Heh. I brought this up on the Velvet Mafia thread.

Glad I'm not shouting into the wind.

And they certainly do not meet the standards we expect from the speaker of the House.

They exactly meet the standards I expect from the speaker of the House.

What's more, Hastert still has over a hundred acres left from the parcel he originally bought in 2002. That land is worth double, or maybe more than double, what he originally paid for it.

This is no different than Whitewater where the Clintons made a bunch of money from a shady land deal. It's pretty hyprocritical of you to complain about Hastert but not about Clinton's illegal land deal in Whitewater.

Now does anyone else think he will retire from a hospital bed late next week (say about 4:45 on Friday) for "health reasons?"

I hope not, a stubbornly-clinging-to-power Hastert is a dream come true for the Democratic party right now, but still - he's a lightning rod, and like the higher ups told him to cease and desist with the conspiracy theories, they may toss him overboard now that earmarks and financial chacanery are involved. One storm is weatherable, but two probably aren't. Let's hope the stubborn son-of-a-bitch doesn't listen.

The Starr report I read asserted that the Clinton's lost $68K on Whitewater. ANd of course, there is the pesky little exception that no congressional earmarks got slid in to benefit the Big Dog, too.

Better liars please.

I'm off to bed, so I'll save Jay the trouble...

global idiot, gerry studds, democrats are stupid, clinton's penis.

Did I leave anything out?

Still, the image remains of an amiable guy, whose sins are more of sloth than malevolence....

Sloth? Malevolence?

Not the words that come to mind.

Unethical. Misuse of power.

What a wad.

As if they don't have enough highways already connecting the western suburbs to Chicago.

I think "do not meet the standards we expect" depends on what we mean by "expect". Nowadays, I expect the worst from these corrupt clowns.

Al:

The Clintons *lost* money on the Whitewater land deal, you yutz.

Bob

This is no different than Whitewater where the Clintons made a bunch of money from a shady land deal. It's pretty hyprocritical of you to complain about Hastert but not about Clinton's illegal land deal in Whitewater.
Posted by: Al

A| is so funny!

This is no different than Bush Sr. where the male prostitutes made a bunch of money from a shady nightime White House visit.

It's pretty hyprocritical of you to complain about Hastert but not about Gannon's illegal hand job in the White House.

That reads like the land deal in "Mr Smith Goes To Washington".

So what time does Hastert go running through the halls of Congress, shouting:

"I'm not fit for office! I'm not fit for any place of honor or trust in this land! Expel me!"

'Cause I'd like to have CSPAN on for that.

Right now a "speaker Hastert" is the best thing for the Democratic party, and i hope he hangs around like a fart in a phonebooth until the election.

Its difficult to know whether or not to answer Al when he gets basic stuff so wrong. All I can say is, he seems to enjoy being spanked.

p.s. The Clintons lost 68k on the deal, and US taxpayers lost $54M. Believe me, we've complained plenty about that. Besides, even if the Clintons HAD got a payday on that deal before they came to power, why would that make it okay for the Speaker of the House to game the system for his own benefit?

As I've said before, Al really needs to look up the meaning of the word "hypocrisy". And a lot of other stuff people who've graduated high school usually understand quite well.

Shouldn't you guys first settle on the specific infraction of the law with which you want to charge the speaker?

yesterday it was negligence in not listening in Pelosi's phone conversations so he could know about the Foley affair as soon as she found out about it.

Today it is some minor land deal.

What's it going to be tomorrow? His intake of trans-fats?

His farts in the House elevator.

Bob

Jay, you're getting right down there into Al territory. It's not a minor land deal if you used your political position to enrich yourself. Any part of that really hard to grasp? It's called criminality, and Republicans have become true masters at it.

(But of course we know it's nothing compared with Hillary shooting Vince Gill—or was it Travis Tritt?)

It sounds ridiculous to say it, but these actions by Hastert are much worse than his negligence on Foley. Using his office for direct personal gain is just wrong. Of course, it's Illinois, and near Chicago. Land of tempered, fuck-all Capitalism. If a man wants to take a job in the fifth-circle-of-hell US Congress for however many years until he gains the seniority to get away with this kind of earmark then I suppose most of his constituents would say 'god bless him.' Hastert supporters are idiots.

Most Republicans will read this and think to themselves, "well, that's what politics is for, isn't it?" You don't have to be much of a student of history to learn this.

Jeez. Even as rabidly partisan a rag as the New Republic says "We cannot say at this juncture whether the actions taken by the speaker are illegal" and the Washington Monthly immediately decks out in full class-war battle array.

Guy uses his knowledge to do a bit of business, makes a little moolah and this is wrong? Isn't this what everybody does?

How about less panting when others do it and putting a little effort into making your own money?

Kenji - lemme fix this Hillary shooting Vince Gill—or was it Travis Tritt? for you - Hillary shooting Vince Radney or Gill Foster. (I get way more c&w exposure than is healthy. I'm starting to covet my neighbors pick-up truck.)

Goodnight all. The Tylenol PM is kicking in.

We don't git so many Radney Foster jokes 'round here. You shore you're from these parts, ma'am?

