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Tilting at Windmills

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September 30, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

IT'S NOT THE CRIME, IT'S THE....Our story so far: Republican congressman Mark Foley has resigned after a 16-year-old former House page complained that he had received repeated emails from Foley that he described as "sick sick sick sick sick....." You can see Foley's emails here, and the New York Times reports that there were more:

By Friday, other pages had come forward with more blatant instant messages. What ya wearing? Mr. Foley wrote to one, according to the network. Tshirt and shorts, the teenager responded. Love to slip them off of you, Mr. Foley replied.

This is bad enough. But Foley resigned very abruptly after the emails came to light, and it turns out this was probably because the Republican House leadership had known about Foley's behavior for some time and had simply been hoping nobody would find out about it. The Republican chairman of the House Page Board learned of Foley's behavior last year and House Majority leader John Boehner learned of it sometime this spring.

And how about Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert? As Brad DeLong points out, Boehner's story has gone from "we told Hastert and he said he was taking care of it" to "I don't remember if I talked to Hastert" to "I never told Hastert a thing about this and if you say otherwise it's a scurrilous lie." Hastert's office may have known about this, but not Hastert.

Sure. Of course. Hastert's office. And the lone Democrat on the House Page Board? He wasn't told about this. And Foley? As a member in good standing of the law-and-order party, he just went on his merry way after some no-doubt stern counseling from....someone.

So: what did Boehner and Hastert know, and when did they know it? Somehow it always comes back to that same question, doesn't it?

Kevin Drum 12:59 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (206)

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So: what did Boehner and Hastert know, and when did they know it?

Clearly, we need to torture them to get these answers!

Posted by: craigie on September 30, 2006 at 1:03 PM | PERMALINK

Check out Hastert's website from last night. Don't know if they've taken it down by now. Nice headlines, eh?

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hasterthomepagetr4.jpg

Posted by: Old Hat on September 30, 2006 at 1:03 PM | PERMALINK

So: what did Boehner and Hastert know, and when did they know it? Somehow it always comes back to that same question, doesn't it?

Even if Boehner and Hastert knew about it for a long time, why is that a problem? In fact it's a good thing. Boehner and Hastert probably notified the cops about Foley and was trying to arrange a sting of him for engaging in illegal behavior. That's how Boehner and Hastert were able to trick Foley into writing the offensive im message. But then the liberal media blew it by outing Foley too early. The liberal media made it a lot more difficult to prosecute Foley because they cared more about causing Republicans to lose the November elections.

How is what Foley did any worse than Clinton's sexual misconduct with Monica? It isn't, but the liberal media is being hypocritical by playing up Foley while playing down Clinton's sexual misconduct with Monica.

And the liberal media has it wrong again. One bad apple like Foley doesn't mean the rest of the Republicans are bad. This is just the typical liberal attempt at guilt by association. But liberals and their liberal media allies are going to fail in causing Republicans to lose Foley's district. Ann Coulter belongs to that district, and she'll run in place of Foley. She'll thoroughly trounce the Democratic challenger to win the Congressional seat.

Posted by: Al on September 30, 2006 at 1:10 PM | PERMALINK

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/il14_hastert/8_29_06_Internetsafety.html

Held at St. Charles North High School, Keeping Kids Safe in Cyberspace, included representatives of local police agencies and a panel of national Internet and law enforcement experts highlighting efforts to make the Internet safer for children. A private question-and-answer session followed, where parents addressed specific concerns and situations with police and web providers.

Recent news stories remind us that there are predators using the Internet to target children, Hastert said. And just as we warn our children about stranger danger when they are at the park or answering the door or telephone, we need to be aware of potential dangers in Cyberspace.

Posted by: Old Hat on September 30, 2006 at 1:11 PM | PERMALINK

This "bad apple" excuse is certainly wearing a bit thin by now. It looks to me like this administration is more of a "bad orchard."

Posted by: craigie on September 30, 2006 at 1:12 PM | PERMALINK

Al is right -- consentual adult acts are the same as between a congressman and a 16-year-old!

And it isn't as though there were any consequences to Clinton and Monica -- the liberal media ignored that! Yet it still caused 9/11!

And it just goes to show how vital it is to keep gays from marrying me and Al!

Posted by: Freedom Phucker on September 30, 2006 at 1:13 PM | PERMALINK

"Hi, Dennis, Mark Foley here. Say, could you recommend any good Greco-Roman holds. I'm trying to mentor a young fellow."........"Oooh, that one sounds delightful. Thanks, big guy. By the way, I have some great new ideas for toughening child internet porn laws.....Sounds great, we will do lunch."

Posted by: stupid git on September 30, 2006 at 1:14 PM | PERMALINK

Typical pathetic liberal infatuation with sex. When are you going to write about Mohammed's underage wives and male slaves?

Posted by: Jay on September 30, 2006 at 1:16 PM | PERMALINK

Do you like to watch gladiator movies?

Posted by: Rep. Foley (R-NAMBLA) on September 30, 2006 at 1:17 PM | PERMALINK

Typical pathetic liberal infatuation with sex. When are you going to write about Mohammed's underage wives and male slaves?

Ever been to a Turkish prison camp?

Posted by: Rep. Foley (R-NAMBLA) on September 30, 2006 at 1:18 PM | PERMALINK

that there is a congressman preying on underage pages is bad enough, but that the leadership knew and did nothing? if it had been a Democrat they'd have been indignant...Boehner is laughable as the party "leader", he's so up to his neck in sleaze it's unreal...and now this? Great--how many more pages have been violated since and by whom? I can't believe we pay for this level of government--the worst value money can buy

Posted by: doc on September 30, 2006 at 1:20 PM | PERMALINK

And Peter Graves can play Foley in the new comedy spoof "Congress".

Posted by: thethirdPaul on September 30, 2006 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

The John Boehner "Guiding Principles":

For the Next American Century:

We will promote the dignity and future of every individual by building a free society under a limited, accountable government that protects our liberty, security, and prosperity for a brighter American Dream.

what a sleazeball hypocrite--what part has he followed in his 6 months?

Posted by: doc on September 30, 2006 at 1:24 PM | PERMALINK

Ever seen a grown man naked?

Posted by: Rep. Foley (R-NAMBLA) on September 30, 2006 at 1:24 PM | PERMALINK

Aisha was just 9 years old when her marriage was consumated. I suppose all you liberal islam defenders don't have a problem with this?

What about all of your favorite mullahs and military dictators who have been keeping quiet on the subject. Ever hear Saddam try to distance himself from Mohammed?

Posted by: Jay on September 30, 2006 at 1:25 PM | PERMALINK

As John Boehner's office has said repeatedly, "John never spoke to Hastert directly and you can not prove he had a boner when he called him."

Posted by: stupid git on September 30, 2006 at 1:28 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe I'm having trouble following the sequence of events, but it isn't clear to me that the House Republican leaders knew until the past couple of days about anything but the three relatively innocuous emails that were reproduced in the first news stories. Those were the ones that were described by the page as "sick sick sick sick..." The page's instincts were apparently right on target, but there wasn't anything overtly sexual in the published emails.

As I understand it, the other pages didn't come forward with the emails they had received from Foley, which were overtly sexual, until after the first page's emails had been published.

It also seems clear that there was a general suspicion about Foley being "overly friendly" with the pages, but what more could have been done at that point than to interview him, warn him, and get his assurances that he would avoid even the appearance of impropriety? There was no actual evidence, as far as I can tell, that he was a real sexual predator until after the additional explicit emails were turned over following the initial story.

If I'm incorrect, I would love to be corrected, but so far I'm feeling a little uneasy reading that the House Republicans "had known about Foley's behavior for some time and had simply been hoping nobody would find out about it" in a context that implies they knew about the sexually explicit emails.

Posted by: Swift Loris on September 30, 2006 at 1:28 PM | PERMALINK

It looks like Scraps is a boy dog.

Posted by: Rep. Foley (R-NAMBLA) on September 30, 2006 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

"...what did Boehner and Hastert know?"

They knew the Pedophile Party was in deep shit.

Posted by: em on September 30, 2006 at 1:30 PM | PERMALINK

I'm sure professional fat fuck Denny Hastert will come clean - pronto!

Throw that obese pig into the dankest cell in the federal penal system.

Posted by: Joe Bob Briggs on September 30, 2006 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINK

Clicking on the link....

Reading the NYT article.. I quote

State Republican Party leaders said they would meet with officials from each of the counties in Mr. Foleys district to nominate someone to replace him. But an election official in Florida said Friday night that Mr. Foleys name would have to remain on the ballot. Any votes for him will be counted for his replacement, the official said.

What!!!!
Any votes for him will be counted for his replacement, the official said.

Florida Elections... Whatever is best for Republicans, i guess


Posted by: Matthew on September 30, 2006 at 1:32 PM | PERMALINK

Jay,

If you ever bothered to read the Old Testament, perhaps you'd be less inclined to take umbrage at the pecadillos of Mohammed and his crowd.

Its a kettle and pot scenario, at best. And there you are with lamp-black all over your face.

Posted by: zeke on September 30, 2006 at 1:33 PM | PERMALINK

You can all rest assured I've never actually acted on my darkest sexual urges. Instant messaging boys and asking them to masterbate is the furthest it's ever gone. Really. I swear.

Posted by: Rep. Foley (R-NAMBLA) on September 30, 2006 at 1:34 PM | PERMALINK

It's a good thing these guys are the party of moral values. I dread to think what bad shape we'd be in otherwise...

Posted by: craigie on September 30, 2006 at 1:39 PM | PERMALINK

Oh SURE: 24-7 pundit gab, billions of taxpayer dollars and impeaching a president for a consensual affair between adults wasn't obsessing about sex in any way, shape or form...and I can't even count all the times per day, 10 YEARS LATER, when some troll brings up Clinton on the various blogs I read.

On the other hand, a U.S. Congressman soliciting sexual conversation, and maybe more, with a 16-year-old page is no big deal, as long as he's a Republican. Or would you still call this "liberal infatuation with sex" if the congressman happened to be a Democrat? I would venture to say - no.

Democrat or Republican, what this man did constituted an awful betrayal of trust of his office, and covering his actions up for political purposes is just as bad. I would say the same thing if Foley happened to be a Democrat.

Past bad deeds of Democrats and the wives of ancient historical figures really have nothing to do with the issue.

Posted by: Mary Eliz on September 30, 2006 at 1:40 PM | PERMALINK

Ah, and Charlie brings out the classic Conservative defence: "Other people do bad stuff too!"

Party of Personal Responsibility, your table is ready.

Posted by: craigie on September 30, 2006 at 1:42 PM | PERMALINK

NAMBLA = IOKIYAR

Posted by: Rep. Foley (R-NAMBLA) on September 30, 2006 at 1:43 PM | PERMALINK

How ironic that Foley could be convicted under the aegis of the very act he sponsored. Hoisted by his own petard, er member, er emotions that is.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on September 30, 2006 at 1:43 PM | PERMALINK

Is it just me, or is the quality of Al's trollishness going downhill consistently?

I check in here about every two months or so, so I get to see the 'time lapse' view of Al's comments. IMHO, he's gone from semi-lucid to just plain tragic.

Of course, it could also be the material he has to work with. Kind of tough to spin a coverup of a fellow congressman who's soliciting minors online, after all.

Still, it's worrisome. We have to look out for our trolls; they keep things interesting. It's a bad thing when one of them descends into what apperas to be a drug-induced state.

