Republicans start hearing ABBA singing in their heads.

How much would you like to bet on the "Waterloo"
assertion?

Something about the phrase "poster child" just sounds wrong for this.

Democratic leadership should be calling for the immediate resignation of everyone involved...

This does involve systemic corruption, it's about who they are and the kind of people who find refuge in the Republican party.

Combine the incredible number of Republicans convicted of sex crimes with the number found guilty of ordinary crimes and you have a percentage so drastically higher than the normal population it's incredible even the mainstream media can ignore it.

They must be afraid people would think they're making it up.

Apart from the political issues here, I have a simple practical proposal.

Get rid of the whole congressional page program. Seriously, why do grown men need little kids around to get them their popcorn? If they need this kind of assistance, here's an innovative idea: hire local DC adults. And pay them. Why on earth should there be "pages" in the year 2006? At best, it's just an excuse for cronyism and high-school resume-padding. At the worst, well, meet Mr. Foley.

The congress can hire people to do these jobs, if these jobs are even neccesary at all. Heck, who knows, maybe being around people that have to work for a living might even lead to some better policies coming out of the Congress.

Lefties are right to jump on Foley with both feet as has nearly everybody on the Right.

And Rep. Hastert would be completely moronic if he knew and did nothing until under 7 weeks until the election.

But as to winning the election: You're all so cute when you think you'll win an election. Make sure not to look in your mirror and say "Diebold" three times in a row. You won't like what happens.

If this goes all the way to Hastert, we'll learn a great deal about the House Repubs if he retains his position for any length of time.

This looks like one more reason for them lose control of the HoR.

Brian,

Remember, this is the same group of Republicans who ousted Sen. Lott.

It's unlikely the Republicans would allow Hastert to stay.

I have to say, this scandal is a real page-turner . .

Combine the incredible number of Republicans convicted of sex crimes with the number found guilty of ordinary crimes and you have a percentage so drastically higher than the normal population it's incredible even the mainstream media can ignore it.

You would think so, but let's wait and see. How many of the MSM will give it the ole "Yeah, but there problems on both sides" treatment regardless of the relative amounts and regardless of who is in power.

It's sad that one of the reasons the MSM may jump on it is that it's sex and it will sell.

This should be a huge issue due to the fact that our young people must be protected. I hope that's the way it plays out.

Any Republican who doesn't think this isn't going to outrage people is out of touch. Let's review the basic facts. Repulican leadership knew a Republican member of Congress was assking for pictures and other personal information from a minor and it didn't strike them as worthy of action? What grown man is interested in pictures of 16 year old boys and wants to know what they want for birthdays? I can't wait for Nancy Grace to sink her teeth into Foley, Hastert, et al.

Greedy Old Perverts

Grand Old Pagers

Who talked to the parents?

Seems to me that the only parents who send their kids to be pages to their representatives are those who are likely to be BIG contributors. It's a way for their kid to get a great resume entry and will pave the way for their ivy league college entrance application.

That said, when this news was broken to them, what do you want to bet that it was couched this way:

"Let's please, for the good of the party, keep this quiet. The Representative will resign *after* the election, but if we break this in the news media, it will harm the Republican party, which we know you care deeply about."

In short, I will bet that there was plenty of this sort of "let's keep this quiet" patter from the GOP operatives who were sent to talk to the parents.

This is the exact same line that the Catholic church used with the pedophile cases. The parents were told it was an isolated incident, blah blah blah. Of course they believed it; these were priests telling them.

In this case, they weren't priests, but rather political operatives with cynical "let's hold onto power no matter what" agenda. That the parents agreed is understandable, but it is still smarmy.

If someone did that to my kid, I would work to bring them down NO MATTER WHAT damage it did to the Party. There's no shame in being the victim of a predator. Much more shame in trying to cover it up, IMO.

I wonder if they regret their decision to stay quiet? I'll bet they do.

I.M.,

I hope you are correct.

Remember Hastert's outraged defense of the sanctity pf William efferson's office? Maybe we are finding out more about his motives for that.

by playing the security card for the last 5 years, the gop has benefitted from the family vote--people whose allegiances don't necessarily reside with a political party but more within notions driven by fear for their children's well being.

i'd say those people are going to be turned off by this scandal and coverup big time. take away those votes and there could be a gop blood bath come november...

We finally found something the Republicans care about. Not graft, not the war in Iraq, not civil liberties, not fiscal responsibility. They care about young boys' butts.

I think that a lot of rats are leaving the sinking ship. Two years ago, ceteris paribus, none of them would have gotten excited about this stuff, except of course Foley. But this way they can ditch their leadership without seeming like Democrats, and without thinking about what they've done to the country.

The best thing about the scandal (from the Democratic Party POV) is that it's so easy! Instead of actually listening to the vast majority of voters, trying to decide what's in America's best interests, and concentrating on vital issues and articulating their pro-American positions on those issues, all they have to do is shovel the sleaze. Since this whole governing thing isn't working out for them, perhaps the Dems should just completely switch into full People Magazine/National Inquirer mode.

Feel free to use this new slogan I thought up for you: "The Democratic Party: for voters with Inquiring minds".

I think Dems should put all Repub candidates for Congress on the defensive by insisting that they make public pledges that if they are elected that they will demand an independent investigation of the scandal and oppose for leadership positions any current members who allowed this to fester for so long. LTE's, questions at candidate meetings, flyers, etc can all be used to force them to respond and put them on the spot.

That's Enquirer. Shame on you, Kevin.

"Fleecing Indians and Polynesians = Boring"?

OK. Important data point. Thanks for the bearings.

'It may finally be the GOP's Waterloo.'
--Kevin Drum

Not a chance. The Dems will roll over like a refugee boat and let the whole thing blow over. They don't have the gumption or the killer instinct to deliver the death blow to the Republican Party. Aiding and abetting a pedophile should be the end of fat boy Hastert and Boner from Ohio, but they will come out unscathed. Sad, but true.

Waterloo? Please, Bush owns the executive, the legislature and the courts. SCOTUS can take a hike. Diebold is commmitted to perpetuating a Republican majority. If you get too out of line there'll soon be laws on the books allowing you to be disappeared. My God, these people can lay waste to entire nations as they damn well please. You think a little sex scandal is going to detour them?

If my memory serves me correctly, there was this small investigation going on last year in November with a certain special prosecutor, and a party ravaged by charges of incompetence, and ongoing investigations into corruption, and a majority leader under indictment...

And one wonders why the House Leadership would try to keep this under wraps???

Just goes to show you that honesty is the best policy...if they would have done the right thing and taken the required steps...they would have at least kept the Congressional seat...

everything the Republican party gets out of this scandal will be well deserved...

I'm not usually one to put up a thread-hog of a long post, but this is on topic and it's just so handy to have the whole thing there in one spot. Your Family Va-yuze party at work. List and links to sources at armchairsubversive:

Republican Congressman Mark Foley abruptly resigned from Congress after "sexually explicit" emails surfaced showing him flirting with a 16-year old boy.

Republican executive Randall Casseday of the conservative Washington Times newspaper was arrested for soliciting sex from a 13-year old girl on the internet.

Republican chairman of the Oregon Christian Coalition Lou Beres confessed to molesting a 13-year old girl.

Republican County Constable Larry Dale Floyd was arrested on suspicion of soliciting sex with an 8-year old girl. Floyd has repeatedly won elections for Denton County, Texas, constable.

Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.

Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo was arrested for having sex with a 5-year old boy.

Republican petition drive manager Tom Randall pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 14, one of them the daughter of an associate in the petition business.

Republican County Chairman Armando Tebano was arrested for sexually molesting a 14-year-old girl.

Republican teacher and former city councilman John Collins pleaded guilty to sexually molesting 13 and 14 year old girls.

Republican campaign worker Mark Seidensticker is a convicted child molester.

Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.

Republican Mayor Tom Adams was arrested for distributing child pornography over the internet.

Republican Mayor John Gosek was arrested on charges of soliciting sex from two 15-year old girls.

Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.

Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.

Republican Committeeman John R. Curtain was charged with molesting a teenage boy and unlawful sexual contact with a minor.

Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.

Republican zoning supervisor, Boy Scout leader and Lutheran church president Dennis L. Rader pleaded guilty to performing a sexual act on an 11-year old girl he murdered.

Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.

Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.

Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.

Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.

Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.

Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer was sentenced to six years in prison for molesting two 8-year old girls, one of whom appeared in an anti-Gore television commercial.

Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.

Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.

Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.

Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.

Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.

Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.

Republican Judge Ronald C. Kline was placed under house arrest for child molestation and possession of child pornography.

Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.

Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.

Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.

Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.

Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.

Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.

Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.

Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.

Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.

Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.

Republican legislator Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).

Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was found guilty of molesting a 15-year old girl.

Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child.

Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.

Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.

Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.

Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.

Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.

Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.

Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.

Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a "good military man" and "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to
12 years in prison.

Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.

Republican campaign worker, police officer and self-proclaimed reverend Steve Aiken was convicted of having sex with two underage girls.

Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.
Republican president of the New York City Housing Development Corp. Russell Harding pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer.

Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was found guilty of raping a 15-year old girl. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.

Republican Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the rape of children in Iraqi prisons in order to humiliate their parents into providing information about the anti-American insurgency.

"it involves lots of documentary evidence"

I'd like to point out, again, that the penchant of modern lawyers, police, and judges to depend on 'documentary evidence' of child explotation is ludicrious and an excuse. It is an excuse for not doing due diligence...like the excuses we are hearing right now from the Bushites in the Congressional Dundership.

The real issue is that our society, for some reason, does not take the honest word of two honest witnesses as evidence and now requires that there be 'documentary evidence' for any and all crimes committed by the parties being had in power. That is really the problem with our society, an avoidence of responsibility in cases like the Foley Imbroglio.

But don't miss the point. The point is that when a crime has 'documentary evidence' it should really make the truly alert, truly diligent mind wonder what crime(s) have been committed that are not easily trailed by 'documentary evidence'.

Of course, in this case (and no doubt many others) there is 'documentary evidence'...but where is Justice and where is Leadership?

Let's be very careful about out triumphant chortling. This may be a good thing for the upcoming election, but is it really in our long term interest? I guarantee you that the war on gay rights will now be waged in terms of protecting children, and this will be Exhibit A. Homosexuality, pedophilia, same difference.

Unlike the Abramoff scandal, this one is going to get covered in People magazine and the National Inquirer. It may finally be the GOP's Waterloo.

Whatever it takes.

A good politician takes the hand dealt him and figures out how to win.

This is a gimmee. Try as they might, I don't think the Democrats can manage to grab defeat from the jaws of victory here.

Dan S,

As long as we're not on the same page...

I am reminded of the "House Banking Scandal" which involved no criminal activity and no waste of taxpayer dollars but which the GOP was able to use to help fuel the 94 Congressional takeover. I am also reminded of Newt Gringich commenting that Susan Smith's murder of her two young son's was an illustration of why people should vote republican in 94 (Smith was the stepdaughter of a prominent GOP and Christian Coalition leader who sexually molested her). Today I see that the GOP House Leadership has established a hotline where pages can report inappropriate behavior by GOP congressmen to the GOP leadership. I think that we need a new definition of chutzpah. The traditional one seems so quaint given the modern Republican Party.

Ruh Roh Raggy...

Rep. Reynolds' NRCC received $100,000 from disgraced Rep. Foley in July, after he learned about Foley's inappropriate emails with minors

As reported yesterday, Reynolds declined to report the inappropriate emails to authorities or act on them -- now we may know why

During the same period Rep. Tom Reynolds was keeping Mark Foley's inappropriate emails with minors secret, his campaign committee coffers received a $100,000 donation from Foley, it was revealed today. Reynolds has come under fire for knowing about the inappropriate emails for many months and covering it up to protect his colleague who has since been forced to resign.

Banner seen on Fox news Sunday AM:

"How will voters react if Democrats pounce on Foley scandal?"

Hmmm....I knew the Foley scandal was going to cause problems for the Democrats.

And-my two cents on the Page program - get rid of it. I see no constructive reason to keep it. It puts too many kids at risk in too many ways. It is pretty clear that the oversight of this program has completely failed. The kids would be better served by working on community projects instead of in the halls of power anyway.

How will voters react if Democrats pounce on Foley scandal?

Gee, I don't know, but let's see, shall we?

I see our favorite wacko is pretending that the decade long (and still going) history of the Republican Party's investigation into Clinton's sex life never happened. Your slogan is just a recycled one from the Clinton Presidency. The difference being that it was true about the Republicans.

The only downside to the Foley scandal is that it significantly raises the probability that we will bomb Iran before election day.

It looks like Hastert was lying when he said he had no knowledge of Foley's page pantsing. How can he survive the week with his position intact? Time to retire or at least head to the back benches.

The best thing about the scandal (from the Democratic Party POV) is that it's so easy! Instead of actually listening to the vast majority of voters, trying to decide what's in America's best interests, and concentrating on vital issues and articulating their pro-American positions on those issues, all they have to do is shovel the sleaze. Since this whole governing thing isn't working out for them, perhaps the Dems should just completely switch into full People Magazine/National Inquirer mode.

Oh boo hoo hoo. Two words: Monica Lewinsky. The GOP decided that listening to the vast majority of voters, trying to decide what's in America's best interests, and concentrating on vital issues and articulating their pro-American positions on those issues required, nay, demanded! a years long investigation of a blowjob.

