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   During a recession, should college presidents face the same pay cuts as CEOs?
 Forty years of writing from Taylor Branch, James Fallows, Katherine Boo, Marjorie Williams, Joshua Micah Marshall, and more.
 With help from Washington, the for-profit college industry is loading up millions of low-income students with debt they'll never pay off.
 The best recent memoir from republican Washington is a hoax. That should tell you something.
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October 22, 2006
By: PSST! IT'S AN IMETABLE-TAY!....When is a timetable not a timetable? When the Bush administration is creating a "blueprint" for progress in Iraq:
Take your pick: (a) They're serious about this. (b) They're trying to put together a plan any plan in order to prevent James Baker's forthcoming recommendations from becoming the default "sensible" middle course accepted by everyone in the DC punditocracy. (c) It's meaningless except as political theater. Bush just wants the country to think he's busily working on something, and this is the something. I actually don't know which of the three it is. Maybe all of them to some degree. But while we're on the subject, note that this is all coming in the same week that the former head of the British armed forces gave his considered opinion about how we're doing in our various wars: "I don't believe we have a clear strategy in either Afghanistan or Iraq. I sense we've lost the ability to think strategically." He was talking about Britain, but obviously his remarks were aimed at the United States as well. After all, we're the ones primarily setting the strategy. I wonder how long it will take America to recover from George Bush's uniquely blinkered and self-righteous brand of ineptitude? In the past five years he's demonstrated to the world that we don't know how to win a modern guerrilla war. He's demonstrated that we don't understand even the basics of waging a propaganda war. He's demonstrated that other countries don't need to pay any attention to our threats. He's demonstrated that we're good at talking tough and sending troops into battle, but otherwise clueless about using the levers of statecraft in the service of our own interests. If he had set out to willfully and deliberately expose our weaknesses to the world and undermine our strengths, he couldn't have done more to cripple America's power and influence in the world. Beneath the bluster, he's done more to weaken our national security than any president since World War II. So how long will it take after George Bush has left office for our power and influence on the world stage to return to the level it was at in 2001? When I'm in a good mood, I figure five years. Realistically, ten years is probably more like it. And when I'm in a bad mood? Don't ask. It's really all very depressing. —Kevin Drum 1:01 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (107)Comments
It should take a very long time to recover. The next administration must restore the US influence but not the military might that is so opposed by everyone. It should be noted that a friend living abroad mentioned to me that most people do like America and Americans but cant stand Bush. Given that, there is still hope. Posted by: dalivision on October 22, 2006 at 1:07 AM | PERMALINKSo how long will it take after George Bush has left office for our power and influence on the world stage to return to the level it was at in 2001? Never. It's over. The world after 2008 will be different from the world in 2001. George W. Bush and his puppeteers squandered our reputation and our advantages. What they didn't waste, they stole. We're not getting it back. The best we can hope for is to rejoin the ranks of solvent and respectable nations, working to earn back alliances that may counterbalance the growing power and influence of China and other countries that have profited from our mistakes. Posted by: plunk on October 22, 2006 at 1:10 AM | PERMALINKThe world after 2008 will be different from the world in 2001 And it would even if we weren't hitting peak oil about that time. Posted by: Global Citizen on October 22, 2006 at 1:14 AM | PERMALINKUm, never, Kev. We are a nation on the decline. It happens to every empire. Our consumption habits have simply put too much strain on our ability to forge a rational foreign policy, and we are incapable as a society of changing our ways until change is forced upon us by a catastrophe or, more likely, a series of catastrophes. Bush has crowned himself dictator, an executive above the law, who will not be reined in even by a two-house majority of Democrats. Two more years of his recklessness will simply put us further beyond redemption. We may have to go through a decade or two of chaos and authoritarian rule merely to recover our democratic system, if that; hoping for anything beyond that is simply out of the question. Posted by: bobbo on October 22, 2006 at 1:17 AM | PERMALINKIf he had set out to willfully and deliberately expose our weaknesses to the world and undermine our strengths, he couldn't have done more to cripple America's power and influence in the world. I'm telling you, he did set out to do just this. He and Cheney are Al Qaeda sleeper agents. No other explanation makes any sense. Well, I guess except the possiblity that Georgie got levered into office as the public face of a bunch of corrupt megalomaniacs who just wanted power and money, but no actual responsiblity. But who would believe that? Posted by: craigie on October 22, 2006 at 1:20 AM | PERMALINKGOSH Kevin! I don't think that I am the only one who is so sick of your posted views on things that are so important. How about if I just make some comments...."I just don't know","I can't make a decision","I am torn","It's not my pay-grade","I need more facts"ect.,ect.,ect,ect,ect........I would like to see a whole thread like that.You might as well be a Troll yourself! Posted by: R.L. on October 22, 2006 at 1:22 AM | PERMALINK"I think its also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn." -- George W. Bush Posted by: croatoan on October 22, 2006 at 1:22 AM | PERMALINKAnyone who thinks we can just continue on down the primrose path for another 30 years is fucking delusional. This is the first of many energy wars to be fought over dwindling fossil-fuel resources. The industries that are sustained by these resources are being propped up, even though it is an exercise in futility because the resource is finite. (This topic makes my head explode. Fair warning.) How much progress could we have made toward alternatives with the money spent to fight for six months. And what the hell has happened to the Apollo Alliance website? Posted by: Global Citizen on October 22, 2006 at 1:27 AM | PERMALINKSo how long will it take after George Bush has left office for our power and influence on the world stage to return to the level it was at in 2001? Recover? Kevin, you're deluding yourself. America has never been in a stronger position. When Clinton was in office, North Korea and Iran were building nukes knowing that Clinton would do nothing to stop them, Saddam was killing his own people and putting them in rape rooms and torture chambers while he was funding terrorists organizations, and Lebanon was under the control of Syria. Today, North Korea and Iran are under threat of military attack if they try to create nukes. That's why they're demanding negotiations with America. They know without negotiations, America would destroy them and destroy their military capabilities. Today, the terrorists in Iraq are running in fear because they know the new free and democratic Iraqi government with the new Iraqi army are hunting them down and killing them one by one. And after the Cedar Revolution, which was inspired by Bush's liberation of Iraq, Lebanon is free and democratic free of Syrian influence. What could be a better situation than this? Posted by: Al on October 22, 2006 at 1:28 AM | PERMALINKThey know without negotiations, America would destroy them and destroy their military capabilities. How, pray tell? With what Army? Frankly, the invasion gave Iran the decisive victory in the Iran-Iraq war - which we thought ended in the 80's, by the way. History takes the long view, but Americans do not. Posted by: Global Citizen on October 22, 2006 at 1:32 AM | PERMALINKAl, you are sniffing glue. What military would we attack North Korea or Iran with? We can't even put in the proper amount of troops in Iraq. We are destroying our National Guard system. There is no new Iraqi army; the shambles that exists is underperforming or infiltrated by insurgents--it cannot operate on its own. Israel just crushed the emerging democracy in Lebanon and Bush egged them on, pushing Lebanon closer to Hezbollah. We'll be lucky if we get away with sinking into obscurity like Great Britain. With our arrogance, I would not be surprised if the next rising 4: We're winning in Iraq, and our exit strategy is victory. I'm starting to understand the liberal lies about Ira: No matter how succesful the project is, it will never be so wildly succesful that liberals can't pretend it's a failure. It's much how liberals obsess over the minor blemishes of corporate america, while ignoring the role it has in creating wealth and jobs. Posted by: American Hawk on October 22, 2006 at 1:49 AM | PERMALINKAl, you're making even less sense than usual. Go to bed, for fuck's sake. Posted by: Stranger on October 22, 2006 at 1:49 AM | PERMALINKSo how long will it take I would say that a return to sanity would be welcomed almost immediately by most of the world. Of course, that isn't going to deter terrorists like Bin Laden from trying to attack us, so the real test will be what happens the next time we are attacked. Our subsequent reaction would be the true test of whether we've learned anything from Bush's mistakes. If we react well, we'll be well on our way to re-establishing our credibility with our allies as well as with our enemies. Posted by: enozinho (wetorture.com) on October 22, 2006 at 1:49 AM | PERMALINKNo matter how succesful the project is, it will never be so wildly succesful that liberals can't pretend it's a failure. That's right! Like 600,000 dead! I mean, what the fuck is that? Surely we can kill more people faster - this Boosh character must be some kind of moron. In Rwanda, they've managed to kill about a million of each other, and they've only got knives! Man, America just isn't what it once was. Posted by: craigie on October 22, 2006 at 1:58 AM | PERMALINKour exit strategy is victory.
