland) 1987-1996
Representative Donald M. Payne (Democrat, New Jersey) from 1989
Representative Craig A. Washington (Democrat, Texas) 1989-1995
Representative Barbara-Rose Collins (Democrat, Michigan) 1991-1997
Representative Gary Franks (Republican, Connecticut) 1991-1997
Representative William J. Jefferson (Democrat, Louisiana) from 1991
Representative Maxine Waters (Democrat, California) from 1991
Representative Lucien E. Blackwell (Democrat, Pennsylvania) 1991-1995
Representative Eva Clayton (Democrat, North Carolina) 1992-2003
Representative Sanford Bishop (Democrat, Georgia) from 1993
Representative Corrine Brown (Democrat, Florida) from 1993
Representative Jim Clyburn (Democrat, South Carolina) from 1993
Representative Cleo Fields (Democrat, Louisiana) 1993-1997
Representative Alcee Hastings (Democrat, Florida) from 1993
Representative Earl Hilliard (Democrat, Alabama) 1993-2003
Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson (Democrat, Texas) from 1993
Representative Cynthia McKinney (Democrat, Georgia) 1993-2003, 2005-
Representative Carrie Meek (Democrat, Florida) 1993-2003
Representative Mel Reynolds (Democrat, Illinois) 1993-1995
Representative Bobby Rush (Democrat, Illinois) from 1993
Representative Robert C. Scott (Democrat, Virginia) from 1993
Representative Walter Tucker (Democrat, California) 1993-1995
Representative Mel Watt (Democrat, North Carolina) from 1993
Representative Albert Wynn (Democrat, Maryland) from 1993
Representative Bennie Thompson (Democrat, Mississippi) from 1993
Representative Chaka Fattah (Democrat, Pennsylvania) from 1995
Representative Sheila Jackson Lee (Democrat, Texas) from 1995
Representative J.C. Watts, Jr. (Republican, Oklahoma) 1995-2003
Representative Jesse Jackson, Jr. (Democrat, Illinois) from 1995
Representative Juanita Millender-McDonald (Democrat, California) from 1996
Representative Elijah Cummings (Democrat, Maryland) from 1996
Representative Julia Carson (Democrat, Indiana) from 1997
Representative Danny K. Davis (Democrat, Illinois) from 1997
Representative Harold Ford, Jr. (Democrat, Tennessee) from 1997
Representative Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick (Democrat, Michigan) from 1997
Representative Gregory W. Meeks (Democrat, New York) from 1998
Representative Barbara Lee (Democrat, California) from 1998
Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones (Democrat, Ohio) from 1999
Representative William Lacy Clay, Jr. (Democrat, Missouri) from 2001
Representative Diane Watson (Democrat, California) from 2001
Representative Frank Ballance (Democrat, North Carolina) 2003-2004
Representative Artur Davis (Democrat, Alabama) from 2003
Representative Denise Majette (Democrat, Georgia) 2003-2005
Representative Kendrick Meek (Democrat, Florida) from 2003
Representative David Scott (Democrat, Georgia) from 2003
Representative G.K. Butterfield (Democrat, North Carolina) from 2004
Representative Emanuel Cleaver (Democrat, Missouri) from 2005
Representative Al Green (Democrat, Texas) from 2005
Representative Gwen Moore (Democrat, Wisconsin) from 2005

Non-voting members
Delegate Walter E. Fauntroy (Democrat, District of Columbia) 1971-1990
Delegate Melvin H. Evans (Republican, Virgin Islands) 1979-1980
Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton (Democrat, District of Columbia) from 1991
Delegate Victor O. Frazer (Democrat, Virgin Islands) 1995-1996
Delegate Donna Christian-Christensen (Democrat, Virgin Islands) from 1997

If you found. J.C. Watts, who described the members of the black caucus as "a bunch of race-hustling poverty pimps" then you got them all!

At least J.C.'s representing his constituency! You go dawg!

As for Stefan, he's probably better off reading about the one (former) black House Republican on the internet than using his valuable time searching endlessly through red states looking high and low for black-leaning Republican voters or their mythical African-American representatives.

As for openly gay Jim Kolbe, he was actually elected as a straight man and served for over one decade before he preemptively outed himself in the face of an impending outing by The Advocate, allowing the voters in his district ten years to get to know and trust him before discovering he was gay and voting him in one more time. Perhaps this stealth strategy is one that more gay candidates in red states should employ.

But your point stands. A couple of guys out of hundreds of examples makes a very compelling argument. At this rate I expect to see at least one more example of red staters voting for an African American or closeted gay in the next fifteen years or so.

FYI-- Mormon filmmaker Mitch Davis has formed a political group with the expressed purpose of publicizing Mormonism & counteract bogotry in advance of a Romney campaign. In addition to advertising, he plans to make a million dollar documentary on the Church of the Latter-Day Saints. You can read more about it here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/19/politics/main1819017.shtml

happy go lucky: As for Stefan, he's probably better off reading about the one (former) black House Republican on the internet than using his valuable time searching endlessly through red states looking high and low for black-leaning Republican voters or their mythical African-American representatives.

