Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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October 28, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

WALL STREET JOURNAL WATCH....Brad DeLong has a long post today about Greg Mankiw's recent Wall Street Journal op-ed endorsing higher gasoline taxes. You should read the whole thing (it's an interesting discussion), but since this is a weekend I just want to highlight the objection raised by the estimable Scott Hodge, President of the Tax Foundation:

The French have some of the highest gas taxes in Europe yet remain 100% dependent on foreign oil.

It's true! There are no oil fields anywhere within the boundaries of the French Republic, which necessarily means that if the French use even a single liter of oil, they will be 100% dependent on foreign oil. For the same reason, the United States remains dangerously dependent on foreign supplies of cocoa beans, bananas, and high-quality Gouda cheese.

Scott Hodge apparently has a low assessment of the IQ of the Wall Street Journal's opinion page readers. The editors of the Wall Street Journal opinion page seem to share this assessment. I wonder if their readers know this?

Kevin Drum 1:03 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (82)
 
Comments

Low opinions are not always mistaken.

Posted by: CapitalistImperialistPig on October 28, 2006 at 1:06 PM | PERMALINK

I'm 100% dependent on oxygen that blows in from off the ocean somewhere.

Posted by: afxstein on October 28, 2006 at 1:18 PM | PERMALINK

The real rdw would probably say, "I had no idea".

Posted by: fake rdw on October 28, 2006 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINK

Whither rdw?

Posted by: cld on October 28, 2006 at 1:25 PM | PERMALINK

Bush writes his name on the flag,


http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7255/bushwriteshisnameonthefqt2.jpg


It's not desecration when they do it.

Posted by: cld on October 28, 2006 at 1:30 PM | PERMALINK

The French have some of the highest gas taxes in Europe yet remain 100% dependent on foreign oil.

Mon Dieu! C'est horrible. Nous sommes condamn!

Posted by: a Frog in boiling water on October 28, 2006 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINK

Understated snark will not get the liberal pundits anywhere.

We need good old fashioned foaming at the mouth if we want the people to understand that the Republicans and their avid supporters like NR and WSJ think that that the Americans are stupid, and they can shove all sorts of nonsense down the people's throats. This game has worked for the Republicans so well for the last so many years.

Posted by: gregor on October 28, 2006 at 1:32 PM | PERMALINK

Scott Hodge is ignorant as well as arrogant. France is only dependent for 97% of its oil from foreign sources.

According to the CIA France produces 76,300 bbls/day (2003 est.) but consumes 2.06 million bbl/day (2003 est.). It has proven reserves of 144.3 million bbls (1 January 2002).

There are 63 oilfields within Metropolitan France.

Posted by: blowback on October 28, 2006 at 1:33 PM | PERMALINK

Actually, this is a valid point. They should drop their gas taxes to zero, and let the market take over. The magic of the marketplace will then create vast reservoirs of crude under France.

Posted by: ColoZ on October 28, 2006 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

Ah, Kevin.

Of course, the point again sails far above your head. The point, of course, is that onerous French taxes are meant to stop consumption of oil, yet it continues unabated. The French, in fact, have some of the highest per capita gasoline (they call it petrol over there) consumption in the world. Very typical of French hypocrisy, since they are always bashing us for our long commutes and houses in the exurbs. Meanwhile, the french guzzle gas like their wine, and live in ramshackle Parisian apartments above ancient brothels, and their skin is dingy with the smut of Paris and carbon emissions.

But go ahead, Kevin, keep supporting those cheese eating surrender monekys.

Posted by: egbert on October 28, 2006 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK

I see where Bush is desperately dredging up that old bugaboo - vote for the Democrats and they'll raise your taxes. Forget about real issues, it always comes down to money for the Repubs doesn't it?

Okay Repubs, how long will it take for your and your children and grandchildren to pay off this president's monumental debt? Let's start with $337,797,131,583 for the cost of the Iraq war (so far) http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182

How much more have you been paying for gas since this guy's been in office? You do know that he and Cheney are oil men don't you?

High times at Exxon Mobil
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/10/high_times_at_e.html?lid=rss_container&lpos=kansas_4_580771

Oil giant Chevron's 3Q profit hits a record $5 billion http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/columnists/15867025.htm

Think that Bush doesn't have any influence on oil prices?

