It's not about politics Kevin, it's about right and wrong. The vast majority of pedophilia is done by men to boys. Therefore, the people who need to be watched most closely are gays. Even if it hurts teh republicans politically, they're willing to do what it takes to protect children.

...it will help them promote the Limbaugh/Hannity storyline that this whole affair is just a dirty trick by Democrats who have known about Foley all along but waited to spring the news until a few weeks before an election...

Uh, it will also help them promote the fact that the sky is blue and grass is usually green. Someone has been sitting on these IM's for three years, then drops them on the last day of the congressional calendar. Nothing to see here, move along now...

I don't think "subtle" and "Republican" belong in the same sentence.

Republicans are only wishing that Foley could say "Yes, I admit that Jennifer Flowers was my mistress." or, "Yes, I did have sex with that woman."

Bud: If Dems knew all about this, why did John Shimkus go to such pains to keep the sole Democrat on the page panel from hearing the complaints about Foley's emails? Republicans, at any rate, seemed to think that this was a closely held secret.

"... a bunch of gay guys. And we know all about them, don't we?"

That they're always Democrats? This seems to be the spin emanating from Wingerland. Foley is gay; Democrats support gays; therefore, Democrats are to blame.

Do Republican office holders "have sex with that woman?"

The real bombshell that is lurking around the corner is the affair Foley had with Hastert and Dobson. That will be the end of the GOP for a generation.

American Hawk, why are you talking about pedophilia? That wasn't the problem with Foley.

Foley's problem was lechery. Are you gonna say that the majority of lechers are homosexual?

C'mon, admit it hawk, your internet cache is full of file names like "japanese_schoolgirl.jpg" and "naughty_cheerleader.gif".

Shazaam! I get it now!

When Foley says he was abused by "clergy", he means Dobson!

Of course! It's so obvious! Dobson took him in the shower and showed him how to shove a square peg into a round hole, or whatever his sick book said.

Case closed. Bring on the elections.

C'mon, admit it hawk, your internet cache is full of file names like "japanese_schoolgirl.jpg" and "naughty_cheerleader.gif".

Ok, but what's your point?

Kevin, you nailed the main point and then walked on by, i think. the point is to make the cover up of Foley's actions seem to be a "gay" thing and not a "We'll do anything to keep a congressional majority, even look the other way while Mark Foley romances 16 year old boys because he's a Republican" thing. I mean, it seems obvious that the disclosure of foley's actual conduct loses them one seat, while the news that the house leadership sat on this in order to save the seat threatens a whole bounch of them.

Bud, the ABC reporter has stated many times now that his sources were former pages... read NOT DEMOCRATS.

Furthermore, it is not as if anyone was secretly saving these conversations on purpose. The IM software saves these conversations in a log file. Just like your email software.

Man, the Repugs are all about the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy nowadays... Sheesh.

No, American Hawk, most adult molestation of children is committed by straight males on girls.

And the Colorado and Amish school atrocities were committed by straight males who held grudges against women. Should be lay the blame for this on all straight men?

Rubbiah. Also, nearly all the instances of male on boy molestation is done by deeply closeted men who have been forced (in their view) to hide their
homosexuality, but, because all of us need outlets, horrifyingly and wrongly go after those they feel they can control and force to keep quiet. End homophobia and you will end most gay molesting.

American Hawk:It's not about politics Kevin, it's about right and wrong. The vast majority of pedophilia is done by men to boys. Therefore, the people who need to be watched most closely are gays. Even if it hurts teh republicans politically, they're willing to do what it takes to protect children.

Yeah, so the Republican politicians kept the gay pedophiles working as staffers in congress, away from the rest of the country where they could do some harm.

Man, the Repugs are all about the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy nowadays... Sheesh.

If they can't see themselves as victims, their heads explode.

"Look, look at all this power we have. Boo hoo. We control the whole government, yet everything is going completelyh wrong. Boo hoo. Let's blame the Democrats the media the sun spots the fags the brown people anyone but the people who are actually in charge. boo hoo."

Losers.

Does one really need to look any further than:
a. it gets everyone to focus on something else
b. it is a way to avoid taking responsibility

Really, the whole of politics is made up of conversations of a teenager: "It's not my fault." "He made me do it" etc. The most adult conversation I've heard in a long time (on the national stage) was when Richard Clarke apologized for failing to do his job and preventing 9/11.

You know, i'd also wonder if we should use the term "gay" which is generally self-adopted by people who publicly claim their homosexuality, for someone who secretly pursues people of the same sex while holding forth a public anti-gay agenda. it certainly doesn't have anything to do witht he way the term "gay" is used politically,, as in "gay rights." that's all aobut claiming an identity and demanding to be recognized as that and a full citizen as well.

Anyway, the Foley scandal is not in any serious way a "gay thing" in that what's wrong with it isn't the same sex nature of the conduct, it's the pursuit of someone who's vulnerable and underage by someone who's powerful and, well, old and creepy. that and the cover up of that behavior by senior Republican leadership willing to look the other way in order to keep the seat.

Its not about politics, just about right and wrong, that's what you believe American Hawk? Then why did Rep Alexander take his concerns to the head of the NRCC when a constituence complained of "sick, sick, sick" e-mails from a a colleague? Everyone has known Foley was gay for years, why did the leadership take him at his word in 2005 that the e-mails asking for pictures of 16 yearold and stating that a 16 year old had a "hot body" were just overly friendly but not indicative of a 52 year old man looking to sleep with teenagers.

Could it be they wanted to retain the seat and not spend money doing so (and in fact receive money through Foley's donations to the caucus and invididual candidates). And where would the leadership get the idea that they could effectively cover it up. Why, because there has been problems with Foley and the pages for ten years but it never came to light. This was all about politics, the republicans made a political calculation to protect their majority instead of protecting children in their charge.

They arrogantly believed they could get away with it because no one had printed anything about Foley's inappropriate actions in ten years. Open your eyes, you can still hate democrats even if you see the truth of what actually happened here.

Hastert is desperate. the staffer(s) who tried to protect him by burying this are now trying to protect him by putting it on Fordham and others.

Hopeless pedant is absolutely right. Most molestation is of young girls by straight men. And it is the GOP demonization of gays that makes men like Foley feel they have to be in the closet and can't have open relationships with adult men. So they try to attach themselves to boys who they feel will keep quiet about it and whom they can control. Out gay men who have relationships aren't the molestors.

I'm willing to bet that within a few days we're going to hear about a Democratic sex criminal in Congress. They've gotta be dredging like crazy. (Not Frank or some other old moldy scandal, but something new. It's gotta happen, they need it so bad.)

"No worse than the Democrats" has been their slogan for a long time.

I read somewhere else something like: Does anyone think it is ironic that so-called progressives who excoriated eavesdropping on terrorists are feasting on the publication of supposedly confidential email and IMs?.

Yeah, certainly ironic...and damn hypocritical. Good luck with your Karma folks.

UofAZGrad:

Open your eyes, you can still hate democrats even if you see the truth of what actually happened here.

