I see the spineless ones aren't even willing to fund their own wet dreams.

Really, the whole conservaloony project is flying apart. Hooray!

I'm sure this idiotic "Tortilla Curtain" will be as effective as the Maginot Line.

When will people begin to understand the lessons that history teaches us?

America does not have an illegal worker problem - America has an illegal employer problem.

There ought to be a name for a neologism that isn't new. Logism? Paleologism?

It's the only Boyle I've read. A good book.

I prefer something Orwellian.

How about: The Fence 0f Freedom?

Way to trivialize a fence that will keep out terrorists and criminals.

As long as the corporate interests that fund your party want cheap, illegal labor, your fence is a worthless waste of increased 'publican deficit.

I heard it at least 20 years ago, and also used it for a piece I wrote last weekend at The Left Coaster. Thanks for reading my work, you SoCal hoser. Fuck the Dodgers.

A reader asked me about it, and I guessed and Molly Ivins came up with it. I really don't know.

That book author didn't come with it, I yell you that.

If you want to keep out illegal immigrants, it's easy. Just arrest the owners and managers of any business with a high percentage of obviously forged "I-9" forms. For instance, the meat-packing plants in Nebraska where almost all the workers are illegal. Oops, the GOP can't do that, because those Nebraska business owners are funding the GOP. Did you know that immigration arrests of business owners are DOWN 97% in the past 6 years? Well you wouldn't know that, of course, if all you ever see is talking points from www.gop.com, who don't like to talk about that.

something tells me--someone needs to a nexus/lexis search--that President Carter used the phrase back in 1977.

thelrd in TEXAS

Did you know that immigration arrests of business owners are DOWN 97% in the past 6 years?

Cite?

Way to trivialize a fence that will keep out terrorists and criminals.

I'm sure Mexico sees it that way, Pigeon.

How about: The Fence 0f Freedom?
Posted by: Porco Rosso on October 4, 2006 at 10:15 PM | PERMALINK

The Great Wall of Freedom?

(will we be able to see it from space?)

(good one, Cons. Deflator!)

Way to trivialize a fence that will keep out terrorists and criminals.
Posted by: American Hawk on October 4, 2006 at 10:15 PM | PERMALINK

Are you proposing we build one around Washington DC? That wouldn't be enough - because we'd also have to isolate Texas as well.

Tancredo's Folly

That wouldn't be enough - because we'd also have to isolate Texas as well.

Yeah, good one.

I first heard "Tortilla Curtain" when we were at Davis-Monthan (Tucson) in the early 80's, and it had been around a while then...The Sanctuary folks were where I heard it first, used wryly.

American Hawk said:

Cite?
Posted by: American Hawk on October 4, 2006 at 11:08 PM

As my old National Review colleague Ed Rubenstein points out, these figures show that worksite arrests under Bush have fallen from Clintonian levels by something like 97 percent.

Well, Kevin, I'm a little shocked you haven't read Boyle's book--after all, it's all about our neighborhoods in SoCal. I like the part when the coyote steals the guy's little dog.

And I can tell you that the fence will work both ways--if you try to get out, American Hawk, to find your freedom in a constitutional democracy, you won't be able to get through.

But i will cut a special little hole in it, just for you.

coyote

Gives a bad name to tortillas, if you ask me.

How about we call it what it is?

Inadequate.

You want to stop people from coming here--actually insist that Mexico do something to improve the lives of its citizens.

The Republican Party's real plan is to turn the US into a more perfect union just like Mexico--soon, we will have a rich elite living in gated, guarded communities while millions live at or below a low poverty line. Goodbye, Middle Class! It was fun while it lasted.

Here's where we have become just like Mexico--your vote means about as much there as it does here.

(actually, I have to confess something about my Texas crack, earlier. . . )

I myself, am a Texan. I was born in Texas. My parents escaped to the United States when I was 3 months old, however. (and they were born in the US, my dad had moved to Texas to keep his job - they had me, decided they hated Texas, and moved back to the US).

So - had there been a wall around Texas at that time, I might be riding a horse and wearing a cowboy hat today. And certainly not using one of these newfangled computers.