Posted by: Jonathan on September 30, 2006 at 1:47 PM | PERMALINK

With apologies to Robert Bolt.

As Bill O'Reilly said to Foley, "Do you not know that a man can sell his soul for women and falafels and profit not, but for boys?

Posted by: thethirdPaul on September 30, 2006 at 1:49 PM | PERMALINK

So far Charlie you've only provided evidence of one - Mark Foley (R). And do you really want the exhaustive list of Republican luminaries who've been convicted of sex-crimes? Starting with the guy the Republicans put up last time against Lieberman in CT? The truth is, on sex, as with every other kind of corruption and sleaze, your Republican brethren are the ones with the logs in their eyes.

Posted by: rdw on September 30, 2006 at 1:49 PM | PERMALINK

What's the prob? Hasterd is a former wrestler and the Majority Leader; how does one pronounce his name again?

Posted by: Hedley Lamarr on September 30, 2006 at 1:49 PM | PERMALINK

Jay, of course, was always thoroughly incoherent. I'm not even sure how he musters the intellectual energy to pay his share of his parents' internet bill. Maybe they just foot it to keep him from coming up from the basement when company's visiting.

Al, however, was at least somewhat cogent.

Posted by: Jonathan on September 30, 2006 at 1:50 PM | PERMALINK

the entirety of Charlie's list has already been put to shame by neil bush.

Posted by: Nads on September 30, 2006 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINK

Typical pathetic liberal infatuation with sex

Said the jackass who can't get enough of Monica's blue dress and Bills penis. Really rich. And now conveniently changing the subject when they have a more egregious sin than consensual actions between adults. Fucking pathetic.

And Craigie? You are on fire today.

Posted by: Color me Blue on September 30, 2006 at 1:53 PM | PERMALINK

Republicans are very sick people. According to them, as long as you a Republican is OK, even sex with a 16 year old boy. And no Al - you sick fuck - Bill and Monica is not the same as Foley and the 16 year old page.

The GOP is full of Bigoted, Racist, Corrupt, Greedy, Ignorant, Morally Bankrupt, Very Sick people.

Posted by: cojonudo on September 30, 2006 at 1:56 PM | PERMALINK

The Mafia is no longer the biggest criminal outfit in the country. The GOP caucus has replaced them.

Posted by: trifecta on September 30, 2006 at 2:03 PM | PERMALINK

"Aisha was just 9 years old when her marriage was consumated. I suppose all you liberal islam defenders don't have a problem with this?"

No, Jay, I do have a problem with it. Accordingly, I think Mohammad should resign from Congress too.

Posted by: Joel on September 30, 2006 at 2:03 PM | PERMALINK

The real scandal is the fact that the house leadership knew about these charges for 11 months and failed to adequately address them. In fact they actively covered them up. The chair of the relevant committee Rep. John Shimkus (R-Coverup) admitted last night he didn't tell the Democratic committee member. Instead he said he talked to Foley, and Foley denied any wrong doing. He took Foley at his word, but told him not to have any further contact with the boy. In short he suspected Foley was a pedophile but decided to cover it up--for the good of the party. Soooo, for 11 months a pedophile was allowed to roam the halls of congress preying on other pages.

Pray for us lord, the kool-aid drinkers don't see any problem with what the house committee chair and the leaders with whom he consulted did.

In a more civilized society Rep. John Shimkus would have committed seppuku by now. Foley would have as well. Hastert would also be considering his betrayal of the trust of the young people with whom he is charged.

Posted by: Ron Byers on September 30, 2006 at 2:07 PM | PERMALINK

Um, Mohammed does not hold a seat in the US congress (of course, neither does Foley now) but if he die, I would want him to resign as well, capice?

Anyone know if Foley's congressinal pension will be revoked?

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 2:08 PM | PERMALINK

Republican morality: It is only wrond if you get caught. And I loved the appology, too - no admission of wrongdoing, just sorry he got caught.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 2:10 PM | PERMALINK

I would point out one other difference between Clinton/Lewinsky and Foley/16yr old page(s). Monica chased Clinton and he was receptive but not the initiator, something poor Ken Starr kept trying to get Monica to change her story over, Foley was the one doing the chasing of the teenage boys. So please, trolletariat, PLEASE keep trying to compare this to Clinton, because the more you do the more the clear ethical differences between a consensual affair between adults and a older man with a young teenager will be seen by average
Americans, especially when you add the fact that Clinton was having a heterosexual affair and it was the GOPer that was trying to have a gay affair with a 16 year old boy. Oh, please pretty please keep bringing up Clinton in this, you only make your side look that much worse and make what Clinton did look so much less offensive. Keep rehabilitating the reputation of Clinton like that and you will be bounced out of the trolletariat for sure by your GOP group thinking comrades.

Posted by: Scotian on September 30, 2006 at 2:15 PM | PERMALINK

In a way, isn't it worse if Hastert's office knew but he didn't? He's the Speaker of the House! This is one of his members who has engaged in cybersex with a teenager! If his staff would be willing to keep this from him, what does that say about his leadership? I mean, that's about as undermined as authority can be.

(Of course I know that no reasonable person thinks he runs the House Republican Caucus. But he's still the nominal leader.)

Posted by: jhupp on September 30, 2006 at 2:16 PM | PERMALINK

As I said on the other thread (and above), run EVERY (regardless of party affiliation) homosexal child molester and anyone who covered it up out of the Capitol, craigie.

So, naturally, you provide a list consisting solely of Democrats. I love the smell of bipartisanship in the morning!

Posted by: craigie on September 30, 2006 at 2:17 PM | PERMALINK

V A L U E S parte'
* Republican teacher and former city councilman John Collins pleaded guilty to sexually molesting 13 and 14 year old girls.* Republican campaign worker Mark Seidensticker is a convicted child molester.* Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.* Republican Mayor John Gosek was arrested on charges of soliciting sex from two 15-year old girls.* Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.* Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.* Republican Committeeman John R. Curtain was charged with molesting a teenage boy and unlawful sexual contact with a minor.* Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.* Republican zoning supervisor, Boy Scout leader and Lutheran church president Dennis L. Rader pleaded guilty to performing a sexual act on an 11-year old girl he murdered.* Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.* Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.* Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.* Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.* Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.* Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer was charged with molesting his 9-year old step-daughter after including her in an anti-Gore television commercial.* Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.* Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.* Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.* Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.* Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.* Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.* Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.* Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.*

Posted by: mestizo on September 30, 2006 at 2:18 PM | PERMALINK

And Craigie? You are on fire today.

I am but a humble servant of the Lord.

Ok, not really.

Posted by: craigie on September 30, 2006 at 2:20 PM | PERMALINK

Is Susan Smith's stepdad on that list, mestizo? We all know how well adjusted she turned out. No after effects of being molested at all.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 2:21 PM | PERMALINK

Looks like Al and Foley are both on the same page! hey-o!

There is nothing . . . NOTHING that these scumbag republicans will not excuse. Hypocritical monsters, the lot of them.

Posted by: Brooklynite on September 30, 2006 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

John Walsh lives in Foley's (former) district. They worked very hard on bringing Jessica's Law to fruition. Perhaps Walsh could be persuaded to run for the seat, of course, he would have to be a write-in. Walsh would be slam dunk for the seat. However, for our sake, please do not accept, John.

How emotions out of control can lay low the good works of man.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on September 30, 2006 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

Psst. AL.
Now's not the time to say 'it's not so bad. And Democrats do it to.'
Now's the time to say, 'He's a sexual predator and has no place in the Republican Party.'
Come on, you can do it. It's called morality.
I like the 'sting' gambit, though. It shows they weren't being slime, they were being clever--especially breaking it a month before the election.

Posted by: pbg on September 30, 2006 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

If we don't molest interns over there, we'll have to do it, um, at their house. Or something.

Posted by: craigie on September 30, 2006 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

Boys and girls, as Kevin points out as bad as the crime was the cover-up is infinitly worse. It tells volumes about the piss poor judgement of the house Republican leadership. If they had simply reported him to the FBI and asked his resignation when this all came to light 11 months ago, the scandal wouldn't have been much. Just another pathetic middle aged pedophile got caught. Hastert and the rest would look like pillars of the community.

As it is, well trolls, instead of being mad at Democrats or trying to make excuses, you really ought to be unloading on Denny Hastert and his team.

Posted by: Ron Byers on September 30, 2006 at 2:25 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe this is a poor choice of words in light of the scandal, but today the Publican party stands naked before us, their red-white-and-blue sweater a ball of yarn at their feet of clay.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 2:28 PM | PERMALINK

cragie,

I believe that should read "If we don't molest them in the Senate, we will have to in the House." Or vice versa.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on September 30, 2006 at 2:29 PM | PERMALINK

To state the obvious, Barney Frank and Gary Condit did not get involved with minors, hence no child molestation. I don't believe Brock Adams did either. And in these cases there was no party leadership coverup.

But why let facts get in the way of a nice diversion?

Posted by: hopeless pedant on September 30, 2006 at 2:31 PM | PERMALINK

I am but a humble servant of the Lord.

You're goin' to California for that remark.

Ladies and gentlemen, some of you have followed with half-interest, others witht complete uninterest, the personal saga of my political conversations with my Republican mother, who resides in Hastert's district. I am pleased to report that last night, my 100th iteration of the question, "Ma, is this enough to get you to stop voting for Denny Hastert?" finally received this response:

"YES."

Posted by: shortstop on September 30, 2006 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINK

Here is the text of Foley's non-appology:

"I thank the people of Florida's 16th Congressional District for giving me the opportunity to serve them for the last 12 years; it has been an honor. I am deeply sorry and I apologize for letting down my family and the people of Florida I have had the privilege to represent."

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINK

I wouldn't say that's a non-apology; I'd say that's an apology for the Crime That Dare Not Speak Its Name. Any good reporter would ask him what he's apologizing for...oh, sorry, I started coughing at "good reporter" and can't stop...

Posted by: shortstop on September 30, 2006 at 2:36 PM | PERMALINK

Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.*

heh.

Posted by: mestizo on September 30, 2006 at 2:37 PM | PERMALINK

Touche, mon amie, touche. (and this time i got ythe gender right!)

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 2:39 PM | PERMALINK

"YES."

Free at last, free at last, thank dog almighty, we are free at last!

Posted by: craigie on September 30, 2006 at 2:41 PM | PERMALINK

Of course, the timing of the release of this story so it can blow the Republican party off the ballot (the DeLay Gambit) is a pure coincidence. If you can't win the election, wreck it.

When it was Torricelli blown off the ballot, the Democratic position on illegal late ballot changes was a lot different.

Posted by: rnc on September 30, 2006 at 2:41 PM | PERMALINK

Ah yes, the Red, White and Blue Light District of politics

Posted by: stupid git on September 30, 2006 at 2:41 PM | PERMALINK

I had a dream, craigie, I had a dream.

Posted by: shortstop on September 30, 2006 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

The person who said craigie is on fire was correct; however, we need to equally commend the humor stylings of stupid git and thethirdpaul!

Posted by: shortstop on September 30, 2006 at 2:45 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, that fair lady from Chicago land is a far, far better person.

Posted by: thirdturdfromthesun on September 30, 2006 at 2:49 PM | PERMALINK

Congratulations, shortstop!

Now, if you can just get your mother to convince six friends to do the same. A movement begins one conversion at a time ;-)

Posted by: bigcat on September 30, 2006 at 2:49 PM | PERMALINK

Go lick your wounds, rnc - this round goes to the Dems. HWine all you want, throw flags on the play, go to the instant replay. But there is no way to spin your way out of this one - maybe al that spinning is what unraveled the sweater, now that I think about it.