And complaints about "shovelling the sleaze" from the party of Newt Gingrich, Ken Starr, Tom DeLay, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Denny Hastert, and Foley -- that's a bit rich, isn't it?

Foley was a bad boy, and my brother Jeb will prosecute him. Now lets drop the Foley issue -- because, as Congressman Hoekstra said today,

"The problem has been dealt with."

It's time to move on, and to address the critical issues that face our nation. Gas prices are coming down (not that we Republicans made them go up, we only control the downshift), and the stock market is almost back up to where it was under Clinton (not that we Republicans made it go down, we only control the upshift) and the Democrats are gay, er, um, ah, that is to say, ah, hmm, the way I see it, now look, see here, the Democrats are sadly lacking in the strength and the will to fight terrorism. Thank you for your support, and God Bless America. p.s. The FBI will unseal some anti-terrorism indictments next week. Those Arabs who run your local grungy convenience store are actually selling bongs and fake perfume to finance Islamofascism.

Hell, if the Republicans had been as concerned with Osama bin Laden as they were with Bill Clinton we might not have had a 9/11. But then we all know the Republicans only care about national security as an election issue. Letting 3000 people die was a small price to win the elections.

The media will let the GOP walk. We are now in day 2 of this--I'll see you and blog back in on status in 5 days, Kevin.

The story will die, especially in an election year.

Sure, legs. But remember: Republican voters will continue to vote for corruption, incompetence, and sleaze because they view Democrats (to the left of Zell Miller) as godless and treasonous, and in their eyes that is worse. It could come out that George W Bush has been keeping fifteen year old Thai girls as sex slaves in the basement of the White House and 22% of the American people would still say he was doing a good job.

The Democrats still have failed to convey a national message on national security (or frankly even Iraq), and few (with the exception of most notably Hillary Clinton) have struck the right balance between supporting political and economic reform in the Arab-Muslim world as the long-term solution to the threat of radical Islamist terrorism, and criticizing this administration for its prosecution of the Iraq War as well as not doing enough to realize that long-term solution.

Democrats are also troubled by poor candidates (in the charismatic and financial sense), gerrymandering, tone deafness in certain places (especially on illegal immigration; Democrats don't need to listen to Mickey Kaus nationally, but some in red and swing districts do), spinlessness in other races (there are districts and even states [Ohio] where a dose of economic populism would go a long way [I've been saying for months that the rural areas would be up for grabs in coming years because of bad economic conditions, and that is starting to happen]), and turnout (which favors Republicans right now in midterms; those white collar Independents who are trending Democratic just don't come out in large numbers for off-year elections).

But presidential candidates determine a party's platform and image, and the Democrats will get a boost from having our national centrist bellweather Mrs. Clinton at the head of their ticket. I wouldn't expect much help (more than the symbolic variety) down the ballot though. Like her husband she just doesn't care very much who controls Congress. It will be up to Democrats running for House and Senate seats to win their own races in 2008. We may not see a Democratic House or Senate until 2010 or later. Too many of them just don't get it yet.

Stefan, you said "Two words: Monica Lewinsky."

Damn straight. Let's just pretend that the shoe was on the other foot for a sec, and that the rep in question was a democrat.

I'm so sure the GOP would take the high road...choke.

No, if it had been reversed you bet your ass the crawling banners on Fox News would be: democrats, are they all gropers?

there is nothing complicated about the Abramoff and Cunningham scandals: they're about conventional corruption, power politics, and ripping off the public blind - pretty standard fare. The fact that it covers virtually the entire republican Washington establishment and has nothing on democrats is what makes it so difficult for the corporate media to publish to stay on.

Sex scandal, now that's something even the bought and paid-for corporate media can't even help out the republicans - its too juicey for them to ignore. The best they'll be able to do to deflect outrage at the republicans is to retread Clinton - Lewinsky stories. Queue republican slime sycophant brit hume.

Latest spin, as seen on Fox News Channel:

It's all ABC's fault (and maybe the fault of some of those other liberal news media organizations, too) for not informing Hastert sooner. If only Hastert had been able to see the problem sooner, he would have forced Foley to resign sooner. Speaker Hastert is safeguarding the USA's young people, now, and couldn't have done anything sooner about the emails, because, according to [disgraced] former Speaker Newt Gingrich, the liberal media would have accused Hastert of "gay-bashing."

In other words, we'd better hold our noses and shut our eyes and stand by Hastert, because the alternative is worse than Hastert. If Pelosi becomes speaker, she'll let slip the gay dogs! She will unloose them and they will wrap you round!

The folks over at freerepublic are frothing at the media for even covering the story after Foley's resignation. He's gone! End of story! (They wish. Foley will be prosecuted under the statute he sponsored.)

Hastert will continue making excuses right till after election day, when he will no longer be speaker.

I ageee that the rightwing media will engage in Stalinist reality inversions in order to spin the story. It doesn't matter if Democrats are weak and afraid. Everyone knows the story and it's a to-high-heaven stinker. For Republicans, this one is Code Red because we just went through John Mark Karr. Moreover, the Michael Jackson grotesquerie is a permanent feature of our popular culture. Now we have Republican leaders covering up for a pedophile. Democrats don't need to pounce. Just keep feeding the Enquirer, and the story will race faster than a Kenyan to the reptilian cortices of American parents.

Colbert interviewed some congressional challenger several weeks ago. Colbert offered to smear the incumbent republican (Saxton?) as a pedophile; the challenger declined to back the accusation. Turns out that Colbert was close to being right. Who knew.

"How will voters react if Democrats pounce on Foley scandal?"

Hmmm....I knew the Foley scandal was going to cause problems for the Democrats. --Karin

Feed it into the MSM news processor and out pops "Bad news for Dems!" But then it's a very simple circuit in there. Everything that goes in, comes out "Bad news for Dems!"

Can we say "concern troll?" I knew we could.

Violence? Nah, almost never a scandal. Like the unnecessary violent act committed against a sovereign state in violation of our laws as well as international laws. Scandal? No.

But a politician even *looking* for some nookie (or in this case, some corn-holy - LOL), now THAT'S enough to bring down the entire government, Democrat or Republican. You gotta wonder sometimes.

Meanwhile, the porn industry in America reaps record profits. 'Cause we're all so righteous, you see.

The Foley story may well be a political hit by CREW. The e-mails seen by Hastert had no sexual content. The stuff put out by Brian Ross and ABC were IM messages. How do you get copies of those except from the recipient ? The kid was apparently 16 and there may be no crime. Foley is a pervert but this smells of a hit job just before the election. Why didn't the ABC people send these to Hastert before leaking them ? Nice hit job but I think it will be exposed as such by the election. They should have waited until the end of October for the surprise so there would be no time to find Soros fingerprints on it.

This scandal may not expose systemic corruption the way the Abramoff scandal did, but it has plenty of legs. It involves sex, it involves coverups, it involves powerful players turning on each other to protect their own skins, and it involves lots of documentary evidence.

And 51 comments later, nobody has noticed that this list leaves off the word "gay"? As a feminist friend of mine pointed out, any previous abuse of girls by priests was never a huge scandal, but men with boys can bring down half the Church. Anyway, talk about Republicans hoist by their own petard.

The GOP and is starting to resemble the Catholic Church more and more with every passing day...

Arrest Foley (R-Child Predator) NOW and waterboard him till he confesses the truth.

Or is there something wrong with that?

This scandal will probably mean an extra seat in the HoR for the dems. The right-wing base believes in the Greedy Old Perverts until their own children are drafted and sent to fight over there so we can molest boys over here. And then only some of the wingnuts may reconsider the road they are being lead down.

What did you guys expect?

If a Democratic President gets away with criminal sexual activity in the White House, congressmen were bound to follow suit.

Just goes to show the extent of moral and cultural debasement wrought on our nation by eight years of Democratic rule. It will take much more than six or eight years of rule by morally upright ethnically pure people like George W. Bush to undo the damage done by the anything goes philosophy of the Democratic hippies.

Jay fails to define the "criminal sexual activity in the White House." No surprise I guess, since none happened.

In case you missed it, "jay"

STOP REPUBLICAN PEDOPHILIA

Republican Congressman Mark Foley abruptly resigned from Congress after "sexually explicit" emails surfaced showing him flirting with a 16-year old boy.

Republican executive Randall Casseday of the conservative Washington Times newspaper was arrested for soliciting sex from a 13-year old girl on the internet.

Republican chairman of the Oregon Christian Coalition Lou Beres confessed to molesting a 13-year old girl.

Republican County Constable Larry Dale Floyd was arrested on suspicion of soliciting sex with an 8-year old girl. Floyd has repeatedly won elections for Denton County, Texas, constable.

Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.

Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo was arrested for having sex with a 5-year old boy.

Republican petition drive manager Tom Randall pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 14, one of them the daughter of an associate in the petition business.

Republican County Chairman Armando Tebano was arrested for sexually molesting a 14-year-old girl.

Republican teacher and former city councilman John Collins pleaded guilty to sexually molesting 13 and 14 year old girls.

Republican campaign worker Mark Seidensticker is a convicted child molester.

Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.

Republican Mayor Tom Adams was arrested for distributing child pornography over the internet.

Republican Mayor John Gosek was arrested on charges of soliciting sex from two 15-year old girls.

Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.

Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.

Republican Committeeman John R. Curtain was charged with molesting a teenage boy and unlawful sexual contact with a minor.

Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.

Republican zoning supervisor, Boy Scout leader and Lutheran church president Dennis L. Rader pleaded guilty to performing a sexual act on an 11-year old girl he murdered.

Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.

Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.

Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.

Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.

Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.

Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer was sentenced to six years in prison for molesting two 8-year old girls, one of whom appeared in an anti-Gore television commercial.

Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.

Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.

Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.

Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.

Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.

Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.

Republican Judge Ronald C. Kline was placed under house arrest for child molestation and possession of child pornography.

Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.

Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.

Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.

Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.

Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.

Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.

Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.

Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.

Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.

Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.

Republican legislator Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).

Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was found guilty of molesting a 15-year old girl.

Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child.

Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.

Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.

Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.

Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.

Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.

Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.

Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.

Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a "good military man" and "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to
12 years in prison.

Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.

Republican campaign worker, police officer and self-proclaimed reverend Steve Aiken was convicted of having sex with two underage girls.

Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.
Republican president of the New York City Housing Development Corp. Russell Harding pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer.

Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was found guilty of raping a 15-year old girl. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.

Republican Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the rape of children in Iraqi prisons in order to humiliate their parents into providing information about the anti-American insurgency.

http://www.armchairsubversive.com/

Brings to mind the old saw about an invulnerable politician unless found in bed with a dead girl or live boy.

The live boy part is going to push a lot of fundamentalist buttons.

WTF was Hastert thinking? He could have easily leaned on Foley to resign for some cooked up reason, and got Jeb to appoint damned near any rethug to the job. Not only that, they let him run again?

There isn't any part of being a Republican that isn't a medical problem or a criminal problem.

Demand that Republican candidates swear an oath not to rape our children. One way or another that would eliminate the entire Republican agenda.

Found at tpm,

"It's vile. It's more sad than anything else, to see someone with such potential throw it all down the drain because of a sexual addiction."
--Rep. Mark Foley (R-FL), commenting on President Clinton, following release of the Starr Report, September 12, 1998.

DrBB -
Good post. I'd really like to see documentation backing all that up. Or rather, I'd really like to show that to my "moral values" Republican buddy.

Anyway - no, I don't give a fuck about the 16 year old page boys.

I want my $300 Billion back, I want my Habeus Corpus back.

(Frankly - Democrats; instead of attacking Republicans for the Foley debacle, should purge their party of the assholes who broke ranks on Clinton. The last 6 years are THEIR fault).

Clinton got a blow-job from a willing 21 year-old? Shit, thats makes me so horny, I feel like slipping the shorts off a sixteen year-old boy as soon as I finish working on legislstion to protect minors from sexual predators.

Hey Jay - this is Schadenfreude at its best.

Deal with it.

Why do Democrats hate gays?

苗条身材
形体塑身
运动健身
科学瘦身
瘦身
美体
减肥
瘦身，减肥，美体
瘦身网
减肥方法
身体局部减肥
肥胖，减肥
减肥实战
如何减肥
减肥茶
减肥食谱
减肥药品
运动减肥
明星减肥
快速减肥
时尚减肥
针灸减肥

瘦身网
减肥方法
身体局部减肥
肥胖，减肥
减肥实战
如何减肥
减肥茶
减肥食谱
减肥药品
运动减肥
明星减肥
快速减肥
时尚减肥
针灸减肥

瘦身网
减肥方法
身体局部减肥
肥胖，减肥
减肥实战
如何减肥
减肥茶
减肥食谱
减肥药品
运动减肥
明星减肥
快速减肥
时尚减肥
针灸减肥
瘦身，减肥，美体

Funny thing is this is the same Republicans who spent 140 hours investigating Bill Clinton's Christmas card list. I'm not kidding. They even started an investigation into his cat. If you put it in a movie, no one would believe it.