Put down the crack-pipe. Victory is a desired outcome, but it is not an exit strategy, nor is it a battle plan. We're winning in Iraq, and our exit strategy is victory Retired generals say you're full of shit: "All in all, Iraq is a failure of monumental proportions."Adm. Stansfield Turner NATO Allied commander for Southern Europe, 1975-77; CIA director, 1977-81 Note: these quotes were from November 2004, back when the situation in Iraq was a LOT better than it is now. I'm convinced only the very dim troll here anymore. Posted by: Windhorse on October 22, 2006 at 2:04 AM | PERMALINKI'm afraid we'll never recover our position in my lifetime, but I am truly frightened for my children and grandchildren. The world they grow up in will be totally different than that which I remember. Posted by: Fred on October 22, 2006 at 2:06 AM | PERMALINKMcCaffrey, Zinni, Clark, Odom, Shinseki, Powell, McPeak, Eaton - and those are just off the top of my head. Flag-rank officers speaking out against the policies of a sitting CinC is unprecedented. Posted by: Global Citizen on October 22, 2006 at 2:10 AM | PERMALINKBush is not an Al Queda sleeper agent, he is a Chinese one. He has just pushed up the timetable for them to be the dominant world power - both economically and militarily - by decades. If you have kids, get them learning Mandarin early. Posted by: hopeless pedant on October 22, 2006 at 2:15 AM | PERMALINKTo address Kevin's original question: The so called blueprint is a feint nothing but a bone tossed to people who are teetering on the edge of loosing faith in the administration's handling of the Iraq war. It's like the compassionate conservative slogan it allows the many deluded people who really want to vote Republican but have doubts to reassure themselves that somehow Bush will do the right thing. It's a standard Rovian ploy, and as always, millions of people will fall for it. Of course, Bush is unable to do the right thing when it come to Iraq. A withdrawal without total victory would be a total repudiation of everything Bush has stood for since 9/11/01. No doubt many advisors inside and outside of the government are telling him that the war is lost and, in effect, every additional life lost is a life wasted. But Bush lacks the humility, introspection, and depth of character to let that possibility enter into his thinking. We went to war with the president we had, not the one we wanted and deserved. Now we as a nation, and more importantly, hundreds of thousands of innocent souls have paid and will continue to pay the price until Bush's time runs out and his successor inherits grim task of bring it all to an end. Bush will retire and comfort himself if the certain knowledge that he was always right and it was only the next administration that lacked the vision fortitude to succeed. A Shakespearian tragedy being played out in real life. God help us. aa Posted by: aaron aardvarka on October 22, 2006 at 2:21 AM | PERMALINK
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." Posted by: gcochran on October 22, 2006 at 2:23 AM | PERMALINK The problem isn't Bush so much as it is that Americans have proven themselves incapable or uninterested in electing sane leaders. If Bush had lost in 2004, his miserable regime could have been written off as an aberration. But he didn't, so it can't. I agree with bobbo's contention that America is in decline. There is no longer any generally-agreed idea of what it means to be American. We no longer excel at anything except entertainment and consumption. The things that make a country an exemplar, that make a country dynamic, are social and cultural: how intelligent and wise we are; how inventive and innovative we are in dealing with social changes and needs; how self-sufficient we are. America as a whole fails on all counts. Our culture and our politics celebrate ignorance, brutishness, and display. We've outsourced our manufacturing base. We don't encourage the sciences; our kids don't even study math and science. We don't encourage fine arts or literature, preferring entertainments that are simplistic, flattering, and require no thought or introspection at all. We don't encourage thinking, period. These are characteristics of a senescent culture, not a dynamic one. Posted by: CaseyL on October 22, 2006 at 2:50 AM | PERMALINKI have a feeling the bar for these "milestones" will be set unrealistically high, and the consequences for not meeting them will be the withdrawal of more American troops. This will set up the Iraqis to take the blame for the Administration's failure, and their country's further descent into chaos. Posted by: dale passchen on October 22, 2006 at 3:16 AM | PERMALINKRegarding how long it will take for the resuscitation of the U.S., the answer is never. A decline was of itself inevitable -- just look at a)history and b)global demography -- but a process which would have taken two generations plus has been accelerated. It is irreversible. Posted by: ither on October 22, 2006 at 3:34 AM | PERMALINKWell, who know the actual limits of this president's incompetency - probably the closest thing humankind have come in the way of infinity... But in any case, the scenario itself seems quite classical - we'll get positive sounds of a new course prior to the election and after that there is a speedy return to the reality of this utter disaster. This game was played to exhaustion during the Vietnam era. One wonders whether it will change the basic dynamics of the election but probably it gives some cover to the Republicans who are dropping "stay the course" faster than light (remember, just a couple of months back that very thing was still the equivalent of treason...) Where the grim reality itself was powerless to change the course, polls have turned out to be effortlessly stronger. Talk about playing politics with national security. Posted by: Jonathan on October 22, 2006 at 3:53 AM | PERMALINKRecover? Kevin, you're deluding yourself. America has never been in a stronger position. Lord God. Posted by: Finny on October 22, 2006 at 4:00 AM | PERMALINKSo how long will it take after George Bush has left office for our power and influence on the world stage to return to the level it was at in 2001? When I'm in a good mood, I figure five years. Realistically, ten years is probably more like it. And when I'm in a bad mood? Don't ask. It's really all very depressing. I don't really know what the question means, but I suppose if you're asking about American "power and influence," you want to know when we can call the shots like the good old days. Well, let's hope the answer is never. And that's not depressing. It's liberating. Better we live in a world where power is shared among a number of players. That so many in this country believe it is our birthright as Americans to be Masters of the Universe is the only thing that's depressing. The PNAC vision of the country has done nothing to help our cause, but it has done irreparable damage to the special qualities of our heritage that made us a great nation. Truth is, we had a unique opportunity in 2001. We were, one, the only superpower on the face of the earth, and two, on the receiving end of the world's sympathy after 9/11. We could have led the nations of the world in any number of ways. And frankly, we fucked up. We blew it. We showed the world that we cannot be trusted. We'll see better presidents come along, but let's hope that power to do anything with impunity is a thing of the past. It would only lead to abuse anyway. Let's get over it, and over ourselves. Posted by: JJF on October 22, 2006 at 4:04 AM | PERMALINKPresident Bush's Iraq "victory strategy" consists of scrambling to find any way to give the appearance of victory in a chaotic situation over which he now, in reality, has limited influence. 43's team barged into office on the slimmest of margins with a "Step aside, let us show you how it's done" kind of arrogance. But the neocons blindly mistook having power for knowing when and how to use it. We can begin to restore America's influence in the world by electing a Congress right now that can demonstrate to the international community America understands the power inherent in being responsible world citizens. Build from there. Posted by: pj in jesusland on October 22, 2006 at 5:20 AM | PERMALINKHow long will it take? Well, it will go alot faster if we impeach the bastards (that's Bush and Cheney) and start the process moving. Then we can get rid of Rumsfeld too. Posted by: Merg on October 22, 2006 at 5:30 AM | PERMALINKThat influence may never return. Look at history, over and over it is the case that what took centuries to build in the way of nations are quickly undone in a short time by a bad ruler. The nation often never recovers and just goes into a decline until it disappears. Bush and his cohorts act like they've been trying to champion the American way when in reality they've done more damage to country than if it had been invaded by hostile outside forces.
