Crimespeak! Doubleplusungood!

CLICK THE LINK. ALWAYS CLICK THE LINK. The White House said Al-Jazeera had mistranslated what Fernandez said.

Link

"Responding to Fernandez's comments over the weekend, before the apology, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters "He (Fernandez) says he has been misquoted. I asked if he thought it was lost in translation and he said, 'That's my take.' ""

"Additionally, a senior Bush administration official earlier said, "I can only assume his remarks must have been mistranslated. Those comments obviously don't reflect our policy.""

Al-Jazeera screwed up on the translation. It was probably a deliberate attempt by Al-Jazeera to lie to the American people what Fernandez said because they want to embarrass Bush right before the elections.

What translation? From Spanish?? We have, IIRC, only one official at State whose Arabic is good enough to go on Al-Jazeera. And it isn't this guy. If Al-Jazeera translated him to Arabic and mistranslated him back into English, well, what did he say originally?!

Yes, he had said "lollypops and ponies", but those bastards at Al Jazeera...

(I wonder if a news organization like Al Jazeera might have it all on tape?)

Al:

"That's my take" isn't an explanation -- it's an opinion.

Bob

yes, it was a translation error. Fernandez actually said, "there is a strong possibility history will show the United States displayed "foresight and resolution" in its handling of the Iraq war."

We can hardly expect senior State Departmetn diplomats to know that that foresight translates into Arabic as "arrogance" and "resolution" translates as stupidity. For example, one pithy Arabic proverb translates roughly as "The wise man alienates his friends and makes enemies freely. His resolution paves the path to hell."

And speaking of gaffes, so Bush now says he never said we would "stay the course?"

Al --

If you are going yo click the link, then you need to read it.

The State Dept. official agrees he was NOT misquoted, just offcering an opinion of how the US might be viewed in the future.

Trouble is, by speaking it, he brings the opinion into the present. Nice work.

And, hey, Al, since when did the State Dept. get to be so incompetent in translation. Seems like you are more than willing to accept the translation of your choice when president Ahmadinejad is talking.

My son is fluent in Arabic and watched the Al Jazeera feed live. He said it the way it was originally reported. Out of context my ass. Here is a link to analysis of the remarks by Fernanzez.

Alberto Fernandez is fluent in Arabic. You have been mislead, Andrew J. Lazarus. I'll stake out territory on this debate (until I go to bed anyway) because I was a full 12 hours ahead of Josh Marshall on this one.

Well, G'night. I'll check the threads tomorrow.

Oh - and I don't think it was a gaffe. I think it was calculated. I don't believe this guy is stupid enough to slip up like that accidentally.

Our policy has gone so far off the rails that even serving generals and diplomats are willing to admit it on record. The senior folks are dedicated to getting things right, solving problems, and we are so deep in it now that person after person is crying out.

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Al-Jazeera screwed up on the translation. It was probably a deliberate attempt by Al-Jazeera to lie to the American people what Fernandez said because they want to embarrass Bush right before the elections.

Um, no. NPR seperately translated the remarks, and, gee whiz, Fernandez said exactly that. I did think he was going to backpedal.

As Kevin said:
"A gaffe is when a politician accidentally tells the truth"?

al: Al-Jazeera screwed up on the translation.

much like that german reporter did for president bush here:

When asked about his high point since becoming president Bush replied:

"I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5 pound perch in my lake." - 5/7/06

turns out it was a bass instead...