Not one investigation into what's gone wrong with the war in Iraq, the $9 billion dollars missing in Iraq, why a CIA agent's name was leaked, why Osama bin Laden hasn't been caught or any of the corruption scandals. But they spent 140 hours on the Clinton Christmas list (it turns out they were just Christmas cards, in case you were wondering). They're not even trying to appear fair. They think there's nothing you won't let them do. They're in charge and they can get away with anything.

This isn't even about a sex scandal, per se. This is about a Republican Party so corrupt there's nothing they wouldn't cover up to protect their own. If that means your money is misspent or stolen, fine. If that means some Congressmen commit illegal acts to get rich off your dime, fine. Apparently, it also means if your kids are exposed to a sexual predator while they are supposed to be learning about our government, even that's fine.

Ricky G-

Governors don't appoint replacements for resigned House members.

Foley seems to be something of a "made man" in this cabal; there are suggestions that he was too high up, knows too much (about the 2000 recount in which he was a central figure? about other gays in the GOP?) to be leaned on too heavily. Plus this gang thinks it is above outside review, that they answer only to themselves. Also, this came at a time with issues swirling around Delay and early stages of Cunningham and Ney - the decision was likely made that they didn't need another open scandal.

Jay - Dems are against adult predatory behavior against minors - whether they are female (where most of this occurs) or male. Actions between consenting adults of course are fine. That's an obvious point to anyone not totally into Bush worship.

减肥
瘦身网
减肥方法
身体局部减肥
肥胖，减肥
减肥实战
如何减肥
减肥茶
减肥食谱
减肥药品
运动减肥
明星减肥
快速减肥
时尚减肥
针灸减肥
瘦身网
减肥方法
身体局部减肥
肥胖，减肥
减肥实战
如何减肥
减肥茶
减肥食谱
减肥药品
运动减肥
明星减肥
快速减肥
时尚减肥
针灸减肥
减肥日记

The reason this won't go away is that 2006 is a bunch of local elections. Even if the MSM try to bury it, do you think there's a single Dem Congressional challenger who's not going to hammer their opponent with it?
Not to mention this'll be all Leno and Letterman will be talking about through 2009.
Not only is this scandal perfectly placed for the election (far enough away to give it a chance to grow but not far enough away to be forgotten--even if we bomb Iran) but it's perfectly targeted (since Bush is not up for reelection but Congress is.)
Makes you wonder that they really shouldn't have pissed the CIA off, doesn't it?

If you guys want to fight on the issue of sexual escapades, bring it on. OK Thomas1, ex-dem, first of all, I don't consider propositioning of a 16 year-old boy a sexual escapade. I would consider it a crime. As an ex-republican, I thought you must know that!

This is story about the Christian righties and certainly it has made these groups look a lot less congenial, and it's all because of obvious gross hypocrisy.

I mean, what with all the cold indifference to thousand of dead Iraq civilians, outright lies and lets face it, the Bush administrations is wholly plagued by one act of corruption right after another, gross government spending and utter lack of sympathy for human rights.

It was totally okay for Foley to hit on a male intern but ONLY as long as it isn't public and because the religious right has no more solemnity
than the Catholic Church did, hiding its own chronicles of pedophile behavior.

"As an ex-Democrat I must advise you that it will be a grave mistake."

Oh, thank you for your CONCERN, troll. As an ex-Republican, I can tell you that the party of Lincoln should be renamed the National Sociopath Party.

How many more times are idiots going to reprint that stupid list? Take a list of all such people remotely involved in politics, strip off all the Democrats, and bingo! Anybody think they're fooling anyone?

"Republican County Constable?" Good grief.

At least you're saved from having to deal with the issues again.

Funny how the deluded repigs think that just saying good things makes you a good person.

There is a profound difference between concept and capacity. Or to put it biblically, "By their fruits you shall know them".

It bears repeating-the repug slogan for 06 "No childs behind left behind".

I'm with kokblok, 12:54.

Get rid of the whole congressional page program. Seriously, why do grown men need little kids around to get them their popcorn? If they need this kind of assistance, here's an innovative idea: hire local DC adults. And pay them. Why on earth should there be "pages" in the year 2006? At best, it's just an excuse for cronyism and high-school resume-padding. At the worst, well, meet Mr. Foley.

At the worst, well, meet Mr. Foley

It's not only sex that these poor kids are losing their innocence about. Just think how cynical they'll be about politics after spending 3 months in the GOP controlled house.

Hey Carlton, Was the all that talk about God and moral values for real or just a dream I had? The issues? You mean 911 and Iraq? You mean healthcare and pensions? Not only are you fucked on the issues, your claim to a moral higher ground is a joke. OK, i forgot I guess you are protecting unborn stem cells. Christ Allmighty!!!

The kid was apparently 16 and there may be no crime. Foley is a pervert but this smells of a hit job just before the election. Why didn't the ABC people send these to Hastert before leaking them ? Nice hit job but I think it will be exposed as such by the election. They should have waited until the end of October for the surprise so there would be no time to find Soros fingerprints on it.

I love the smell of GOP fear-sweat in the morning. Smells like... victory.

And to follow on from an earlier part of the discussion: GOP: Grotesque Oily Pederasts.

As with most Democratic attacks, they count on partial information and half truths carrying the day.

From: Speaker's Media Release
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 5:36 PM
Subject: INTERNAL REVIEW OF CONTACTS WITH THE OFFICE OF THE SPEAKER REGARDING THE CONGRESSMAN MARK FOLEY MATTER

September 30, 2006 Ron Bonjean or Lisa C. Miller

On Friday, September 29, the Speaker directed his Chief of Staff and Outside Counsel to conduct an internal review to determine the facts and circumstances surrounding contact with the Office of the Speaker regarding the Congressman Mark Foley matter. The following is their preliminary report.

Email Exchange Between Congressman Foley and a Constituent of Congressman Alexander

In the fall of 2005 Tim Kennedy, a staff assistant in the Speaker’s Office, received a telephone call from Congressman Rodney Alexander’s Chief of Staff who indicated that he had an email exchange between Congressman Foley and a former House page. He did not reveal the specific text of the email but expressed that he and Congressman Alexander were concerned about it.

Tim Kennedy immediately discussed the matter with his supervisor, Mike Stokke, Speaker Hastert’s Deputy Chief of Staff. Stokke directed Kennedy to ask Ted Van Der Meid, the Speaker’s in house Counsel, who the proper person was for Congressman Alexander to report a problem related to a former page. Ted Van Der Meid told Kennedy it was the Clerk of the House who should be notified as the responsible House Officer for the page program. Later that day Stokke met with Congressman Alexander’s Chief of Staff. Once again the specific content of the email was not discussed. Stokke called the Clerk and asked him to come to the Speaker’s Office so that he could put him together with Congressman Alexander’s Chief of Staff. The Clerk and Congressman Alexander’s Chief of Staff then went to the Clerk’s Office to discuss the matter.

The Clerk asked to see the text of the email. Congressman Alexander’s office declined citing the fact that the family wished to maintain as much privacy as possible and simply wanted the contact to stop. The Clerk asked if the email exchange was of a sexual nature and was assured it was not. Congressman Alexander’s Chief of Staff characterized the email exchange as over-friendly.

The Clerk then contacted Congressman Shimkus, the Chairman of the Page Board to request an immediate meeting. It appears he also notified Van Der Meid that he had received the complaint and was taking action. This is entirely consistent with what he would normally expect to occur as he was the Speaker’s Office liaison with the Clerk’s Office.

The Clerk and Congressman Shimkus met and then immediately met with Foley to discuss the matter. They asked Foley about the email. Congressman Shimkus and the Clerk made it clear that to avoid even the appearance of impropriety and at the request of the parents, Congressman Foley was to immediately cease any communication with the young man.

The Clerk recalls that later that day he encountered Van Der Meid on the House floor and reported to him that he and Shimkus personally had spoken to Foley and had taken corrective action.

Mindful of the sensitivity to the parent’s wishes to protect their child’s privacy and believing that they had promptly reported what they knew to the proper authorities Kennedy, Van Der Meid and Stokke did not discuss the matter with others in the Speaker’s Office.

Congressman Tom Reynolds in a statement issued today indicates that many months later, in the spring of 2006, he was approached by Congressman Alexander who mentioned the Foley issue from the previous fall. During a meeting with the Speaker he says he noted the issue which had been raised by Alexander and told the Speaker that an investigation was conducted by the Clerk of the House and Shimkus. While the Speaker does not explicitly recall this conversation, he has no reason to dispute Congressman Reynold’s recollection that he reported to him on the problem and its resolution.

Sexually Explicit Instant Message Transcript

No one in the Speaker’s Office was made aware of the sexually explicit text messages which press reports suggest had been directed to another individual until they were revealed in the press and on the internet this week. In fact, no one was ever made aware of any sexually explicit email or text messages at any time.

This is not a defense of Foley, who's a perv, and good riddance. But the accusations made about the entire Republican leadership are without foundation. How many people are aware that nobody in the Republican party knew about the IM messages until last week, or that these messages were directed to a completely different person (still underage at 17) than the 16-year-old in the e-mails?

Hey, Carlton,

Find a comparable list of Democrats.

You let some slobering horn dog near my 16 year old and there'll be all kinds of crime.

But apparently you righties think even your children are disposable for the greater good of the party. What a group of nice Germans you are. Kind of like Magda Goebbels I'd say.

Found at Atrios,

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2006_10_01_atrios_archive.html#115972303770307560

From the New York State Democratic Committee:

Rep. Reynolds' NRCC received $100,000 from disgraced Rep. Foley in July, after he learned about Foley's inappropriate emails with minors

As reported yesterday, Reynolds declined to report the inappropriate emails to authorities or act on them -- now we may know why

During the same period Rep. Tom Reynolds was keeping Mark Foley's inappropriate emails with minors secret, his campaign committee coffers received a $100,000 donation from Foley, it was revealed today. Reynolds has come under fire for knowing about the inappropriate emails for many months and covering it up to protect his colleague who has since been forced to resign.

-Atrios 1:15 PM

All this talk about a pedophile congressman. Did it occur to nobody that the sex might have been consented-to?

Where are the mighty "gays are just fine" liberals when its not one of their own?

Oh, and didn't a recent Democrat president also molest a young person in his office?

That wasn't gay sex, so it was ok.

Lying hypocrite democrats.

Al, you schmuck. "Underage" has an exact definition.

Al--try to keep up, m'kay? "Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006."

It's also harassment,

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001648.php

It's amusing as hell that the only "defense" they have is to imagine the possibility that Dems may have done the same thing. Defending ugly facts with fantasy is entertaining to say the least.

Reynolds is toast because of that donation. That clearly looks like hush money.

The age of consent in DC is 16. But in a marvelous irony, as well as a great example of being hoist on one's own petard (since Foley helped write the bill) -

if he had consensual sex with a 16 or 17 year old in DC (of which there is no evidence, we're talking hypothetical here), it would not be a felony.

BUT if he solicited sex or otherwise engaged in predatory sexual behavior with a 16 or 17 yo over the internet, it is a crime.

This is apart from this being the same thing as a 52 year old teacher having similar contact with a student of 16.

AI is clearly heading into panic mode - isn't it sweet?

Oh yeah, Denny's press release answers it. Forgot the half dozen contradictions already out there in the hasty attempt to paper over this thing as fast as possible. Denny issued a press release. Well that takes care of that.

Do your brains really work this way? Amazing. But listen, it's one thing for you to be a cultist authoritarian who thinks the word of a corrupt old gasbag like Hastert ranks with that of the baby Jesus himself. Quite another to assume everyone else's synapses have been surrendered to the fuhrerprinzip.

elmendorf: Agreed that the document is not a defense of Foley, there is no defense. That document is a media release drafted by the speaker's lawyers and advisors. I think it is way to early to disregard attacks on certain repub leaders.

More details from this website.

This entire attack on the Republican leadership is dependent on the Democrats selling the lie that the IM messages and the e-mails are the same thing, that the explicit IMs to some unknown person were known about for many months, and on the public not paying close enough attention to the facts.

'If a Democratic President gets away with criminal sexual activity in the White House, congressmen were bound to follow suit.'
--jay

It must be depressing to be so wrong so often. Having consensual sexual activity, oral or otherwise, with a consenting female who is the age of majority is not illegal, jay.

Al's post (real or bogus) above at 4:32 p.m. is so retarded that it isn't really worth typing a response. Suffice it to say, conservatives apparently are unable to differentiate between sex between consenting adults and adults preying on children. Which is why voters should VOTE EVERY GODDAMN REPUBLICAN OUT OF OFFICE IN NOVEMBER - THE FUCKIN' PERVERTS!!!!

Relying "on the public not paying close enough attention to the facts"? Oh dear me. Oh my stars and garters, not that. Can you imagine any party so low and indelicate as to rely on the public not paying close attention to the facts? Mercy! I can't think of another instance of such a thing! Not a single one!

And worst of all, Foley was being blackmailed by the thuggish Republican leadership. THAT is the story. Not only did they seek to cover-up his crime, they sought to profit from it. Several bills were compromised by "pressuring" him, at leat $100K was extorted from him.

He can get some semblance of dignity back by becoming state's evidence against the Florida 2000 and 2004 federal elections, and helpung to prosecute Hastert, Boehner, and other senior Republicans. The crime family has had a key captain compromised.