And I second the endorsement of the comic stylings of paul-3 and Stupid Git (Not!) - they are definitely holding their own.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 2:49 PM | PERMALINK

rnc

The Republicans have nobody to blame but themselves. Had they confronted Foley last year they could have easily replaced him on the ballot.

Stupidity, huberis and arrogance all compounded by incompetence and immorality. The Republicans are getting what they deserve in this case.

Posted by: Ron Byers on September 30, 2006 at 3:26 PM | PERMALINK

Or, to paraphrase the Decider - Their come-uppance is coming.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 3:30 PM | PERMALINK
By Friday, other pages had come forward with more blatant instant messages. What ya wearing? Mr. Foley wrote to one, according to the network. Tshirt and shorts, the teenager responded. Love to slip them off of you, Mr. Foley replied.


Well, this guy doesn't need any sodium pentathol, hes obviously stupid enough with out it. And why am I reminded now of the Bush Sr. Administration?
Oh Yeh, Sex scandals and gay prosititutes.

BTW you guys still think Gannon will ever release that article he wrote from his 4 hour interview with Tony Blair?

Posted by: SICK SICK SICK on September 30, 2006 at 3:40 PM | PERMALINK

Even if Boehner and Hastert knew about it for a long time, why is that a problem? In fact it's a good thing. Boehner and Hastert probably notified the cops about Foley and was trying to arrange a sting of him for engaging in illegal behavior. That's how Boehner and Hastert were able to trick Foley into writing the offensive im message. But then the liberal media blew it by outing Foley too early. The liberal media made it a lot more difficult to prosecute Foley because they cared more about causing Republicans to lose the November elections.


Only AL would find a way to relate pedophilia to consensual sex between two adults. So AL you are saying that hastert called the cops and that you think that they should have allowed Foley to molest this kid and then only talk about it after the elections?

Your sick AL, Be gone.

Posted by: SICKO AL Kevins sockpuppet on September 30, 2006 at 3:43 PM | PERMALINK

What is it with (male) Republican politicians and underage boys? My ex-congressman, Ed Shrock, resigned under very similar circumstances. I don't get it. I mean, if you're going to succumb to the temptations that alledgedly come with political power, why not go for a couple of voluptuous, 21 year old (female) twins, or something, you know, legal and quasi-normal, if not socially acceptable? Kennedy: there was a guy who knew how to abuse his power.

Posted by: Del Capslock on September 30, 2006 at 3:49 PM | PERMALINK

Notice the parallel to 9/11?: numerous reports that go all the way up to the top, where they are sat on until the whole thing explodes beneath them?

Bin Laden's about to attack? Boys are being molested? And this relates to tax cuts, how, exactly?

Posted by: Memekiller on September 30, 2006 at 3:51 PM | PERMALINK

There's a wider pattern of abusiveness and denial here similar to the corruption in the Catholic Church where this kind of character is attracted to a social conservative power structure that lacks any accountability in it's core interest of absolute power and control.

Check out this excellent comment on an eariler thread,

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_09/009589.php#970910

Posted by: cld on September 30, 2006 at 3:56 PM | PERMALINK

/So: what did Boehner and Hastert know, and when did they know it?/
No, no Kevin....you obviously aren't a member of the Republican party, AKA Truth, soi-disant Justice and the Blue State American Way....the way they say this is:
/What didn't they know, and when didn't they know it/.

MOre seriously: having grown up amidst (but not of) the glowing righteousness of Southern evangelical Christianity, I observed again and again: the louder they proclaim their righteousness, the more snakes in the closet.

Posted by: Stewart Dean on September 30, 2006 at 4:03 PM | PERMALINK

Ann Coulter lives in Foley's district and will replace him on the ballot? Wow, that's big news! Thanks, Al.

And what a brilliant strategy - Ms. Coulter may be the one person in the Republican party who can make Foley look moral in comparison.

Oh wait, it's too late for that, isn't it.

Posted by: Fel on September 30, 2006 at 4:03 PM | PERMALINK

From Coach Denny Hastert's biography:

"In addition to [high school] teaching, he coached football and wrestling."

"Whenever he can find free time, Hastert enjoys attending wrestling meets."

If, as a former coach and teacher, Hastert doesn't take the grooming and molestation of minors extremely seriously, maybe someone ought to ask him why.

Maybe someone ought to ask his former team members and students. Just sayin'.

Posted by: agum on September 30, 2006 at 4:05 PM | PERMALINK

Hopefully some of these e-mails will detail Foley's adventures in the Dominican Republic with his good friend Rush Limbaugh.

Posted by: Speed on September 30, 2006 at 4:08 PM | PERMALINK

Hastert, in a Friday press conferencesaid that by resigning, Foley "has done the right thing." He then went on to add that "none of us are very happy" about the scandal.

Well Duh! If they could have kept a lid on this until after the election, he could have resigned and had a Publican replacement appointed by Jeb, if I recall Florida statute correctly.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 4:09 PM | PERMALINK

I'm not sure which district I live in anymore. The crystal meth makes everything so hazy.

Posted by: Ann Coulter on September 30, 2006 at 4:10 PM | PERMALINK

And Agum makes a very sharp point. Some enterprising journalist needs to be pouring over high-school yearbooks and contacting former wrestlers and football players and asking them about this.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 4:13 PM | PERMALINK

Ann Coulter,

That wasn't meth that a dog tranquilizer!


http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/1960/ugliestdogue9.jpg


(actual dog, actually alive, but, alas, now dead, but in death now exemplary as the Republican soul finds its true face)

Posted by: cld on September 30, 2006 at 4:21 PM | PERMALINK

That "was" a dog tranquilizer.

Posted by: cld on September 30, 2006 at 4:22 PM | PERMALINK

And I always pictured Serberus as a three-headed doberman...

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 4:30 PM | PERMALINK

GOP = Gross Old Pedophiles

http://tinyurl.com/hrelw


'

Posted by: Jesus on September 30, 2006 at 4:33 PM | PERMALINK

Go lick your wounds, rnc - this round goes to the Dems.

A Democrat simply wouldn't have resigned. William Jefferson is still going strong, and go look up Gerry Studds.

Posted by: rnc on September 30, 2006 at 4:37 PM | PERMALINK

Swift Loris: I'm feeling a little uneasy reading that the House Republicans "had known about Foley's behavior for some time and had simply been hoping nobody would find out about it" in a context that implies they knew about the sexually explicit emails.

When President Clinton's defenders say he was impeached because he had consensual oral sex, his detractors say, no, he was impeached because he lied about having had sex.

It's clear that Hastert and Boehner knew about at least the non-sexually explicit emails for nearly a year. Whether Hastert's actions during that time were sufficient should be determined by the public. Now that he is lying about having known, voters should also be informed of that in order to decide whether or not they condone his duplicitous response to the public revelation of Foley's misbehavior.

Posted by: Laser on September 30, 2006 at 4:45 PM | PERMALINK

I wouldn't vote for either of them, and I certainly do not taint myself by defending child molesters. The guy was the guy heading up the efforts to stop internet predation of children, and in his off hours engaged in the internet predation of children!!!

Defending these indefensible actions is craven, corrupt and petulant. And those are the nicest adjectives I can come up with. Jesus. I need a shower.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 4:46 PM | PERMALINK

This reminds me of when that paragon of morality, Henry Hyde of Illinois, protected his junior from the same state (Crane?) who was fooling around with a teen age girl. He continued to speak of for the man even after he was caught.

Posted by: little ole jim from red country on September 30, 2006 at 4:50 PM | PERMALINK

Foley fits the profile of so many of Karl Rove's political opponents. The difference is that Foley really is that kind of guy, not simply a victim of Rovian smear politics.

Posted by: little ole jim from red country on September 30, 2006 at 4:54 PM | PERMALINK

Does anybody know if Dobson, Falwell, et. al., have called for Hastert and Boehner's head? Certainly the old reliable moral compass will lead them to do so, and soon.

Posted by: little ole jim from red country on September 30, 2006 at 4:59 PM | PERMALINK

Ann Coulter can't run for Foleys seat. She has trouble knowing what district to cast her ballot.

Posted by: RBonmon on September 30, 2006 at 5:09 PM | PERMALINK

Don't worry Globial Citizen. rnc, Al and Thomas1 are more than happy to taint themselves defending child molestors.

Posted by: Ron Byers on September 30, 2006 at 5:13 PM | PERMALINK

Child molesting seems to be a motivating element of the Republican character, those listed at the above referenced website are just the few who've been caught.

Let's read it again!

Edison Misla Aldarondo: Republican legislator. Sentenced to 13 years in prison for molestation of his daughter & her friend for 8 year period starting when they were 9 years old.

Randal David Ankeney: Republican activist. Arrested on suspicion of sexual assault on a child with force. Faces 6 charges related to getting a 13 year old girl stoned, then having sex with her.

Merrill Robert Barter: Republican County Commissioner. Pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact & assault on a teenage boy.

Robert Bauman: Republican congressman & anti-gay activist. Charged with having sex with a 16 year old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

Louis Beres: Chairman of the Christian Coalition of Oregon. 3 of his family members accuse him of molesting them when they were pre-teens.

Howard L. Brooks: Republican legislative aide & advisor to a California assemblyman. Charged with molesting a 12 year old boy & possession of child porn.

Andrew Buhr: Republican politician, former committeeman for Hadley Township Missouri, former Tom Delay aide. Charged with 2 counts of first degree sodomy with a 13 year old boy.

John Allen Burt: Republican anti-abortion activist. Convicted of sexually molesting a 15 year old girl at the home for troubled girls that he ran.

Keola Childs: Republican county councilman. Pleaded guilty to sexual assault in the first degree for molesting a male child.

Kevin Coan: Republican St.Louis Election Board official. Arrested & charged with trying to buy sex from a 14 year old girl whom he met on internet.

Dan Crane: Republican congressman. Married, father of 6, recieved a "100% Morality Rating" from Christian Voice. Had sex with a minor working as a congressional page. On July 20th, the House voted for censure of Crane, the 1st time that censure had been imposed for sexual misconduct.

Richard A. Dasen Sr. : Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups. Convicted of sexual abuse of children, promotion of prostitution & several counts of soliciatation. Sentenced to 126 years in prison. Investigators estimate he spent up to $ 5 million on prostitutes.

Peter Dibble: Republican legislator. Pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13 year old girl.

Richard A. Delgaudio: Republican fundraiser & Bush pioneer. Found guilty of child porn charges.

Nicholas Elizondo: Director of the Young Republican Federation. Molested his 6 year old daughter & sentenced to 6 years in prison.

Larry Dale Floyd: Republican Constable in Denton County, Texas, Precinct 2. Arrested for allegedly crossing state lines to have sex with an 8 year old child & charged with 7 related offences.

Jack W. Gardner: Republican councilman. Convicted of molesting a 13 year old girl, when the Republican party, knowing of these crimes, put him on the ballot.

Richard Gardner: Nevade state Representative. Admitted to molesting his 2 daughters.

Matthew Glavin: President & CEO of Southeastern Legal Foundation, big player in Clinton impeachment. Arrested multiple times for public indecency, one time fondling the crotch of the officer who was arresting him.

Mark A. Grethen: Republican activist. Convicted of 6 counts of sex crimes involving children.