Yeah, but then "American Hawk" won't get his Netvocates check.

Don't bother arguing with the trolls; you cannot reach them. They're being paid to post.

Assuming this is true I think this is further evidence of the desperation within the House GOP. I mean really, this network of closeted gay GOPers is not exactly something that was unknown about prior to the Foley resignation. Indeed many of the brighter GOPers these days are among this group, including it is believed the current GOP head Ken Mehlman. As for the reasoning behind it, it is a Hail Mary play I'd say to deflect the anger to a subsection that can be "cleaned out" by the more "responsible" GOPers as damage control. This is bleeding the GOP a great deal, I suspect the main reason the polls haven't shown much yet is akin to when a really deep injury happens the shock effect delays feeling it. This is like Schiavo, this is something the average American can personally relate to and understand unlike most of the current serious political issues of the time. Therefore the longer this is able to wound the senior House leadership and have the potential to go beyond it (FBI reluctance because of Executive branch perhaps?) the more irretrievable the election and indeed the longer term future to 08 election cycle becomes to the GOP.

I tend to agree with you how this would play out within the GOP and without, although I would qualify the former with the fact that many in that base have demonstrated a remarkable ability to be convinced of falsities and to displace justifiable anger to their opposition/enemies rather than face a painful truth about themselves/their party. Given that it is possible this could work to staunch some of the bleeding at the expense yet again of their favourite minority for exploiting, gay people. This time though if they do this to their own I think it will seal the fate of the GOP within even Gay conservative circles, especially with the automatic implication that gay male=pedophile desires. As Stewart said on his show the other night the reason the GOP gets the reputation for gay bashing is by doing this, this being said in rebuttal to the Hastert defence of claiming to investigate could leave them open to charges of "gay bashing".

In any event it is a sad commentary on the state of American political discourse and the environment it operates in that it takes this sort of scandal to really outrage the average American instead of the much more egregious examples of torture, murder, war of choice under false pretenses and then not fighting that war competently or even with clear intent to actually win, violation of civil liberties, denial of due process of law, and the essential gutting of the Constitution he swore to defend by the arrogation of unheard of and uncheckable powers to the Executive branch because of "wartime" powers they claim they have. That said though and even because of that said given the severity of these matters whatever succeeds in dealing the GOP a crippling loss in Congress to check and oversee this Imperial Presidency cannot be ignored, especially when it taints the leadership as it does in this case. It is their actions that make this truly political "fair game" despite the whining of some that this should be left alone because it is unfairly partisan to do so (which when coming from GOPers is truly ironic indeed).

Josh marshall suggests here that the point is to trash Fordham:

"There have been a number of signals through the course of the day that the last gambit of the GOP House leadership will be to blame the Foley debacle on a cabal of gay staffers who hid and/or enabled Rep. Foley's behavior for years. The idea being that they are to blame rather than the leadership.

That may sound like a plot turn out of a bad novel. But with the times we're living in I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

Fordham, the staffer who just turned on Hastert, is openly gay, as is at least one other central player in the drama. Fordham's word now threatens to take down the whole House leadership. So they're going to throw everything at him."

Which seems fairly obvious to me. Are you jsut playing "make us guess" Kevin, or does this actually puzzle you? just asking.

and, Hopeless Pedant and Uof AZ grad, thanks for knocking the hawk down. I was trying to restrain myself, not feed the trolls and all, but that needed to be said.

American Hawk is more akin to a turkey ... or would that be a chickenhawk? What a preposterous load of crap "The vast majority of pedophilia is done by men to boys." Please cite a legitimate statistic for that claim. And no, the Family Research Council doesn't count as legitimate. And his claim about "it's not politics, it's about right and wrong" ... I spewed my keyboard. Keep 'em coming, that's an argument that will no doubt resonate with the non-wingnut portion(i.e., 70%) of the electorate.

Thinking back to sex scandals from both political sides, it seems to me that most Democratic scandals involve consenting adults (Clinton, Hart, Frank) while Republicans are mostly about kinky conservative geezers going after children (in most cases male-to-male, as with the Catholic church), prostitutes, etc.

The inescapable conclusion is that conservatives are a bunch of perverts, which explains why they are so obsessed with sex. A lot of them are so transparently twisted. I mean, Dobson, with his effeminate gestures and high voice is so obviously a repressed queen. Don't you think?

"It's not about politics Kevin, it's about right and wrong. The vast majority of pedophilia is done by men to boys. Therefore, the people who need to be watched most closely are gays. Even if it hurts teh republicans politically, they're willing to do what it takes to protect children."

Yes, Hawk. Adult men never make inappropriate advances on 16 year old girls. Nope. Never happens.

Subtle? Are you a fucking moron?

Since when has the GOP ever used subtle?

They are throwing shit, any shit, against the wall in hopes that something sticks.

The only silver lining from the GOP point of view is that this allows some distraction from the revelations that Bush, Rice, and Cheney are now PROVED beyond doubt to be incompetent liars who allowed 9-11 to happen through shear neglect (not that this will come as a surprise to most of us).

Well, let's throw another motivation into the mix. Say I'm a true beliver republican who comes to work on the Hill and discovers that there are homosexual staffers in the offices of republican members.

Beyond the shock of discovering the "enemy within," it also occurs to me thast these fags are an impediment to my advancement. And then a unique opportunity presents itself to shove them aside.

It seems to me, by the way, that one of the unique things about this imbroglio (There I've done it! I've used "imbroglio" in a sentence!) is that staffers have been drawn into it as players instead of their usual back-stage roles.

American Hawk doesn't remember Congressman Crane of Illinois.

So, having scrambled desperately--and failed utterly--to deflect blame for covering up for a child predator for years, their latest plan is to blame it on the gay guys in the Republican caucus, knowing that their bigoted base of idiots can't distinguish between homosexuality and pedophilia?

Is there no depth to the GOP leadership's depravity?

And the gay GOP congressmen and staffers are expected to, what, go down without a fight? It would be pretty funny if they started announcing where all the hetero bodies are buried, wouldn't it?

blog active has been working this beat for a while.

meanwhile CWA says it is all the fault of ACLU and their friends at NAMBLA. Not joking. that was their representative on on NPR this afternoon.

What the...

Shortstop! There's a regular I remember? Where's your snarky pal Craigie?

Can we can it with the 'velvet mafia' term? The proper term is "swishing, mincing enablers of Congressional page buggery."

And, I swear to God--if anyone starts in with the Richard Gere/gerbil jokes, I'm outta here. But only temporarily.

ABC has gone on record as saying that they did NOT get the story (or the IMessages/emails) from a Democrat.

Kevin, what you're missing is that Republicans in Congress threw the children of their biggest contributors and supporters (that's who pages are, the children of major political contributors) into the path of a middle-aged homosexual who likes young boys. There has already been a report that the parents of one of the pages claims to have been "threatened."

I think that the Republican machine is desperately chumming anywhere that it can to get the media off of that trail, before republican voters make that connection.