The numbers from Ornstein and Lilly don't jibe with each other. They say Hastert got six times what he had originally paid but the real ratio for the acres and dollars they report is about 8.69.

Specifically, $3,118,000 divided by 69 acres divided by $5200 is about 8.69. Which is even more objectionable (if the other numbers are accurate).

And the acres probably weren't worth $5200 each to begin with since they were inaccessible parts of a larger parcel.

That darn Soros!

Never mind. The 69 acres came from the other investors, not from Hastert. Please pardon my late-night blunder.

Global Citizen touched on this upthread, but let me put a finer point on it - Bill and Hillary Clinton bought a parcel of land for development near the Whitewater River in Arkansas in 1978, 14 years before Clinton became president. By the best accounting possible (due to James McDougall's, ahem, poor bookkeeping), the Clinton's lost $68,000 on that real estate investment. However, the Republican Congress turned that into an eight-year, $100 million investigation that ended up being a witchhunt into his sex life.

Hastert's real estate deal, which happened while he was Speaker of the House, deserves at least as much scrutiny, although God forbid that we even have to think about Sweaty Denny's sex life....

Jay

Jim Wright had to resign as Speaker over a minor book deal. Besides, who says there's a law that you can only investigate one crooked deal at a time?

and then there's all of Hastert's Turkish bribery stuff that was in Vanity Fair

This sounds like peanuts compared with what they got Rostenkowsky for - abusing the franking priv - but IOKIYAR after all.

Hey if you take Whitewater, add actual corruption, abuse of political office, and illegal activity, it's EXACTLY the same as the Hastert land deal.

This smear job hardly comes as a surprise. After all, Norman Ornstein is a well-known leftist who works for the anti-capitalist American Enterprise Institute.

So far the Hastert deal simply has the appearance of impropriety.

Does anybody know anything about his partners in the land trust? Was anybody else pushing this parkway? Did Hastert actually build the house? How was development trending in the area west of Chicago anyway. The essence of real estate investment is figuring out how real estate is going to develop and buying some land in the path of that development. Is anybody saying real estate speculation is wrong per se?

The thing that looks ugly in this case is the earmark. How did that develop? Who was involved with it besides Hastert?

Damn, finding the answers to all those questions could be fun.

K Street's New Ways Spawn More Pork
As Barriers With Lawmakers Fall, 'Earmarks' Grow

By Jonathan Weisman and Charles R. Babcock
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, January 27, 2006; Page A01

Since the Republicans took control of Congress in 1994, the number of home-district earmarks jumped from 4,155 valued at about $29 billion in 1994 to 14,211 worth nearly $53 billion 10 years later, according to the Congressional Research Service.

fyi....in 2005....earmarks went over 15,000

Hastert is a corrupt asshole.

Doolittle is a corrupt asshole.

Shimkus is a corrupt asshole.

If you vote for these putzes, you vote in favor of corruption.

The appearance of impropriety?

He used his office to enrich himself.

That's "appearance" and "reality" all in one.

This is no different than Whitewater where the Clintons made a bunch of money from a shady land deal.

Okey doke, Al baby. "Hastert Did Whitewater-Style Land Deal". Let's see how that goes down in Oklahoma, Utah, Texas and Alabama. Bye bye, GOP.

The Clintons only claim they lost money on the Whitewater land deal. Their tax records never reveal any claims of such loss, even though these were people who deducted the depreciation of their underwear.

The truth of the matter is that the real "loss" of the Whitewater affair was tranferred to the American taxpayer through an even shadier than normal savings and loan. Had Bill Clinton been an unexamined Republican from Arkansas the WA POST and THE NEW YORK TIMES would have been on that transparently corrupt arrangement like flies on carrion. As it was, all the MSM jumped into stonewalling mode, covering up everything for the Clintons, even extended that spin control favor to everything else the Teflon couple touched, right down to peddling the pardons on their last days in office.

Had Bill Clinton been an unexamined Republican

Another county heard from. Another amnesiac county heard from, to be exact.

I love the idea that some can promote the idea that Whitewater wasn't examined. Whitewater, as most of us fondly remember, was examined more thoroughly than the JFK assassination, Creation, and the Death of Princess Di. Somewhere tighty-righties have come to the conclusion that because they didn't bag their game, truss him, roast him, and eat him hot off the spit, that Clinton wasn't examined.

Someone needs examination, all right, but it ain't Clinton.

Bye bye, GOP.

I agree that there is nothing this country needs more right now than for a Democratic majority in the House and Senate in November. I think it will have the effect of applying a torniquet on the Bush-inflicted wound that is gushing out our national dignity and values. But will Democrats be equally susceptable to the corruption of power as the Republicans have been under Bush? Absolutely. And even more so if it's followed by a Democratic presidential victory in 08. This is about the susceptability of human beings to the corrupting influence of power, not the infantile notion that worldview of one political party is morally superior to the other. The democrats will have to be watched just as critically if not more so than the Repubs have been, especially by you folks on the leftwing blogs.

I wish I had a minor real estate transaction that made $6 million for me. That minor matter would make a difference in my life.

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"...And they certainly do not meet the standards we expect from the speaker of the House.

No, they don't."

They sure as hell meet the standards we've come to expect from THIS administration!

