Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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September 24, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

SHUCK OF THE IRISH....As a USC fan, I'm always happy to see a beatdown of Notre Dame football, even if it comes from a Big Ten alumnus like Jon Chait. And today's column, which also calls out Rudy Ruettiger for being the annoying twit that he is, definitely made my corn flakes go down easy this morning. And yet, check this out:

Newspapers in the Midwest generally have dedicated beat writers for the hometown teams and one other program: Notre Dame....Notre Dame has its own network, NBC, whose college football coverage is limited solely to Notre Dame games, which it covers with all the journalistic tenacity of a church newsletter.

....Why does Notre Dame football hold such a prominent place in our culture? The answer lies in the power of myth....Myth is deeply embedded in Notre Dame football, the way it is in no other sports team.

....In this country you can make yourself into whatever you want, and sometimes all you have to do is convince everybody else that you are who you say you are. Pundit Michael Novak recently rejoiced that Notre Dame had become "America's team." Fans of other programs may bridle, but the appellation fits.

Hmmm. I could swear there was something else at work that helps explain Notre Dame's unique nationwide popularity. It's on the tip of my tongue. Starts with a "C," maybe. Perhaps Michael Novak could tell us?

(But hey nice comeback yesterday against Michigan's other team, guys. We'll see you after Thanksgiving in the Coliseum. We'll even mow the grass.)

Kevin Drum 12:48 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (99)

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Comments

Speaking of sports and Ireland, I see that the US got totally whooped in the Ryder Cup over in Ireland. Mickelson was an embarassment. I wonder if he'll ever recover from the 72nd hole of the US Open.

I note that one of the Irish papers classified the US team as Bush-loving Jesus freaks. I never thought about it that way, but it seems true. Being a Dem pro golfer is always news (Beem, Duval), and Lehman et al are outspoken evangelical-esque.

Posted by: Al's Mommy on September 24, 2006 at 12:56 PM | PERMALINK

Heh... my BIL is a Notre Dame alum (grad school) and Irish Catholic. Also, sad to say, a Republican, although not an icky knuckle-dragging type, being from New England & well-educated overall. He's a big brand loyalist, I guess-- likes Hondas and Macs and the Yankees and Dockers. And Andrew Sullivan, which IMO should embarrass him more than all the other affiliations except for political party.

Posted by: latts on September 24, 2006 at 12:57 PM | PERMALINK

Ah, the Golden Dome versus Tommy Trojan.

Have sat through SC's drubbing by ND, 51-O, and the greatest 2nd half in history when Anthony Davis exploded - Loved the juxtaposition of the first half score ND 24 and SC 6 - then the second half score of USC 49 and ND Nada.
I also saw Joe Montana's senior game against USC when he rallied his guys ala Quinn of yesterday.

Great rivalry.

But, Kevin, how many Subway Alums has USC produced?

Posted by: thethirdPaul on September 24, 2006 at 1:01 PM | PERMALINK

We'll see you after Thanksgiving in the Coliseum.

And OSU will see you in Jan. when we will finish running the table.

Go Bucks!

Posted by: Keith G on September 24, 2006 at 1:02 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin - Starts with a "C,"

I'm really getting sick of all this right-wing USC innuendo. If you want to call Notre Dame Communist, at least be a man and come right out with it.

Posted by: CapitalistImperialistPig on September 24, 2006 at 1:09 PM | PERMALINK

And OSU will see you in Jan. when we will finish running the table.

Go Bucks!

And if OSU were playing in any other conference in the country I would agree with you. But winning out in the Big TelEviN is almost as hard as hitting 400 in the majors.

Posted by: klyde on September 24, 2006 at 1:12 PM | PERMALINK

Paul: Subway Alums? Wuzzat?

However, George Lucas recently pledged $175 million to USC for a new film school. Beat that!

Posted by: Kevin Drum on September 24, 2006 at 1:19 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin,

Subway Alums are the many Catholics who never attended Notre Dame, but remain their most ardent fans.

By the way, when I saw the great second half rout of ND, I was sitting next to their section in the lower closed end. The Leprecaun was definitely not a'leaping by the 4th quarter.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on September 24, 2006 at 1:27 PM | PERMALINK

Klyde, I totally agree. Its an arduous task to say the least. Such an accomplishment will be worth the price of admission.

