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Tilting at Windmills

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September 10, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

VOTE FOR LINC OR ELSE....The Republican Party is certainly playing a bracing game of chicken here:

In an extraordinary pre-emptive announcement, the National Republican Senatorial Committee has said it will concede Rhode Island to the Democrats should Stephen Laffey, the mayor of Cranston, defeat [Lincoln] Chafee in the primary. Citing poll data, Republican leaders said they saw no way someone as conservative as Mr. Laffey could win in a state as Democratic as this; as it is, they are increasingly worried about Mr. Chafees hopes in a general election.

It's certainly the case that, in practice, national committees often cede races they know they can't win. But has a preemptive declaration of defeat like this ever happened before?

Kevin Drum 12:12 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (79)

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Comments

The RNC is really pulling out all the stops on this one. And I personally think they'll succeed. Rhode Island is so small and the GOP GOTV operation is so good that I think they'll pull this one off (unfortunately for us).

Posted by: Andrew on September 10, 2006 at 12:16 AM | PERMALINK

Try this: Bush doesn't have to actually capture Bin Laden to salvage the '06 midterms. He just has to have it announced he's been captured, oh, say 72 hours before polling. Long enough in advance for a positive wave of voter euphoria and celebration to swing some close races. Not so far ahead though tough questions and a "put up or shut up" movement develops. The administration never really makes the official announcement. A willing (bribed) party with sufficient credibility does the deed, stating Binny is in custody and being transported to a Pakistani prison for questioning and charges. The election takes place, Republicans hold both houses in a squeaker, and only later does someone sheepishly apologize they got it all wrong. Mistaken identity, miscommunication. During the election lead up Bush cautions all to wait on more sure info ("wink, wink, yeah we got him!") and post election Tony Snow points out no U.S. government spokesman ever said Binny was caught and "Hey, Bush told you all not to count your chickens, remember?". What the hell is anybody going to say after the non-capture comes to light? Point fingers at the administration and whine they're a bunch of lying, calculating bastards? Well duh! The public knows that already. They would get what they wanted and the news cycle rolls over just like it always does and we move on to some kidnapped white girl or debating whether Michael Moore is really the devil incarnate. Tin foil? With this crew there is no tin foil, the most cynical scenario is entirely possible. Desperate times, desperate measures.....

Posted by: steve duncan on September 10, 2006 at 12:27 AM | PERMALINK

Andrew:

Can you give a thumbnail on Linc's opponent and the organization/sentiment behind him?

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 12:38 AM | PERMALINK

How are the Right Wing bloggers taking this?

Posted by: Carl Nyberg on September 10, 2006 at 12:39 AM | PERMALINK

The RNC has made a bad decision. I predict the movement conservatives will flock to the polls and give Laffey a decisive victory. The Laffey victory will then put the Republican Party in a strong position to win the Senatorial seat in Rhode Island. A Chafee victory would mean almost certain defeat in November due to the anti-incumbancy mood of the electorate. A Laffey victory on the hand would give the voters the opportunity to throw out the do-nothing Democrats and their liberal Republican allies like Lincoln Chafee.

Posted by: Al on September 10, 2006 at 12:39 AM | PERMALINK

Al, that is a very unique position you have there.

Posted by: jonny on September 10, 2006 at 12:42 AM | PERMALINK

I think the key word is defeat........things haven't been going that well. There was just an article in the NYTimes on Symbol Susan....a well educated civil servant who is the 2nd cousin of Andy Card....she tried mightly to avoid war.....but there was a snag..she wound up in a Federal Psyciatric Hospital...and guess who wants to drug her so she can stand trial? The judge said no..........it's a good read.

http://scoop.epluribusmedia.org/story/2006/9/9/23438/93771

We shouldn't have to be afraid.....but we are?

Posted by: avahome on September 10, 2006 at 12:44 AM | PERMALINK

If they admit defeat in Rhode Island now, does this mean they won't try to steal the votes electronically (or otherwise) in November?

Posted by: gmoke on September 10, 2006 at 12:46 AM | PERMALINK

Dang link on Symbol Susan - Susan Lindauer

here

Posted by: avahome on September 10, 2006 at 12:46 AM | PERMALINK

God, how I hate Lincoln Chaffe. The only reason he's a Republican is because his father wasn't a Democrat. Even if it's costs us the Senate, I would prefer it for the GOP voters in Rhode Island to vote for a real conservative than a "sure winner" like Chaffe. If the majority of voters in RI are too liberal to elect Laffey, it's their loss.