The truth of the matter is that the real "loss" of the Whitewater affair was tranferred to the American taxpayer through an even shadier than normal savings and loan.

Demonstrating, yet again, that the only requirement for GOP membership today is stupidity so profound as to defy comprehension.

You are a total boob, boob.

So Dennis Hastert's Chief of Staff lives him, as in sharing the same apartment in DC, but both deny that the Chief told the speaker about Foley when the former was informed about it a long time ago.

They really think Americans are moron.

"That land is worth double, or maybe more than double, what he originally paid for it." - Ornstein and Lilly

This has never happened before in the history of real estate.

"We cannot say at this juncture whether the actions taken by the speaker are illegal." - Ornstein and Lilly

But you'll find that juncture. Since the economy is great and you have no position on terrorism, other than to not do anything, finding Republican indiscretions are the only hope you have.

Have a nice day.

Clinton's underwear depreciation?

Mike, you need a website linking to all of your quotes here. You'd be a shoe in for the Washington House. Don't let the ghosts of fallen Republilcans in district 33 get you down.

If the democrats were in charge they'd probably just write earmarks to their own bank accounts. Brain dead muslim loving pussy cowards.

Money likes to make money for itself

at the expense of everything else.

It's money that is loving the Iraq

invasion, we started the war, we are waging it

and money is making more money for itself

at the expense of everything else.

The last time I checked, money has always

looked out for itself, not young pages, not the

less fortunate.

The GOP is clearly money in disguise.

"If the democrats were in charge they'd probably just write earmarks to their own bank accounts. Brain dead muslim loving pussy cowards." - imposter

I find it very interesting that the people who hijack my handle spew invectives when in fact, I never personally attack.

That says a lot about the liberal mindset, no?

Liberals are much less tolerant than they pretend to be.

Don't you just love a post from one of our favorite trolls that he "never personally attack[s]," in a post that contains ... wait for it ... a personal attack of the very sort that he decries?

Oh, and Jay, dear? I have no need to be "tolerant" of idiots and trolls who mindlessly regurgitate partisan propaganda. That particular "tolerance" isn't part of the liberal handbook.

He may be a pig at the trough but he is OUR pig at the trough...

"That particular "tolerance" isn't part of the liberal handbook" - deranged liberal

So now they pick and choose their levels of tolerance for their "handbook"!

Wow. Isn't that exactly what you blame conservatives for? Nice to see that you've just admitted to being prejudice.

What if I told you I was Muslim? Surely you could find the tolerance then, through sheer fright.

Why not just lie about it, heck the press is guaranteed to blatantly ignore the fact of anything this administration says.

This from David Froomkin’s column:

Terence Hunt writes for the Associated Press: "A week into a sex scandal involving teenage House pages, President Bush called House Speaker Dennis Hastert on Thursday to thank the embattled Republican leader for how he has handled the situation.

"In a phone call lasting several minutes, Bush expressed support for Hastert, under fire from conservatives unhappy with what he did and didn't do about former Rep. Mark Foley's sexually suggestive messages to teens.

BUT then:

Here's the ever-helpful Tony Snow on the issue at the briefing yesterday, before Bush's call:

"Q: Tony, has the president talked to Speaker Hastert since this whole thing started?

"MR. SNOW: No.

The thing about Hastert is that he said he didn’t know what Foley was doing and his conclusion was nothing but a lie, everybody, including the press members knows this is lie.

And the part where Hastert tried to blame Dems is surely passing the buck – and not, as Hastert implied, letting the buck stop at Hastert’s office.

The investigation, as well as with members of press are quickly finding out that Hastert knew full well what Foley had been doing and Hastert never really acted on the knowledge of Foley’s constant sexual harassment of minors.

And the press goes about pretending that the level of lying we have seen in this administration is normal and to be expected, and that anybody objecting to lies is somehow labeled as being merely partisan politics?

When did partisan behavior become merely objection to liars? Bush, Republicans, the word GOP are now synonymous with word "LIAR"!

I tipped this stuff off to Drudge, more for the kick it gave me... Meanwhile:

Some Kos-family bloggers are saying that the Establishment let this Foley mess come out right now because they have given up on the 'thuglicans and are throwing them under the bus/limo/hummer/whatever. Well...Do you remember all the renewed Abramoff revelations coming out *just before* this Foleygate business hit the fan? The reports that contacts between Abe and the *White House* including Karl Rove were more extensive than originally admitted? (Note Rove staffer Susan Ralston resignation just yesterday.) Note the distraction now away from Abe-scam?

So, who is maybe throwing who under a bus? Don't you smell a roving rat here?

Hey tj - Don't play the idiot's game that relative distinctions don't matter. The Rethugs are far worse, and we have to deal with that on a practical level. Look what asshole prick Nader did, throwing the election to the 'thugs. I will never forgive him for that.

Jay what are you?Answer-Charter member of the kool aid drinkers club.Is it so hard to focus on how badly your giys are governing the country or is just the mesmerizing effects of the kool aid.

Ron Byers:
How was development trending in the area west of Chicago anyway. The essence of real estate investment is figuring out how real estate is going to develop and buying some land in the path of that development. Is anybody saying real estate speculation is wrong per se?