Posted by: Keith G on September 24, 2006 at 1:32 PM | PERMALINK

I'm always happy to see a beatdown of Notre Dame football

Not as happy as you are when you're cheering on the liberal media as it beats down our wonderful president, so he cannot effectively fight the Islamofascists and win the war on terror.

Posted by: Al on September 24, 2006 at 1:33 PM | PERMALINK

Starts with a "C," maybe. Perhaps Michael Novak could tell us?
Kevin Drum

Chewish? when in doubt, it's usually the chews.

Posted by: Nads on September 24, 2006 at 1:37 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin, stop doing the USC fan thing on the blog. It's embarrassing. It's like rooting for the Yankees. If the Yankees were corrupt on top of being ridiculously dominant.

Posted by: NL on September 24, 2006 at 1:43 PM | PERMALINK

NL,

What do you want him to write about? Perhaps that the A's magic number is down to two?

Mr Artery is about to sing "Happy Trails to You" as the Angels ride off to off-season land.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on September 24, 2006 at 1:49 PM | PERMALINK

Okay - Subway Alums have been defined.

I am still thrilled about my beloved Ducks kicking the ass of OU last week.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 24, 2006 at 2:01 PM | PERMALINK

Cal won, too ... GO BEARS!!!!

and we're going to use and discrad the trojan this year, too.

Posted by: Nads on September 24, 2006 at 2:07 PM | PERMALINK

Global,

That is still highly debatable in Soonerland - But, yes the Ducks did outplay them in various categories - However, even though the Sooners could not hold the Duckies before the onside kick, they still believe that there was a 12th Man wearing ref stripes and a Nike, er Ducks, helmet.
The biggest problem is that the Pac-10 has tried to implement Instant Replay on the cheap.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on September 24, 2006 at 2:08 PM | PERMALINK

Ya know, I have sat in Autzen and watched questionable calls go the other way. Yeah, it sucks when it happens to you, and I have drank beer and wailed about it in "The Duck Room" on highway 99 heading north out of Eugene and back home to Junction City. (Chriss Miller owns "The Duck Room") On balance there are going to be calls that go your way that shouldn't about as often as a bad call hurts you. As long as human beings call 'em, that is just how it is. There is a W in the ducks column and that isn't likely to change.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 24, 2006 at 2:16 PM | PERMALINK

Notre Dame doesn't have ballroom dancers.

Posted by: Bornadem on September 24, 2006 at 2:30 PM | PERMALINK

University of Notre Dame Ballroom Dance Club and Competition Team

http://www.nd.edu/~ballroom/

Posted by: DayDreamer on September 24, 2006 at 2:44 PM | PERMALINK

What terrible day to have been a Michigan State fan and a great one to be a Notre Dame fan.

Posted by: Yancey Ward on September 24, 2006 at 2:47 PM | PERMALINK

But hey nice comeback yesterday against Michigan's other team, guys. We'll see you after Thanksgiving in the Coliseum. We'll even mow the grass.

You must mean "we" in a very broad sense. Who cares, right? Except with the GWOT and it's various spinoffs, this sort of insane thinking is starting to grate: "We're fighting them over there so that we don't have to fight them here."

Posted by: Boronx on September 24, 2006 at 2:59 PM | PERMALINK

The Trojans seemed to have their hands full with the mighty Arizona Wildcats last night, huh?

Posted by: dp on September 24, 2006 at 3:07 PM | PERMALINK

I was an athlete all through school and into college. I used to get a little pissed at the beer-swilling fatasses who sat on the sidelines doing 12-ounce curls and embarassing themselves coming up after a game and saying "We really kicked their asses today" or "We'll get 'em next time." I was the one out there running up and down the pitch, they weren't.

Ditto the war on terra. About a year ago another shift supervisor and I got into a heated discussion at lunch about the mess in mesopotamia. She made the mistake of saying "we have to fight them there so we don't have to fight them here."

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 24, 2006 at 3:09 PM | PERMALINK

Global,

Are you saying home field advantage does not matter?

Posted by: thethirdPaul on September 24, 2006 at 3:12 PM | PERMALINK

So, when Chait writes for TNR, he is an idiot, becase he was so utterly wrong about Iraq, but when he writes a shit screed like today's in the LAT, home paper of your beloved Trojans, he is a genius.