"The problem is he's gay" seems to be the current talking point. Paul Weyrich was interviewed on NPR trying to make the case that the leadership's error was in allowing a homosexual to roam free when it's an established fact that homosexuals are preoccupied with sex. I was initially astonished and then - well - not so much. I suspected it might be part of an effort to shift the debate from "GOP predator" to "gays bad."

"Case closed. Bring on the elections".

I think you mean bring on the erections.

American Hawk,

Did you have fun at your conference…what do you want for your birthday coming up…what stuff do you like to do.
How are you weathering the hurricane…are you safe…send me an email pic of you as well.

How big is your beak?
Can you measure it for me?

Or is there some subtler game being played that I can't figure out?

Look, they haven't had time to be subtle, even if they had the talent -- which of course they don't. This is obviously just a cockamamie story they made up in the throes of a panic.

And you're of course right if they think this crazy-ass story is going to help them in the slightest -- at least not the larger Republican Party. They've basically guaranteed that this story remains dominating the news for weeks on end -- weeks they cannot possibly afford to give away to such damaging news.

What strikes me about these stories is how much they are designed entirely to protect the hides of the Republican leadership, even if it's at the expense of the Republican Party more broadly.

These vermin in the leadership will do ANYTHING to protect their positions -- which of course was the problem to begin with. If they had any really care about the Republican Party itself, they'd resign as quickly as possible and try to put this story to rest ASAP, instead of turning it into only more of a soap opera, thereby prolonging it.

If these creatures were on the Titanic, they'd be the ones elbowing out the women and children to save their own stinking skins.

Really, how disgusting can you get?

Perhaps it's emblematic of how much contempt for its base establishment Republicans have. Yeah, the dumb crackers, they'll buy the gay mafia.

Everything the Republicans have done in mishandling this crisis - from whenever someone first figured out Foley was acting inappropriately through right now - is emblematic of their philosophy of power: it's rightfully theirs, and DAMN, this whole charade of pretending to embrace the values of crackerdom because of this whole nuisance of democracy, what a frigging pain in the ass.

When you have contempt for democracy (not to mention for the constitution), and you've won election by pandering to the worst instincts in voters, is it surprising that in a crisis you go right back to the sewer?

Hints of the GOTV strategy. Rove's October Surprise through the back door? If so, I've got my doubts about this one working for Karla this time. I don't really see a massive wave of evangelicals going to the polls in a non-presidential cycle to make sure the gay mafia in Washington, hired and working for their representatives, are weeded out. No, this would have to be too ridiculous to contemplate as a strategy, and I welcome them to improvise and go ahead with it. I really can't see independent and moderate voters having anything but negative impressions about this whole affair, and focused on Republicans.

It was odd to hear over and over on CNN yesterday discussions about the difficulties of maintaining a "gay lifestyle" in Washington. One would suppose that a truly liberal media would have long ago accepted that homosexuality is not a "lifestyle", and not refer to it as such. If homosexuality truly is a choice and lifestyle, we're definitely going to have to revise our theories about animals and culture, in order to explain how animals apparently have independently innovated gay lifestyles, or have lifestyles at all.

Boy, American Hawk is divorced from reality: "The vast majority of pedophilia is done by men to boys," he claims.

Not true. Ask any former little girl. Lots of famous and not so famous cases. Former District Attorney of Kings County (Brooklyn), zillions of mothers' live in boyfriends get prosecuted regularly, and so on. I would bet, in fact, that the amount of man-girl pedophilia is about ten times that of man-boy pedophilia. That's sure true in the child pornography prosecutions, by the way (although nowhere near all those guys are anything like pedophiles, in the narrower meaning of that term).

Are there girl pages? I'm sort of surprised we haven't heard from them yet.

So the working theory is that the Republican strategists made up a list and passed it to their natural ally, David Corn?

Jiminy. Anyone care to bet on a seemingly obvious alternative - the same guys who have been outing gay Republicans for years will out some more?

Or is that too unlikely?

I am specifically thinking of BlogActive.com, which in its front page fund-raising appeal has this message:

"Please help me with this effort. We have five weeks to save our nation from these right wing homophobes in the closet -- and there are more in Congress!"

Well, I can see why you want to pretend that it is not Dems engaging in this sexual McCarthyism, but honestly...

frankly0:What strikes me about these stories is how much they are designed entirely to protect the hides of the Republican leadership, even if it's at the expense of the Republican Party more broadly. These vermin in the leadership will do ANYTHING to protect their positions -- which of course was the problem to begin with.

Exactly. Which is why if Lieberman wins and caucuses with the Republicans, he'd be such a natural fit.

PR: Where's your snarky pal Craigie?

Presumably crying over the Dodgers. And Paul will be here any minute to mock the Twins. Get ready.

So where's Al?

What to make of this? Here's a wild guess.

Why guess? The information is escaping confinement.

Remember all that fruitless guessing about Fitzgerald, Libby, and Rove?

Anyway, the irony is that while Foley and the Republicans are hypocritical, the Democrats are hypocritically trying to score points from behavior that they don't even think is bad, much less illegal: Clinton, Condit and Stubbs all had interns, and the Democrats mostly didn't care.

So where's Al?

His cognitive dissonance reached critical mass and his head exploded?

4 words Kevin.

Every.Man.For.Himself

Remember, this isn't only about party at this point...this is about potentially saying the wrong thing and losing your cushy job as a Congressperson....

this disaster will feed on itself for at least the next 5 days...maybe longer...

and then of course we attack Iran and all will be forgiven...wait did I just say that?? That wouldn't happen...would it???

Shorter Old Coot and American Hawk:

He may be a pederast but he is our pederast.

Rove's October Surprise through the back door?

Funniest unintentional pun o' the day.

People, people, people--the most prominent closeted gay man in America is Karl Rove. Oh, and Drudge. Drudge is a degenerate.

Pale Rider knows many gay people, served with quite a few in the military, and they have nothing to do with what's going on. A gay man is far less likely to molest a child than a "heterosexual" male, and I use the term loosely because anyone who molests children doesn't have a healthy sexual identity.

Where's the outcry? They're trying to link Foley to a gay community that exists in name only, aka a velvet mafia. Brings to mind Liberace and flowing mink robes--no one could possibly have imagined that Liberace was gay! And how long before we have to sit through more hush-hush bullshit about Rep. Dreier?

The phrase that works for me:

"It's the hypocrisy, stupid!"

A sexual predator in charge of writing the laws to protect kids from sexual predators? And his bosses knew about it?

Uffda!

So the working theory is that the Republican strategists made up a list and passed it to their natural ally, David Corn?

Corn hasn't actually written anything on this topic, has he?

I read somewhere else something like: Does anyone think it is ironic that so-called progressives who excoriated eavesdropping on terrorists are feasting on the publication of supposedly confidential email and IMs?.

That dog don't hunt, Old Coot, but I'm sure that it won't stop the more enthusiastic of Hannity's and Limbaugh's fans from repeating it.

