I got to hand it to Rove.

Getting the Terror Alert into the Red in response to Lieberman's defeat is brilliant work.

"Might as well just check everything." Well, that solves the problem of people trying to cram everything into the overhead bins.

Yes, Karl Rove controls Britain.

Time to put on your tinfoil hat.

Still waiting for the evidence that this wasn't anything more than a number of guys sittin' around bullshitting.
.

Might as well just check everything.

And watch it get stolen or damaged. Or lost, along with the medicines you need to have. Add in a couple of extra hours to deal with luggage searches. Remember, you can't lock your bag with anything but TSA locks, which only you, the TSA, and anyone with a little larceny in their soul have access to.

Might as well not go.

Crime of the future -- putting obviously dangerous materials into bags of people you don't like, since they can't secure the bags, and they have to check them, meaning they lose control of the bag.

Sad news Kevin. The victory of Ned Lamont in the Democratic primary has emboldened the Al-Qaeda/Hezbollah type terrorists to attempt a audacious plan to blow up planes bound to the US. Good thing George W Bush was there to stop them.

This latest terrorist arrest also shows the need to stay the course in Iraq and keep our troops there rather than cut-and-run as Ned Lamont Democrats like the Kingpin Kos and Michael Moore want to do. As Michael Chertoff pointed out, the planned terrorist attack "was indicative of an al-Qaeda operation". If American troops leave Iraq, Al-Qaeda will surely take over Iraq and make the new Al-Qaeda controlled Iraq their new base of operations. That would make Al-Qaeda deadlier than ever. The latest resurgence of Al-Qaeda shows we cannot let that happen.

al: great comment

I actually welcome this. We've been limiting ourselves to a book or magazine on flights since 9/11 anyway. This will all but eliminate the use of bulky carry-ons and the annoying tussle that passengers go through stowing and retrieving them. Security checkpoints should move more quickly if there's virtually nothing to check.

I think some readers have asked this question before: Is Al real? Are his comments meant to be jokes?

Wew're going to be able to do a lot of comment trawling on this subject...

Scene. Al Qaeda cave. Two blokes sitting around shooting the breeze. The first one says to the second: "So what stunt shall we pull this time around?" The second one says: "Hey, how about getting one of our double agents to tell the Brits that we're about to smuggle bombs onto airplanes in Coke tins. Those Brits fall for anything."

The victory of Ned Lamont in the Democratic primary has emboldened the Al-Qaeda/Hezbollah type terrorists to attempt a audacious plan to blow up planes bound to the US.

Now I know Al's joking!

Bill From PA,

My feeling too.

And for those of us doing expense account travel, it's time again to send our luggage ahead via FedEx. Traveling LAX-JFK with nothing but a briefcase is pretty nice.

Well, that pretty much clinches it. Up until now, "Al" had done a pretty good job of walking the fine line between mainstream Bush-sycophantism and utter right-field insanity, but he slipped up with this last comment. Not even Hugh Hewitt on PCP would try to claim that the UK airline plot was somehow initiated by Ned Lamont's victory in the CT primary.

Al, you've officially been outed as a satire troll. Still, well met. You had us going for a while.

This whole (laughingly-referred-to-as) plot is ridiculous. There's a small chance that it's not voodoo multirelionists from Haiti, but let me give a few reasons to doubt its veracity, and, if true, why nothing can be done about it.

In the Bojinka plot (unsuccessful in its wet run over the Pacific, discovered in Manilla when chemicals accidently caught fire & firefighters found computers after perps fled, successful in blowing up TWA800) planted nitroglycerine & something else on a seat about 747 fuel tanks, with a Casio watch timer set to blow a hole in the passenger skin thru to the fuel tanks which would then explode the whole plane. The components were brought on board separtely & assembled in the bathroom, placed during the first leg of the flight & timed to blow on the next leg, after the perp had left. It's pretty complicated but obviously doable. We'll see if the arrestees pass the laugh test in terms of whether they could pull this off (unlike Richard Reid).

Next: in 1% Doctrine, Suskind revealed a plot to do mass transit poisoning with cyanide. Checked it out a bit with a chemist friend, and it seems it's not too complicated & could be quite effective. But it hasn't been carried out. If I remember, speculation in book is that after 9/11, didn't want to prod the giant again. So, if they have an easy plot & a complicated plot, why choose the latter, and if they decided not to do anything big again after 9/11, why reverse that decision after they've already got the 2 Gullivers well tied up?

Finally--so you can't take water bottles, eye drops, etc., on the plane but you can take baby formula & prescription medicines? Where would any self-respecting terrorist hide the chemicals? Public will not put up with new restrictions anyhow.

