Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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August 30, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

LIE BY LIE....Mother Jones has rolled out a nifty timeline tool tonight called "Lie by Lie: Chronicle of a War Foretold." It takes a few seconds to load, but once it's up it provides a comprehensive collection of statements made by Bush administration folks and others all the way up to the start of the war in 2003. You can search by date, by keyword, or by topic to create your own personalized timelines. It's fun for the whole family!

Kevin Drum 1:10 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (81)

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Frist?

Posted by: ss on August 30, 2006 at 1:18 AM | PERMALINK

I'm from a broken family, you insensitive clod.

Posted by: Boronx on August 30, 2006 at 1:36 AM | PERMALINK

The Iraq Occupation LieLine(tm)

Nice !

"Eventually, the truth will emerge. And when it does, this house of cards, built of deceit, will fall." - Robert C. Byrd

Posted by: daCascadian on August 30, 2006 at 1:49 AM | PERMALINK

And yet there are still people who say "Lies? What lies?"

Posted by: craigie on August 30, 2006 at 1:49 AM | PERMALINK

Or "But Clinton said..."

Posted by: Dustbin Of History on August 30, 2006 at 2:08 AM | PERMALINK

Now THAT's a very impressive and helpful piece of work and a nifty utilization of graphics with data. To all who put it together, mucho kudos.

Posted by: dweb on August 30, 2006 at 2:39 AM | PERMALINK

It's cute. It is in fact a useful contribution. Do you agree that those are all lies?

Joseph Wilson has disagreed with himself about whether he did or did not find evidence that Iraq had recently tried to buy yellowcake in Africa. Are those "lies" included?

Did Chirac and de Villepin lie to the US and GB about their willingness to vote for a second UNSC resolution, after 1441? It seems so, but Mother Jones is silent.

Did Tenet lie/mismanage/prevaricate about the intel concerning Iraqi WMDs? It seems so, but I didn't see where Mother Jones addressed this either.

Did Richard Clarke lie when he predicted in March 2003 that Saddam Hussein would for sure use his WMDs against invading American forces? I wouldn't call it a lie, but Mother Jones is silent on the issue, as far as I could tell.

And what, according to Mother Jones, was the correct tally of the monthly deaths in Iraq caused by DU from Gulf War I, and from the UN sanctions and Oil for Food program? What has become of all those cases of DU poisoning?

Of the many conflicting predictions about what would go wrong (c.f.Clarke above) which of those turned out to be false (and hence possibly "lies")?

Of the many predictions of the numbers of Iraqi casualties, how many were wrong by less than 500% or so? Were those all lies as well?

Posted by: republicrat on August 30, 2006 at 2:44 AM | PERMALINK

so repub ... anything on your list excuses bush lying us into this war ... how?

Posted by: Nads on August 30, 2006 at 2:49 AM | PERMALINK

That's one of the things lies are good for, republicrat, they make it possible for people like you to sleep easy, secure in the belief that all is well. The truth is out there (tm), but you are not really interested in the truth.

You are always here and you think you are peeling the scales from the leftist's eyes. These are not the droids you are looking for.

Posted by: Foo on August 30, 2006 at 2:56 AM | PERMALINK

republicrat:

Where is Wilson's contradiction? Proof, please.

Bastard!

I wonder, does the timeline also show US deaths in Iraq?

Does it show Iraqi civilian...oh, never mind, they're less tahn people.

Does it show exactly how Freedom Is On The Fucking March in Iraq?

Jerk-off!

Posted by: SteveAudio on August 30, 2006 at 4:09 AM | PERMALINK

Aren't they pretty much recycling the same bullshit for Iran? I wonder how many bushlickers will enlist for their newest war?

Posted by: merlallen on August 30, 2006 at 5:36 AM | PERMALINK

Once Tom Sawyer had gotten the dimwit village lads busy painting the fence for him, there was very little possibility that any of them would rethink the situation and stop slopping on whitewash.

Posted by: ergonaut on August 30, 2006 at 6:23 AM | PERMALINK

Simply fantastic! Mother Jones had become a bit lame recently, but maybe the change at the helm inserted much needed fresh blood. They raise hell again!

Posted by: Gray on August 30, 2006 at 6:42 AM | PERMALINK

Despite the irrelevant smokescreen thrown up by republicrat, there is no longer any doubt that Bush/Cheney, et al lied us into this unnecessary war. The question is only when they will be called to account for their lies. November is the opportunity. With a Democratic House, Articles of Impeachment can be brought against these criminals. Vote Democratic in November!!!

