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Tilting at Windmills

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September 11, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

HEALING THE WOUNDS....The Washington Post notes today that George Bush's visit to Ground Zero on Sunday "left aside the partisan rancor" we've all become so familiar with since shortly after 9/11. Mike Tomasky chuckles mordantly at this and points to the picture on the right as evidence that the Post apparently doesn't understand modern electoral politics very well. In case you don't get it either, here's the fourth paragraph of the Post piece:

Accompanied by Gov. George E. Pataki (R), New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg (R) and former mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani (R)....

That's a lot of R's in that picture, isn't it? Bush and his handlers understand very well that pictures are everything these days, and even on a day like this they'd rather have their big toes cut off than include New York's two Democratic senators in a ceremony where cameras are rolling.

These guys just don't know when to quit. It's enough to make you ill.

Kevin Drum 12:08 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (106)

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Comments

Kevin, I see your point -- but if you invite Schumer and Clinton, shouldn't you also invite the House delegation from New York City? (Whom, I believe, are all Democrats as well.)

Posted by: Vincent on September 11, 2006 at 12:43 PM | PERMALINK

Rude Pundit's post today says all we need to know about the President's visit to Ground Zero.

Posted by: alicia on September 11, 2006 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

I think everything these guys do is designed to make me (and everyone I know) ill. No wonder they don't support universal health care.

The elimination of useless eaters is their goal.

Posted by: Hostile on September 11, 2006 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

Why isn't Bush dressed in his flight suit? Isn't it about time for another Mission Accomplished moment?

Posted by: Red on September 11, 2006 at 12:54 PM | PERMALINK

Bush included Guiliani and Pataki because those two men were the two who took charge in NYC that day and started getting things done. They're the two men most New Yorkers, and most of the country, identify with the response to the WTC.

In contrast, I don't recall a single memorable thing Sen. Schumer or Sen. Clinton did or said that day or in the following days. Sorry folks, but when you want a proper photo of the political leaders of that day, Schumer and Clinton just don't make the first cut.

Posted by: Steve White on September 11, 2006 at 12:59 PM | PERMALINK

So, following on Al's and Steve White's logic, when Bush appears at the commemoration ceremony at the Pentagon he will pointedly exclude "federal officials" John Warner and George "Macaca" Allen (currently running for his life in VA)? Don't bet on it.

Posted by: Friend of Labor on September 11, 2006 at 1:04 PM | PERMALINK

mhr wrote: "I voted for Clinton twice and was a long-time Democrat at the time."

In addition to being a pathetic mental slave who is incapable of doing anything but robotically regurgitating scripted Republican right-wing extremist propaganda, you are a liar.

You have never been a Democrat. You never voted for Clinton. You have been a card-carrying member of the official Ann Coulter Cult of Clinton Hatred since before Clinton was first elected President.

You are a liar.

Posted by: SecularAnimist on September 11, 2006 at 1:11 PM | PERMALINK

The inclusion of the governor, mayor, and former mayor are hardly out of line. So, just to be clear, your only beef is that the two U.S. Senators were excluded?

Posted by: Grumpy on September 11, 2006 at 1:12 PM | PERMALINK

Typical. To hear Republicans tell it, 9/11 is their trademarked event.

When is the uniter going to realize he is the President of all of the American people and not just his rapidly declining political party. I guess if he ever acknowledged that he is President of all of the citizens of the United States, he might realize he has obligations to the rest of us.

Posted by: Ron Byers on September 11, 2006 at 1:14 PM | PERMALINK

These guys just don't know when to quit. It's enough to make you ill.

They know what every sociopath knows-- that to quit, to give ground, means that one's lies and carefully-constructed scams will fall apart. That's all they need to know.

But I agree on the second point.

Posted by: latts on September 11, 2006 at 1:14 PM | PERMALINK

I think everything these guys do is designed to make me (and everyone I know) ill. No wonder they don't support universal health care.

Posted by: K on September 11, 2006 at 1:15 PM | PERMALINK

The inclusion of the governor, mayor, and former mayor are hardly out of line. So, just to be clear, your only beef is that the two U.S. Senators were excluded?

Good point Grumpy. Bush thought it would be appropriate to include STATE officials but not FEDERAL officials. Senators are FEDERAL officials and therefore they weren't invited. What's wrong with that?

Posted by: Al on September 11, 2006 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, it makes me ill, too. But unfortunately, they have shown that by being relentless they can steamroller principled opposition. That opposition needs to be equally relentless (but hopefuully remain principled) in order to beat them

Posted by: Amy Richards on September 11, 2006 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINK

Who's the guy second from the right? He's got to be pushing seven feet...

Posted by: Ezra on September 11, 2006 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

I agree. Those on the Left simply don't know when to quit criticizing the President. It's a picture.

Kevin Drum. Hypocrisy. No assembly required.

Posted by: Birkel on September 11, 2006 at 1:24 PM | PERMALINK

My immune system is now naturally vaccinated against the sickening antics of these people. My only reaction is one of utter surprise that the others are shocked at yet one more example of what has been their SOP for the last five years.

Posted by: gregor on September 11, 2006 at 1:26 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin, OT -- No one here is a bigger Tiger Woods fan, but the *first* question to Federer? After becoming the first person ever to threepeat Wimbleton and USO??

Yeesh.

Posted by: Al's Mommy on September 11, 2006 at 1:26 PM | PERMALINK

5 years have passed and these same people are walking around in the same 70ft deep hole. How some things never change.

Posted by: jerri on September 11, 2006 at 1:27 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin, I'm quite shocked at your post. Of course the Bushies will use this for the Rs. They would lock up all Ds if they could.