Despite my exterior cynicism, and a tendency towards snark, I firmly believe that a great American recovery is doable. Not only doable, but doable in remarkably short order. Of course we will need to get our ducks in a row and pay a karmic toll. That is why we need Barack Obama to run for and win the presidency. He is one of the sharpest pencils in the pack; he has had an internationalist up-bringing; he is charismatic; he can, and, will change the worlds perception of America. The visuals alone would send an important message around the world, America is growing up! Great people can manage great things. "sensible" middle course (Kevin) I don't think a middle course will work. The responsible thing to do (which we won't even consider) would be to flood Iraq with a million American and allied soldiers and police and hundreds of billions of nation building dollars for ten or twenty years. Of course the irresponsible thing would be to wash our hands of the mess we've created. What we will do is try various middle courses until we finally give up and get the hell out. The only good that will come of it is that American militarist jerks will be reluctant to invade any more countries for a while. Posted by: Gary Sugar on October 22, 2006 at 5:51 AM | PERMALINKTimetable? We can't afford to properly quip these units for fear they turn on our units but without proper equipment,there's little chance they can suppress the terrorists. The only way the Iraqis could do the job,would be superior leadership and there is no real evidence of that. So,a proposal that would look like a timetable will be as empty a promise as "as Iraqis stand up,we'll stand down". This lede was posted on CNN.com (emphasis mine): A senior U.S. State Department diplomat causes embarrassment in Washington after telling Arab satellite network Al Jazeera that there is a strong possibility history will show the United States displayed "arrogance" and "stupidity" in its handling of the Iraq war. The White House has distanced itself from the comments. Ya think! Posted by: Keith G on October 22, 2006 at 6:07 AM | PERMALINK On another note, I know I'm paranoid but you know all this giddyness about what the polls are showing for the Dems is reminiscent of recent times. I mean the last several elections. Will this be a repeat wherein people are allowed to get their hopes high only to have them dashed by once again having the polls and election rigged? Is this some twisted game by the foul creatures in office? Well it's the middle of the night so allow me a bit of paranoid speculation. One other thing. You know I've never been comfortable with the Repugs having the noble elephant as their mascot. Except for girth the elephant is nothing like them. Thus after careful consideration I believe their mascot would be more accurately pictured as a fat pig. A swine. They're loud, violent, greedy and love to wallow in mud. Just look at Rove's or Limbaugh's puffy mug and you'll instantly see the resemblemce. Seriously. Posted by: Umm on October 22, 2006 at 6:08 AM | PERMALINKI've often said that Bush's failures - foreign and domestic - would screw up this country for as long as I'm alive. 1) the "blueprint", like the road map and 'victory strategy in Iraq' are all bull, all theater. First and foremost, the situation in Iraq is completely out of American control - no one is really listen or cares. But also, the bushliar-criminal regime is incapable of putting together an effective strategy for anything, and the ones driving the bus have no desire to change course even if they were capable. So the "blueprint" if it emerges is meaningless. 2) its some leap of faith to assume that the US will ever recover from the reign of bush terror and destruction of the US. First of all, we haven't even started on any kind of road to recovery - we are still hurtling on the dissent to totalitarianism. The capabilities that enabled the bushlier-criminal reigme to gain, maintain, and grab power are fully functional, including a majority mindset completely devoid of principle whereby the ends justifies any means, and the media is fully on-board with enabling republican lies, deceptions, distortions, and manipulation. That bush could run a close race in 2004, that shredding the constitution could pass congress and which shredding could occur without widespread outrage, that bush could maintain a 35% approval rating inspite of all that is known about him, that there still is no functioning opposition, that the republican totalitarian threat is not recognized by the most...these all point to fully functioning totalitarian machinery: the mindset, the media enabling, the destruction of protections for dissent, religious influence in government, a leaderless opposition. Bush may or may not complete the total implementation of totalitarianism in America - his successor may need to; the midterm elections may or may not slow down the dissent to totalitarianism, but a turn around - nothing on the horizon as yet. Posted by: pluege on October 22, 2006 at 6:55 AM | PERMALINKI heard Bush say last night that he was considering a change in tactics, but not in his goal. I've forgotten what the goal is, in the meantime. To win? Win what? Where is there a gain for any American, other than the war profiteers? So how long will it take after George Bush has left office for our power and influence on the world stage to return to the level it was at in 2001? As we all tend to have a self-inflated view of our power and influence, I'd say our power - economically and militarily - is exactly the same. We can blow the planet up still, so we remain one of the gorillas in the room. Our influence is mainly down on the ethical scale, and will remain so till we have an ethical President in power for a few years, someone who reassures the world that sanity's returned. But if you mean the influence of our political leaders over every Dick, Jane, Jose, Giuseppe, Maria, Olga, Wen-hu and Kahlil in the world, I'd say that's largely irrelevant. Most folks are too busy getting on with life to trust our politicians or their own. Powerful people in other governments will still listen to pur leaders because they wield sufficient power that they cannot be ignored. Among the commonfolk, everyone but extremists and the easily misled recognizes that even a good people can marry abusive, idiotic psychopaths with a God-complex. They only get worried if we divorce them to marry another who's the same. WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Republican congressman responsible for protecting minors online and calling for more severe penalties for internet predators, Mark Foley, made friends with a wide circle of teenaged U.S. House of Representatives pages, then singled out "hot" boys to write to. A former top aide to Foley said he told senior aides to GOP house leader Dennis Hastert about Foley's behavior three years ago, but Republican leaders said they did not know about the explicit e-mails sent by Foley before media reports. Four more former pages have now said they were sexually solicited by Foley. One said Foley sent him e-mails years ago when he was 16 asking about "my roommates, if I ever saw them naked" and said Foley hinted about a GOP job opportunity "because I was a hot boy". Two years later the page wrote Foley to ask about hotels in Washington. "You could always stay at my place. I'm always here, I'm always lonely, and I'm always up for oral sex," he quoted Foley as saying in reply. Another former page said he felt he had to flirt with Foley. Foley has said he is a homosexual and an alcoholic. "I didn't want to piss off a member of an institution that I really revered," the former page said. "I figured maybe someday I will want to be involved in Congress. I didn't want to make an enemy." 2 Things: 1.Re Iraq: Recently I have come up with the "Producers" paradigm. Suppose, like the Broadway play, it were possible to make money by assembling backers for a war and then losing it on purpose so you didn't have to pay any of them back. Suppose we had asked the Producers to plan and execute the War and Post-War phases:do you think they could have done any worse? 2. American Influence: Yes, our reputation and influence have suffered greatly under the Bush Administration, but we can still come back. Whether it likes it or not, the World still needs us. Once a responsible administration takes over you will see a huge resurgence in U.S. influence. James M. Posted by: James M on October 22, 2006 at 8:05 AM | PERMALINKSadly, I agree with the many who believe AMERICA has lost it's luster...and, that getting it back will take decades. Often happens to BULLYS...still, when my daughter (and, perhaps son-in-law - he expresses NO POSITION) is beginning to have her EYES OPENED...they like to throw around the "WE'RE CHRISTIANS" talk but are finally noticing that the things that JESUS (who is ALL YOU NEED in their opinion) proclaimed and required are at the bottom of the LIST, they are wondering. In fact I KNOW my daughter won't be voting Republican this year...whether or not she votes at all I'm not sure of. SLOWLY one person at a time good old GWB is disillusioning his base! Is there enough time left before he completes the destruction of OUR democracy??? Posted by: Dancer on October 22, 2006 at 8:22 AM | PERMALINKVery unlikely the U.S. can stop the decline let alone come back. The outlines of peak oil and climate change are becoming apparent now. Europe will align with Russia, who supplies their energy, or freeze. China will listen to us precisely as long as Americans can afford to import from them, which is not much longer. We have severely damaged our manufacturing base and have no way of getting enough exports to eliminate the trade deficit, let alone to get enough money to pay off the national debt. Worse, the elites in the U.S. will continue on the present course to keep their own personal gravy trains running. 