I've seen some funny stuff on the "surveys" the Democratic Party has sent me over the years, but never anything like that.

Now we know what the RNC interns are up to when they aren't programming the Albot.

Scummy yes, but the proper response would be (if you actually want to send it back) to check the second box with a donation of "other" -- that other being "zero", spelled out so there is no funny business.

It doesn't say they have to send it back. It's not implied it's a government document. Illiterate Democrat voters might be confused, but Republican voters understand how the world works. That's why they're republicans.

I hate saying this, but I have no doubt we do similarly scummy/scammy things in our "survey" efforts.

It would be easy enough to find out: wait a week or two and do an opensecrets search for $11 contributions to the RSCC. Very few people, I'd wager, contribute $11, most people contribute $10 or $50 or whatever.

Umm, AH this is a mailer to Republicans. Again the Republicans treat their supporters as chumps.

I live in Utah and I've received that exact mailing. I filled it out (even though I'm pretty sure my answers weren't what they wanted to see) and sent it back in without the fee. I figured I was doing my part by making them pick up the postage to get a useless survey back.

I think it is more important that the drug industries are giving us tens of millions of dollars, to be sure that the goverment doesn't DARE to interfere with the Free Market and actually negotiate prices.

Thank you, guys, for saving us from Communism.

Rob-- Precisely why it's not a problem. Republicans know they don't have to contribute, which is why this isn't misleading. They usually WANT to contribute. If the Democrat party did this, it would be much worse, because many Democrats can't read very well.

My senile Buchananite/Robertsonite granny would have paid the $11.

The "moral conservatives" at Readers' Digest had managed to sell her 10 concurrent subscriptions by the time she had to go to a home.

But that's about the state of the Republican base these days.

30 plus years ago, I responded to a Republican "fundraiser" with a magnanimous contribution of $1.35 or so -- in pennies pasted to a sheet of paper with lots of scotch tape. I also let their postage paid envelope cover the postage. Got me off their mailing list for something like 10 years.

Sounds like the National Republican Senatorial Committee has been hiring a few College Republican interns.

In order: who cares; more than zero, which is criminal; almost certainly; probably; certainly; no; and no.

"Does everyone feeble-minded enough to include the $11 payment go into a special chump file for future use?"

Of course they do. It's hard to believe anyone is dumb enough to actually pay this fee. All the old people I know would laugh and immediatly throw this in the trash. My late grandfather would check the first no box, check "other," and fill in a -11.39 dollar contribution, for the stamp plus a fee help cover the cost of his cable TV.

Honestly, I received a VERY similar survey from the Democrats (I live in NJ). I really wished I had saved it to send to you. It had almost the exact same wording at the bottom. I can't remember the exact $ amount to cover the tabulating, etc. but it was about the same.

Looks, if mail comes to my house and I didn't ask for it, I can do with it any damn thing I please.

That's the law.

I get DNC "surveys" about once a month, and I used to think they were insulting with their assumptions that I would believe 1)Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Ted Kennedy or Howard Dean is writing me PERSONALLY, and 2)that anyone is actually going to read my answers to the "survey" before or after cashing my check.

But now those look like epitomes of discretion and honesty compared to the one you've got here.

Of course, it fits in perfectly with the repugs' treatment of people and elderly people especially in general. On Iraq, on Social Security, on prescription drugs, on the estate tax, etc., it's pretty clearly "You're so stupid we can lie our asses off right to your face and then make you pay us money for doing it. And then you'll be so grateful for us fucking you over that you'll vote for us even when it means you'll die slowly in horrible pain and utter destitution."

Feh! To hell with anyone who still falls for that shit - they deserve what's coming to them.

You might check out the College Republican scams of 2004. They bilked seniors, some out of their whole life savings, to finance their group by conning hteminto beliveing they were contributing to help elect Bush. Raised $17 million.

This is fund raising ploy transferred from the evangelicals to the Republicans. Priests have known for a very long time how to take money from old ladies.

Nahh, this crosses the line. This is in the category of those guys who show up on the doorsteps of old folks and try to sell them aluminum siding.

It's the same exact kinda contempt David Kuo was talking about re: the evangelicals.

I've received hundreds of phony surveys from Democrats, but never anything like this. This is an out-and-out scam.