Mark Harris: Republican city councilman who is described as a "chirch goer". Convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11 year old girl & sentenced to 12 years in prison.

Howard Scott Heldreth: Anti-abortion activist who gained famed during the Shiavo media-circus. Convicted of 2 charges of raping a child in 2002.

Mike Hintz: First Assembly of God youth pastor, introduced by Bush on the campaign trail & promoted his policies. 2 months later, this married father of 4 turned himself into police, charged with sexual exploitation of a child.

Paul Ingram: Republican party leader of Turston County, Washington. Pleaded guilty to 6 counts of raping his daughters & served 14 years in federal prison.

Jon Matthews: Republican talk show host in Houston. Indicted for indecency with a child, including exposing his genitals to a girl under age 17.

Nicholas Morency: Republican anti-abortion activist. Pleaded guilty to possessing child porn on his computer & offering a bounty to anyone who murders am abortion doctor.

Jeffery Patti: Republican Committee Chairman. Arrested for distributing what experts call " some of the most offensive material in the child porn world."-a video clip of a 5 year old girl being raped.

Mark Pazuhanich: Republican judge. Pleaded no contest to fondling a 10 year old girl & sentenced to 10 years probation.

Beverly Russell: County Chairman of Christian Coalition. Sexually molested his step-daughter, Susan Smith, who later drowned her 2 children.

Larry Jack Schwarz: Republican parole board officer & former Colorado state representative. Fired after child porn was found in his possession.

Tom Shortridge: Republican campaign consultant. Sentenced to 3 years probation for taking nude pictures of a 15 year old girl.

David Swartz: Republican County Commissioner. Pleaded guilty to molesting 2 girls under the age of 11, sentenced to 8 years in prison.

Robin Vanerwall: Republican strategist & Citadel Military College grad, Director of Faith and Family Alliance, member of Ralph Reed's inner circlle who funneled money to/from Jack Abromoff to Reed. Convicted in Virginia on 5 counts of solicting sex from boys & girls over the internet.

Keith Westmoreland: Tennessee State Representative. Arrested on 7 felony counts of lewd & lascivious exhibition to minors under 16 years old.

Stephen White: Republican preacher. Arrested after allegedly offering $ 20 to a 14 year old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.

Posted by: cld on September 30, 2006 at 5:13 PM | PERMALINK

One bad apple like Foley doesn't mean the rest of the Republicans are bad.
(self?-)parody Al, bad apples don't fall far from the tree.

Posted by: Bill Arnold on September 30, 2006 at 5:13 PM | PERMALINK

These are the people who so enjoy 'alternative' interogation techniques.

Posted by: cld on September 30, 2006 at 5:14 PM | PERMALINK

I find it personally disappointing that any list of moral congressional outrages would omit the behavior of my former representative from Mississippi, Jon Hinson, a Reagan republican if there ever was one, put in office with the overwhelming support from white evangelicals, caught performing fellatio in a mens restroom in ye ole capitol building on an African American janitor.

Gee, what does it take to make a moral-hypocrite list? Do you absolutely have to be a democrat?

Posted by: little ole jim from red country on September 30, 2006 at 5:18 PM | PERMALINK

There was also a story about some wealthy Republican activist, not an office holder, but some character like a Bush Pioneer, who was convicted to kidnapping and murdering gay prostitutes.

In Ohio, I think.

Posted by: cld on September 30, 2006 at 5:26 PM | PERMALINK


rnc: If you can't win the election, wreck it.

Rep. Rodney Alexander, R-La., who sponsored the page from his district, told reporters that he learned of the e-mails from a reporter some months ago and passed on the information to Rep. Thomas Reynolds, R-N.Y., chairman of the House Republican campaign organization [the National Republican Congressional Committee].

- A.P. 9/29/06

The NRCC is a political organization entirely separate from the House bureaucracy and the Congress. That is, to put it mildly, not in the disciplinary and administrative chain of command of the House of Representatives. - Josh Marshall

so when tipped off about such a heinous crime..

gop tried to protect the party first...

even over the child..

again?

Posted by: laffin@rnc on September 30, 2006 at 5:41 PM | PERMALINK


rnc: A Democrat simply wouldn't have resigned.


with delay...ney..and now foley..

that's 3-republicans resigning in 2006...

with 2-months left..

is this a record?

Posted by: laffin@rnc on September 30, 2006 at 5:43 PM | PERMALINK

You forgot the ace--Duke Cunningham.

Posted by: Ron Byers on September 30, 2006 at 5:50 PM | PERMALINK

Hastert & Co. may have sat on it. So isn't that the modus operandi for the Republicans? Isn't that what's been happening with the current NIE Report, and the prior one, and what delayed Tom the hammer DeLay's censure? It seems to me that the press and the media and middle of the road Republicans and conservatives and the Liberals and Democrats have been playing the victim, as in "Poor me!", for much too long. First, they let people like Hastert do something unjust like holding up a report. Then they act surprised at the "bad" Republicans for doing this. Then they protest, calling what the Republican leadership does "despicable" or "dirty tricks" or "untrue" or, worse yet, as you do, "unfair". All of which only makes you, the press and your organization look even more like victims. And so you dig your own fate. I also sense that, when you do this and ring your hands, you are hoping the Republican leadership will receive their comeuppance from some mysterious force, and that they will self-destruct of their own accord. The Democrats have been out of power for so long they're afraid to lose any handhold they have, and the press and media have become so used to truckling to the Administration, it is almost a lost battle. It is important to recognize that, if you are ever to restore any semblance of dignity you and your organization have, you need to vote for the Democrats this time around, nevertheless, to balance the Republican leadership who have lived up to Lord Acton's maxim: "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely." I'm starting to see it for what it is, being a victim. Unless you can take action, get the vote out, sue, even call up your Rep and Senator and pressure them to take action, it's just more of being a victim.


This smacks, by the way, of the same type of cover-up that the Catholic Church has now disavowed. It cost the Church millions of dollars and resulted in great shame. Hastert & Co. are as smarmy as the Church was in their cover-up. One, they need to go in shame. Two, a fund needs to be created for the interns affected by all this, carved out of Hastert's personal fortune, or a lawyer needs to be appointed to charge Hastert with conspiracy and perjury, and to sue for injuries and damges. If those who perpetrated this, and helped to conceal it, are taken care of, the Republican Party can claim clean hands. Remember, this is not the rank and file, this is the Leadership of the Party.

Posted by: OCPatriot on September 30, 2006 at 6:06 PM | PERMALINK

cld, your list is missing sterling Republicans Brian Doyle of the Department of Homeland Security, busted this April for soliciting a 14-year-old girl online, and Frank Figueroa, former head of DHS's program to stop child predators, busted for exposing himself to a 16-year-old girl.

At this point, may we assume that any Republican charged with protecting our children from sexual exploitation got the job based on experience? What a bunch of sick freaks.

Posted by: shortstop on September 30, 2006 at 6:38 PM | PERMALINK

N.R.C.C. Says Hastert Didn't Tell The Truth
from "Roll Call" -- the newspaper of Capitol Hill
http://rollcall.com/issues/1_1/breakingnews/15260-1.html
Reynolds Informed Hastert of Allegations Against Foley
Saturday, Sept. 30; 4:39 pm
National Republican Congressional Committee Chairman Tom Reynolds (N.Y.) issued a statement Saturday in which he said that he had informed Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) of allegations of improper contacts between then-Rep. Mark Foley (R-Fla.) and at least one former male page, contradicting earlier statements from Hastert.

Posted by: sysprog on September 30, 2006 at 6:50 PM | PERMALINK

If I may offer a new slogan for the Pedophile Party:

"No Child's Behind Left."


Posted by: BongCrosby on September 30, 2006 at 6:57 PM | PERMALINK

I saw that, sysprog. Are they throwing Hastert over the side?

Bong, oh, my.

Posted by: shortstop on September 30, 2006 at 7:01 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop,

I totally can't recall a thing that happened as long ago as last April.

Anyone remember the Watergate prostitution ring that knocked off Porter Goss?

Whatever happened to that?

Posted by: cld on September 30, 2006 at 7:14 PM | PERMALINK

And Porter Goss is from Florida, too. Is it the skunk ape pissing in the drinking water?

Vote Republican: "No Child's Behind Left."

Now there's a bumper sticker!

Posted by: cld on September 30, 2006 at 7:16 PM | PERMALINK

I don't think the question is "What did Hastert now and when did he know it?"

Rather, it's "Why is Hastert protecting Foley?"

Surely, we know the Republican playbook by this point?

Posted by: lambert strether on September 30, 2006 at 7:21 PM | PERMALINK

They knew, but they covered it up. I would bet dollars against dimes that they were just biding time, waiting for Foley to cruise to victory and then he would have "quietly" stepped down, allowing Jebbie to appoint his replacement (I believe that is how Florida would handle it.)

Now they are like the proverbial rats deserting the sinking ship, and they are using one another for cover. If there is justice, all manner of malfeasance will come to light in the wake of this.

As always, the wrongdoing we know about might fill a sandpail, but the wrongdoing we do not know about would fill the Grand Canyon to level.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 7:27 PM | PERMALINK

"Are they throwing Hastert over the side"

Hmmm, I wondered why CNN was showing that forklift going into Congress."

Posted by: stupid git on September 30, 2006 at 7:32 PM | PERMALINK

oh, this is fun. most fun i've had as a florida democrat in a long, long time!

Posted by: mudwall jackson on September 30, 2006 at 7:34 PM | PERMALINK

Frank had consensual relations with an adult. Clinton has a thing for adult women, not teenage boys.

When you get into the realm of sexual abuse, it is not about sex. It is about power and pathology. The sex is just a fringe benefit.

After this, would you let Foley take your son on a camping trip?

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 8:04 PM | PERMALINK

One has to laugh at Chuckles today. He's trying every lawyer trick in his repertory: misdirection, red herrings, "they all do it," you're another, nyah nyah, without specifically condemning Rep Foley, his hypocrisy, or the 'publican cover up.

Here's another long list of 'publican moral value hypocrites that Charlie champions. Not all were as thorough as Foley when it comes to hiding his pervasions in a cloud of Christian piety but a heck of a lot of them are. Poor old Jeff Gannon must have been working overtime in the Bush whorehouse and dressing as a Raggedy Andy for Congressional 'publicans.

Where was Chris Hanson from Dateline when you need him? Thomas1 1:36 PM

Why, feelin' horney?
did you see my list above? Thomas1 3:52 PM

Your list doesn't explain why Hastert and 'publican congressional leaders continued to cover for Foley. Did they want to give him more time to solicit more young boys? You need to examine your own compulsion to cover up for and excuse the pedophilia of 'publican congressman. You have yet to condemn Foley specifically and it's downright creepy and unchristian. Come to think of it, you're always going on about "loving" children and how pious you are. Piety unto piacularity was a phrase I once used for your type. It's time to revive it.

Posted by: Mike on September 30, 2006 at 8:06 PM | PERMALINK

two words: Congressman Stubbs.

guys, the age of consent in D.C. is 16.

so basically, you're up in arms because a Congressman is gay (no allegations of pedophilia have been made....) nice homophobia there.

look up Stubbs and come back.

don't get me wrong, I think he should have been run out of town on a rail...just like every other politician who abused power for sexual purposes: Clinton, Stubbs et al.

Posted by: Nathan on September 30, 2006 at 8:09 PM | PERMALINK

oh, and GC:

honey, Stubbs was censured by the house for having sex with a 17 year old page....not just e-mails.

he served 14 more years in Congress and was not removed by the Democrats from any of his leadership posts.