There is nothing "sick" about BushCo's behavior -- it is the new normal.

What *is* still amazing is how they play the media -- has anyone ever been better at manipulating the entire talking-heads class? Really -- they can get them to do / say anything!

Posted by: Al's Mommy on September 11, 2006 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

Since the point, according to our loyal Gollum Al, was simply to exclude federal officials, shouldn't Chimpleton have been left back in Washington to play on his exercycle?

Posted by: olds88 on September 11, 2006 at 1:30 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe what the Post means by "left aside the partisan rancor" is the exclusion of Karl Rove and Dick Cheney.

Posted by: Ack Ack Ack Ack` on September 11, 2006 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINK

Also the Jerry Nadler, who represents the district in the House, is not included.

Posted by: hopeless pedant on September 11, 2006 at 1:32 PM | PERMALINK

I'm so glad Laura is there. Without her, why, this would all just be a lot of feel-good fluff for the Republican party, but with her included, um,...

Posted by: Red State Voter on September 11, 2006 at 1:33 PM | PERMALINK

where was the pet goat?

Posted by: Al's Mommy on September 11, 2006 at 1:33 PM | PERMALINK

Good point Grumpy. Bush thought it would be appropriate to include STATE officials but not FEDERAL officials. Senators are FEDERAL officials and therefore they weren't invited. What's wrong with that?
Posted by: Al

Fine, Al, let's see if Dumbya includes FEDERAL officials, Sens. Warner and Allen, in his Pentagon commemoration. What will you say then?

Posted by: MeLoseBrain? on September 11, 2006 at 1:34 PM | PERMALINK

Hillary and Schumer attended at least one 9/11 memorial today.

Not all dignitaries are attending all the same events.

Posted by: ein on September 11, 2006 at 1:34 PM | PERMALINK

My dear Al is right -- 9/11 was only a State event, and Bush is merely a State official!

Posted by: Al's Mommy on September 11, 2006 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

Do we know for sure that they weren't invited? Maybe they felt being with Bush at the time would be taken as showing solidarity with him or something.

It wouldn't surprise me if Bush just only chose Republicans, but it's always best to explore alternative explanations in these situations.

Posted by: Jeff on September 11, 2006 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

It's enough to make you ill.

Now that I have read the daily whine, I can focus my reading on learning new stuff at other sites. It may be enough to make you ill. It is reminiscent of Lincoln's disgusting practice of pardoning soldiers whose mothers came to his office accompanied by their Republican elected officials; and of his commissioning political hacks like Benjamin Butler and Nathanial Banks.

Posted by: republicrat on September 11, 2006 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK

Al, you're such a fucking tool. By your logic, Bush shouldn't be there because he's a federal official. Where are the local representatives? Those senators happen to represent the same people of that city. I suppose it's OK to pick and choose whose respect and grief matters the most. Asshole.

Posted by: bigcat on September 11, 2006 at 1:38 PM | PERMALINK

For the love of God...oops...god, is there any event that has taken place in the recent past that you don't have issues with? I hop on and off here for months at a time and its always the same. The same bunch of bitching and moaning by the same cast of characters. Common sense has all but left the majority of you. You can't just take something for what it is, you always have to bitch about it. What lonely sad pathetic little lives you all must lead.

Posted by: happy glimore on September 11, 2006 at 1:38 PM | PERMALINK

"The whole commemoration of the islamofascist attack on the US of September 11, 2001 must gall liberals. They want so much that we forget it ever happened."

At some point the deaths of nearly 3,000 innocents (save for Barbara Olson) will be overshadowed by subsequent events. As an example, soon that many American troops will have died in aWol's bogus war.

We don't wish to forget the attack; we just want to move on to establish a global enviornment where the have-nots catch up with the haves, making them less likely to "hate our freedoms."

And we certainly don't see it appropriate that the public remain fearful to such an extent as dictated by this "administration."

Posted by: Hedley Lamarr on September 11, 2006 at 1:39 PM | PERMALINK

And he wiped his feet on the US flag!

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/

He's truly gone into Gerald Ford mode.

The pictures at

http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/9/11/23056/7770

show how empty is the area around Bush. Wouldn't want any spontaneous expressions of democracy ruining his special day.

Posted by: otherpaul on September 11, 2006 at 1:50 PM | PERMALINK

Why does Mike Tomasky chuckle about something like this? The press doesn't pick-up on this or question it. The press didnt see any reason to qeustion the Bush administraton on the issue at all.

If Kevin Drum thinks that those silly lefty liberal MoveOn.org people where irrelevant, why then should the press see any reason to included silly lefty liberals either.

Really Kevin, how is it that you complaint about you have such a health hand in labeling silly.

Posted by: Cheryl on September 11, 2006 at 1:54 PM | PERMALINK

Watch CNN.

You'll hear every administration official 'mourning' or 'remembering' - and since they're the leading party right now, it's their right.

But let's not hear anything about them being non-partisan as they do this. Because they're as partisan as it can be.

There's nothing to blame Democrats for, yet... They'll find a way.

Posted by: Crissa on September 11, 2006 at 2:01 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, it'd only look more partisan if they were 'lucky' enough to have an R-type Senator or local Representative.

They'd have invited them for the photo shoot, too, of course.

Posted by: Crissa on September 11, 2006 at 2:03 PM | PERMALINK

First of all, "9/11" sounds to hip and catch-phrasey, like "24/7." And "Ground Zero" gives the terrorists the site, and then dismisses the other two highjackings. It was September 11, and the World Trade Center was the first target struck. There are only two real "ground zero's" in the world, and they are both in Japan. Calling it that fron the outset was a psychological ploy, and the entire world fell for it. Ground Zero explicitly implies a nuclear strike, and everyone who lived through the cold war knows that full measure.