Last time I traveled, the TSA broke the lock on my checked lugage and left me a little note about it. Normally I might be a bit annoyed but they had replaced my stuff in a much nicer manner than I had.

Dear TSA: Thank you for packing my stuff. Next time I fly, I will surely not pack neatly. So please pack my stuff for me in the future.

I certainly hope the airlines plan to stock up on water and stewardesses, because they're going to be kept quite busy on future flights running water back and forth to increasingly dehydrated passengers.

I think we've seen before that the Administration raises the terror level to control the focus of the news, sometimes raising it in response to months-old information. I wouldn't put it past them.

I'm sure Al is a joke ("Kingpin" Kos? Please), but I'm also sure American Hawk or some other lame-o will try and seriously say that liberals are causing this, so allow me a pre-emptive retort:

Liberals don't like these developments either -- I'll assume that they're 100% true, although the Bush administration has politicized some not-past-the-bullshit-stage terror plots in the past -- and obviously we would like to kill the terrorists who would carry them out. However, we would like to do it without...

a) Tearing up the Constitution
b) Invading a country that never attacked us and didn't have any al Qaeda until after we attacked it
c) Having zero plan to win hearts and minds

This is what makes us smarter than the President, who doesn't even get why not doing those things is good.

Disputo nailed it. Precisely my thought when I turned on the news this morning to the Alert Red announcement. I don't care what the Brits say or how many people they've arrested or what evidence they conjure up: This stunt has been in the works for months if not years. Poor Karl; this will finally expose him as the boy crying wolf he has always been.

It's worth noting that Britain foiled this plot by using -- yes! -- police work and intelligence assets. Furthermore, they seem thus far not to have engaged in the kind of military overreaction that serves the terrorists' agenda.

If only Bush were capable of learning...

Oh, yeah, I forgot ... Jim Henley points out that the so-called "flypaper theory" ("We fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here") seems to be, ah, no longer operative.

SCENE: A cave somewhere in Pakistan.

Bin Laden (checking MSNBC on his laptop): I have grave news, my fellow jihadists!

Al-Zawahiri (looks up from sipping a daiquiri): Oh?

Bin Laden: The Democrats are... I fear to say it... growing a spine!

Al-Zawahiri (drops his glass): Impossible!

Bin Laden: It's true! They just ousted our favorite Zionist, the infildel Lieberman!

Al-Zawahiri: Egads!

Bin Laden: The Americans are no longer sufficiently scared of us! I knew I should've said 'jihad' more often in our last tape recording!

Al-Zawahiri: What do we do now?

Bin Laden: Do we have any more idiots- er- expendable teams to burn?

Al-Zawahiri: There's this group in Britain plotting to blow up some planes with spit, bailing wire, bubblegum, and a couple pounds of explosive they smuggled out of Iraq.

Bin Laden: Give them the go sign. Successful or not, it'll spook everyone crapless and I just know the infidels Bush and Rove are just itching to go to 'Red Alert'.

Al-Zawahiri: Allah be praised that we were blessed with such easily predictable politicians to deal with!

Bin Laden: Soon, the Americans will be wetting their pants again and electing politicians eager to fuel my war! If it weren't for them, Al Qaeda would be as notable as the Bader-Meinhof gang!

mmy. are you suggesting that American Hawk is not a joke?

had to laugh at the local news anchor who seemed to not understand the story she was reporting...

she said......"oddly" oil prices were down on the news of the arrests...

but...industry analysts say it's because they expect less jet fuel to be used....

who says conservation doesnt work...

It's alright. We probably would have diverted them to halifax.

One things always bothered me. Why didn't Reid light his shoe in the lavatory?

I think some readers have asked this question before: Is Al real? Are his comments meant to be jokes?

I think "Al" is actually Kevin, trying to stir things up.

Haven't you noticed that trolls comment on his site so much more than other blogs?

industry analysts say it's because they expect less jet fuel to be used

Cool. I'm looking forward to cheap, dehydrating flights until the Nov elections.

from www.altara.blogspot.com:

Good thing that we invaded and occupied Iraq, attacking the terrorists over there so that they won't attack us here

"I wouldn't put it past them."

There is one 'factoid' in this story that leads to a 'wag the dog' theory. The US gov was reportedly only first informed of the Brit investigation two weeks ago but waited until today to raise the terror alert warning. Isn't that odd? And can anyone tell me what's happened to the news coverage of the Hesbollah/Israel crisis? It's gone from being 24/7 at the beginning to being almost invisible on TV news. And my Google news homepage rarely has a story about it in the World News section (heuristically chosen by articles most cited/read).