Now, let's vote Democrat, win Congress, get the Hell out of Iraq, rejoin the world community, reinstate Habeas Corpus and the Geneva Conventions, solve some pervasive problems with deficits and health care, and not look back.

The great problem of our day is Republicanism, and it is curable. VOTE.

Elemendorf: visited your website and did some reading. I'm not convinced there isn't some kind of cover-up or lack of leadership from big denny. But hey, i got a link to recieve Ann coulters newsletter free, now that ought to be some good factual material....

'It's amusing as hell that the only "defense" they have is to imagine the possibility that Dems may have done the same thing. Defending ugly facts with fantasy is entertaining to say the least.'
--Mrs. Peel

You are just landing blow after blow on the chin of these hapless conservative dittoheads that infest this site! Great work. By the way, Mrs. Peel, I just love you in your leather suit. Gr-r-r-r-r-r-……

Interesting speculation on where the Foley Instant Message log came from,

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2006/09/pagegate-where-did-im-log-come-from.html

Let us consider an historical parallel. Remember those humiliating clandestine tape recordings of Prince Charles and Princess Diana?When those private telephone conversations dropped into the British media, few asked about their origins. The tapes simply appeared, like Aphrodite springing forth from the head of Zeus. Some believe that MI5 or 6 made the recordings, which they released to the press for reasons best known to themselves.

As fast as this is developing I think we'll know soon enough in any event.

I just got here - I've been out at Arrowhead Stadium, where my husbands beloved Chiefs just shut out the S.F. 49ers, 41-zip.

It is a good day to be a Democrat in Kansas City with a son who tends bar in the Skyboxes, lemme tell ya!

Not the GOP's Waterloo, but the GOP version of the Monica Lewinsky scandal, with a much greater "ewww" factor. The Lewinsky thing was little more than a sexual peccadillo, some naughtiness in the office. The GOP version is much worse: more revolting, and in fact a crime.

The term Just Desserts comes to mind...

It is a good day to be a Democrat in Kansas City with a son who tends bar in the Skyboxes, lemme tell ya!
Posted by: Global Citizen

GC ... you know I love and respect you. I'm extremely impressed with your backstory, and the current avidity with which you're pursuing grad school. I think your area of study, and likely your contributions to it, will be important to the biomed field.

... but I may have to go medieval on your ass when it comes to bashing the Niners. ... We're just in a rebuilding year ... possibly a rebuilding decade?

Reforming our country under the moral leadership of Republicans is hard, stressful work, demanding their full attention 24/7. Is it any wonder that our conservative lawmakers are plagued with sleeping problems? We should consider it a blessing from God that we now have the technological means to bring much-needed, uh, "release" to them while making it possible for young interns to lend a hand in the behind-closed-doors activities of our government.

Just to clarify:

Clinton--consentual affair with another adult.

Foley--sexual harassment of a minor.

In conservatard land, it's the exact same thing!

Ahhh, I love the smell of Republican desperation.

You know, many people of late think of the Republicans as an army of disciplined ideologues grinding away at a calculated coup of America’s liberal democracy. No doubt there is truth in this, but I have come to think of them as true believers, incompetents, men on the make, rogues, rent-seekers, petty thugs and parasites who suck the productive economy and the government, including the military, dry.

Michael Lind in his Made in Texas pushed the thesis that southern Republicans come from a plantation culture where aristocratic privileged and property holding mixed with corruption, brutality and herrenvolk nationalism. A culture that has more in common with the banana republics of the Caribbean than with the law-bound protestant work ethic societies of Northern Europe. I don’t know how true this characterization is but from the fancied emergency of the War on Terror, to Abramoff, Katrina, to the rape of Iraq and now the predation of children, I think there is something to it. Something lawless, privileged, boorish, and cruel.

Certainly they are the very opposite of statesmen. I am sure for many of them, certainly Bush, habeas corpus is just some kind of funny sounding inconvenience. Maybe Cheney really thinks that Jefferson and boys wanted the executive to be an elected king. It probably just 'makes sense'. Woodward’s book and Rajiv Chandrasekaran’s Imperial Life in the Emerald City: Inside Iraq's Green Zone underscores this impression.

Nads - C'mon - if the show was on the other foot...

And by the way - how many "rebuilding years" did the Griefs, er, Chiefs subject us loyal fans to under Marty "Never-Throw-the-Ball" Shchottenheimer?

Of course, the rest of the teams got together and said "How do we stop the KC offense?" and their answer was "Send them Herm Edwards." (*rimshot)

you bastards took montana, beat US with him, and then took the playoffs. It remains a sore point ... even a decade later.

Yeah, but we also got Bono and Grback.

McDonalds had a commercial a few years ago, "Elvisize it" instead of "supersize it."

Being the smartass I am, I said what are they going to do? bag it up, drop back and throw it over the customers head?

Interesting to see the logical twisting going on here with regard to the "Technically Not Illegal" defense, as with Libby and Rove.

For idiots who seem to have no regard for the Rule of Law, they certainly like to hide behind it.

And we need more than a Montana at the end of his career to compensate for those two jokers...

Amen, OBF. Squealing like little piggies and hiding under the nearest petticoat.

If the facts in the post below are true, and they probably are, they are fair game to establish that there was not only tolerance, but acceptance of male homosexuality in daily contact by both Reynolds and Foley in a public, if not notorious, way. Not a bad thing, just the evidentiary fact, maybe even a good thing overall. This doesn’t go to establish anyone but Fordom’s sexual preference. However, Reynolds ought not be allowed to claim the normal conservative position against homosexuality as a defense against his acceptance Foley’s under-aged, male homosexual conduct over time. He cant’ say he was oblivious to the meaning of Foley’s conduct with the young page. He can’t say: “I didn’t know; I didn’t understand the homosexual implications at the time.” In Karl Rove’s words, “This Is Fair Game.” The issue isn’t homosexuality; it’s hypocrisy, which equals corruption. The Democrats need to develop a national “October Surprise” of their own on the Republicans: Throw the corrupt, child-molesting Republican Leaders Out.” Every Republican House candidate is vulnerable to the charge that he was supporting a corrupt leadership of his party. No one likes hypocrisy or being subject to it. No one has to accept it from public leaders.

This is where Demos need to coordinate a national campaign of one single tv spot to be distributed to all House candidates, full of headlines about the scandal and who knew what, Hastert, Reynolds, Boehner, Shimkus, Trandahl, et al., with pictures and titles, allowing each candidate to add his or her local tag at the end:

“My opponent, John Black, was supporting the corrupt Republican house leadership when they covered up a child molestation by one of their members. Washington deserves better. Vote for real family values, vote for Democrat Bill White.”

Then, when those same leaders return to the next term, they can be treated to the same respect they gave Democrat leader Clinton about his sexual indiscretions, starting with impeachment from the House.

I wish the Demos had the spine. Rove and Newt Gingrich would have to respond with grudging respect for the audacity. Either one would have done it if the ball had rolled their way.

Plus, I’d be real interested in Fordom’s testimony in any investigation, if the right questions were asked.

Jack

From http://blogs.nydailynews.com/dailypolitics/archives/2006/09/reynolds_knew_b.php

Posted by: Iyamahonky at October 1, 2006 03:06 PM

None of this happened in a vacuum. Foley's sexuality was no secret, nor was his "friendliness" toward pages.

The assumption, of course, among the Republican leadership was they'd be able to keep this under wraps. The bottom line is Hastert, who has his own alleged history of improper conduct with boys (when he was a wrestling coach), Boehner, Reynolds and Shimkus, with the help of former House clerk Trandahl, conspired to cover this up.

It's also worth noting that cash wasn't the only changing hands between Foley and Reynolds. Reynold's chief of staff, Kirk Fordham, who is openly gay, used to be Foley's chief of staff and campaign manager.

"The Republican leadership knew this was going on, and they had to make a choice," Mahoney said. "They had to do what was right for the children ... or they could try to hold on to a seat. And they decided to try to hold on to a seat."

Mike K: The Foley story may well be a political hit by CREW. The e-mails seen by Hastert had no sexual content. The stuff put out by Brian Ross and ABC were IM messages. How do you get copies of those except from the recipient ? The kid was apparently 16 and there may be no crime. Foley is a pervert but this smells of a hit job just before the election. Why didn't the ABC people send these to Hastert before leaking them ? Nice hit job but I think it will be exposed as such by the election. They should have waited until the end of October for the surprise so there would be no time to find Soros fingerprints on it.

So, let us get this straight: it is the presses duty, according to Mike K, to protect the GOP by giving them a chance to sweep it under the rug and a heads up so they can start their spin.

And what would Mike K say if CBS had given the Dems a heads up on a burgeoning scandal against a Dem and the Dem leadership?

A conspiracy by CBS and the liberal news media to help the Dems.

You support a party, the GOP, that protects pedophiles, Mike K.

That's all we need to know about you . . . or the GOP.

Foley wrote the fucking law he violated. Internet predation of any child under 18 is a federal offense. Doesn't matter where the computer is located. Under 18, off limits. Period. If you think that is wrong, take it up with the author of the bill.

"Hoisted on ones own pettard" just got a whole new meaning indeed.

Well, gee, Mike K, I guess the GOP didn't need a heads up from the media because they knew for FIVE YEARS, but simply wanted to protect and abet a pedophile because they care more about holding on to power than our children . . .

ABC, which has led the way on the Rep. Mark Foley story, now reporting that GOP congressional staff was warning pages about Foley five years ago.

You are pathetic beyond belief, willing not just to lie about liberals but to tolerate not only a pedophile but those who protect and abet pedophiles, just to keep a corrupt, immoral, and incompetent party in power just so you can keep the cash flowing to your bank account, again, at the expense of our children.

Hey, why don't you just invest in kiddie porn?

After all, as long as the Republicans are in power, you'll rake in tons of $$$$$$$ from a business they are protecting, just like they protect Big Tobacco, Big Oil, Big Chemical, and Big Defense Contrators who impoverish and destroy the health of your fellow American citizens - the GOP will protect any business of any kind if they can get a buck out of it for their political campaigns.

GOP = A Washington Protection Racket (and protectors of pedophiles)

morally upright ethnically pure people like George W. Bush
posted by Jay the idiot troll

Ethnically pure?

So what are you sayin' here, Jay? That George Bush is a member of some sort of "master race"?

If so, well, that'd explain a lot.

And how do you have knowledge of what exactly Hastert saw, MikeK? You his personal physician or something? You hear his confessions? I don't take shit from doctors, especially HCA appologists like your sorry ass.

...George Bush is a member of some sort of "master race"?

Inbreeding would explain a lot.

GOP = Greedy Old Pedophiles. Tell your friends.

What is so disturbing, but not really surprising, is that the Republican leadership has known that Foley was a sexual predator of children for over a year and has been complicit in covering it up without making any attempts to stop it. Actually, it's even worse than that - they gave Foley more money after they found out about his sexual predation on minors! And now they're lying about the cover-up.

And it's not just the Republican leadership in Congress, but the White House too! The White House initially reacted by saying it opposed further investigation into the matter.

Only now that the story has broken and the GOP has no means of corking it, they are pretending to be "shocked! shocked!". Will the Democrats be able to hammer this home to the electorate? I doubt it. What does Pelosi do as minority leader, anyway? It's hard to imagine that she even has enough clout and leadership ability to choose where they eat at lunch time. And if the restaurant over-charges by an outrageous amount, I bet she prefers to just pay it and not cause a scene.

This should be a cornerstone of the Democrats election campaign - forget your opponent, run against the corruption, arrogance, and perversion in the GOP leadership (and how your opponent's membership and support of that leadership is reason enough to send him packing). You can make one commercial and run it in almost every single congressional district (just do different voice overs for the different opponents names). That's 80% of what you need to win back a majority.

The other 20% includes some real stances on real issues, e.g. fully funding and implementing the 9/11 commissions reports on homeland security, finding and killing Osama bin Laden, winning the war in Iraq and bringing home the troops, universal health care (which is good for big business!), and reducing our dependence on foreign oil and reducing our contributions to global warmning (saving the planet): win-win.

But who wants to guess that we'll just see some disjointed, non-committal reaction by Democrats to the Foley scandal? Seriously, do we as a nation have some other, better choice other than the party of evil and the party of patheticness?

I emailed my (Democratic) congressman, an ordained minister and the emeritus leader of a large liberal urban congregation, and demanded that he hit hard on this issue if he wants my support in dollars and street-level campaigning. I put it in his perspective - it is fine to turn the other cheek - but God's children are not here to be whipping boys.

And where Zen ends, ass-kicking begins.

Mike K: The kid was apparently 16 and there may be no crime . . .

It seems in Florida, Foley's home state, a person age 16 - 17 can be statutorily raped, so what's your take on that Mike K?

BTW, this is your defense of Foley and the GOP?

It wouldn't have been legally statutory rape and wasn't a crime, therefore no biggie?

Ooooooooh! Sign Foley up for Mike K's man of the year then!!!!

There is apparently a new report on ABC that the page office has been warning pages about Rep. Foley for 5 years. If that is the case the leadership probably had more than enough information to take Foley to the FBI years ago, but didn't. They will have a hard time claiming they didn't see any reason to look further than the original e-mails.

