Sadly, No!

Uh, nope.

Hey, an abusive daddy is still daddy, right?

some of the nation’s most prominent evangelical leaders were known in the office of presidential political strategist Karl Rove as “the nuts.”

In the spirit of bipartisanship and reconcilliation I extend my hand to Mr. Rove and say "Finally we agree on something.."

Kevin - Do you expect the Democrats to court Evangelicals?

Is using OFB (or any gov't dept) for partisan purposes illegal?

Kind of like Blacks in the Democratic party.

The Republican Party is just a criminal organization, through and through.

They're going to catch on, and the Foley scandal might make them catch on this month -- and, while it might not mean votes for Democrats, it might mean fewer votes for Republicans as the conservative Christians retreat to the purity of their churches and away from the impure hurlyburly of politics.

And that's fine with me.

Cleverly done. Phase II in the attempt to cut the Republican base out from under the next election.

Kind of like Blacks in the Democratic party.

I guess you think that whole civil rights/voting rights thing was just a big con job.

rnc is correct. Phase one being the massive explosion of the debt, the ignoring of the Constitution, and the placing of the electoral interests of the party above the welfare of 16 year old children.

... are social conservatives ever going to catch on to the way they're being conned by the Republican Party?

No.

This has been another episode of Simple Answers To Simple Questions.

So how long will it take for Rove to make Kuo either retract his story or insist that he was misquoted. Longer than Diulio or O'Neill?

No, Phase I was, among other things, the Foley scandal and "Allen is a Jew."

Believe me, Democrats do not want to be running on the economy or national defense. Getting conservatives to stay home might do it.

Democrats have never been able to win on what they really stand for. They can only make Republicans lose.

Five bucks says the next shot will be the "Bush abortion" urban legend.

If the Republicans cynical attempt to exploit the Schiavo case didn't make it superabundantly clear that they despise the people who vote for them, it's hard to know what would.

rnc, what flavor is the koolaid on your planet?

That's true rnc. If only babs had aborted her trisomy 21, GW, much of this self induced national misery could have been avoided.

That particular group has an enormous capacity to ignore facts and evidence in favor of what they want to believe, and they particularly reject statements from "outsiders," regardless of the evidence on which the statements rest. So I would say that they will ignore all the problems as coming from Satan or Satan-inspired people.

Do you expect the Democrats to court Evangelicals?

Posted by: Frequency Kenneth

Actually the Democrats have more in common with rank and file evangelicals than most think. For the most part they are just Americans like you and me. They are looking for stability and hope in a very scary world.

The evangelical leaders on the other hand are just as cynical as their Republican clients.

5 will get you 10 that guys like Rove were saying this behind the backs of the evangelicals:

"...poor Jesus, he didn't get paid for walking on the water...".

It would be in his nature to say something like that.

But then again, both the 'Pukes and the bible-thumpers had a scandal like Foley coming to them and chewing a big chunk off their asses.

Karma can really suck at times.

Believe me, Democrats do not want to be running on the economy or national defense. ... rnc at 10:30 PM |

As long as the Bush regime makes fools of its followers, its only followers will be fools.

Of course the Democrats can run on thier economic and defense record. The Clinton admin saw a booming market, fiscal responsibility, and effective action in the Balkans. At the current count, Clinton is definitely a better war president than GW. The Balkans puts him ahead. The democrats at least run government. The republicans are trying to grind it into the dirt.

The democrats are not great. But republican administrations have out spent previous democratic ones, time and again.

What is this economy/defense thing? The republicans are proven loosers in both these areas. Are the democrats asleep?

The not so bad lack all conviction while the predictably inept are full of a passionate intensity.

rnc

From your point of view as a partisan outsider, what do Democrats really stand for? Inquiring minds want to know.

Ron - did you hear the McCaskill-Talent debate on KCUR?

Evangelical conservatives will ex-communicate Kuo before they believe anything bad about Bush.

Wow, this increases my respect of Tucker Carlson slightly ...

re-reads the part of Al Franken's "Lies" where Carlson was dishonest about the Paul Wellstone memorial

Nope, still a hack.

Who Would Jesus Defraud?

are social conservatives ever going to catch on to the way they're being conned by the Republican Party?

