Back to the Middle Ages is our rallying cry!

The key thing that will come out of this election is that the Democratic party still has a middle. The GOP lost their middle 10 years ago.

Clinton's impeachment will prove to be for the GOP what Vietnam was for the Democrats.

After reading Hacker's blogs in this forum, I have been further convinced that the main problem with Democrats is their tendency to self-flaggelate. If the Dem pundits and leaders keep on saying that the Dems need to have a vision and continually engage more in thinking about processes than in actually doing something, the Democrats at large should hardly be surprised that the people have the image of the party as a rudderles and powerless ship.

Thomas1 just proves my point.

The Sun will be endorsing an almost unanimous slate of moderate Democrats this year.

And why should the people of Kansas care that a couple of left wing media types are endorsing liberal democrats? The fact is that the citizens of Kansas support the conservative agenda. It was the citizens of Kansas who voted for the board of education which rejected evolutionism in the class room. It was the citizens of Kansas who vote for the board of education which wanted to bring back school prayer, creationism, and phonics to our children. If conservatives are so out of the mainstream, why do people vote for them in elections over and over again? Liberals like Steve Rose don't understand values voters becauase they are so left wing they are out of touch with mainstream America. That is why liberals and democrats keep on losing elections.

Ross Douthat and his blogging partner Reihan have been on this case for a while now, from a right/center perspective. I highly recommend them if any of you lefties wants a sane, non-wingnuttish perspective from folks to your right.

Thomas1

I am a Nobel prize winner.

Al proves my point, too -- but his first post above only uses the word "liberal" derisively three times. That's light criticism for Al.

Al does throw in the term "left wing" twice, so if we count that then we're up to five derogatory references to the conspiracy Al most loves to hate.

Al, the people of Kansas are getting tired of 60s polemics. Can't you come up with something better than 40-year-old reactionary politics? Times have changed -- Kansas (and the rest of the country) have apparently moved on.

Baby Killer!

I'm a registered Democrat.

you're a well-known liar

No.

This is the meme that the liberals are setting up in expectations of gaining seats this November. Its more important to paint the Republicans as (somehow) cracking up, than concentrate on the Democrats; because they are devoid of Idea’s and don’t represent the values of a majority of Americans.

Moderate Democrats voted to give President Bush war powers to invade and occupy Iraq.

Moderate Democrats voted for both 'Patriot' Acts.

Moderate Democrats voted for the energy bill.

Moderate Democrats voted for the credit card company no bankruptcy protection bill.

Is Kansas a weathervane for the nation?

I hope not.

Fitz,

You have it wrong. A majority of Americans in 2000 supported Al Gore's values. Unfortunately, a majority of the un-elected Supreme Court supported 43.

Whatever posters like Al believe about Kansas voters, the Johnson Cty Sun was bemoaning the lack of real representation for traditional conservatives. The Republican party doesn't stand for much of what Kansas voters believe anymore.

BLACK RIBBON TUESDAY is tomorrow, October 17, when President Bush signs the Military Commissions Act of 2006.

PJ, add up all the acres in the states that voted for Bush and you have a majority of the country's acreage on Bush's side!

Hostile,

Many of the moderate Dem votes were defensive votes cast to avoid being portrayed as anti-defense, cut-and-run appeasers in battleground states.

With a change in House and Senate leadership you a) won't see many of those reprehensible bills making it to the floor and b) more votes will be cast with the leadership.

Now that Kansans see how readily the GOP manipulates their patriotism, war, defense and first-strike foreign policy are becoming the GOP's cement overshoes.

Electoral acreage! (n'yuk, n'yuk)

And within those acres, I think you have a majority of tumbleweeds on Bush's side.

“You have it wrong. A majority of Americans in 2000 supported Al Gore's values. Unfortunately, a majority of the un-elected Supreme Court supported 43.”
Still bemoaning the past huh? The “popular vote” is a constitutional irrelevancy. The race is not played that way and both parties know that from the beginning.
Regardless: the American people re-elected and ratified the choice of Bush by the largest Voter turnout in U.S. history.
However - I like your talk about the dangers of an un-elected Supreme Court & the trouble it causes.

Fitz,

Democrats will always bemoan the 2000 election.

Get over it.

Al writes:

It was the citizens of Kansas who voted for the board of education which rejected evolutionism

"Evolutionism"?

Is that even a word, Al?

I'm a registered Democrat.

Seig heil, Kamarad!!

Fitz on October 16, 2006 at 1:50 PM:

Its more important to paint the Republicans as (somehow) cracking up..

Heh...The 'Publicans are cracking up, Fitzie, just as their 'coalition' of disparate interests and faulty policy was doomed to do.

Pre-fab failure. No paint necessary.

..than concentrate on the Democrats; because they are devoid of Idea’s and don’t represent the values of a majority of Americans.

Funny. This Steve Rose guy Kevin's quoting disagrees with you. A lot.