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It will probably be presented to Iyad Allawi, the strongman. Is it not great to be an empire? You get to depose at will. Once George gets the hang of it, he can move on to the Governors of New Mexico and Washington. Posted by: thethirdPaul on October 22, 2006 at 8:43 AM | PERMALINKHow long? Depends. IF there's a (pardon the expression) largely bi-partisan rejection of the neo-con approach, maybe 10 years with good leadership and some serious luck. Keep in mind that the Bush administration has greatly reduced our effective capacity. On the other hand, the rest of the world (even China and even Chavez) really wants us to play a leadership role. Posted by: BroD on October 22, 2006 at 8:44 AM | PERMALINK So how long will it take — after George Bush has left office — for our power and influence on the world stage to return to the level it was at in 2001? If we don't try any more insane adventures, America could recover as much as it will recover within five years. But the world is growing faster than America is growing. That can be good if we're wise enough to join something bigger and better. Posted by: Gary Sugar on October 22, 2006 at 9:12 AM | PERMALINK The American political elite, Republicans and Democrats, believe in the idea of a functional American empire. The American people are pretty much OK with it, too, except for one vital detail-they refuse to pay the price of running one. republicans are very skilled in the art of making democrats look bad and preventing them from acheiving any of their goals: review 1994 to 2000 if you doubt it. If you think for a second that bush would in anyway go along with a democratic controlled congress, your an idiot. So the options for the next two years include: ** a rubberstamp republican controlled congress that gets nothing done because most of the country hates them So... The US will have no means of starting recovery for at least 2 years, short of impeaching and removing bush and cheney, which in and of itself would take 2 years. see ya in 2009 (if there is anything left of the US). Three more Marines killed in the Anbar Province, however, DOW hits record high. Seventy Eight US troops killed so far in October, however more people own their own homes. Thousands upon thousands of Iraqi citizens killed and maimed so far, however, American citizens have unprecedented wealth due to tax cuts. Remember, liberals, We must fight them over there, so Jenna and Barbara do not have to fight them in country and western bars over here. Posted by: thethirdPaul on October 22, 2006 at 9:20 AM | PERMALINKTimeline: 1) Sectarian violence doubles again Never. Reese Schoenfeld - "It's time to get down. In fact, it's impossible not to be down. By now it is clear that Iraq is a war of deceit and defeat. It is equally clear that our political choice is between the incompetent and the impotent. Superpowers should be defined as having nuclear capability, energy surplus and a sound currency. We no longer qualify." "Under accelerating incompetence in America, this may change. Social systems can survive a good deal of folly when circumstances are historically favorable, or when bungling is cushioned by large resources or absorbed by sheer size as in the United States during its period of expansion. Today, when there are no more cushions, folly is less affordable." Barbara Tuchman "The March of Folly" "It is unclear how much longer the world will trade Americans real goods for pieces of paper that the US economy cannot redeem with tradable goods and services." - Paul Craig Roberts: 'Artificial recovery, real job losses' "It makes many angry that, in a time when America seems to be strip-mining its environment, its credit and its people, we are ruled by the most reactionary American political party to take power since the days when strikers were shot by state militia units, a party that has chosen not to address any of these problems, but instead, tells us that all will be well." Sterling Newberry Posted by: CFShep on October 22, 2006 at 9:39 AM | PERMALINKAn unfair libel of the porcine: >>A swine. They're loud, violent, greedy and love to wallow in mud. In point of fact, pigs are generally acknowledged to intelligent and clean - we're the ones who keep them in squalid conditions. Posted by: CFShep on October 22, 2006 at 9:45 AM | PERMALINK"America's power and influence in the world" As we can see, both parties are afflicted with this idea that the rest of the world can't survive without our "leadership," without an American empire or hegemony or globocop or whatever. Which is why I have little hope that things will change for the better with the Dems in power. Barney gives me great military advice. He assure me that victory is just around the corner! Posted by: George W. Bush on October 22, 2006 at 9:57 AM | PERMALINKSo how long will it take after George Bush has left office for our power and influence on the world stage to return to the level it was at in 2001? My father asked the doctor a similar question shortly before he died. Posted by: toast on October 22, 2006 at 10:16 AM | PERMALINK"Timetables", "plans", "blueprints" - they're all just liberal code words for surrender. In the end the American people know that our great president is resolutely pursuing Victory - nothing more, nothing less Posted by: Al on October 22, 2006 at 11:21 AM | PERMALINKI agree with Kevin that things aren't going well in Iraq. After that, I have some disagreements, several of which have been mentioned already. 1. Does the US have less power and influence in the world than we did in 2001 Let's see: in 2001, the Taliban/al Qaeda ruled Afghanistsn... NK was secrectly violating it's agreenments and developing nukes...Libya was developing nukes... Saddam had kicked out the UN weapons inspectors and was masively cheating on the oil-for-food program, while developing an enormous military... Syria controlled Lebanon by military force...the Palestinians routinely sent suicide bombers into Israel. In short, our alleged power and influence were nowhere to be seen in 2001. 2. Did the US have a reputation for being able to win guerrila wars before Bush came into office? Of course not. We failed to win such a war in Vietnam and haven't tried since. Our lack of success in Iraq merely confirm what the world already believed. 3. Is any country particularly good at winning guerrila wars against determined and ruthless enemies. No. Look around the globe at Northern Ireland, Peru, Colombiam, etc. Guerrial wars typically can last for decades. 4. Bush's failure to win a guerilla war should be balanced against his willingness and ability to win a traditional war. Our military did a terrific job in ousting the Taliban and then Saddam much more quickly than their critics predicted. As long as Bush is in office, tyrants fear US power. That's why Libya gave up their nuclear program. Similarly, Bill Clinton deserves credit for effectively intervening against tyrants in the Balkans, even though post-war conditions aren't ideal. Posted by: ex-liberal on October 22, 2006 at 11:49 AM | PERMALINKIt should be quite obvious that BushCo knows quite well how to wage a propaganda war: they "won" the presidency in 2000, gained congressional seats in 2002, and won the presidency again 2004. You may object that you were talking about America winning propaganda wars, but there you presuppose that they care about America except as a prize to be seized by the GOP. Posted by: dj moonbat on October 22, 2006 at 12:26 PM | PERMALINKSadly, even when this President hints that he is willing to look at alternative strategies, he uses language that further fuels the flames of fanaticism. In defining the goal of those who oppose us as a clash of civilizations, whereby he asserts that they seek to "extend the caliphate", he once again obfuscates the potential for reasoned clarity and measured dialogue. Unfortunately, I'm not sure he has the discipline needed to restrain his confrontational outbursts. Further, it has yet to be seen if he can moderate his goals to match that which can reasonably be achieved in Iraq and the Middle East. The larger question is if this President can accept the more modest goals to be offered by Baker's task force or if they will be met by resistance or even a campaign to discredit. It is increasingly difficult to determine where George Bush's convictions end and his need to be right might begin. He has held fast to the argument that he isn't concerned with polls or politics and yet his reported convictions continue to evolve to fit the changing circumstances. The essential question is how he actually views the concept of adaptation. The evidence suggests that