The Republican Party's real plan is to turn the US into a more perfect union just like Mexico--soon, we will have a rich elite living in gated, guarded communities while millions live at or below a low poverty line. Goodbye, Middle Class! It was fun while it lasted.

Sounds more like the late Roman Empire to me. The gated communities were called latifundia - country estates owned by the Senatorial class and worked by slaves. The rich increasingly withdraw from the general society of the Empire, preferring to stay in their secure villas. Bit by bit, the small citizen farmers (the backbone of the army and Republican society) were swallowed up by the evergrowing latifundia as they fell into debt.

Urban populations exploded as the small farmers abandoned the land and moved into the crowded cities.

At the same time, fewer and fewer of the wealthy let their children enter the army, which instead was increasingly composed of foreigners (serving in return for citizenship). The Danube frontier was fortified to keep the Germanic tribes out, at the same time as the legions were increasingly composed of those same tribes.

Any of this sound familiar?

Holy crap, Zelda, that O'Sullivan article is fucking DYNAMITE!

Damn the "liberal media" for not getting this story out there. This is the KEY issue in the immigration debate, there's hard numbers, and it's swept under the rug. - oh well, as long as Boeing gets their $20 Billion for developing drones and electronic surveillance to monitor border crossings. . .

Ah, good old floop.

Yes, like the Roman Empire, we have Senators and politicians sticking their thumb up the ass of some poor kid unlucky enough to get close to them. They are a crazed, lecherous sub-class of thieves who should be run completely out of the country, en masse, and then we can go back to having a Congress of part-time representatives. The citizen-statesman is a relic of the past but is more in tune with what the founders really wanted the government to be.

The Rio Grande may very well be our Danube. The threat to our country is actually from within--our apathy is really appalling these days.

How will it keep terrorists out when they all come through Canada?

And, for Mr. Forgotten, a true story: In the days of western expansion, settlers came upon a sign that read, "Texas straight ahead." Those that could read went on. Those who couldn't stopped off in Oklahoma.

We offer a variety of travel related services, including save money on discount travel, travel guides, cheap insurance quotes,discount hotels, hotel chains, cheap airfare, and discount car rental.

HYPOCRISY WATCH: What would the pro-Bush commentariat be shouting about, if the names "Bush" and "Clinton" were swapped with each other in the following story?
http://www.nationalreview.com/jos/osullivan200604281356.asp

Worksite arrests under Bush have fallen from Clintonian levels by something like 97 percent — even though September 11 occurred in the meantime. This dramatic relaxation of internal enforcement explains the rapidly rising estimate of immigrants living and working illegally in the U.S. In the last year it has risen by more than a million. For if people know that they are likely to be safe from enforcement once they escape the border area and reach L.A. or Chicago, then they will keep trying even if they were caught and returned to their country of origin any number of times. Porous borders are not only the cause of uncontrolled immigration; they are its result. You cannot control the borders, however many patrols you hire or fences you build, if you grant an effective pardon to anyone who gets a hundred miles inland. It's as simple as that.

Should Boeing Build A Fence?
T. J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council representing 11,000 agents ... says, "... It's not the solution to the illegal immigration problem. The solution is denying access to jobs so people don't come across in the first place." A successful effort by Boeing on its initial effort south of Tucson could prove quite lucrative for the aerospace giant. $80 million for 28 miles of border could translate to $2.5 billion for the entire 6000 miles of border DHS wants to protect.

If you haven't read Boyle, Tortilla Curtain is his best book.

Did I stumble into a third-grade class or something?

Let's look at these comments with an open mind and see if there's something missing:

1) As long as the corporate interests that fund your party want cheap, illegal labor, your fence is a worthless waste of increased 'publican deficit. 2) Oops, the GOP can't do that, because those Nebraska business owners are funding the GOP. 3) The Republican Party's real plan is to turn the US into a more perfect union just like Mexico--soon, we will have a rich elite living in gated, guarded communities while millions live at or below a low poverty line. Goodbye, Middle Class! It was fun while it lasted.