Franks original book got it half right

“In the book, Frank examines what he calls "The Great Backlash", which he describes as a reactionary movement against the cultural changes of the 1960s and 1970s. According to his analysis, the political discourse of recent decades has dramatically shifted from the class animus of traditional leftism to one in which "explosive" cultural issues, such as abortion and gay marriage, are used to redirect anger towards "liberal elites".

He then goes on to argue (unsuccessfully) that the Democrats have some (mysterious) master plan that will save the (lower &) middle class’s from the new economy – and that these pesky “values” issues are really a smokescreen.
Except they are not. People hold traditional beliefs close to there heart- they have been to college and know how radical these people are. They see cable T.V. and realize what contempt the left has for religion and traditional values.

Mark Parkinson was the state chair of the Kansas GOP from 1999 until 2003. He is running for Lt Gov as a Democrat. Eight other former Republicans are now running for office in Kansas as Democrats.

Kudos to the great work of Governor Kathleen Sebelius (D)for eliminating a huge deficit and building back trust in Kansas schools. She has a 70% approval rating in Kansas and did not have to topple Saddam to achieve that support.

Johnson County is a white flight suburb of Kansas City - Largely Republican - the Johnson County Sun has never been liberal - This represents a major shift.

Now, if the farm communities begin to follow suit, happy days may indeed be coming back again - of course with wheat prices soaring, some of the Pub "independent" farmers will continue to vote Pub while praying to DC for support. Hmm, the old one hand on the bootstrap, the other with palm up for government relief.

Um, guys, can't you recognize a fake AL postby now? I mean, I know that real AL can sometimes sound a bit like self parody, but not to this extent.

Chuck,

"Evolutionism" is an Intelligent Design Vocabulary Word Builder.

It's one of the multiple choice questions on the new Intelligent Design SAT. This test is given only in Topeka and parts of Pennsylvania, but its popularity is growing. Orem, Utah, is adopting it next year.

FYI, "truthiness" is also one of the new word builder terms and I hear it will be on the next test.

Prove even ONE "lie"

i already have, liar.

Give it time, people, give it time. We'll see the delayed impact of the Bush Administration for the next twenty years.

Fitz on October 16, 2006 at 2:10 PM:

They see cable T.V. and realize what contempt the left has for religion and traditional values.

Yet they still watch...

..and that these pesky “values” issues are really a smokescreen.

They are - the corporate interests controlling the Republican party didn't have their 'legions' of voters until they manufactured enough faux outrage to get 'values' voters to the polls...

And it looks like those voters are finally waking up to what Republican values really are.

you have a majority of the country's acreage on Bush's side!

Just do not call them wise-acres.

Many of the moderate Dem votes were defensive votes cast to avoid being portrayed as anti-defense, cut-and-run appeasers in battleground states.

That is why I disparage moderates at every opportunity. Moderates are the enablers of Chauvinism, war, and first-strike foreign policy and are the first to cut-and-run from political principle and appeal to the worst amongst us in order to save their plum jobs.

My, my! Those with paid to post jobs are back at it again.

A telling list, Hostile.

Politics and governance under our system, and given human nature, is a tug of war. Some(radicals) pull hard and others(moderates) not so much. Currently the extreme right has a fair amount of influence(pull) and the extreme left has almost none. Thus the moderate democrats are being pulled into the mud. To reverse this rightward shift, moderation is not enough. Desperate times require desperate measures.

I'm a registered Democrat.
Posted by: Thomas1

And I vacation on the moon...and it's really made of cheese! But then again, I enjoy eating dirt...

Steve Rose is a very well known Republican in this part of the country. His news paper has real influence in Johnson County.

Kansas is a funny state. There are basically three parties. There are the Democrats. Being in the midwest the Democrats are mostly moderates by any standard--Dennis Moore and Kathleen Sebelius being the best examples. Then there are the traditional fiscal conservative Republicans from the Bob Dole school -- David Rose is one of them. Then there are the crazy theocratic Republicans. Sam Brownback and Phill Kline are the primary examples. Out of the crazy ranks come the folks who opposed evolution for religious reasons. Over the years the crazy religous Republicans have seized control of the Republican apparatus. "Hate" is perhaps the best word to use when talking about the theorcratic Republicans. They hate the moderate Republicans nearly as much as they hate the Democrats. Steve Rose is reflecting the frustration traditional Republicans have in their own party. This year one of them has switched parties to run against Phill Kline for attorney general. A very popular hardnosed prosecutor, Paul Morrison has a good chance against Kline. His campaign is based on the right of medical privacy which Kline thinks can be compromised in the pursuit of his anti-abortion agenda.

Anyway, if you wonder why a solid Democrat like Kathleen Sebilius can be elected governor in Kansas just think triangulation. When the Republicans nominate a crazy, a Democrat has a chance because she can pick up all the moderate Republicans. Moore has been triangulating for years. The first time the folks in his district nominate a traditional Republican he becomes a lobbyist.

Prove even ONE "lie".
Posted by: Thomas1

That you're 67 and you registered to vote in 1958.