Since they live in a faith-based world, the answer must be No.

A significant portion of the actual questions posed by Democrats to nominees to the Federal courts are veiled -- clumsily (and phoned in to Schumer, Kennedy, et.al., by the likes of People For the American Way), but really mean: "Are you now or have you ever been a Catholic?"

That gets folks attention. Also there's that general condescension, vituperation and mockery thing from the secular left. The Goldberg, Phillips, NPR, TPM, Kos/FireDog, "authoritarian" tag is a blast too. Love those guys.

Karl Rove is a slightly more sophisticated version of Larry "Lonesome" Rhodes of A Face in the Crowd - Distain for the "hicks" who support him - Could only Karl have an open mike and rolling camera moment as well.

Global,

Missed the fireworks - Really liked her, but Talent seemed to attempt to come off as a "Gosh, I'm really reasonable and a nice guy" - Was this an attempt to play beyond his base?

Believe me, Democrats do not want to be running on the economy or national defense.

This is what comes of people simply believing stuff, without actually looking out the window.

Democrats: budget surplus
Republicans: secret earmarks, budget deficit

Democrats: North Korea stops building bombs, nothing happens
Republicans: North Korea starts building bombs, d etonates one. Ignore 9/11. Bomb Iceland when something happens in Mexico. Use invented "War on Terror" to scare people and win elections, while doing nothing about actual terror - and why should they? As long as they accomplish nothing, electorate seems to believe they are accomplishing something. Until, that is, recently, when electorate begins to wonder what all this money and all these dead people are actually accomplishing.

By all means, let's have this conversation. A party that can't actually do anything with the government they control, is going to make us safer? Hohohohohoho!

Lemon.

I do not know if Ted Haggard still meets regularly with the president, but Bush believes in what these evangelical conservative leaders have to say, and people like Haggard are beyond 'nuts.' They really want to create an electoral block of righteous servants to control elective office and assert their agenda. The people who follow them will not give up the ghost easily. The power of large groups and mass media has been harnessed by evangelical conservative leaders, and the people who follow them do not obtain mainstream information without a fine filter and a direct admonition to honor and obey God's anointed.

"... are social conservatives ever going to catch on to the way they're being conned by the Republican Party?" Kevin Drum

After just watching Bill Moyers tonight on the question of whether God is green in regards to the burgeoning environmentalist movement, or as they call it creation care, within the Evangelical movement I think this process is already underway. I think what has been happening are the pebbles at the beginning of the landslide within the base of the Evangelical movement moving them away from the cynical exploitation by the GOP powerbrokers. Ever since Reagan brought them in along with the then young Turks within the political element of the Evangelical movement (Ralph Reed for one example) they have been a strong base for votes to gain/hold elected office/power with only lip service to their agenda. They are seeing just what kind of success having a so called born again President with a "Christian" GOP party controlling both houses of Congress has brought them and even for a mindset that is first defined by the tenets of their religious faith it is hard to miss just how little things have changed for the better for them.

I think the GOP and many of it's partisans that today mock the idea of evangelicals and the liberals/lefties ever making common cause are going to be in for a very rude awakening in the not too distant future, and I am going to love watching their shock as the "nuts" they have relied upon for political power stop being their sole vote preserve. I really liked one comment I heard from one Evangelical on that show, that to be Biblically consistent can require political inconsistency. Indeed, one of my reasons for holding the current leadership of the religious right in such contempt is how blatantly they have sold out their faith to the service of a political agenda/ideology instead of the greater agenda/ideology of the faith they claim to profess believing so deeply. I grew up around true faith holders and I respect true faith holders as I have mentioned in the past. These are not such, their so called representatives here are not such, if anything they resemble in the Bible most are the Pharisees.

...if anything they resemble in the Bible most are the Pharisees.

Yeah, that was always my pet name for Charlie the Troll.

Crooks and Liars has video of Olberrmann covering the book:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/10/11/olbermann-exclusive-dissecting-new-book-tempting-faith/

Craigie the sad thing is that this current crop of trolls don't even try. They just type whatever over-used retread line of sh*t that pops into their head.

btw are you busting out the wig for All Hollow's Eve?