I have a suggestion regarding terrorism. Let's actually try going after Bin Ladin. Of course, this will require putting Democrats in charge.

Great, no more fuel oil and fertilizer on flights. What's next?

nepeta: The US gov was reportedly only first informed of the Brit investigation two weeks ago but waited until today to raise the terror alert warning.

the story refers to bush being awakened last night with the news....

wonder who got that job?

lieberman?

President Bush just said the events in London are "a stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists."

And, again, how exactly did the invasion of Iraq contribute to preventing these types of attack?

And how many Pakistani terrorists (you know, the ones that are actually attacking American interests, rather than the imaginary Iraqi terrorists who are attacking imaginary targets in Bush's imaginary brain) have we killed or captured in Iraq?

Hey, some brilliant GOP rube ought to be able to give us the number . . .

. . . we're waiting . . .

There is one 'factoid' in this story that leads to a 'wag the dog' theory. The US gov was reportedly only first informed of the Brit investigation two weeks ago but waited until today to raise the terror alert warning.

Another important point is that counter measures at airports (in both the UK and the US) were only taken *after* the plotters were arrested and the threat contained. This is all pageantry.

thisspaceavailable: lieberman?

Did he wake Bush with a kiss?

It's only right to return a favor . . .

"There is one 'factoid' in this story that leads to a 'wag the dog' theory. The US gov was reportedly only first informed of the Brit investigation two weeks ago but waited until today to raise the terror alert warning. Isn't that odd?"

Exactly. Whats the point of having a terror alert scale if when there is an actual, active, credible threat, they don't raise it until AFTER they have foiled the plan?

It just doesn't make sense on any level.

Disputo: This is all pageantry.

Sportsfan69 loves pageantry.

But he keeps losing the Miss Congeniality crown to Osama bin Laden.

The reality is that if the "terrorists" were serious there are so many avenues of attack that it would make commerce impossible to protect all of them.

The real solution is to switch the airline industry from a few big planes going from a few well known hubs to lots of small planes flying all over the place, cheaply. Sure big long haul carrier routes are nice, but almost completely unnecessary at the 767 size and above. There is a valid niche at the low end, consider the subcompact car market and how that is succeeding everywhere but the USA where upper management has progessively blocked this niche from ever existing. Airplanes and airport hubs will benefit from the same shift. We can see how the same shift would benefit the movie and music industry, rather than a few big blockbusters lots of smaller acts organically supporting them selves. Same for the news/TV industry, as the internet takes away more an more of their market.

There is a large economic shift that is slowly overwhelming entrenched forces who have been actively ignooring/resisting it for the last 6 years.

Exactly. Whats the point of having a terror alert scale if when there is an actual, active, credible threat, they don't raise it until AFTER they have foiled the plan?

If you raise the alert before you foil the plan, you can't pretend afterwards that "no one could have imagined...", and, anyway, if people are on alert, you mitigate the fear effect from a successful attack.

OTOH, once you've foiled the attack, the only way to make sure that people have some distress which you can position your authoritarian and war-mongering policies as relief for is to raise the public alert level.

It just doesn't make sense on any level.

It makes perfect sense as cynical political manipulation.

If I instead of packing my clothes in an overnight bag, I simply wear them in layers, I wonder how many days they'll last me?

Jesus H Christ!!!

Yeah, you can make mentos and coke "explode".

But if you want to make something that will "detonate", you need a fucking detonator, and often a booster, and a well mixed composition.

It would be far deadlier to bring on bleach and ammonia than to make a crappy explosive with couple of soda bottles of fertilizer and fuel oil.

This is the dumbest fucking terror plot ever. No wait, after the guys who had to beg for a video camera. And the guy who was going to bring dow the brooklyn bridge with a blowtorch. And the guys talking about 9/11 while traveling to school. And the guys who went on a pilgrimage to Afhghanistan and came back to their families. And the attack on the Library in LA. But yeah, after those, this is definitely the most idiotic.

So, whats up in Iraq and Lebabnon? Anyone?

mickslam: It just doesn't make sense on any level.

It makes sense from the Republican level (sewer level): hype, hype, hype the fear.

Only now that a majority of Americans trust the Democrats on terror more, this is going to be harder and harder to play into a GOP advantage.

But you can expect a lot of false terror alerts between now and election day, because the GOP is running terrified - they are more terrified of losing power than anything else, including losing the country or losing the lives of our soldiers or citizens.

It should also be noted here that the real achievement in this "wag the dog" incident is not the needless raising of the terror alert, which most USAmericans have become inured to, but the needless harassment of air travellers (especially those in the US, where even Chertoff admits there is no evidence of any terrorist plot), the purpose of which is to remind millions of people on an irritatingly personal level that there are boogey men out there.