2006 - the rise of the Prairie Underground

Hostile,

On the whole I think the Congress has been much better off with than without the moderates. In today's political climate unless you are in a very safe district championing liberal values is a quick way to get your ticket stamped back to Hoboken.

Once we get a better president elected moderate Dems will be in a better position to draw moderate Republicans into supporting such Presidential initiatives as the repeal of the Military Commissions Act.

And why should the people of Kansas care that a couple of left wing media types are endorsing liberal democrats? The fact is that the citizens of Kansas support the conservative agenda. It was the citizens of Kansas who voted for the board of education which rejected evolutionism in the class room. It was the citizens of Kansas who vote for the board of education which wanted to bring back school prayer, creationism, and phonics to our children. If conservatives are so out of the mainstream, why do people vote for them in elections over and over again? Liberals like Steve Rose don't understand values voters becauase they are so left wing they are out of touch with mainstream America. That is why liberals and democrats keep on losing elections.

I never respond to the Al-Bot, but I am making an exception.

Steve Rose and I used to belong to the same synagogue, when I lived in Roeland Park, KS which butts up against Steve's community of Mission Hills. Steve Rose is no "liberal Democrat" I can assure you in the first person. His father started Sun Publications and built it from the pressroom up. He was a solid sober business Republican, and Steve's apple fell in the shade of the original tree.

You obviously know nothing of the man - or the politics of the region - to make such a ludicrous claim.

The pattern is this: Sane, fiscally conservative Republicans never make it onto the ballot - they lose in the primary to candidates like Kay O'Controversy (Kay O'Connor) and the fundamentalist agenda. The fundies put them over the top in the low-turnout primaries, then they fizzle in the general because their radical agendas do not go over well with the general public.

Yes, Kansans voted for the candidates who eviscerated the science standards - but they also turned them out in the primary. Kansans went out in 106-degree heat to cast primary ballots on Aug. 1 - in record numbers - and when the news-outlets interviewed voters, they all said they wanted to vote against the fundies on the state BOE.

I spent a decade-plus active in Kansas politics. I have squared off with Mark Gietzen (former head of the state GOP) on multiple occasions. Our children were classmates.

This is a change I saw coming after the Republican Civil War erupted between the Gietzen and Shallenberger factions of the Kansas GOP. And I'm wondering if it is possible to overdose on schaddenfreude?

A major problem with dismissing the moderates, is that of a Committee for Public Safety developing. Then one is left (or right) with the infighting over who is the purest of the pure.

Moderates tend to take it in the ear, no matter which extreme or radical wing wins.

the American people re-elected and ratified the choice of Bush by the largest Voter turnout in U.S. history.

"by the largest Voter turnout"?? What the fuck does that mean. An incumbent President won by a very narrow electoral margin. Go shove your voter turnout up your ass.

Still bemoaning the past huh?

Golly, stolen elections tend to infuriate some people. Who knew?

A similar thing may be happening here in Kansas' neighbor to the south, Oklahoma. Our governor, Brad Henry, appears to be on his way to an easy win over the GOP's Ernest Istook, who's quitting Congress to run for this seat. Henry is a moderate Dem (the only kind of Dem Oklahoma really has) who's soft-spoken and uncontroversial. He's relatively young and just seems like a nice guy. Istook has nothing to hang on him.

Even more telling, though, is what's happening in the race for Lieutenant Governor. The GOP candidate is Todd Hiett, the current Speaker of the (state) House, and a man who in past elections would have seemed a shoo-in: his campaign commercials feature all the usual hoo-ha about his strong values, religion, helped pass the largest tax cut in state history, etc. Yet the polls I've seen show him losing (albeit within the margin of error) to the Dem candidate, the grandmotherly Jari Askins. (She, too, has been a member of the state House.)

I refuse to count any chickens before they're hatched, but something certainly seems to be rumbling beneath the surface.

I live in Johnson County, KS and I sure don't see many Republican bumper stickers/yard signs like I used to. Those who intend voting Republican at least have the sense of shame to stay quiet about it....

UM if things are so honky-dory then why is James Baker even involved.Answer:THINGS ARE FUCKED UP.

fitz: They see cable T.V. and realize what contempt the left has for religion and traditional values.

61-percent of American adults believe that Republican leaders have been ‘protecting Mark Foley for several years. - Rasmussen Poll 10/5/06

"The White House made it very clear I have to run." - GOP Mark Foley early 2006

sucker...

kchiker: I live in Midtown but cover the occasional shift in JoCo hospitals (as school permits) and I haven't seen many either. Even Republicans are cringing at Barnett and Ahner (the opponents facing Sebelius and Moore, respectively) and Phill (never trust a guy who can't spell 'Phil') Kline is an embarassment.

Have you caught the debates on KCPT?

By the way - Steve Rose has a weekly local events show on KCPT called Talk Back). The name wasn't lost on those of us who have read the Sun. It too has a Talk Back page. Some real flame-wars erupt in that print forum.