The whacked out Jesus freakshow? Kevin, your preaching to the choir. The bible thumpers were hijacked by Rove and we all knew it in 2000. Tucker is seeing the writing on the wall...finally.

btw are you busting out the wig for All Hollow's Eve?

Huh? Is my cover blown?

Surely someone would want to use those Rove-via-Kuo quotes in an ad about Foley. If the shoe was on the other foot, the Repubs would do it in a flash.

The Republican party at the moment looks like the British Tories in 1996 more than anything else. John Major sought re-election based on a 'Back to Basics' fake moral campaign while Tory MP after Tory MP got caught up in sleazy sex or corruption scandals.

It's the self-serving cynicism and hypocracy that ought to be the story of Foleygate. Appointing him chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children while knowing of his taste in under-age teens.

The only part of this story that's hard to believe is that evangelical leaders, the ones who actually get to vist the White House, are religious nuts. One would assume that they are just cynical con-men, Robert Tilton types, birds of the same feather as Rove.

Pssssst...Hey, Republicans hate gun owners too!

Like I said a few days ago, are social conservatives ever going to catch on to the way they're being conned by the Republican Party?

FDR was accused of conning the social liberals and socialists. It was even said, in 1937, the "The New Deal is dead."

True believers are always disappointed by elected officials.

It was the center-left that brought direct funding for private and parochial schools to the Netherlands. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen here.

I don't know if you've ever read Gary North's books, but even his friends call him Scary Gary. I am a Christian person but not an end timing, rattle snake kissing fatalist hypocrite, and their are many of us that aren't.
Plz Don't blame all Christians for the behavior of the action of these politicians. This is certainly fallout from the Abramoff, Delay, Cunningham, Safavian etc that they have seen or heard about, and well, too bad it had to hit the Republicans Around election time. Tsk Tsk.

Dang what happened did someone shoot the trolls with SOMA?

It is unlikely the Christian right will accept the national Democratic party (local is different). The Democratic Party kicks racists, homophobes, etc. but anyone who slams Christians is welcome. The Christian right gets access with the Republicans, and ridicule with the Democrats.

The Democratic Party kicks racists, homophobes, etc. but anyone who slams Christians is welcome. >/i>

Name me one national Democratic Party leader who slams Christians. Just one.

*crickets*

Razorboy -- please don't use trisomy as a butt of a joke. Trisomy 18 was one of the most painfully sad things ever to happen to our family.

We offer a variety of travel related services, including discount and cheap travel, travel guides, cheap insurance quotes,discount hotels, hotel chains, cheap airfare, and discount car rental.

If I had to diagnose Bush, I would say he more likely has hypoxic/ischemic brain damage. Or syphillitic sementia. Take your pick.

Democrats have spent 2 generations mocking religious conservatives, and they wonder why Evangelicals don't vote Demo ?!?!?!

Gee, Frazier, what a fascinating point. Workd long on that?

The two party system has maybe another decade, then we will have at least one more on the national stage. If I were a betting woman - and I am not - I would venture the hard right social conservatives will be the core of the Republican party, socially moderate but fiscally conservative voters will be in the Democratic camp, and the first third party to garner electoral representatin will be liberal socially and fiscally, with environmental issues at it's core. Like the Green Party in Europe or the Pacific Party in the Pacific northwest.

I could be wrong. I'm not after Jeanne Dixon's gig. Just pure speculation.

Of course Democratic candidates for higher office hate Christians. That's why Carter taught Sunday school and Kerry goes around with a Bible and a rosary. Dukakis practices Greek Orthodox Christianity because he hates Greeks, Orthodox people and Christians. It's all part of their evil plan to hijack Christianity by getting a Democrat elected Pope, like that Heath Ledger movie.

Thank all you conservatives for your brilliant insights that a handful of party activists represent the views of a party's leaders. I had no idea that kid with a Che shirt in your freshman philosophy seminar represented FDR, Stevenson, JFK, LBJ, RFK, McCarthy, McGovern, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore and Kerry. Apparently this is a completely uniform group. It's nice to know that. That makes things simpler without all those pesky facts and nuances.

The worm is turning folks, and what a show it is! My evidence? An incredible night of television, full of people who truly get it. These voices had no platform a few years ago, now they are all over the place. Their influence has got to be powerful.