And, at the risk of responding to a phony (or, equally bad, real) American Hawk, do you really believe this is the kind of society we ought to live in? Where a major political party runs aluminum siding scams (on their most loyal supporters, no less)? Where every 90 year old is on their own to recognize every fraudster that shows up in their mailbox?

Wow. Think about it, guy. Would you do that to your friends, family, people you care about? What kind of a country is it that you want, anyhow?

My wife and donate to some liberal causes, so we get junk like this from the Democrats. We get junk from the Republicans as well, of course. Which junk is junkiest for you probably depends on your religion and your taste in art. I find junk to be pretty bipartisan.

meanwhile, I occasionally pass on web sites that have interesting information about power and energy. Here is another of those sites.

http://www.chpcenterma.org/

Republican voters understand how the world works. That's why they're republicans.

That is one of your better bullshit statements. This was targeted to Republicans, not the general population.

But as to your assertion that R's "know how the world works" - they are figuring it out and defecting across the ballot.

American Squawk's ability to plumb the mind of every single Republican voter in this country is absolutely amazing! His keen grasp of the illiteracy of registered Democrats is similarly astounding. I think Kevin should hire him so as to ensure that he can continue to regale us with his fundamental political insights such as:

"Democrats are dumb!"
"Republicans are smart!"

"Democrats eat dead babies!"
"Republicans eat beef!"

"Democrats smell like the inside of a diaper bin!"
"Republicans smell like the inside of a laundry deteregent box!"

"Democrats want terrorists to enslave them and torture them until they bleed from every orifice and scream for death!"
"Republicans don't need the terrorist's help!"

Oops:

detergent
terrorists'

Must. Use. Preview.

This is small potatoes.

With all due respect and in all sincerity, I have not seen the word 'revolting' used here in the contexts of many other much worse examples of Republicans' immorality, unethical behavior and lack of concern for human life.

Whether Democrats do it or not.
Whether its legal or not.

Its not right.

The Republican party says that it wants to do the right thing. This "survey" is not.

Republicans should be ashamed of the RNSC and the RNC (see e.g. Ford ads its "reponsible" for).

Whether or not Democrats should be ashamed as well might be a interesting tangent but not really relevant to answering whether this is right or not.

I've gotten similar stuff here in Austin, addressed to me. No telling how they got my name...I've never voted Republican in my life.

I typically mis-fill it out, and enclose a check for $0.11.

Also, you can use the postage paid return envelope to mail scrap aluminum.

I filled it out (even though I'm pretty sure my answers weren't what they wanted to see) and sent it back in without the fee.

You'll be getting a visit from Fox Security soon.

"Am I naive to find this kind of thing revolting?"

I certainly hope not...

The GOP think's you're stupid, and when they have supporters like Mr. Hawk, one can see why.

I gotta start keeping the stuff the R's send me, instead of just recycling with an eye-roll.

In Missouri, we register to vote but declare no party affiliation, we just request our specific ballot for primary elections. This means that in election years, we get entire forrests of mailings from both sides in our mail boxes.

"Am I naive to find this kind of thing revolting?"

Question sorta answers itself, doesn't it?

Do Democrats do stuff like this too?

No, the Democratic party is perfect in every way. No BJ's from interns or $100,000 bribes hidden in the freezer or anything like that.

I predict the Democrats will gain 103 seats in the House, and 67 seats in the Senate.

Do Democrats do stuff like this too? Am I naive to find this kind of thing revolting?

If tbrosz were still posting here, he'd scoff that it's laughable to imagine that the Democrats are simon-pure.

Yes, despite your explicit disclaimer of that very thought.

What's worse, tbrosz was at least capable of honest debate, if most of the time he chose not to. Kevin's current crop of trolls are much, much lamer.

I've gotten surveys from dems, but honestly, I've never opened them. Next time I will, but I just assumed it was a fund-raiser.

I met AM Hawk at the Gay club,Hawk gimme a call.Sincerly A 15 yearold male.No shit really.

A friend said yesterday, "But I tried to leave you a message! Your answering machine was full!"

Full? It's never full. It was empty when I left the house.