Fuck Jon Chait, and fuck you too, Drum.

Posted by: SteveK on September 24, 2006 at 3:29 PM | PERMALINK

Oh, yeah.

USC's 60% graduation rate for the football program outpaces the NCAA average, but falls well short of ND's almost 80% rate.

And I'm pretty sure that ND's criminal conviction rate falls well short of USC's as well. Not to mention the fact that USC is looking at the dubious distinction of having a Heisman winner stripped of the award.

Fuck you again, Drum.

Posted by: SteveK on September 24, 2006 at 3:38 PM | PERMALINK

Perhaps David Broder was correct to some degree.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on September 24, 2006 at 3:41 PM | PERMALINK

There are lots of Catholics in this country. And Notre Dame is a Catholic school. So what?

Why not just spell Catholic instead of using a C? Is C the new scarlet letter? If not, what's with all the jokes about "Communists" and "Chews"?

Perhaps it's just a little anti-Catholic bigotry by the tolerant Left.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya on September 24, 2006 at 3:44 PM | PERMALINK

mhr:

You know, right up until you showed your hand with "Democrat party," I was going to say that was the best message you've ever written.

I'm not a sports fan, but my family's obsessed, and ND is a particular favorite.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 24, 2006 at 3:52 PM | PERMALINK

Inigo Montoya:

While there's still plenty of bigotry out there against groups identified as Catholic (think illegal immigration) -- I think anti-Catholic bigotry per se is a thing of the past in America.

Of course, the other kind of bigotry seems to be most prevalent in areas of the country not used to seeing many members of out-groups.

You know -- like GOP-voting red states?

Bo

Posted by: rmck1 on September 24, 2006 at 3:56 PM | PERMALINK

By late November, the Mighty Trojans offense will be firing on all cylinders, and Notre Lame will get the final nail in their 2006 coffin.

Fight On!

Posted by: banachspace on September 24, 2006 at 3:59 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, Bob.
I remember now that nobody mentioned the religion of either Chief Justice Roberts of Justice Alito during their confirmation hearings.

I kept wondering to myself why nobody would make a mention that there are now four conservative Catholics on the Court. Oh, wait. How do I know that statistic unless somebody mentioned it?

But yeah. I'm sure you're right. Trash heap of history and all.

/sarcasm

Posted by: Inigo Montoya on September 24, 2006 at 4:03 PM | PERMALINK

I'd be curious as to which college football team attracts the largest number of non-alumnus fans? Seems hard to come up with teams other than Notre Dame. A little like when the Dallas Cowboys billed themselves as "America's Team".

Posted by: pencarrow on September 24, 2006 at 4:10 PM | PERMALINK

SteveK:
Fuck Jon Chait, and fuck you too, Drum.
Fuck you again, Drum.

That SteveK is one angry leprechaun.

Posted by: Touchdown Jesus on September 24, 2006 at 4:17 PM | PERMALINK

Inigo Montoya:

Absolutely.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 24, 2006 at 4:25 PM | PERMALINK

So you agree people did make comments about the religious affiliation of Alito & Roberts?

Feel free to use google if you believe otherwise.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya on September 24, 2006 at 4:27 PM | PERMALINK

the religion of either Chief Justice Roberts of Justice Alito during their confirmation hearings.

Inigo, my, my, what a selective memory you have. The Catholic beliefs of Alito and Roberts were brought up because a year earlier, a high priest of that sky god cult was telling candidates what to believe and telling voters how to vote so that they would be allowed to partake in their ritual of symbolic cannibalism.

Posted by: Keith G on September 24, 2006 at 4:30 PM | PERMALINK

I had a roommate who was concerned about introducing her boyfriend to the very old fashioned Irish Catholic family. Turned out that when they found out he went to Notre Dame, and they would now have a legit family connection to the school, all was forgiven. Kind of funny, because he's not a real football fan, but every ND game on TV is somewhat of a command performance.

Posted by: NotThatMo on September 24, 2006 at 4:34 PM | PERMALINK

See, Bob.

Keith G has assured me that there is no anti-Catholic animus. He refers to the Pope as "that sky god cult" in order to prove the point. I'm sure that doesn't matter to you though. After all Keith G is on the right (meaning Left) side of the issues.