Posted by: The Liberal Avenger on August 30, 2006 at 7:06 AM | PERMALINK

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Posted by: dfv on August 30, 2006 at 8:17 AM | PERMALINK

My GOOD DEED for today...and you can help. Take this insightful little story and pass it around the net, please! Hopefully one of the bumper stickers for the election this fall then can become...ARE YOUR EYES OPEN YET?!

Bush was taking a walk one day when he encountered a little girl carrying a box. He ask her what was in the box and she replied, as she let him peek inside, that they were Republican kittens. In fact he did observe several newborn kittens in the box and it, naturally excited him that she identified them as REPUBLICAN so he praised her and went on. A week later he was walking with Karl Rove when he, again, encountered the same little girl carrying her box. He hurried Rove over to have him take a look and for Karl's benefit inquired of the girl what she had in the box. "Democrat kittens", she replied. Bush perplexed and disappointed said, "But when I asked you what was in the box you said, "Republican kittens"! "Yes", said the girl, "But now their eyes are open!"

ENJOY...and thank you

Posted by: Dancer on August 30, 2006 at 8:25 AM | PERMALINK

I don't wish to be obnoxious, but if y'all are going to pass around Dancer's kitten story, you might want to use the adjective "Democratic" instead of the noun "Democrat" in the third-to-last line.

Posted by: shortstop on August 30, 2006 at 8:30 AM | PERMALINK

This is good.

The timeline will stay up and grow, and mainstream discourse will finally cave in and use the most accurate term for what the mongers have been doing: LIES.

Now tell me this: Which of the lies were criminal?

Posted by: Framus on August 30, 2006 at 8:35 AM | PERMALINK

Thanks shortshop...also left out a comma when I did a "control C" to move this. Now I'll have to make that correction in other locations...appears I've been suckered by those old "talking points"...MY BAD!!!

Posted by: Dancer on August 30, 2006 at 8:56 AM | PERMALINK

"Lie by Lie"?

Is this the story of Joe Wilson?

Posted by: Down goes Frazier on August 30, 2006 at 9:10 AM | PERMALINK

I agree that this is informative and useful, but what the hell does Enron have to do with Iraq?

Posted by: Bob on August 30, 2006 at 9:11 AM | PERMALINK

Kudos to Mother Jones. Well done. An invaluable source for smacking around the right wingers.
America's Least Wanted

Posted by: budpaul on August 30, 2006 at 9:13 AM | PERMALINK

Dancer, no problem. I'm guessing that the story was originally told by Repubs, and you were sent a flopped version that didn't catch and correct the usual GOP illiteracy.

Posted by: shortstop on August 30, 2006 at 9:13 AM | PERMALINK

When are we going to take the country back?

By force if necessary.

I'm serious.

We need to organize.

Posted by: dee on August 30, 2006 at 9:14 AM | PERMALINK

Has anyone fact-checked the Mother Jones' annotations? Cheney did not admit that he mispoke when he said that US troops would be greated as liberators- read the Russert transcript.

The time line is a nice piece of work- but I do not believe that anyone in this administration has publicly admitted to any misstatements or miscalculations. Certainly, they have not and will not admit to having mislead the US public. That is the beauty of being a true believer.

Posted by: Out on Bond on August 30, 2006 at 9:21 AM | PERMALINK

Shouldn't they have the one about the Iraqi defense minister who said our troups weren't in Bagdad when they were moving on the streets just behind him?

Posted by: Orwell on August 30, 2006 at 9:28 AM | PERMALINK

Are these trolls under the mistaken impression that their "contributions" are making them look less pathetic? Oh, here's one! What about the time the liberal media forgot to report one additional painted room of a school!?! Huh? Huh?

Posted by: shortstop on August 30, 2006 at 9:31 AM | PERMALINK

"But it is equally clear that doing nothing and preserving the status quo also pose serious risks. Those risks are less visible, and their time frame is less certain. But after a great deal of consultation and soul-searching, I have come to the conclusion that the risks of doing nothing -- for our citizens and for our nation -- are too great to bear.

There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.

When Saddam Hussein obtains nuclear capabilities, the constraints he feels will diminish dramatically, and the risk to Americas homeland, as well as to Americas allies, will increase even more dramatically. Our existing policies to contain or counter Saddam will become irrelevant."