he prefers to adapt his rhetoric to fit the circumstances rather than adapts his strategy to address the realities. As he receives this important report, I fear the former...but I'm hoping for the latter. Read more here: Posted by: Daniel DiRito on October 22, 2006 at 12:31 PM | PERMALINKLet's see now, according to ex-liberal the military did a terrific job in ousting Saddam. Saddam kicked out the UN weapons inspectors because he knew it was humiliating, it was a fishing expedition and because he had no WMDs. NK exploding nukes. Syria controlled Lebanon by military force, and the Israelis made it all better by bombing Lebanon back to the stone age. TRhe Palestinians routinely sent suicide bombers into Israel, and still do and will as long as they perceive regional inequity. Yes, the sweet smell of success. Posted by: Er on October 22, 2006 at 12:33 PM | PERMALINKBy the way Kevin, any way of banning mmf铃声 (lami2@126.com)? Posted by: Er on October 22, 2006 at 12:37 PM | PERMALINKTaliban/al Qaeda ruled Afghanistsn False. Al Qaeda had zero governing power in Afghanistan; they were a miniscule presence in the corner of the country living in camps. Once again you don't know what you're talking about. Secondly, as bad as the Taliban were by Western standards, they were the first group in a decade able to bring some law and order to a country that had been churning in the chaos of civil war, and the average Afghani respected them for that. Saddam had kicked out the UN weapons inspectors and was masively cheating on the oil-for-food program, while developing an enormous military That is ridiculously untrue. It's clear from how the war progressed that Saddam's military was neither enormous nor effective. Here's Gen. Zinni's analysis: "I saw the intelligence right up to the day of the war, and I did not see any imminent threat there. If anything, Saddam was coming apart. The sanctions were working. The containment was working. He had a hollow military, as we saw. If he had weapons of mass destruction, it was leftover stuff -- artillery shells and rocket rounds. He didn't have the delivery systems. We controlled the skies and seaports. We bombed him at will. All of this happened under U.N. authority. I mean, we had him by the throat."Gen. Anthony Zinni Commander in chief of the United States Central Command, 1997-2000 Please discontinue posting blatant falsehoods. The eight-grade analytics are bad enough as it is. Posted by: Windhorse on October 22, 2006 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINK"the military did a terrific job in ousting Saddam" Yeah, that rush northward from Kuwait will be studied by military experts and historians for years - Especially, how they were able to stave off that tremendous Iraqi Air Force which Saddam hurled at them. Hard to imagine the sheer terror faced by those tankers when Saddam's Herman Goering Squadrons of Stukas dove out of the sky. So many aces created that day in what will be forever known as "The Battle of Baghdad", or is that the current ground war. Never so few and all that. Posted by: thethirdPaul on October 22, 2006 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINKPaul - go check your email. I have arrived. Posted by: Global Citizen on October 22, 2006 at 12:54 PM | PERMALINKCraigie Why don't you think anyone will buy the idea GWB is the front for megalomaniacs who just want power and money ? In a heartbeat. So how long will it take after George Bush has left office for our power and influence on the world stage to return to the level it was at in 2001?
Now too many other world-power options are fast evolving, China, India, 'all-of-Islam', unified Europe, and that we have to become significantly engaged with Mexico, all of which will limit our ability to move arbitrarily in anything. Thanks, George! Posted by: cld on October 22, 2006 at 12:58 PM | PERMALINKWhen do we return to the level we were before Bush? As soon as we elect an intelligent adult to the office. It isn't like filling a swimming pool. The hard question is when do we elect an intelligent adult as president. Posted by: Jeffrey Davis on October 22, 2006 at 1:03 PM | PERMALINK"Stay the Course" is still #5 on the "Top 10 GOP Sound Bites List." Posted by: AngryOne on October 22, 2006 at 1:08 PM | PERMALINKI have arrived! This post was the featured link on Top Ten Sources. I'm liable to be insufferable for a while. Yesterday, I was on the same page with Matthew Parris from the Times of London. I want to get all heady about it, but pride goeth before the fall... Posted by: Global Citizen on October 22, 2006 at 1:12 PM | PERMALINKHere is that Global Research link that Opit referenced. Everything on that page is worth reading. Posted by: Global Citizen on October 22, 2006 at 1:15 PM | PERMALINKThe US will regain its moral infuluence when Cheney and Bush are impeached and sent to the Hague to be tried as war criminals- odds 1 in 100 to 1 in 10,000. Take your pick: (a) They're serious about this.... I think the answer is (d) Bush needs a way to evade accountability for the Iraqi debacle, and a timetable is just the thing. Let's face it, he can't blame himself or anyone in his cabinet for the ongoing problems in Iraq as that would make them look weak by essentially admitting to a mistake. So he's going to blame the Iraqis. Give them a timetable they obviously can't meet, "tut tut" when they fail to meet it, and use their "lack of cooperation" as an excuse to begin pulling out of Iraq (leaving forces deployed at permanent bases, of course). The Republican faithful already feel that the Iraqis are "ungrateful" for "all that we've done for them" (read the comments section of "Healing Iraq" for some utterly putrid examples of this). Pointing to an unmet timetable for "progress" is all this administration needs to convince their base that the Iraqis simply refuse to be helped, and hence the White House can't be blamed for the failures there. Posted by: Windhorse on October 22, 2006 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINKWe will never return to where we were in 2001. The Iraq invasion has demonstrated that the United States is no longer the superpower everyone thought it was 5 years ago. We are still a major player in the world, perhaps the most important player, but our dominance is no longer what it once was. Countries have also learned that they can thumb their noses at us (and I am talking about our European allies as much as our enemies), and while they may have to pay a price for it, they can still go their own way without any regard for us. Posted by: Guscat on October 22, 2006 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINKGive them a timetable they obviously can't meet, "tut tut" when they fail to meet it, and use their "lack of cooperation" as an excuse to begin pulling out of Iraq (leaving forces deployed at permanent bases, of course). The circular firing squad being formed by neocons is trans-atlantic. From yesterdays Times of London: It is no small thing to have embellished the philosophy, found the prose and made the case for the most almighty cock-up in politics that we are ever likely to witness. They meant for the best, these politicians, dreamers and writers. They didnt think it would end like this. But it has: more killed than even Saddam could boast, and nothing to show for it but an exhausted British Army and the global energising of violent Islamism on a scale of which Osama bin Laden never dreamt.Posted by: Global Citizen on October 22, 2006 at 1:33 PM | PERMALINK It is not just Bush, after all. It is the coalition, which elected him. The main trick in any political system is not to secure a majority for one party or the other, or for one political outlook or interest. It is to establish an implicit coalition of the sane and rational against the "radical" elements across the political spectrum. FDR established such a coalition, when he used WWII to put a moderate, internationalist group, including the Bush family, in presumptive control of the Republican Party. McCarthy and Goldwater, notwithstanding, "bipartisanship" became a standard pattern for good governance. And, it should be noted that it was a pattern that allowed Democratic leaders to strategically isolate the reactionary Southerners in their own Party. Bush is not an accident. His base elected him, because they see in him, themselves. To many Bush supporters, Bush's stupidity and ineptness is part of his appeal. Resentment is the dominating emotion motivating the mass of Republican voters, who are not rich. If the Democrats have a chance of achieving an electoral majority it is because a relatively small slice of Republican voters, who are sane and rational, are sufficiently disturbed by what they see, to migrate to the Democratic Party. It is possible that political power, itself, may migrate away from "bipartisanship" into the Democratic coalition, where moderates and liberals will forge practical compromises to move forward progressive reform, and isolating the irrational rump of the Republican Party. The Democratic moderates will derive significant support from Corporate America, which may be fatally corrupting, or not, and the liberals will derive support from a activist base and from the deep Blue, solid Northeast and West Coast. The resentful, faux populism of the cynical