Here is what needs to be uppermost in the minds of those opposing Bush: When Iraq goes supernova it will be accepted by a majority of the U.S. public the fault lies with Democrats, the media, gays, feminists, academics, atheists and Hollywood. 2008 will see a campaign run on the premise it is more important than ever Republicans keep the presidency and are returned to power in Congress. It will be successfully alleged a coalition of the above mentioned groups will destroy whatever chances remain to defeat terrorists, just as they lost Iraq. File this away, it will happen.
````````````````````````````````````````````````
You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Abraham Lincoln
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Republicans will settle for "all of the people some of the time" if some of the time is Election Day 2008.

That Al-Bot is one heckuva code.

History will show that the U.S. resorted to raw imperialism and barbarism when a petulant, immature asshole seized power in the 2000 election after having received less votes and began acting out his unrequited, infantile Oedipal fantasies.

George W. Bush = The American Caligula

What he really meant was, "history will show the Bush administration displayed incredible, unprecedented arrogance and monumental stupidity in its handling of the Iraq war and everything else it touches."

Viet-Nam as brought to us by the men and women described as the "best and the brightest".

Iraq has been brought to us by the "worst and the stupidest".

The BBC made the same translation. It must be a conspiracy, Al you willfully ignorant slut.

Cheers,

Alan Tomlinson

This is a clasic "gaffe." Much like the man who meant to ask his wife to pass the pepper, but accidentally said "You ruined the best years of my life, you f#$@incg b*tch!"

Happens all the time.

Al's a traitor!!! Think about it - you can't spell Al Jazeera or Al Qaeda without A-L.

And yet, my personal favorite, as previously mentioned by another, is Bush's new dismissal of his STAY THE COURSE rant for the past months! I'd love to get a close up look at the interior of HIS BUBBLE...and, how have I managed to stay MARK STEYN free? Is he the sober man's Hitchins??? YEUW!!!!

A gaffe is never a gaffe until your Emporer tells you it is and a career ender to boot.

Who the hell cares what Kinsley has to say.

Michael Kinsley's last column sure did employ the old Karl Rove trick of projection-ism.

Poor Dennis Hastert is suspected, probably falsely, of being willing to sacrifice a child for the good of his party, and now the other party reaps the benefit. Do you think that if the devil told Nancy Pelosi she could undo the scandal, save these 17-year-olds from the trauma of e-mail from a sicko congressman, and give up her hopes of being speaker, that she would find such an offer tempting? I don't. And I don't think Nancy Pelosi is callous or cruel. If she thought it through, she might conclude that the good that can come from a Democratic Congress exceeds the evil that a few randy e-mails may have done to a few teenage pages. Meanwhile, most Americans, I strongly suspect, would happily sacrifice a few more pages just to keep the story going for entertainment purposes.

In other word, Hastert is an innocent no-knowing that has no right to say the "Buck stops here" because he is innocently out-to-the-loop. Sorry, I don't buy that.

But Nancy Pelosi is an evil Dem politician who wished MORE pages were harrassed.

I've got to say to Kinsley that I think those Repug white evangelicals and Karl Rove can handled this projection-ism ALL without Kinsley's nasty two-cents worth.

Frankly, I'm sure Hastert knew full well about this sexual harassment issue with regard to Foley, and second of all, I’m sure that Nancy would never have allowed sexual harassment in her own ranks.

It seems Kinsley would sell his own soul if he could just be loved by this administration, just like way Judith Miller got everything - and Kinsley got nothing.

It's like that one column that Kinsley wrote saying that Lieberman and McCain were two most "honest" politicans, when frankly, they appear to be the two most dishonest politicans.

Kinsley is lot like Broder and Friedman, but without all the TV appearences. Poor Kinsley, if only he could get some face time on TV. It's been so long since Kinsley wrote anything meanful, I doubt if Kinsley even knows how to write a great column anymore.

"This is a clasic "gaffe." Much like the man who meant to ask his wife to pass the pepper, but accidentally said "You ruined the best years of my life, you f#$@incg b*tch!""

Is "gaffe", French?

I am surprised it took 24 hours for his political bosses to turn him. I am waiting to see what the appropriate punishment will be. Perhaps nothing, since he disgraced himself by issuing a recantation. If Fernandez stuck by his comments, then reprisal would have been on a Wilson/Plame scale.

This diplomat said something that was not diplomatic. What he said was both true and wrong.

Wrong because it makes the US look bad, but also wrong because it's virtually an oxymoron. It takes arrogance to have operations far from home. Then the lack of familiarity means that one is stupid about local conditions. Every organization that conducts operations far from home will display arrogance and stupidity.

The US displayed arrogance and stupidity in WW1 and WW2. Al Qaeda displays arrogance and stupidity daily, as do the various insurgent groups in Iraq. The UN's humanitarian operations are full of arrogance and stupity. Private do-good groups are as well, although none of them can match the UN in these two respects.

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ex-liberal:

But what's fundamentally different here is the *scale* of arrogance and stupidity.

Comparing the arrogance and stupidity of the Iraq war to the arrogance and stupidity of a well-meaning but failed mission like Somalia is like comparing the Trinity plutonium weapon test to a firecracker.

Bob

Cheryl,

I'm with Kinsley. Why didn't Pelosi use her magic wand to undo the congressional page molesting?

And thanks Kevin for your quote attributing great wisdom to Kinsley. It would greatly improve your blog if you quoted him in every post.

Can't say this enough: 'Fewer' is number; 'less' is quantity.

Correct: Janie complained that she got less jam than John.

Incorrecct: 'having received less votes'

Agree with sentiments expressed however.

I'm the reason your Albertson's Express line has a sign reading '10 Items or Fewer'.

Comparing the arrogance and stupidity of the Iraq war to the arrogance and stupidity of a well-meaning but failed mission like Somalia is like comparing the Trinity plutonium weapon test to a firecracker.

Bob

Or comparing advocates of population control to Hiler era eugenics crackpots?

"This diplomat said something that was not diplomatic. What he said was both true and wrong."

Actually it might have been diplomatic if it were a preliminary effort to negotiate with various insurgent groups who are currently pummelling our troops and any Iraqis brave enough to defy sectarian and militia pressures and fight for the elected Iraqi government.

No doubt you would prefer to hear the namby-pamby passive voice from him--mistakes were made. Somehow mistakes made themselves apart from the volition of any human beings. (OT That works against creationism, doesn't it?) Perhaps he thought that the insurgents creating violent chaos in Iraq wouldn't admire a tone of "goodness gracious however did I end up in this smashed up car with an alcohol blood level of .25 and a dozen dead people on the hood? Well, let's work together to bury the bodies and just move on to the carwash. History will decide what my legacy will be."

CFShep:

Population control is a slippery slope just as is eugenics.

And since eugenics is a form of population control ...

Cyn, I laid this out clearly in the other thread. You can't advocate population control (beyond advocating for family planning and birth control which I think most sane people support) without bringing in questions with eugenic implications. If the smart, well-educated people aren't breeding as fast as the less educated and less smart -- anything that attempts to redress that balance is a eugenics argument.

Bob

My wife sent me and my daughter to the store with a shopping list. I had my daughter read the list out loud as I grabbed the items and put them in the cart.