And nobody wants to forget it ever happened, as some nutter upthread stated. Don't ascribe motives to others, especially if your own are specious to thinking individuals.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 11, 2006 at 2:05 PM | PERMALINK

. . .reminiscent of Lincoln's disgusting practice of . . . commissioning political hacks like Benjamin Butler and Nathanial Banks . . ."

Who were Democrats, before the war. If only GWB felt the same need to unify the country!

Posted by: rea on September 11, 2006 at 2:10 PM | PERMALINK

Hedley Lamarr wrote: "At some point the deaths of nearly 3,000 innocents (save for Barbara Olson) will be overshadowed by subsequent events."

Like, for example, the deaths of approximately 150,000 innocents in automobile accidents in the USA in the five years since the 9/11/2006 attacks.

Posted by: SecularAnimist on September 11, 2006 at 2:12 PM | PERMALINK

Giuliani (far right in photo) tried to shelve democracy by extending his term an extra 3 months because the only people who could keep New York safe were him and his police commissioner, Bernard Kerik. Bloomberg (far left in photo) agreed with Giuliani. The question is if the guy in the middle holding the babe will try the same thing.

Giuliani and Pataki (the tall guy, 6'5", in photo) think they can get past the creationist wing of the Republican party in 2008. How charming.

Posted by: Terence on September 11, 2006 at 2:13 PM | PERMALINK

The current governor, the current mayor, and the mayor who was there on 9/11.

I think that's very reasonable. Let's keep our attacks on these guys to what's not reasonable. It's not like we don't have enough to work with.

Posted by: catherineD on September 11, 2006 at 2:28 PM | PERMALINK

I'm not one to lightly throw around the word RINO, but if it applies to anyone, it applies to Bloomberg. Pataki, Giuliani, and Bloomberg aren't exactly the Neo-Con crew we would see if Bush were trying to tie 9/11 to Iraq or any other Republican policies in the War on Terror. This is about as non-partisan as anyone could reasonably expect a sitting president to be.

Posted by: FXKLM on September 11, 2006 at 2:31 PM | PERMALINK

screw rudy. he lied to the people working at ground zero. let he and christie whitman tear each other apart. then sue their pants off and thrrow them in jail.

i mean screw hillary and schumer for suporting the iraq goatf*uck, but if i were them, i wouldn't stand within spitting distance from saint rudy, let alone the chimp. not even on 9/11. Especially on 9/11.

Posted by: benjoya on September 11, 2006 at 2:35 PM | PERMALINK

The same bunch of bitching and moaning by the same cast of characters. Common sense has all but left the majority of you. You can't just take something for what it is, you always have to bitch about it. What lonely sad pathetic little lives you all must lead.
Posted by: happy glimore on September 11, 2006 at 1:38 PM | PERMALINK

Common sense? Common sense? What the hell does showing up propaganda for what it is go against common sense? Wake up. Don't you know when you are being manipulated. Or do you even care? Maybe you are happy to live the lie. To let the the colossal GOP failure filled government of today continue?

Do yourself a favor and don't be a useful idiot for the GOP.

Posted by: Nemesis on September 11, 2006 at 2:36 PM | PERMALINK

screw bloomberg too. he invited the ghoul convention here in '04, so they could squeeze more political sustenence out of our dead. screw him sideways.

then to show the national GOP how cool he was with police state tactics, he arrested over a thousand citizens whose cases were subsequently thrown out when videotaped evidence exonerated. after they spent as long as 2 days in a makeshift prison in a pier on the west side. an apology? not on your life. screw him, let him go back to boston.

and yes, ther's a huge lawsuit coming. and no they haven't settled.

Posted by: benjoya on September 11, 2006 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

If Bush had included Republicans who are running for office in November, then Kevin would have a legitimate beef. None of the four people at the ceremony is running for anything in 2006.

Also, as was mentioned, no Democrat is noted for demonstarting leadership immediately after 9/11. Maybe that's because they didn't happen to hold relevant office at that time. Nevertheless, there was no Democrat particularly associated with fighting the GWOT in 2001, and there's still no Democrat five years later.

Posted by: ex-liberal on September 11, 2006 at 2:49 PM | PERMALINK

Somebody above thinks Lincoln actually united the North during the Civil War.

Could rea please get me a juice box when she gets up from her red and blue mat?

Posted by: Birkel on September 11, 2006 at 2:49 PM | PERMALINK

SecularAnimist @ 2:12 said:"Like, for example, the deaths of approximately 150,000 innocents in automobile accidents in the USA in the five years since the 9/11/2006 attacks." The number is really closer to 215,000 using highway stats from the gov't.

Posted by: Charly_not_Charlie on September 11, 2006 at 3:08 PM | PERMALINK

"ex-liberal" wrote: If Bush had included Republicans who are running for office in November, then Kevin would have a legitimate beef.

No, Kevin has a legitimate beef as it is, which you have failed to rebut. Thus, your pathetic attempt at changing the subject fails as well. As usual.

Also, as was mentioned, no Democrat is noted for demonstarting leadership immediately after 9/11.

Neither was Bush, for that matter. Given that Cheney hid in his "undisclosed location" and Bush ran around like a scared rabbit in Air Force 1, this photo op is clearly about reinforcing the kind of false image that "ex-liberal" tries to project.

And, of course, the co-called "liberal media" played along. Funny, that.