Bush: . . . "a stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists."

Josh Marshall: Also a pretty stark reminder that President Bush's War on Terror, the way he's chosen to fight it, is at best irrelevant to combatting this sort of danger. These are homegrown Brits apparently trying to blow up planes over the Atlantic. Good thing we've got a 150,000 or so troops in Iraq to take the fight to them.

Word.

Again, sportsfan69, how many Pakistani terrorists have we captured in Iraq?

Apparently not enough!

I have been asked to drink from my water bottle as I go through airport security, which I do happily. Here is what I wonder...was water one of the secret ingredients?

That's it: it's time to outlaw vinegar and baking soda.

Sept 2001: Box cutters used to hijack planes. Number of operatives put onto planes: 19. Result: Americans not allowed to possess anything pointy on a plane.

Dec 2001: Attempted shoe bombing. Number of operatives put onto planes: 1. Result: Americans must remove shoes to get on a plane.

Aug 2006: Vague plot about liquid explosives. Number of operatives put onto planes: 0. Result: Americans may not possess liquids on a plane.

2007: Random chatter about explosive/infectious suppositories. Number of operatives involved: 0. Result: ?

Advocate for God: "But you can expect a lot of false terror alerts between now and election day, because the GOP is running terrified..."

And right on cue, GWB comments that the arrests were a stark reminder that the U.S. is "at war with Islamic fascists." Well, gosh! As a liberal, of course, I had forgotten ALL about our war with Islamic fascists.

When was the last time we had a terror alert??? Wasn't it two days before the 2004 election? Fancy that!

With this new evidence, I say we bomb Iran and Syria--and maybe Pakistan as well--just to prove how mighty we are. Killing as many Muslims in the ME (and eliminating the estate tax) will make everything better for the US.

wow, between these comments and the shitload of diaries on Dailykos spouting the same nonsense --

I don't know which is more amusing (and frightening)...the tinfoil hats or the hubris ("let's concoct an entire terrorist plot with the cooperation of two other countries and kill the stock prices of some of our biggest campaign contributors and shut down Heathrow so that we get the news that one Democrat beat another Democrat in a primary...." "oh wait, it wasn't really front page news anyway")

I can only imagine what you would be saying if it was 2 weeks before the elections instead of 3 months.

Mysticdog: So, whats up in Iraq and Lebabnon? Anyone?

My question exactly.

I certainly hope the airlines plan to stock up on water and stewardesses

[sigh] I always used to bring my own water and stewardesses but I can adapt.

This administration has been a few steps behind from the beginning:

OBL wants to use weapons in the U.S.
Planes can be used as weapons.
Shoes can be used as weapons.
Liquids can be used as weapons.

What everyday item are they overlooking now?

Finally, something positive from the "War on Terrorism": No more hassles from people whose idea of carry-on luggage is a steamertrunk with two wheels and a handle.

Nathan: I can only imagine what you would be saying if it was 2 weeks before the elections instead of 3 months.

Since no one said that the alleged plot was imaginary, your rant is yet more conservative hysteria driven by plummeting poll numbers and the equally rapid descent of conservative electoral and legal fortunes.

(I see the GOP is trying now to break one of their own laws, that they slipped into Ohio statutes to kill the election strategy of a Democrat, in attempting to replace Ney. LOL.)

BTW, Nathan, grace us with your erudite analysis of why the Bush administration waited until THE DANGER HAD PASSED (after all the alleged plotters had been arrested) to issue a terror alert that was at that point moot?

And while you are at it, Nathan, explain again how sending over 2500 American soldiers to their death in Iraq is going to prevent British citizens of Pakistani (note Iraqi) descent from plotting to commit, attempting, or carrying out terrorist acts?

Advocate for God:

I don't know why I bother to respond to you but since you clearly haven't bothered to read any news coverage today:

a. you might note that they have arrested 21 alleged plotters but indicate that there may have been as many as 50 -- in other words, some appear to be at large (and presumably could be desperately attempting to complete their suicide mission)...I don't know about you but that's fricking legit reason to be on alert.

b. well, the Brits sure as hell are raising their alert levels...so why don't you go explain to Scotland Yard why they're such Bush-luving morons while you're at it.

c. "Since no one said that the alleged plot was imaginary" Liar. Read this thread. Then go read some diaries at Dailykos. Then come back.

d. are you a fake like Al always was? cause I have a hard time believing anyone is really that stupid.

"And while you are at it, Nathan, explain again how sending over 2500 American soldiers to their death in Iraq is going to prevent British citizens of Pakistani (note Iraqi) descent from plotting to commit, attempting, or carrying out terrorist acts?"