The actions of the NRSC are just another reason to hope that if the GOP has to lose a House of Congress this Nov., lets hope that it is the Senate and not the House.

Posted by: Chicounsel on September 10, 2006 at 12:46 AM | PERMALINK

Good one, "Al"

and the GOP GOTV operation is so good

What does this mean? Are Republicans more responsive to pressure from precinct workers, roboBush, etc.? There should be some anthropology books written on them.

Posted by: toast on September 10, 2006 at 12:48 AM | PERMALINK

Do you really think there wouldn't be enough pissed off real Republicans who would sit on their hands in November if Chaffee wins this way?

Posted by: hopeless pedant on September 10, 2006 at 12:54 AM | PERMALINK

I say cut the Rhode Island Republican party with a sword and give a portion to the "moderates", a portion to the "purists", and a portion to the democrats. This is the only way to be just.

Posted by: Solomon on September 10, 2006 at 1:00 AM | PERMALINK

Looks like the GOP has learned something from Joe's loss.

Posted by: Disputo on September 10, 2006 at 1:18 AM | PERMALINK

Chicounsel:

You *do* realize that last week both Cook and Rothenberg called the House for the Democrats, don't you?

In light of that, I find your pessimism about the Senate positively delicious :)

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 1:19 AM | PERMALINK

Toast, what I mean is that over the past few weeks, the Republicans have identified thousands of Chafee supporters in Rhode Island through phone calls and knocking on doors. They will use their considerable manpower and resources to make damn sure that all of them go to vote on Tuesday. The primary will be swamped with Chafee-supporting independents.

Of course, the best GOTV operation is moot if anger at the incumbent is high enough... but supposedly the campaigns' internal polls say that it's close. And if it's close, the GOTV will make the difference.

Posted by: Andrew on September 10, 2006 at 1:23 AM | PERMALINK

Thing is ... part of me would kind of hate to see ol' Linc leave the Senate. We need more completely exasperating figures to aggravate the GOP leadership :) OTOH, he's not exactly my favorite contrarian GOP Senator -- he just doesn't have the personality to be the kind of bombthrower that his ideology demands. I also wonder a little about his mental competence. He kind of looks like William Hurt after intensive neutron bombardment.

You know -- the way Reed Irvine looks like Orville Redenbacher after intensive neutron bombardment :)

On the other hand -- I'd probably hate more for the Dems not to pick up a seat.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 1:25 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin,

What you are watching is a power conflict between Libby Dole and Grover Norquist. The club for growth is running the Laffey show. Libby is trying to keep the Senate. Grover is playing in this case a longer term game than Libby is. He's not going to back down here. If he doesn't get Laffey the seat, he loses serious credibility and to keep his influence he has to appear even more undefeatable than Bush, otherwise his "leave me alone" coalition will schism.

If the dems want to keep Grover out of balance long term they should spend DNC money doing outreach to get progressive tax reform in Alabama, Mississippi and other deep south location. Grover can't defend he can only attack. And the Gulf state South is ready for change a year after Katrina with no government support. You show the dark red deep south that local tax policy changes can improve the lives of the average citizen his whole coalition falls apart. The table opens up all across the south for progressive ideas to blossom. That's without even another big hurricane.

Posted by: patience on September 10, 2006 at 1:33 AM | PERMALINK

Isn't that Liddy Dole? Or G. Gordon "Scooter" Libby?

In any case, where are the trolls with their endless snickering about democratic feebleness at the polls? When their guys and gals screw up (as opposed to the Diebold contract falling through), they suddenly disappear. BTW, the above can't be real Al. No way he knows phrases like "movement conservatives".

Posted by: Kenji on September 10, 2006 at 2:06 AM | PERMALINK

Actually, the White House appears to be supporting Joe Lieberman in Connecticut and leaving the Republican candidate out to dry.

By targeting Chafee they're sending a message to the rest of the moderates in the party. In short order there will be no more Yankee Republicans.

Posted by: bad Jim on September 10, 2006 at 2:09 AM | PERMALINK

the way Reed Irvine looks

Looked. He's dead.

Posted by: Reprobate on September 10, 2006 at 3:16 AM | PERMALINK

But has a preemptive declaration of defeat like this ever happened before?

How about when Lieberman "debated" Cheney?

Or when Bush said he would get Osama dead or alive?