"During a meeting in the Oval Office, according to Woodward, Bush personally thanked Bandar because the Saudis had flooded the world oil market and kept prices down in the run-up to the 2004 general election" http://www.calendarlive.com/books/cl-et-book2oct02,0,3791549.story?coll=la-home-headlines

And now? Gasoline Price Manipulation Before the Elections
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/stojan1.html

Posted by: Disgusted on October 28, 2006 at 1:40 PM | PERMALINK

More on Bush and the price of gas here:

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/kirby/2006/0925.html

Posted by: Disgusted on October 28, 2006 at 1:53 PM | PERMALINK

We can test his theory by seeing what French tax on bananas are, and see how reliant they are on imported bananas.

Posted by: tomeck on October 28, 2006 at 2:00 PM | PERMALINK

The readers of the WSJ are complete slavish followers of capital. For them all things revolve around the accumulation and growth of wealth and there is no other reason for being.

Posted by: Hostile on October 28, 2006 at 2:05 PM | PERMALINK

Of course, the point again sails far above your head.

The point bypassed rational thought entirely. Nobody's head or its contents was involved. Especially not yours.

The French, in fact, have some of the highest per capita gasoline consumption in the world

In actual fact, no they don't.

http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-292.html

(they call it petrol over there)

Actually, they call "l'essence". French is not British English in a comic French accent.


. Very typical of French hypocrisy, since they are always bashing us for our long commutes and houses in the exurbs.

I'm guessing you're pulling this out of your arse.

Meanwhile, the french guzzle gas like their wine,

Compare and contrast the following with the stats above

http://www.wineinstitute.org/communications/statistics/keyfacts_worldpercapitaconsumption.htm

as for yourlast flight of fancy, we all know your real name is Cletus, and you live in a trailer home with your wife/cousin.

Posted by: Alan de Bristol on October 28, 2006 at 2:10 PM | PERMALINK

"For the same reason, the United States remains dangerously dependent on foreign supplies of cocoa beans..."

A sobering thought, especially as it's National Chocolate Day. And just before Halloween, too.

Posted by: Riggsveda on October 28, 2006 at 2:15 PM | PERMALINK

The magic of the marketplace will then create vast reservoirs of crude under France.

There was a woman in the Chaillot neighborhood who tried convincing men like those serving the Bush regime there was oil underneath Paris. Where are those brave women today?

Posted by: Hostile on October 28, 2006 at 2:15 PM | PERMALINK

Scott Hodge apparently has a low assessment of the IQ of the Wall Street Journal's opinion page readers.

No Kevin, you are being either too generous or too optimistic. Hodge is just part of that fanatic no tax crowd who will lie their asses off just to garner more support for their derelict policy.

These people have reached rock bottom and now they have started to dig.

Posted by: Keith G on October 28, 2006 at 2:17 PM | PERMALINK

Here in Arkansas, we pay $.75 per gallon tax on wine (as compared to only $.218 per gallon tax on gasoline) yet we still must import 100% of our Chateau Lafitte Rothschild.

How can this be?

Posted by: arkie on October 28, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINK

Scott Hodge apparently has a low assessment of the IQ of the Wall Street Journal's opinion page readers. The editors of the Wall Street Journal opinion page seem to share this assessment.

The WSJ editors have felt this way for decades.

Posted by: Disputo on October 28, 2006 at 2:26 PM | PERMALINK

Here in Arkansas, we pay $.75 per gallon tax on wine (as compared to only $.218 per gallon tax on gasoline) yet we still must import 100% of our Chateau Lafitte Rothschild.

How can this be?

You must be punished for your "Frenchness". :)
Its okay to support Saudi-Arabian sponsored madrassas, its not okay to support French wine, cheese or chocolate. Got it?

Posted by: Detlef on October 28, 2006 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINK

There was a woman in the Chaillot neighborhood who tried convincing men like those serving the Bush regime there was oil underneath Paris. Where are those brave women today?
Posted by: Hostile on October 28, 2006 at 2:15 PM |

Was she mad?

Posted by: ither on October 28, 2006 at 2:34 PM | PERMALINK

Was she mad?

Just a little pissed.

Posted by: Disputo on October 28, 2006 at 2:35 PM | PERMALINK

Scott Hodge apparently has a low assessment of the IQ of the Wall Street Journal's opinion page readers. The editors of the Wall Street Journal opinion page seem to share this assessment. I wonder if their readers know this

Kevin, tsk, tsk, tsk. You're writing for a Leftist audience here and it's well known that Leftists don't believe in IQ, so your quote above is simply jibber-jabber.

Posted by: TangoMan on October 28, 2006 at 2:37 PM | PERMALINK

Never mind the Gouda; I'm waiting for those great Indian mangos we get in exchange for letting them go "nucular".