Varecia: My husband and I lived in Hastert's district for several years (we moved out of DeKalb County in 2002), and the area west of Chicago has been seeing increasing suburban development for the past few years. Lots of prime farmland is being gobbled up for bland housing and commercial strip development. There are some mega-realty/development groups that have been chipping away at that part of Illinois from several fronts in several counties, and the stuggling farmers eventually give up and sell their farmland to developers. A farmland preservation organization was formed, but we haven't had contact with them since we left and don't know if they were ever able to accomplish anything toward halting the conversion of prime farmland to suburban sprawl. Interestingly, some of the small towns that have traditionally been Republican strongholds have begun to elect more Dems for local positions, which may be related to people getting tired of this kind of thing.
Seems to me the problem here is Hastert and associates inventing or advancing a public project that just happens to increase the value of your strategically-placed property. And I personally hate what is happening to the region in which I grew up and lived for so many years. I for one will be THRILLED if Hastert goes--but not until the maximum damage to the Republicans can be extracted from him.

Sorry the above post had nothing to do with Hasterts land deal, but I must admit that it sounds like something that Bill Clinton's brother did awhile back.

The buck didn't stop at Hastert's office and it won't stop until Hastert steps down HOWEVER Hastert did say that if he thought his actions would hurt the GOP, that he step down. AND the subject is hurting the GOP as the polls clearly show.

Look for alot of Velvet Mafia news on Monday. This thing is about to blow sky high.

"....how badly your giys are governing the country or is just the mesmerizing effects of the kool aid." - gandalf

- record low unemployment
- record high DJIA
- record high home ownership
- 12 consecutive quarters of strong GDP growth
- no terrorist incidence in five years and several attempts thwarted
- new allies in Pakistan, Afghanistan, India and Libya
- two great new SCOTUS appointees
- Saddam on trial
- new freely elected government in Iraq

Doesn't sound to bad to me.

Is Hastert Gay? He lives with his Chief of Staff?? WTF? How is it the MSM kept this tidbit quiet until now? His strange room buddy situation was on Huffpo this morning. It is beginning to look like these guys are the biggest hypocrites in the history of the world. Almost all of the GOP leadership seems to be closeted or close to it. No wonder Bill Clinton's heterosexuality was so repulsive to them. Man. There is nothing wrong with being Gay if they own up to the reality, but the problem I see is that they seem to persecute Democtratic Gays, and lie outright to their base.

Jeff Gannon? It is about time they confess to their base and acknowledge who they are.

"....dual loyalty jews and....." - tj

And the ugliness of tj's agenda displays itself.

Jay: tj's marching orders are to spread blame away from the GOP power structure. Unfortunately, Jewish people are often lobbed into the line of fire.

I am so shocked at what is unfolding with Foley. I did not see this one coming--I alwats assumed it would be Abramoff that brought the damage.

"--I alwats assumed it would be Abramoff that brought the damage." - sparko

There is always damage control to do, everyday, in both parties because of the fact that there are just entirely too many scoundrels with their own agendas. Anyone who doesn't realize this hasn't been watching politics very long.

tj, you're part of the problem, not the solution.

that record high Dow? Only took six years to get back. Unemployment is ticking up and as to record home ownership? Read the business section of your local paper - forclosures are on the rise because of increasing interest rates and ARM's. An illegal war. 2,700+ dead Americans in that illegal war. The malfeasance is palpable. habeus was taken out back and shot at 6:28 pm eastern on Sept 28th. Spying on American citizens. A back-door draft.

Now go ahead and don't engage in personal attacks. Just call me global idiot, say all dems are traitors and the GOP is pure and holy. That isn't ad hominemor anything.

Appologies to all thinking members of this board no matter your political leanings for cavorting with a troll.

I am off to the farmers market to buy produce from the Amish, who won't use my money to support war-making.

Later.

..."you guys are assholes... just protecting Israel" - tj

Nasrallah, is that you?

Thank you, Mike Cook and mhr, for once again demonstating how ignorant and misinformed the right-wing is. There are so many myths about the Clintons that are demonstrably wrong, and sure enough, the morons who post here regurgitate them verbatim. To wit:

The Clintons only claim they lost money on the Whitewater land deal. Their tax records never reveal any claims of such loss, even though these were people who deducted the depreciation of their underwear.

The reason the Clinton’s never claimed a loss on their tax returns for the Whitewater Development Corp. was that the Clintons were passive investors and James McDougall’s records were so poor as to be unsupportable. Very wise of them. Tell me, Mr. Cook, is not claiming a capital loss to which you are entitled on your tax return a crime? By the way, your ignorance of tax law is astonishing. The Clinton’s claimed an itemized deduction for the FMV of clothing they donated to charity, which millions of Americans do every year. This is not unusual or noteworthy. Depreciation only relates to capital assets and as far as I know, the Clinton’s underwear does not qualify for that treatment. This is one of the more popular Clinton myths spread by Limbaugh and his ilk.

The truth of the matter is that the real "loss" of the Whitewater affair was tranferred [sic] to the American taxpayer through an even shadier than normal savings and loan.