Rovian Republican machine may continue to aspire to political leadership, but fail to galvanize an effective response from Democrats, and from moderate and progressive political sentiment in the Northeast and West. Or, the Rovians may find it relatively easy to corrupt and subvert rational and responsible governance from their privileged positions, kinda sorta out-of-power, but still in charge of the bulk of the corporate Media and the lobbying establishment. Posted by: Bruce Wilder on October 22, 2006 at 2:11 PM | PERMALINKwindhorse and 3rd paul - it's easy in retrospect to point out weaknesses in Saddam's military. But, go back 3 or 4 years and read what libs were saying. They argued against making war on Saddam because he'd be so difficult to defeat. They said he had the 4th or 5th largest military in the world. They pointed to all his weapons stores. They said our soldiers would be incapacitated by the sand and heat. Etc. Now that Saddam is overthrown, you guys have finally figured out what George Bush knew four years ago. Congratulations! Posted by: ex-liberal on October 22, 2006 at 2:51 PM | PERMALINKBut, go back 3 or 4 years and read what libs were saying "Libs" like myself were saying that it was clear from the overall intelligence that there were no WMD's, that they were clearly a trumped up charge to invade Iraq for other purposes -- and that the army would not be that difficult to defeat (and might in fact surrender, which some battalions did) but that Iraq's factions would obviously devolve into fighting with one another. Now that all those predictions have been borne out, you have finally figured out what some "libs" knew four years ago. Congratulations. Posted by: Windhorse on October 22, 2006 at 3:01 PM | PERMALINKRecover? how long did it take Rome to recover from Nero? This is the single greatest challenge of the next decade, will we remain relevant and in ascendency, or continue the long interminable slide to being France? I have nothing against France, but they still live off of faded glories of the past, a lonely old baron shaking his staff at the whippersnappers everyone is paying attention to today. Make no mistake, this is our choice: power and influence or a setting sun on a glorious power. What do you want to tell your grandchildren? Posted by: northzax on October 22, 2006 at 3:19 PM | PERMALINKGeorge Bush in official complete mental dissolve,
Bush responded, Weve never been stay the course, George! . . . . Full transcript: STEPHANOPOULOS: James Baker says that hes looking for something between cut and run and stay the course. BUSH: Well, hey, listen, weve never been stay the course, George. We have been we will complete the mission, we will do our job, and help achieve the goal, but were constantly adjusting to tactics. Constantly. Posted by: cld on October 22, 2006 at 3:34 PM | PERMALINKSo how long will it take after George Bush has left office for our power and influence on the world stage to return to the level it was at in 2001? How long after the reign of Romulus Augustus did it take before the Western Roman Empire had the power and influence on the world stage it had prior to his reign? At least Shrub is consistent - Was it not 1971 or early 1972 when Lt Bush said: "I will complete the mission, I will do my job, I Kev wrote: The answer is: never. The confluence of climate change, peak oil, foreign debt, and ever-increasing population levels will see to that. But at least no one had sex in the Oval Office. That's what Really Matters. Posted by: josef on October 22, 2006 at 4:45 PM | PERMALINKjosef - careful or you will get categorized as a "peak oil crank" like me... Posted by: Global Citizen on October 22, 2006 at 4:50 PM | PERMALINKCareful, Josef. You might take all the joy out of the job. Sightful-iay ost-pay. Adly-say oo-tay rue-tay. "So how long will it take after George Bush has left office for our power and influence on the world stage to return to the level it was at in 2001?" I'm having a pretty good day; but, do not think America will recover in my lifetime. Posted by: Mazurka on October 22, 2006 at 5:59 PM | PERMALINK"So how long will it take after George Bush has left office for our power and influence on the world stage to return to the level it was at in 2001?" I'm more bullish on America than most of the people who have posted. I think, if GWB and the GOP goons can be replaced with moderately competent leadership, and the nation is willing, most of the immediate damage he has caused could be reversed within 5 years. (That's a big IF, however, when you realize that 35% of the population still haven't comprehended what a disaster this administration has been.) But there is no going back to 2001. We face, along with the rest of the world, catastophic environmental changes and severe population dislocations--peak oil, global warming, resource depletion, environmental degradation, the conflicts caused by human migrations. Bush has weakened the US's ability to respond to these issues, but though much has been taken, much abides. The question is whether US citizens will choose to roll up our shirt sleeves and move forward with generosity, imagination, courage and industry on these challenges. Or will we choose to wallow in late-stage empire decadence, bickering over the remote control, entitlements, abortion and SUVs? We have a country rich in resources, clean air, water, a working infrastructure. We have an energetic, motivated, educated population. We have a scientific approach to problems and a regulatory environment that works (if we can clean out Bushco). If Americans choose to address the environmental and social threats facing us, we will be as successful as any nation can be. If we decide we want to be a great nation again, a brilliant nation, a beacon to others, we need to do a few things differently. We need to recommit ourselves to our national ideals of liberty, peace, justice. Again, Bushco has attacked these ideals, but even Bushco cannot destroy ideals like these. If we start to act with generosity to other nations again, seeking the common good rather than attacking and exploiting others, the world will gladly accept our leadership. The failure of leadership that we have experienced over the past five years cannot be overestimated. On all fronts, Bushco has done the opposite of what needs to be done in order to keep the US strong. Posted by: PTate in MN on October 22, 2006 at 6:35 PM | PERMALINKYou left one out. He's demonstrated to the world that even those among us who most full-throatedly bay for blood, when push comes to shove, will not fight. I'm looking at you, 101st Fighting Keyboarders. Posted by: FreakyBeaky on October 22, 2006 at 6:45 PM | PERMALINKOur military did a terrific job in ousting the Taliban and then Saddam.... ex-liberal at 11:49 AMThe Taliban is resurgent in Afghanistan, Iraq under Saddam was a third rate power due to a decade of sanctions, Muammar al-Gaddaf gave up nuclear ambitions because of negotiations that let him make money selling oil. Iran, Lebanon, Syria now know they have nothing to fear from American bluster because our army is decimated by our losses in Iraq. We still have a powerful Navy and Air Force, but those cannot hold and occupy territory. Pakistan sold nuclear equipment and information only to be praised by the Bust regime, so there is no American authority to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons anymore. Now that Saddam is overthrown, you guys have finally figured out what George Bush knew four years ago... ex-liberal at 2:51 PMYou mean that four years ago Bush knew the war in Iraq would be FUBAR? Why didn't you tell anyone then? BUSH: Well, hey, listen, weve never been stay the course,... cld at 3:34 PMBUSH: We will stay the course. [8/30/06] BUSH: We will stay the course, we will complete the job in Iraq. [8/4/05] BUSH: We will stay the course until the job is done, Steve. And the temptation is to try to get the President or somebody to put a timetable on the definition of getting the job done. Were just going to stay the course. [12/15/03] BUSH: And my message today to those in Iraq is: Well stay the course. [4/13/04] BUSH: And thats why were going to stay the course in Iraq. And thats why when we say something in Iraq, were going to do it. [4/16/04] BUSH: And so weve got tough action in Iraq. But we will stay the course. [4/5/04] From the current look around the world, American power and credibility are finished in the Middle East. Asia is a province of China. No one wants Africa, and while Europe is still amenable to American influence, they will probably be turning more to Russia, as remarked upon above. Latin American has increasingly escaped from the Monroe Doctrine with more and more countries turning left and there is nothing the US can do to block them, which I regard as a good thing because our history of interference in that region is appalling. The best future policy for the US would be to reduce its military spending drastically and accept a world in which countries can pursue their own destiny without fear of American intervention. States themselves are failing. It's little wonder the US is losing power because that is the trend of all states. It would be the height of irony that Bush et al ushered in the recognized moment when America's relative decline