When I came back I found one long -- very long -- computer call from one of our more hideously corrupt Republican incumbents (uses office to facilitate real estate deals), a run-on-and-on message urging me to vote for him. Cutting out possibility of any other contact (maybe that's the intention?).

PS: All solicitation mail gets thrown into the PO round file long before it ever reaches the car and gets taken home. All. Regardless of party, irrespective of the nobility of the cause. I've gotten to the point where I'll give to whatever organization I choose at whatever moment I choose. No more "memberships" -- no more automatic renewals. No more guilt trips.

Less than 40 comments to get to Clinton's penis.

"Blow" TAPS for this thread.

This should be forwarded to the police for investigation.It is clearly misleading older people for financial gain.
Why are all these slimeball letters and ads only coming from the GOP?

Why are their no moderate republicans anymore?

Several years my elderly father living in small town N.Cal received many similar such mailings.He truly believed it was his duty to complete survey & mail contribution because the Reagan Admin. had chosen him.Long after his passing,these despicable people continued to churn out their garbage.No matter how many times we wrote "Deceased" across envelope & form, the machine just kept churning.

I like how the $11 "helps" cover the cost of processing the survey. Like it costs EVEN MORE than that!! Who's doing their processing -- Halliburton?

And to the reader who said "I'm sure" the Democrats do this: read the earlier post about how every time the Repugs do something sleazy, the media say, "But we're sure similar Democratic stuff is coming too!"

I think I'm on every Democratic mailing list known to man, and I've seen the surveys, but never the solicitation of a "processing fee." If anyone has, they should send it in so it can be posted. I'd really need proof to believe it.

For some reason, I'm also on a lot of Repug lists, as is my husband. We have been sent pictures of Laura and George, and told to remit a "processing fee" for the cost of having been sent them. They also mentioned that if we really came through with the cash, we could be on the Republican National Committee's "HONOR ROLL." Seriously. They used the word honor. In caps.

Anybody else notice that the font & layout of the main "questions" part of the survey has the exact same look & feel as a IRS 1040 form?

It's pretty obvious they're trying to make this look like a Federal Gov't document to confuse the elderly.

> Whether Democrats do it or not.
> Whether its legal or not.
>
> Its not right.

I agree, but our society is such that anyone who says so, even a self-professed liberal, is perceived as weak and naive.

Kevin - yes, the Dems do similar things on their fundraising mailers.

Cranky

"Also, you can use the postage paid return envelope to mail scrap aluminum."

You can also pack bricks in a box, and tape the postage reply envelope to the front. Of course, with the "anti-terror" legislation they passed recently, that's pretty much a one-way ticket to Guantanamo.

Let us see, there are three choices provided, yes to supporting Bush and GOP Congresscritter with "blank" amount and participating in the GOP survey, no to doing the survey but yes to contributing "blank" amount to the Bush/GOP agenda, and no to the survey and to contributing to the GOP agenda but 11 dollars for the cost of reprocessing this unused form. Funny thing, I see nothing that tells a person they can return the survey WITHOUT having to pay money, yet the top part of this form claims it is imperative to not throw it away and to return it if you are not willing to fill it out. So the argument that anyone would know they don't have to pay a cent, especially GOP elderly loyalists is like so many other GOP claims pure nonsense/fiction.

This is clearly aimed at taking advantage of elderly GOPers in the same way many other scam artists do. Does anyone seriously believe it takes 11 dollars to make one of these forms, or to resend them to another addy when they are returned?!? Come on, get real people. While this is far from the most heinous thing I have seen GOPers do where electioneering and fundraising is concerned it is typical of the mean spiritedness and willingness to treat the average GOP voter as a cash cow and a stupid person that only lives to support the GOP. It is offensive, and it speaks volumes for the contempt the GOP machine has for many of those whose votes they require to gain and hold power with.

You're not naive, or if you are, I'm inclined to think it would be a better world if everybody else were too.

But you are late to the party. My mother received this exact same mailing at least a year ago, and it might have been more like three years ago.

She's not a Republican any more. She would probably have gotten there on her own, but I know for a fact that this mailing helped the process along.