1. Bill, “national treasure” Moyers. He reported on how the evangelicals are becoming environmentalists and breaking with the Bushies who they accuse of being in the pockets of the energy lobby. "You can fool some of the people some of the time..."

2. Jon Stewart. When has such an effective voice for progressive ideas (or any kind of ideas, for that matter) ever been heard on the national scene? Can’t forget Steven Colbert, either.

3. Anna Quindlen on Charlie Rose. She said about 20 true things. The Dem candidates have only to listen to her. It is our job to make sure they do.

4. The best was last. Eve Ensler, author of “The Vagina Monologues” on Tavis Smiley, absolutely blew me away. She is so quick, so well spoken and so right, she gave me tears and goose bumps. The women came across as anything but the cold “feminazi” formulation of Rush Limburger. They were love and compassion and family and every good thing incarnate. That is how you win.

5. With the Repuglies everywhere falling on their faces and with so many effective voices for goodness out there, this has to be the end for the whole Republican gestalt of fear and loathing. If God is on anyone’s side it has got to be the Dems. Follow these people and we can not only turn the country around, we can turn the world around.

If the Republicans cynical attempt to exploit the Schiavo case didn't make it superabundantly clear that they despise the people who vote for them, it's hard to know what would.

Gawd, that was awful. And I was so ashamed of my Senator, Bill "long-distance diagnosis" Frist. He's a Presbyterian from Belle Meade (the toniest, old-money-est of neighborhoods/townlets in Nashville). But he was out there in front of that thing, and at Just-Us Sunday like he was a foot-washin' Baptist from Bug Tussle.

And that's not even getting into his pissing all over the Hippocratic Oath, not only with Ms. Schiavo, but with his insistence that AIDS can be spread via sweat and tears. The man was a successful heart-lung transplant surgeon. There's no way he believes that crap, but he said it on the record.

Thing is, he ran as a moderate. Tennessee is conservative, but people here don't like wingnuts.

I've taken great joy watching him screw up his position as Majority Leader. I realize I'm laughing right along with that racist bastard Trent Lott, but I don't care. His presidential run will be a festival of hilarity.

The two party system has maybe another decade, then we will have at least one more on the national stage.

Bzzzt! Thank you for playing! Nah gah hap'n. The system is set up for a two-party system. Unless one party utterly collapses, which is not bloody likely, the closest you're going to get is Ross Perot. And he had jillions of dollars.

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There are people who would still vote Republican even if Denny Hastert had personally sodomized their five-year-old.

Sorry, the evangelicals are still struggling with entering the modern world -- when will they finally accept that science is reality and evolution is true?

There is a fundamental willingness to oppose reality and believe/follow misleading leaders (charlatans) in the evangelical community.

Well, it's been pretty clear to me for a long, long time that George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and others in the inner circle are NOT Christians.

They appear to belong to some sort of Druid-like death worship cult....

'There are people who would still vote Republican even if Denny Hastert had personally sodomized their five-year-old.
--Nancy Irving

Nancy, that is one nasty, nasty visual. I think I am gonna be ill.....

The Christian Right knows where things stand. They know that the GOP's economic agenda takes precedence over the social issues they care about. They're not disillusioned, because support for Bush and the Republican party are just the ways they express their hatred of liberals. Bush and the GOP are a vehicle for them, too. No matter how little they get in policy terms, the enemy of their enemy is still their friend.

And tell one of those "christians" that Jesus Christ was a liberal and you can see their heads explode. My cousin stopped talking to me when I pointed out that obvious fact.

More shoddy thinking from the left. Do you really want social conservatives to figure out that they're being conned? You just assume that would be a good thing where in fact it'd be good only if they pick up their ball and go home sulking. Much more likely is they'll redirect their fanaticism and become more politically efficient - or possibly worse the GOP could actually start taking them seriously! Is that what you want? Nobody wants these wackos taken seriously. It buoyed my spirits to know that Rove thinks that way too, I didn't start thinking "Hey, theocons, y'all wake up now". Let sleeping dogs lie.

There are people who would still vote Republican even if Denny Hastert had personally sodomized their five-year-old.
Posted by: Nancy Irving

Word!

Democrats have never been able to win on what they really stand for.

Conning evenagelicals is your idea of winning on
what the Republicans really stand for ?