Statement of Senator John D. Rockefeller IV
on the Senate Floor
On the Iraq Resolution
October 10, 2002


"With respect to Saddam Hussein and the threat he presents, we must ask ourselves a simple question: Why? Why is Saddam Hussein pursuing weapons that most nations have agreed to limit or give up? Why is Saddam Hussein guilty of breaking his own cease-fire agreement with the international community? Why is Saddam Hussein attempting to develop nuclear weapons when most nations don't even try, and responsible nations that have them attempt to limit their potential for disaster? Why did Saddam Hussein threaten and provoke? Why does he develop missiles that exceed allowable limits? Why did Saddam Hussein lie and deceive the inspection teams previously? Why did Saddam Hussein not account for all of the weapons of mass destruction which UNSCOM identified? Why is he seeking to develop unmanned airborne vehicles for delivery of biological agents?

Does he do all of these things because he wants to live by international standards of behavior? Because he respects international law? Because he is a nice guy underneath it all and the world should trust him?

It would be naive to the point of grave danger not to believe that, left to his own devices, Saddam Hussein will provoke, misjudge, or stumble into a future, more dangerous confrontation with the civilized world. He has as much as promised it. He has already created a stunning track record of miscalculation."

TEXT FROM THE SPEECH JOHN KERRY MADE ON THE SENATE FLOOR
October 9, 2002


It is fun for the whole family!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Jay on August 30, 2006 at 9:34 AM | PERMALINK

I am stinky, and snort paste through my nose. My fingers are gooey.

Posted by: al on August 30, 2006 at 9:37 AM | PERMALINK

My favorite lie isn't on this time line:"As Iraqis stand up,we'll stand down."

What exactly will the Iraqis stand up with? If the goal is to have Iraq able to be an ally in the war on terror and to defend itself as a sovereign nation,shouldn't they be armed sufficiently to do so?
Then why have they been given Eastern Bloc used equipment.The Iraqi armored division has tanks donated by Hungary,the ISF is armed with AK-47s and they ride in old Naz and Gaz trucks ,(although the police have shiny Toyota trucks),there is no artillery,no air power and the Navy is a couple of speed boats.
My goodness,but the Iraqi army is outgunned by the insurgents,let alone their neighbors.

You also have to like the story yesterday of the firefight with the militias and the story from a few days ago of the British turning over a military base only to have it looted while the iraqi army stood by.
Oh,yeah.they'll stand up;just not in our life time,which is and was part of the plan.Why else build the bases we have?
We're there,it ain't fair,get used to it.

Posted by: TJM on August 30, 2006 at 9:41 AM | PERMALINK

Yeah, it's too had John Kerry believed the ginned up intelligence he was fed by the White House. Next time I think he and a lot of other people aren't going to be so trusting.

Posted by: trex on August 30, 2006 at 9:48 AM | PERMALINK

"Yeah, it's too had John Kerry believed the ginned up intelligence he was fed by the White House. Next time I think he and a lot of other people aren't going to be so trusting" - trex

So, are the democratic senators just lemmings that are spoon fed by the administration and just parrot the script? Do they not do their own homework? If so, then why in hell should they ever be put into power?

Furthermore, if those statements from Rockefeller and Kerry were not sincere and they did not believe what they were saying, then they should not occupy the positions they are in.

Posted by: Jay on August 30, 2006 at 9:54 AM | PERMALINK

You tell 'em Jay Jay! It's Rockefeller's and Kerry's fault the US perpetrated this cockup!

Posted by: Redacted on August 30, 2006 at 10:03 AM | PERMALINK

You're an idiot. Try not to get stuck inside a paper bag, it'll be the death of you if you have to reason your way out.

Posted by: trex on August 30, 2006 at 10:04 AM | PERMALINK

It sucks when you're exposed as hypocrites doesn't it?

Posted by: Jay on August 30, 2006 at 10:09 AM | PERMALINK


Oh and by the way...........


By Ross Colvin
Reuters
Monday, August 28, 2006; 12:19 PM

"BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Violence in Baghdad has dropped by nearly half since July, after U.S.-led forces launched an operation to pacify the capital, a U.S. general said on Monday, while acknowledging a spike in bombings in the past 48 hours.