Posted by: craigie on September 10, 2006 at 3:28 AM | PERMALINK

Reprobate:

You sure about that? It was always kind of hard to tell ...

patience:

The insight about the Liddy / Grover feud is interesting. Chalk up at least one good reason for Linc to keep his seat, then.

Of course, there isn't a prayer in hell that Laffey'd survive a Democrat, so it's kind of perversely thrilling to root for Grover here ...

I do think that GOTV is going to be key. And I agree -- the disgust factor is critical. It really depends on the sociology of RI Republicans. Do they have a sense of the outside world -- or are they all embittered curmudgeons, living on old estates formerly used by Gilded Age vacationers, all shrivelled and cranky that nobody pays attention to them?

If they're not very sophisticated, they could well be motivated by a nicely demagogic Club For Growth 527 campaign. Mmmm ... what's that I smell for dinner? :)

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 3:32 AM | PERMALINK

Kevin:

I don't think it's a "preemptive declaration of defeat" so much as it is precisely as your topic header has it: Vote for Linc or Else.

It's a way of whipping the Fear o' Gawd into any Republicans with enough sense to care about the national party. Since the strategy isn't a ruse but is literally true -- no harm in getting the message out prior to the election so the RI GOP doesn't feel abandonded without warning if they get all ornery and elect a conservative.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 3:42 AM | PERMALINK

Bush is a liberal on steroids!

think about it.
Bigger govt
more debt
more wars
==
Foreign interventionism requires the use of force. First, the funds needed to pursue a particular policy require that taxes be forcibly imposed on the American people, either directly or indirectly through inflation.
==
Bush being the ivey league liberal he is, has cut taxes for the wealthy..unloading the costs of war on the working class. Meanwhile the neo-liberals, are making out like fat cats in the robber baron era....
Why doesn't the media admit to that fact?
Bush is liberal when it comes to him and his cronies[govt contracts]
and the lobbyists give liberally $$ to the senators whom claim christianity, but who also take 'liberally' from the public trough.

'libera'l does not mean sex or drugs, as limbaugh hopes you believe, liberal is now the GOP.

wake up, Bush is no conservative, never has been, it's all about not being a conservative with these folks...lol, such is why I laugh at the conservatards, bush is a liberal monarchy. A monarchial liberal whom gives your tax money, 'liberally', the Gold, to his 'conservative' pals....

things are reversed in bush bizarro world

Welcome to 'newspeak' and 1984 Orwellia

Posted by: Trinary Suka on September 10, 2006 at 4:31 AM | PERMALINK

Foreign interventionism requires the use of force. First, the funds needed to pursue a particular policy require that taxes be forcibly imposed on the American people, either directly or indirectly through inflation.

wake up dum dums

Posted by: Trinary Suka on September 10, 2006 at 4:32 AM | PERMALINK

Actually Reprobate, since both Reed and Orville have been dead a while, I imagine they now look almost exactly alike.

Posted by: beowulf on September 10, 2006 at 4:34 AM | PERMALINK

the bush GOP are libertines and pedophiles;
"I think people are using
(pedophilia) for political purposes."
-- Sen. Rick Santorum, Republican

* Republican chairman of the Oregon Christian Coalition Lou Beres confessed to molesting a 13-year old girl.

* Republican County Constable Larry Dale Floyd was arrested on suspicion of soliciting sex with an 8-year old girl. Floyd has repeatedly won elections for Denton County, Texas, constable.

* Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.

* Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo was arrested for having sex with a 5-year old boy.

* Republican petition drive manager Tom Randall pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 14, one of them the daughter of an associate in the petition business.

* Republican County Chairman Armando Tebano was arrested for sexually molesting a 14-year-old girl.

* Republican teacher and former city councilman John Collins pleaded guilty to sexually molesting 13 and 14 year old girls.

* Republican campaign worker Mark Seidensticker is a convicted child molester.

* Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.

* Republican Mayor Tom Adams was arrested for distributing child pornography over the internet.

* Republican Mayor John Gosek was arrested on charges of soliciting sex from two 15-year old girls.

* Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.

* Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.

* Republican Committeeman John R. Curtain was charged with molesting a teenage boy and unlawful sexual contact with a minor.

* Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.

* Republican zoning supervisor, Boy Scout leader and Lutheran church president Dennis L. Rader pleaded guilty to performing a sexual act on an 11-year old girl he murdered.

* Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.

* Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.

* Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.

* Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.

* Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.

* Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer was sentenced to six years in prison for molesting two 8-year old girls, one of whom appeared in an anti-Gore television commercial.

* Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

* Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

* Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.

* Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.

* Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.

* Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.

* Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.

* Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.

* Republican Judge Ronald C. Kline was placed under house arrest for child molestation and possession of child pornography.

* Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

* Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.

* Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.

* Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.

* Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.

* Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.

* Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.

* Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.

* Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.

* Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.

* Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.

* Republican legislator Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).

* Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was found guilty of molesting a 15-year old girl.

* Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child.

* Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.

* Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.

* Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.

* Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.

* Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.

* Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

* Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.

* Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.

* Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a "good military man" and "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.

* Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.

* Republican campaign worker, police officer and self-proclaimed reverend Steve Aiken was convicted of having sex with two underage girls.

* Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.

* Republican president of the New York City Housing Development Corp. Russell Harding pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer.

* Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was found guilty of raping a 15-year old girl. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.
==
GOP = OCH [Organized Conservative Hypocrisy]

[libertine pervs cloaked in the bible and flag]

Posted by: Trinary Suka on September 10, 2006 at 4:36 AM | PERMALINK

wonder what that idiot AL has to say to this?

nothing lmao!!

Posted by: Trinary Suka on September 10, 2006 at 4:38 AM | PERMALINK

Grover can't defend he can only attack
==

good luck with that...grover.

Posted by: Trinary Suka on September 10, 2006 at 4:40 AM | PERMALINK

I predict the movement conservatives will flock to the polls and give Laffey a decisive victory. The Laffey victory will then put the Republican Party in a strong position to win the Senatorial seat in Rhode Island. A Chafee victory would mean almost certain defeat in November due to the anti-incumbancy mood of the electorate. A Laffey victory on the hand would give the voters the opportunity to throw out the do-nothing Democrats and their liberal Republican allies like Lincoln Chafee.
===
Bwwwaaaahahahhaaaaa you freak AL you like perverts and pedophiles eh?

sure Al, wacko, vote for these folks, they are just like you, hypcrites..

Posted by: Trinary Suka on September 10, 2006 at 4:42 AM | PERMALINK

Can you people please wait until AFTER the election to lose your minds?

Posted by: hildy on September 10, 2006 at 4:51 AM | PERMALINK

beowulf:

No, I think ol' Orville is alive and kicking. I just saw him on a commercial a couple weeks ago.

They don't run commercials when the pitchman has croaked -- do they?

I haven't a clue as I watch about two minutes of commercial television about every two weeks.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 4:55 AM | PERMALINK

Can you people please wait until AFTER the election to lose your minds?
==
why? the perverted republicans lost their minds, and apparently their morals long before this election.

Posted by: Trinary Suka on September 10, 2006 at 5:00 AM | PERMALINK

Trinary Suka:

What's your source on that long list of abuses?

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 5:08 AM | PERMALINK

look em up dude I aint your guide to the internet...


Posted by: Trinary Suka on September 10, 2006 at 5:10 AM | PERMALINK

Trinary Suka:

Okay then. You've just given me license to believe that you made the entire list up :)

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 5:15 AM | PERMALINK

Trinary Suka:

Anyone who pulled that list from a genuine source would just state the source without getting all huffy about it.

Sorry ... I'd *like* to believe ya ...

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 5:17 AM | PERMALINK

Trinary Suka:

See ... this is the price one pays for living in the Reality Based Community.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 5:19 AM | PERMALINK

Perhaps the GOP is offering Democrats a deal: we'll give you the Northeast if you'll give us the South.

Sometimes I think that deal has already been made.

Posted by: dr sardonicus on September 10, 2006 at 5:29 AM | PERMALINK

Sorry ... I'd *like* to believe ya ...

Bob

I don't want you to believe me, I want you to look it up for yourself. But yeh its so easy to use such a lame excuse..allow me to type one name into google and disprove you.
==
.. was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages ... the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year ...
www.indymedia.org/en/2005/05/872827.shtml

Posted by: Trinary Suka on September 10, 2006 at 5:45 AM | PERMALINK

in your reality based face 'BOB'
and BTW You look might foolish about now, so go change your post name and come back with a new one..cause your gonna need it

Reality based MSM idiot 'BOB'

Posted by: Trinary Suka on September 10, 2006 at 5:47 AM | PERMALINK

Shall I google another? 'BOB' rmck1?
I will.