To AL and all his third nipples,Your tone would lend us to believe things in Rightwing world are not good,Please go back and read your posts from that last 10 months and you will see how your demeaner would say you know your on the way out the door.Sorry, but Stay the course is not a plan.

My mother was born and raised in Cowley County, KS, and I spent a lot of time there while growing up, visiting her family.

Until the last few years, I would have told you that Kansans were solidly conservative, but they were inherently not fanatics. I started to wonder about that, though, when they started electing guys like Jim Ryun to Congress.

I've been truly heartened lately to find that my original assessment is looking better all the time. I've got absolutely nothing against honest conservatives; it's the liars, plutocrats, and kool-aid drinkers that I have trouble with.

Ah Jim Ryun - of the Kansas-02. Former world record miler, who can't run far enough or fast enough to get away from the taint of a sweetheart deal on a DC townhouse. The US Family Network is the only recorded seller of a DC townhouse in the last two decades to actually lose money on a dwelling that hadn't been gutted by fire.

Ryun's opponent, Nancy Boyda, is polling in the margin of error, and hasn't received any money from the DCCC.

And across the state line in Missouri, it is getting interesting too.

Global and Ron Byers,

Check out the recent column by Steve Rose in the Sun regarding Phil Kline - Says that he should stay home in Kansas and fight crime, not travel around the country, on tax payer's money, and fight for the soul of America. One of Bill O'Reilly's favorite guys, that Phil.

Basically says to get out of office and go preach.

Yeah, and Global, I know another reason you like Sun pulications - They print the Nursing reports for the region.

Global Citizen, the men of the Seventh Kansas Cavalry Regiment, Jameson's Jayhawkers, salute you. Well, they probably would if they were still around.

Thanks Paul-3..:) (*blushing*)

I caught the debate between Dennis Moore and opponent that KCPT aired this weekend. It was like they took a not-particularly-well-informed 16 year old and made him debate Dennis Moore.

in an ill-fitting suit!

I live in Kansas and have reported on politics for many years. Steve Rose's editorial was a delightful shock. As others have said, Rose is anything but liberal. The newspaper's endorsement of a Democratic slate will overturn 56 years of tradition at The Sun.

I am cautiously optimistic about the outcome of the Nov. 7 vote. It looks like Sebelius will be re-elected. There is some chance of Attorney General Phill Kline being defeated, although that is far from certain. We may well see an increase in the new (since the Aug. 1 primary) moderate majority in the state Board of Education.

However, there are troubling signs. I've written today, and The Wichita Eagle has reported, on what may be an effort to repress minority voting in the state. Even if this wasn't done on purpose, it may still keep minority turnout low.

See more here.

Kansas is struggling. There ARE three parties with the GOP at deep war with itself, and people are really tired of officials who push a religious agenda instead of dealing with the issues Kanans care about like schools and health care.

Diane, you are in Lawrence - how is the Ryun-Boyda race looking to you freestaters?

Shocking the number of people on this board who know about Kansas. I live in Eastern Jack, so my attention is directed at McCaskill v Talent.

So it seems that the inevitable backlash is building against the radicals that hijacked the traditional GOP/conservative in the heartlands of America. It is nice to see. Yet one more data point in the cascade failure I always maintained would eventually happen to the GOP for allowing itself to be taken over by a bunch of religious zealots/fanatics that want radical change to what America stood for since it's inception.

You cannot keep proclaiming that America was intended to be a Christian nation when contemporaneous documentation demonstrates the opposite intent by the Founding Fathers without it costing you the moderates/rationalists within the GOP. It was always a question when and where the tipping point would come from, and it looks like the 2006 midterms may end up being that point.

No wonder the Trolletariat is running around like chickens with their heads cut of with their tired 60s era rhetoric about the dangers of liberals, liberalism, and *gasp* Democrats. The GOP may have been able to steal the 2004 election, but that was because the race was so close. Well these races do not look anywhere near as close, and if the GOP tries to steal this one it will become too difficult for most Americans to not believe that their electoral choices/decisions were nullified/stolen by the GOP in it's quest to hold power no matter the costs, even when those costs go to the heart of democracy itself. Since their commitment to democracy is simply another talking point (as demonstrated by their actions and inactions as opposed to their words) that the GOP leadership could and would do such a thing is no surprise. What has amazed me has been their ability in the last 6 years to keep the wider public from recognizing the massive vote rigging operation the GOP runs.

Hopefully finally real American conservatives are waking up to the fact their party was hijacked by radicals and criminals and are willing to fight back, first by defeating the current GOP and then cleansing the taint from their party. I am convinced that as more evidence of the real GOP MO comes out in oversight investigations by the Dem Congress the more the GOP will suffer backlash for the way it has treated American votes and security with contempt and as a secondary concern to their primary concern of gaining/holding power and doing favours to their wealthy friends/lobbyists to make them wealthy for election fighting AND for personal gain as has been cropping up as of late thanks to the Abramoff investigations among other things. Not to mention their practice of branding any voices that question/oppose them as liberals/pinkos/pro-terrorist/etc which we has watched for years against even those long time GOP supporters that cannot stand by and simply stay partisan when they see their principles being used to wipe the arses of the GOP leadership. Which is more important, party or country, and it appears the moderate GOPers see country first whereas the radicals see party first, ironically making the radicals like the Stalinists/communists that they rail against in their rhetoric aginst their opponents. Classic projection and sad irony all in one package. That is the true face of the current GOP leadership and their defenders, especially in our beloved Trolletariat.