U.S. military spokesman Major General William Caldwell also said Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki would assume operational control of Iraq's armed forces next month in what he called a significant step toward Iraq taking responsibility for its security."


"The top U.S. general in Iraq said he believes Iraqi security forces can take over security with little Coalition support within a year to 18 months. "I don't have a date, but I can see over the next 12 to 18 months, the Iraqi security forces progressing to a point where they can take on the security responsibilities for the country, with very little coalition support," Gen. George Casey said in Baghdad."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/24/iraq/main541815.shtml

And shortstop, why do you hate schools?

Posted by: Jay on August 30, 2006 at 10:14 AM | PERMALINK

I didn't read all of the Mother Jones article, but I wonder if the timeline includes the sweep of US colleges for conscienceless YRs to man positions in Iraq after the fall. The ones with no business experience. The ones who wouldn't know an accounting paper trail if it bit their brown noses off. The ones who permitted the loss of $9 billion.

Whenever the worry hits me, "What if I'm wrong?" I remember the bizarre use of so many conscienceless, experienceless, YR creeps for administrative positions in post-war Iraq. There is no other explanation for it: the bastards who prosecuted the war are gangsters who were running a looting operation. The Iraq War wasn't simply a cruel operation launched by deceit. It's prosecution didn't simply involve lies, death, and introduce justifications for torture into the American ethos. No, like all good potboilers tell us, the Iraq War was about money.

Posted by: Jeffrey Davis on August 30, 2006 at 10:17 AM | PERMALINK

It sucks when you're exposed as an idiot, doesn't it?

And that's rich, coming from Cut 'n Run Jay, arguably the worst hypocrite among the trolls here.

How's advocating genocide against Muslim " cockroaches" treating you these days?

Posted by: trex on August 30, 2006 at 10:17 AM | PERMALINK

Muslim cockroaches = Islamo-fascists

Genocide? I am all for it. No hypocrisy here.

Posted by: Jay on August 30, 2006 at 10:19 AM | PERMALINK

Jay, you're too dumb to leave the house. Fortunately, you don't. How's that job hunt going? Sure you don't want to try being a freelance intelligence gatherer?

You know, if only the Democrats in Congress had shown some moxie and created their own intelligence agencies to compete with the existing ones, they wouldn't have had to be so lamely dependent on the White House to tell them the truth. Bootstraps, people!

Posted by: shortstop on August 30, 2006 at 10:19 AM | PERMALINK

"....if only the Democrats in Congress had shown some moxie and created their own intelligence agencies to compete with the existing ones" - shortstop

So they aren't smart enough to do their own homework. And these are the people you want to put into power?

Smarter liberals please

Posted by: Jay on August 30, 2006 at 10:22 AM | PERMALINK

Genocide? I am all for it. No hypocrisy here.

Let this put an end once and for all to any well-intentioned but uninformed defenses of Jay as anything other than a sociopath. Again, it's fortunate that he's in no position to influence anything other than his remote control and the occasional box of cornflakes purchased for him by a pitying relative.

Now, back to my policy of ignoring the unemployed troll brigade.

Posted by: shortstop on August 30, 2006 at 10:25 AM | PERMALINK

"Now, back to my policy of ignoring the unemployed troll brigade." - shortstop


Well you're doing a good job of that. You're like Pavlov's dog, totally reactionary. Conservatives can push your buttons anytime they want.

Say hi to Cindy Sheehan for me.

Posted by: Jay on August 30, 2006 at 10:28 AM | PERMALINK

jay: Do they not do their own homework?

lol


"All right. You've covered your ass, now."

-G.W.B. 8/6/2001 to a CIA briefer who informed him of the P.D.B. titled - Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.

Posted by: thisspaceavailable on August 30, 2006 at 10:44 AM | PERMALINK

there is no longer any doubt that Bush/Cheney, et al lied us into this unnecessary war.

There never was. There never was.

Posted by: ckelly on August 30, 2006 at 10:57 AM | PERMALINK

Gen. George Casey said in Baghdad.


Believe him now Jay, because when he retires in 6 months and states that Iraq is a clusterfuck civil war you'll have to smear him.

Posted by: ckelly on August 30, 2006 at 11:06 AM | PERMALINK

Where are the domcarts who also agreed there were WMDs? AOr were they magically not lying because they have a D next to their name?