So all the "Communist" and "Chews" stuff above, in combination with Kevin Drum's Scarlet Letter taken together with Keith G's comment leads me to believe the trashheap of history isn't the only place where anti-Catholic feelings exist.

Get it?

Posted by: Inigo Montoya on September 24, 2006 at 4:35 PM | PERMALINK

"that sky god cult" --> "that sky god cult" "high priest"

Posted by: Inigo Montoya on September 24, 2006 at 4:37 PM | PERMALINK

Retins?

Hild Molesters?

Hromosome-deficient?

Loset Racists?

Posted by: Roger Ailes on September 24, 2006 at 4:38 PM | PERMALINK

Inigo, you supercilious twit. I am in no way representative of people who post here. What a sad boy you are to have to rely on the fallacy of hasty generalization to support your rather anemic non-point.

Get it?

Posted by: Keith G on September 24, 2006 at 4:41 PM | PERMALINK

"We'll even mow the grass" - Just so long as you don't use illegal tactics to "push" your quarterback across the line.

Posted by: lamonte on September 24, 2006 at 5:10 PM | PERMALINK

Ha! When I was a kid growing up, my old man had a church in Northern Indiana, only 30-some miles from South Bend. All you ever heard was Notre Dame. All the time.

Until I got out of the area, I thought it was pretty much a local thing -- support your local team. Even here in the DC area you see lots of people sporting Notre Dame shit. On their cars, shirts, everything.

Posted by: Tony Shifflett on September 24, 2006 at 5:17 PM | PERMALINK

Keith G,

I'm not extrapolating from your comment. Rather I'm saying it's further evidence of my initial point which was made before you made your anti-Catholic comments.

It's okay. You're in some fine company. I hear the KKK was against John Kennedy for the same reason.

And hey, I'm sure the anti-Jewish allusions made about Senator Allen in Virginia proves the Left doesn't have a general aversion to religion. Nah. That can't explain it.

P.S. Good word. Maybe if you use more big words I'll concede your point. Or not.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya on September 24, 2006 at 5:21 PM | PERMALINK

When I was a wee lad, growing up in the same state as Notre Dame, I became quite the fan of Notre Dame football. I appreciated the rich football history, the reasonably high academic standards, their penchant for quasi-miraculous comebacks, and their ability to beat those damn Michigan schools.

As a young adult, I realized that it's a chauvinistic Catholic institution with obnoxious fans, that buys its own national TV propaganda and has no meaningful ties to the city and state where the school happens to reside. So, naturally, I stopped caring about ND football.

Still, I enjoyed seeing them come from behind to beat Michigan State. Nicely done. And I wish them the best of luck against that country club twit school from LA.

Posted by: ajl on September 24, 2006 at 5:21 PM | PERMALINK

"...chauvinistic Catholic..."
"...TV propaganda..."

I'm sure those aren't anti-Catholic statements either.

See, Keith G? You might be more representative than you think.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya on September 24, 2006 at 5:24 PM | PERMALINK

You can be Catholic and still follow college football without having to root for Notre Dame. Ever heard of an institution called Boston College? (No miracles for the Eagles at N.C. State, though.)

Posted by: Vincent on September 24, 2006 at 5:34 PM | PERMALINK

Inigo, oh but you seem to be extrapolating, much. I am not anti-Catholic as such. I distain one set of myths (and the hierarchies that promote them) as much as I do any other. In fact, given my familys centuries old association with that church, I have a modicum of grudging respect for some of its history; more so than any other of the pretenders. Yet, nothing will come from nothing.

Posted by: Keith G on September 24, 2006 at 5:37 PM | PERMALINK

Why does anyone really care about the results of unpaid 'slaves' who make millions for some coaches?

The idea that you can take a student and make them spend a huge portion of their time WORKING at football and making all sorts of allowances for them and still call them a STUDENT is absurd.

It is interesting entertainment and it is a great way for the NFL to save money on its farm system.

But look at the rules. Players can't transfer when they want but coaches can come and go as they please. Coaches get big shoe contracts. Players get crap.

Why should anyone care?