Republican politician Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to minors under 16 (ie exposing himself to ...
www.hannity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2567.html

lmao hannity.com no less!!

bwwhahaha RMCK your an official moron

Posted by: Trinary Suka on September 10, 2006 at 5:50 AM | PERMALINK

Okay Trinary Suka, you got me cornered.

I feel like a fool and I'm going to go change my name now and stop voting for the GOP.

Thanks for your insite and truth.

We need more people like you Trinary, even though you are kinda abrasive..but that is what it takes to open peoples eyes, such as mine, sometimes, I apologize for doubting you. --Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 5:54 AM | PERMALINK

Trinary Suka:

So just why exactly do you seem so obsessed with sexual deviance?

I mean ... I'll bet you could pull up some names of convicted sex perverts who happened to be Democrats. Somehow I don't think that *political affiliation* makes all that much difference to being a slimebucket. Remember the recent conviction of those Nader petitioners for writing in Mickey Mouse and Fred Flinstone? (heh, google it :)

Are you trying to imply that Democratic sex perverts are somehow less hypocritical because they don't make morality such a big issue? On that you might have a point.

But really ... if you had to spend time in a jail cell with a Republican pervert or a Democratic pervert -- strikes me that'd be six of one or half-dozen of the other.

Political affiliation is no guarantee of virtue. That's just basic human nature.

And before you accuse me of being some sort of shill for the MSM -- why don't you google *my* posts and have a survey of who your dealing with?

Rhetorical behavior redolent of a meth pipe isn't going to help us win friends 'n' influence people.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 6:25 AM | PERMALINK

Trinary Suka:

And I guess the real question is:

Why didn't you simply cite your sources in the first place?

If you compiled the whole list yourself -- what's the shame in admitting it?

Why *alienate* somebody who happens to be on your side?

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 6:29 AM | PERMALINK

Trinary Suka:

Here's the main point: One of the things that we on the left so despise about those on the right is smug, self-righteous certitude. And while it certainly seems that there's more of that in on the right than on the left -- the right surely has no monopoly on it, either.

See, your survey doesn't support your contention that "Republicans are sex perverts." Anybody can google and cherry-pick facts to support their case. That's why googling is generally bullshit in debates. There's crap out there that will support *any* opinion.

In order to make your point, you'd have to have a gander at a sex offenders registry and sift through for data on political affiliation.

Though of course I'm more than willing to be refuted by the data, I'd guess that there'd be zero correlation.

Why? Because what a person believes in their conscious mind has no connection to the part of their brains that makes them do things that they know are clearly wrong. Pedophilia is a mental disease, not a consequence of ideology.

And if that makes it a little less *fun* to trash Republicans -- well, I'm terribly sorry about that.

You'll just have to look for a more substantial set of arguments.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 7:00 AM | PERMALINK

Bob is right. We need to be able to use this stuff against the Hypocrite Party, and so it needs to be verifiable beyond reproach, and packaged in a way that can't be refuted. It's a lot to ask, and we should ask it.

AND use it.

Posted by: Kenji on September 10, 2006 at 7:13 AM | PERMALINK

Yo Trinary Suka, helluva list you compiled, but you need to include links. As another poster said, we in the reality based community, also known as liberals, believe that evidence must accompany charges. In short: no link, no cred.

Posted by: Dazir on September 10, 2006 at 7:17 AM | PERMALINK

In an extraordinary pre-emptive announcement, the National Republican Senatorial Committee has said it will concede Rhode Island to the Democrats should Stephen Laffey, the mayor of Cranston, defeat [Lincoln] Chafee in the primary.


.

gop....cutting and running.....again...

Posted by: thisspaceavailable on September 10, 2006 at 8:14 AM | PERMALINK

One benefit for the nation from all this is that Chaffee has felt free to shitcan John Bolton.

Posted by: bob h on September 10, 2006 at 8:39 AM | PERMALINK

I don't want you to believe me, I want you to look it up for yourself.

No thanks. I'll just settle for not believing you.

Posted by: Red State Mike on September 10, 2006 at 8:44 AM | PERMALINK

I am so looking forward to the Rhode Island primary on September 12 when I, as an "unaffiliated" voter, will pull the lever for Laffey. Then on my way out of the polling booth, I will pick up a form to unaffiliate myself from the Republican party.

Laffey polls terribly against Sheldon Whitehouse.

Posted by: JAC on September 10, 2006 at 8:48 AM | PERMALINK

Andrew, I just wonder at what point door knockers and phone callers end up pissing people off into not voting. It's a lot easier to drive voters away than it is to get them to turn out.