Hey, Mike K, it's okay for Karl Rove to make unfounded and untrue accusations of pedophilia against a political opponent and then elevate him to a leadership position in your party, and then let a real pedophile within the GOP continue to serve and be in charge of children's issues for FIVE YEARS?

It's okay for the GOP to harass non-pedophile gays and excoriate them continually for the last several decades, arguing against any rights for them, while tolerating and protecting a homosexual pedophile in their own party for the sake of political power?

If you guys want to fight on the issue of sexual escapades, bring it on. As an ex-Democrat I must advise you that it will be a grave mistake. Posted by: Thomas1 on October 1, 2006 at 3:55 PM

Fancy that. Now Charlie's an ex-Democrat!

I confess that I am troubled by how easily Charlie is able to manipulate me into questioning my liberal ideals with his stealthy fibs and nimble sleight-of-hand.

Here is the ABC link to the claim that a republican supervisor warned the republican pages about Foley 5 years ago.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/gop_staff_warne.html
It is an interesting read. Apparently the Democratic pages weren't warned. It seems Republican pages work with Republican congressmen and Democratic pages work with Democratic congressmen. I guess the Republican leadership didn't think the Democratic pages were at risk, or maybe they didn't want the Democrats to find out about Foley.

If this latest report is substantiated this scandal is going to have real legs.

If I were the parent of one of these boys (I have a son that age) I would take a horsewhip to the entire leadership. This is a disgusting example of criminal depraved indifference.

Turns out, pages were being warned about Foley 5 YEARS AGO.

More recently, they get a hold of a quesitonable e-mail written by Foley. They take his word that it is innocent and that he "won't do it again." They feel no need to investigate further--even quietly. Push it under the rug, hide it--nothing is more important that that they stay in power.

GOP= Groping Old Perverts

This story has legs, for sure---three of them.

To state more of the obvious for the Foley apologists - it is closet cases like him (Republicans, priests, married men) who are responsible for most cases of pursuing minor males. Out of the closet, active, unfearful gay men rarely have any interest in minors - by documented studies, less than % of straight men who are involved with molesting minor females.

By fostering anti-gay attitudes and keeping gays in the closet, they help increase the possibility of inappropriate behavior.

Thomas1: If you guys want to fight on the issue of sexual escapades, bring it on.

Ok.

Particularly if you think soliciting 15-16 year old boys is an "escapade".

Please, please, please try to sell that to the American people to whom you've been preaching absolute sexual values such as abstinence and sex only during marriage for the last 30 years!

Make that your theme, Thomas1: "Explicit e-mails to 15-16 year old Congressional pages are just harmless 'escapades', no different than succumbing to the voluntary, sexual advances of an adult female. In fact, all you good Americans should send your children to Rep. Foley's house to visit his zoo and play with his jumbotron!"

Don't quit defending your pedophile friends, Thomas1. Your words are just as much a boon for every Democratic candidate as are Hastert's, Bush's, Cheney's, and Condi's lying words are.

Thomas1: As an ex-Democrat . . . . [and current liar] . . .

Would the fallout have been worse if the page was a girl?

At this point, it's about the cover-up, and the conspiracy. And what the hell else can you call a concerted effort by leadership to hang on to a seat no matter what? What else can you call it when the only Democrat on the Page committee was purposefully left out of the discussions?

Sorry guys, spin all you want. In fact I advise you to do just that. Tell everyone you come in contact with how this is really no big deal. The American people aren't going to buy the "My Party Right or Wrong, stay strong and resolute to defeat the evil Dems" meme. Being reality based, they don't see it the way you Foley appologuists do.

You guys can bitch all you want, as you did ad nauseum in the last few elections, but when Mr. and Mrs. Middle America are in the polling booth they will know exactly which of the two is the party of reighteousness despite its occasional human failings and which one is the party of utter moral rot from its core, as they did so very correctly in 2000, 2002, and 2004.

Desperation becomes you, Jay.

I don't really understand the way your mind works, but then I guess I'm just not on the same page as you.

They care about young boys' butts. Al 1:45 PM

…is it really in our long term interest?… sklein11 at 2:23 PM

…history of the Republican Party's investigation into Clinton's sex life never happened. …rdw at 2:30 PM

The kid was apparently 16 and there may be no crime… Mike K at 3:22 PM

What's this fixation with Soros and not the Rev Moon who has spent 1.7 Billion, with a "B," on right wing causes and who thinks himself the New Jesus? Is he your New Jesus as he is Charley1's?

For all his faults, Andrew Sullivan is not a Republican (apart from the fact that he is not even a US citizen; he's a Brit with a Green Card).
He also is probably the most effective and forceful blogger about torture these days. And he desperately wants the Dems to take control of both houses of Congress.

…exactly which of the two is the party of reighteousness…Jay at 8:16 PM

Lets have a 24 letter alphabet. Lets drop W and J.

Went to the football game today and had a great time tailgating (no pun) at Arrowhead. Those folks know how to party. I missed all the morning shows. Did they talk about anything beyond Foley, and maybe Woodward's new book?

or maybe they didn't want the Democrats to find out about Foley....
Posted by: Ron Byers on October 1, 2006 at 7:34 PM | PERMALINK

. . . or maybe they wanted Democratic page boys to be his victims.

On the ABC website - Pages sponsored by Republicans were warned about Foley in 2001. Pages sponsored by Democrats were not warned.

How fucking craven can you get? Those boys didn't matter because they were sponsored by the "wrong" party?

Sick bastards.

Ron! What a game! Can't call our Chiefs the Griefs this week, huh?

Ron - on the shows I watched, the NIE was the hot topic - only cursory attention was given to either Foley or the latest offering from the Imperial Scribe. But I was busy this morning, so I didn't sit rapt, glued to the screen.

This may not have the electoral impact our side is hoping for. Joe and Jane Sixpack have known for decades that the GOP is the party that screws everybody, yet they continue to vote Republican anyway...

Global,

Thanks for calling defensive signals for Gunther - They are my beloved Chiefs also.

And I listened to it on a Niner feed. Class guys I might add.

The Chiefs have flipped over this year. All defense. I am worried about the offensive line.

Great game. Trent Green's backup played a great game.

It wasn't much of a game really - it was over ten minutes in. So I commenced to drink, like a good Chiefs fan.

That was a beautiful pass toward the end of the first half. And Huard did do a great job.

How many totally awesome QB's have never taken the field? Who backed up Lenny D? Who backed up Staubach? Who backed up Namath? I couldn't tell you.

Well, you know, a week ago we were talking about torture and habeas corpus. Now we're talking about naughty emails. Why did this come out this week, huh? Could it be that Karl Rove wanted a diversion from an actually important issue?

how did this turn into a thread about the fucking Chiefs? They're not going anywhere, let it go.
Everyone knows the Steelers rule and their fans can drink any other fans under the table anytime.

"Actually important issues"

Yeah, right on kiddo - Sexual Harassment in the workplace, child predator laws, even molestation - bunch of wimp stuff.

But, it does give me cover while I'm fueling for that long flight to Tehran.

I agree haha, the Chiefs have too many holes. The Steelers are the champs.

I disagree that Steeler fans can drink other fans under the table. I have encountered lots of drunks in venues across the country. I am told that Chicago fans are the best drunks.

The Chief fans, however, put on the best talegating parties.

Ron Byers,

I assume you mean the WolfPack tells ribald tales while tailgating.

Geez, if only we could have done that at the old Municipal Stadium before watching Cool Lenny and Otis Taylor.

oops, there is no Republican upside in this scandal. At the best it makes them look like hypocrites. It will probably surpress their religious base even more.

I doubt this is a plot hatched by Karl. Neither is the NIE. It ties Iraq to the War on Terror(tm) in an rather unpleasant fashion for Republicans.

Somebody, someplace, is looking out for the Democrats. Hummm, maybe I have underestimated the congressional Democratic leadership.

of course, I'm completely unbiased. :D

Being a Steelers fan, I was at least glad to see the Jags and especially the Bengals lose today.

haha,

Best defensive coordinator the Chiefs ever had was Bill Cowher - Please don't stick the knife in any deeper. Go back to your Iron City brew and enjoy.

One poster asks what Democrats would do if the roles were reversed. I believe we would be disgusted and that we would speak out like we are now. Since this whole affair looks to be illegal, I would hope we would also ask that any Democrat in leadership who knowingly covered up the incident resign. I would further hope that we would have the guts to ask for an investigation by the FBI, seeing as it looks like what he did was illegal. That is the key here. It was quite possibly illegal.

That is what was different with Clinton. Many, if not most, Democrats were disgusted or at least disturbed by the Lewinsky scandal and said so publicly. But it was not illegal.

Why are so many Republicans unable to see this. Why is it more important to worry about Clinton and the supposed hypocrisy of Democrats than what this man did to a teenager?

haha, I'm with Ron and Paul-3. The Steelers are the champs. ( have my Terrible Towel from last years superbowl.)

But Arrowhead tailgaters are a class unto themselves. And the fans are the loudest in any stadium anywhere. I have never had a bad time at Arrowhead, and I have been present for three times as many losses as I have wins.

That's my last football aside. I'm sobering up now.

"Talegating." Sorry folks, I am still recovering from tailgating. And yes, I wasn't the designated driver.

(tadium Express is my best friend. The Plaza stop is six blocks from my home.

Promise, this is my last football comment.

Linus: "It could come out that George W Bush has been keeping fifteen year old Thai girls as sex slaves in the basement of the White House and 22% of the American people would still say he was doing a good job."

Probably. What does it say about present state of the SCLM, if George W. Bush could be caught on video repeatedly pilfering the collection plates at his church, and FOX News analysts still applaud the president for his regular attendance at Sunday services?

Mark Foley's appetite for underaged pages pales in comparison to the Republican Party's appetite for power.

Publican Family Values - If your parents are Democrats, you have no value.

Global Citizen: "Promise, this is my last football comment."

How 'bout those Bears? 27-6 over the Seahawks with 8:12 to go in the third quarter. Rex Grossman is a stud tonight.

Opps -- that was the wrong metaphor to use on this thread ...

This is a gimmee. Try as they might, I don't think the Democrats can manage to grab defeat from the jaws of victory here.

Well, I'm already seeing some self-identified Dems saying, "Oh, we musn't play this up; the media will do it for us". Yesterday, Ben Cardin, the Dem US Senate candidate here in MD, told me pretty much exactly that. I really wonder if they're ever gonna learn.....

Dan S.,

Your joke is at least two days shy of being original. But I'm sure you two weren't the only ones it occurred to. :)

That is what was different with Clinton. Many, if not most, Democrats were disgusted or at least disturbed by the Lewinsky scandal and said so publicly. But it was not illegal.

First of all, perjury is illegal -- even perjury about sex, a separate categories that Clinton defenders seem to think isn't "real" perjury for some reason.

Moreover, there's harrassment law. Recall that the only reason the Lewinsky matter ever made it to court was because of Jones v. Clinton.

Now, compared to the outrageous and destructive lies and crimes of the last six years it does seem rather small potatoes, but I'm not about to give WJC a pass for perjury or possible harrassment just because his successor has been such a disaster. WJC lowered the bar for Presidential conduct a bit, and GWB dislodged the bar entirely from the uprights and tossed it in a lake.

性爱图片 台湾18电影网 美腿图片 强奸图片 祼体写真 美女写真 性感美女图片 做爱小电影 美少女自拍 日本av电影 明星裸照 黄色电影下载 免费色情电影 两性健康图片 性教育电影 激情电影 免费黄色电影 成人性爱电影 性电影下载 成人电影下载 性爱视频 偷拍图片 泳装美女 性感内衣 性爱贴图 性生活图片 作爱图片 性交视频 做爱电影 性福 人体摄影 裸女图片 乱伦图片 强暴电影 轮奸视频 迷奸图片 免费小电影 免费电影在线下载 免费影片 最新大片 免费电影下载 免费在线电影 看免费电影 电影夜宴网站 情色电影 激情视频下载 明星露点图片 激情写真 阴部图片 乳房图片 全裸美女 淫荡小说 淫乱小说 美女脱衣视频 裸体女人 女性手淫图片 波霸美女 淫水美女鲍鱼 阴户阴毛图片 美女图库 美女口交图片 美女乳房 性爱小说 美眉写真 激情贴图 两性性生活 作爱电影 性交图片 做爱图片 人体艺术摄影 美女裸照 全裸女 黄色小说 成人小说 强暴图片 轮奸美女 泳装图片 韩国电影 性知识图片 最新电影 宽带电影 经典电影 恐怖电影 人体艺术 美女图片 美女走光 A片下载 毛片 偷窥图片 裸体视频聊天室 成人网站 成人论坛 性爱论坛 变态日本女生 淫女 女大学生 美女下阴图 女性生殖器 操逼操比操屄 激情论坛 免费黄色电影 最新电影 成人性爱电影 免费小电影 免费性电影 免费成人电影 免费电影在线观看 宽带电影 经典电影 恐怖电影 免费影片 免费影院 最新大片 十八电影网 美女写真 免费电影下载 两性生活 性教育片 两性知识 性爱图片 激情电影 免费电影下载 免费在线电影 看免费电影 免费电影网站 韩国电影 美少女图片 日本av女优 情色电影 同志电影 激情视频下载 明星露点图片 写真电影 阴部图片 乳房图片 明星裸照 性爱视频 偷拍图片 美眉图片 泳装美女 美女内衣内裤 人体艺术 美女图片 美女走光 美腿图片 三级片 强奸电影 美女祼体图片 美女自拍 黄色电影下载 免费色情电影 激情图片 激情小电影 性感美女图片 漂亮妹妹图片 做爱图片 性爱贴图 情趣内衣图片 性生活图片 作爱图片 艳情小说 性交姿势 做爱电影 性福联盟 人体摄影 明星裸照 裸女图片 黄色小说 成人小说 乱伦小说 强暴电影 轮奸视频 性虐待电影 迷奸图片 妓女日记 写真集 全裸美女 淫荡小说 淫乱小说 淫书 舒淇写真 美女脱衣图片 裸体女人图片 人体写真 女性手淫图片 波霸美女 淫水美女鲍鱼 阴户阴道臀部阴毛 美女图库 口交肛交图片 A片下载 毛片 偷窥图片 裸体视频聊天室 成人网站 成人论坛 性爱论坛网站 性变态图片 淫女图片 日本女学生 美女下阴图 女性生殖器 操逼图片 美女激情

As a reluctant member of the religious right, I will no longer vote for republicans. I made this decision way before the foley incident.