Posted by: Nathan on September 30, 2006 at 8:11 PM | PERMALINK

And I did not defend the jackass. I said I would want his head on a pike too. He should have been more than censured. So don't hide under those petticoats.

And only one man calls me "Honey" - got it?

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 8:21 PM | PERMALINK

I see it didn't take long for the spin machine to turn this turd into "they all do it." Sorry Nathan your boy is a pedophile by any definition. Denny Hastert is his Cardinal Law.

Keep repeating the scummy talking point. I am sure all the Christian Fundamentalists you want to turn out for the vote in November will understand that elected Republicans should be held to a very low standard.

Posted by: Ron Byers on September 30, 2006 at 8:25 PM | PERMALINK

Ah, the wonders of gaiety.

Posted by: Brian on September 30, 2006 at 8:29 PM | PERMALINK

As usual, Nathan has nothing but half-assed whining. DC statutes notwithstanding, this will be a federal case, as any 1L would know. As many actual lawyers have pointed out, it would appear that Foley has violated, among other laws, the Adam Walsh Child Protection Act of 2006. Among other things, this increases penalties for adults who use the Internet to discuss or solicit sexual acts with "minors" (defined as an "individual who has not attained the age of 18 years").

Nice try with the boo-hooing about "homophobia." This thread is full of outrage at pedophilia. Your boy Foley made the GOP's problems far more serious by preying on boys instead of girls, it's true--but that problem's going to be with the GOP. It's your base, not the Democratic party, that's already ringing the homophobia bell.

As for Stubbs, he should have been forced to resign, no question about it. He, however, is not currently running for Congress and preying on underage children at the same time he chairs the House sex offender caucus

Now, neither is Foley.

Posted by: shortstop on September 30, 2006 at 8:35 PM | PERMALINK

Ron Byers: look up the definition of pedophilia. you're pretty fucking ignorant.

Stubbs also admitted to making sexual advances to two other pages, including a 16 year old (as with Foley).

so, why did Democrats keep electing him? why wasn't he at least removed from his leadership positions? why wasn't he forced to apologize? (which he never did.) why? he argued that his accusers were motivated by homophobia.

nice try. Yeah, I think Stubbs should have been expelled from Congress and ditto for Foley. but you'll defend Clinton, you'll defend Stubbs and then try and explain why Foley (and there's no assertion that he continued his advances after being told they were unwanted) is different.

you're going to get a backlash from gay Democrats you know.

Posted by: Nathan on September 30, 2006 at 8:35 PM | PERMALINK

pedophilia is sexual attraction for prepubescent children.

check the dsm IV. like I said, I don't think gay men in general will appreciate being called pedophiles

Posted by: Nathan on September 30, 2006 at 8:38 PM | PERMALINK

So now two wrongs make a right? Not buying it.

No congressman ever should have sexual contact with any page or underling. Just as a college professor is forbidden from dating his students - the power dichotomy in place makes a "consensual" relationship a practical impossibility.

Thanks for playing tho.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 8:39 PM | PERMALINK

Nathan, you're a fool. You're equating gay men with pedophiles and you think we're going to get a backlash from gay Democrats? Why do you have so much trouble distinguishing between homosexuality and pedophilia?

I've already covered Stubbs. Clinton had consensual sex with a 24-year-old woman who by her own account initiated it. You're damn right we'll defend him.

If you can't understand the difference between Clinton's case and this one--once again, we weep for your "clients."

Stop before you humiliate yourself further. There is no defense here. You guys are going to lose big over this one, particularly over the cover-up.

Posted by: shortstop on September 30, 2006 at 8:42 PM | PERMALINK

Precisely because of

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 8:44 PM | PERMALINK

"the cover up" should completed my last post. Sorry. Screwed up the tag. Again.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 8:46 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop:

what is the definition of pedophilia? hint: it doesn't include 16 year olds.
are you going to call Stubbs a pedophile? where were you calling for his head?

GC: as I said, I agree with you. so, do you agree that Clinton should have been impeached for sex with an underlying?


oh, by the way, at public universities, professors are not prohibited from having sex with undergrads. fact. some private ones too.

Posted by: Nathan on September 30, 2006 at 8:48 PM | PERMALINK

Gee, rnc, I'm just glad that the liberal Democrats who control the universe ordained that this scandal would break at this precise moment. Sure, a later report would have made it too late for the GOP to dredge up a replacement candidate, whereas now they may have enough time to do it, but on the other hand the scandal gets to percolate this way and tarnish the entire Republican leadership. I'm sure our Democratic overlords made the right decision.

Al, I don't think Coulter will risk having people check her voter registration again. She has trouble filling in her address and her sex. Gender confusion is not attractive in a last-minute candidate.

Posted by: Zeno on September 30, 2006 at 8:48 PM | PERMALINK

I was pissed at Clinton - but as Shortstop says, Monica has never denied being the aggressor. So no. The impeachment was a side-show and a farce.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 8:51 PM | PERMALINK

I have to go grade exams. Back later.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 8:53 PM | PERMALINK

Ah, this is so very, very Nathan. Now we'll have 100 posts with him obsessively braying that we're misdefining "pedophilia" while ignoring the fact that Foley is allegedly in violation of several federal laws as well as the most basic public trust. I highly doubt that when Foley does time and Hastert, Bohner et. al face possible charges as accessories, they're going to be worried about whether they fit the APA definition of pedophilia.

I didn't call for Stubbs' head in 1983, it's true. I was a little young to do so. Say, are you a fucking idiot? Is this really the best you can do?

Posted by: shortstop on September 30, 2006 at 8:53 PM | PERMALINK

Nathan,

You feel dirty carrying water for the scum Foley and his enablers. After all he resigned as soon as the shit hit the fan. It isn't like he thinks he is anything but a butt fucking power hungry scumbag.

I love that you are using the same dissemling definition of pedophilia used by the Catholic church. We all know how far that got them

You do your masters proud. I wouldn't have the stomach to carry water for guys like Foley. If I were in your shoes I would want to take a bath every time I logged off. Creepy. 54 year old man on 16 year old boy sex. And you are cheering the scum on. What a dirty filthy way to make a living.

Posted by: Ron Byers on September 30, 2006 at 8:57 PM | PERMALINK

GC: Anyone know if Foley's congressinal pension will be revoked?

As a congressman with 16 years of service he is not eligible for an immediate annuity. He is still eligible for a deferred annuity at age 62.

The only behavior that would allow revocation of a federal retirement annuity would be treason, or refusal to testify in a national security case.

Posted by: DCNative on September 30, 2006 at 8:58 PM | PERMALINK

Zeno: Sure, a later report would have made it too late for the GOP to dredge up a replacement candidate, whereas now they may have enough time to do it, but on the other hand the scandal gets to percolate this way and tarnish the entire Republican leadership.

Plus, there's plenty of time for still more youngsters to come forward with their warm memories of Rep. Foley! And something tells me more will.

So far, my favorite excuse in all of this is House page committee chair Shimkus' simultaneous assurance that he in 2005 and that he "had no information" about the explicit IMing from the other page until Friday. That's some investigative skill you show there, Representative.

Posted by: shortstop on September 30, 2006 at 8:59 PM | PERMALINK

Sorry--that last graf should have read:

So far, my favorite excuse in all of this is House page committee chair Shimkus' simultaneous assurance that he "immediately investigated" Alexander's report of the inappropriate e-mails in 2005 and that he "had no information" about the explicit IMing from the other page until Friday. That's some investigative skill you show there, Representative.

Posted by: shortstop on September 30, 2006 at 9:01 PM | PERMALINK

Heading out for the eve. Everyone have fun giving Nathan a verbal swirly.

Posted by: shortstop on September 30, 2006 at 9:03 PM | PERMALINK

Again, the Republican Leadership of the House have treated a criminal matter as a political matter instead. How many other crimes have been and continue to be committed because of their penchant for not informing anyone outside of select members of the Leadership's staff. How many other "investigations", held in secret and not actually written down or communicated to anyone else have shown everyone to be totally innocent "because they said there was no problem"?! That's the question to ask and not stop asking until many of these folks are locked away in jail, removed from office...or, in the case of Ney, both please.

Posted by: parrot on September 30, 2006 at 9:15 PM | PERMALINK

two words: Congressman Stubbs.

Wrong words. . . the name was Studds.

guys, the age of consent in D.C. is 16.

No, according to the federal sexual-predator provisions that Congressman Mark Foley himself authored (as part of the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006), the age of consent with regard to sexual advances made over the internet is 18. Doesn't matter where the computers are located.

If you want to argue about age, take it up with Foley.

Posted by: Not Nathan on September 30, 2006 at 9:18 PM | PERMALINK

Say no evil, hear no evil, see no evil. Which monkey is which in this affair? That's a good question for those who want to get to the bottom of how willfully ignorant the folks in charge of the People's House are today. Tomorrow, let's hope they are out and let the investigations begin. And for those who try to continue their criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice, obstruct international norms of behaviour, obstruct once common, expected norms of decency, let's pray that they end up where they deserve...before they meet their Maker...if ever.

Posted by: parrot on September 30, 2006 at 9:24 PM | PERMALINK

Craigie ftw in one. Impressive.

Posted by: jerry on September 30, 2006 at 10:13 PM | PERMALINK


I actually spoke to (maybe "harangued" is a better word) Ben Cardin (running for US Senate in MD) today, and after telling him that Dems need to get in front of the GOP disinfo campaign over Iran, I said that they need to quit playing nice sucker, go for the jugular over this Foley-GOP leadership thing. Cardin said the Dems introduced some resolution, but then he added something like, "I think the media will build it up for us".

Judge for yourself. Doesn't make me happy, the more that I think about it. Maybe the blog world can build the scandal up, like it did with Trent Lott's moment of candor?

And, by the way -- dirty politics? Hell yes. Republicans deserve no mercy. None.

Posted by: sglover on September 30, 2006 at 10:23 PM | PERMALINK

notice how Charlie's only concerned about the homosexual child molesters, I guess he's okay with the heterosexual ones. Sick fuck.

Posted by: haha on September 30, 2006 at 10:41 PM | PERMALINK

According to CNN: "The top three Republicans in the House assailed Rep. Mark Foley Saturday over his e-mails to a teenage male page and said his resignation was not enough.

"Calling the incident "an obscene breach of trust," the congressmen released a statement saying, "[Foley's] immediate resignation must now be followed by the full weight of the criminal justice system."

"The improper communications between Congressman Mark Foley and former House congressional pages is unacceptable and abhorrent. It is an obscene breach of trust," read the statement issued by Majority Leader John Boehner of Ohio, House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert of Illinois, and Majority Whip Roy Blunt of Missouri."

The only remaining questions involve the Congressmen who, despite having a duty to the other pages in the page program, didn't handle this matter appropriately when they first learned Foley was a sexual predator. That would include Boehner and Hastert. I haven't researched it but I wonder if they are not accessories after the fact.

Posted by: Ron Byers on September 30, 2006 at 10:50 PM | PERMALINK

Thomas1,

The press release from the Republican leadership seems to give you cover if you want to stop defending Foley. We would all understand.

Posted by: Ron Byers on September 30, 2006 at 10:54 PM | PERMALINK

" Cardin said the Dems introduced some resolution, but then he added something like, "I think the media will build it up for us".