We came home with 'milk', but my wife informed me I was supposed to buy 'ilkm'.

Damn translator.

Kevin's post reveals what liberals already know:

"It's only true if it insults George W Bush!"

Did it ever occur to anyone that an incompetent rascal from the Bush-hating State Department spoke out of turn and told a tale out of school that turned out not to be true? Of course not! You're all about the demonization of good people in the name of your craven power grab. This election season is all about a devious Democratic minority seizing as much power as possible so they can abandon the Middle East, raise taxes, deliver Cadillacs to women on welfare and give condoms to grade school children.

And you wonder why no one votes for you.

The bloody twit named rmck1:

You can't advocate population control (beyond advocating for family planning and birth control which I think most sane people support) without bringing in questions with eugenic implications.

Eugenics? What century are you living in? What insanity are you issuing forth with?

Is there a single human being alive who even uses the word "eugenics" in order to enter into discourse with another human being? Next you'll tell us that we can't put helmets on bicycle riders because that will throw the science of reading the bumps on peoples' heads (which is phrenology) off. Then you'll say that rhabdomancy should not be practiced, lest we offend the aquifer.

And you wonder why you're the biggest moron I've met.

It looks like Fernandez is ready to exit the government job for a book deal.

How many "Bush is evil" books will liberals buy? I think I am going to write one to take some kook money myself.

Alberto Fernandez has appeared on Al-Jazeera many times, and has been an effective voice of rational U.S. policy in the Middle East (even if it appears we do not seem to have one). He is fluent in Arablic; for a full review of what he actually said, plus the additional context in which he describes the role the Arab World needs to take, go here:

http://abuaardvark.typepad.com/abuaardvark/2006/10/the_fernandez_p.html

Marc Lynch, who hosts the blog site, http://abuaardvark.typepad.com/abuaardvark/ , is one of the most authortative experts on the Middle East, along with his colleague, Juan Cole, who hosts the website, Informed Comment,
http://www.juancole.com

"And you wonder why you're the biggest moron I've met."

Posted by: Norman Rogers on October 23, 2006 at 11:20 AM

No, he doesn't wonder this, nor does anyone else outside of the Trolletariat, Norman old chap. We all already know who the biggest moron you have ever met is, that being yourself whenever you look in the mirror. If you are going to make clumsy attacks like this, at least try and make them semi-plausible, otherwise you look even more foolish than your usual asinine self. Which does take some doing given just how absolutely moronic you manage to appear on a daily basis despite your ability to write in complete sentences and paragraphs unlike many of your comrades here.

How many "Bush is evil" books will liberals buy?

The better question is how many more dozens of former Bush staff will continue writing these books.

Oh and Norman, parody or not, STFU. It's getting old.

Actually, I'm with ex-liberal, in the sense that any large undertaking will probably involve a certain amount of arrogance and stupidity. In that sense, what Fernandez said was simply a polite expression of contrition for whatever elements of the US's behavior and policies may have hurt and angered people, which is a smart and rather uncontroversial thing to say to one's audience. It shouldn't be an embarrassing thing to say, and isn't even a general apology for or condemnation of the war or of the US's execution of it. It's simple good manners. The US should be saying things like this more often.

What Fernandez's forced apology points out, however, is that American government officials are so tightly constrained by the terms of political debate back home, within the American mediasphere, that they are unable even to speak sensibly or politely to foreign interlocutors, for fear of saying something which might embarrass the Administration in the eyes of the home audience. This problem is exacerbated by the unwillingness of this Administration ever to admit any error to an American audience. Because it views any admission of error as a political mistake within the US media game, its emissaries abroad are unable to acknowledge any wrongdoing, or issue even the mildest and most general of polite apologies, even in conversations with audiences who feel that they have been directly wronged and harmed by the US.

This is why everybody in the world thinks we're such assholes.

Bob and CFShep, to say that things are going badly in Iraq is one thing. To see it as the greatest disaster in the history of war is just grandiousity. Here's a quote from historian Victor David Hansen:

The odd thing is that, for all the gloom and furor, and real blunders, nevertheless, by the historical standards of most wars, we have done well enough to win in Iraq, and still have a good shot of doing the impossible in seeing this government survive. More importantly still, worldwide we are beating the Islamic fundamentalists and their autocratic supporters. Iranian-style theocracy has not spread. For all the talk of losing Afghanistan, the Taliban are still dispersed or in hiding — so is al Qaeda. Europe is galvanizing against Islamism in a way unimaginable just three years ago. The world is finally focusing on Iran. Hezbollah did not win the last war, but lost both prestige and billions of dollars in infrastructure, despite a lackluster effort by Israel. Elections have embarrassed a Hamas that, the global community sees, destroys most of what it touches and now must publicly confess that it will never recognize Israel. Countries like Libya are turning, and Syria is more isolated. If we keep the pressure up in Iraq and Afghanistan and work with our allies, Islamism and its facilitators will be proven bankrupt.

Orwell:

How many "Bush is evil" books will liberals buy? I think I am going to write one to take some kook money myself.

That's not a bad strategy. I, myself, have long wondered if I would ever have the time to write my expose on liberalism and how it relates to the destruction of capitalism. I could do it as a children's book: "Mommy, the liberals raised taxes and ruined my entire investment portfolio."

But what you discover is, the fools have no money. They rarely have jobs that carry them through the year, they keep waiting for a handout and they won't do an honest day's work to save their lives. Many of them wear the same clothes they wore in high school because they think it makes them look "cool" when, in fact, it makes them look "childish and immature."

In short, how can you take money from people that don't have it? And when they do steal some money from an honest man, they usually buy drugs or bad movies with it.

ckelly:

What is this about a parody? Is this your way of saying that someone who thinks differently from you MUST be a parody? Ha! That's the best line of the day!

My profound apologies--this is, after all, merely an echo chamber for hollow-headed fools.

It seems that Fernandez' "explanation" of what he really meant to say is "we weren't stupid and arrogant, but everyone else is going to think so in the future." Is that really an improvement?

Can we agree that Bush's Folly is the biggest cock-up of western foreign policy toward the middle east since Suez? There is a starting point.

"How many "Bush is evil" books will liberals buy? I think I am going to write one to take some kook money myself."

Be our guest. The subject has not yet been covered completely, because Bush is still president. Plus I'm sure that within the next fifty years there will be sets of memoirs coming out that will set our hair on end.

I look forward to the "Bush was good" books too. The reader will be able to finish one in the time it takes to steep a cup of tea.

Here's a quote from historian Victor David Hansen:

And here is a quote from a scholar who merits equal respect, Sesame Street's Grover.

Game-Show Host Muppet: And now, with everybody blindfolded, it's time to play "What's On the Table"? Your first clue: it is...red!

Grover: I know! A cow! It's gotta be a cow!

It won't be long before "grasping at straws" will be replaced in common parlance by "trying to defend Bush." We can thank ex-liberal, Al, Norman, and American Hawk-up for this linguitic revolution.