A more accurate comparison would be Linda Tripp's taping her conversations with Monica Lewinsky. If you had no problem with that (and I'm going to take a wild guess that you didn't), you shouldn't have any problem with this.

At each junction where Republicans have lowered the bar (and it was Republicans who lowered the threshhold for expectations of privacy), Americans have meekly resigned themselves to the way that Conservatives are shaping our lives. We seem to have forgotten that it doesn't have to be this way, as Republicans dictate. On a day when we should be out marching on Washington for passing the Torture Bill, and the Patriot Act is being used by prosecutors for everything but keeping Americans safe from terrorism, we're talking about a pathetic and troubled man who has risen to a position of tremendous power in the U.S. - just one of many within the Republican party.

Pale Rider: no one could possibly have imagined that Liberace was gay!

Liberace was gay? Now I'm really disillusioned.

papago,

I wanted to thank you for finally bringing up the Condit Affair. Perhaps someone can go back through the archives and post all the commentary by the Republican Leadership now that was made then. The "liberal" media seems to have missed that one but you didn't. Thanks, again.

I suspect the namecalling and accusation-flinging this October is going to make the Swift Boating of Kerry look like a yearbook signing party.

Just a hunch.

I mean with Fox putting up Foley's picture and calling him a Democrat. And Hannity saying that Monica Lewinsky was 19.

Lies, my friends, are going to be as thick as fallen leaves.

Check out the Republican defenders here. They know.

First, Rove has probably already talked with Bush about his new plan to take care of this fiasco. It is called Night of the Long Knives II.

Second, Until a very large lady sings, one never mocks. Plus, the Twins are a great organization.

Yes, I can be far, far better than someone out there in cyber land.

From the site that posted Foley's emails (see TPM latest post and follow the link):

My dad who gives a lot of money to republicans got me an internship capitolhill. I thought that I was hot shit, having such a good internship after myfreshman year of college.After a few weeks, I was finally learning my way around DC and I wasenjoying my job.One night, I decided to go out with my new fake ID to my first gay bar.I went to this bar named Coblot.There was old guy who would not leave me alone. He kept following me around.I tried to get him to leave me alone by going to the bathroom.Instead he followed me in and tried to grope me.A few days later my boss had me run something over to another congressmansoffice. It turned out that the guy who groped me was Representative MarkFoley.

Kevin might like "tortilla curtain"... but "skintern" has a certain "ass"onance too.

Liberace was gay? Now I'm really disillusioned.

I know! I shat myself when I learned that.

Honestly, if Foley was gay, the last thing he would be doing is trying to chase some kid around. He'd have plenty of opportunities in Florida or DC to enter into a healthy relationship with another man--the DC area has a thriving gay community and a strong social network, if that was what he chose.

Foley is sick, and that's his problem. If he was actually just gay, he wouldn't pose any kind of issue whatsoever.

Again, a grown man who gets on the Internet and does the sex chat thing with someone who he knows isn't of age isn't operating with a healthy sexual identity. And he's a hypocrite if he also happens to be a part of the Republican Party.

it's an established fact that homosexuals are preoccupied with sex.

Well that finally explains Paul Weyrich. He's a Martian.

I have known straight men and I have known homosexual men. They are all preoccupied by sex. That's just the way men are.

They could be lying bleeding and battered, with broken bones, in the street, having just been hit by a truck, and if there's a chance to have sex, they'll put off going to the hospital and morphine.

If Paul Weyrich isn't (preoccupied by sex), I would suggest that he see his physician, get a physical and his hormones levels checked.

And behold, Bob Ney on the White Horse, Duke Cunningham on the horse that was Red, Tom DeLay on the Black horse and Mark Foley on the Pale Horse. However, within a few days this could become the Charge of the Light Brigade.

Hastert is toast
AP Revelation Means Trouble for Hastert
By Paul Kiel - October 4, 2006, 5:32 PM
House Speaker Dennis Hastert's (R-IL) alibi for failing to address Mark Foley's follies is toast, as Greg points out over at Election Central.
Kirk Fordham's revelation that House Speaker Dennis Hastert's (R-IL) staff was warned about the "worrisome conduct" of Mark Foley with teenage pages back in 2004 completely explodes Hastert's explanation for why his office didn't do more in the fall of 2005.
The House Speaker has argued that Foley's emails that came to light in 2005 weren't sufficiently explicit to warrant action -- in stark contrast to the sexual IM conversations, the emails were merely "over-friendly." But in the context of prior specific warnings about Foley, such an explanation seems even weaker -- even dishonest….
MSNBC had a couple of interviews that stated that Hastert would not be the Speaker of the House by this time next week. Throwing him under the bus too? Wouldn't that damage a poor innocent bus?

parrot: Perhaps someone can go back through the archives and post all the commentary by the Republican Leadership now that was made then.

I think I already noted that the Republicans were hypocrites. I think I also said that the Democrats were hypocrites.

I do not mean "most" Republicans or "most" Democrats, only that there are plenty of hypocrites in each party.

All organizations have trouble punishing the bad behavior of their own members: Republicans, Democrats, doctors, lawyers. That's why we make our system adversarial rather than cooperative.

This time around, the Democrats are making the Republicans eat crow. Foley is out, and Hastert may lose the Speakership. The timing may be intentional to hurt the Republicans in the upcoming vote. However, the Democrats have their own problems. I expect the Republicans to retain their majorities, barely; it sure wouldn't hurt if they returned having suffered humiliations in the polls and the press.

The vast majority of pedophilia is done by Republicans. Therefore, the people who need to be watched most closely are Republicans.

it's an established fact that homosexuals are preoccupied with sex.

Bullshit.

They're preoccupied by what you're wearing and why you chose the shoes you're wearing because, obviously, you don't mix plaids and stripes.

Seriously, if Foley actually is gay--and I suspect that he is sexually confused or merely a degenerate--he wouldn't be having a problem in the world right now. If he was a gay man with a healthy sexual identity, he'd be in a relationship; he wouldn't be engaged in pursuing a predatorial relationship of a purely sexual nature with a 16 year old boy.

It's not whether he's gay. Hello, it looks like he broke the laws he helped write. It's the hypocrisy.

Mark Foley on the Pale Horse.

Whoa, stupid git. I'm riding the Pale Horse and I'm dragging the carcass of his career up Boot Hill.

koreyel: I decided to go out with my new fake ID to my first gay bar.

We might be hearing and reading a bunch more stuff like that. Foley is still a guilty creep, but if you go to a gay bar on purpose on a false id, how are you "innocent"?

Pale Rider,

I thought you rode an Appy - I believe that in Greek, Pale was more of a green. These new Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse of the Publicans are the forerunners of the stampede to follow this week.

Instead of a circular firing squad, they appear to be more of an Everyman for himself, firing their pistols wildly over their shoulders.

This is not a Nathan Bedford Forrest moment of when surrounded, splitting his force in two and charging madly in opposite directions at the enemy. This is a suddenly remembering that it is harvest time back home and firing blindly at any Provost Marshal following. It is high time to protect their crops, er votes.