Judge for yourself. Doesn't make me happy, the more that I think about it. Maybe the blog world can build the scandal up, like it did with Trent Lott's moment of candor?"


Posted by: sglover on September 30, 2006 at 10:23 PM

It is not the job of the media to do so but the job of the politician, then which causes the media to cover it. Right there I think you see one of the hearts of the problems with the current Dem party. They keep waiting for the media to make the scandal for them, when the media for the most part these days is owned by strong backers of the GOP, their opposition. Even without that fact it is the wrong way around as I said at the start, but in this day of the mighty GOP media machine to think anyone other than Dems themselves will make this out to be the serious issue that it is does not understand the opponent and environment they function in. They think it is still back in the day of fair play and responsible journalism, a ship which sailed on 9/11/01.

As for Chuckles and his quaint attempts to duplicate the pedophilia definition defence the RCC crashed and burned with so recently, it is a sign of the desperation and lack of ammunition to work with. I have to admit I find it absolutely typical of him and the mentality he represents here of a "good" conservative, deflect, deny, and redefine any and all problems to the opposition somehow and not themselves and when all else fails use the "can't judge a barrel by the odd bad apple" defence. The fact that they even tried to bring an equivalence to Clinton and Lewinsky shows desperation, for as has been noted there the younger woman pursued the older man who then abused the trust of his position of authority in having an inappropriate sexual relationship with, which while deplorable does not even come close to pedophilia in nature with the pedophile being the one doing the pursuing and abusing position of trust to boot.

This is a perfect wedge into fracturing the GOP base with, and the Democratic party would be morons indeed to "leave it to the media" to whip up at this stage. It may be a bit on the gutter side of the street, but at least it is based on reality instead of fantasy, unlike all too many of the GOP claims of Democratic sexual misconduct. It is also reflective of a pattern in the GOP leadership of as someone else noted treating criminal issues as if they were political ones and then covering them up. The GOP voters, as opposed to the politicians and party operatives, mostly believe in the premise that their guys are on the side of angels and that the evil lefties are the ones doing all these awful things. Shatter that perception of the GOP leadership and you shatter the GOP base itself and their grip on power. Combine that with the way Abramoff reaches into the WH and Congress both and the clear issues of incompetence on Iraq, New Orleans, just about everything really and with the discontent already clearly out in the voting public with the GOP and the Dems should be able to win this Nov for a change. But only if they are willing to stand up and say these things themselves, they cannot trust others to do it for them, especially not in the last weeks of an election campaign with all the political ads to come out in the last four weeks.

Posted by: Scotian on September 30, 2006 at 11:17 PM | PERMALINK

Do I really need to keep going?

Please do. Over a cliff preferably. Dumbass.

Posted by: *.* on September 30, 2006 at 11:44 PM | PERMALINK

And, by the way -- dirty politics? Hell yes. Republicans deserve no mercy. None.

The gloves came off in our house a couple of weeks ago. At every opportunity, my husband has been putting on his uniform and blasting Jim Talent(less) hack about his record of missing 65 of 95 meetings of the Senate Armed Services Committee and demanding to know why.

I follow up by attacking him on his anti-stem cell research position and pinning him down with science.

We had an evangelical tell us I should burst into flames for stepping foot in her church, and she told my husband that he was a disgrace to his uniform if he would vote for a pro-abort Democrat like McCaskill. He told her that her right to express that opinion without retribution was why he served. I wanted to kick her ass, and might have done so, but he was unflappable.

Posted by: Global Citizen on September 30, 2006 at 11:54 PM | PERMALINK

Thomas:

If you're not defending Foley -- what's the point of all these moral equivalencies? They're diversions; two wrongs never make a right.

If you want to take a strong, morally clear, principled stand -- just condemn the malefactor and move on.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on September 30, 2006 at 11:55 PM | PERMALINK

Call em as I see em. Dumbass.

Posted by: *.* on September 30, 2006 at 11:55 PM | PERMALINK

Thomas 1,

Your list of Hollywood Democrats is suspect, to say the least. Dennis Hopper, for one, is a registered Republican last time I checked.

And as to Thomas Jefferson, it is startling news indeed that he "bore at least one child with his African slave." If he indeed succeeded in bearing children, he was more of a Renaissance "Man" than I ever realized.

Posted by: zeke on September 30, 2006 at 11:58 PM | PERMALINK

That was a really good one, Zeke.

Posted by: Global Citizen on October 1, 2006 at 12:00 AM | PERMALINK

Thomas:

Riddle me this:

Can you name me one principle of the Democratic Party that you've *ever* supported? -- and go back in history for as long as you'd like. Just something that defines the Democrats against the Republicans (like Medicare or Social Security) rather than a bipartisan issue like support for a major war.

One principle, Thomas. One reason under the sun that you were *ever* a Democrat at *any* time in your life.

This ought to be good ...

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on October 1, 2006 at 12:04 AM | PERMALINK

Thomas:

Spewing google is not research.

It's closer to OCD behavior, truthfully.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on October 1, 2006 at 12:05 AM | PERMALINK

Charlie is desperate. He really must get paid for this....

Posted by: Marc on October 1, 2006 at 12:07 AM | PERMALINK

Thomas:

BZZZT. That was bipartisan.

Go ahead, try again. Something this time that was actually opposed by Republicans.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on October 1, 2006 at 12:09 AM | PERMALINK

Thomas:

Maybe so, but it was quickly adapted by Eiesenhower and became part of the firm foundation of American foreign policy, never to be fundamentally questioned by Republicans again.

Granted, you had a little wiggle room there, so you point is perhaps technically correct -- if not at all correct in spirit.

So try again. To make it less potentially ambiguous, a domestic policy issue this time.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on October 1, 2006 at 12:15 AM | PERMALINK

Thomas:

And I'm not talking about fringy Joe McCarthy/Barry Goldwater Republican opposition, either.

I mean a genuinely disputed partisan issue that had Democratic support and *mainstream* Republican opposition, and eventually was enacted into law, to become a guiding light of your values as a Democrat.

One genuinely Democratic domestic issue that you support, Thomas.

Medicare would be the best example -- but you name it. Just one.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on October 1, 2006 at 12:21 AM | PERMALINK

Thomas:

You're obfuscating. We already dealt with the initial opposition to the Marshall Plan. Robert Taft Republicans don't count -- nor do Henry Wallace Democrats.

Move on. One domestic issue, Thomas.

Posted by: rmck1 on October 1, 2006 at 12:24 AM | PERMALINK

Thomas:

Eiesenhower was a strong proponent of the Marshall Plan. By his admininstration, nobody considered it a Democratic issue, but rather a bipartisan cornerstone of our national security.

One exclusively Democratic issue, Thomas.

Stay on the subject.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on October 1, 2006 at 12:26 AM | PERMALINK

Congratulations, Bob. You've successfully helped Charlie/Thomas1 move the thread away from Foley and the Republicans' coverup for a pedophile predator.

Posted by: nova zembla on October 1, 2006 at 12:27 AM | PERMALINK

Bob - I made a post about my Iran views. Come visit me when this exercise in futility is over.

Posted by: Global Citizen on October 1, 2006 at 12:27 AM | PERMALINK

nova and Global:

Good points. Enough of stupid troll tricks.

Global -- did you send me the URL?

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on October 1, 2006 at 12:30 AM | PERMALINK

Does the email I see when I roll over your name work?

Posted by: Global Citizen on October 1, 2006 at 12:33 AM | PERMALINK

Thomas:

It's true. If there were any justice in the world, I should be sent to my own little private gulag every time I succumb to the dark temptation of responding to one of your asinine, off-topic and entirely unedifying tangents.

Color me untrollable for the remainder of this discussion.

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on October 1, 2006 at 12:35 AM | PERMALINK

Global:

I didn't know you sent me a URL. Lemme go check (I have to log out to do so).

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on October 1, 2006 at 12:36 AM | PERMALINK

I resent it just now, just to be sure.

Posted by: Global Citizen on October 1, 2006 at 12:40 AM | PERMALINK

Impeach Dennis Hastert!

Bob

Posted by: rmck1 on October 1, 2006 at 12:41 AM | PERMALINK

 
"The fish rots from the head down."
 
Why shouldn't Republicans cover up for Foley?
 
They covered up for so many more prominent party members!
 
Ronald Reagan committing adultery. ("...the 57-year-old Reagan's creaky coupling with an 18-year-old campaign worker [and] ... how Reagan blithely bounced the bedsprings with lover Christine Larson while wife Nancy struggled to give birth to daughter Patti.") (And more.)
 
Ronald Reagan committing rape.
 
George HW Bush committing adultery.
 
Bob Dole's adultery hidden by newsmen. (last item)
 
George W Bush impregnating a 15-year-old girl.
 
George W Bush trying to get a 14-year-old drunk.
 
Has all that just gone down the Memory Hole to oblivion?
 
Why expect Mark Foley to stay away from the party?
 

Posted by: Raven on October 1, 2006 at 12:48 AM | PERMALINK

Didn't it come out during Clinton's impeachment trial that the GOP's pillar of sanctimony Henry Hyde had engaged in extramarital relations? And I seem to recall a fellow named Livingston...

Posted by: Global Citizen on October 1, 2006 at 12:51 AM | PERMALINK

Here is the bottom line: Human beings are rutty bastards. And power is the ultimate aphrodesiac. No party owns exclusive claim to morality, especially sexual morality.

It is when one sets him- or herself up as a paragon of virtue and oh-so-better than others, and then they are revealed to be blatant hypocrites, that is when we are justified in taking a hammer to their feet of clay.

Posted by: Global Citizen on October 1, 2006 at 12:56 AM | PERMALINK

Revised link for the above "(And more.)"

Posted by: Raven on October 1, 2006 at 12:59 AM | PERMALINK

We need Pat Robertson to go on TV Sunday and say a prayer for Rep. Foley.........repent!

Posted by: avahome on October 1, 2006 at 1:02 AM | PERMALINK

Didn't it come out during Clinton's impeachment trial that the GOP's pillar of sanctimony Henry Hyde had engaged in extramarital relations?

Yeah, which he claimed as a "youthful indiscretion" -- if you can call an affair with another woman while you're married and in your forties that!

Posted by: nova zembla on October 1, 2006 at 1:04 AM | PERMALINK

Suggested right-wing talking point:

NAMBLA is a crucial constituency, and it's up for grabs. Foley's actions were just more evidence of Republican political shrewdness.

Posted by: sglover on October 1, 2006 at 1:45 AM | PERMALINK

Found at tpm,

"It's vile. It's more sad than anything else, to see someone with such potential throw it all down the drain because of a sexual addiction."
--Rep. Mark Foley (R-FL), commenting on President Clinton, following release of the Starr Report, September 12, 1998.

Posted by: cld on October 1, 2006 at 3:13 AM | PERMALINK

bob,

I don't mind your deranged mental state at all. Makes me feel all normal inside, like an Osmond Family breakfast. Eggy and toasty and toothy. Normal.


Posted by: cld on October 1, 2006 at 3:34 AM | PERMALINK

Thomas1,

Mickey Rooney had sex with underage boys? I really don't get out enough.

Everyone on that list I reprinted was a Republican office holder, not some private citizen, and every one of them was engaged in criminal activity.

Gerry Studds was censured in 1983 for something which had happened ten years earlier, not ongoing, obsessive behaviour.

What's especially creepy about Foley is the pattern and obsessiveness of his behaviour. He's not having consensual sex of any kind, he's fixating on a specific vulnerable type and carefully insinuating himself with them.