I've been watching the Christian Right play Charlie Brown to the GOP's Lucy-pulling-away-the-football for more than 20 years now, and I keep thinking that at any moment they'll wise up. But they never do.

"... are social conservatives ever going to catch on to the way they're being conned by the Republican Party?"

The social conservative movement is just another form of populism. Those sorts of people really have no allegiance to left or right so much as they want to listen to the guy who says what they want to hear. Remember that William Jennings Bryan was a Democrat.

Kevin asks: are social conservatives ever going to catch on to the way they're being conned by the Republican Party?

About the same time they concede the planet might be just slightly more than 6000 years old and that dinos were killed in the Flood.

We're not talking about people capable of rational thought.

make that 'dinos were NOT' - eek.

Sorry 'bout that.

In case nobody has noticed, anyone that takes the Bible literally is an idiot. I don't know how else to put it. They need a good education. They also happen to worship authority--which makes them prime targets for fascists of every stripe. There is a reason why fascism was born in Rome. These people are sheep. Victims all their lives. Deluded and self-righteous. They are a plague.

Is the far left ever going to catch on that they are being pandered to by the Democrats?

Case in point: Iraq War.

They all talk the talk during the campaign or on the TV shows "We need to pull out now!".

But when the votes are counted?

Case in point: Gay Marriage.

Again, a lot of good chatter in the off season, but the issue is missing come platform time.

Case in point: NHC

I don't see that as a plank in the platform

"are social conservatives ever going to catch on to the way they're being conned by the Republican Party?"

No, because they're to fucking stupid.

Jay forgets that the Democrats are in the minority.

How is the Minority Party supposed to fix these issues when the Republican Majority is too busy chasing male pages? Your boy Foley was in the cloak room playing butt pirate with underage boys while Democrats were trying to get their amendments heard.

Your side has done a good job of removing input from the Minority Party in legislation, and when we take the House and Senate (God willing) I expect Reid and Pelosi will leave the rules as they are and effectively end the Gingrich revolution, permanently rendering the Republican Party to oblivion for all time. Or close to that.

Is the far left ever going to catch on that they are being pandered to by the Democrats?

Good point. I mean, the Democrats have controlled all three branches of the government for, what, 10 years now? And still the haven't moved to pass any of that legislation. All we get is homilies and excuses.

Is the far left ever going to catch on that they are being pandered to by the Democrats?

Hey! Check out this cool documentary; I think it should pretty much answer a lot of your questions.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ

May have already been covered...BUT IMHO the most damning thing Tucker said is that there are "elites" in the Republican party!

"How is the Minority Party supposed to fix these issues......" - frail rider

Well they could start by just adding those issues as leading issues in their campaigns and election platforms. Do ya think?

"Your boy Foley was in the cloak room playing butt pirate....blah blah blah" - frail rider

And your Pussy Pirate President was too busy getting hummers while NK built a bomb.

"...permanently rendering the Republican Party to oblivion for all time. Or close to that." - frail rider

You do have delusions of grandeur.

You're a pathetic left wing puppet.

Sadly, I don't hold on to James of DC's happy thoughts about the direction things are going...I WANT TO...but 2004 damaged my ability to "think positively"...still, when our daughter (who has been brain-damaged since 16 by exposure to BORN AGAINS) begins to actually "question" the likes of GWB (a paragon because he says he's BORN AGAIN) and shows signs of actually returning to the CRITICAL THINKING she grew up learning to do in our home...perhaps I can have some hope. Think it "turned" when the pastor of their NC church recently told her that the partner of her uncle wasn't "in heaven" because he lived for 26 years "in sin"...course she should have seen that coming...but, delusion is right next to that RIVER IN EGYPT!!! I want to believe!!!

And your Pussy Pirate President was too busy getting hummers while NK built a bomb.

Donald Hall? Is that you?

Dancer, think for yourself and quit letting others influence your soul.

True happiness and the true value of your life is within your own soul and will never be found externally.

You'll always be disappointed if you're looking on the outside for sense and validation.

for any person that claims to be christian and still vote republican demonstates without a doubt that, that person either is not knwoledgable, or has no understanding of the meaning of the teachings of Jesus. Let the buyer beware.
.

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