The vast majority of pedophilia is done by men to boys.

Patently false.

Shall I say it? The Republican leadership have materially aided our enemies in time of war. And just last week, we couldn't have had them rounded up and jailed secretly without charges. Karma is a pesky bitch. With all the Limbaugh sex vacations, Jeff Gannon exclusives, and Katherine Harris profile shots, who could be surprised at the mess these folks have made of their party?

Speaking of Gannon, maybe someone can actually do some reporting now? I mean a paid male prostitute roaming the West Wing for months without signing out? Does anyone believe he was just there as a cub reporter now? There are more closets in the White House than most figured. . .

The vast majority of pedophilia is done by men to boys. /em>

Am I going to hell now? I've lived in Texas under Bush, so I can take it.

My guess is that someone said the network of gay members and staffers protected Foley because they thought it was true, which it might be. Kevin and others always think there is some calculated strategy/tactic behind everthing -- not always true.

Damnit! Lets try that again:
The vast majority of pedophilia is done by men to boyswhen the clergy is involved

Corn hasn't actually written anything on this topic, has he?

You may have to follow the links - Kevin links to Marshall who links to Corn's defense of outing gay Republcians (even though Corn personaly disapproves).

So the full working theory is that crazed evangelical Repugs worked up a list of gay staffers, then leaked it to David Corn. he choked back his disgust at this sexual McCarthyism and penned a few paragraphs rationalizing their effort becuase, uhh, he likes to support evangelical Republicans when he can....

Anyway, here is Corn:

"I have a copy. I'm not going to publish it. For one, I don't know for a fact that the men on the list are gay. And generally I don't fancy outing people--though I have not objected when others have outed gay Republicans, who, after all, work for a party that tries to limit the rights of gays and lesbians and that welcomes the support of those who demonize same-sexers.

...Let's be clear about one thing: the Mark Foley scandal is not about homosexuality. Some family value conservatives are suggesting it is. But anytime a gay Republican is outed by events, a dicey issue is raised: what about those GOPers who are gay and who serve a party that is anti-gay? Are they hypocrites, opportunists, or just confused individuals? Is it possible to support a party because you adhere to most of its tenets--even if that party refuses to recognize you as a full citizen? The men on The List might want to think hard about these questions--as they probably already have--for if I have a copy of The List, there's a good chance it will be appearing soon on a website near everyone."

Please don't tell me Corn is saying that this is an outrageous, indefensible idea coming from nutjubs on the right.

But regardless - why not ask Kevin to state loudly and clearly that he opposes this sort of sexual McCarthyism? If it it coming from the right, that should be easy, yes?

I assume we are all in agreement that this idea is abhorent - privacy, sexuality no one else's business, etc.

Chances are that this plan will go nowhere. Why? Because a mass outing of Congressional GOP gays will just end up outing even more people, and causing more grief.

I imagine Ken Mehlman is overseeing the counterattack.

If you follow the bouncing scandals, there is quite often something calculated behind many things.

when the clergy is involved

Global even that is far from true, but I suppose you were in high snark.

As an out gay male who works with teens, I am getting ready for some interesting times. It seems that the Rethug counter attack will be, "Hey, don't blame us. All we did is trust a gay guy. Here is Paul Weyrich on NPR giving the party line:

Listen Here

I was in high snark - and I should have made it Catholic clergy.

And I do not envy you right now.

You may have been here in the past when I praised my "Uncle Billy and Aunt Richard" for the example of a committed relationship they set when I was growing up. (Dad was Navy - my parents were not together every day like the two of them, and staked out territory when Dad was on shore.)

They have been together for as long as I can remember, and I'm 43...Soon to be 44. So no, no harm intended.:) I love both of them with all my heart, and for the life of me can not see how it would harm my marriage if they were allowed to share a matrimonial bond. I think after 40 years they have earned the right, don't you?

I heard that and almost fell off my chair, Keith. Can I just appologize now to all gay people everywhere for the way certain members of my species are poised to start acting. I see it coming, and it is sickening. It has all the class and social graces of an Abramof-produced movie.

Strange that the Grand Old Perversion Party can have gay behind the scenes staffers on the hill, but can't abide any in the military, even Arabic translators.

By the way to that Family Research Council shill who posted above, pedophiles do not like adults - they like children - And remember the blonde female school teacher from Florida or Mary La T from Washington - They both are women and they liked young boys. There is an actor out there who happens to be Republican - Has played a lot of macho rolls over the years - I knew an actress who worked with him once and thought he was a dream. When I asked her if she was going to date him, she replied, "Are you kidding, he only likes them under 16." In 2004, he was on Crossfire defending Bush because they were both pilots.

Make that "our species." Sheesh, I need coffee.

it's an established fact that homosexuals are preoccupied with sex.

As opposed to straight men, who can take or leave sex....

I say publish The List. Hypocrites don't deserve protection from the very forces they hypocritically serve.

No, don't publish the list--that's what they do. (people like Coulter and Malkin).

We're better than they are.

Paul-3 - the ecoterrorist chicks pleaded guilty today. Earth First promptly put up billboards in Oregon with their pictures, calling them informants.

it's an established fact that homosexuals are preoccupied with---

looking good while dancing, actually.

I read somewhere else something like: Does anyone think it is ironic that so-called progressives who excoriated eavesdropping on terrorists are feasting on the publication of supposedly confidential email and IMs?.

Since the eavesdropping is illegally done by a government agency without a warrant, and the putlication of the email and IMs was done legally by a private citizen, then no, it's not ironic.

The GOP counterattack is initially less gameplanned than trial and error. The tactic merely involves kicking dust in all directions, obscuring the main points of the controversy, and testing the efficacy of the various defenses. Eventually, they'll find the ones that resonate best and use those repetitively. Once the media begins compliantly reporting their defenses, they turn the tables and accuse the other guys (usually Democrats, but not always) of engineering the original controversy.

We've seen this strategy in all GOP scandals. The textbook example is the Plame outing. What matters is keeping the machinery of manipulation running full bore. Drowning the controversy with other noise, new "facts", and various conspiracy theories accomplishes much more than lawyerly defenses. In the end, even if the scandal is not resolved the public believes it was never that serious to begin with.

Oh, speaking of gay stereotypes, today I adopted two kittens, nearly identical sisters, from a local shelter. The girls are named Meredeth and Izzy.

On youtube, if you need a smile:

Meredeth

Izzy

You look at their motives and how the story should rationally play to certain constituencies. Big mistake. The Republican constituency is able to hold a lot of cognitive dissonance together. George Bush is a great leader, being the first. Anything Newt and Bill and Tom and Denny float by those pavlovian dogs will do. I think they are due for a rude awakening, but I'm not sure this is it.

Those kitties are too cute - I have a black cat myself - no she is not my Familiar - her name is Phoebe. If I videoed her, it would be of her lazy ass sleeping on a black futon, so what would be the point.