began except that it has always been conservative theology that the state itself is the root of most problems. That presents of course the deep contradictions of conservatism. Bush et al have overseen the greatest wave of state power expansion since the 30's. In this case in the areas of what mightbe called police powers and of course the power to wage war, abrogate treaties and dismiss international law. How can an ideology champion limited government and world domination at the same time? Well rhetoricly they can attempt it but pulling it off was doomed to failue. I think we can assume Bushisms goal was not the weakening of America in order to fullfill the conservative ideological imperitive of shrinking the state, but is is a fun thought for the truely conspiratorial mind. States are in decline for many reasons, some of which are familiar. Modern communications and 'globalization' in all its threads are the root of the trend. These trends parallel the rise of corporations and there is a causal realtionship there which can be aruged about. I propose however the main driver is money, or rather the source of money and it's creation. It is little appreciated by the general public that money is created by the credit system. Even less appreciated, even by those intimate with the financial system, is that the credit system and thus money creation itself has become fully unhinged from the state. The vast flood of wealth generated by pure financial means over the last three decades which has flowed into very few hands has rendered states junior partners in matters economic. The ultra rich in China, Russia or America have different interests vis a vis national issues but all share the exact same interest when it comes to the value of their assets. They want them to grow. Iraq or any other myriad poor little places are to them sideshows. Mattering little or nothing at all. Don't believe me. Look at the dollar. Look at stock markets worldwide. 'News' of Iraq or politics is just noise. It doesn't mean a thing. State will play and do what they must as they pretend they are important. So it goes. Posted by: rapier on October 22, 2006 at 8:49 PM | PERMALINKThis isn't so much a blueprint as a carbon copy of what the Dems have been proposing regarding Iraq since 2004. Posted by: ckelly on October 22, 2006 at 9:34 PM | PERMALINK"If he had set out to willfully and deliberately expose our weaknesses to the world and undermine our strengths, he couldn't have done more to cripple America's power and influence in the world." Kevin Drum I've been saying this here for what, a couple of years now? I've lost count of the number of times I have said a foreign agent couldn't have done a better job of weakening American power than what Bushco has done and did in their first term at that. What makes the problem so intractable is that the world saw the American people ratify those decisions in 2004. I said then that if Bush won it would have serious long term negative effects on the power and reputation of America, not just with enemies but with her allies. I have said also that the one way I see of restoring the bulk of the blown power and credibility will be to repudiate Bush's doctrines for international relations/security while he is still in power, in other words impeachment. There needs to be a strong repudiation of things like the preemptive war doctrine, the abandonment of Geneva and Habeas Corpus. There needs to be apologies to those like Maher Arar of Canada for their improper seizures and subsequent sending to countries like Syria to torture them for information via extraordinary rendition. While American economic power can be recovered from within a decade to generation independent of such measures American moral authority and trustworthiness will not be so easy. As well, the next time America is attacked successfully how America and Americans handle/react will also play a role, as was noted by another already in this thread. Americans generally do not seem to really understand just how bone deep the disgust, anger, and distrust of not just the American government but the American people the 2004 elections left people with. Americans let what is the closest thing to the Nazi party in terms of foreign policy in a major western power since WWII stay in power despite their clear lies to start an unnecessary preemptive war in Iraq when the enemy that actually killed Americans on American soil was in Afghanistan. Americans remember 9/11/01 as a moment that changed the world, well the way that was twisted and manipulated to cause the Iraq war is also branded throughout the populations of the world especially in western nations whose publics opposed this idiocy from the outset. The resulting horrors that came from it have equaled to exceeded for many the horrors of the regime that was overthrown, and this was ratified in the minds of the world as the free decision of Americans in 2004. I know I tend to sound fairly hard core on this point, but I am simply giving you all my honest assessment. America has done itself such tremendous damage going from being the leader of the free world and respected as a flawed yet shining light of enlightenment with the muscle to protect itself and other believers of freedom to the militarily overstressed and overextended rising debtor nation with no moral credibility on human rights and a proven willingness to lie about the most serious of matters like nuclear weapons and ignore climate change. That is not a stain that will ever fully go away, and the only way to have a chance at fading it enough in a generation to make it almost invisible is to strongly repudiate the Bush/GOP vision of the world, America's place in it, and the doctrine of preemption which created/enabled the Iraqi disaster in the first place. rapier I suspect the correct choice is more (c) than anything. That is the only way to explain why James Baker has spent the last couple of weeks on the talk show circuit ostentatiously not talking about it. Why? The only thing that makes sense is that he is part of a campaign to be seen as doing something in hopes of bringing a little bit of the base back. Posted by: pjcamp on October 22, 2006 at 10:14 PM | PERMALINKScotian: "I have said also that the one way I see of restoring the bulk of the blown power and credibility will be to repudiate Bush's doctrines for international relations/security while he is still in power, in other words impeachment." Yes, though I am more optimistic about our ability to regain the respect of the world, I agree 100%. Well said. Posted by: PTate in MN on October 22, 2006 at 11:04 PM | PERMALINKPTate in MN: To be honest I would have much preferred for the sake of changing the political tone in Washington to a less partisan one to say the opposite, however the damage and abuses of power Bushco has committed and the GOP Congress let slide through requires it IMHO. The corrosive damage done has been extreme, which means exposure must be as well to have any realistic hope of rapid recovery of credibility and trustworthiness. If America thinks it can escape the past few years delayed accounting for and just move on with a change in government then the speed of repair will be massively slowed down. There must be an honest accounting for the sins taken before America will be allowed to move on by many in the world community, and some will never move on after what they have seen in the last four years. The only way I know of now that the 2004 elections have been accepted as genuine officially to undo a significant amount of the international damage done with allies' populations is to impeach this President on the grounds of abuse of his Office and deceiving his own people and in the process the rest of the world. Once this is openly shown and apologized for through actions not words then real healing will take place with some degree of rapidity. Without the repudiation until after he is gone and it will take much longer. You could say because what Bush did was so bold that the remedy must also be bold and not timid. The stain of dishonour Bush has brought onto America with his actions are some of the ugliest it has known, mild scrubbings are not going to fade them in the slightest, only strong hard scrubbing has a chance IMHO. Impeachment may be political dynamite, but it is also the only way left for America to repudiate the Bush policies that are at the core of global anger/distrust/hatred rising against America. Given what is known is likely to be found with real oversight instead of the rubberstamp to date should provide more than sufficient legal basis to call this President a criminal for his actions, which is why the GOP is so scared of losing the ability to prevent it. I know impeachment can't be talked about now because of the political environment this close to an election day but when we talk about restoring America's image and reputation abroad I really don't see any other way that does not take significantly longer and with less chance of wide success. Scotian: " There must be an honest accounting for the sins taken before America will be allowed to move on by many in the world community..." Again, well said, and I agree. If America wants to restore its moral authority, it needs to publicly repudiate the wrongs that this administration