Thanks, happy. Nice list.

Nathan: Stefan has never heard of...Jim Kolbe.

I'll bow to Nathan's obvious familiarity with and interest in closeted gay Republicans.

Nathan: Stefan might want to get out of NY a bit more and visit those notorious blue states of Oklahoma and Arizona.

Coincidentally, one of my best friends is from Oklahoma and I hope to get down there this fall or winter for some quail and pheasant hunts with him. I'll tell him you say hi, Nathan!

Happy Go Lucky's list is incomplete. (whether this is intentional or not I don't know.):

There's a certain black Republican Representative from Connecticut that's missing.
There's a certain black Republican Senator from Massachusetts that's missing.

Jim Kolbe came out of the closet in 1996. He is retiring in 2006. That is more than one re-election.

Steve Gunderson was an openly gay Republican Congressman from Wisconsin.

"I'll bow to Nathan's obvious familiarity with and interest in closeted gay Republicans."

I'm unclear on whether this is supposed to be a slur. In actuality, I simply have a memory and familiarity with both parties, rather than simply utilizing stereotypes.

I will note that to the best of my knowledge there have been as many openly gay Republican Congressmen (two) as Democrat (Frank and Baldwin).

In addition, there have been numerous black Republicans that have won Republican primaries for national office but lost in the general election. I would suggest that winning a Republican primary for national office by definition indicates that Republicans will vote for you.

I'm unclear on whether this is supposed to be a slur.

If you believe there's something wrong with being gay, I suppose you could interpret it as a slur.

There's a certain black Republican Representative from Connecticut that's missing.
There's a certain black Republican Senator from Massachusetts that's missing. Steve Gunderson was an openly gay Republican Congressman from Wisconsin.

Those aren't red states. The list, and your point, was about red states, and I qualified that above. It's a pretty self-evident and uninteresting point that blue state voters will vote for African Americans or gays.

Here's what he had to say about being an openly gay Republican from a red state:

Kolbe is a reluctant torchbearer when it comes to gay issues. Some of his reluctance stems from an aversion to talking about his personal life, but some of it comes as a result of the opposition he faces from his own party. "In some ways the Republicans have not come as far as the Democrats," Kolbe admits. "But I think we do better in treating gay people as individuals rather than as members of special interest groups that need special treatment."

Even so, Kolbe has come a long way as an advocate for the cause. In 1996 he joined the overwhelming majority of representatives in voting for the Defense of Marriage Act, a bill that banned federal recognition of same-sex marriage. Gays directed their fury largely at House Republicans who voted for the bill, including Kolbe. As The Advocate prepared a story on the secret gay life of Kolbe and another closeted gay Republican who voted for the bill, Kolbe decided to preempt the story by coming out publicly.

Seems like the rule is as long as you're willing to vote against gay interests you can be a -- or the -- openly gay Republican in the party.

The bit where I owned up to being wrong about Kolbe only being re-elected one time got chopped out, sorry about that.

"It's a pretty self-evident and uninteresting point that blue state voters will vote for African Americans or gays."

well, Stefan's assertion was not limited to "red-state Republican voters"...he said "Republican voters"....

but like I noted: there appear to have been as many openly gay Republican Congressmen as Democrats.

oh, and western Wisconsin is not blue-state territory.

it's no secret (and easily verified) that Wisconsin is a red state except for Madison and Milwaukee proper (Milwauke's suburbs -- Mequon, Waukesha, Oconomowoc; elect Republicans).

Gunderson was elected by reliably Republican voters. (Milwaukee and Madison voters wouldn't vote for a Republican even if she was a black lesbian member of NARAL and HRW.)

The reason I dont' like Mitt Romney is because he's lied to get everything. He took over the Olympics in Salt Lake, claiming credit for cleaning it up, but in truth, the cleanup began by a group of very honest people before he ever got there. But, he waltzed in and took the credit.

Second, he claimed he was a Mass resident, even though he was a Utah resident and paid taxes there. Then claimed he forgot, conveniently, and then somehow was magically a Mass resident just in time to make the ballot.

Once elected he promised to stay home and work for the state. He wasn't in office a month before he was out sashaying around the south, looking for new sugar mammas (just like a polygamist) to boost his presidential campaign hopes. He says anything to them to get the vote, just like a guy leaving his wife at home to go out cruising for sweeties on a Saturday night. He makes fun of the constituents who voted for him (based on his l ies). If he makes the presidency, how long do you think it will be before his lies start again?

Finally, he verbally slapped his wife around in public during his campaign in Mass. She had legitimate health concerns about being in mass and he publicly told her to shut up. Any spouse who abuses his partner publicly deserves no vote of mine.

But, I imagine Mitt's "manliness" plays real well to the NASCAR dads who think it's okay to slap the little woman around and fly the Confederate flag.

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