I assume we are all in agreement that this idea is abhorent - privacy, sexuality no one else's business, etc.

I think that if you're in the business of making law for other people to live by, your own life should be an open book, and you should be living the life that you are working to make everyone else live. It is the basis for this democratic covenant.

To make the question more relevant to my life's experience, I changed it to "If you knew that anti-choice Republicans in office had had abortions and were denying it, would you publish their names and medical records?"

In a NY hot flash.

And, I swear to God--if anyone starts in with the Richard Gere/gerbil jokes, I'm outta here. But only temporarily.

I bet Orrin Hatch knows his way around a gerbil.

Social conservatives can understand only themselves, so I think its telling that Republicans first reaction was to presume it all had to be some nefarious conspiracy of Democrats to undo them.

We should remember this the next time a Democrat falls into some bizarre scandal.

And for the record, I'm gay, and I'm all in favor of outing the "velvet" mafia. They are grown men and women who are at least partly out of the closet. They can hack it. What's the big deal? If Republicans are not bigots, as the log cabin folks often contend, they've got nothing to worry about.
BTW, I'm betting Matt Drudge is the leader of that little crime family.

Gay stereotypes and kittens? Son, I say, son, my wife and I have six cats ranging in age from 12 to just a little over a year. Amazing when we adopted the kitten last year, how she brought new life and play to the others. She and a 10 year old male are constant wrestling partners.

Well done, sir.

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As to black cats,

Firefox Halloween theme,

https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/1360/

Question: If soliciting sex from minors is a crime, and you are warned that one of your employees/colleagues might be engaged in that type of thing, isn't it a crime for you to 1) Keep it a secret from the authorities. 2) Fail to do anything to remove the employee/colleague from access to the illegal activity (i.e. access to the pages)?

shortstop >"...It would be pretty funny if they started announcing where all the hetero bodies are buried, wouldn't it?

Ohhhh, please, oh pretty, pretty please with real sugar on top

Miles >"...I think you mean bring on the erections."

Too messy

frankly0 >"...how disgusting can you get?"

I don`t think we are there yet

Global Citizen >"...I've lived in Texas under Bush, so I can take it."

you might want to rephrase that; just sayin

Maeven >"..."If you knew that anti-choice Republicans in office had had abortions and were denying it, would you publish their names and medical records?"

In a NY hot flash."

We would be in a race to be first

Sooo, I`m wondering what the folks over at the NSA might have in all those intercepts they have been stashing away so those evil "terrorists" can be monitored; ya suppose there might be some incriminating stuff on some CongressCritters ?

Think so ?

"If you don't behave as you believe, you will end by believing as you behave." - Bishop Fulton John Sheen

Has anyone checked the kerning on these IM messages?

Meanwhile, back at the yawning void of Democratic foreign policy...

Tom Maguire on October 4, 2006 at 11:33 PM

thanks for the answer. but, ..., Corn likes to support evangelical Republicans when he can?

No, don't publish the list--that's what they do. (people like Coulter and Malkin).

It's not about outing homosexuality; it's about outing hypocrisy, which should not be given a free pass based on the hypocrite's sexual orientation.

We're better than they are.

Yes, better because we're not bigots. It's a simple distinction that anyone who is not a bigot will understand.

rnc:

The "yawning void" of Democratic foreign policy is actually a very astute election strategy.

It's *your* burger. You get to eat *all* of it. And no, you can't have my Pepsi to wash it down if you happen to start choking on it.

Bob

With ABC/Disney's hack job on that 9/11 documentary coming so close before Yom Kippur, maybe breaking Foleygate is how they are trying to atone for their sins.

But it's sad that the loss of 13 more American soldiers in Baghdad in the last three days and the passage of an unprecedented bill allowing the President to decide what is torture has had nowhere near the impact of Rep. Foley's pedophilia. Why no GOP resignations over the war?

Let's pause for a moment to remember lives lived purposefully and cut far too short. And think: why are they risking everything for us?

If Foley's behavior had been disclosed in 2003, when it apparently was originally reported to House leaders, what would have been the impact on the GOP's credibility and their case for war in Iraq?

Urk on October 4, 2006 at 9:26 PM | PERMALINK

Josh marshall suggests here that the point is to trash Fordham

Possibly, but the problem is that Fordham did inform House Republican leadership about Foley two years ago, and the leadership did nothing about it.

Three other points. One, this "velvet mafia" thing by the Republicans is analogous to what the RCCi (the Roman Catholic Church, Inc.--the hierarchy) tried to do after the priest sex abuse scandal broke a few years ago--blame it on the gays and try to get rid of any priests who may be gay.

Two, if there actually is a list--which I doubt--and if it is released, it would make Mike Rogers (who has been running a blog trying to out gay house and senate Republican members) a lot easier.

Three, if the list is fairly short, it would show that the "velvet mafia" is actually fairly powerless.

David in NY on October 4, 2006 at 9:47 PM | PERMALINK

Boy, American Hawk is divorced from reality: "The vast majority of pedophilia is done by men to boys," he claims.

It is also true that the vast majority of male-on-male pedophilia/pederasty is done by straight men, not by gay men.

Second, it would reassure the Christian right that this is a gay thing, not a Republican thing. The party just needs to clean house and everything will be fine.

I find it funny that the best spin they can put on this is "Oh - this isn't the fault of the Republicans, it's the fault of the gay mafia within the Republicans".

Yes - tell the homophobes about the secret group of gay people wielding power within the Republican party. I'm sure they'll feel very reassured by that.

"The vast majority of pedophilia is done by men to boys. Therefore, the people who need to be watched most closely are gays."

The last word there should be Republicans.

"Even if it hurts teh republicans politically, they're willing to do what it takes to protect children."

Stop having photo opportunities with them and then calling them later and saying "you looked good"?

"Good luck with your Karma folks."

I'll take my chances, thank you. After all, I'm not a Republican.

Has anyone noticed that the Republicans are trying to use this mess to glorify themselves? Could this all simply be a big Republican dirty trick that backfired on them?
Isn't this exactly how it works? Smear some Republican before an important election and then blame it all on the Democrats... and the voters flock to the "good" Republicans who are dealing with the nasty situation, the leadres you can trust...
Is this at all familiar to anybody out there?

PERMALINK
Posted by: Sparko on October 4, 2006 at 11:18 PM: |
Speaking of Gannon, maybe someone can actually do some reporting now? I mean a paid male prostitute roaming the West Wing for months without signing out? Does anyone believe he was just there as a cub reporter now? There are more closets in the White House than most figured. . .

I'm sure it was nothing more than a friendly game of Spank The Monkey-Boy

And isn't it great that we live in a democracy? A candidate for Congress can demand that his (Republican, presumably) opponent document the sexual orientation and abortion status of every one of his staffers (it's about the hypocrisy!).

If the opponent declines, the voters can decide what to do about it.

Of course, we don't see that - I wonder why not?