Posted by: American Hawk on August 30, 2006 at 11:16 AM | PERMALINK

So they aren't smart enough to do their own homework. And these are the people you want to put into power?

What about Cheney, Rumsfailed and Bush ? Did they do their homework ? Why aren't you holding them accountable.

Did either Rockefeller of Kerry call for all-out invasion of Iraq ?

Personally, I am disappointed that congress hasn't done a very good job of oversight, but ultimately the decision to go into Iraq was made by Bush.

Posted by: Stephen on August 30, 2006 at 11:17 AM | PERMALINK

So, are the democratic senators just lemmings that are spoon fed by the administration and just parrot the script? Do they not do their own homework? If so, then why in hell should they ever be put into power?

Hey fuck-knuckle, the democratic senators (or republican senators for that matter) don't have access to the intel that the president has. The CIA and other Intel Agencies report to the President, not the Congress [hint: if you took social studies, you learned about the three different branches of government]. The Congress doesn't have all the info that the President does, so yes, they do depend on what the administration tells them.

Bottom Line: both parties believed the bad intel that was floating around about Saddam and WMDs.

However, the administration had received DIA and State Department reports that contradicted most of the bad intel floating around. The administration ignored this evidence and never presented it to Congress, or the American people.

Smarter unemployed losers, please.

Posted by: NSA Mole on August 30, 2006 at 11:19 AM | PERMALINK

Well, at least we have Benito Rumsfeld explaining fascism to us.

Thanks, Shortstop, for loaning Frank Thomas to us.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on August 30, 2006 at 11:24 AM | PERMALINK

You wound me, Paul.

Posted by: shortstop on August 30, 2006 at 11:35 AM | PERMALINK

These trolls must have been raised by hyenas or jackals. Any five-year-old one with decent parents knows that the proper response when your caught in a lie is not "but they lied too!"

Fuck you, Jay, you fucking Nazi. Hell, at least the Nazis weren't impotent when it came to their desire for genocide. And take American Shitstain with you.

Posted by: brewmn on August 30, 2006 at 11:42 AM | PERMALINK

Plame Out

The ridiculous end to the scandal that distracted Washington.

By Christopher Hitchens

Posted Tuesday, Aug. 29, 2006, at 1:02 PM ET

I had a feeling that I might slightly regret the title ("Case Closed") of my July 25 column on the Niger uranium story. I have now presented thousands of words of evidence and argument to the effect that, yes, the Saddam Hussein regime did send an important Iraqi nuclear diplomat to Niger in early 1999. And I have not so far received any rebuttal from any source on this crucial point of contention. But there was always another layer to the Joseph Wilson fantasy. Easy enough as it was to prove that he had completely missed the West African evidence that was staring him in the face, there remained the charge that his nonreport on a real threat had led to a government-sponsored vendetta against him and his wife, Valerie Plame.

In his July 12 column in the Washington Post, Robert Novak had already partly exposed this paranoid myth by stating plainly that nobody had leaked anything, or outed anyone, to him. On the contrary, it was he who approached sources within the administration and the CIA and not the other way around. But now we have the final word on who did disclose the name and occupation of Valerie Plame, and it turns out to be someone whose opposition to the Bush policy in Iraq haslike Robert Novak'slong been a byword in Washington. It is particularly satisfying that this admission comes from two of the journalistsMichael Isikoff and David Cornwho did the most to get the story wrong in the first place and the most to keep it going long beyond the span of its natural life.

As most of us have long suspected, the man who told Novak about Valerie Plame was Richard Armitage, Colin Powell's deputy at the State Department and, with his boss, an assiduous underminer of the president's war policy. (His and Powell'sand George Tenet'sfingerprints are all over Bob Woodward's "insider" accounts of post-9/11 policy planning, which helps clear up another nonmystery: Woodward's revelation several months ago that he had known all along about the Wilson-Plame connection and considered it to be no big deal.) The Isikoff-Corn book, which is amusingly titled Hubris, solves this impossible problem of its authors' original "theory" by restating it in a passive voice:

The disclosures about Armitage, gleaned from interviews with colleagues, friends and lawyers directly involved in the case, underscore one of the ironies of the Plame investigation: that the initial leak, seized on by administration critics as evidence of how far the White House was willing to go to smear an opponent, came from a man who had no apparent intention of harming anyone.