Posted by: neil wilson on September 24, 2006 at 5:45 PM | PERMALINK

My biases aside, I don't see ajl's post as anti-catholic. ND's fans seem to be chauvinistic and most are certainly Catholic. Though they are not alone in the universe of college football fan on both counts. Brent Mussberger who called last night's game is unapologetic alum of ND who is never reluctant to join in the ND bandwagon,which to me certainly seems to be part of TV propaganda.

Posted by: Keith G on September 24, 2006 at 5:49 PM | PERMALINK

As I alluded: anti-religion.

And I'm sure saying ND's fans are chauvinistic has nothing whatsoever to do with your biases.

I am done with you.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya on September 24, 2006 at 5:57 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, my lord.

Posted by: Keith G on September 24, 2006 at 6:01 PM | PERMALINK

The fact that Notre Dame is Catholic does have an effect of many of their fans. But as someone else noted, Boston College is Catholic, too. Miami and Georgetown or Jesuit schools, but the don't get the same kind of following as ND. And you certainly don't see Methodists lining up behind Duke and Northwestern out of Wesleyan loyalty.

Notre Dame tradition is the biggest draw for most of there fans. A school like Iowa could win championships regularly over the next 20 years and not have the same fan base and tradition of a Michigan. The mystique is written in our earliest memories of fandom.

And for those of us who hate Notre Dame, it's because their mystique gives them way more attention than their play on the field deserves. Recruiting, TV, BCS rankings. Must be nice when they show only the merest success. Kind of like being a pretty good professional basketball player who's also white. But that's another subject.

Posted by: Swinty on September 24, 2006 at 6:11 PM | PERMALINK

I think most of you missed the point of Kevin's post. This wasn't about a university. Kevin is too smart, and education is too important to the Drum family for him to take pot shots at a great american institution of higher learning.

This was about football. Kevin was feeling pretty smug because USC happens to be on a roll lately, and it amused him to see a cheap-ass smackdown of a rival.

But remmember, Kevin. What goes around, comes around. Series record: Notre Dame, 42-31-5.

Oh, did I forget to mention? Fuck you, Drum.

Posted by: SteveK on September 24, 2006 at 6:15 PM | PERMALINK

Kind of like being a pretty good professional basketball player who's also white. But that's another subject.
Posted by: Swinty

ND ... the Kournikova of college football!!!

Posted by: Nads on September 24, 2006 at 6:16 PM | PERMALINK

Why was Clinton so angry and defensive with Chris Wallace?

Posted by: Havlicek stole the ball on September 24, 2006 at 6:43 PM | PERMALINK

To hell with you Kevin! ND gonna stop your pansy west coast squad in the winter! You're all a bunch of bums! Go have a twinkie and a burrito!

Posted by: Mick on September 24, 2006 at 6:44 PM | PERMALINK

As a BC alum who just got back from church: Fuck Notre Dame

Posted by: Eugene on September 24, 2006 at 6:53 PM | PERMALINK

Damn right, Eugene. Notre Dame took BC off their schedule because we kept beating them on their turf and on ours. Don't point out to SteveK though that the only currently ranked team that ND has beaten is Georgia Tech (who should fall out of it again soon). Nostalgia over results.

Posted by: Me2d on September 24, 2006 at 7:05 PM | PERMALINK

Of less interest than whether the grass is mowed is...how many ineligible paid professionals will USC be suiting up this time?

Posted by: chaboard on September 24, 2006 at 7:38 PM | PERMALINK

mhr:

just fyi. always always ignore rmck1. he just has a gigantic stick up his ass. it might be a baseball bat.

Posted by: layla on September 24, 2006 at 7:44 PM | PERMALINK

Inigo, if you can't hear a comment criticizing "Catholic chauvinism" without presuming it to be evidence of "anti-Catholic" bias, then you really need to get a fucking grip.

Words have meanings, Inigo. Try looking them up when you get confused. I'm no fan of atheist chauvinism, either, if that makes you feel better.

By the way, my comment about "TV propaganda" had to do with the fact the Notre Dame, alone among American Universities, has it's very own nationwide TV contract, complete with broadcasts that grovel at the feet of Touchdown Jesus. This has absolutely no connection to religion whatsoever. Imputing anti-Catholic bias to that comment is simply idiotic.