And frankly, I think people could, with equal right, wonder whether there are any closeted Democrats. Surely we would not want someone advocating for gay rigths without disclosing their specific interest in the topic, would we (Blacks and women can't do that on "their" issue, obviously).

Oh, well - if these Reps staffers had merely been making overseas phone calls to Al Qaeda, Dems would be lining up to protect them. But since they're gay...

(Yes, I get the private/government distinction, although why that governs an ethical question still baffles me. But I can't resist that cheap shot.)

I see that Thomas1 is still posting inane and false statements:

Isn't it more likely a Democratic dirty trick rather than a GOP dirty trick -- maybe Soros' last hurrah -- if it were the GOP, why not time it so that Foley's name could be replaced on the ballot?

From The Hill online:

The source [a life long Republican] who in July gave news media Rep. Mark Foley’s (R-Fla.) suspect e-mails to a former House page says the documents came to him from a House GOP aide.

The Hill

Oh, and self identifying "straight" males do make up a significant number of those who molest younger males, though I imagine it may not be the majority.

Remember, just like rape in hetro world, these actions are less about sex than they are about dominance and even hate-filled violence.

Chuckles:

Pederasty and pedophilia are not about sexual orientation, they are about abuse of power relationships, and for you to try and blur this underscores your own sickness, your own homophobia (or willingness to pander to it in others for partisan political purposes which is no better), and why you are seen by everyone outside of the Trolletariat on this issue as a lying disgusting hypocritical POS.

General:

It seems the strategy is to claim this is Dem organized/timed because nothing else appears to have had any effect as a defence. While this one also does not appear to be gaining much traction it is still the one excuse the GOP leadership has put forward that has not been totally dismissed by the GOP base as nonsense, although it is not appearing to have much credence in the overall GOP base. Personally I hope and pray they keep this line up, because it will focus attention on the fact that it was former GOP pages from GOP supporting families and that the children Hastert et al were willing to leave as prey for a predator came from GOP supporting families. Now, what does it say about the leadership of a party that does not protect the children of their own supporters?!? So go ahead Trolletariat, keep repeating this nonsense, all you will do is further focus on just how negligent/incompetent/indifferent the House GOP leadership was with children generally and specifically those of it's strong supporters. If they won't protect the kids of their supporters who will they protect other than themselves, hmmm?

As for the talking point equating gay with pedophile that is the other main talking point we are seeing, that needs to be forcefully knocked back at every turn because of the potency of that myth among many GOPers and alas Americans more generally. The so called velvet mafia being outed will not help the GOP for reasons other already laid out, but such an act would underscore just how willing the GOP leadership is to demonize yet again a minority in this case to defend themselves from charges of ignoring/protecting a predator pedophile in the GOP leadership. This is something that cannot be allowed to go on this notion that gay=pedophile. As many have noted the actual stats on pedophiles show that the vast majority of males that do so are straight, including those that commit these acts on boys, because pedophilia is not about orientation it is about abuse of power, same as every other form of sexual violence/abuse. Not that this will stop Chuckles from doing so but Chuckles is a clear partisan puppet factory with no interest in truth/facts/reality but only in protecting his beloved GOP no matter how guilty they are of such abuses, which says everything anyone needs to know about Chuckles and how seriously to take him, as in not at all aside from finding out what the current talking points from the GOP are.

Ignoring Chuckles works as well. Watch him hop up and down and beg for attention. He'll get down on both of his knees and smoke pole like a champ if it gets him some notice.

“But, but….but this benefits the Dems…..oh, oh…oh it must be dirty trick…ah….ah. Oh, and don’t forget I am Democrat I voted for Wilson.”

Jeeez, stop acting like a little worm, Thomas. We now know what happened.

And the gay GOP congressmen and staffers are expected to, what, go down without a fight?

Posted by: shortstop on October 4, 2006 at 9:35 PM | PERMALINK

This one was the best unintentional pun I saw in these comments.. Just sayin'

But regardless - why not ask Kevin to state loudly and clearly that he opposes this sort of sexual McCarthyism? If it it coming from the right, that should be easy, yes?

I assume we are all in agreement that this idea is abhorent - privacy, sexuality no one else's business, etc.

Posted by: Tom Maguire on October 4, 2006 at 11:33 PM | PERMALINK

You know what happens when you assume. Especially if you're a brain dead Putsch fellating Republican't pederast enabler (but I repeat myself).

But I would also point out how much Republican't attitudes have changed since the Great Clenis Hunt of the 1990's. Isn't it funny how, when it's Republican't pecadilloes we're talking about, we need to worry about privacy? Especially after having Republican'ts spend $70 million in taxpayer money so they could sniff sHrillary's panties...

This one was the best unintentional pun I saw in these comments.. Just sayin'.

Obviously, my chaste mind and sexual innocence are to blame for not catching that.

Kevin wrote: "There's literally no one who will react well to this."

The neo-brownshirt mental slaves of the Republican Fascist Party, like "American Hawk", "Jay", Charlie ("Thomas1") and "rdw", will "react well to this." They'll slavishly regurgitate whatever scripted bullshit propaganda the Republican Fascist Party cranks out.

Anyway, the irony is that while Foley and the Republicans are hypocritical, the Democrats are hypocritically trying to score points from behavior that they don't even think is bad, much less illegal: Clinton, Condit and Stubbs all had interns, and the Democrats mostly didn't care.

No, Democrats in Congress censured Studds, widely supported the censure of Clinton, and Democrats in the California State Legislature deliberately redrew the lines of the Condit's district so that he would have no realistic chance of remaining in office, but clearly they "didn't care" just as much as the Republicans who actively concealed Foley's behavior.

Sorry, that's just not gonna work.

OTOH, Republicans, who went ballistic over all three of the Democrats you mention , aren't targetting their leadership for covering for Foley. There's the hypocrisy.

Not true about pedophilia being practiced mostly by men on boys. Those are the cases that get attention. A group of girls who were also abused by priests wrote a letter to Romenesko a couple of years ago to complain that all the media attention was on the boys. NPR also did an excellent package on how it's not just Catholic priests who abuse children, but that it's harder to track in Protestant faiths.
I think people pay attention more when it's boys because they think it's more shocking somehow.

A good point from Mark Schmitt at tpmcafe.com:

One of the stories that the right likes to tell about itself is that they believe in moral absolutes, that there is such a thing as good and bad, while liberals are all relativists, we have no "foundation" for our views of what’s good and bad...

But when it comes to Foley, this is a case where it is us liberals who have the absolute moral value: Don’t mess with kids sexually. Adults must not mess with kids, people in positions of authority should not mess with kids. It’s not about the legal line or the age of consent in Florida or DC. It’s morality: Fifty-two year olds must not mess with 16 year olds. Remember that rule and all this complexity falls away. Don’t tolerate people who mess with kids, gay or straight. Not complicated....If you know that basic rule, and don’t hesitate to take action if people break it, or raise alarms if you suspect them of breaking it (as in, asking for a picture) then guess what?: Life gets a little simpler. Gays can be Scoutmasters because, like any other Scoutmaster, they know that you don’t mess with the kids. Straight men can be high school teachers of girls because they maintain that boundary, they treat it as a moral absolute. And so on.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/04/its_all_the_liberals_fault_or_maybe_george_soros_yeah_thats_it_george_soros

I said it was more likely Democratic, get it?