Speaker of the Missouri House in Platte County about two weeks ago:

Jetton thanked the Republican faithful for turning out. "Democrats don't have a problem during the day because they don't have jobs," Jetton said, according to Kansas City media reports. "Republicans work. It's a little harder for them."

The audacity of these pricks is just stupefying.

Global Citizen: Can we agree that Bush's Folly is the biggest cock-up of western foreign policy toward the middle east since Suez?

Heavens, no. The US is actually better off now than we were when Saddam was in power, because today's Iraq will not develop nukes. Saddam, OTOH, came close twice.

The biggest cock-up in the middle east in the last 50 years was Jimmy Carter allowing the Shah to be replaced by the Mullahs. The Shah was a selfish tyrant. But, the Mullahs are far, far worse, both internally and externally.

They rarely have jobs that carry them through the year, they keep waiting for a handout and they won't do an honest day's work to save their lives. Many of them wear the same clothes they wore in high school because they think it makes them look "cool" when, in fact, it makes them look "childish and immature."

As if we needed any more evidence of Normie's inane posturing. WTF are you talking about? Did you forget to take your meds, or did you take too many?

foe of David Brooks:

And here is a quote from a scholar who merits equal respect, Sesame Street's Grover.

Did it occur to you that Grover is a philosopher, not a scholar? I did not think so. Please apologize immediately and in a substantive way.

Scrotum:

Which does take some doing given just how absolutely moronic you manage to appear on a daily basis despite your ability to write in complete sentences and paragraphs unlike many of your comrades here.

That's the real problem, isn't it? Despite the fact that I have a profoundly correct take on events (which are decidedly different from the liberal take on things), you wish me harm and you wish to censor me. As you well know, one cannot escape the echo chamber of many of the sites on the conservative side of the aisle--they are not fertile hunting ground for wild-eyed liberals. No, I must travel onto sites like this that are, and I shudder to admit this, more honest in their acceptance of dissenting opinions.

Thank you for the wonderful compliment. Now, scoot. I have liberals to smash. I have the right ideas to share so that unsuspecting moderates can be brought back from the abyss of liberalism.

*That is, if it's okay with the many self-appointed traffic cops that are starting to ruin old Drum's delightful blog.

brooksfoe Just the dunderheads in charge.
Sky-ho Dictionary.com
gaffe faux pas
"social error" old French

brooksfoe:

Thanks. Rebutting ex-liberal is like debugging spaghetti code. You go in there thinking all you need to do is edit one line -- and you wind up having to re-do the entire syntax, so by the time you're finished, you may as well have written a new program from scratch.

How do you rebut a guy who believes that Osama's directly equatable to Hitler?

Answer = you can't. It's almost enough to make one nostalgic for the notion of re-education camps.

Bob

The biggest cock-up in the middle east in the last 50 years was Jimmy Carter allowing the Shah to be replaced by the Mullahs.

Don't blame Carter for that. You have to go back to John Foster Dulles and the coup to overthrow Mossadegh, long before Carter. All because the Brits had to have their god-damned oil company back. A servant does not affront his lord and master so.

Don't play this blame Carter bullshit with me. I'm not clueless about the region.

As to "better off without Saddam" just how the fuck do you figure? He was contained by no-fly zones and a power vacuum in the country hadn't occured, resulting in at minimum a quarter-million additional deaths of Iraqi's. (Remember he was so bad for having killed 300K in 23 years? Piker.)

I'm afraid you will have to back up your assertions with me. Just throwing it out there isn't good enough.

ex-liberal:

Very clever of Jimmy Carter to have implanted that cancer in the Shah, just at the decisive political moment ...

Bob

ex-liberal:

Jimmy Carter extended a diplomatic courtesy to our ally in Iran by inviting him to the US for state-of-the-art cancer treatment. He did it as a gesture of *support* for the Shah -- and this is in large measure why the Iranian students went apeshit at America and occupied our embassy.

Carter may have fucked up in any number of ways -- but hardly by extending support to the Khomeneists.

Bob

I had a thought about the Shah, and how his situation was nobody's fault but his own despite what the hate America first and foremost crowd thinks, but then I remembered that I cannot post here without clearing it with the thought police.

Pretty please, may I make a point in this discussion? Do I need to have it approved by a rules committee before I submit it? Do I need to send a copy in triplicate to the Political Animal ruling Politburo for consideration? Do I need to tap twice on my special bell before speaking up or do I have to signal my intentions by waving my arm in the air? When I buzz in, should I be succinct or can I just ramble on like an blithering idiot, since that's what passes for commentary around here?

Can I be so privileged to post here? Pretty, pretty please with sugar on top? Can I be a part of your world, or must I remain cut off from the brilliance and the wisdom for all time?

And you wonder why these threads are unreadable. The two best things on them are me and the Chinese spam, you know. The rest of you are staggering along without a clue.

Enjoy the echo chamber, you fools.

Norman:

My, we're in an awful nihilistic mood today, aren't we.

You're reminding me of Patrick Bateman from American Psycho, sitting in his office in a petulant and peevish state of mind because he spent all morning listening to death metal on his personal stereo :)

Bob

State Department diplomat AND former cia interrogator. master of waterboarding, what's the fuck this guy doing there. strange days indeed.

Do I need to tap twice on my special bell before speaking up

No. Rapping twice on your special bell is the signal for the nurse to bring you more thorazine. To speak up, just raise your hand and Ms. Gonzales will call on you, as soon as the anger workshop member currently speaking is done.

brooksfoe:

You're on a roll today, bro :)

Bob

And you wonder why these threads are unreadable.

Ummm no, I don't wonder. Mission Accomplished, Normie.

The two best things on them are me and the Chinese spam, you know.

There's a difference?

The two best things on them are me and the Chinese spam, you know.

As with our President, he may just be right, but not in the way he means it. I think.

ckelly:

You get a feeling that his toilet seat is shaped like an elegantly-filigreed picture frame :)

Bob

Normie,

Marion Crane wants some room service in #1.

ckelly
Chinese spam is coherent thought in a different language. Incomprehensible.
There's a difference between spurious unsolicited comment and that which is volunteered drivel intended to disrupt.
You're right. It is confusing.

Paul - I didn't find the Pig War you referenced. I found a Serbian pork embargo in 1906 Austria.

Wonder how many "gaffes" are being articulated by Abramhoff as he sits at the FBI provided desk for four hours each day "chatting"? DC is starting to get the tremors, perhaps building into a "Don't blame it on Mame" moment.

Global - Google The Pig War - third item down is the Wikipedia article.

Must learn how to cut and paste, or whatever.

Just got rid of our 45 player - Bought a brand new 78 - Moving on up. Now to trade in our LaSalle.

All that commentary, nothing refuted. The subject is on "gaffes" and no one recalls what happened to any diplomat who dard contradict Clinton. No one dares bring up anything of the sort. Heavens, no! This is an echo chamber!

Yes, the echo chamber works well today.

How's this for a gaffe:

Why won't John Kerry won't surrender his nearly $9 million dollars in money from the 2004 campaign to the Dumbocrat Party? Is it because he needs it, being rich and all? Is it because he wants to see Dumbocrats lose so he can remain at the top of the food chain? Why won't he give it up? Oh, that's right--the likes of you would spend it on high-priced writers to come up with better insults for your uncle Norman.