If the republicans really have a killer GOTV system it has to be incredibly sensitive, restrained, centrally located, and organized up the wazoo. Hard to believe. More likely the initial contact is through ex-convict telemarketing flunkies who say they are calling for the dems and immediately call back hang ups with a list of preapproved obscenities.

Posted by: toast on September 10, 2006 at 9:40 AM | PERMALINK

Here are your links, all:

http://www.armchairsubversive.com/

Posted by: Freedom Phukher on September 10, 2006 at 9:48 AM | PERMALINK

Trinary Suka....

you left one out...

Bill Clinton...convicted of Felony Perjury for lying to a Federal Judge in a sex related case.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Posted by: tenthirteen on September 10, 2006 at 10:10 AM | PERMALINK

One other name, as well, is missing:

- George W. Bush who impregnated 15 year-old Robin Lowman in 1972, when he was 22. That's known as stautory rape.

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on September 10, 2006 at 10:17 AM | PERMALINK

Nice try on the GW abortion story, Conservative Deflator.

Two concepts you should know:

the source was reported by Larry FLYNT, (that purveyor of Truth) and has not to this day been able to be verified, and, George Bush was 26 in 1972, not 22. He just turned 60 years old.

So, not only do you report trash you most likely made up, you can't even count.

But then, one should not be surprised by that, now should one?

Posted by: tenthirteen on September 10, 2006 at 10:26 AM | PERMALINK

"If the republicans really have a killer GOTV system....." - toast


They do. It's called the Democratic Party. Every time Howard Dean, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi open their mouths, more Republicans commit to going to the polls.

Posted by: Jay on September 10, 2006 at 11:21 AM | PERMALINK

In this age of instant communication one would think democracy would be a given. Evidently the contrary is true. The communication can be used to destroy democracy more than help it. From a comment above, the GOP could savlage the midterm election by capturing or faking even the capture of Bin Laden.

Do we realize how true that is and how little sense it makes? What's the relationship of one to the other? It makes as little sense as firing the police chief because the police failed to capture a fugitive. And, while he's cleaning out his desk comes the job saving news, the fugitive has been captured so he's not fired after all.

They should be and are likely to be fired because they are a pack of incompetent stumble bums. Their record is what should be the vote deicder. So they finally got one thing right, maybe.

Posted by: BG on September 10, 2006 at 11:47 AM | PERMALINK

"Their record is what should be the vote deicder" - BG


12 Consecutive quarters of GDP growth

Historic low unemployment - 4.7%

All time high home ownership

Low inflation

Two very competent SCOTUS appointees

A freely elected representational government in Iraq and Afghanistan

New allies in India, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq

Saddam on trial

No terrorist incidence in America in five years with several attempts thwarted here and abroad

The record should indeed be the deciding factor. And it does need to be noted that the Democrats have opposed every program that resulted in the previous accomplishments.

Posted by: Jay on September 10, 2006 at 11:57 AM | PERMALINK

Where's the trolletariat now that we need it?

In the run-up to the CT primary, thousands of words spewed forth in the media - slavishly repeated here - on what a disaster CT was for the Democrats: how much money Ds had to spend to wage the primary, how this drained resources from other fights, and what a good thing this would be for republicans everywhere.

Care to weigh in on the blow-back from the RSCC lavishing money and mobilizing campaign workers for Linc when these resources are needed elsewhere in what is becoming (as Howard Dean has advocated and worked for) a real 50-state election?

The worse the RI fight gets the better for us as an effectively safe R seat switches to D. Laffey is unlikely to beat Whitehouse, and Linc's chances decline day by day: if Linc wins many wingnuts will stay home and Ds who might otherwise have voted for him will smell blood in the water.

Lets sit back and watch the fun! But trolls: why the silence????

Posted by: Friend of Labor on September 10, 2006 at 12:11 PM | PERMALINK

"new allies in India.....Pakistan..."

Well, if you follow that old line about "the enemy of my ally is my enemy", hmmmmm?

Posted by: stupid git on September 10, 2006 at 1:33 PM | PERMALINK

jay, free elections do not a democracy make. Individual rights make democracies. The pope is elected in a free election. Of course everyone is not allowed to vote just like in America.

When will Iraq and Afganastan become democracies? When Allah is defeated. Are you read for some football?

My eyesight is failing. How much money have they borrowed? I can't see the top of the "mountain of money." Faith moves mountains,, of money and lies. Who's getting, got all that money anyhow? I know, the ones that are lying.