Please explain how the Clinton’s loss on their Whitewater investment was “transferred to the American taxpayer”, when the Clinton’s didn’t even bank at Madison Guaranty S&L??? James McDougall bought Madison four years after the Clintons invested in Whitewater. The loan to finance the purchase of the Whitewater land was through a different bank. Gene Lyons, in his book Fools for Scandal debunks the myth that the Clintons were somehow responsible for the failure of Madison Guaranty S&L. It ain’t true. Sorry, dipshit, you are wrong again.

Had Bill Clinton been an unexamined Republican from Arkansas the WA POST and THE NEW YORK TIMES would have been on that transparently corrupt arrangement like flies on carrion. As it was, all the MSM jumped into stonewalling mode, covering up everything for the Clintons, even extended that spin control favor to everything else the Teflon couple touched, right down to peddling the pardons on their last days in office.

Actually, it was Jeff Gerth’s column in the New York Times in March of 1992 that got the Whitewater myth started. As Gene Lyons notes, 90% of the myths that the GOP and right-wing knuckle-draggers like Limbaugh spread about Bill and Hillary Clinton arose from Gerth’s NYT article. The New York Times was no friend of the Clintons, publishing specious rumors about Clinton fathering a child with a black prostitute (which was proven false), participating in drug-running through Mena airport in Arkansas (also proven false) and many other made-up stories. I wish they would publish some true things about George W. Bush, like how he paid for Robin Lowman to have an abortion in 1972, his cocaine arrest in Houston the same year and his homosexual relationship with Victor Ashe, ambassador to Poland.

When you have facts that Mr.Speaker did as well as Hillary let me know. Hillary Clinton invested $1,000 in cattle futures and got a payback of over $99,000. Lucky I guess.

No, its because Hillary is extremely bright. Something you can't say about Hastert. Let me guess - you will come back and say that Hillary got inside information from James Blair, a lawyer with Tyson Foods. There is one problem with that myth - Blair was a private attorney at the time Hillary was trading cattle futures. Please cite the statute that makes it a crime to trade cattle futures on the basis of advice from a friend...

You right-wingers just do not know what you are talking about. Why don’t you go away and stop embarrassing yourselves with your ignorance???

And Josh goes about this the wrong way.
TPM Reader BC suggests a "meme neutralizer":

Don't you think that Republicans attacking Pelosi and CREW and bloggers over Foley is just like attacking Iraq when you know the crime was done by bin Laden? There they go again, Republicans attacking the wrong people when everyone knows who did the crime.

Not bad.

--Josh Marshall.

I don't what Dems are so afraid of really.

Someone leak about so extemely nasty, filthy things going on in nations capital.

NOT that for one minute, I would think that old senile recluse, George Soros had anything to do with leaking anything do with Foley and his predatory sexual nature over minors.

But had George Soros been the whisleblower, what would that make Soros? A better, more decent Christian than anyone on right? Hastert appears to have been completely indifferent to news about sexual harassment matters? Hastert would have anyone think he was the last person to know, but does that make for good house leader?

"I am off to the farmers market to buy produce from the Amish, who won't use my money to support war-making." - global idiot

Following the shortest cellular biology class in history.

"An illegal war." - global idiot

This is a lie. Do liberals tell lies?

"....forclosures are on the rise because.." - global idiot

What kind of person cherry picks perceived bad news? Are these the people we want leading the country? People that snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

"Appologies to all thinking members of this board..." - global idiot

rdw isn't here today.

"On October 11, 1978, the future First Lady, a neophyte investor with an annual income of $25,000, opened a commodity-futures account with a deposit of $1,000. Her first trade was the short sale of ten live-cattle contracts at a price of 57.55 cents a pound: a commitment to deliver in December of that year 400,000 pounds of cattle with a market value of $230,200. One day later, she bought the contracts back at a price of 56.10 cents, just 0.15 cent above the low of the day, pocketing $5,300 for a return of 530 per cent.

Mrs. Clinton continued to be a net winner at the game. By the time she closed her trading account ten months later, she had racked up $99,541 in profits, a spectacular 10,000 per cent return on her initial investment of $1,000. Either Mrs. Clinton was a better trader than the legendary George Soros, whose best-ever annual return in thirty years of trading was 122 per cent, or she was led by an invisible hand."

Yup, just good old fashioned business sense.

"I just want to see some honest commentary on who is controlling the message" - tj

Commentary that continues to blame the jews for your misery.

"...treasonous bastards that keep us at war with a fifth of the human population" - tj

Of course, we should just let that part of the human population continue to kill in the name of oppression.

"..treasonous bastards that are controlling gas prices" - tj

Displaying his complete lack of knowledge of OPEC and world oil market.

"bastards... fucking bastards" - tj

tj seems like a well balanced individual

Go here for some local Illinois reaction to Hastert's Priairie Parkway Corridor project (scroll down page to get to the PPC issue):

http://www.mccv.com/index.htm

"what's YOUR agenda?" - tj

My agenda is to bring people like you down, and to bitch slap one fifth of humanity.

I hope that TJ does not leave any stains on Jay's, er Alice's dress.

TJ's and Jay's News Channel - All Bigotry, All the Time.