has perpetrated. And the only way to do that is by insisting that those who have broken the law--or those who have changed the law to accommodate their lawbreaking--stand trial for their crimes. Posted by: PTate in MN on October 22, 2006 at 11:49 PM | PERMALINK"o how long will it take after George Bush has left office for our power and influence on the world stage to return to the level it was at in 2001?" It won't. It's hard to see how W's damage can be undone. If W had been only elected for one term, then it's possible that we might have seen a shift back, but not now. Posted by: Urinated State of America on October 23, 2006 at 12:13 AM | PERMALINKKevin: "I wonder how long it will take America to recover from George Bush's uniquely blinkered and self-righteous brand of ineptitude?" We have never had an incompetent President before. We were spoiled. Competence begat sensible, fairly consistent, thoughtful actions. For some reason, in the years when we were watching "Forrest Gump" and "Dumb and Dumber", we got the idea that stupid was okay. Well, Bush proved that wrong. Incompetence doesn't beget any of the things we have taken for granted; incompetence only begets chaos. That is what we have: chaos. And, as we have been finding out, it wasn't just the Dumbass himself; it was a LOT of the puppets the GOP hand-picked to run for Gongress, too. We call them the rubber-stamp Congress. Well, that is just another way of saying they are puppets. Stupid puppets. We aren't spoiled anymore, are we? One of the things we will have to do to undo the chaos is to not let ourselves take competence for granted anymore. (I am not a Democrat) The Dems have put up some really competent candidates this year. If they can retake the Congress, we will have made a good beginning toward undoing the chaos. (The GOP didn't always give us incompetent candidates; there was a time when they put up competent and sane ones who were not puppets - it was a time you could respect them, even if you disagreed with them. That time may come again, but boy! do they have to clean up their act.) Posted by: SteveGinIL on October 23, 2006 at 1:29 AM | PERMALINKScotian: "Once this is openly shown and apologized for through actions not words then real healing will take place with some degree of rapidity. Without the repudiation until after he is gone and it will take much longer. You could say because what Bush did was so bold that the remedy must also be bold and not timid. The stain of dishonour Bush has brought onto America with his actions are some of the ugliest it has known, mild scrubbings are not going to fade them in the slightest, only strong hard scrubbing has a chance IMHO." BushCo's - NOT just Bush, but ALL of them - actions are, by the standards of the Geneva Conventions, war crimes. The International War Crimes Court will - if we do not - have the power to indict and try them all as war criminals. That court does not act, if the home nation of the criminal(s) acts on its own. Bush, et al., are all SO indictable, so the U.S. must act or have the IWCC do it for us. IF we act on our own, we will recover SOME of the standing we formerly had. If we wait for the IWCC to act, we will have lost even more standing. They are criminals. ALL of them. Impeachment can only affect Bush and Cheney. Rumsfeld, Rice, Gonzales and all the neocons need to be included, just as the other functionaries and plotters were called to answer before the Nuremburg Court, along with Bush and Cheney. Many of the Nazis were hung. Nothing much short of that would serve the world or the country well enough. They have the blood of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis on their hands, plus how many maimed for life?, plus the destruction of the Iraqi infrastructure and so many, many homes, plus torture, plus disappearances, plus the deaths of young American men and women. Life at hard labor would be fitting; most of the world would see hanging as barbaric - not the kind of thing we want to do when we are trying to recover our honor. Posted by: SteveGinIL on October 23, 2006 at 1:59 AM | PERMALINK"The water won't clear up 'til we get the hogs out of the creek." -- Jim Hightower On 16 September 1985, when the Commerce Department announced that the United States had become a debtor nation, the American Empire died. - Gore Vidal 'In the post-carbon age, growth will be anathema. We can start with population. The United States is already the third most populous nation in the world behind India and China, both of which have long since understood that infinite population growth is the road to the poor house. Three hundred million Americans, which is more or less our present size, are already using oil at a rate that cannot be sustained. The American Dream is a petroleum dream, a high-energy dream, an oil dream, a gas dream, an electric dream and, of course, a carbon dioxide nightmare. " - Life in a Post-Carbon World/Nicholas von Hoffman "In the lead-up to the Iraq war and its later conduct, I saw, at a minimum, true dereliction, negligence, and irresponsibility; at worst, lying, incompetence, and corruption," Retired Marine Gen. Anthony C. Zinni "[T]he precedents of past leading world economic powers show that blind faith and religious excesses -- the rapture seems to be both -- have often contributed to national decline, sometimes even being in its forefront." - Kevin Phillips Posted by: CFShep on October 23, 2006 at 9:28 AM | PERMALINK
really? 1991 invasion: 400,000 troops 2003 invasion: 150,000 troops some threat huh... (and rummy had to be talked into the 150k..he originally wanted only 50k)
"George W. Bush and his puppeteers squandered our reputation and our advantages. What they didn't waste, they stole. We're not getting it back." And perhaps the end result will be a good thing. American "exceptionalism" has been bad for our country for quite a while. If we can learn to see ourselves as one among many, rather than one atop many, perhaps we can learn to live with others rather than expecting them to become like us. Perhaps our sports fans will stop chanting "USA, USA" at every international event. Perhaps our students will learn to speak second and third languages and thus be able to actually participate in the global economy that's the new reality. digital surveillance cameras ab digital surveillance cameras http://digital-surveillance-cameras.blogspot.com generic tylenol generic tylenol Discount pharmacy UK: discount viagra discount viagra generic viagra generic viagra buy viagra buy viagra order viagra order viagra cheap viagra cheap viagra discount levitra discount levitra generic levitra generic levitra buy levitra buy levitra order levitra order levitra cheap levitra cheap levitra discount cialis discount cialis generic cialis generic cialis buy cialis buy cialis order cialis order cialis cheap cialis cheap cialis mens health pills mens health pills adult DVD rental adult DVD rental adult DVD adult DVD Wholesale adult dvd wholesale adult dvd adult DVD rentals adult DVD rentals adult sex movies adult sex movies adult video adult video adult DVD movies adult DVD movies adult DVD empire adult DVD empire adult video and dvd adult video and dvd cheap adult DVD cheap adult DVD adult porn DVD adult porn DVD adult DVD download adult DVD download adult xxx DVD adult xxx DVD rent adult DVD rent adult DVD online adult DVD rental online adult DVD rental adult DVD now adult DVD now Prescription drugs online prescription drugs online Prescription drugs prescription drugs Drug prescription drug prescription drug online prescription drug online prescription drugs store drugs store Drugs online drugs online Discount prescription drugs Discount prescription drugs Discounted prescription drugs Discounted prescription drugs Prescription drugs discount prescription drugs discount Cheap prescription drugs Cheap prescription drugs Prescription drugs prescription drugs Discount drugs Discount drugs Drugs store Drugs store Adult dating personals Adult dating personals personal adult dating personal adult dating dating personals dating personals Adult dating Adult dating Adult personals Adult personals Adult dating personal Adult dating personal Adult dating services Adult dating services Adult dating online Adult dating online Adult dating Adult dating Online adult dating Online adult dating dating online dating online Online dating Online dating Adult dating services online Adult dating services online online dating service Online dating service Adult dating site Adult dating site Adult sex dating Adult sex dating Adult dating service Adult dating service Adult dating online Adult dating online internet portal internet portal internet search engine internet search engine online portal online portal seek and find seek and find pay per click search engine pay per click search engine ppc search engine ppc search engine internet dating internet dating free internet dating free internet dating online dating online dating free online dating free online dating singles online singles online free match free match singles club singles club online dating site online dating site diskont apothek diskont apothek duscount pharmacy discount pharmacy Posted by: discount sex toys on October 25, 2006 at 1:43 AM | PERMALINK 
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