Borrowed money is a tax increase on everyone. Inflation is exactly as high as the borrwoing. Yes indeed, they can lie about it but they can't disguise the price of gas or, for those who eat right and pay attention, the price of a can of string beans that's up 100% in 6 years. How much have the dues at the country club gone up since Bush was crowned? How about the green fees at Hilton Head? Pebble Beach anyone?

Is social security about to go bankrupt? If they can borrow to pay for war then they can borrow to pay for food to feed the old folks.

No Republican ever won a war. There's a chance Lincoln will win one if the civil war is ever over. They're still holding out hope in the red states. The war winners are the bleading heart liberals, Willson, FDR, Truman who know pussyfooting around only makes things worse. Ether fight to win of don't fight at all.

I for one am tired of "governing by leak." I prefer Nixon's plumbers to that. Them leaks is gonna get all plugged up come November.

Have you seen, http://www.hoax-buster.org Why not? Terrorism is as old as religion. The ones who attack the American way of life come from religion and not a country. Of course everyone is always in some country. Bush and his "borrow and stealers" don't have a clue about how to defeat terrorism.

Why doesn't he "defoliate" the heroine producing poppy crops in Afganastan? Is he worried about inflation in the illegal drugs? They use drug money to buy weapons to kill Americans. Roundup is the simple solution.

Posted by: BG on September 10, 2006 at 1:43 PM | PERMALINK

Tenthirteen

Where to begin?

President Clinton was never convicted of anything (except in your demeted head).

Bill Clinton arguably did not even commit perjury. Knowledgeable commentators understood (as well as the special prosecutors office) that the prosecutors would have a hard time making that one stick and they did not try.

The real question is what was up with the GOP's homo erotic obesession with President Clinton's penis and where it had been?

Not that there is anything wrong with homo erotic obesessions...

Posted by: molly bloom on September 10, 2006 at 2:16 PM | PERMALINK

"It's certainly the case that, in practice, national committees often cede races they know they can't win. But has a preemptive declaration of defeat like this ever happened before?"

Did they make an explicit declaration yet in Connecticut in favor of Joe Lieberman?

Posted by: jussumbody on September 10, 2006 at 2:34 PM | PERMALINK

I can't believe I actually agree with what Al said at 12:39.

Having seen Laffey and Chafee on the tube, Laffey seems to me the much more "attractive" candidate, articulate, energetic, great story.

Chafee "inherited" the seat and doesn't seem to be a natural politician.

I think Laffey would be the tougher Publican candidate.

So, good on you RNC. Keep up the good work!!!

Posted by: Cal Gal on September 10, 2006 at 3:10 PM | PERMALINK

Trinary Suka - Did I miss this one:

Susan Smith was molested by her stepfather who was a Republican big-wig in South Carolina, and we all know what kind of "family values" she turned out to have.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 10, 2006 at 3:25 PM | PERMALINK

Bill Clinton...convicted of Felony Perjury for lying to a Federal Judge in a sex related case.

False. Clinton was never convicted of any such thing. He wasn't even charged with perjury. Look it up, or ask Ken Starr.

Sure, Democrats have more than their share of sex scandals--but the difference is that they're with ADULTS as opposed to children, like all the GOP pedophiles listed above.
Why so easy to find so many GOP pedophiles? That's just creepy. Glad I'm not a Republican.

Posted by: haha on September 10, 2006 at 4:40 PM | PERMALINK

Hey, molly....it sounds like the bloom has come off your brain.

Bill Clinton didn't get convicted of anything, right? I suppose he just gave up his license to practice law for the fun of it. Conviction/plea deal, it's all the same. I'm content with that he is the ONLY President in the history of the Republic to have pleaded to a felony. Now, thats a GREAT LEGACY.

Posted by: tenthirteen on September 10, 2006 at 4:46 PM | PERMALINK

Conviction/plea deal, it's all the same.

Wrong again dumbass, look it up. No conviction(thanks for admitting you lied the first time around) and no "plea deal", since a plea deal would involve actual criminal charges, and Ken Starr(nor anyone else) ever brought criminal charges against Clinton. The state bar suspension of his attorney license was not a criminal matter. He settled the Paula Jones lawsuit, but that wasn't a criminal matter, and had already been dismissed on summary judgment. He obviously didn't want to deal with a neverending appeal process, like many businesses that are the subject of frivolous lawsuits.