Getting himself made Chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children Caucus is exactly in keeping with that kind of character who cartoonishly cloaks himself in the public appearance of the virtues he most grossly lacks, self-conscious of his own evil. (Generally the most characteristic Republican failing.)


Posted by: cld on October 1, 2006 at 3:35 AM | PERMALINK

Here's that list of Republican sex offenders, with links to sources.

Posted by: Raven on October 1, 2006 at 5:05 AM | PERMALINK

Speaker Magoo is toast.
This hour :

#1 story @ foxnews.com = "Reynolds Warned Hastert"

#5 story @ newsmax.com = "Hastert Knew"

#1 story @ cnn.com = "GOP leaders assail Foley amid Democratic criticism"
[ Reynolds is a Democrat! Who knew? ]

#1 story @ chicagotribune.com = "Sex scandal fallout"

Posted by: zelda on October 1, 2006 at 5:12 AM | PERMALINK

As with most current event postings, I read Kevin for the tendentious PC spin, then go to Powerline for the facts.
If you want the facts, Hastert knew Foley sent "overly friendly" e-mails and that the page's family did not want the story publicised. It is obvious that the leadership told Foley "spend more time with your family," forget about challenging Nelson for the Senate seat, go and sin no more.

Posted by: minionn of rove on October 1, 2006 at 7:52 AM | PERMALINK

How it must have pained the Chicago Tribune to have to report on this at all. Ah, it's a good day in Chicago.

Posted by: shortstop on October 1, 2006 at 7:53 AM | PERMALINK

minion of rove--

"It is obvious that..."

No, what you were saying is not "obvious".

Even if it were true, though,do you really think the average American voter is going to understand the nuances that you are presenting?

"Oh, gee, Peggy, it says here in the paper that the House GOP leadership only knew about some of the e-mails where Foley was only somewhat inappropriate. And when they started feeling these suspicions, they quickly told Foley to get out of the public eye and spend more time with his "family" because something like this--even though they weren't the really bad e-mails--- might make the GOP look bad. I guess that means everything's OK."

Please.

Posted by: kokblok on October 1, 2006 at 9:19 AM | PERMALINK

kokblok

I'm glad to see Dems now think gay Congressmen proposioning boys is not o.k., even if Barney Franks or Gary Studds think so. Kinda like your valiant defense of Ms. Plame of the CIA, after 25 years of treating CIA agents as Major Strasser from Casablanca.
I said the facts conveniently left out of Kevin's post [and the more oleaginous Josh Marshall's] are that the memos in question in 2005 were not sexual in nature, and that the family's request for privacy trumped the need for preening by the selective crusaders you wanted sicced on Foley.
You may be right and the majority won't understand after this issue is puffed by the MSM, the same way George Allen's 20 year old boorishness is more important than Bob Menendez' current corruption, or an low-level aide to Karl Rove's skybox tickets are more important than Kofi Annan's turbocharged papershreader.

Posted by: minion of rove on October 1, 2006 at 9:45 AM | PERMALINK

Minion of Rove,

You seem to have a strange conception of time, where things that Republicans did long ago are 'out-of-date' or 'irrelevant' (cf. George Allen), while things that Democrats did long ago are fair game. Remind me again, when exactly did the Gary Studds incident occur? Wasn't that in 1983? Is Gary Studds in the congress anymore?

Furthermore, I don't understand what your basic point is...that Democrats have done bad things, too? OK, fine, sell that line to the American people, then. Instead of that other line. You know, the one that says that Republicans are morally superior and that they were going to clean out the government of sexual miscreants? You know, the line that you guys actually desperately need to win elections?

Posted by: kokblok on October 1, 2006 at 10:22 AM | PERMALINK

Ah Chuckles, attempting to lie yet again I see, you can never be accurate about anything. I have never stated I was with thousands of partners in my life, and you never actually quote what I said when you throw out this claim as some sort of deflection, in this case to deflect from your defence of a pedophile GOPer and the pedophile defending and supporting GOP leadership right up until it became public knowledge from which then they suddenly have an attack of conscience. The conscience of the modern conservative, anything's ok unless you get caught/goes public.

Incidentally Chuckles none of my partners with minors, none of them were under my authority, and none of them were coerced in any fashion. Some of us actually have a strong sense of ethics in how we treat our relationships with other people, unlike it appears the GOP House leadership and yourself. What this man did was disgusting and despicable, as was what the House GOP leadership failed to do for almost a year while this was still able to be covered-up.

Sorry Chuckles nothing you say about me or about Clinton changes this ugly truth: This man was a sexual predator writing the sex offender legislation that defines him as a sexual predator and pedophile and when the House leadership was notified of this they kept it to themselves and treated it like a political problem until it went public and now suddenly they feel criminal sanctions are needful. If they really believed that the criminal investigation would have been already ongoing. So continue on Chuckles showing you have no morals, no ethics and only one master, not God but the GOP and their holding power. You cannot change the fact you have time and again decried pedophilia at this site when you could use it to attack GOP foes but when the GOP is caught with it's pants down on this matter you defend, deflect, and smear.

Incidentally, when are you going to figure out that not only do I not care about what you say on my personal history (as inaccurate as you always are in your repeated exaggerations when you do so) but no one else other than trolletariat members see it as relevant and aside from them it does not affect the credibility my thinking is seen by here. Keep it up Chuckles, you make it so easy to show you for the lying hypocrite and GOP fellating dweeb that you are.

Posted by: Scotian on October 1, 2006 at 10:25 AM | PERMALINK

thomas1--

When has anyone here ever defended the actions of a congressman who had inappropriate relations with an underage page? Name some names or shut up.

In any case, it doesn't matter what liberal bloggers think about this issue. The only thing that matters is what the GOP voters think. And I doubt that a defense of "Well, Democrats do it too" is going to hold much water with that crowd. But sorry, that's what you get for encouraging a moral crusade and for pretending that a candidate's personal life and moral fibre is their most important feature. That is why you will be more vulnerable to sex scandals than Democrats. Chickens come home to roost.

Posted by: kokblok on October 1, 2006 at 10:35 AM | PERMALINK

Scotian--

I for one would listen to you even more closely if you HAD slept with thousands of people. That's an unusual feat, and anyone who could accomplish it is at least worthy of some kind of respect.

Abuse of power is the issue here with Foley, abuse of power made much worse by the fact that there was a minor involved, who was also an 'employee'.

Thomas1--
Well, I don't know, I think technically Foley still IS in the congress, but I think you will agree that the focus is likely to be more on the guy that just resigned rather than the guy who has been out of office for more than five years.

And what part of your statement about wanting to clear out child molesters don't I understand? Oh, I don't know, how about the part where you spend most of your post trying to say that Democrats do it too, therefore creating a strange atmosphere of equivalence where it would seem like the average voter in a particular district would not know what to do when faced with a choice between a pedophile and a non-pedophile, because, well that non-pedophile belongs to a party that has had pedophiles within it as well.

The Democrats are naming specific names of people who should be investigated. The Republicans (including yourself) are obfuscating and spouting moral relativism and the "general" immorality of the Dems as a defense. Why is this not surprising?

Posted by: kokblok on October 1, 2006 at 10:49 AM | PERMALINK

thomas1--

Did I misread this below? If so, fine.

"Unfortunately, it won't stop those same posters from defending their guy when it happens to him again."

Posted by: kokblok on October 1, 2006 at 10:51 AM | PERMALINK

a) The Repub leadership did not know of sexually explicit and/or over-the-line e-mails. They were enformed of some "creepy" overly familiar e-mails that the page's family wanted no publicity over.

b) Foley resigned immediately - Studds said since he was gay he should be given a pass on hitting on a little boy, and Mass voters agreed with him. Franks is still preening in Congress, thanks to Goobie (sp?) being, I believe, 19 when he was turning his tricks.

c) I agree the party of personal responsibility has a higher standard than the Oprah party where no one should be accountable for their actions, but I believe we are trying to clean house, while your support for Wm. Jefferson, Bob Menendez, Bill Ritter in Colorado [plea barganing felonies to farmland trespass so illegal aliens won't be deported], etc.etc.etc. shows your lack of commitment to the "culture of corruption" meme.

Posted by: minion of rove on October 1, 2006 at 11:37 AM | PERMALINK

Chuckles:

The point was on how you cannot quote someone accurately and how this illustrates your constant pattern of exaggeration and distortion. As to how many people I have slept with defining/destroying my right to speak on the topic of sexual ethics, only if you are a narrow minded little prude like yourself. No person came to my bed without informed consent, no person came to my bed without fully understanding what they were doing and why, no one came to my bed that did not choose to be there, no one came to my bed that I had any authority over, no one came to my bed got pregnant because I used birth control and no STDs because I also paid proper attention to the conditions which can indicate such as well as keeping myself quite clean.

I(f anything Chuckles my sexual promiscuity without STD and pregnancy consequences throughout it underscore that I am a far better person to discuss the ethics of sexuality than you are. Remember chuckles the only reason I ever brought up how many partners I had had in my life was to show why sexual education can prevent unwanted STDs and pregnancy since "I had been raised with strong sex ed from my parents long before puberty sent me exploring first hand for myself. The better educated and prepared someone is for their hormones and the pleasures of sex the better the chances are of no unwanted pregnancies and STDs. The fact that you are the only person that ever brings it up and do so mostly (this is the first time this was used in a tangentially related manner and even here it is irrelevant) where it has zero bearing on the topic, what I've said, indeed for anything other than cheap character smear.

Again though none of this changes the fact that your track record in this thread has been to deflect, deny, and smear anyone not derailed by your attempts to defend the party of pedophiles, the GOP. A GOP Congresscritter was clearly a pedophile by the legislation standards he wrote so trying to claim otherwise is idiocy and a particularly brazen form of chutzpah. The House GOP leadership appears to be informed almost a full year ago and did nothing and treated it like a minor matter yet once it goes public suddenly demands criminal investigation. Yet instead of being furious with the GOP leadership of the House you instead spent your time claiming Dems were no better, that Dems did it too, that Dems had no right to make such criticism, that Dems were wrong, etc. You constantly defend the GOP and one of the nicest things about the comments at this blog Chuckles as I have pointed out to you before is that once you post something you cannot edit/delete it down the road when it becomes awkward/inconvenient. You seem to think my sexual history fits that for me, but I knew when I wrote it that some slime ball member of the trolletariat would likely pick it up for further use as you have, but since it is irrelevant to my ability to analyze political matters so what? Which of course you have done and which of course has only succeeded in showing your own sliminess yet again while hypocritically calling other people's ethics into question for daring to hold a different opinion to you, the President, GOP, and conservatism as defined by the Church of Chuckles.

kokblok:

I said originally that I figured it was roughly a thousand people I had had sexual relations with in my life, maybe a few more or less but roughly that number. Most of that of course being between the explosion in the teens until my early thirties when I settled down with my wife. Personally I don't see what the big deal about it really is and as I said the only reason I ever mentioned it was to use to illustrate the effectiveness of sexual education over abstinence education in preventing STDs and unwanted pregnancies. Other than for issues like that I can't really see why anyone would consider this terribly important/impressive.

Posted by: Scotian on October 1, 2006 at 11:55 AM | PERMALINK

minion, I've got to run in a mo, so I'll leave #3 for others to mock at length. (#2 is pointless--Studds' crime took place in the 1970s and I and others have already said he should have resigned--sorry, but this isn't going to distract the American public.)