Dude, that's just business at usual in Illinois. I don't think it's even within the realm of comprehension for people who've lived their whole lives in western states to understand Illinois politics.

Although his 69 acres had been worth only $5,200 per acre a year and a half earlier, the trust valued his land at the same $15,000 per acre as the new land, three times its original price.

That's how Hillary Clinton did so well in pork futures, back when she was merely a prominent attorney and a governor's wife. Also, you are still avoidng the amazing growth in the wealth of Democratic Representative Mollohan of W. VA. That's OK if you are a flack for the Democratic party, but not OK if you are a tireless campaigner for clean government.

We cannot say at this juncture whether the actions taken by the speaker are illegal.

Is it wrong for the Speaker to engage in legal behavior? It would seem that there should be at least a prima facie case of illegality or malfeasance before calling it unethical.

The idea that people object to Hastert making money is ludicrous. The story indicates that Hastert didn't simply make money: he made sure he made money via his position in Congress.

"When you sell-off $6 billion in gasoline futures contracts" - Bill

Yup, companies tend to sell the investments that they believe will not generate the revenue needed to make future projections. Being the price of oil is dropping on the world market, the investors at Goldman felt it better to sell that commodity to invest eleswhere.

That's never happened before.

With demand for oil down and supplies at near record levels, do you think the worlds supply and demand have more impact on the price of gas then ONE investment company? Do ya think?

"ohmygod" - clair

I didn't know you were so religious. A religious, jew hating liberal. How refreshing.

"Washington perhaps? And no, the Clitnons are no better." - Bill

Bill hates all zionist American regimes that tend to profit from power. As opposed to communist of, better yet, Islamic dictatorships that impose economic restrictions while enriching themselves.

Blatant abuse of power is better than perceived abuse of power.

"My email correspondents also raise a few other points." - Bill

How is Osama doing?

The number of stories the Washington Post has run on Hastert's land deal/earmark parlay?

Zero.

Which is piss-poor, considering the Chicago Tribune broke the story on June 15.

"Robert Rubin - Chairman of the National Economic Council (1993-1995), United States Secretary of the Treasury (1995-1999"

Here's another notable Goldman employee

"Jay - you are a party hack, a jew, and a homosexual" - tj

Why do you hate jews? Why do you hate homosexuals? Is it best for you if everyone just perceives the world the way your little brain perceives it? That way, everyone will be the loser you are and you won't have to feel so inferior?

Only a party hack would not mention that Clintons Treas. Sec. was also from Goldmans.

Harry Truman is famous for a lot of things he said, but I 've always thought one of the best (and most ironic, given the self-dealing political machine in Missouri that he was product of), was when, in commenting on LBJ, he advised that no man who entered public service with modest means, and left wealthy, should be trusted or admired. How many fail this test, in Washington D.C. in particular?

I don't see term limits as a cure-all, but it would put some constraints on the time allowed for any particular crook to steal from the public trough.

t.j.'s post is the second case of support for German fascist thought I've seen in this forum lately, although the first was a bit more subtle.

Why is their Jewish lineage worthy of comment?

As an outsider (Australian) observing all this, I'd like to say that you have all been poisoned by raw partisanship. You have a great Constitution, written by wise founding fathers. You have a President who is doing so much damage to your international reputation, surrounded by advisers whose first loyalty seems to be to keeping the the incumbent party in power (remember John Mitchell and the CREEP) rather than to the principles of democracy, in particular the rule of law, separation of the powers and the checks and balances to keep it that way. Would it be too much to ask if you would kindly remove your gaze from your navels and focus on what the hell your country is doing in the wider globalsphere? It is actually quite depressing to read this blog - arguing about Whitewater and Hastert, on the specious basis that if Billary did it then it is OK for Hastert to do it too. Would it be too much for somebody over there to step back and have a look at the big picture. If the US is supposed to be providing global leadership then we are all in deep doo doo. Can I just explain that all the bipartisan arguments that you guys are indulging in do not amount to a pair of old boots out here. The issue out east of NY and west of LA is Iraq, Iraq is a mess, Iraq is down to Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the neocons, and unless and until you sort this out, the rest of the world sees the US as a moral failure, run by liars and incompetents. Regrettably, although your government's policies affect all of us, we don't get to vote and have to rely on you to get it right. Shame really - my own Prime Minister said the people generally get it right through the ballot box. Pity your President didn't get there by that route.

Jay sez:

- record low unemployment
- record high DJIA
- record high home ownership
- 12 consecutive quarters of strong GDP growth
- no terrorist incidence in five years and several attempts thwarted
- new allies in Pakistan, Afghanistan, India and Libya
- two great new SCOTUS appointees
- Saddam on trial
- new freely elected government in Iraq

Jay, you aren't stupid, so why post a list of crap you know is wrong?

Record low unemployment?

Let's see... Under Clinton, 22.4 million new jobs. Under Bush, 2.4 million new jobs. Only 20 million more new jobs before Bush catchs up to Bill Clinton! Better hurry, only 2 and 1/2 years to go.

Record hign stock market?

You mean, Bush's stock market finally caught up to Clinton's after 5 and 1/2 years? Jay, that means the market grew by ZERO. Under Clinton, the DJIA tripled.