Scum Scum Scum Scum if you want me to stop writing Scum you must send 15 dollars to the RNC.NOW! Not tommorrow Scum Scum Scum Scum Scum Scum Scum Scum Scum Scum--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Scum Scum Scum Scum Scum Scum

My grandfather had Alzheimer's for years. When we cleared out his office before he passed away, we found hundreds of photos of him looking dazed, with papers sticking out of his pockets, standing next to Republican luminaries like George H.W. Bush and our governor. Guess what his bank statements showed.

In their defense, the elected officials looked pretty uncomfortable as if they knew what they were doing.

This is a boring thread.

Greed has ruined the World Series, which, back in the day, was a genuine uniting force in America. It is being played in the 4th week of October, about 3 weeks late, because "labor" (millionaire ballplayers) and management (a cartel) want profit-making playoffs and a season at least 12 games too long.

My grandfather had Alzheimer's for years. When we cleared out his office before he passed away, we found hundreds of photos of him looking dazed, with papers sticking out of his pockets, standing next to Republican luminaries like George H.W. Bush and our governor. Guess what his bank statements showed.

The lack of respect you are showing for your grandfather's convictions is appalling.

Less than 40 comments to get to Clinton's penis.

That's gonna be his legacy, too. Not really fair, but I guess some things aren't fair.

You mean like how George W. Bush's legacy will be his destabilization of the Middle East by waging a war of aggression?

Democrats firmly believe that the elderly, as a class, are gormless idiots who need to be wards of the state to survive. Kevin's post is just one more example of this elitism.

My own elderly parents have at least fifty IQ points on most of the commenters here, and I suspect so do the vast majority of the elderly in this country.

Ads--not just political ones--designed to look like government mailings are legion. I've gotten a few designed to make you think they're from the IRS.

This mailing apparently made the rounds back in March, too.

Did anyone bother to ask the guy he bought the house from if he'd ever sent the 11 bucks?

Funny thing, I see nothing that tells a person they can return the survey WITHOUT having to pay money, yet the top part of this form claims it is imperative to not throw it away and to return it if you are not willing to fill it out.

Well, look, the GOP realizes that they are supposed to listen to their rank-and-file members, but is also congenitally incapable of listening to anyone without being paid for the privilege. So, naturally, they have to charge a nominal fee for paying attention to the survey, its not really deceitful so much as it is a statement about how entrenched the "pay for play" culture is in the Republican Party.

When my parents died 6 years ago, I began cleaning out the office in their house. They were elderly and life-long Republicans. I was shocked at the mail they received. Quite often, they had registered letters informing the of some contest they had won, requiring a "small" several hundred dollar transaction fee. There were "bills" demanding immediate payment for magazines they had no interest in. They got many, many "prey on the elderly" scams each day. But the Republican tactics made me just as ill.

The "bills" and "invoices" from the Republican party were paid regularly, inluding their dues to the college Republicans. Two or three times a week there were also "legitimate" fund-raising requests by various Republican entities. These letters invariably started out with something like, "We appreciate your constant generosity in the past, but new circumstances make us turn to you again. We must stop..." Then it would always go on to mention the latest "anti-American" utterances of First Lady, Hillary Clinton. Senator Kennedy would be mentioned prominantly. By then, Bill Clinton was a lame duck, so his "treasonous" actions were always in the last paragraph.

I often wonder how much money was donated over the last years of their lives. There were pictures, ranging from Ronald Reagan to some obscure politician thanking them for contributing to his legal defense fund, scattered around the house. I suspect they had donated a lot of money.

With that said, do we know that the Democrats don't do the same thing? I don't have any experience with that since my parents and my elderly aunts were staunch Republicans.

Look, I've been involved in direct mail for over 25 years. I also deal daily with people who are in their 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's.

The Republican's with this mailing are fairly clearly violating the bylaws of the Direct Marketing Association. They are lying to their prospects about the $11. fee. At the scale they are mailing it would be a shock to learn they're paying more than 35 cents per piece to print and mail. You know and I know there is no poll tabulation going on.

I'm in the trenches every day with their targeted elderly people. A good percentage of them are capable of sniffing this scam out. However, believe me, they've crunched their numbers and tested this mailer, and are certainly finding enough suckers to make it pay for them. If this indeed is a mailing piece someone has seen earlier this year, they may simply be back-testing the offer (if you can call it an offer), but more than likely have found enough gullible people to add to their treasury.