Posted by: ajl on September 24, 2006 at 7:59 PM | PERMALINK

Notre Dame played Hawaii twice in the 1990s, and both times snuck out of the island with last-second victories -- 48-42 in 1991, and 23-22 in 1997. Both Notre Dame and Purdue cancelled their respective 2001 games with Hawaii only six months prior to their season-ending scheduled dates.

In retrospect, it was probably a good move on their collective parts. Hawaii ended up winning their last nine games in 2001, including offensive shootouts with then-#9 Fresno State (38-34), Miami-Ohio (52-51, with Miami QB Ben Rothliesberger throwing for 5 TDs himself), Air Force (52-20), and then-undefeated and #8 Brigham Young (72-45). Hawaii 1,7100 yards and 21 touchdowns in the last three games alone!

Notre Dame was not all that good that year, and would probably have been demolished by what had become one of the hottest football teams in the country at the ned of the 2001 season. I don't care how good Hawaii was that year -- and believe me, they were very, very good. Storied programs like Notre Dame and USC gain nothing with victories over schools like Hawaii, but a loss to them would hardly do their programs' reputations any good.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on September 24, 2006 at 8:18 PM | PERMALINK

What I meant to say was, "Hawaii quarterback Nick Rolovich threw for almost 1,800 yards and 21 touchdowns in the last three games alone -- 550 yards and 7 TDs against Miami-Ohio, 565 yards and 6 TDs against Air Force, and 680 yards and 8 TDs against Brigham Young!"

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on September 24, 2006 at 8:24 PM | PERMALINK

I'm a native Hoosier, grew up in Indianapolis, and am a hard-core Purdue fan.

I'm also a pretty loyal Indianpolis Star reader, for those reasons.

Their Web site is www.indystar.com. Do me a favor. Click on it, and figure out who the Notre Dame football reporter is. or let me save you some time--there isn't one.

How is it possible that "America's team," one which Midwest newspapers dedicate a beat writer to, gets only minimal coverage from its home-state newspaper? I'll let you figure out that one, but I assure you the answer has a lot to do with ND's ongoing mythology.

And of course ND's popularity has nothing to do with the "C" word. Just watch it's famous "Candle" half-time advertisement: http://newsinfo.nd.edu/content.cfm?topicId=13062

All it's saying is ND grads are more "devout" than the rest of us.

Posted by: Alex Parker on September 24, 2006 at 8:24 PM | PERMALINK

support my wedding: "... All you can get at Support my wedding com."

Only if you agree to get married at halftime of the Notre Dame - USC game in December.

Kevin, is there any way you can block advertisers like these, and thus prevent them from crashing your online party?

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on September 24, 2006 at 8:27 PM | PERMALINK

Donald---looking forward to the Hawaii-Purdue game this year. Wish I could afford to go.

P.S.

SteveK, shut the fuck up.

Real Estate Agent, shut the fuck up.

support my wedding, shut the fuck up.

Posted by: Alex Parker on September 24, 2006 at 8:34 PM | PERMALINK

As an Ohio Catholic, I just have to say a few things:

Go Bucks. Troy Smith for Heisman.

And thank you, Spartans, for choking the game away and resurrecting the myth of St. Brady of South Bend. Now I have to hear even more 'Draft Quinn' ravings from my fellow Browns fans. Blech.

Posted by: Dustbin Of History on September 24, 2006 at 8:49 PM | PERMALINK

I feel it Dustbin...Pity MSU collapsed last night... another miracle for St. Brady of South Bend...we can only hope that Purdue can make things even for the Big 10 before ND enters its big showdowns with the Service Academies...

"Baseball is what we were, football is what we have become." Mary McGrory.

(Go Twins!)

Posted by: LeftyMN on September 24, 2006 at 9:13 PM | PERMALINK

Can anybody point me to a blog that discusses political issues rather than sports?

Thanks.

Posted by: non-paying customer on September 24, 2006 at 9:20 PM | PERMALINK

Amen to Dustin. If I were the type, I might be likely to feel that there was some deeper biases at work, the way the college football press sing the praises of Brady Quinn.

Tho' he is a hansome devil:

http://www.mostbeautifulman.com/athletes/bradyquinn/bio.shtml

Go Bucks!

Posted by: Keith G on September 24, 2006 at 9:34 PM | PERMALINK

non-paying:

Sorry, but ya get what ya pay for.