So just a quick word on #1: If Hastert, Shimkus, Boehner, Trandahl and team actually didn't see the sexually explicit IMs (I'll disagree that the first batch of e-mails weren't "over the line"--they were far enough over for the GOP House leadership to go running around comparing notes and trying to hide it), ask yourself why not.

This guy was running the child sex offender caucus, for cryin' out loud, and you're telling me the GOP leadership couldn't find the time to even cursorily check out what he was actually doing? WTF is that? Who the hell cares what the parents of one page thought about it? If you know someone may be a child predator, do you think you might just take the time to make sure he isn't doing it to other children?

You guys are desperate to spin this as an innocent mistake on the part of the GOP House leaders. It's not, as evidenced by their frantic spin, constantly changing stories and attempts to blame each other (not to mention their idiotic decision not to tell the Dem on the House page committee about it--possibly the most damning choice they made). These guys are going down. We know it, America knows it, even Chris Shays and Peter King know it. But by all means keep talking--this will be fun to bring up later.

Posted by: shortstop on October 1, 2006 at 11:56 AM | PERMALINK

I agree the party of personal responsibility has a higher standard than the Oprah party where no one should be accountable for their actions

I'm all for accountability, no matter who it tarnishes. And I would never give the lame excuse that "well your guys did X, Y, and Z so we should just get a pass. If isn't fair that you got away with it and now we can't.

Ever stopped to consider the prevalent social mores cascilate over time? They do. That pendulum just keeps on swinging, like a perpetual motion machine. It never stays in the middle very long.

Posted by: Global Citizen on October 1, 2006 at 11:56 AM | PERMALINK

*vascilate

Posted by: Global Citizen on October 1, 2006 at 12:00 PM | PERMALINK

Bob Menendez,

WTF - The boy just sells out the Constitution for your little boy King and you now want to slime him?

Posted by: thethirdPaul on October 1, 2006 at 12:05 PM | PERMALINK

Thomas1,

Yes, and that list contains four or five people who weren't elected but were slavering Republican activists.

Check out this rather more incredibly long list of Republican child molestors posted in this comment yesterday,


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_09/009589.php#970910


What do they all have in common? Child molesting and Republicanism.

It brings up an interesting question about how the psychological trauma of being molested as a child affects someone already suffering from social conservative disability.

As I understand it most people who've been molested recover, but those who don't and go on to re-enact the behaviour obsessively are probably the social conservatives, because social conservatism is a kind of learning disability where the infantile or childhood environment is excessively imprinted and anything outside that causes hysteria or acute anxiety.

Posted by: cld on October 1, 2006 at 12:10 PM | PERMALINK

Scotian--
Well, I was sort of joking. Of course it doesn't matter either way. But still, a thousand? How did you find the time? (You don't have to answer that!) Naturally, people might be jealous of such a thing, and especially jealous considering that you weren't in any way "punished" for your "deeds".

As far as abstinence vs. safe sex goes, I've never understood why people opposed to abstinence-only programs never bring up the example of Thailand, where people are far more promiscuous than they are here (no, it's not just sex tourists) and yet they have been able to pretty much knock out AIDS and other STDs.

Rube of Rove--
Again, what is your point? You assert that the GOP is trying to "clean house" on corruption, but that is laughable. You admit that, well, actually Barney Frank's transgression was a little different, since the 'boy' was in that case was, uh, a consenting ADULT.
You are saying absolutely nothing, you strange man. I don't even how I am supposed to argue with a statement as ludicrous as "the GOP is cleaning house". These kinds of statements come from the minds of madmen, intent on seeing whatever it is they want to see. In ten years if the GOP is still in power and we have another round of corruption scandals, you'll say the same damn thing: "Don't worry, they're cleaning house this time!" Are you really that much of a rube? Are you really that strange of a person?

Posted by: kokblok on October 1, 2006 at 12:11 PM | PERMALINK

We do not know the ages of the other pages who received e-mails from Foley. Even with the questions of when a child becomes a young adult, there is the issue of sexual harassment in the workplace - Misuse of power by a superior. A very wise friend of mine asked the question of "How does a youth tell a superior to "fuck off"?

I'm sure that Susan Carpenter McMillan will be all over this with her vast knowledge of a case in Arkansas.

Posted by: stupid git on October 1, 2006 at 12:27 PM | PERMALINK

koblok:

When something is important to a person they make the time and I found sexual pleasure and understanding how different people treated/saw sex to be a fascinating topic, especially when you consider how central sex is to human beings since it is the tool by which survival of species operates and which is so central/core to human nature/behaviour/interactions. It probably helped that I was honest with people about my nature from the outset so if it was something that would bother a person they knew immediately to not get involved with me on that level instead of the games so many others like to play. From my very first time onwards the core principle that shaped my sexual ethics was informed consent, and I never deviated from that rule. Something which I think really wigs out the socons among us is how many other people out there that are the same way and follow the same credo regardless of their official political affiliation.

It is also because of my views on sexual ethics and in particular informed consent which makes me so furious with those that defend pedophile behaviour. I had no patience for it when it was done on behalf of the RCC regarding the alter boys (that also had to do with my spending nearly a decade growing up as an alter boy in the RCC before I started to leave the Church, thankfully before these sex scandals came out as unlike my parents I don't have to watch the Faith I profess to believe in defending the indefensible as the RCC has done to my parents) and I have none for it with politicians either. Especially politicians from a party that makes it's bones on being the family values defenders, the ones out to harshly get pedophiles, the ones that claim an ethical code which is puritan in nature when they time and time again get shown to be the lying hypocrites that they are on this matter.

What Foley did was bad enough, but what it looks like the House GOP leadership did for the sake of their political concerns (as opposed to criminal concerns and the protection of youth from pedophiles) is far worse, especially given the amount of gay bashing they have done and linking gay sex to pedophilia. This is as I said earlier a perfect wedge with which to fracture the GOP voter coalition and the Dems would have to be complete fools to ignore that fact, especially when the national security argument was just starting to work for the GOP in these midterms. This derails them from that as well as showing a form of corruption that is so easy to understand unlike the Abramoff scandals for the average voter. The GOP protected a pedophile and only decided it warranted action once it went public. Prior to that they covered it up and went out of their way to treat it as a political damage control issue instead of the child protection and legal issue it rightly deserved to be treated as. That is something anyone can understand and is rather hard to spin away from as the train wreck of competing GOP House leadership stories in the past 36 hours have demonstrated.

As for Chuckles, I find him amusing, and when he raises the sexual history bit he demonstrates both his desperation and his inability to respond to my arguments aside from smear and exaggeration. Works against him far more than myself. It does show how empty his tools/weapons kit is though that was the only way he could come at my comments. Chuckles hates me because he has never been able to get me to lose it with him and to give him the ability to claim I am nothing more than a wild eyed lunatic as he has done with others. Well that and my tedious writing style makes it very hard to quote me out of context without it being obvious as well as trying to pass himself off as me when he does his period act of stealing another's alias and putting up posts in their names that they clearly would not have going by their prior history.

Posted by: Scotian on October 1, 2006 at 1:13 PM | PERMALINK

The House Banking Scandal is an interesting point of comparison because it was different in almost every way.

It was trivial and brilliantly orchestrated by Newt Gingrich to cause maximum damage and managed to involve ultimately 350 House members.

The House Bank operated in a remarkably old fashioned way, sort of like the bursar's office of a gentleman's club, and had been carrying on like that for decades, if not centuries. House members had taken to seeing its idiosyncracies as a perk, not necessarily appreciating that some of their activity was technically illegal, and I use the term 'technically' here intentionally because I wonder if there ever was another institution anywhere on earth like the House bank.

Because the Democrats were in the majority more of them used the bank than did Republicans and Newt Gingrich saw it as an opportunity to tar a lot of them at once.


Rather than caving in to pressure from Democrats to minimize the extent of the scandal by limiting publicity only to the handful of House members who repeatedly broke the law, Gingrich took steps to ensure that the special counsel appointed to investigate the matter informed the voting public of the overdrafts and the identities of ALL the congressmen responsible[4].


That's the key point: Repbublicans making a mountain out of a mole hill, compared to their current trouble, trying to make a mole hill out of a mountain.

GOP leadership has known about Mark Foley's conduct for five years and has done nothing about it, at least one of them seeming to have accepted a $100,000 bribe to keep his mouth shut. How many people were in the loop on that and just sort of grunted and mumbled about it and loudly suggested he should just keep it off the reservation?

And consider it in the context of everything else they've done these last five years: they understand and can engage in no behaviour that is not rapacious.

Posted by: cld on October 2, 2006 at 2:08 AM | PERMALINK

If you liberals were not so stupid, you would not want to get into this discussion. As a former member of the Democrar Party (as were my paternal forebears, from prior to the Civil
War), I happened to know fairly wella the wealthy NY Congressman, Fred Richmond. Fred picked up a colored kid in front of Fred's residence, took him up for a little sex play; kid told his mother, she told the police, and they sent him or another kid (same race) with a back pack in which tere was a tape recorder. Freddy went for that kid, and was caught. He didn't lose his seat in the Demorcatic controlled Congress. No surprise there. It took a later conviction for several felonies (not sex related) to nail him and get him to resign and serve a modest term in prison.
There is no evidence whatsoever, or aven an allegation that Rep. Foley ever solicited or molested any boys, anywhere; only that he sent sexually suggestive emails. Not exactly a parallel with Fred Richmond, is it?????

Posted by: Richard Manning on October 2, 2006 at 10:15 AM | PERMALINK

If you liberals were not so stupid, you would not want to get into this discussion. As a former member of the Democrar Party (as were my paternal forebears, from prior to the Civil
War), I happened to know fairly wella the wealthy NY Congressman, Fred Richmond. Fred picked up a colored kid in front of Fred's residence, took him up for a little sex play; kid told his mother, she told the police, and they sent him or another kid (same race) with a back pack in which tere was a tape recorder. Freddy went for that kid, and was caught. He didn't lose his seat in the Demorcatic controlled Congress. No surprise there. It took a later conviction for several felonies (not sex related) to nail him and get him to resign and serve a modest term in prison.
There is no evidence whatsoever, or aven an allegation that Rep. Foley ever solicited or molested any boys, anywhere; only that he sent sexually suggestive emails. Not exactly a parallel with Fred Richmond, is it?????

Posted by: Richard Manning on October 2, 2006 at 10:28 AM | PERMALINK


manning..so you would have urged foley to stay in congress..

wow...

i guess the gop really is .. the big tent...


Posted by: laffin@richie on October 2, 2006 at 10:40 AM | PERMALINK

There is no evidence whatsoever, or aven an allegation that Rep. Foley ever solicited or molested any boys, anywhere; only that he sent sexually suggestive emails.

Poor Foley, he was such a victim in all this! No wonder the Republican leadership tried to cover the whole thing up for a year! Good on them, right Richard? They knew that the Democratic jackals would unfairly tar him as a sexual predator, and would try hard to make it seem like a hypocrisy that the guy who helped write legislation against online sex predation violated his own law.

Oh wait....

Posted by: Ferruge on October 2, 2006 at 10:49 AM | PERMALINK


I don't think anyone anticipiated....

Posted by: denny hastert on October 2, 2006 at 10:49 AM | PERMALINK


t1...i did see your list...

looks like the current number of 4-gop resignations within the last 12-months is only a record

for this century...

Posted by: mr.perspective on October 2, 2006 at 11:37 AM | PERMALINK




 

 

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