Shows that there are plenty of old-style cons among the neo-cons in the GOP.

Would any of the posters suggesting that the Demcrats do similar things produce some evidence?

What's worse, tbrosz was at least capable of honest debate, if most of the time he chose not to. Kevin's current crop of trolls are much, much lamer.

That's exactly right. Some cousin of Gresham's Law at work again, I suppose. It's a shame. On occasion, tbrosz was challenging, and we all need to be challenged.

Not these dudes, though. It's become impossible to tell the real right-wing posters from the parodies.

My own elderly parents have at least fifty IQ points on most of the commenters here, and I suspect so do the vast majority of the elderly in this country.

Well, I hope they have at least 50 IQ points on you or they might forget how to breathe.

I have reviewed you posting and find it acceptable. Please remit $11.00

monkeybone, above, links to a March WaPo article that discussed the same GOP mailing. It seems that this is a staple GOP technique, and its repetition would suggest that it brings home the bacon.

Yet monkeybone's conclusion is:

Democrats firmly believe that the elderly, as a class, are gormless idiots

He/she seems to base this, as far as I can tell, on the hypothesis that nobody really responds to such mailings. Which, if true, would mean that those who persist in making these mailings are the gormless idiots. Which I find very unlikely.

After my mom died we had her mail forwarded to us. What an eye opener! In the past 18 months she's gotten at least three of the mailings you described from the Republicans, one of which was a "personal request" from Elizabeth Dole.

I suspect my mom was a pretty regular donor - not because she misunderstood the form, but because she was gullible enough to believe all the slanted text and leading questions in these ridiculous "surveys" - plus, my sister was a big influence. But that's another story...

Col Bat Guano puts it much more eloquently.

Kevin,

Oh, I don't necessarily think this is any worse than telling old people that Republicans want to turn them into Soylent Green rather than pay them Social Security.

Doesn't american hawk ever get tired of being a worthless gasbag?

What's the problem? They would just blow it at the casino or on food anyway? The Catholic church uses the false obligation scam all the time to raise funds. My mom bought enough Christmas cards to last several lifetimes, hokey medals(shipped unsolicited), helped build shrines to our Lady of the Ozarks,... When she was dying the local shaman was at her side constantly, looking for the final score. When God is on your side, you have no shame.

I got one of those last election cycle. I shredded the survey, stuffed it and a couple chinese menus I had lying around the place, and mailed it back postage due. Didn't get one this time around. Whee!

Michael7843853,

Shouldn't that last part really be O-G in 08?

I have reviewed you posting and find it acceptable. Please remit $11.00
Posted by: CT on October 26, 2006 at 2:51 PM | PERMALINK

Wrong answer! You must never, ever say please. It tips your hand.

This is classic mail fraud. Publishing Clearing House was nailed for this. All that someone needs to do is sue. RNC knows this and they are betting no one will sue.

AT&T got nailed for similar action in another domain. Remember the story with elderly customers still paying ridiculous fees for "renting" phone equipment from AT&T?

Ultimately, how is the RNC different from the Nigerian bank scam?

Buck,

We don't take surveys.

Less than 40 comments to get to Clinton's penis.
That's gonna be his legacy, too. Not really fair, but I guess some things aren't fair.

Actually, I never think of his penis when someone mentions Bill Clinton, but then I'm not a Republican.

Mr somewhat irascible uncle was a lifelong Republican. When he could no longer manage his affairs due to Alzheimer's, I became his conservator. When I organized his belongings, I was amazed to find all kinds of Republican trinkets, and wondered how much he'd paid for them.

In better days, we used to kid him about returning his Social Security benefit to the government, un-republican as it was to accept it. His answer was always a vehement "HELL NO!"

He never could understand the contradiction.

Like our votes make a difference....sheesh.
Vote RepubliCrat!
Because they don't care what you think, as long as they get paid!

Democratic idiots accidentally vote for Buchanan. Republican idiots accidentally send $11 to the RNC. That's how politics works. Whoever is better at milking the idiots wins.

Democratic idiots accidentally vote for Buchanan.

Actually the main problem is that Democratic idiots don't vote at all -- or the Republicans would never win.

mhr, good points -- but note that all those southern Democrats eventually became Republicans. That should tell you something.