Posted by: Keith G on September 24, 2006 at 9:36 PM | PERMALINK

ajl,
So if you're no fan of chauvinism in all its forms why did you type the modifier Catholic? Remember, as you say, that words do have meanings.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya on September 24, 2006 at 10:09 PM | PERMALINK

In the recent "team-name PC craze" I decided that the "Fighting Irish" and the Washington "Bullets" were my all time favorites.

Posted by: jerry on September 24, 2006 at 10:09 PM | PERMALINK

I should have written, for the unenlightened:
Notre Dame has no ballroom dancers on their football team.
The only good thing about SC football is the horse.

Posted by: Bornadem on September 24, 2006 at 10:42 PM | PERMALINK

Just wanna note that my high school football team (Jesuit, in Maine) wore the ND colors when we were away, and the gold helmet everywhere. Our fight song was the ND fight song. Catholic High Schools all over the country promote ND (and also more local Catholic colleges--in my case BC).

Posted by: JayAckroyd on September 24, 2006 at 10:49 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe USC can find another mythical national championship in their archives because they certainly won't be winning the BCS championship this year. How many USC football players and/or their families are living rent free this year. UK bookmakers have the over-under at five.

Posted by: go Bruins on September 24, 2006 at 10:55 PM | PERMALINK

Back at the turn of the 20th Century, Notre Dame was indistinguishable from the dozens of other church-based institutions of higher learning that dotted the Midwestern prarie. But the Jesuits in charge of ND had ambitions of becoming nationally recognized, and saw football as a vehicle to achieve that stature. Early on, Notre Dame began scheduling top-rank national competition in order to raise their profile nationally.

The masterstroke was elevating Knute Rockne from assistant to head coach. Rockne cemented ND's national reputation by being as equally adept at showmanship as he was at coaching football. His greatest achievement was in keeping the Irish at the top of the competitive heap at a time when most smaller schools were finding it increasingly difficult to be competitive with the better-funded state schools.

Notre Dame also benefited greatly from scheduling a series against a small West Coast private school with a big-sounding name and equal ambitions of national stature. You may have heard of the University of Southern California.

Posted by: dr sardonicus on September 24, 2006 at 10:55 PM | PERMALINK

I was going to avoid this discussion with its whiff of the sulfur of bigotry, but someone needs to point out to the Dr. Sardonicuses of this world that Notre Dame is not a Jesuit institution.

I'm tempted to refer to the old Stanford Daily article which referred to the fact that the only institutions Stanford competed against in football (this was back when they still competed) that had comparable academic standards were Berkeley, UCLA, and Notre Dame.

Posted by: Gene O'Grady on September 24, 2006 at 11:46 PM | PERMALINK

Gene, I think I knew that, but somebody upthread referred to Notre Dame as a Jesuit institution, and working off of four hours sleep, I followed suit without checking facts first.

My family on my mother's side is virtually all Catholic, and the term "Jesuit" has no pejorative connotations with me.

Posted by: dr sardonicus on September 25, 2006 at 12:12 AM | PERMALINK

whiff of the sulfur of bigotry

Chavez is more popular than I immagined.

Posted by: Keith G on September 25, 2006 at 12:20 AM | PERMALINK

Donald from Hawaii,

Yes, June Jones has made quite an impression on college ball since he left Portland State in Portland, OR. I remember when he was only known for the run and shoot.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on September 25, 2006 at 12:54 AM | PERMALINK

Brent Mussberger who called last night's game is unapologetic alum of ND who is never reluctant to join in the ND bandwagon,which to me certainly seems to be part of TV propaganda.

Posted by: Keith G on September 24, 2006 at 5:49 PM

Don't hold Notre Dame responsible for Brent...he's a Northwestern guy. Or did you confuse him with Regis Philbin?

Posted by: Vincent on September 25, 2006 at 1:00 AM | PERMALINK

I think it's "cunnilingus," not Catholicism, and that's why it has to be kept secret.

Posted by: NotreFrickinDame?Nahh-BoomerSooner on September 25, 2006 at 1:53 AM | PERMALINK

my bad

Posted by: Keith G on September 25, 2006 at 2:05 AM | PERMALINK

Charlie Frye's starting to find his groove. Whew.

Troy Smith and Ted Ginn would still look awesome in brown & orange. A guy can dream...