All I can say is that Karl Rove should be very scared because at first I was just planning to stay home on election day, but now I'm going to vote and I'm going to vote for anyone in the democratic party. It's the only way that I can punish the republicans and there are thousands more just like me in my situation.

Karl Rove, you and your party are going to get exactly what you deserve - a very painful and humiliating final 2 years in office.

Thomas,
For five years, the GOP leadership knew enough about this bugger to warn the pages, but left him in charge of the Committee for Missing and Exploited Children. That's an outrage. This slime-ball was explioting a loop-hole (at least he is probably hoping a judge will agree it's a loop-hole) he himself most likely inserted into the language of the bill. How the hell anyone could justify the assertion that instant messaging sexual harrassment is less harmful to the victim than e-mailing it is beyond my comprehention. A criminal was put and maintained in charge of writing laws regarding his own crimes!

No mechanism of corruption gets any worse than that.

It's a wonder that people don't collapse vomitting in the hallway from the stench of sulphur coming from the GOP caucus.

Purjury,
hmm. a crime, huh? Even when the question posed had no bering whatsoever on the relevant investigation? Even when the question posed was in regard to legal acts? Even when the question posed was a grotesque imposition on personal privacy? Even when the question posed was deliberately constructed to create a crime where none previously existed? Even when the answer given was accurate (in the presant tense just as the question was) and the accusation of perjury would only be true if the question and answer had been in the past tense (or as is usual in grand jury questioning including both present AND past tense)?

The only "crime" you have to show is the most blatent example on malicious entrapment in modern history.

Equal opportunity cynic you are a GOP mouthpiece. Cut the shit.

No Thomas1
The sulphur comment is referring to the kind of people who commit buggery and those who aid and abet them.

Joe,

Yes. Perjury is a crime, no matter how much you dislike that fact or how politically-motivated the related investigation. Harrassment defendents are not entitled to lie under oath simply because telling the truth would be embarrassing or bad for their careers.

I'm hardly a "GOP mouthpiece". I hang out on blogs like this because I'd like to see the Democrats put an end to the damage the Republicans have done to our country, though I virtually always vote Libertarian. (In my state there are no races where my vote has any national implication anyway so I have absolutely no worries about my vote helping to put a R into office.) But I'm not going to waste time on a pissing contest over who is most disgusted by the Republicans. If blind defense of Bill Clinton is the admission criterion for being anti-Republican in your little imaginary world, then I guess I'm not anti-Republican in your little world.

Jerry Studds did not do the same thing as Mark Foley.

Studds was censured in 1983 for having sex with a page ten years earlier.

Foley engages in stalking and harassment of a specific victim profile and has been at it for years, apparently with careful gop enablers who have been helping him keep it under the counter, you know, advising discretion.

The House Banking Scandal is an interesting point of comparison because it was different in almost every way.

It was trivial and brilliantly orchestrated by Newt Gingrich to cause maximum damage.

The House Bank operated in a very idiosyncratic and old fashioned way, sort of like the bursar's office of a gentleman's club, and had been carrying on like that for decades, if not centuries. House members saw its idiosyncracies as a perk, not necessarily appreciating that some of their activity was technically illegal, (and I use the term 'technically' here intentionally because I'm not sure there ever was another institution anywhere so loosely kept as the House bank.

Because the Democrats were in the majority more of them used the bank than did Republicans and Newt Gingrich saw it as an opportunity to tar a lot of them at once.

Rather than caving in to pressure from Democrats to minimize the extent of the scandal by limiting publicity only to the handful of House members who repeatedly broke the law, Gingrich took steps to ensure that the special counsel appointed to investigate the matter informed the voting public of the overdrafts and the identities of ALL the congressmen responsible[4].

That's the key point: Repbublicans making a mountain out of a mole hill, compared to their current trouble, trying to make a mole hill out of a mountain.

GOP leadership has known about Mark Foley's conduct for five years and has done nothing about it, at least one of them seeming to have accepted a $100,000 bribe to keep his mouth shut. How many people were in the loop on that and just sort of grunted and mumbled about it and loudly suggested he should just keep it off the reservation?

And consider it in the context of everything else they've done these last five years: they understand and can engage in no behaviour unless it is outright rapacity cloaked in hypocrisy.

I think he's right. Even my eyes glaze over a bit when I try to remember everything that was going on with Jack Abramoff or even Duke Cunningham. But Foley? That's easy. He was preying on teenage pages, and the Republican leadership looked the other way and allowed it to continue for nearly a year. It doesn't get much easier than that.

They have nearly perfected ethical scsndals and goalpost moving, there are so many scandals that people simply have already forgotten.

Safavian, Cunningham, Ney, Foley, Abramoff, Delays involvement, DHS porno, signing statements, torture, rendition, plamegate, rove, libby, OSP, WHIG, Rumsfelds tall tales, war profiteering, cronyism, ken lay [enron], Geneva conventions, warrantless wire tapping,sigining statements,brideges to nowhere,mushroom clouds, WMD, anthrax, Brown, FEMA, etc etc. Enough to cause seizures in some, others just numb out from it all.

The U.S. is 20th out of 21 in voter turnout among established democracies -- only Switzerland has lower voter turnout than turnout in U.S. presidential elections. Turnout among potentially eligible voters in the U.S. in presidential elections is only 50-55%. By comparison, turnout is 70-75% in Canada and well over 80% in most other democracies.

so what?

Foley is on the verge of becoming the poster child of a party that is concerned about little more than preserving its power.

The US media [incl. political campaigns] flushes out less voters in America even though they say smear wins campaigns. huh. Will Foley get people to vote or will more democrats AND republicans stay home?

Maybe it's just the opposite after a while [decades of non-stop spin and smear] people just kinda give up, even you yourself said so the other day.

I am not a pathetic little man and whether you hate me or not, I love you.

That's as grotesque a lie as Charlie has coughed up in some time. Charlie is the type of self-righteous fool who would tell you he loved you as he was fitting a noose around your neck. In the service of his masters, he's only doing it for your own good.

I'd agree that ''pathetic little man" is an apt descriptor for you, Charlie. You don't know what love is- you have no experience to speak of with love for the simple reason that love is the art of paying attention.

A pathetic little man, a liar and a jackass all in one.

Cynic,
It's not blind defense to point out a gross abuse of the prosecutors powers. This was a political lynching. What happened between Bill and Monica was no one's business but Bill's, Monica's, and Hillery's. It had no bearing whatsoever on the alleged harrassment occuring years before in another state. And, that harrassment case had no relationship to the Whitewater case which was the prosecutors only legitimate investigation.
Years worth of media bullshit repitition won't change the facts.
Holding up Clinton as evidencs that the Dems. are somehow as bad as the GOP is like trying to walk on smoke. It looks like there is something there to stand on but the instant you try to stand on it you're falling through empty air.
Prosecuting a man for purgery about a legal activity that had nothing to do with the investigation is 100% abuse of power.

It may also directly involve the Republican leadership; there are rumors about Hastert himself.

Read "The Architect" about Karl Rove, and learn how he used to meet Jack Abramoff on street corners in Washington D.C., to avoid being logged in White House security logs. The Bush Administration truly is nothing more than an organized crime family that should be prosecuted under the RICO statutes!!!

Why do Democrats hate gays? -Jay

Why do Republicans hate 70% of America?

Rep Foley was for National Man Boy Love Association [NMBLA] before he was against it.

Later he and Barney Frank and can sit and tell how difficult life can be. Boffo! Instant forgiveness.
Posted by: mhr

The ignorance of Mere Hapless Rightard conflating homosexuality with child predation. Barney Frank is an openly gay, consistently re-elected Congressman. I haven't heard any under-age page stories about him.

But you have the homophobic predator, Foley, who regularly votes to restrict the rights of gays, all the while chasing underage boys. It is the very definition of hypocrisy, and you, Mere Hapless Rightard, are absolute scum for trying to compare him to a respected multi-term congressman.

But it's all about retaining power, isn't it, you fucking low-life douchebag.

Just because a scandal involves sex, cover-up and powerful players doesn't mean the press and msm will pay any attention. Look at me, Jeff Gannon, photogenic and glam. Republican prostitute extraordinaire. I can tell you I 'visited' the WH alot more than Monica did. Did those idiots in the msm give me any face time. No. They only like Dem scandal. Monica, Monica, Monica. That hussy got 24/7 coverage. The Washington Post had her on the front page and page A2, A3, A4, A5 ...... Me, nothing. Monica, Monica, Monica. She got the covers of Time and Newsweek. Tim Russert and the whole of msm punditry practically drooled her name. Me - not even a mention. The press followed that sow Monica everywhere, camped outside her apartment. Barbara Walters Special. Jennie Craig deal. Me not even a head shot.

If a Democratic President gets away with criminal sexual activity in the White House, congressmen were bound to follow suit.

What was Clinton's "criminal activity" Jay? Was it having sex with an intern? What's the difference, Jay? Monica Lewinsky was 22.

But don't let facts get in the way of your fantasy, Jay.

Then we agree Foley, and ANYONE covering up his crimes, should be run out of town.

Yep, that covers the entire House GOP leadership. Thanks for playing Charlie. Not sure why you would vote Republican this time....oh I know why, you want to support the party that enables and protects child predators.
Sick fuck.

Basically, the GOP takes over as the new Catholic Church pedophilia scandal.

Still not concerned about any possible heterosexual child molestors, eh Charlie?
Sick, sick, sick.

Kevin wrote: "Even my eyes glaze over a bit when I try to remember everything that was going on with Jack Abramoff ..."

Well then, Kevin, please watch Bill Moyers' documentary, "Capitol Crimes", airing this Wednesday 10/4 on PBS. It lays out the Abramoff / DeLay / Reed / Norquist operation in a perfectly understandable and very compelling manner.

From the PBS website:

The fall of Jack Abramoff has exposed a huge web of corruption that still remains vastly unreported by the broadcast media, even as prosecutors continue to chase down leads and quiz insiders and witnesses. "It's a dizzying scope of perfidy and politics that boggles the imagination, and although Jack Abramoff and Tom DeLay have been brought down, the system remains as vulnerable as ever," says Bill Moyers. He and his colleagues untangle emails, reports, interviews and facts on the record to provide viewers a coherent pattern of criminal and political chicanery. The documentary is followed by a discussion led by Moyers with leading thinkers about the possible solutions for America's political system.

Kevin: He was preying on teenage pages, and the Republican leadership looked the other way and allowed it to continue for nearly a year.

Make that "allowed it to continue for five years."

elmendorf: and on the public not paying close enough attention to the facts..

hey....

we aren't that wise...

most of us think saddam had something to do with 9-11

where would get an idea like that?

thomas1: Congressional Resignations / Retirements (1991-1992)

t1 is right....

the current number of 4-gop resignations in less than 12-months is only a record for

this century...

Trolls are very busy at the moment attempting to purge all MaF54 messages from their files.

Ron Breyers

There is apparently a new report on ABC that the page office has been warning pages about Rep. Foley for 5 years.

LAS

Turns out, pages were being warned about Foley 5 YEARS AGO.

Kevin--It's time to update your post to:

He was preying on teenage pages, and the Republican leadership looked the other way and allowed it to continue for 5 years.

Heh, interesting thread.

Couple points: Ironically, I think it's good that we have Mike K and Nathan (on the first Foley thread) parsing the legalisms. Yes, Mark Foley is technically not a pedophile, as pedophiles fetish prepubescent children. Yes, the emails were just "overly friendly" and cut from a different cloth than the IM messages. Yes, the GOP leadership had "concerns" about Foley but probably didn't know about the IM messages, because they doubtless aren't archived like emails.

What Mark Foley is is a creepy fiftysomthing who likes to cybersex teenage boys. Frankly, I don't even know if that activity per se is criminal; nobody's accused him of arranging assignations with these kids.