Now do you have anything of this sort that's going on today -- anything like these fraudulent GOP mailings?

JS: note that all those southern Democrats eventually became Republicans.

That's what bothers me about Condi Rice's stated reason for being a Republican, because southern Democrats prevented her dad from voting. The Democrats' civil rights plank in 1948 was the reason for the creation of the Dixiecrats and led to the defection of the racists from the Democratic Party to the Republican Party.

asdfg wrote:

Actually, I never think of his penis when someone mentions Bill Clinton, but then I'm not a Republican.

So you're saying that when someone mentions Clinton's legacy you don't even think about the Lewinsky scandal?

Lying comes so easily to lefties.

Michael wrote:

The Catholic church uses the false obligation scam all the time to raise funds. My mom bought enough Christmas cards to last several lifetimes, hokey medals(shipped unsolicited), helped build shrines to our Lady of the Ozarks,... When she was dying the local shaman was at her side constantly, looking for the final score.

Or, maybe your mom just felt that her faith in God was an important part of her life, and helped her to be a kinder and better person. Maybe she felt that giving to the church was one way to help offer that faith to others.

Nahhh, couldn't be.

So you're saying that when someone mentions Clinton's legacy you don't even think about the Lewinsky scandal?

Yes, if you could read, that's exactly what I said. Now go back to your dreams about Clinton's penis.

Yes, if you could read, that's exactly what I said.

Like I said, lying certainly comes easily to lefties. But I didn't need you to prove that one.

The lack of respect you are showing for your grandfather's convictions is appalling.

On the contrary. I'm old enough to remember him before he got ill, when he was a Democrat who gave much of his time to pro bono work for poor defendents in his city. When others left for the suburbs, he stayed and worked. He was recruited by the Republican Party only after he got ill, and spoke only about the people he met, not their ideals and plans.

Ultimately, how is the RNC different from the Nigerian bank scam?

Nigerian scammers don't use the money they scam from you to then take destroy your legal rights after their done, usually.

Well I was going to comment in passing about "of course the Repubs do this, Richard Viguerie is the animating spirt behind all of their direct mail pieces." But in looking for stuff about his criminal appropriation of the Social Secuirty logo to scare seniors in similar ways, I came across this diagram. Might be too reverse-vampirey, maybe not, but either way it's amusing as hell.

AH found out he didn't have to contribute only after reading this story; that's why he's so upset.

Jim in AZ, it's not just political parties, it's interest groups who always turn up the "scare" heat. Sierra, NRDC, Earthjustice? Doorknob bless them, but they get no money beyond my annual membership renewal. The only possible exception is if they have a matching donor drive.

The DNC can't even spell my first name right. That's because my previous driver's license didn't, confirming from whence it mined my name.

Ann: In general, I say, let them waste their money on mail. The sad part is the waste of trees, not the waste of money. Just make sure to recycle this stuff, please, everybody.

Like I said, lying certainly comes easily to lefties.

Since you don't know me at all, it is obvious that you are incredibly stupid.

So you're saying that when someone mentions Clinton's legacy you don't even think about the Lewinsky scandal?
Posted by: sportsfan79

seriously??? ... the fact that repubs can't get past clinton's penis somehow obligates a similar mental handicap in democrats? this is projection, one of our most primitive reflexes, at its finest.

the lady doth protest too much.

Like I said, lying certainly comes easily to lefties. But I didn't need you to prove that one.

Like you can see into someones soul and know what they think? Not evryone is a homoerotic perv, you know. The obsession that you people seem to have with the Clenis is really quite telling, in a Freudiansort of way.

What I think about first is that we had eight years of peace and prosperity, and a successful foreign ploicy, not a cock-up of massive proportions.

What I think is telling is that I keep referring to the "Lewinsky scandal", and all my responses refer either to "penis", or "clenis". Can you guys just type a post with 100 "penis"'s in it, and get it out of your system?

sportsfan,

I think history will view the Lewinsky scandal as a Republican scandal. Presidents have been having affairs at least since Jefferson. It sometimes surfaced in campaigns (once again, starting with Jefferson) but it never became the concern of Congress. It was the Republicans who spent tens of millions in taxpayer money in an attempt to make a blowjob into the number-one national priority. Throughout it all, Clinton maintained approval ratings that W now can only dream of -- the majority of the public just didn't buy it. Yet the Republicans spent more time holding Congressional public hearings on the Lewinsky affair than they did while investigating 9/11.