Ron - did you see the Star this morning? The piece about Ike's opponent?

Johnson County is not Kansas.

Johnson County has the highest median income in the state and the nation's 43rd highest per-person income and 62nd highest median household income. Most of the county is suburban, being a part of the Kansas City Metropolitan Area.

I don't take the Star. I'll have to look the article up on line.

We beg to differ. JoCo is most certainly Kansas. Yes, it is part of the KC metro, but Overland Park is the largest city in the state. It does have a high percentage of college graduates, but Kansas itself has a higher-than-the-national-average percetage of degreed persons.

Don't just dismiss JoCo as "not Kansas." I sure paid state taxes when I lived there, to the state of Kansas, no less. Not Missouri, and not some nebulous etherial entity known only as JoCo.

I'm really not certain about Nancy Boyda (D) vs. Jim Ryun (R - and to the right of the far right).

No one gave Boyda a chance this year, and frankly, the word in Democratic circles in Kansas was that she ran a lousy campaign last time. I didn't see her getting much support on the local scene early in the campaign. Last time she seemed to alienate a few folks.

However, Boyda is showing signs of life right now, and Ryun is beginning to look a tad scared. He had Dick Cheney in last week to raise money. I don't remember him needing any help in the past.

Boyda says her internal polls show her and Ryun as running neck and neck. Interestingly, Ryun hasn't released his own polls, so you have to suspect that they are worrying him. So far, I haven't seen any independent polls released on the race.

However, unless I missed it (always possible), the Democratic Party still doesn't think Boyda has a chance of winning and isn't doing much of anything to back her. She isn't on their list of emerging races.

Boyda's problem, in part, is the way the Republicans redrew the district. They cut most of the liberal city of Lawrence (including me) out. They put the west side and rural Lawrence together with Topeka and other more conservative areas to protect Ryuns seat. If Ryun ever showed up in downtown Lawrence -- he seldom does -- he'd be booed off the street.

How's that for an answer? Maybe yes-maybe no.

Johnon County's population of 506,562 makes it the most populous county in the state. About 1 in 5 Kansans live in Johnson County. Kansas has 2 other serious population centers, Kansas City and Wichita. (Actually Kansas City, Kansas and Johnson County are pretty much the same place separated by a county line.) Beyond that Kansas has a couple of nice college towns, a few small villages and farming communities and a lot of farms.

I gave Nancy Boyda
fart of my meager allowance for political contributions. I want to see Ryun out on his keister.

I find it interesting that the Star has not yet endorsed anyone in that race - but they broke a longstanding tradition of endorsing Sam Graves on Saturday, instead endorsing Sara Jo Shettles in the MO-06. That was huge.

Topeka. Who could forget Topeka.

PART of my meager allowance. Freudian slip, maybe?

Topeka. Who could forget Topeka.

Having spent a few years in Topeka one day, I would like to forget Topeka...

The first comment in response to Rose's essay was this:

Right on. As a long-time Republican myself, it's time for a change. The Bush regime has made a rogue nation out of our great nation. It's time to clean house of the neo-cons and recover our reputation.

I'd say that's pretty meaningful. Read it and weep, Al, Hawk, Jay, Charlie, et al. Blindly supporting Bush is a dead end, even for conservatives.

It's good if they're coming to their senses after all this time. However, it's also sad to realize that the current Crazies in the White House probably expected this backlash and really don't care. They've had their run and done their damage and that was what they wanted. How much more they'll do before January 20, 2009 isn't clear, but we can expect some more awful things. After all, it is their goal to shake things up and destroy things to remind people 'government doesn't work'. 'Crazies' is indeed the right nickname for them. If the people see individuals screwing up they're not going to blame our governmental system which worked so well before with Clinton et al, they're going to blame the lyin' sons-of-bitches and kick 'em out.

I wonder, if the election is powerfully in favor of Dems, would the public accept a huge impeachment to get rid of all of Bush & Co. the way the Brits have 'lack of confidence' elections?

I think what Kansan's such as Steve Rose, and many other Republicans, are realizing is that their party has been stolen from them by the religious right. When Reagan was president, the Republican party stood for smaller government and lower taxes. Social issues were barely on the Republican agenda.

What today's Reagan Republicans are starting to realize is that the modern Republican party cares a lot more about legislating morality than it does about shrinking government and reducing taxes. After all, not only has the Republican congress raised spending tremendously, but when was the last time you saw a major Republican figure talk about lowering taxes?