Geez, this is too easy. Are there any real conservatives out there? Ones equipted with a brain?

"Let’s put it this way, a $6 billion trade is not decided on at the lower levels of the firm." - Bill

Let's put it this way, $6 billion has very little effect on a trillion dollar commodity.

"Why is their Jewish lineage worthy of comment?" Will

I have no idea, other than to satisfy their hate and inferiority.

"I am looking for some new direction." - Bill

Then quit being so conspiracy minded.

"We won't have an honest broker in the Middle East until we talk about treasonous Jews who control both parties." - Bill

And disengenous. You're not as independent as you think you are. You're an islamic puppet.

Kevin Drum, it isn't your fault, and I've always admired your policies in minimally policing this forum, but a lot of folks here have really gone off the deep end. When the "Jews directed 9/11" stuff comes out, it's time to sign off.

"Ones equipted with a brain?" - broken brain

No, but most of us can spell.

"The week was a memorable one for investors, with the Dow finally recovering from the dot-com meltdown early in the decade, recession and then the Sept. 11 , 2001, terror attacks. Corporate malfeasance made household names of companies like Enron Corp. and further undermined investor confidence before more than four years of solid corporate profit growth helped rebuild the Dow. Most recently, the Fed’s decision to stand pat on interest rates bolstered investor enthusiasm.

The Dow, which also set a trading high Thursday of 11,870.06, rose 1.47 percent for the week, while the S&P gained 1.03 percent and the Nasdaq rose 1.84 percent. Despite the overall gains in the market, the S&P stands about 12 percent below its high close of 1,527.46 and the Nasdaq is even further off, about 54 percent below its March 2000 high of 5,048.62."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3683270/

Do I really have to point out to you that the DJ during Clintons tenure was tenous at best considering all of the corporate fraud (Enron, Global Crossing, etc) happened during his watch.

Should I also point out to you that the tech bubble created over 60% of "Clintons" jobs which burst in 2000.

Should I also point out to how many jobs were lost due to 9/11 and Katrina?

I had better not in that it make force you to think.

"You are a buffoon or an operative. Probably both." - Bill

Just blame it on the treasonous jews Bill. That's what all scared, racist little people do.

Yeah. I'm with Will Allen. And not just becuase I am Jewish (a Jew who happens to believe that a fair portion of Israeli Jews are batshit insane - especially a couple of my relatives who live in Tel Aviv. Oy vey.)

But this is getting ridiculous.

Wow, flinging anti-semiticism to shut down discussion. Karl Rove himself. But Hastert being Gay and a massive hypocrite has nothing to do with the ridiculous and deperate anti-semite poster here.

The more crap they fling, the more desperate they
are. Rejoice at each lunatic post by the far right here. They are death pangs.

Oh, Bob, when you play with your prepuce like that, some out here get so hot!

"On October 11, 1978, the future First Lady, a neophyte investor with an annual income of $25,000, opened a commodity-futures account with a deposit of $1,000. Her first trade was the short sale of ten live-cattle contracts at a price of 57.55 cents a pound: a commitment to deliver in December of that year 400,000 pounds of cattle with a market value of $230,200. One day later, she bought the contracts back at a price of 56.10 cents, just 0.15 cent above the low of the day, pocketing $5,300 for a return of 530 per cent.
Mrs. Clinton continued to be a net winner at the game. By the time she closed her trading account ten months later, she had racked up $99,541 in profits, a spectacular 10,000 per cent return on her initial investment of $1,000. Either Mrs. Clinton was a better trader than the legendary George Soros, whose best-ever annual return in thirty years of trading was 122 per cent, or she was led by an invisible hand."
Yup, just good old fashioned business sense.
--Jay

Jay:

I know that there is about as much chance of this happening as monkeys flying out of my ass, but please read Fools for Scandal by Gene Lyons. Here is the link to Amazon, so that you can order it for your library. This book debunks every myth about the Clintons that has become legend to the right-wing.

Maybe you should use your profound depth of business knowledge and explain to me how Hillary "cheated the system" by making money on cattle futures. In America, we typically ask the accuser to prove guilt, instead of asking the accused to prove their innocence.

When you strip away all of the right-wing mythology, the only damning thing that emerges is that Bill Clinton cheated on his wife. Horrors! Of course, conservatives aren't much interested in the truth, are they?

I look forward to your erudite analysis of how Hillary gamed the entire commodities futures trading industry....

TCD

Deflator, do you have any notion of the odds against a neophyte, no matter how intelligent, entering the futures market with a thousand bucks, and walking away with 100k shortly thereafter? Does the term "nearly never happens", or "just about impossible" mean anything to you?

Does this prove that Mrs. Clinton got preferential treatment regarding her investment? Nope, but please spare us the rhetoric to the effect of such an occurence being beyond extreme suspicion by all except the rabid Clinton-haters.

http://www.chineseessentialoils.com/mzmj/
http://www.chineseessentialoils.com/mzmj/18.htm
http://www.chineseessentialoils.com/mzmj/11.htm

Jay sez:

Do I really have to point out to you that the DJ during Clintons tenure was tenous at best considering all of the corporate fraud (Enron, Global Crossing, etc) happened during his watch.