In the stylistic world where disclosures are gleaned and ironies underscored, the nullity of the prose obscures the fact that any irony here is only at the authors' expense. It was Corn in particular who assertedin a July 16, 2003, blog post credited with starting the entire distractionthat:

The Wilson smear was a thuggish act. Bush and his crew abused and misused intelligence to make their case for war. Now there is evidence Bushies used classified information and put the nation's counter-proliferation efforts at risk merely to settle a score. It is a sign that with this gang politics trumps national security.

After you have noted that the Niger uranium connection was in fact based on intelligence that has turned out to be sound, you may also note that this heated moral tone ("thuggish," "gang") is now quite absent from the story. It turns out that the person who put Valerie Plame's identity into circulation was a staunch foe of regime change in Iraq. Oh, that's all right, then. But you have to laugh at the way Corn now so neutrally describes his own initial delusion as one that was "seized on by administration critics."

What does emerge from Hubris is further confirmation of what we knew all along: the extraordinary venom of the interdepartmental rivalry that has characterized this administration. In particular, the bureaucracy at the State Department and the CIA appear to have used the indiscretion of Armitage to revenge themselves on the "neoconservatives" who had been advocating the removal of Saddam Hussein. Armitage identified himself to Colin Powell as Novak's source before the Fitzgerald inquiry had even been set on foot. The whole thing couldand shouldhave ended right there. But now read this and rub your eyes: William Howard Taft, the State Department's lawyer who had been told about Armitage (and who had passed on the name to the Justice Department)

also felt obligated to inform White House counsel Alberto Gonzales. But Powell and his aides feared the White House would then leak that Armitage had been Novak's sourcepossibly to embarrass State Department officials who had been unenthusiastic about Bush's Iraq policy. So Taft told Gonzales the bare minimum: that the State Department had passed some information about the case to Justice. He didn't mention Armitage. Taft asked if Gonzales wanted to know the details. The president's lawyer, playing the case by the book, said no, and Taft told him nothing more.

"[P]laying the case by the book" is, to phrase it mildly, not the way in which Isikoff and Corn customarily describe the conduct of the White House. In this instance, however, the evidence allows them no other choice. But there is more than one way in which a case can be played by the book. Under the terms of the appalling and unconstitutional Intelligence Identities Protection Act (see "A Nutty Little Law," my Slate column of July 26, 2005), the CIA can, in theory, "refer" any mention of itself to the Justice Department to see if the statutedenounced by The Nation and the New York Times when it was passedhas been broken. The bar here is quite high. Perhaps for that reason, Justice sat on the referral for two months after Novak's original column. But then, rather late in the day, at the end of September 2003, then-CIA Director George Tenet himself sent a letter demanding to know whether the law had been broken.

The answer to that question, as Patrick Fitzgerald has since determined, is "no." But there were plenty of senior people who had known that all along. And can one imagine anybody with a stronger motive to change the subject from CIA incompetence and to present a widely discredited agency as, instead, a victim, than Tenet himself? The man who kept the knowledge of the Minnesota flight schools to himself and who was facing every kind of investigation and obloquy finally saw a chance to change the subject. If there is any "irony" in the absurd and expensive and pointless brouhaha that followed, it is that he was abetted in this by so many who consider themselves "radical."

Posted by: enozinho on August 30, 2006 at 11:47 AM | PERMALINK

I was aware of the lies as they were being told and I was aware moderates were seriously discussing the lies as if they were true and legitimate reasons for invading and occupying Iraq. What we need is a time line of American moderates' rise of hysterical fear and their belief in militant solutions. We need a new Erich Fromm for that.

Posted by: Hostile on August 30, 2006 at 12:00 PM | PERMALINK

...but ultimately the decision to go into Iraq was made by Bush.
Posted by: Stephen on August 30, 2006 at 11:17 AM | PERMALINK

That's spelled "K-e-n-n-e-t-h-space-L-a-y".

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on August 30, 2006 at 12:05 PM | PERMALINK

Then you should be glad he was tried and executed, OBF.

Posted by: enozinho on August 30, 2006 at 12:09 PM | PERMALINK

I was aware of the lies as they were being told and I was aware moderates were seriously discussing the lies as if they were true and legitimate reasons for invading and occupying Iraq.

I was too - but I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I waited until Powell's presentation at the UN to pass judgement.

After that presentation, I was not impressed, that was what turned me against the Iraq war.