Still, it's encouraging -- "ex-liberal" comes here to admit the GOP has nothing but lies. We knew that, of course, but it's refreshing to see him/her/it acknowledge it by such pathetic arguments. Thanks.

Posted by: Gregory on September 11, 2006 at 3:09 PM | PERMALINK

You libs.....

Can't our president just honor the memories of those fallen Americans without you making a political agenda out of it.. For Shame!!!

Posted by: Paul the Cynic on September 11, 2006 at 3:09 PM | PERMALINK

Well, duh. OF COURSE, they avoided partisan rancor by excluding Democrats. You can only have rancor if other parties are involved. One party, no rancor. Simple.

Posted by: CT on September 11, 2006 at 3:13 PM | PERMALINK

Can't our president just honor the memories of those fallen Americans without him making a political agenda out of it.. For Shame!!!

Posted by: the last five years on September 11, 2006 at 3:13 PM | PERMALINK

Can't our president just honor the memories of those fallen Americans without you making a political agenda out of it.

Tell you what...I'll accept that argument if you can name one action -- just one -- Bush took in response to the august 6 PDB.

Other than telling the briefer "you've covered your ass now," of course.

I'll wait.

Posted by: Gregory on September 11, 2006 at 3:19 PM | PERMALINK

Speaking of partisan rancor, here's Sen. Schumer yesterday:

Democratic Senator Charles Schumer of New York says Cheney "represents what's wrong with this country."

Yeah, he should have been invited.

Posted by: Brian on September 11, 2006 at 3:20 PM | PERMALINK

Speaking of partisan rancor, here's Sen. Schumer yesterday:

Democratic Senator Charles Schumer of New York says Cheney "represents what's wrong with this country."

I dunno, Cheney seems like a pretty fine representation of the modern GOP.

Posted by: Gregory on September 11, 2006 at 3:21 PM | PERMALINK

Cheney is a liar, and watching him squirm yesterday was so - schasdenfreude I could have wept. Every word out of that son-of-a-bitches mouth is a lie. Including "and" "the" and "if you will."

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 11, 2006 at 3:26 PM | PERMALINK

Well, reality (I don't get to make mine up as I go along) calls, and a colloquium requires my attendance. Back later.

Left of Liberal: It's good to know you are still out there. I for one have missed your eloquent posts, and assume that you will bless us all again with your charm and wit when a medical topic of relevance comes up again?

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 11, 2006 at 3:32 PM | PERMALINK

It is reminiscent of Lincoln's disgusting practice of pardoning soldiers whose mothers came to his office accompanied by their Republican elected officials; and of his commissioning political hacks like Benjamin Butler and Nathanial Banks.

OK, republicrap, would that be anything like the Iraqi leadership pardoning insurgents who blow up our troops? And that this administration supports that?

For a fan of this administration to accuse anyone of employing political hacks is beyond contempt, no less when you impugn a true American hero like Lincoln. Methinks you should learn a little history before proving how little of it you know.

Posted by: MeLoseBrain? on September 11, 2006 at 3:44 PM | PERMALINK

What lonely sad pathetic little lives you all must lead.
happy gilmore

Coming from a guy who hits golf balls with a hockey stick, that's quite a statement.

Posted by: MeLoseBrain? on September 11, 2006 at 3:45 PM | PERMALINK

EVERYONE know that the Aug 6 PDB was a historical document. Move on!!!

Paul the Cynic

Posted by: Paul the Cynic on September 11, 2006 at 3:48 PM | PERMALINK

EVERYONE know that the Aug 6 PDB was a historical document. Move on!!!

What the hell does this mean?

But I'm still waiting for you to name one action Bush took in response to the August 6 PDB. For example, you could name an action he took in response to its warning that al Qaeda was planning to hhijack US aircraft. Of course, no hijacking, no 9/11.

Or is your "historical document" allusion an admission that Bush, by taking no action at all, engaged in a historical failure to defend the nation from the al Qaeda threat?

Posted by: Gregory on September 11, 2006 at 3:52 PM | PERMALINK

...they'd rather have their big toes cut off than include New York's two Democratic senators in a ceremony where cameras are rolling.

Damn that sounds like fun. Get the pruning shears.

Posted by: Riesz Fischer on September 11, 2006 at 3:56 PM | PERMALINK

11th Sept = failure of the Clinton Administration to pay attention to sinking of the Cole ect. Remember that Clinton's man Berger refused to give the CIA the go-ahead to "sanction" Osama. Its history, learn to live with it.

Posted by: Paul the Cynic on September 11, 2006 at 4:05 PM | PERMALINK

Its history, learn to live with it.

One would think you'd be able by now to cite the "history" of some action Bush took to defend the country after the august 6 PDB. Instead you attempt to distract by mentioning Clinton and again calling it "history."

Perhapse you should take your own advice and go ahead and admit that Bush did nothing, as far as anyone can tell. Surely you've shown by your Bush Cultism that you can live with that.

Posted by: Gregory on September 11, 2006 at 4:15 PM | PERMALINK

Hello? We all know Democrats don't act right. They're like the low-class kids that you can't take somewhere nice w/o them pulling their crap. Examples: Wellstone memorial, Coretta Scott King funeral, Clinton and his broad at the service for Reagan. They have shown that they can't be trusted to behave properly.

Posted by: Megan on September 11, 2006 at 4:21 PM | PERMALINK

Examples: Wellstone memorial, Coretta Scott King funeral, Clinton and his broad at the service for Reagan. They have shown that they can't be trusted to behave properly.

Oh, yes, examples, please!

What was objectionable about the Wellstone memorial?