I'm content with that he is the ONLY President in the history of the Republic to have pleaded to a felony.

Typical Republican dumbass, content with something that never happened. Please, provide us all with one legitimate source that states that Clinton ever pleaded guilty to a felony. He was never charged with a felony, so how would he plead guilty to one? Link please. Waiting....

Posted by: haha on September 10, 2006 at 4:58 PM | PERMALINK

It seems to me most likely that the GOP is making this announcement in order to scare the republicans into voting for Chafee. It may work. The republicans rule through manipulation of fear as it is.

Posted by: Pablo on September 10, 2006 at 4:58 PM | PERMALINK

Bob rmck1 --

"...I'd guess that there'd be zero correlation.

Why? Because what a person believes in their conscious mind has no connection to the part of their brains that makes them do things that they know are clearly wrong. Pedophilia is a mental disease, not a consequence of ideology...."

Posted by: rmck1 on September 10, 2006 at 7:00 AM | PERMALINK

On this I think you may be very wrong.

It would seem clear that pedophilia and under-age homosexuality is more heavily represented withing the Catholic clergy, a body with very clear moral strictures against such behavior.

It may well be that this behavior is more predominant within structures that repress normal sexuality or an ability to divert themselves to more socially acceptable sexual behavior. Trinary Suka could probably add a few evangelicals who support the Republican party.

In short, although it is statistically highly unlikely that Democrats would show a low level of similar abuses (I think ego and the control politicians crave is a real weakness), there may well be a statistically significant difference between the two.

Either way, the loser would claim that the other side is just more sly and just not getting caught.

Just saying.

Posted by: notthere on September 10, 2006 at 7:19 PM | PERMALINK

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se70te-1 Posted by: dd on September 10, 2006 at 7:32 PM | PERMALINK

Ha Ha nailed it, Tenthirtenn.

No conviction, no plea deal, no charges ever brought (other than the House's bullshit impeachment charges).

Try to get your facts straight. I'd explain the whole bar thing to you, but you need to have to do something to satisfy your Clinton lust, so I will let you do some googling.

Hint: try the phrase "duty of candor" and see what you learn from google. If you get that far, try to learn the differences between private reprimand, public reprimand, suspension and disbarment. (I really don't expect you to do this, cause it won't fit with your world view and wingnuts don't like having their world view upset).

Posted by: molly bloom on September 10, 2006 at 7:52 PM | PERMALINK

Why does this story make me think of Cleavon Little?

Posted by: Quaker in a Basement on September 10, 2006 at 10:34 PM | PERMALINK
...I'm content with that he is the ONLY President in the history of the Republic to have pleaded to a felony... tenthirteen at 4:46 PM
That's three felony arrests for Dubya but Dicky Cheney has only two Posted by: Mike on September 11, 2006 at 12:17 AM | PERMALINK

notthere:

Well, it's an entirely empirical question, of course, and I'm more than willing to be proven wrong ... but here's why I suspect I'm not and there's no significant difference between the amount of Republican and Democratic child molesters.

First it's a function of the press. When somebody's busted for being a pederast and their profile has nothing significant to do with politics or religion, these things aren't mentioned. The story's entirely about the conduct. When this person is a teacher, or a Boy Scout leader, or a leader of an evangelical youth group or a Catholic priest -- it's a much bigger story, because of the especial trust these sorts of people have with parents. The story's not merely about a pedophile -- it's about betrayal. The narrative is stronger, and these stories tend to be much more notorious and memorable.

When a member of NAMBLA gets busted for child porn, it's like well, duh. When a Mr. Garrison type (or a Homeland Security bureaucrat) gets busted for child porn, it's like stop the presses. Well, duh :)

Now while I agree with you that certain sexually repressive ideologies tend to produce abuse of both children and women because they lack outlets for healthy sexual expression, it's also true that ideologies which exhort people to sexually express themselves produce abuse as well. There have been many stories of New Age or 60s counterculture-type communes explicitly exhorting "free love" which have degenerated into cults of personality with criminal levels of sexual exploitation. That's to be expected. Just like you wouldn't expect NAMBLA members to be Catholics or evangelical Christians (or Republicans), but rather entirely secular, civil libertarian types.

So these two opposing tendencies tend, in the larger picture, to balance themselves out. That's my gut read, anyway. Again, I'm more than willing to be proven wrong with the data.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 11, 2006 at 8:22 AM | PERMALINK




 

 

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