Hating George W Bush isn't going to deliver the government to you, you know. And even if it did, how would you govern? No one has a clue how they would actually govern because the notion of working with George W Bush is anathema to you. Don't deny it! And yet, if you somehow seize the House or the Senate, and I do not believe you will, how are you going to like it when practical and sensible Dumbocrats (of which, there are about three) start working with the President to get things done? What screaming, unhinged insults will you hurl at your own when they "betray" you by governing responsibly?

Perish the thought! And hang on to that cash!

I think a 16% approval rating for congress and 68% of Americans saying they do not trust the president or the congress and stating flatly that the executive needs to be checked, and 58% openly opposing the war in Iraq are the things that will deliver the congress. Hating Bush is just a pastime at this point. Fun to do, but no longer necessary for cohesion.

Betcha that Grover knows a lot more about Alcibiades too.

I can understand apologizing for the bluntness, but I don't see anything wrong with saying what he did. We are often arogant and we have done stupid things (that's part of the nature of Government); nothing wrong with admitting that. It's kind of refreshing.

Norman:

Hillary and Kerry have both donated million-plus chunks of their campaign nuts to various candidates and committees and have throughout the cycle. All candidates in safe races are being encouraged to give it up; this is fairly routine among the fundraising committees in any given election cycle.

Bottom line is, our fundraising numbers are in and they're a pleasant surprise. Only because the targeting is *broadening* in the final weeks (which almost never happens; the historical trend is for races to narrow and Democratic targeting opportunities to decrease) do we have a lot more places where we could throw around some cash.

That's a stark opportunity nobody anticipated, which you're trying to spin as evidence of Democratic penury.

Well -- I mean -- duh :)

Bob

I neither believe in nor rely on any polls!
"What's that Karl, we have to fly to Bob Jones University immediately and then on to Dayton? Tomorrow we have to do how many states?"

Why won't John Kerry won't surrender his nearly $9 million dollars in money from the 2004 campaign to the Dumbocrat Party?

The real question is, why won't Linda Tripp tell us whether Monica admitted there was a dress on the tapes? What's that? Wrong decade? Oh. Ummm...Kerry is rich! No? Dean is squeaky? No? Hillary is a les...? Not working? Pelosi? Chardonnay? "Who cares?" Wait! Foley cyberschtupps boys!

Yes, I know he's on our side. But the other side doesn't have any good targets...!

The non-starter named rmck1 who is, in fact, a twit:

Bottom line is, our fundraising numbers are in and they're a pleasant surprise.

Bwah hah hah hah!

And that's why you're having to borrow money?

The fact of the matter is, old John and old Billary are sitting on millions while you have your hand out. In a party with discipline, those millions would already be slotted for media buys in key markets to put you over the top. You precisely missed the point, as usual: why didn't Kerry spend just one million dollars getting out the vote in Ohio? Would we even have to have this discussion? Bah!

If you're not going to win it all now, when are you going to win anything? This is your golden opportunity, and you're blowing it. And you wonder why I cannot contain myself. You're sitting there, complacent, letting these people have a pass. Meanwhile, the prospects for the Republican Party get better each and every day because you have members of your own party flush with millions and on the other hand you're running out of money.

Laugh if you want to, but it's all crashing down around you. The Dumbocrats peaked two and a half weeks too early.

I can hardly keep up with the goalposts, they are moving about so fast.

Here's my latest love letter from the Dumbocrat party--wonder what it says.

Oh, how timely! It's from Barack Osama I mean Obama.

Dear Norman Rogers Hates Dumbocrats,

I think it's safe to say that we've all had enough. Enough of the broken promises. Enough of the failed leadership. Enough of the can't-do, won't-do, won't-even-try style of governance.

Now is our time to make our mark on history. The Republicans have had their chance to lead -- and they have failed. We have had enough! It's time for a Democratic majority, and if all of us do not step up and do everything we can to take it, we will have only ourselves to blame.

My goal -- and your goal -- in these last weeks of the election is to make sure that the Democrats can compete financially with the Republicans' final onslaught of negative ads. My fellow Chicagoan, Rahm Emanuel, chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) told me that last week alone, the Republican counterpart, the National Republican Congressional Committee (NRCC) put in close to $10 million in negative attacks ads against Democratic House candidates. That is a staggering amount of money for our candidates to compete against.

And on and on--the bottom line being, why the need to beg for money via E-mail solicitation? Oh, that's right--you're broke. One E-mail to John Kerry and one to Billary and you would have millions to counter the effective issue-oriented ads put out by the Republicans, but because you cannot play the game, you stand to lose.

Bwah hah hah hah hah!

Hey, Dumbocrats! How do you feel knowing that you are donating five or ten hard-earned dollars to try to make a difference while Kerry and Billary have over TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS sitting in the bank, doing nothing?

Do you feel...cheated?

All those churches raised all that money through "love offerings' for the GOP only to be dismissed as "Nuts" and "Wackos" by the people they put in power, and they watched funding for their "Faith Based Initiatives" actualy decrease. Meanwhile the private jets of the "Pioneers" were gleeming in the sun on the runway in Austin, and the lords of carbobased energy were all gearing up for a big laugh at your expense.

Feeling...Cheated?

I can understand apologizing for the bluntness, but I don't see anything wrong with saying what he did. We are often arogant and we have done stupid things (that's part of the nature of Government); nothing wrong with admitting that. It's kind of refreshing.

Posted by: aaron on October 23, 2006

Aaron,

You are either with the president or you are against the president. If you are against the president he can declare you an enemy combatant and make you disappear. In this case both the diplomat and you have made comments that demonstrate a willingness to acknowledge truth. Since truth (as opposed to truthiness) is administration's enemy, both of you are subject to a visit to the ministry of love.

Isn't it obvious, the president and his advisors don't think in terms of truth or falsity. Perception is all that matters.

Norman:

If we peaked early -- why does the Democratic targeting list keep expanding?

Norman, you don't have a single fact at your disposal -- that's why your *best shot* here is to try to stir resentment between rank-and-filers and Hillary and Kerry -- as if we would somehow *expect* presidential hopefuls to financially disarm themselves. Hillary and Kerry have been fundraising nonstop for the party -- everybody knows this.

That's why you're not stirring resentment among Democrats who aren't naturally sympathetic to either Hillary or Kerry to begin with.

Only an idiot who knows jack about politics would fall for such a transparent ploy. It's like taking Karl Rove's recent bluster at face value.

Keep your game face on, Norman. We wouldn't expect you to do otherwise.

But just don't suffer the delusion that you're *fooling* anybody with it.

Bob

Hormonal Citizen:

All those churches raised all that money through "love offerings' for the GOP only to be dismissed as "Nuts" and "Wackos" by the people they put in power, and they watched funding for their "Faith Based Initiatives" actualy decrease. Meanwhile the private jets of the "Pioneers" were gleeming in the sun on the runway in Austin, and the lords of carbobased energy were all gearing up for a big laugh at your expense.

How erudite. You'd stand out from the crowd if you weren't so shrill.