I have never defended the Iraq war so why would I start now?

Why don't we just have separate baggage planes? Then you don't even have to check the baggage because at most the terrorists could take out an air crew. It would be faster and safer.

hmm...it looks like there are at least 5 known suspects on the loose.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/10/us.security/index.html

btw, why did they go on the alert after 7/7 (or 9/11 for that matter)? after all, the culprits were dead.

(and even if you think you have everyone, it makes sense to go on alert simply from a cya perspective.)

well, the Brits sure as hell are raising their alert levels...so why don't you go explain to Scotland Yard why they're such Bush-luving morons while you're at it.

Agreed. It certainly strains the imagination that Blair would assist Bush in any manner whatsoever....

Nathan: . . . you might note that they have arrested 21 alleged plotters but indicate that there may have been as many as 50 -- in other words, some appear to be at large (and presumably could be desperately attempting to complete their suicide mission)...I don't know about you but that's fricking legit reason to be on alert.

Then, you are an idiot.

The administration knew about the alleged plot for two weeks.

If there reason for not issuing the terrorist alert two weeks ago was to avoid tipping the plotters off (and because airline passengers can't do anything about it anyway) and plotters are still on the loose, then the same reasons exist now for not issuing a terrorist alert, namely to avoid alerting any plotters who remain unaware that their co-conspirators have been arrested.

So, the Bush administration, in order to make a big PR splash for themselves, have, as they have in the past, aided and abetted the remaining conspirators by alerting them to what is going down without giving the public any useful information.

well, the Brits sure as hell are raising their alert levels...so why don't you go explain to Scotland Yard why they're such Bush-luving morons while you're at it.

Tony Blair is a Bush-loving moron and Tony Blair controls Scotland Yard.

More proof you are an idiot.

cause I have a hard time believing anyone is really that stupid.

You should ask that about yourself.

I remain skeptical. Is this genuine fear and preventic=ve actions, or is this election-year fear-mongering? One has to ask the question, given the lies we have been spoon-fed over the last years. On both sides of the pond.

Nathan: btw, why did they go on the alert after 7/7 (or 9/11 for that matter)? after all, the culprits were dead.

They didn't know whether there were more planes, because they didn't know about the plot in advance.

Here, they claim they knew about the plot in advance, by two weeks no less, in all of its details.

Pretty dim response, even for you.

well, the Brits sure as hell are raising their alert levels...so why don't you go explain to Scotland Yard why they're such Bush-luving morons while you're at it.

Um, does the word "poodle" mean anything to you?

Disputo: It certainly strains the imagination that Blair would assist Bush in any manner whatsoever....

Yes, even the mere suggestion that Blair would ever ally himself with Bush is just hysterically funny.

BTW, Nathan, is it 5 or 50 suspects on the loose.

Maybe its 500, eh?

Surely there are at least 500 terrorists in the world plotting against the US, any of whom might attack us at any time, so why not raise the terror alert and just keep it there?

The authorities were alerted and looking for these suspects as well as checking suspect items at airports, so exactly how does publicizing the situation and raising the terror alert PUBLICALLY assist in combatting this or any other terrorist plot?

As someone else said, Disputo?, this is all pageantry.

These terror alerts serve absolutely no purpose except as spin fodder for the administration.

And you are dim enough to fall for it.

the frightening thing is that you are so blinded by your hatred of Bush that the only thing that would satisfy you that the terrorist threat is real is if they were actually successful.

(I realize that 9/11, 7/7, Bali, Madrid, Instanbul and Amman don't count in your world view.)

look, I think Bush is a less than competent lightweight, but you people make him look sane.

Lieberman: "If we just pick up like Ned Lamont wants us to do, get out by a date certain, it will be taken as a tremendous victory by the same people who wanted to blow up these planes in this plot hatched in England. It will strengthen them and they will strike again."

So, Joe, exactly how many of those plotters were from Iraq?

What was the explosive

Nathan: the frightening thing is that you are so blinded by your hatred of Bush that the only thing that would satisfy you that the terrorist threat is real is if they were actually successful.

Nothing hysterical and unresponsive about this comment.

The frightening thing is that you are so blinded by fear and loathing that you allow yourself to be conned over and over and over by all the pageantry, utterly oblivious to the Bush administration's abuse of the public portion of the terrorism alert system (which serves absolutely no purpose other than to promote fear and hysteria in people like you) for purely partisan reasons, in ways that have absolutely zero impact on preventing terrorist attacks.