Posted by: Dustbin Of History on September 25, 2006 at 5:43 AM | PERMALINK

The blithering village idiot [Al] speaks again.

Posted by: gandalf on September 25, 2006 at 9:26 AM | PERMALINK

i decided over the weekend that i'm officially a NotreDame hatre, for no good reason. other than i don't understand why the CFB punditocracy decided their team was worthy of a 2 ranking after a 9-3 season and a beat down in their bowl game last season.

i couldn't decide which hurt my heart more on Sat, that last interception Drew Staton threw (that thing never hit the ground, are you kidding me?) or the .08 left go game winning touchdown for NCState to beat BC.

ND is some kind of strange kool aide spewing phenomenon and i'm keeping my mouth shut.

Hokie Hi!

Posted by: e1 on September 25, 2006 at 10:20 AM | PERMALINK

Miami and Georgetown or Jesuit schools

Miami is a Jesuit school? did anyone tell the students?

Posted by: e1 on September 25, 2006 at 10:39 AM | PERMALINK

Come from behind? Tuned in midway through the third quarter and it looked more like a come from ahead loss.

Posted by: Exiled in New Jersey on September 25, 2006 at 10:55 AM | PERMALINK

for the USC haters. enjoy.


Hokie Hi!

Posted by: e1 on September 25, 2006 at 11:01 AM | PERMALINK

Inigo, just on the off chance you're reading this:

Chauvinism (n) -
2. biased devotion to any group, attitude, or cause. (dictionary.com)

The word is not a synonym for "sexist" unless it is modified by the word "male." If it is modified by the word "Catholic" then it refers to people who aggressively and clannishly promote Catholic institutions while denigrating non-Catholic (i.e. public) institutions. Such as, for example, the people who wish to dismantle the public school system and replace it with vouchers to parochial schools.

Now do you get it?

Posted by: ajl on September 25, 2006 at 11:48 AM | PERMALINK

ajl,

Please cite one example to back up your obfuscations.

Or, since every university agressively promotes its product are you saying that every university is chauvinistic? If so, then you've said nothing according to your definition.

It's embarassing to be caught with your pants down around your ankles but the best thing to do is pull them up to your waist instead of trying to get those people who are pointing and laughing to stop pointing and laughing.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya on September 25, 2006 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

Hey Me2D

Any truth to the rumor that BC players had a money line bet on NC St?

Posted by: Michael on September 25, 2006 at 2:05 PM | PERMALINK

"It's embarassing to be caught with your pants down around your ankles but the best thing to do is pull them up to your waist instead of trying to get those people who are pointing and laughing to stop pointing and laughing."

Well, I suppose you really ought to pull your pants up, then, since you've spent this entire thread demonstrating a victim complex and a lack of familiarity with the English language. I'm sure I'm not the only one laughing.

Since, to my knowledge, there have been no peer-reviewed studies produced on the obnoxiousness of Notre Dame, we'll have to settle for a few anecdotes. Here's a good place to start:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Notre+Dame+Miami+%22Catholics+vs.+convicts%22&btnG=Google+Search

Posted by: ajl on September 25, 2006 at 4:54 PM | PERMALINK

JUST TUNED IN, READ THIS FOR FUN. I HAVE BEEN A FAN (AND ALUM) OF MICHIGAN SINCE THE 50S. THANK GOODNESS THAT M DIDN'T CHOKE THIS TIME. GOOD LUCK TO O---STATE ON "RUNNING THE TABLE." FROM THE LEFT COAST.

Posted by: WOODY on September 25, 2006 at 6:51 PM | PERMALINK

As an atheist I feel quite comfortable in the knowledge that I've no part of a 'victim complex'. (That's an odd circumlocution, no?)

As somebody with reading skills I understand when anti-Catholic animus is being expressed.

And it's not just you who's guilty so enjoy yourself. Claim the animus. It will go down smoother if you acknowledge it.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya on September 25, 2006 at 7:42 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin,

Which school has won more NCAA championships than any other? Hint it's in LA and it's not Cal Tech, it's not Loyola, nope, it's not Pepperdine...oh, and it's not SC...hmmm...who could it be? (We won't get into Nobel laurates)

SC's football program is like having a great engine in a Yugo.

Posted by: Bruininmyblood on September 26, 2006 at 1:10 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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