But you forgot the best part: in America, there's a sucker born every minute! Bwah hah hah hah hah hah hah!

How much do you want to bet that we find a new sucker before 2008 and raise cash on the barrelhead at a faster clip than ever before? How much do you want to bet that the Dumbocrats flush good money after bad and lose seats in 2008?

Bwah hah hah hah hah hah!

(Pardon me, I just can't stop laughing!)

Le twit:

Keep your game face on, Norman. We wouldn't expect you to do otherwise.

But I thought I was a parody!

Bwah hah hah hah hah!

Oh, pardon me--should I have asked for permission before posting?

Norman

I would probably keep my laughing to myself for another couple of weeks. If you are right and the Democrats have peaked too early you can say I told you so. If you are wrong and Scaife lays you off, you can start collecting your unemployment checks.

Charlie/Al/Norman/etc., will you get one unemployment check or will you get one for each personality?

Norman:

You're a *self* parody. While I believe you're indeed a sincere Republican, about a third of the stuff that crawls off your fingers (vacationing with the governor at Club Fed, violently and repeatedly assaulting a crippled guy in a public parking deck) in my considered opinion is just pure hot air.

For somebody who pretends to be such a product of the upper crust -- you sure seem to know a lot of street lingo and common vulgarisms :)

Bob

Where did ex-liberal run off to? Questions remain unanswered, and assertions were made. Please codify your position, ex-liberal, or cede that you are just spouting potemmkin-party talking points.

Globe:

I think Norman's gone on to greener postures :)

He always becomes uneasy whenever we start to deconstruct his persona ...

Bob

What is it about me that makes them run away and hide under nannies petticoats? Must they be protected from the "shrill" reason of the hormonal redhead? quell horror!

Well, after an hour I declare victory and close the tab.

Norman, ex-liberal, better luck next time. I saved the permalinks so we can pick up right where we left off.

Ditto your skinny ass, small-brain brian. we can continue the debate you scurried away from any time you se fit to man up.

What you had to say was boring.

Here, have a sneer on me:

:\

The twit:

He always becomes uneasy whenever we start to deconstruct his persona ...

Someone who raves like a drooling maniac in public pretends to know what is inside of my head? I would spend some time checking your own head, dear boy. Time and time again, you embarrass yourself and howl like a stuck pig.

And you wonder why I can't stop laughing at you.

Norman:

No, not what's inside your head, old bean. That's fairly apparent for all to see.

The question, more properly, is whether what's inside your head correlates with objective reality :)

Bob

Still laughing, you twit, still laughing.

Did you have an answer for anything that I've posted? Of course not. Your party is in disarray and cannot find two nickels to rub together. You're so busy fighting each other for chump change and for bragging rights that you forgot the election isn't until 7 November. You started celebrating BEFORE you won anything, and now the stark reality catches in your throats--you realize, hmm, could we lose it? Could we miss by a seat or two because of a few hundred thousand dollars that didn't get spent to counter a good ad? What is the state of our GOTV apparatus? I mean, that would be a good question since the Dumbocrat GOTV has NEVER produced anything. Just ask President Kerry!

Could it all just be slipping away? Because guessing what's in my head this whole time hasn't solved your number one problem, now has it? No, you expended all of your energy fighting off your own attacks today, didn't you? Did that fellow named "obscure" prick you good? Did he get under your skin and make you scream "fuck" at the top of your lungs so that everyone in your apartment building jumped at the sound?

Bwah hah hah hah hah hah hah hah!

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I don't think Norman needs any more Cialis.

What I had to say nailed your ass to the wall. having no rebuttal you called me shrill and skulked away like a whimpering little bitch.

Norman:

Woah ... you're so desperate for relevance you have to reference a dead thread :) Well, just go back and look at it. I had the last word, which is satisfaction enough for me in an argument like that.

Norman Norman Norman ... you really *do* have exactly nothing, don't you. Let me tell you two tales about money and enthusiasm I learned at the knee of Charlie Cook, that wise old man (with his competitor and counterpart Stu Rothenberg) of non-partisan election analysis.

First, money. A lot of media markets are already saturated. For instance, the GOP wants to drop a big media buy in NJ to test Menendez's slim lead. to determine if it should make a big GOTV investment (remember, this was considered their best chance to pick off a Democratic Senate seat). Well -- there may be no more media to buy. NJ has no media market of its own; it shares with NYC and Philadelphia -- and there are hot races in both those areas. Money will buy you a chance -- but ultimately, it is no vouchsafe in itself. The Dems are competitive enough cash-wise to do what we need to do; everything else is, as they say, gravy.

Secondly (and more importantly), Cook said something very interesting about the GOP's vaunted 72-Hour Project. That what worked in '04 with a weak Democratic opponent and a hard core of unstinting Bush support may not work in an entirely new environment, where the trends are reversed. Now Cook -- without wanting to say anything too terribly partisan to his audience -- understands the exasperation that Schumer and Emmanuel felt at Dean's unconventional 50-state strategy (who needs full-time DNC organizers in Alabama?) and concedes that the Democrats have a worthy and competitive but not stellar GOTV program; that in fact, they have less of one this cycle than in '04. BUT -- he also said this: Given high enthusiasm and a mediocre GOTV machine vs a demoralized party and an excellent GOTV machine -- Charlie Cook will take the former *every single time*.

I suppose you'll try to run down the studiously non-partisan Charlie Cook by calling him a shill for the Democrats. Heh :)

The 72-Hour Project worked with a cadre of local activists who know the communities they'll be walking and calling, who have a high degree of personal enthusiasm for the team. The Democrats in '04 had a bunch of hourly wage workers with a limp biscuit at the top of the ticket (no activist Dem I can recall had any real enthusiasm for John Forbes Kerry). But these things are now reversed: It is *Democrats* and those angered at the GOP establishment for a whole host of reasons across the ideological spectrum who are charged up and rarin' to vote. It is the Republicans who have to fish for competent drones willing to work for $10/hr, going through the motions to earn a paycheck. Search your soul, Norman. Do you know *any* Republicans who are charged with enough enthusiasm to volunteer for the team? Some, sure. But a fraction of the number they had in '04 when "Stay the Course" was a viable mantra ...

Sorry, Norman. The stars are not aligned for you this cycle. Charlie Brown will kick his own damn football this time, and Lucy can go play in traffic.

Bob

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Norman, Globe kicks your ass and you run away like a shiny little bitch. Every thread, you disappear when she show up becuase you are no match for the bitch. You have no substance. It is easy for a savvy woman like Globe to just beat you bloody. Without setting down her wineglass.

Sneering at you, fuckstick. :\

I'm telling you, the Chinese spam has more substance than any liberal I see here.

Norman, Globe kicks your ass and you run away like a shiny little bitch. Every thread, you disappear when she show up becuase you are no match for the bitch. You have no substance. It is easy for a savvy woman like Globe to just beat you bloody. Without setting down her wineglass.

In your dreams, dingbat.

Her substantive post is this:

All those churches raised all that money through "love offerings' for the GOP only to be dismissed as "Nuts" and "Wackos" by the people they put in power, and they watched funding for their "Faith Based Initiatives" actualy decrease. Meanwhile the private jets of the "Pioneers" were gleeming in the sun on the runway in Austin, and the lords of carbobased energy were all gearing up for a big laugh at your expense.