Sad.

it makes sense to go on alert simply from a cya perspective

Which makes Bush's total inaction following the August 6 PDB -- about which he told the briefer that the briefer had "covered his ass" -- an even more abject and shameful failure of Bush's duty to defend the nation.

the frightening thing is that you are so blinded by your hatred of Bush that the only thing that would satisfy you that the terrorist threat is real is if they were actually successful.

If we needed any more evidence that "Nathan" is a fundamentally dishonest commentor -- and we don't -- well, there you go.

Nathan: . . . it makes sense to go on alert . . .

Why?

Be specific.

How does proclaiming a public alert about a foiled terrorist attack assist in preventing that planned terrorist attack or others?

Do they have pictures of the suspects to disseminate so that the public can assist in locating them?

If not, then, again, what is the benefit?

Anything?

Anything positive, in terms of enhancing national security, that arises from this or any other publically announced terrorism alert and public raising of the threat level?

Anything at all beneficial to national security by publically raising the threat level, Nathan?

Surely you have an answer for this . . .

ah its the mentos - diet pespi thingy. bhahahaha.

Anything at all beneficial to national security by publically raising the threat level...

Well, I've heard from a flying family member that lipstick (yes, lipstick) was confiscated. So maybe the people in the cabin will be alert to pounce on the next woman re-applying her makeup on the plane.

ah its the mentos - diet pespi thingy.

I still need to try this.

Nathan,

Let me put the question to you another way . . .

When the terror threat level was raised this last time, other than hiding under your bed, putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "lalalalalalala", did you do anything different from what you had planned for the day or make any changes to things you had planned for the next week, month, or year?

Other than fomenting fear and anxiety, tell us precisely what the public announcement of the terror alert level serves . . .

I see a day when we all wear paper gowns through security. OR ALLNUDE Airlines.

if Advocate for God can explain an unobtrusive way to prevent people from bringing liquids on planes...I'm waiting to hear about it.

This has always been possible.

It's just not very plausible: All of these chemical combonations are either odorous, toxic, or caustic.

Yeah, I don't think I'll bother flying. The time in the airport to get 'checked' is longer than the flight time.

Actually, it sounds like another way to get us to spend more money on the drink trolly and toothpaste at the far end.

Spend for the economy!

...They're blocking flight attendants, too.

They're only allowed one carryon. WTF?

to quote someone else who put it succintly:

"When they raise the alert level to "orange" citing vague threats that turn out to be based on evidence over a year old, they're just making shit up. When they raise the alert to "red," arrest 21 people, and massively disrupt air travel, ban water bottles, etc., there is something more afoot than a distraction. It's clear that there was a major terror plot afoot here; they would not cause this much chaos just to deflect attention from Ned Lamont or whatever."

they would not cause this much chaos just to deflect attention from Ned Lamont or whatever.

That's your proof? That the GWB admin isn't vile enough to have done this? You gotta be kidding me!

This is exactly *why* the GWB admin is causing this much chaos, because people no longer react to a simple rise in the Terror Alert level, and so require additional chaos to be persuaded to fall for the FUD.

And you sheeple are indeed falling for it, just like Rove counted on.

I see a day when we all wear paper gowns through security. OR ALLNUDE Airlines.

Wait till the terrorists start using the body cavities of middle aged white women to stow their binary explosives.

its 3 months before the elections, not 2 weeks.

and like I said, the hubris in thinking that Lamont is that big a deal is exceeded only by your stupidity.

This police action was planned just in case Lieberman lost the primary to Lamont. Lieberman and now the flying public are losers.

What if my bladder is full when I step on the airplane? Is that bringing "liquids" on board? Damn, I just wet myself.

OR ALLNUDE Airlines.

"Thwart a tarrist, Fly Naked"
I'm all in favor of this. What flight is Heidi Klum on again?

Rove is awesome! How can he pull off these things? How in the world does he get the rest of the world to do all his dirty work for him?

I like this comment "And how many Pakistani terrorists (you know, the ones that are actually attacking American interests, rather than the imaginary Iraqi terrorists who are attacking imaginary targets in Bush's imaginary brain) have we killed or captured in Iraq?"

So since the Pakistani's haven't been involved in Iraq it means that they would have tried this plot anyway. So why bring up Iraq? If it has nothing to do with Iraq then don't lump it together in your argument.

Does US being in Iraq foster more terrorist? If so then this attack DOES have something to do with Iraq. Besides we attacked them first by putting buildings in the path of the planes they were flying.

I here the echo echo echo echo in here.

I here the echo echo echo echo in here.

That could be the vast nothingness between your ears.

Nathan: if Advocate for God can explain an unobtrusive way to prevent people from bringing liquids on planes...I'm waiting to hear about it.