What was objectionable about Coretta Scott King's funeral?

What was objectionable about "Clinton and his broad at the service for Reagan"?

Since Republicans have shown that they can't be trusted to tell the truth, I'm afraid your mere regurgitation of Rush Limbaugh talking points ins't very impressive. So please -- put up or shut up.

Posted by: Gregory on September 11, 2006 at 4:27 PM | PERMALINK

Bush even used his Sunday worship on 9/10 to try to score political points. I heard a radio report on his comments after the service, whereupon he said something bland and forgettable about the event (something like "it was sad") and then added "and I vow never to forget the lessons of 9/11." They just never miss an opportunity to politicize this tragedy.

Posted by: Terry Young on September 11, 2006 at 4:29 PM | PERMALINK

Paul the Cynic is a fool. Deep down in his heart of hearts, he knows the truth - and he cannot handle it. He and others know the Bu$hco is a criminal enterprise. I am not sure why they hate America, but they do. All of the lessons of the past, and the wisdom of our fore fathers should be enough for him to understand he is at the wrong end of history. Maybe they cling to the false hope out of embarrassment or pride. Maybe they truly believe Bush is the 2nd comming of Christ. Maybe they have so much invested in their worship of "dear leader", they cannot allow any dissent; lest their bubble world evaporates. I don't know. I would like to ask two questions of the folks who support Bush without question:
1) When do you think the war on terra will end? Have you any idea if your confused and childish leader does?
2) What civil liberty - gained through blood, sweat, and tears over our entire history - would you not be willing to give up in the war on terra? Random searches of homes and person?, opening your first class mail?, random interrogation of your family members?, secret courts where citizens are tried and convicted without ever knowing what the charges and evidence were?, the daily excercise of "show me your papers"?. I'm serious. Is there any constitutional right you would not waive? How do we win if, in the end, we live in the same type of world of those we are fighting against? How insane does a person have to be to declare "we have to destroy your freedoms to make you free".

Posted by: Tom on September 11, 2006 at 4:39 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin's point would make more sense if Bloomberg were an actual Republican instead of a Democrat that simply wanted to avoid a difficult primary.

Terry Young: then [Bush] added "and I vow never to forget the lessons of 9/11." They just never miss an opportunity to politicize this tragedy.

Guess Kevin isn't the only hypersensitive one.

Posted by: Point C on September 11, 2006 at 4:44 PM | PERMALINK

Show this picture with the caption "People in office on 911 who have not been held responsible"

Posted by: madmatt on September 11, 2006 at 4:47 PM | PERMALINK

Here are a few statistics before I go, since I am in that mode.

one in five Americans knew someone who was either hurt or killed in the attacks of September 11, 2001.

Citizens of 115 nations were killed by terrorists that day.

1,609 people lost a spouse or partner in the attacks.

3,051 children lost a parent.

1,300 children were made orphans.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 11, 2006 at 5:05 PM | PERMALINK

Tom wrote: What civil liberty - gained through blood, sweat, and tears over our entire history - would you not be willing to give up in the war on terra? Random searches of homes and person?, opening your first class mail?, random interrogation of your family members?, secret courts where citizens are tried and convicted without ever knowing what the charges and evidence were?, the daily excercise of "show me your papers"?. I'm serious. Is there any constitutional right you would not waive? How do we win if, in the end, we live in the same type of world of those we are fighting against? How insane does a person have to be to declare "we have to destroy your freedoms to make you free".

Tom, history says that liberty is stronger in the US than you fear. Bush hasn't locked American up for simply disagreeing with him, as Lincoln did during the Civil War. After the war, our civil liberties recovered. But, if Lincoln hadn't won the war, the South would still have slavery,

Bush hasn't locked up all Arab-Americans the way FDR put the Japanese-Americans in concentration camps. After the war, the civil rights of Japanese Americans were restored. But, had FDR lost the war, all Americans might have been living under a fascist dictatorship.

I don't like infringing on civil liberties, but I have confidence that the infringements will be undone. However, if we lose this war, many people will be living under an Islamic fascism. The most important civil liberties step our government can take is winning the GWOT.

Posted by: ex-liberal on September 11, 2006 at 5:06 PM | PERMALINK

Democratic Senator Charles Schumer of New York says Cheney "represents what's wrong with this country."

Yeah, he should have been invited.

Posted by: Brian on September 11, 2006 at 3:20 PM | PERMALINK

At least Schumer has a grip on reality. Cheney is just delusional as are his followers and apologists. How can you carry water for that evil son of a bitch? Christ at this point he's directly responsible for putting America into the crapper and getting a lot of people killed for squat. This is your leader of choice?

Posted by: Nemesis on September 11, 2006 at 5:13 PM | PERMALINK

It's just too damn bad that fighting ideology by conventional warfare isn't a cakewalk, isn't it, ex-liberal? You win against terrorists when you restore hope and promote economic parity and it helps to not have a history of meddling in a regions internal affairs to get your hands on their resources.

And on that note, I gotta go - the Metro waits for no woman.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 11, 2006 at 5:18 PM | PERMALINK

Hello? We all know Democrats don't act right. They're like the low-class kids that you can't take somewhere nice w/o them pulling their crap. Examples: Wellstone memorial, Coretta Scott King funeral, Clinton and his broad at the service for Reagan. They have shown that they can't be trusted to behave properly.

Posted by: Megan on September 11, 2006 at 4:21 PM | PERMALINK

That funny comming from the party of professional slanderers, liars and hate mongers. From Joe McCarthy to Dick Nixon to todays professional toadies (Limbaugh, Coulter, Scarborough, Hewitt, Hannity, ect....).