I got it, Thomas, and I said you were/are wrong.

Back to the Velvet Mafia thing, I find it extremely stupid on two counts.

First the Mafia point. Why? Almost every important interest group in America has an “insiders” group organized in DC. They work behind the scenes to promote the interests of themselves and also of the greater group. Yet we do not read about the Black Mafia, the Evangelical Mafia or the Energy Mafia.

The Velvet thing. WTF? Will the Black Congressional Caucus be referred to as the Gold Grill Caucus? Or the Nappy Mafia. Kevin why don’t you pull your head out of your butt and blog on this issue?

Oh and if Velvet refers to “soft”, don’t get me started. Some of the toughest, most competitive and successful people I know are gay. Many of them are people you should never cross, ouch!

Condit was registered as a Democrat and voted as a Republican - This satisfied the many Repubs in his district - Why spend any money running a Repug against him - he was in their hip pockets.

It's only a nod to the Czech Velvet Revolution, Keith. You gay guys are so sensitive!

Seriously, velvet mafia is an idiotic name. This situation is bringing people uninformed about homosexuality, pedophilia and addiction out in droves. Some are well-intentioned, some are not, some are just lazy.

Don't even respond to clifford, peeps. Resist the temptation. You can do it!

Isn't the problem with the follow-up to Foleygate a failure of leadership?

You cannot lead and claim ignorance. You cannot lead when you are simultaneously running for cover and blaming others for your predicament.

True leaders know things, they know what's important and they act forthrightly on that knowledge. Republicans have lowered the bar on what passes for leadership.

Hastert, Boehner and Reynolds have failed the test of leadership and should resign.

Like Clifford.

Cliff honey, where the f*ck did you crawl out from?

I have lots of gay friends, and many many of them are full time predators.

Clifford, if that is true, you are one sick bastard.

And so is Thomas for agreeing with you.

Hastert, Boehner and Reynolds have failed the test of leadership and should resign.

Frankly, I'm astonished that Hastert hasn't resigned already. He's clinging to his post tighter than a GOP congressman holding onto a page.....

Tighter than Bush on a pretzel.

Tighter than Condi on the 2X4 she has in her patootie every time someone questions her "integrity."

Tighter than the Christian right to the earplugs blocking out news of GOP pedophiles and enablers.

I believe that the internal GOP discussion is now focused on what time tomorrow afternoon Hastert will resign. It's a delicate balance, trying to hit an hour when the East Coast is busy eating dinner and the West Coast is just leaving work.

Yeah right, Thomas. You just keep on typing away there pal. Some day you just might hit on something worth while.

hey, little boy, can I have a picture of you? your friend sure has a hot body. can I buy you a present, young man?

I have lots of gay friends, and many many of them are full time predators.

I know! They're always on the look out for a good shoe sale.

As clifford said, they will have sex with their shoes too.

Yeah, but those fuck me heels are just begging for it....

I really doubt that some "liberal" site would go through the effort of outing a bunch of Log Cabin Republicans. We all know that they exist! And do we care?

Repugs are hoping that dems post "The List" so they complain about it being a dirty election-year tactic?

You know, I think they *really* don't want us to publish the NAMBLA DC-chapter membership roster. You know, the one that shows how the GOP has been infiltrated top-to-bottom. (Hmmm, an inadvertently funny yet apropos turn of phrase)

They could be lying bleeding and battered, with broken bones, in the street, having just been hit by a truck, and if there's a chance to have sex, they'll put off going to the hospital and morphine.

Although clearly an exagerration, this is nontheless mainly accurate. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with the male gender of our species' preoccupation with sex.

Seriously, though, as I said above: "If Hastert, etc. has to resign over this, then every homosexual in Congress needs to as well."

Wake up, Thomas1. This isn't about homosexuality. This is about predatory and lecherous behavior towards minors and the protection of such monsters by the leadership of their party. In that sense, I agree with you: every member of congress that is protecting sexual predators of minors should resign.

Perhaps Hastert can provide such a list.

Would you have expelled Foley based just on E-mail 1 above?

No. But I would have investigated him and kept a close eye on him. And likely would have removed him from the chairmanship of the protecting minors committee he was on.

would you have done nothing?

Nothing more than what was done.

Which was what exactly? Cover-up the misdeeds. Ignore it. Tell the GOP members of the page oversight committee that Foley was a threat, but not the Dem member? Warn GOP pages about Foley, but not the Dem pages?

you are a sick man.

pj: You cannot lead and claim ignorance.

i agree with you...but the bush administration has made a career out of ignorance...

"I don't think anybody anticipated the level of violence that we've encountered.." - VP Dick Cheney 6/19/06

"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees..." - President GWB 9/1/05

"I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and...use an airplane as a missile." - National Security Advisor Dr. Condoleezza Rice 5/16/02

Rice Received Al Qaeda Warning Before 9/11 - State of Denial - Bob Woodward 10/3/06

Bud: If Dems knew all about this, why did John Shimkus go to such pains to keep the sole Democrat on the page panel from hearing the complaints about Foley's emails? Republicans, at any rate, seemed to think that this was a closely held secret.
Posted by: Kevin Drum

A better response is that if the Dems knew this all along why weren't they brought out in 2004?

I have lots of gay friends, and many many of them are full time predators. The myth that 'gays' don't hit on straights is just bullshit. The lifestyle is all sex all the time with anything that doesn't get out of the way quick enough. Posted by: clifford

I'd just like to chime in here and say that I must be pretty unappealing, given "clifford's" apparently expert testimony. I shared a room on ski vacation last winter with a gay friend, and he didn't try to hump me once! Now I'm insulted. I thought it might have been because I'm straight and we're friends.

(Sorry Shortstop, it was just too easy.)

You didn't defend Clinton, Keith G.?

I sure as hell didn't. I was fucking mad at him. He had too much important work to do. A lot of which got side tracked.

But, Tommy dear, what does that wanker's stupidity in 1997 have to do with today?

I have an idea. My idea is that it's much simpler to imagine it is a group of Leftists who intend to out conservative gays because they assume the Right is homophobic.

But hey, the simplest answer isn't always the right one.

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"To the Christian right base, the idea that the Republican party has been infiltrated by a gay mafia will do nothing but disgust them, keeping them away from the polls in droves."

I'm not so sure. They're all paranoid anyway, especially about gay people wanting their children, so IF the Rethugs really jump down the throats and fire all their gay staff, the sheeple may just buy it.

However, the gay staffers, not so much. When they start outing the gay Congressmen and Party Chairs, and Presidential Assistants, things might get fun.

Sit back and watch Karl Rove spin pedophilia into a great American tradition--one of the Republican "Family Values".