Feeling...Cheated?

And this little diatribe means what, exactly? That the Republican Party took money from rubes and cashed it in at the ballot box? Certainly. America is full of rubes who will pay to rub shoulders with greatness. The sad thing is, you liberals do it, too. It's called "Hollywood" and you will see the limosine liberals line up to rub shoulders with Warren Beatty, Alec Baldwin and that Screech fellow. They'll spend ridiculous amounts of money for the same access and connection and face time that the Republicans do and they'll splash you with their limosine as they roll through the crappy part of town where you live.

And you think there's a tinker's damn bit of difference between them? Well, take five dollars down to Washington D.C. and ask to speak with, oh, I don't know--any member of Congress. Say, here's a fiver--how much access does this get me?

After security breaks both your arms, think about this: you mean nothing to these people. They take their piece of largesse and then they proceed to shit on you, regardless of their stripes. Why? Because politics is an incumbents game, and despite the fact that you have a low regard for them, you'll likely vote to send the same fool back to Washington D.C. to do your bidding, which is, to do nothing at all because your apathy is what rules the day. Your apathy is king, and apathy lets a fool remain in power.

Vote for Ned Lamont, you say! Yes, vote for the multimillionaire who won't remember who you are if he wins and he'll blame you for being unhinged and dirty fringe maniacs if he loses.

There is no Mr. Smith, he never goes to Washington, and you can't simply proclaim yourself the winner in a debate where you phone it in and accomplish nothing.

And you wonder why you can't win--especially when, after all is said and done, you don't vote.

Norman:

Woah ... that's cynical enough to approach genuine nihilism.

No comment on my summary of Charlie Cook's GOTV analysis, I see.

Heh. I wonder why :)

Bob

What I had to say nailed your ass to the wall. having no rebuttal you called me shrill and skulked away like a whimpering little bitch.

Bwah hah hah hah hah hah!

Well, I apologize for having a life and taking the time to enjoy the finer things in life, but I really must take exception with the notion that you "won" anything when even your friend the twit couldn't come up with anything other than bleating about Charlie Cook. Hmm, didn't Charlie tell us Kerry would be President? Or did he say it would be...close? I forget.

Two dingbats--Hormonal Citizen and Joylessly Smurfette--think they've landed a punch on the Great Norman Rogers? If the world were made of cheese, you two mice would bump into each other and go hungry, that's how silly you both are. Have either of you accomplished anything today? And please spare us your sob stories and your endless trumpeting of how wonderful you are for doing your job in the medical profession. Plenty of Americans do their jobs and you don't hear them getting on Kevin Drum's blog to bleat about it so they can imagine themselves being in a morally superior position to tell people off

Between you, is there even one shaven armpit? My goodness. Run along now, and howl into the wind about your shopping carts full of plastic bags. Yes the ones that rolled away when you were crapping outdoors, "...ladies..." and I use the term, er, loosely.

No comment on my summary of Charlie Cook's GOTV analysis, I see.

Hmm, unhinged dirty hippie liberals don't vote? Does that satisfy your jones?

The fact of the matter is, the American people really have a silent majority that puts you people back into your little hole when these types of elections come around, and what invariably happens is that, by and large, you lose by comfortable margins and claim it was all a set-up. But where were you on election day?

Stoned, in the gutter, playing the ukelele and waiting for a handout from the government.

Bah!

President Kerry sure is glad you were there to put him over the top!

General:

From now on, or at least when I remember to, I will be prefacing my name with "The Great" because it has a nice ring to it. I think we should all stand apart from mediocrity when we can, and that is what I intend to do. Please plan your day accordingly.

Tell me, Mr. Twit:

What makes an unhinged little lefty like you think you can "deconstruct" anything besides a bag of Doritos and a bottle of stolen booze? Can you tell me what I'm thinking? Where is the termination point for the part of my psyche that splits between the ego and id?

Ruminate on these things, and make another lefty friend like this fellow "obscure" while you're at it. Meanwhile, let me marvel at your mastery of the obvious.

Hmm, it's been five minutes. Hormones and her dingbat friend Smurfette haven't responded--I guess I win.

Bah!

Norman:

Well, just as I figured, old man. An attempt to denigrate Charlie Cook (whose analysis is widely respected by both parties). Not a word on the *sustance* of his assessment on the effect of enthusiasm on GOTV operations. Not a shred of introspection regarding how enthusiastic your own Republican friends and acquaintences are in voting for a GOP congress which enables an ancephelatic chimpanzee.

Just, you know, the widest-gauge, elephant gun-grade cynicism about the electorate -- and a pretense that this applies especially to the critics of the status quo this cycle.

Norman ... can you see beyond your own belly button lint, old man? What is the wider world telling you? Do your friends feel confident that the GOP will hold the line? Or are you such an isolate that the only place you get the political opinions you buy into are on cranky right-wing blogs?

You've done absolutely nothing to problematize my argument that an absolute even parity in fundraising is not essential for Democratic victory (it never is, because Republicans always out-fundraise Democrats, as it would be expected) yet our fundraising gap is smaller than it's ever been. And that every single poll taken this cycle shows a *gaping* discrepancy between Democratic / anti-GOP enthusiasm to vote and change the stagnant fishtank water of government vs GOP enthusiasm for the glorious status quo.

In short, you've been bested on the merits, old man.

Sad but true. Any observer would confirm it for you, too.

Bob

*sustance* = *substance*

Norman:

NB: I'll consider any attempt to ad-hominemize the debate a tacit admission of defeat on your part, btw.

So by all means -- insult away :)

Bob

Not a word on the *sustance*

That's because what you wrote simply is not a word.

You've done absolutely nothing to problematize my argument that an absolute even parity in fundraising is not essential for Democratic victory (it never is, because Republicans always out-fundraise Democrats, as it would be expected) yet our fundraising gap is smaller than it's ever been. And that every single poll taken this cycle shows a *gaping* discrepancy between Democratic / anti-GOP enthusiasm to vote and change the stagnant fishtank water of government vs GOP enthusiasm for the glorious status quo.

Do you honestly think you can win an election with negative energy? Of course not. You cannot win an election by gauging the enthusiasm of the Dumbocrats--who are driven by their hatred of Bush and by that only--and that of the Republicans, who wish to keep you from institutionalizing the hate you have. You cannot win anything if you organize around negative energy. You actually have to have ideas, and that is what you are missing when you examine the polling data. If you had had ideas, instead of this negative energy of which I speak, your man Kerry would be President. An unhinged leftwing translates into what, demographically? A nightmare, is what. Who is motivated to vote with nothing but negative energy? I thought victory had to be inspiring to that slice of the swing vote that sits out there. You covet the swing vote, but you alienated it months ago. It's now gone. Where do you go to get it back? Yes, keep telling everyone the negative, and hope the swing voter goes in a direction that he never goes. And you wonder why you lose the game over and over again.