And now I'm accused of hating America, or being unpatriotic, or even a terrorist-sympathizer. These fuckers need to be kicked in the nuts. Repeatedly.

And AH, Jay, Republicrat, GOP - - fuck you, in both eye sockets.

Posted by: Osama_Been_Forgotten on August 30, 2006 at 12:13 PM | PERMALINK

When a lie becomes a fact, then print the lie.

There are just lies that will becomes facts sometime in the future.

Posted by: eo on August 30, 2006 at 12:22 PM | PERMALINK

The basic operating premise under this regime: "We're so virtuous, even our lying is virtuous."

Posted by: MaxGowan on August 30, 2006 at 12:22 PM | PERMALINK

Shorter republicrat:

"The purpose of public debate is to make me feel better. By whatever means necessary."

Posted by: obscure on August 30, 2006 at 1:15 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop, i was just strolling through the comments here to see what kind of response the list engendered, and i just want to note that i agree with you completely: jay has now proven that he is a total asswipe and a sociopath who favors genocide by his own admission.

and speaking of asswipes, enzinho, why did you bring that moronic piece of drivel by hitchens into the disucssion. there's a clown who still thinks that a 1999 conversation that led nowhere justified a 2003 assertion in the sotu that saddam had recently attempted to purchase urainum. why should we take him - or you - seriously?

Posted by: howard on August 30, 2006 at 1:16 PM | PERMALINK

What happened to the lie that Saddam was behind 9/11? Or the war was a cakewalk and will only last 2 weeks?

Posted by: Freedom Fighter on August 30, 2006 at 1:33 PM | PERMALINK

"Oh, here's one! What about the time the liberal media forgot to report one additional painted room of a school!?! Huh? Huh?"

I think the news media has been too busy faking news stories to be worried about that.

Posted by: Freedom Fighter on August 30, 2006 at 1:40 PM | PERMALINK

"And now I'm accused of hating America, or being unpatriotic, or even a terrorist-sympathizer."

You can't deny the fact that a lot of liberals are just that.

Posted by: Freedom Fighter on August 30, 2006 at 1:43 PM | PERMALINK

"Personally, I am disappointed that congress hasn't done a very good job of oversight, but ultimately the decision to go into Iraq was made by Bush."

But Congress has the power to fund the effort or not. It's been 3.5 years and Congress is still in agreement with Bush.

Posted by: Freedom Fighter on August 30, 2006 at 1:47 PM | PERMALINK
"And now I'm accused of hating America, or being unpatriotic, or even a terrorist-sympathizer."

You can't deny the fact that a lot of liberals are just that.

I emphatically do deny this. Now as for Robertson, Falwell and Phelps, they definately are just that.

Posted by: Edo on August 30, 2006 at 2:04 PM | PERMALINK

C'mon guys - please don't feed the trolls. Save your energy.

Posted by: MaxGowan on August 30, 2006 at 2:20 PM | PERMALINK

Congress is still in agreement with Bush.

What a SHOCK that! Maybe we can thin out the "yes men" come November.

Posted by: ckelly on August 30, 2006 at 2:37 PM | PERMALINK

But Congress has the power to fund the effort or not. It's been 3.5 years and Congress is still in agreement with Bush.

A Republican controlled congress is in agreement with a Republican president...

What's your point ?

Posted by: Stephen on August 30, 2006 at 3:07 PM | PERMALINK

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howard: did you read this in today's Washington Post?

Nevertheless, it now appears that the person most responsible for the end of Ms. Plame's CIA career is Mr. Wilson. Mr. Wilson chose to go public with an explosive charge, claiming -- falsely, as it turned out -- that he had debunked reports of Iraqi uranium-shopping in Niger and that his report had circulated to senior administration officials. He ought to have expected that both those officials and journalists such as Mr. Novak would ask why a retired ambassador would have been sent on such a mission and that the answer would point to his wife. He diverted responsibility from himself and his false charges by claiming that President Bush's closest aides had engaged in an illegal conspiracy. It's unfortunate that so many people took him seriously.
Posted by: enozinho on September 1, 2006 at 9:49 AM | PERMALINK

enozinho:

Gee, the Washington Post editorial you cited, could it have been written by that liar and editor at the WP Woodward? You know, the man that from the outset pooh poohed the Plame investigation while hiding the fact he was one of those leaked to and therefore an interested/involved party? That Washington Post? If that is what you are relying on well then that is a mighty weak reed.

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