I think what you are also seeing is a "flight to competence". Moderate Republicans are becoming alienated by the Republican's inability to do anything competently (which probably really rankles the business wing of the party), and are realizing that whatever they think of Democratic ideology, at least they know that the Democratic can run the government competently.

Shettles? I know, I know. Her campaign is nearly invisible. Damn I wish they had found a first rate opponent for Graves.

And the second comment to Rose's essay on the Sun website reads:Checks and Balances have been all but lost. Except for a coronation, we have a king who apparently despises our freedoms as much as he claims Islamo"fascists" (sic) do. The 1933 Enabling Act is a lesson of history to put side-by-side the Patriot Act for reflection. Google: . Chilling. Wake up and smell the fascism! I thought the 2004 election was the most important election of my lifetime. This one is.

The editorial pages have been a way-interesting read these days. I go to sleep at night anxious for the paper to show up, because so much is not accessable on the website.

MarkH on October 16, 2006 at 4:28 PM:
Crazies' is indeed the right nickname for them.

Actually I prefer to call them the "crackpot conservatives"

I've lived in both JoCo Kansas and Orange County and they are both very similiar, at least politically.

I lived in JoCo at the same time my sister lived in the O.C. - our (reform) Jewish mother was mortified and made us come visit her, asking repetedly "where she went wrong."

Former Republicans now running as Democrats are not liberals. Even if these 'Democrats' win, it is not a victory for those of us who think progressive economics and individual liberty should be guiding policy. It just means more conservative and moderate oppostition against liberals in the Democratic Party and lots more useless defense spending. When I received a direct mailer from Dr. Dean asking to contribute to the national party so canditates like these 'Democrats' can compete against Republicans, I threw it in the trash.

The liberal things on my personal agenda are non-starters in todays climate. I don't care where o9n the Democratic spectrum the candidates lie - if they can help neuter this miserable excuse for an administration, they get my support and my vote.

i didn't give money to the DCCC - Rahm Emanuel can kiss my ass, and a lot of red-state dems feel that way - but I totally back Dr. Dean's 50-state strategy.

The Missouri Supreme Court just handed down their decision on the Voter ID law - Judge Callahan's decision was upheld, the state supremes found the GOP voter disenfranchisement act unconstitutional.

Time to crack open the champagne!

Hostile, I share your concern. I live right next to Foley's district, and the Democrat in that race is a former Republican who was recruited by Rahm Emmanuel. It bothered me. But it doesn't bother me a lot now.

Here's why: I think the Republican Party is doing what Ronald Reagan accused the Democratic Party of doing: the GOP is leaving citizens, and citizens aren't leaving the GOP. As the converts become active in the Democratic Party, they probably will push it to the right. But maybe we'll gain more than we lose.

What we gain is this: We become a big-tent party of rational people. Ye Olde "Reality-Based Party."

When Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act, the Democrats gained the moral high ground but ultimately almost dwindled into a regional party of the northeast. Now we're keeping the moral high ground and capturing another hill -- that of rationalism. The Republicans have been the party of immorality and racism for 40 years, and now they're becoming not only that, but a small-tent, faith-based party with barely a toehold in the northeast and midwest.

I'll accept the tradeoff.

Give it time, people, give it time. We'll see the delayed impact of the Bush Administration for the next twenty years. Posted by: Tony Shifflett

That's the problem for any president, Democrat or Republican, after 2008: He/she/it will be saddled with the fallout of so many wrongheaded or just plain criminal policies courtesy of the Bush administration and his toadies and quislings (on both sides of the aisle) that not even Jesus could work enough miracles to fix the messes we will be in for at least a decade.

No nothing short of discovering a zero cost (monetarily and environmentally) fuel alternative could possibly solve both our domestic and international problems, as pretty much every foreign policy issue we have is wrapped up in energy.

I will be voting for Democrats, too, but it does not mean any of the current policies that aggitate me will change even if Democrats win back both houses of Congress. The only Democrats I would not vote for are the ones who voted for the war, but I do not have any of those in my district.

On the topic of good vs. bad with Republicans becoming Democrats...Before I moved to Kansas 20 years ago, I also had a stereotypical view that painted all Republicans the same. Since I've lived here, however, I've learned that members of the GOP, at least in Kansas, come in many different political flavors.

Just one example: I worked on the 2005 campaign that OPPOSED the ban on gay marriage in Kansas.

Our chairman was a life-long Republican who had a minor role in the adminstration of Republican Gov. Mike Hayden, who by the way, now serves in Democrat Kathleen Sebelius' cabinet. Our campaign treasurer was a very recent, but former executive director of the Republican Party in the state. Meanwhile, some of the staunchest supporters of banning same-sex marriage and civil unions were Democrats.

Nationally, I think we have to elect Democrats to put some kind of check on the out-of-control Bush Administration.

But don't judge all Republicans as being the same. It simply isn't that simple, and that's why the GOP is at war here in Kansas.

This letter to the editor was in the Kansas City Star today:

Democratic Party David Limbaugh’s new book, Bankrupt: The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of Today’s Democratic Party, is a must-read for liberals and conservatives alike.