Now, pose the question to a thousand adults in this nation: do you want the Dumbocrats to raise your taxes, impeach the President, abandon Iraq, lose our connection to a secure supply of oil in the Middle East and leave America vulnerable to terrorists? I wonder what your polling data would look like, because quite a few Americans do think that, regardless of how you wish to "spin" it.

Do I care what Charlie Cook says? No, of course not. I don't base my life on what someone says. I act decisively and you are now obsessed with me. That is power. I have it. You do not. You wish for it, you write feverishly night after night to try to somehow acquire it, but you cannot. I have powers that are far superior to your understanding. As I stated last week, I am a Republican and you cannot kill me.

That is all--you may go to sleep and dream happy thoughts of the American Century.

NB: I'll consider any attempt to ad-hominemize the debate a tacit admission of defeat on your part, btw.

Ah, the last refuge of the thin-skinned: You cannot call me names, and when you do, they hurt me but I win, boo hoo hoo!

Be a man, son. Man up and act like there's a pair swinging between your legs. This is why you are bug guts on the windshield of life--no machismo.

Toss out those panties you're wearing and bring something to the table next time.

That is all--you may consider this my final post. Feel free to declare yourselves the victors, if only because listening to you bitch gets old, I must say.

Norman:

Wow, something resembling an actual argument. I'm almost somewhat impressed. Here's why it's wrong, though:

Midterm elections are *always* driven by negative energy. What do you think the '94 landslide was about -- the Contract With America? Something they stuck as an insert into the October Reader's Digest, so unless you had a doctor's appointment a month before the election, you were guaranteed to miss it? Over 70% voters in that election didn't even know what it was.

No, what drove Newt's revolution was a revulsion at an out-of-touch Congress filled with incumbents in there for decades. There was also anger at Hillary's high-handed attempt to reform healthcare behind closed doors. Bottom line, Norman -- it was anger. Negative energy. The GOP should certainly know something about voting *against* things -- think of all those anti-gay marriage amendments in '04 which allegedly pushed up the Christian vote. Karl Rove is a virtuoso at harnessing resentment. What do you think the GOP is using now in a last-ditch attempt to juice up the base? Glowing happy talk about the economy or our "progress" in Iraq? Hell no -- fear of a Nancy Pelosi Congress. That whole idiot litany of straw men you attribute as a "Democratic platform" is crystalline-pure irrational negative energy.

The myth of a "smelly hippie base" driving the Democrats is only a sign of the last time you had an actual idea in your head (sometime thirty years ago, one would guess). There is no hardcore leftist base in the Democratic Party with anything remotely like the agenda-driving capability of the hardcore right-wing GOP base. And moderate voters have grown *nauseated* at this. They feel shut out of the process, which is why they're rejecting the GOP in droves. You know four candidates in Kansas switched from Republican to Democrat for this race? Why? Because modrate Republicans are entirely fed up with being shut out by the loonie tunes who control GOP primaries.

That's why you have moderate Democratic governors in states like Kansas and Michigan. That's why District 1 in *Idaho* has a good chance of going Democratic this year (the GOP opponent is an off-the-charts right-wing moonbat). This is why hardass immigration candidates are crashing and burning in front-line immigration states like Arizona and New Mexico.

The Western anti-statist libertarian Republicans are getting sicker by the year of the statist, government-dependent authoritarian Southern Republicans. This is a fissure that makes the rift between Deaniacs and Lieberman supporters within the Democrats look like a mutual appreciation society.

Sorry, Norman. It's Historic Realignment Time. Start getting used to it, old man.

Bob

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What, no Smurfette and her hormonal friend Babs? They didn't return to the debate?

Does that mean that I won? Well, it was mine to lose.

Poor twit--the Contract With America was a government reform proposal. That was positive energy. Your counterpart to that is what, sir?

Hate.

Prepare to enter oblivion. You may actually lose seats this year! And you wonder why you can't get anything done.

Matt, a troll or two aside, there isn't another regular here who
would endorse that view -- or draw an equivalence between the posts
I write to order and an unhinged extreme-left ("all Progressives who
don't know they're Communists yet") spammer. Haven't you seen that
screed before? Depperman shows up every six months or so and re-posts
it. It's the exact same piece of boilerplate he posted the last time.

Complaints about spammers are ubiquitous. You, OTOH, speak for no one but yourself.

And by the by, where is your friend "obscure?" He certainly got under your skin, didn't he? And I've been posting here longer than the two of you put together. Does that mean I cannot weigh in?

I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that you are the best liberal poster on the entire blog. You should guest post on the front page and entertain royalty. Please, do not ever stop posting here. If you post at least twenty or thirty times a day, that is still not enough.

Bwah hah hah hah hah hah hah!

Norman Rogers said "... give condoms to grade school children."

With you GOP kooks it always comes down to sex with minors.

In the USA we have the highest teen pregnancy rate in the free world, due to enforced ignorance about human sexuality and contraceptives. We can thank the GOP and their medieval "christian" allies.

Norman:

Well of course, being so soundly thrashed in the argument,
you have to attempt to get my goat by crossposting
from a thread that isn't on the main page anymore.

Norman -- can you say "weak response?" :)

Oh heavens, it is so tedious to have to repeat oneself.
Once again, recite along with me: 70% of voters prior to
the election didn't know what the Contract With America was.
(What it was, was a mostly unconstitutional wonkfest. What
did we get from it? Term limits, IIRC, is the only point ever
enacted from it, and that on the state, not federal, level.)

What motivated the '94 election was (once again) outrage
at HillaryCare and the so-called House banking scandal.

"Hate"? Oh Norman, you're so cute when you're comical. The only two
emotions (if you could call them that) I've ever seen you express here
are disdain and condescension. Which are sublimated forms of hatred.

Is the GOP running on any grand(iose) visions for America or, heaven
forfend, "peace and democracy in the Mideast" (ROTFL !) ? No. The
GOP platform two weeks out amounts to whipping up irrational fear of
Scary Brown People and a Nancy Pelosi Congress. Real positive agenda,
that. Lotta *accomplishments* from this congress to remind voters :)

But that's the way of midterms. They are always referenda on the
party in power. And that means when the party in power loses seats
(which it nearly always does), they're motivated by negative, not
positive, energy. Any issue can be framed negatively or positively,
btw. Hatred of George Bush is a rational, positive and very loving
response to what he's done to the country and our American values.

You might not see it that way -- but millions of voters apparently
do. It's hardly the Democratic base that's the only segment of the
electorate who's fired up for change this year. Independents are
now favoring Democrats by whopping and unprecedented margins.

So once again, Norman, you didn't lay a glove on me. You didn't
meaningfully challenge the nature of midterms, let alone address
the plethora of GOP seats in rock-ribbed Red Country you're in
jeopardy of losing. And, of course, you'd never breathe a word
about the deep and toxic fissure between libertarians and social
conservatives that is going to foster the mother of all circular
firing squads whether you lose or not -- but especially if you lose.

So keep that game face on, Norman. Granted, it's a more
attractive visage than the death-rictus of primal panic :)

Bob

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So says the unhinged, screaming, profane nutjob!

*pointing at Norman*

I want some of what he's smoking :)

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