So, sure, keep bringing up the Lewinsky scandal. It only reminds us of just how morally bankrupt the Republicans are.

Here are some links to positive ads done well:

Paper Clips

Drivers Seat

Education

Respect

It is possible to make compelling ads with a positive message.

Here in Missouri we are strting a petition drive imploring her to come next door and be our governor next.

Damnit! Wrong thread!

Throughout it all, Clinton maintained approval ratings that W now can only dream of -- the majority of the public just didn't buy it.

The guy is bulletproof, no doubt about it. Incidentally (off topic), I think he's your best candidate for '08.

But, the fact remains that the Lewinsky scandal and impeachment proceedings will be the NUMBER 1 footnote on his legacy. And anyone who doesn't acknowledge that is being disingenuous.

asdfg wrote:
asdfg:
"Actually, I never think of his penis when someone mentions Bill Clinton, but then I'm not a Republican."

sportsfan79:
"So you're saying that when someone mentions Clinton's legacy you don't even think about the Lewinsky scandal?"

I will share an honest lefty thought with you. For me, at the beginning of Bush's first term the concept of Bill Clinton was linked closely with the Lewinsky scandal. I didn't give a crap about his sex life with consenting adults, but due to all the media coverage the scandal got, Lewinsky came to mind when Bill did.

Not now. When I think of Bill Clinton I think of economic prosperity, travelling when Americans were respected and liked in other countries, and waking up each morning to headlines that didn't tell me how many American troops were killed yesterday in a three and a half year-long war that was supposed to be over in months. You can argue with me all you want over whether the prosperity, the respect, the liking, the peace were "real" or not, but that is now what I associate with Bill Clinton. I feel great grief that Bill Clinton wasn't president when the 9/11 attack happened because I think he would have handled it much more sensibly.

LBJ is certainly associated with the failed Vietnam War, but he also has the positive association of pushing for civil rights. Even Nixon went to China.

If Bush's legacy is not the failed Iraq War, it might be the failure to deal with the nuclear threats from North Korea and Iran. You can argue all you want about his tactics. The fact is, he failed, and the nuclear acquisition happened on his watch. Or maybe we'll look back and see that his insistence on "waiting for more information" during his presidency made the problem of global warming worse by an order of magnitude. He's wasted any opportunity to try to control illegal immigration from Mexico by discouraging his rich supporters from hiring illegal workers. Illegal immigration from the south may lead to the worst terrorist attack of all. Or maybe it will come from the uninspected cargo pouring into our ports. The DOW may be high, but for the lower and middle classes, wages haven't kept pace with inflation and good jobs have gotten scarcer.

Now, tell me what Bush is going to do/has done that will weigh his legacy toward the positive side?

I'm not worried that Clinton is going to end up with an unfair legacy. And I think Bush is going to get the legacy he deserves too.

If tbrosz were still posting here, he'd scoff that it's laughable to imagine that the Democrats are simon-pure.

Ya know, I hadn't even noticed that tbrosz left. Did it's GOP trolling contract run out?

Two years ago, I got something similar from the RNC. I sent back the envelope empty, EXCEPT for a post-it note in which I wrote: "LETS ELECT BUSH: Enclosed please find a check for $500" I left one side of the envelope open. Heh.

Ahhh, Amway methods are spreading like wildfire. God loves America!

My grandfather had Alzheimer's for years.

...we found hundreds of photos of him looking dazed,

standing next to Republican luminaries like George H.W. Bush

Wow. You're grandfather was Ronald Reagan?

So maybe it's the duty of every good Democrat to get his/her name on Repub mailing lists in order to abuse the enclosed postage-paid mailing label.

It'd be kind of nice to make them pay a few hundred thousand dollars in postage for all manner of junk that's been spent back to them.

I've gotten pretty much this exact same crap from the DNC here in CA, unfortunately.

Seems to be the industry standard.

Another Clinton's penis thread - Well, at least he had one and balls to boot.

This little twirp of late at 1600 has neither balls nor brains.