"The HSA has determined that liquids pose a danger to airline security. All liguids are prohibited."

Tell me, idiot, did they raise or lower the threat level when they decided to first ban cosmetic scissors and the like, then let such things on the planes?

Here's Nathan's plan: every time the HSA changes their mind about what should or should not be allowed on a plane, instead of simply announcing the new rules, lets issue a major terrorist alert and change the threat level.

Good plan!

Nathan: . . . the hubris in thinking that Lamont is that big a deal . . .

I guess that's why the GOP has all of its big voices, such as Dickless Cheney, ranting and foaming at the mouth about Lamont.

Orwell: So since the Pakistani's haven't been involved in Iraq it means that they would have tried this plot anyway. So why bring up Iraq? If it has nothing to do with Iraq then don't lump it together in your argument.

Because, dimwit, Lieberman linked the two, not to mention that Bush has made Iraq the "central front in the war on terror" and also linked our efforts in Iraq to the current activities of British citizen Pakistanis.

Orwell: yet another f*cking moronic mouthpiece for Bush.

Gotta love it.

Orwell: I here the echo echo echo echo in here.

Orwell is shouting inside his own skull again and finding out it's just one big echo chamber.

Nah, ckelly it is the echo chamber in here. My head is too filled with all the marching orders Carl Rove has subliminally planted in my head.

I don't get it, Kevin. Are they going to hand check every piece of carry-on luggage? Or are they just going to ask the nice terrorist if they have any liquids in their bags?

And how long before something like this is a threat to checked backage?

Good thing Bush had all these questions answeres a few years ago when Iraq, er, I mean terrorism became a focus of his administration.

And how long before something like this is a threat to checked backage?

TSA employees get to pilfer from—er, "inspect"—your checked baggage, so it is not considered a "threat".

K:

actually, generally speaking such liquids are inert until they are combined with another liquid....in a nutshell, exploding them is a "hands-on" activity.

Nathan,

I'm sure someone with a large organizational backing could overcome that issue.

Nathan, demonstrating that he isn't nearly as smart as he imagines:

exploding them is a "hands-on" activity

Terrorists, having figured out how to create such bombs have probably heard of gel-caps and other time-release mechanisms. Look Ma, no hands.

K:

huh? what does a large organization have to do with getting into a plane's cargo hold during the middle of flight?

combining the liquids with electronic or mechanical timed detonators makes them a heck of a lot easier to detect.

there's a reason why this plot was a suicide mission...

in a nutshell, exploding them is a "hands-on" activity.

Well then, I shouldn't be worried that these things are sold out in Britain.

http://jewellery-electronics.placeforshopping.co.uk/2687.html

Nathan,

Never mind. You have convinced me that my fear of checked baggage is completely unfounded. Thank you. I would sleep better tonight, if I only had more leg room...

Yours,
K

of course, checked baggage is a concern.

but generally other types of explosives would make more sense...

Oy. Now my neckrest is getting very uncomfortable.

Do you have some liquid gelcaps for me by any chance.

Oh, wait...

"Nah, ckelly it is the echo chamber in here. My head is too filled with all the marching orders Carl Rove has subliminally planted in my head."

Carl Rove hates black people. Wait...has that line been taken?

Always Ultra Thin Maxi Pads, Regular Protection, 44-Count Packages (Pack of 3): Great protection in a thinner pad, Absorbent gel core which traps liquid, Individually wrapped

What if you are wearing it? Will menstruating women be allowed to travel?

Does the british ipod ban (checked and unchecked) apply to other mp3 players?

When do the cavity searches start?

Nathan,

OK, here's my answer to your amazement at the cynicism of the liberal posters here and at DKOs.
I certainly believe there is a good possibility that the Brit investigation and arrest of suspects was a legit discovery of a terror cell.But 9/11 and Iraq have made us more cautious about buying 'stories' from the US or British governments. Most of us here knew that Iraq didn't have WMDs (with 99% certainty) a good year before the invasion. We also hear our leaders throwing around terms like 'Islamo-fascism' instead of trying to understand the dynamics that have produced extremists around the globe. The US is not innocent in this regard. Read "The Sorrows of Empire" by Chalmers Johnson. So, yes, I certainly agree that there is a terrorist threat to the US. But every single word coming out of this administration, and most administrations, for that matter, must be questioned critically and appraised appropriately on its basis in truth. I've certainly been educated politically by Bush et al. It's way past time for American citizens, if they care at all about the US and/or the rest of the world, to become self-learners and not to rely on either the corporate media or whatever corporate-backed administration is in power to shape their understanding of the world. If you're not willing to spend the energy doing that, then you deserve what's coming to you.