But this is actually *wonderful* politically -- in a way even better than if Foley was caught attempting to pick up teeage boys. If that were the case, the denunciations would be unequivocal and all the troll apologists and Fox spinners would close ranks against him. Including Mike K.

But this way, we get to hear GOP spinners making excuses for the leadership and defending the actions of a skeevy ol' perv against the overblown accusations of a public who is less-than-perfectly-interested in knowing or appreciating the fine distinctions.

It's like Clinton in reverse :) Pure political gold.

Bob

The distinction is that those four GOP resignations are all part of the same function of corruption, a corruption so innate in these people they think it a virtue, if they think of it at all.

Previous generations of Republicans at least had the grace to know there is a difference, but the present generation of Republicans simply think corruption is wit.

a previous episode recounted here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Congressional_page_sex_scandal

t1: but I've proven you wrong enough already.

how is your answering my open-ended question...
on the number of gop resignations in a short period of time....

proving me wrong?

however...

i do contend that the current 4-gop resignations over the last 12-months is a record...

for this century..

and.....its only october...

Thomas1,

That's because the Democrats were the majority party in the House in the 80s and early 90s.

If there are any more homosexual child molesters in Congress (Republican or Democrat), I think rdw and I are the only ones on the record as wanting to run them all out of town. Why is that, do you think?

Because rdw and you are the only ones desperate enough to try to change the subject from what is in fact happening to mindless speculation on what other people might be doing wrong, despite the complete absence of evidence that anyone else is, that would make Foley look less exceptionally bad?

I don't think anyone anticipated.....

Thomas' alter ego:

> Last night you were ragging on Bob. At least as many people
> wish you woyuld go away and never come back, chuck-head.

Don't you dare put me in this category. While some people
might be annoyed at any number of things about the way I
post, I am not insensitive to this or unaware of why this
is so. You want me to respond to trolls less -- tell me.
I get carried away sometimes, but I have no desire to
wreck threads and I'm not remotely trollish politically.

And I also have my share of supporters here.

Thomas is an imp of the perverse who does the
opposite of what people want just to piss them off.

Bob

If there are any more homosexual child molesters in Congress (Republican or Democrat), I think rdw and I are the only ones on the record as wanting to run them all out of town. Why is that, do you think?

Wow, how fucking noble of the two of you. As if there are some among us who WOULDN'T support running a Democrat out of town if he/she were a child molester.

You know why we aren't even addressing the issue?

Because we know perfectly well that it's nothing but your pathetic attempt to change the subject from the culpability of the GOP leadership in this scandal.

Why don't you finally admit that the problem here is with a leadership, specifically and exclusively a REPUBLICAN leadership, that chose to turn a blind eye to the behavior of one of its members because it was politically expedient to do so?

Can you do this? Can you be a man?

As an ex-Democrat I must advise you that it will be a grave mistake.

Well, at least you've stopped falsely claiming to be a Democrat. That's progress in the direction of honesty, I guess.

As I told Mark, it is illegal in Greco-Roman wrestling to grab the balls of your opponent - Stroking or caressing is a different matter.

t1....post where anyone -stated- that 4-gop resignations in one year was a record...

go for it...

but i do contend...

the current 4-gop resignations is a record for this century....

knock yourself out...

if you want to complicate your thoughts further, here is this:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5909

Why did Daily Kos ignore a story so potentially damaging to the Republicans.

Follow all of the links.

shorter hastert: every man for himself

"crime per se"

When a 52 year old politically powerful leader in the House sends e-mails with sexual conotations to youthful pages in the Congressional system, it is at least sexual harassment and a gross misuse of power over these pages.

Thank you for finally admitting I was right.

Happy to oblige, but I didn't do that. Trying to give them impression Democrats are 'just as bad' as Republicans by bringing up an episode so preposterously different, and, to most people, totally obscure, is itself corrupt. Squid ink.

Thomas:

Barney Frank's lover made a serious mistake. But you don't lock somebody up for what their lover or their spouse does wrong -- just ask Jeannine Pirro.

Frank also faced the voters. His Massachussets district, knowing the facts, decided that they wouldn't hold this against him.

Foley didn't even *try* to face the voters, and while he didn't exactly apologize for the conduct -- he offered not one word in his self-defense.

Quite a difference, don't you think?

Bob

Thomas1,

And where is there in Hastert's phony letter any attempt to address what the Republican leadership knew and when about Foley's proclivities?

ABC News is reporting that pages were warned even 5 years ago about Foley. Where is there in Hastert's letter any concern about finding out who knew this in Congress, and what they may have done or neglected to do? Why isn't Hastert making bold assertions about how we have to get to the bottom of that issue, instead of talking ONLY about the sexually explicit IMs -- as if that could be the ONLY evidence that they had a child molester in their midst?

Why do you even imagine that Hastert has addressed everything he should in that letter? What kind of objective judgement must you have if you think he has?

"Hastert's letter to the AG"

Which one? The "Hey Al, still on for a few 2 out 3 pins tonight?" or the one for media PR attention?

Hastert's letter is about five years too late, from the sound of it.

Barney Frank, on the other hand, found out about his boyfriends business when everyone else did, and the guy was soon homeless.

Obviously, Hastert and friends are doing everything they can to pretend that it was fine for them to turn a blind eye to clear evidence of Foley's perverse proclivities. If doing so put at danger the pages in Congress, so be it, if politics is served.

And Thomas1, we see, is just hunky-dory with it all.

Oh yeah, Thomas1, you're in a great position to lecture us about your noble behavior.

Thomas:

Foley isn't, to anybody's knowledge, a "child molester." He's a horny old closeted gay man. And none of this would be nearly the kind of issue it is if Foley wasn't such a stinking hypocrite about the whole thing -- building his rep in Congress as the point man on protecting child exploitation on the Internet. He helped draft the law that made the age of consent for internet assignations 18 across state lines. And he also inveighed against the Clinton scandal.

That's really what's driving the political issue.

Now there's a distinction between the emails -- which as far as I'm aware had no explicit sexual content but were only "overly friendly" (whatever that means) and the IM messages -- which were pure cybersex. Hastert and the leadership may well have not been aware of those -- and that's apparently what he's using as a defense.

But guess what? The public isn't going to make these fine legalistic distinctions.

The public just wants some blood and sacrifice now.

You live by the sword of sexual self-righteousness -- you die by it. That simple.

Bob

I take it you, at least, will join rdw and me in calling for EVERY homosexual child molester, and anyone who covered up those crimes (regardless of party), to be driven out of town?

Oh, wow, that's SUCH a brave thing for you and rdw to do. Yeah, I'll sign onto it too. Count me as against murder by blunt axe while you're at it.

But how about you go on record about throwing out any member of Congress who had reason to suspect that there might be illegal sexual contact with minors among its members, was in a position to press for further investigation, and simply refused to do so?

How about that?

Thomas:

Lusting in your heart may well be against the teachings of Jesus -- but it isn't a crime.

Who knows (or, frankly, cares) whether or not Barney Frank lusts or (at this point) has lusted after teenage boys?

The only issue that matters to the public is his conduct, whether verbal or otherwise.

Bob

I think Barney Frank's boyfriend running a gay brothel out of their basement is a little more than a "complete absence of evidence that anyone else" is possibly involved in homosexual child molestation.

No, its really not.

1) "Barney Frank's boyfriend" wasn't a member of Congress,
2) That's many years ago, not now,
3) "Running a brothel" isn't "child molestation".

And "possibly" wasn't the issue, anyway.

Again, this is just your desperate effort to change the topic from what Foley in fact has been caught doing to speculation about what unspecified other people might be doing, and trying to use that speculation to minimize the significance of Foley's deeds.

What about those Republicans who get a hard on for Abu Ghraib photos? We know there's a lot more of them than child molestors.

"merder by blunt axe"

Count me in too.

t1: join rdw and me in a bipartisan effort calling for EVERY homosexual child molester, and anyone who covered up those crimes (regardless of party), to be driven out of town

so you are o.k. with heterosexual child molesters?

It does bug me a little bit that Foley is having the "child molester" bell hung around his neck.

He's a pervert who engaged in clearly inappropriate verbal conduct with minors, which may in fact qualify as sexual harrassment.

But no physical contact is alleged, nor were his attentions directed at prepubescent children.

Not that I'm particularly disappointed that the public isn't drawing these distictions in the political fallout. The GOP deserves full well to eat this all without aid of a napkin or a nice soft drink to wash it down with.

But it does bother me a little on principle.

Bob

Well, Tony Snow, the mouthpiece and occasional Court Jester for your little boy King told CNN this morning that they may be simply "naughty e-mails".

Resign by means of being "naughty".

Such a way with words hast Tony.

Is there a specific term for some older jerk lusting after teenagers? Besides 'horny old jerk'?

16...

its like 2500...

or 2800...

its a number...

TheThirdPaul:

Bingo. It's like Rush's "fraternity prank" characterization of the Abu Ghraib pyramid pic. I'm sure it smells *real funny* to lots of values voters.

Since the GOP's deal this time is turnout among a usually disaffected and alienated authoritarian voting base who they've been so successful getting to the polls with their microtargeting and massive GOTV efforts -- this is going to put a *huge cramp* in that kind of effort.

Because these sorts of people tend to be curdled moral idealists, and something like this tends to produce so much cognitive dissonance that their alienation goes off the charts again and they stay home. Politically, nothing is worse for GOP base turnout efforts than a sex/coverup scandal like this.

cld:

"Pervert" works just fine.

Bob

"Pervert" is too generic.

We need something like 'acne fetishist'.

Is there a specific term for some older jerk lusting after teenagers?

If the attracton is exclusively to adolescents, it is "ephebophilia"; if it includes both adolescents and adults there isn't really a special term for it, nor is it particularly uncommon. Of course, there are specific legal provisions covering various ways of acting out such attraction toward adolescents, regardless of whether the person is also attracted to adults.

Or 'sock hop supervisor'.

Waterloo indeed. I won't bet on that one. This election is already in the bag for the Repugs. They have no shame, but do have many operatives all possessed of the same certitude and self-righteousness of our boy-dictator president. That includes Diebold.

Beyond that, and as gleeful as I am at seeing a hypocrite (now claiming alcoholism as an excuse) stuck on his own misguided libido, there is little mention of what I perceive to be the facts.
(1) 16 is the age-of-consent in Washington. A 'page' can legally consent to sex with an adult at that age so what is illegal about suggestive emails, no matter how unwanted?
2) There is no evidence, yet, that Foley did anything more than flirt.
3) Teenagers are not 'children' and have very active libidos besides, despite the denial of religious nutcases and many parents.
4) Trying to create a risk-free environment for children, let alone teenagers, is folly. Proper education and encouragement to think critically from an early age is a much better defense against people like Foley than a pile of cynical legislative efforts, which are frequently oblivious to the human condition - especially in sexual matters. Young people have to learn how to make intelligent choices for themselves, and not be infantilized until they're 30 or older.

Ephebophilia, despite its delightful sybillance, is unfortunately never going to make it into the mouth of Nancy Grace or onto the cover of the National Enquirer.

I think we're stuck with pervert. While it covers a multitude of sins, it clearly covers Foley's pretty solidly.

Bob

or make that sibillance.

Ephebophiliacs?

I just can't mutter that at some jerk in a bar,'Fuck off you ephebophiliac!'

Perhaps shorten it to 'feebo'?

Is there a specific term for some older jerk lusting after teenagers? Besides 'horny old jerk'?

The term "pedophile" certainly is used in this sense colloquially, though, not, of course, by the Roman Catholic Church and Nathan. But gee, look what happened to them when they tried to make that argument. People in everyday conversation just have a way of not making these distinctions when middle-aged adults are making passes at minors.

In any case, Foley helped write the law that he violated himself--the Walsh act makes not just internet solicitation, but mere explicit discussion, of sex with minors a federal crime. The trolls still arguing that no crime was committed because of the age of consent in DC and Florida are just laughable.

And Foley's touching comment on America's Most Wanted about the Walsh Act protecting "these kids" from "these sickos" is his acknowledgment that hitting on minors online is both illegal and fucked up. He just didn't think we'd find out he's one of them.

He's history. The story now is whether Hastert & Co. can successfully convince America that it was perfectly appropriate of them to do absolutely nothing after seeing the e-mails besides tell Foley to stay away from the one page...five years after they warned all the Republican pages about him. Good luck to them with that little spin; it should make the WMD sales job look like a piece of cake.

(And I had a good laugh this a.m. when I saw that Hastert's web team had finally taken down the three blazing headlines about Hastert's "leadership" in the fight to keep kids safe in cyberspace. He must be sharing web consultants with Joe Lieberman.)

rrk1 (and no, check the email, folks -- this guy is not a misspelled spoof):

First, Foley was hardly "merely flirting." He was engaging in sexual behavior -- asking these kids to masturbate. While I don't like to see sexual behavior not involving physical contact criminalized, these IM messages clearly crossed the line coming from both an adult and a workplace superior.

I don't think anybody, no matter how civil libertarian, should be defending this conduct in itself. It was clearly an abuse of this man's power and position, and not healthy for the psyches of these kids, either.

Bob

'sybillance' is correct in so many ways.

"Pervert" is too generic.