Ah, yes, the ol' tbrosz - now TLB on immigration issues - they must be camping out in front of his "rocket shop" garage. Loved his "links" to nowhere.

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What did happen to tbrosz?

not suprised at all really the govt been corupt for a long time. grifters thats all they are they con u into voting or support of their faction. what is truely wrong is politicians are only in office to get money from lobbiest so who really runs this country?

not suprised at all really the govt been corupt for a long time. grifters thats all they are they con u into voting or support of their faction. what is truely wrong is politicians are only in office to get money from lobbiest so who really runs this country?

ckelly, I'm laughing out loud. Thanks.

shorter AH: The RNC is not misleading because Republicans know they are misleading.

The lack of respect you are showing for your grandfather's convictions is appalling.

I like how wingnuts (in this case Thomas playing sportiespice) naturally equate dementia with Republican political conviction.

Sometimes there is honesty in their naivete.

I just changed my registration to Independent..poof, no more donation requests. Now they spend their time trying to buy my vote!

What a bunch of scumbags. I particularly like Am Hawk's response; I really learned a lot there. "There's nothing immoral in running a scam because anyone stupid enough to get fooled deserves whatever they get" -- this is the morality of Jeff Skilling, John Gotti, and, apparently, Karl Rove and Ken Mehlman.

They sure seem to put a lot of stake in "President Bozo and his agenda". Whatever it might be - SUPPORT IT.

What I think is telling is that I keep referring to the "Lewinsky scandal", and all my responses refer either to "penis", or "clenis". Can you guys just type a post with 100 "penis"'s in it, and get it out of your system?

Posted by: sportsfan79 on October 26, 2006 at 5:11 PM

LIAR!

No, the Democratic party is perfect in every way. No BJ's from interns or $100,000 bribes hidden in the freezer or anything like that.

Posted by: sportsfan79 on October 26, 2006 at 1:23 PM

Your first post in the thread mentions BJ's. Global Citizen's response was entirely appropriate.

To YanquiPigeon, or american chicken or whatever

Republicans can't read, write, or tell the difference between a scam, a poke in the eye with a blunt stick, and decent government. that's why they vote for someone who can't read, write etc.
so there. na na na na na

billy the boy:

Republicans can't read, write, or tell the difference between a scam, a poke in the eye with a blunt stick, and decent government. that's why they vote for someone who can't read, write etc.
so there. na na na na na

My, what an effective comment from one so strapping and young.

Suppose you could back that up a bit, come up with some aspect of this that makes sense, and favor us with an opinion when the moment strikes you, eh? Until then, the grownups have the floor.

Disgusto:

I like how wingnuts (in this case Thomas playing sportiespice) naturally equate dementia with Republican political conviction.

My dementia is years away; however, the alcohol certainly helps me get through these dreary days of having to listen to Dumbocrats prattle on and on about George W Bush. Admit it--the man beat you twice and there's nothing you can do about it so stop pretending to dislike him. You know, deep down, if he didn't exist, you'd have to invent him. Yes. Deep down, you love having him for a convenient villain. It soothes your naked liberalism.

tanj, your post of 11:30 is the clearest example I've ever seen of liberal spin and falsehood.

I post at 5:11 p.m. that my respondents are mentioning "penis", while I am not.

You cite that in an earlier post I wrote "BJ", and then use that to claim that at some point I did in fact post "penis".

Clearly, you are the liar. And anyone who knows how to operate a mouse can scroll up and verify that for themselves.

Thanks for another great example of lefty lying.

I post at 5:11 p.m. that my respondents are mentioning "penis", while I am not.

Actually, your claim was that your opponents were using "penis" while you were using "Lewinsky scandal".

You cite that in an earlier post I wrote "BJ", and then use that to claim that at some point I did in fact post "penis".

Actually, no, it was used to show that you were lying when you claimed that you were only using "Lewinsky scandal" when your opponents were using "penis".

"BJ" is not "Lewinsky scandal".

Clearly, you are the liar. And anyone who knows how to operate a mouse can scroll up and verify that for themselves.

You know, I did just that, and it showed me that you were lying both in this post, and the post that this one was defending against an accusation of lying.

Thanks for another great example of lefty lying.

Thanks for another great example of sportsfan79 lying.