The last comment actually makes some sense except for the same omission as the other two comments.

Namely: This is actually a bipartisan problem, and both parties are corrupt. And, that explains why people like Drum are unable to discuss it in a grown-up fashion: the fingers he'd point would end up coming back in his party's direction.

If the Democratic Party wanted to end illegal immigration, they could do it. All they'd need to do is purge themselves of illegal immigration supporters, and then nail the GOP for their support for illegal immigration.

Likewise with the GOP.

The only way to truly solve this problem is probably with a third party that would point out exactly how corrupt both parties are.

I prefer something Orwellian.

The United Fence of Freedom

Right you are TLB.

However, when you look at the relative level of support for Illegal Employment, the hard numbers in the O'Sullivan article tell a story of almost exclusive Republican abuse.

There's certainly an argument to be made to Democrats that Immigration Employment laws are there for a reason: to protect the Illegal Immigrants from abuse. Failure to enforce these laws subjects Illegal Immigrants to abuse and exploitation. While it's true, that these people would probably be better off exploited in America than completely cut out of the economy at home in Mexico - the answer to that problem is: Fix Mexico! (same way we get other countries to address their economic problems - negotiation, incentives, tarriffs, embargoes (if necessary), etc.)

This isn't rocket science - and this is not a bipartisan problem. Democrats have a long history of support of labor, so this is a Democratic issue - but you are correct when you say that the Dems need to purge their party of corporate whores (like Lieberman, Pelosi, Boxer, Clinton, etc - just the BIG names).

The Stockade of Liberty

Yes - we could make it out of copper, donated by little French kids who save their pennies.

It could be designed by Gustav Eiffel, who reportedly is in a persistent vegetative state, on life support in a nursing home in Florida, entangled in a court battle to allow termination. . .

Watching the news on TV tonight my wife asked me what's the use of a 700 mile fence on a 1200 (or so) mile border.
I said that I really didn't know: all I know is that Hadrian's wall went from coast to coast, which seems to be a good idea if you're going to build a wall (even if building a wall is stupid to begin with).

I think the design should include tiny statues of doves closely spaced across the top to symbolize freedom...of doves to fly over it.

That Boyle book is good. It made me cry.

The contract for the fence will be given to Halliburton in a sealed no-bid contract which will charge the taxpayer $6 million/ft and it will blow down at the first strong wind.

I prefer the Great Wall of Texas, although the Great Wall of Freedom has a nice paradox feel to it.

"make it out of copper"

Have you been to Home Depot or Loew's lately? Two and half years ago, one could buy a 10 foot section of three quarter copper pipe for just under $5.00 - Then in April of 04, the price went up to almost $9.00, settled back to about $8.50. Today, you will have to lay out about $22.50 for that same copper pipe.

The reason given is that the Chinese have bought all of the copper in Chile.

Perhaps Tancredo can cut a deal with Haliburton's Chinese division for a discount - Then he can have the Mexicans build it from their side of the border - Outsourcing to keep the costs down.

"make it out of copper"

Or make it continuous; checking it out on the map was good fun. Seems like there's a few gaps there.

"a few gaps"

Well, there is the landscaper gap, the agriculture gap, the construction gap, the Corporate Repug gap, the happy homeowner needs cheap honey-doo gap, ..................

Mr. Bush, tear down this tortilla!

(You scum fucking cocksucker.)

War-mageddon (Bush foreign policy)

Warm-ageddon (Bush ecology policy)

I remember back in college in Chicago I was listening to sports radio before a big Packers-Bears football game, and the guy on the radio referred to the Illinois-Wisconsin border as the "Cheddar Curtain". Still makes me laugh thinking about it, being a Wisconsin native.

Some day, maybe 30 years from now, a world leader to be will stand with Mexican demonstrators and say "MISTER PRESIDENT, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL". Fortunately it will be in his own language (not English) and good Americans will be spared of the embarrassment.

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If you really want to stop illegal immigration, have the employer fines go to the labor unions ! The employers will go to extreme lengths to avoid one penny going to a union !