Not to mention too hard to define. Ask 10 people to define perverted sexual behavior, and you'll get everything from scat to BDSM to licking whipped cream off nipples. I'm not inclined to call any behavior between fully consenting adults "perversion," no matter how much it may not be my thang. (Well, okay, snuff. Do people ever consent to snuff? Am I really naive?)

"Pedophilia" and "child molestation" may be inexact and have specific psychological meanings, but used in a general sense, they at least clearly describe the act being perpetrated. "Pervert" is valueless in this regard.

I do like "acne fetishist" and "sock hop supervisor," though.

I think "child predator" is the current term of choice.

That works, frankly0.

As a hawk is a predator, they used to be called "Chickenhawks" in cruising bars - However, the powers to be in the Publican Party have given that a different conatation, except, perhaps they are not that much different or, in some cases, one in the same.

No, "child predator" doesn't work, as Foley preyed on adolescents, not children. It's politically-motivated overkill; a great media buzzword -- but there's really no need to make this any worse than it already so clearly is. Since the good among us also support gay rights, I think we should concerned about minimizing blowback. We're not the puritannical anti-sex crusaders in this picture.

I like "pervert" precisely because its definition is subjective. We all might consider different things perverted -- but what each and every one of us can agree on is that a fiftysomething spanking it over the net with the teenagers who work, umm, under him is clearly perverted, perverted, perverted.

And no matter what anyone's particular sexual tastes -- "pervert" has powerfully negative connotations. If *you* find it perverted, whatever it is, you consider it sick and inappropriate.

Only, umm, horny 16-year-olds wear the term "pervert" with a misplaced and juvenile pride.

Bob

like "pervert" precisely because its definition is subjective.

I dislike the use of the term at all for just that reason. It doesn't identify a clear reason for condemnation, and lots of people can think of things that they are interested in that others might call "perverted".

Unfortunately, while we have convenient short language for underage adolescents that attract this particular kind of behavior ("jailbait"), we don't have a focussed simple term for the wrongdoer. I think there is a blame-the-victim mentality underlying this.

cmdicely:

I might consider something "perverted" that you happen to practice, and vice versa.

But when you and I both strongly agree that what Foley did was perverted -- that's why the term has value.

If you want to stay within the realm of the DSM IV or criminology, maybe ephebophile is more technically correct. But it has no ring to it.

I'm looking for a term which is generally accurate (even though at the expense of being precise), doesn't overstate the case (again, to minimize blowback) and which is likely to enter the common discourse.

Bob

cmdicely: I dislike the use of the term at all for just that reason. It doesn't identify a clear reason for condemnation, and lots of people can think of things that they are interested in that others might call "perverted".

That was exactly my point above. All but the most craven trolls can agree that preying upon minors is reprehensible. The term "pervert" is so diversely definable as to be meaningless...and that means that for a good many people, it doesn't carry very much condemnation, either.

Unfortunately, while we have convenient short language for underage adolescents that attract this particular kind of behavior ("jailbait"), we don't have a focussed simple term for the wrongdoer.

I guess "fishers of boys/girls" wouldn't work, huh?

(Not that I think anything about this is funny besides the clearly mounting desperation of the GOP leadership apologists.)

I think there is a blame-the-victim mentality underlying this.

Hadn't thought about it that way, but yes, there is. And "jailbait" also connotes a little winking and nodding, too--or at least it has in the past.

shortstop:

Well, that's where I disagree. I think "pervert" carries a very strong connotation of disapproval. Even a BDSM aficionado or sex worker has a decided limit beyond which they'd never go. We certainly all agree that snuff is inexcusable.

So while the definition of "perverted" is variable, the meaning for each individual defining it is strong. "Eww, that's fucking perverted!" can be uttered by the most sexually freethinking person up to (perhaps} the Marquis de Sade.

The word rings cherries in the popular imagination. And there's a nearly universal consensus that Foley's conduct fits into the category of "perverted" -- whatever else "perverted" might mean to particular individuals.

If something more specific is required for a technical discussion, there's always ephebophile. My only fear that is that it's too "eggheady" and would never catch on.

Bob

shortstop:

And besides, if you call Mark Foley a "child predator" -- what do you call David Karr?

Bob

it's thoroughly bipartisan:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/reynolds.asp

Poor papago. You're trying so hard. Don't worry. Mel went to jail, and there's plenty of room in the penal system (calm down, Foley; that word doesn't mean what you think it means) for both Reynoldses.

Maybe Tom can get Mel's old cell. Foley, I think, will get solitary, if they know what's what.

The word rings cherries in the popular imagination.

Oh, god, yes! Ring my cherry!

It's always seemed to me that people I'd call perverts will tell you all about it at the drop of a pin, unless it's a crime, and even then if they're drunk, and will always think that everyone else shares their obscenity but won't admit it, and they have some special insight into how things really are.

'Sure, everybody likes (blank) they just don't like to talk about it.'

'Well, I don't.'

And they just give you that look.

I've been practicing new words, and I think 'feebo' from ephebophilia, as I pronounce it, works best, short and punchy.

'He's some stupid feebo!'

'Old feebo!', etc.

I think "pervert" carries a very strong connotation of disapproval.

Yes, but it doesn't carry any load as to what the disapproval is for; it says something about the speaker's feelings, and nothing about the subject.

That's why its no good, unless you are using it to someone who already implicitly trusts your judgement of the appropriateness vs. ickiness of sexual practices.

"Eww, that's fucking perverted!" can be uttered by the most sexually freethinking person up to (perhaps} the Marquis de Sade.

Yes, it can be uttered by anybody, but its meaning is completely different. If, for instance, someone who has rather alternative beliefs about sexuality who accused somebody of being "perverted" might do so for restricting themselves to mundane, monogamous, vanilla sexuality. (I've actually seen this in the past.)

"Perverted" only tells of the speakers emotional response, but carries no information about what the response is provoked by. And that's the problem with using it as the main label for people who act as Foley has.

White House now says it's all just 'naughty emails'.

That naughty person and his naughty emails, like those naughty people and their naughty waterboards. All in the spirit of good fun --it's like a fraternity prank. A naughty fraternity prank.

Or like dipping a lobster in gasoline and setting it on fire and throwing it into your sister's room while she's on the phone and it runs around in circles screaming and pissing all over and getting fire on stuff, --and not that anyone would ever do that, of course.

Calling someone a pervert brings to mind a scene from "Little Shop of Horrors"

Steve Martin plays a sadistic dentist - He loves to inflict pain on others - Bill Murray plays a masochist who has gone to the dentist to have pain inflicted upon himself. When the dentist finally realizes that Murray's character is actually enjoying the pain, the dentist kicks him out of the chair and yells for him to leave, calling him a "Pervert".

so the 1-percent doctrine is dead?

"Before we prosecute let's figure out what all the facts are."

Tony Snow on CNN 10/2/06

TheThirdPaul:

Masochist: Beat me! Hurt me!

Sadist: No.

Bob

Thomas1: . . . oh, and if you don't think Barney Frank has ever lusted after an under-aged boy, you've got another thing coming.

Proffering defamatory and bigoted speculation as truth is par for the course for you, Thomas1.

And, btw, "lusting" after young boys is quite different than stalking them.

That you can't distinguish between the two is revealing about your lack of both character and intellect.

Thomas1: I think I actually said he and anyone who covered up his crimes should be run out of the Capitol

Problem is, you are a serial liar.

Thus, the fact that you wrote something is not only not determinative of your actual position, it is a pretty good indication that you believe the exact opposite when it comes to holding the GOP accountable.

I'm betting Foley has the dirt on the rest of Bushite pedophiles in Congress. I mean, he was "in contact" with allegedly one page who was exploring his sexuality...and I'm guessing that a lot of this is not a secret among certain circles of pages.

So, what we're really going to see here is a lot of the graduating class of 200x who may come forward with all sorts of revelations. Because, if they don't, Foley gets to use the threat of that to keep his own power over the House Leadership...unless they're voted out...in which case, they are all going down in flames anyways.

Thomas1/Charlie: With all the posts I've done recently, how can you possibly think I don't pay attention? As for "love" I do indeed love you as commanded by Jesus Christ Himself -- I "pray" for you too -- let's see what kind of cursing THAT brings on.

Let's take this step by step:

-'Jackass' is a curse?

-You say you "love" me as you have been commanded to do by Jesus. Is there love 'on command'? Do you have any experience with listening to your own heart and freely following it wherever it may lead you? That is to say, do you have any experience with being a free human being responsible for your own behavior?

-"All the posts you've done?" Did you happen to think that there is evidence of paying attention in your posts? You know, Charlie, if you're losing 2 cents on every sale it's difficult to 'make it up on volume.'

cmdicely:

I understand your points. It's not so much that I hold a brief (heh)
for "pervert" as much as that I strongly object to the term "child
predator" for an older guy who had hot chat (perhaps inadvertently)
with a minor. As I say, I don't know if Foley's behavior -- while
clearly sexual harrassment as 3rdPaul suggests (not to mention
sleazy as hell) -- is even actionable if he didn't solicit sex.
Our culture is getting increasingly McCarthyistic especially after
the terrorist bill which allows "evildoers" to be disappeared at
the whim of the executive -- and "child predator" is less than
a notch away from from "terrorist" in the public imagination.

Here's why I think "pervert" isn't so bad, though. First, we don't
exactly know what Foley's particular sickness is. We don't know if
underage boys is a fixation, or just another menu item in his sexual
preference, so "ephebophile" may be a misnomer. We need something
which conveys disgust while being general enough to describe it --
something that urban swingers and pious red staters can understand.

Sexually liberated people may well use "perverted" in a strictly
subjective and even ironic sense (and I've conversed with San Fran
BDSMers on a nationally networked free speech BBS back in the day
who used it in the way you've described) -- but they are very
reluctant to hurl the term "pervert" around, for all the reasons
you and shortstop suggest. Red state Christian might well consider
consensual sex between two adult homosexuals perverted and have no
trouble calling homosexuals perverts. Both groups, though, I think
would have no trouble fitting Foley -- who didn't do this anonymously
but rather with kids he saw every day at work -- into a category which
connotes deviance. It isn't the chat itself that makes it deviant;
it's the abuse of power and blatant disregard of these kid's psyches,
as Foley was also a mentor and father figure they'd look to for help.

"Pervert" is a default term, imperfect to be sure, but something
that conveys the general idea of sexual deviance. If deviance is
a socially constructed concept, people with widely different sexual
values can certainly agree that it would apply to Foley's conduct.

Bob

If there are any more homosexual child molesters in Congress (Republican or Democrat), I think rdw and I are the only ones on the record as wanting to run them all out of town. Why is that, do you think?

Thomas1:

This seems like a pretty strange response to my request that Kevin update his post from one year to five years. However, I'll state my even broader, yet rather obvious, opinion on child molestation.

Child molesters should be put in jail.

I honestly don't care much about towns, or party affiliation of the offender, or the gender of the victims.

Though I don't speak for others on this board, I suspect most people here believe in the criminal justice system too. So being "on-the record" for something that is self-evident is pretty silly. That's probably why you aren't getting many takers.

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy. All the other bunk is pablum.

And in yet another first prize award for "Let's Not Step Up To The Plate And Instead Say Really Stupid Things" category:

"“This is a political problem, and we need to step up and do something dramatic,” Representative Ray LaHood of Illinois said afterward, adding that he had proposed abolishing the Congressional page program."

Yes, Ray La Hood wins the blue ribbon. Maybe he's soon to be gone from Congress too? One can only hope...

And in yet another first prize award for "Let's Not Step Up To The Plate And Instead Say Really Stupid Things" category:

"“This is a political problem, and we need to step up and do something dramatic,” Representative Ray LaHood of Illinois said afterward, adding that he had proposed abolishing the Congressional page program."

Yes, Ray La Hood wins the blue ribbon. Maybe he's soon to be gone from Congress too? One can only hope...

And in yet another first prize award for "Let's Not Step Up To The Plate And Instead Say Really Stupid Things" category:

"“This is a political problem, and we need to step up and do something dramatic,” Representative Ray LaHood of Illinois said afterward, adding that he had proposed abolishing the Congressional page program."

Yes, Ray La Hood wins the blue ribbon. Maybe he's soon to be gone from Congress too? One can only hope...

Sorry. I think my packets were feeding through some sort of black-ops monitoring server there...sorry. Totally my fault.

The Washington Times has called for the Speaker to resign and be replaced by another Illinois Representative, Henry Hyde. But don't take my word for it, ask your chief of staff.

I understand your points. It's not so much that I hold a brief...

Bob,

I hate to say this because I'm generally sympathetic to your politics, but you have an overwhelming habit of talking a lot and saying extremely little.

obscure:

And I'm not sure I hate to say this (cuz it's true), but most of the time your posts seem to be filled with snark and personal attacks without much contribution to the discussion.

I mean ... I like to bash trolls as much as the next guy. Ad-hominem is fun. But I like to move the discussion along, too.

Do you have anything to *say* about my argument, obscure?

Because if so, it might be interesting to hear it.

Bob

obscure:

Or better yet: Do you have any idea what I was trying to say?

Because dollars to donuts (and whether he agrees or not), cmdicely does. He was the guy I was having that discussion with.

Bob