Democrats need to wake up and realize how bankrupt their party has become.

It is the party of secular humanism, promoting moral relativism while mocking traditional moral values and attacking the religious right. It is the party of socialism, promoting class envy while spurning free enterprise and capitalism. It is the party of the ACLU, promoting judicial activism while opposing the literal interpretation of the Constitution.

Democrats, your party is bankrupt! It is weak on defense and national security. The reason is simple: The Democratic Party is run by the very same folks who staged anti-American rallies in the ’60s and ’70s. It’s so far left that conservatives are called “extreme right.”

Richard D. Swift
Bloomfield, Mo.

That letter, and it's author, got taken to the woodshed for an old-fashioned flogging here.

Arg... "simply isn't that simple?"

I meant to say: "It isn't that simple, and that's why the GOP is at war with itself here in Kansas."

Hostile,

My concern is not with traditional Republicans. I understand and respect those guys. They look a lot like moderate Democrats. Not long ago people where arguing that the two parties were basically blended, joined at the hip. Not that I like all that entails, but it is something folks can work with. It means you have to work hard to convince everybody of your position. What is wrong with hard work. It makes better social policy.

No, my concern is with the monarchists and the theocrats who don't believe they owe me or anybody who thinks like me any consideration at all. Just think, the majority of the majority rules the house. That means that the ultra right wing of the Republican party controls everything. No other ideas need apply. That kind of tribalism needs to be stopped. Those guys need to be pushed back on their heels.

No, a country where every voice is important is the country I love. A country where 1/2 the people can be ignored is a country that (1) walks off into unnecessary wars, (2) spends their children's money like a drunken sailor and (3) feels no need to obey the Constitution. In other words it is a country teedering on the brink of the abyss.

Topeka. Who could forget Topeka.

Who can remember Topeka? I mean, how many astronauts ever came from there?

(Anyone who's done the I-70 drive across Kansas will know what I'm talking about.)

You know, it just may be that Kansans have finally discovered the dicotomy between principals and results. Bush and the Republican Congress were given lots of credit for their conservative principals and their "values." Problem was, they weren't able to deliver on either. So, they're being shown the door not because their ideas were bad, but because the people selling thoses ideas couldn't execute them. Could Democrats do better? Maybe it's worth a try to find out. We couldn't do any worse.

Kansas got the Cosmosphere for a reason. My kids graduated from the same high school as the first black man to be accepted into astronaut training. He and his sister were the first black kids to enroll in that parochial school.

So, they're (Rethugs) being shown the door not because their ideas were bad, but because the people selling thoses ideas couldn't execute them. Could Democrats do better? Maybe it's worth a try to find out. We couldn't do any worse. Posted by: CT

Nope. The policies are bad and the people attempting to execute them are probably worse. You can't separate one from the other as people make the policy.

Here is a question to ponder. Just exactly what "conservative" principals and values are at the heart of the traditional Republican, and what principals and values are at the heart of the Republican party. It seems Rose's list of Repubulican party values don't find all that much resonance with tradtional Republicans anymore (if they ever did.)

Odd but I saw an ad for some Democratic Congressional Candidate saying that he was too conservative to be a Republican. The ad was pretty good. His list of conservative Democratic values were pretty sound.

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Global Citizen,

Glad that you will be able to read the editorial section in the Star - I, on the other hand, will no longer read the Oregonian's in paper form - We cancelled the paper.
Yesterday, the wishy-washy, fair and balanced Editorial Board of the Oregonian backed the Publican Ron Saxton over our incumbent Democratic Governor Kulongoski. Found several things where they disagreed with Saxton, minor points such as how to fund anything while cutting taxes, but they said it was time for a change.
Oh, the fair and balanced part. They did not support the reelection of the Publican Speaker of the House.

And we now return you to the land of William Inge; "Picnic", "Loss of Roses", "Dark at the Top of the Stairs", "Come Back Little Sheba" and "Splendor in the Grass".

Well at least you can still read the register-Guard which I read on-line myself as time permits.

When I lived in Junction City, we got both papers. That is too bad about the Oregonion endorsing Saxton. What I understand, kulongoski is a fine governor. Why are they saying it's time for a change? I mean, if it ain't broke...

That was me Paul. My daughter was using my computer earlier (hers crashed) and she commented on last weekends math thread over on the North Korea thread. No one ever comments here besides me, so I forgot to change it back.

I think people are finally figuring out that protecting their kids from teh cancer and teh unemployment are more important than protecting them from teh gay.

The Republican Party hasn't changed; it's been what it's been since 1994 -- and it was a lot like what it is now since 1910. What's changed is that the Party's been given power, so it's actually implementing the bullshit insanity which it promised this entire time.

Re being a "registered" anything, bfd.

I'm a registered ReThuglican't. Love to throw wrenches (albeit little itty bitty ones) into their primaries. I should be undeclared, but I'm too lazy to change. I will when there's a Democratic primary that means something in my district.