You are the sickos in the story Megan. Souls so twisted and vile you destory everything you touch because your motives are selfserving and evil.

Posted by: Nemesis on September 11, 2006 at 5:19 PM | PERMALINK

All the libs do is grouse and grouse about "loss of liberty" How about the loss of liberty of the 3000 murdered in the towers??? Don't they count in the lib book? What liberties am I willing to give up?? I don't know, but I have nothing to hide, how about you, Tom?

Posted by: Paul the Cynic on September 11, 2006 at 5:21 PM | PERMALINK

However, if we lose this war, many people will be living under an Islamic fascism. The most important civil liberties step our government can take is winning the GWOT.

Posted by: ex-liberal on September 11, 2006 at 5:06 PM | PERMALINK

The number one thing you can do to make sure that America wins the GWOT is to get the GOP out of Congress and the Presidency and put Democrats in.
If you want to get out of the pit, stop digging the hole.

There a now dozens of books out there from seasoned counter terrorism professials explaining why this is so. You can inform yourself if you care to look. That is assuming that you are brave enough to challange your political beliefs. Most people aren't.

Posted by: Nemesis on September 11, 2006 at 5:25 PM | PERMALINK

11th Sept = failure of the Clinton Administration to pay attention to sinking of the Cole ect.

What Paul the Idiot fails to realize is that Clinton did not want to burden Bush the Dumber with his (Clinton's) decision, like Bush the smarter had done to Clinton (by sending American troops to Somalia shortly after losing the election).

Paul, assuming you care to learn a little recent history, the Cole bombing occurred in Oct. of 2000, weeks before the Presidential election. The investigation into the bombing wasn't completed until Dec. of that year. Clinton could have attacked Afghanistan, but felt it should be the incoming President's choice to do so. His staff left the plan with the Bushies, in fact, Sandy Berger held dozens of meeting with Condi Rice, in which they both agreed these plans were discussed (although Condi tried to deny ever meeting with Berger after 9/11). Bush chose to do nothing, so your diatribe against Clinton should really be against Bush. Don't you agree, Paulie?

Posted by: MeLoseBrain? on September 11, 2006 at 5:28 PM | PERMALINK

Most patriotic blog of the day. Go read it.

Posted by: gregor on September 11, 2006 at 5:31 PM | PERMALINK

of course it's "us libs" in new york who wouldn't have voted for bush on 9/12/01, let alone any other day. but we don't know about terrorism like you do, bubba.

Posted by: benjoya on September 11, 2006 at 5:32 PM | PERMALINK

It's enough to make you ill.

Oh I've been ill for some time now.

Posted by: ckelly on September 11, 2006 at 5:34 PM | PERMALINK

no offense to rural southern progressives, either of them.

Posted by: benjoya on September 11, 2006 at 5:34 PM | PERMALINK

But, if Lincoln hadn't won the war, the South would still have slavery

So both republicrap and ex-lib are pulling their Lincoln ignorance out of their asses (or is it only one ass?). The South would still have slavery? What idiot really believes that?

Lincoln's idea all along was that, if constrained to its original states, slavery would eventually die out (he believed the Constitution protected slavery in states where it already existed). The Emancipation Proclamation was issued largely to cut off the South from its free labor source, which was doing the work normally reserved for troops (digging trenches, building roads, bridges, etc). If the South had agreed to negotiate up until that point, Lincoln would have allowed slavery to continue.

BTW, Dumbya is no Lincoln.

Posted by: MeLoseBrain? on September 11, 2006 at 5:34 PM | PERMALINK

All the libs do is grouse and grouse about "loss of liberty" How about the loss of liberty of the 3000 murdered in the towers??? Don't they count in the lib book? What liberties am I willing to give up?? I don't know, but I have nothing to hide, how about you, Tom?
Posted by: Paul the Cynic on September 11, 2006 at 5:21 PM | PERMALINK

So that's it. That is your memorial to the 3000 dead? Turning America into a presidential dictatorship? I am sure the 3000 would really appeciate you using 9/11 to burn The Constitution on top of their fresh graves. I am sure their ghost would rise up and strangle you for such an affront, such a ghoolish use of their deaths. We died so that idoits could make the President a King, gee thanks, what a tribute.

You know what would have been a good tribute Paul, capturing and or killing Osama Bin Laden. But someones idiot president and idiot political party decided it was better to drain all our resources out of Afghanistan and into Iraq, by choice, by God Damn Choice.

So who makes the Ghosts of the 3000 9/11 victims wail at night? IDIOT CONSERVATIVES WHO FAILED TO GET OSAMA BY ATTACKING IRAK.

Don't you ever slander liberals again, your not worthy to kiss our feet.

Posted by: Nemesis on September 11, 2006 at 5:36 PM | PERMALINK

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/blogphotos/Blog_Bush_9_11_2006.jpg

And people actually think these suits and ties are what keeps you safe?

Think again, its the people on the front lines..these people only steal the limelight and act as if they are some kind of warriors.

Most of them are chicken hawks...Like Cheney saying that Americans dont have the heart for a battle while he took five deferments to stay out of vietnam...This is why I don't like Cheney, he walks around talking like a super hero when him and his il are super-chickens..

Disgusting photograph..btw who is the guy in the dress..Mehlman??

Posted by: Chicken Shack on September 11, 2006 at 5:40 PM | PERMALINK

I don't know, but I have nothing to hide, how about you, Tom?
Posted by: Paul the Cynic

So you won't mind then, if we put cameras in every room of your house (in your case, every room of your mother's basement), tape all of your phone calls, track all of your e-mails, right? I mean, you have nothing to hide, right?