The 300% DJIA stock gains under Clinton were "tenous [sic] at best" ? Only in your little wingnut universe is 0% gain better than 300%.

And how about the S&P 500? I know, in your mind, Bush's 1350 is better than Clinton's 1500. After all, it is a REPUBLICAN 1350!

Not to mention the NASDAQ, which at 2300 is less than half Clinton's 5190.

Oh, and ENRON? The legislation which gutted corporate oversight was sponsored by the Republicans, and passed only over Clinton's veto. And it was Senator Phil Gramm(R) who pushed the ruling that ENRON could enter the commodities market, and the regulatory board which oversaw ENRON in this market was Phil Gramm's WIFE.

And "Kenny Boy" Lay was long-time buddies with the Bush family, being W's biggest political donor in 2000. And you want to blame ENRON on Clinton? Oh, but I forgot, in your world everything that goes wrong for Republicans is Clinton's fault.

Should I also point out to you that the tech bubble created over 60% of "Clintons" jobs which burst in 2000.

You can try, but I will point out to you that there was an eight year tech boom before 2000. Under Clinton, manufacturing jobs went up for the first time since Jimmy Carter. Manufacturing jobs, not dot.com jobs. Bush, on the other hand has lost 2.5 million manufacturing jobs, 15% of the total manufacturing work force.

Even worse is the computer industry, which suffered 25% job losses since Bush was elected. Not to mention that the NASDAQ is less than half what it was in 2000. It seems industries which don't back (I'm a Uniter) Bush 100% don't get their legislation passed.

Should I also point out to how many jobs were lost due to 9/11 and Katrina?

You can try, but some might point out that disasters usually increase economic activity- it's called the broken window effect. A broken window generates more economic activity then an unbroken one because you have to pay someone to fix it.

Not to mention that these two disasters happened because the Bush administration was asleep at the switch.

"No new terrorist attacks on the US in the last 5 years!", you say. Should I point out that there were no attacks on the US in the previous 8 years?

Now you know why I call you my less intelligent counterpart. tj and the other anti-Semites are here only to disrupt. Not in the "defend my tribe by using three decade old acts to distract from current misbehavior” mode, but in the “everything is the fault of the Jews” mode. Frankly as pathetic and anti-intellectual as your commentary is, I much prefer your idiocy to that of the purely disruptive. But when you pretend they are part of the left – that’s just your tribalism kicking in and overriding what common sense you have.

There is a single anti-Semitic poster and a handful of his sock puppets you brain-dead apologist for Republican misbehavior.

Actually Will, There is a single anti-Semitic poster who has ferreted out a lot of ugly comments from a lot of loyal liberal posters. As a liberal and a Jew, I find the underlying anti-jewish hatred from liberals to be as unsettling as the idiotic apologists like Jay and Al.

What a blessedly dead thread at last.

Heh. Those shock (!) puppets showed up in the Hastert-Gate thread and they were summarily run out on a rail.

Really sad when you have Jay and Will Allen making the harshest arguments against them ...

Bob

That's a $600,000 profit on the land deal - not bad.

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Oh great conservative deflator, when Mel Reynolds got his pardon as the Clintons left office, was there a money trail to the deal? Just asking. You seem to know a lot. You may even know what the heck it was that Sandy Berger risked jail to steal from National Archives. Any ideas?

Also, the only reason we didn't have a major catastrophe this year in the form of liquid explosives going off in maybe a dozen airliners on the same day was because Pakistani intelligence actually caught a key link in the chain. Do you suppose they tortured the guy, or did he just hurriedly confess because of a troubled conscience? I think being the president of Pakistan must be the world's worst job, when you are caught between Islamic extremists trying to assassinate you every few weeks and the virtual certainty that if a spectacular 9/11 style attack carried about by Pakistanis abroad succeeds, the reaction by the present governments of Britain and the U.S.A, at the least, is going to be "disproportional" in a major way.

I see the coward who employs my name has reappeared again, in an attempt to deny that a regular poster here, who usually defends the Democratic Party, recently declared segments of the population "marginally human", and tried to justify the assertion with a bunch of pseudo-scientific yammering about his understanding of neurobiolgy. That's a pretty good indicator of sympathy with Nazi ideology, and, unfortunately, that is, all too frequently, what some "liberals" have come to.

I just wanted to comment on the Hillary Cattle trading-
Mrs. Clinton probably had advice from friends in the industry. thats fine.
she only invested $1000 and wound up making almost $100k.- no problem- you can do the same in vegas.

why didnt she continue? Risk. Huge Huge risk. she was probably risking everything with every trade.
and she wisely got the hell out while she was ahead.

So whats the problem?

Will Allen,
we didnt have a huge terrorist attack involving liquid explosives is two fold:
1)an english muslim, in the same community as the wanna be bombers, called the cops on them becouse he thought they were suspicious and was a good citizen of that country. they were subsequently surveiled using search warrants. would that good fellow have reported them if he was afraid that his fellow muslim's would have been tortured? no way we can know without him telling us but the answer is clearly that he would have been less likely to.
2) liquid explosives arent practicle. the Register in the UK did the definitive article on that.