Alert levels...

http://www.geekandproud.net/terror/images/terror-all.jpg

Given what you're describing, why not two liquids in a single chamber with a disintegrating baffle between them? This could be packed in luggage that gets even less scrutiny than carry on.
Stick a cell phone in there. Have a passenger ring the cellphone from the cabin. ...since they're on suicide missions anyway.

Or place explosives in cargo which, even though this vulnerability has been pointed out numerous times since 2000, get only cursory inspection.

I don't underestimate the potential for great danger, but the timing and not completely comprehensible methodology of these latest attempts, are highly suspect.

Nathan PS:

And, with my new wide-open eyes, I would like to suggest that my theory for why Tony, George and Ehud MIGHT (not did, just might) have chosen this week for the culmination of this story, has to do with the current war being waged in Lebanon. Americans, Brits and Israelis need there 'terrorist' panic buttons pushed to keep them uncritically watching the slaughter in Lebanon.

Stick a cell phone in there. Have a passenger ring the cellphone from the cabin. ...since they're on suicide missions anyway.

Cell phones don't work on planes once they get above a certain altitude--no towers close enough. So you'll either have to blow up the plane close to the ground, or further refine the plot to find a better trigger. Maybe a 2-way from the cabin to the baggage compartment?

ALLNUDE airlines. Do you think that would solve the obesity problem, or would fat people just cease to care about people looking at them nude, they way they've ceased to care about people looking at them clothed?

My wife just got back from 2 weeks in DC. Delta lost everything she owned. It seems like between terrorists and incompetents, the air travel system has pretty much been shut down. It costs less to just drive.

Thoughts for Al & Nathan. Analogous to that old prison joke (they've told the jokes to each other so often, they number them. Then all they have to do is say the number & all the prisoners start laughing): Why don't we just number the Rovian talking points, then Al & Nathan can just type the number & we'll all laugh. It sure would save their fingers & keyboards.

It appears our brave defenders of the homeland have never stepped foot in a chem or bio lab if they were really caught by suprise. It is not all that difficult for anyone to make a posionous gas or an explosive with readily avaible chemicals. The real catch is to get someone who wants to do such a thing on the plane they are currently on.
Maybe we should spend more time surveilling jihadis instead of listening to aunt millies call back to the old country.

Until we hand screen every passenger and prohibit all luggage there is always a chance a terrorist might blow up a plane. You have a greater chance however of being killed by a lightning strike.

The question that has to be asked publicly, over and over, around all this, is why the Bushies are just getting around to banning fluids. This technique has ALREADY BEEN USED to blow up a civilian flight -- and binaries are how local police forces blow up suspicious packages. The ban should have been in place Sept. 12. The Administration has a HUGE potential liability here. Will anyone with access to the MSM make the case? Probably not.

The question that has to be asked publicly, over and over, around all this, is why the Bushies are just getting around to banning fluids.

Because they have only just recently seen /Doctor Strangelove/?

Remember the credibility of the British, missing the subway bombing, gunning down an innocent civilian after following him for blocks to make certain he was innocent.

Yes, Karl Rove controls Britain. sportsfan79 12:57 PM

Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I'm pretty happy about the no liquids. I remember carrying on two liters of clear fluid (H2O, as it happens) without so much as a glance from the security people. I don't know that much about making explosives in my kitchen, but I do know that two liters of alcohol, or gasoline, or whatever you want, could start a hell of a fire. It seemed to me that it would not be in my interests to point this out to the security droids, but it did give me a minor case of the willies that they didn't even open the bottle for a sniff.

Basically, we're screwed. By the time we get all the security nailed down, we'll be flying naked, doing a few jumping jacks before we board the airplane, with luggage traveling in either a separate airplane or in compartments designed to direct small explosions and fires away from the important parts of the airplane.

And while it does make certain amount of sense to raise the threat level at the same time that you suddenly tell people to forget about carry-on luggage, I cannot help but notice that there's lots of other news, unfavorable to the party in power, that this distracts from. Let's say, I wouldn't put it past the R's to spin this for every possible second of air time, and as much red shift in the threat level as they can manage.

Islamic fascists

That phrase is so fuckin' idiotic on so many levels it's hard to fathom how any sentient adult can use it, much less believe it.

Can somebody please get the goddamn president a goddamn dictionary?

And teach him how to read it.

Take away the liquids, creams, etc. for all I care.

However, the London flights are essentially prohibiting everything except wallet, travel documents, glasses, and a few other minor items... hours and hours with nothing but airline magazines and movies.

If that's the solution, terrorists won't have to blow up planes. Passengers will be killing themselves after a few hours.

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