Civil liberties have nothing to do with "something to hide", you moronic dipshit. It has to do with the government having no business tracking personal and private communications.

Are you still a bedwetter, Paulie? You certainly sound like one. You probably cry and whimper to Dumbya's picture, "please protect us, Daddy Dumbya, the evil terrists are coming to get us and I ascared!" You guys are pathetic. A bunch of low-life losers with razor blades hit the jackpot of their lives, and you want to throw away 240 years of our freedoms because you're too stupid to realize that rightards have no interest in stopping terrorists - they are only interested in stopping dissent.

Asshole.

Posted by: MeLoseBrain? on September 11, 2006 at 5:42 PM | PERMALINK

Its next to impossible to have a reasoned discussion with you libs. As soon as your specious arguement is dismantled, you resort to calling names

melosebrain calls me an idiot?

tom calls me a fool?

Sticks and stones.....

Posted by: Paul the Cynic on September 11, 2006 at 5:46 PM | PERMALINK

Sorry folks, but when you want a proper photo of the political leaders of that day, Schumer and Clinton just don't make the first cut.

Then why is Bush there? He certainly was no leader that day.

Posted by: ckelly on September 11, 2006 at 5:49 PM | PERMALINK

Best mhr parody ever (@ 1:04)

That was a parody right?

Posted by: ckelly on September 11, 2006 at 5:50 PM | PERMALINK

All the libs do is grouse and grouse about "loss of liberty" How about the loss of liberty of the 3000 murdered in the towers??? Don't they count in the lib book? What liberties am I willing to give up?? I don't know, but I have nothing to hide, how about you, Tom?

Ahhh, the "I have nothing to hide" routine. The connection between your two phases(loss of liberties vs. loss of 3000 brave Americans) have nothing to do with each other (and yes, they do very much count in my book). One event happened before the other. They do not tie together at all, except for "dear leader" using it against ALL Americans (including you). You still (as is the case with many republicans) never answered my simple questions. How do we "win" the war on terra and what liberties would you not be willing to give up? They are very straight forward questions, ya know? Why can't we ask our government to do a better job of protecting us, rather than they asking us to turn a blind eye toward their grasp for power? If you are old enough to have fought in WWII or Korea or Vietnam, I would ask you to explain what those brave men and women were fighting for? They were fighting to ensure our way of life was intact. They were fighting to be able to excercise free speech, freedom of expression, freedom to gather together, freedom of the press, freedom from unreasonable searches, free from an intrusive government, freedom from - Oh never mind...You wouldn't get it anyway. So because I have something/nothing to hide, that should decide if I want my inalienable rights discarded or not? You are a patheic loser - surely not a loyal American. I think there are some parts of Russia (and the middle east) whose governments are more inline with your current "no liberties" philosophy. Maybe you could move there, rather than asking all us loyal Americans to ignore the Bill of Rights. Don't you agree? Remember: dear leader will be gone soon. Then who ya gonna worship?

Posted by: Tom on September 11, 2006 at 5:57 PM | PERMALINK

Who to worship? I worship only the true God, not some namby pamby god like yours.

Who is next??? Brother Jeb, of course.

Bring on 2008!!!

Posted by: Paul the Cynic on September 11, 2006 at 6:11 PM | PERMALINK

At least Schumer has a grip on reality. Cheney is just delusional as are his followers and apologists. How can you carry water for that evil son of a bitch? Christ at this point he's directly responsible for putting America into the crapper and getting a lot of people killed for squat. This is your leader of choice?
Posted by: Nemesis on September 11, 2006 at 5:13 PM | PERMALINK

Good job (along with Gregory) of missing the point of my post. Try reading it again, for comprehension this time.

It's too bad that that Cheney won't be running in '08. He'd probably be a better Prez than any the alternatives.

Posted by: Brian on September 11, 2006 at 7:10 PM | PERMALINK

I posted the following words in another thread, but the words fit here too.

Bush is a horrible person.

*******************************************

"Bush did exactly what a narrow minded, thoughtless person would do.

9/11 was about Bush and the GOP; Not America.

It never has dawn on Bush that he's President of a nation. As far as Bush can preceive he's the president of a country club called GOP which just happens to be in a nation called America.

Anything else is just background noise to him.

The real question in November is how much damage the GOP did to itself as a national party.

November could signal the beginning of a long decline for the GOP in national politics. Just like in the 1960's.

BTW- Where IS Bin Laden?"

Posted by: James on September 11, 2006 at 7:12 PM | PERMALINK

November could signal the beginning of a long decline for the GOP in national politics. Just like in the 1960's.

BTW- Where IS Bin Laden?"
Posted by: James on September 11, 2006 at 7:12 PM | PERMALINK

You may wish to check your history, Jimmy. As for OBL - dead, probably.

Posted by: Brian on September 11, 2006 at 7:20 PM | PERMALINK

9/11 was not an exclusively Republican event. Everyone who died that day was not unanimously Republican. And today, those who remember 9/11 are not exclusively Republican.

Today's events are the latest example of Bush's intent on politicizing everything he touches.

The.worst.president.ever.

Posted by: kimster on September 11, 2006 at 8:10 PM | PERMALINK

Paul the Cynic: "Its next to impossible to have a reasoned discussion with you libs. As soon as your specious arguement is dismantled, you resort to calling names"

Yes, it's always a shock to right-wing extremist mental slaves like yourself that once you get outside the confines of Free Republic and Little Green Footballs and talk to people in the real world, that your robotic regurgitation of scripted Republican talking points is not regarded as "argument" and receives nothing but the derision and contempt it deserves, you pathetic dumbass.