"It was the citizens of Kansas who voted for the board of education which rejected evolutionism."

I think they also UNvoted those people when they found out what they did, didn't they?

"you have a majority of the country's acreage on Bush's side!"

I'd wait a bit on that. I see the Mountain West, with its VAST acreage and libertarian ideals going against the Patriot Act Party and their denial of habeas corpus. Add states like Kansas and Missouri and I think you'll see acreage shrink considerably. Tho the ReThugs might win this measure just with Alaska and Texas.

Cal Gal - in Missouri we do not register by party. We ask for the specific ballot at the polling place. So my husband and I decide beforehand which one of us will throw the tiny little monkeywrench and which one will vote for the candidates we truly desire to see on the ballot in the general.

I'm a registered Democrat. Thomas1 at 1:40 PM

Still bemoaning the past huh? … Fitz at 2:03 PM

Holdie Lewis:

> What we gain is this: We become a big-tent party of
> rational people. Ye Olde "Reality-Based Party."

> When Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the
> Voting Rights Act, the Democrats gained the moral high
> ground but ultimately almost dwindled into a regional party
> of the northeast. Now we're keeping the moral high ground and
> capturing another hill -- that of rationalism. The Republicans
> have been the party of immorality and racism for 40 years, and
> now they're becoming not only that, but a small-tent, faith-based
> party with barely a toehold in the northeast and midwest.

Comment of the thread. Also some great words from Ron Byers on the
de-facto three-party schism which allows moderate Dems to win in
places like Kansas because the frothers dominate the GOP primaries.
And while Fitz brought it up and I vehemently disagree with his
conclusions, I think the thesis of "The Great Backlash" is probably
quite relevant as well. The modern GOP has learned how to co-opt
populism by undersanding that populism is fundamentally about
resentment of an Other. While they've worked to delegitimate all
strains of economic poplism as "class warfare," they've successfully
declared war on all sorts of other supposed "elites" -- trial
lawyers, gays, big unions, Hollywood, the coastal Establishments.

This is what's finally starting to crack -- the chimeras of these
supposedly menacing "elites" starting to fade -- to be replaced by
wide-bore resentment at the actual jerks in power. So call the
current Democratic wave a new populism that resentfully scourges the
incompetence, hypocrisy, mendacity, hubris -- of the governing GOP.

Holdie phrased it perfectly. At the moment it's a Big Tent of
the reality-based community. It's essentially everybody save
for fervent right-wing fundamentalists and entrenched corporate
interests. And that's not only traditional Democrats, but also
Main Street Republicans, constitutionalist libertarians (civil and
otherwise), fringe party supporters whose loathing of the Bush GOP
transcends their usual kevtching that the two parties are equally
useless, liberal evangelicals, self-identified Independents ...

It's an ephemeral coalition borne of a political moment, and it
will doubtless shake into something quite different after the
election -- but it may be enough right now for the Dems to win it.

It would be a problem to govern with something so unwieldly -- but
I disagree strongly with Hostile that a new Democratic big tent will
inevitably lead to trangulation with a demoralized and chastened GOP
minority. Just as the GOP built up its support by performing end-runs
around hapless Democrats -- so would a strong Democratic leadership
be able (much depends on Pelosi and Reid) to maintain party discipline
and at least be able to start unravelling some of the damage --
something which all of the aforementioned agree needs to be done.

Once we're in power as the majority for a few consecutive terms, then
perhaps maintaining power for its own sake will become a problem
again. Let's save worrying about *that* when the time comes, ok? :)

I tell ya, though -- I'd much rather have this than the GOP's
fundamental long-term structural problems. What will happen to them
is what they've been projecting onto Democrats for 30 years -- their
party is now captured by a ravenous, radical, take-no-prisoners base.
And unlike the antiwar, civil rights and labor activists who only
tasted power around the periphery even with Democratic Congressional
hegemony, the GOP base has had a seat at the table at the right
hand of Bush. They aren't going to give it up easily in the interest
of all the arguments the concern trolls toss at Democrats -- that
the GOP has been captured by unelectable extremists. Expect the
kind of fierce internicene warfare and circular firing squads that
make a primary debate exchange between Joe Lieberman and Howard
Dean look like the minutes of a mutual appreciation society.

Ronald Reagan's 11th Commandment ("Thou shalt
not speak ill of a fellow Republican") in this
new era will be hereby declared null and void.

Bob

The GOP did in fact steal the presidency, twice, and the GOP is in fact right now actively working to steal the 2006 Elections. A "do everything" Republican assault on democracy used intimidation, fraud, vote theft, computer rigging, machine distribution manipulation, a fake Homeland security alert, trashing of provisional ballots, denial of a recount and dozens more "dirty tricks" to produce a 118,775 "official" margin for Bush that was an utter fiction.

Exit polls in nine swing states showed Kerry a clear winner as late as 12:21 am on election night. Nationwide exit polls showed him with a 1.5 million vote margin in the popular vote.