Posted by: SecularAnimist on September 11, 2006 at 9:03 PM | PERMALINK

The 9/11 tragedy has left us wounded and and in pain. The least we can do is respect the memory of those who devoted their lives and for those who saved lives. Time to move on, and time to change those who rule!

Posted by: tina1 on September 11, 2006 at 9:07 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, it's always a shock to right-wing extremist mental slaves like yourself that once you get outside the confines of Free Republic and Little Green Footballs and talk to people in the real world, that your robotic regurgitation of scripted Republican talking points is not regarded as "argument" and receives nothing but the derision and contempt it deserves, you pathetic dumbass.
Posted by: SecularAnimist on September 11, 2006 at 9:03 PM | PERMALINK

Talk about pathetic dumbasses...

Posted by: Brian on September 11, 2006 at 9:19 PM | PERMALINK

The real pictures on Bushs wreath laying ceremony

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/9/11/23056/7770
[for some reason, links aren't working for me right now. cursed html]

Posted by: Mike on September 11, 2006 at 9:30 PM | PERMALINK

These so-called right-wingers posting on this board as posing as right wingers right? I mean people don't really believe this crap do they? I mean like Dickhead would be the best president in 08? For real? I am used to Al's crap but I don't recognize these other nuts so they surely have to be lefties posing as righties.

Posted by: bumblebee on September 11, 2006 at 10:00 PM | PERMALINK

mhr dumbass talks about "Clinton's puny responses to Bin Ladin's attacks"
it was clinton's launch of tens of cruise missiles into afghanistan in response to Cole that started all this. bin laden took the ones that didn't blow up, sold them to china, and had millions of dollars to fund 9/11 where before he was a penniless outcast. Again and again, the US and Israel over-react with disproportionate military response, again and again it comes back to bite them on the ass.

Posted by: george 3rd on September 11, 2006 at 10:30 PM | PERMALINK

"You know what would have been a good tribute Paul, capturing and or killing Osama Bin Laden."

Clinton had many opportunities to take OBL out, or capture him alive, and refused each. http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Clinton_let_bin_laden.htm

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/5/153637.shtml

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4540958/


"Are you still a bedwetter, Paulie? You certainly sound like one. You probably cry and whimper to Dumbya's picture, "please protect us, Daddy Dumbya, the evil terrists are coming to get us and I ascared!" You guys are pathetic. A bunch of low-life losers with razor blades hit the jackpot of their lives, and you want to throw away 240 years of our freedoms because you're too stupid to realize that rightards have no interest in stopping terrorists - they are only interested in stopping dissent. Asshole."

He's the President of the United States, and the Commander-in-Chief. He is responsible for doing what is necessary to protect this country and its people.

If being, "...only interested in stopping dissent" means you being more civil, or even completely silent, then, yes, you are correct.

Try this on, libs! What is YOUR plan to win the war against radical-Islam? You folks keep asking us to spell it out; how about a game of, "You First." Please, enlighten us.

I find it incredibly disturbing that the left keeps talking about their Freedom of Speech, and yet, they give no thought to the idea that the freedoms they love must be tempered by responsibility. You can walk up to someone and talk as much trash to them as you want, call them every name in the book, and insult them in any way you wish...that is freedom of speech. When that person knocks you on your ass...that is you being held responsible for your actions.

"You win against terrorists when you restore hope and promote economic parity and it helps to not have a history of meddling in a regions internal affairs to get your hands on their resources."

What, exactly, qualifies you as an expert in counter-terrorism, or global affairs? I will not claim to be an expert, for the record, but it seems to me that the way you stop terrorists is to kill them...all of them. You don't weed the garden by pulling up the rose bushes.

As for the resources of the world, what have you done to eliminate America's dependence on foreign oil? Do you have a little electric (not hybrid) car?

Economic parity? How, exactly? Don't you believe that you are responsible for your own destiny, religion aside? Do you think that the terrorists reacted out of poverty? http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i39/39b01001.htm

http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/itps/0806/ijpe/sageman.htm

"Do we know for sure that they weren't invited? Maybe they felt being with Bush at the time would be taken as showing solidarity with him or something."

It wouldn't surprise me if they had declined...look at what you people did to
Liebermann......

By the way, Tom? What freedoms have you PERSONALLY lost? Can you tell us? Are you concerned about Bush listening in on your private conversations? Do you call many terrorists overseas? You obviously haven't lost your First Amendment rights. What else? You have to take your shoes off in the airport? Do you think that is Bush's fault, or the fault of the terrorists? I....can't really......think of even one right that I have lost......nope, none of them.

"If only GWB felt the same need to unify the country!"

Do you libs want President Bush to "...unify the country?" I highly doubt it. However, being ever willing to be proved wrong, lay it on us....how could Bush unify the country? What would it take, in your estimation? What would make you, in particular, happy? And, is it the job of the leader of the free world to make you individually happy?

Posted by: John Nannery on September 12, 2006 at 1:52 AM | PERMALINK

John,

How about something as simple as inviting the senators and representatives for New York to the ceremony to show a united country. Not much to ask I think.

End of Thread

Posted by: mat1492 on September 12, 2006 at 9:57 AM | PERMALINK

CHENEY '08! WHOO-HOO!

Posted by: Brian on September 12, 2006 at 4:44 PM | PERMALINK


GOP '06: DON'T START THINKING NOW

Posted by: rnc on September 13, 2006 at 8:10 AM | PERMALINK




 

 

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