Posted by: Hedley Lamarr on October 28, 2006 at 3:12 PM | PERMALINK

Gen. Pace, seemingly, recommends all US troops remove from Baghdad,


http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/28/withdraw-all-troops-baghdad/

Posted by: cld on October 28, 2006 at 3:20 PM | PERMALINK

Of course Greg Mankiw supports higher gas taxes. They're regressive, so they will give him another excuse to propose cutting income taxes on the rich.

Nothing Greg Mankiw says should be taken seriously. He's just an apologist for the malefactors of great wealth.

Posted by: Firebug on October 28, 2006 at 3:26 PM | PERMALINK

Some great comments here, folks.

Alan: Exquisite smackdown of Egbert, except I would have omitted the speculation about Egbert's private life. You showed his post to be silly in the extreme. Enuf said.

I have often wondered about the animus towards the French. They have a reputation for being snotty, which I did not find to be true in my few travels there in the 80s. But since I majored in French, and am fortunate to be born with a good ear, my accent is decent enough, although not perfect. So I could communicate.

And in defense of the French, my experience is that if people really mangle their language, they may truly not understand. On paper the language has lots of consonants, but the spoken language is heavy on vowels. This makes mispronunciations harder to understand, and can mean that words can be heard as melding together. With languages with lots of consonants, the listener can at least determine where words begin and end, even if they aren't understood totally. Consonants serve to "anchor" the ear.

Case in point. I was with a friend at a restaurant here in Tucson. I ordered chicken, I believe, and the waiter asked me if I wanted "hairy coverts" with that. I said, "Excuse me?" I was totally baffled. My friend said, "I think he's asking you if you want beans." I exclaimed, "Oh, you mean haricots verts!" I then said, "No offense, but this is how you pronounce this," and worked with him for a minute or so.

For those of you who don't speak French, "haricots verts" is roughly pronounced "ahreeco vair", although I can't totally convey the phonemes is a written format. You can see even with my poor attempt to convey how the words should sound, how different that is from how the hapless waiter pronounced them.

Whatever. The French are the French. Their society has good points which we can and sometimes do emulate, and failures which we have sometimes did but should not have emulated. They're human beings, no better and no worse than any other, and I continue to be baffled by the unreasoning hatred of many Americans, particularly on the right side of the political spectrum.

Posted by: Wolfdaughter on October 28, 2006 at 3:30 PM | PERMALINK

Poor Kevin,

You don't even understand the difference between an editorial and an op-ed. The WSJ Editorial Page Editors are famous for printing the missives of folks they disagree with. In no way did the editors express agreement (or disagreement) with Greg Mankiw.

And you completely misunderstood the points made by Scott Hodge. Hodge argued that the government ought to tax to raise needed revenues -- not to drive social policy de jure. Hodge explained that the "windfall profits" taxes levied against the oil companies were intended to reduce our reliance on foreign oil supplies but instead had the perverse effect of increasing them. And Hodge cited France as the acme of the absurd.

But I guess your're right. If you indeed read the WSJ, we ought not to use that fact as demonstrative of your native intelligence. The drivel you write is a far better indicator.

Posted by: Norman Rogers on October 28, 2006 at 3:30 PM | PERMALINK

The Treasury Dept. still keeps track of the debt even if they don't publish it.Here's Sept. month end.

http://fms.treas.gov/mts/mts0906.pdf

Based on total receipts,the $337 billion spent on the war amounts,by itself,to about 12.5% of one year.
Schedule D of the report shows the public and intra-agency debts (of which Social Security notes are slightly more than half).

Posted by: TJM on October 28, 2006 at 3:31 PM | PERMALINK

Hodges is probably like that hygienically-challenged slimeball Grover Norquist, who hates bathing and taxes, more than he likes people.

I wouldn't piss in either of their asses, if their guts were on fire!

Posted by: The Kid With A Lid on October 28, 2006 at 4:12 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe Kevin needed to spell it out.

The French are not 100% dependent on foreign oil- they have 200 mph trains connecting to a network of transit that makes them practically independent of foreign oil.

We could do that too, except- oops! we really are dependent on foreign oil. So many Americans live nowhere near transit or trains that one or two days without deliveries to our gas stations would paralyze and possibly destroy our economy.

All part of the Republican who-cares-about-independence plan.

Posted by: serial catowner on October 28, 2006 at 4:30 PM | PERMALINK

Look, the French know what it's like to have an empire. And to lose it.

They'll be the first to tell us "I told you so." And we'll damn deserve it.

Posted by: tzs on October 28, 2006 at 4:43 PM | PERMALINK

" For the same reason, the United States remains dangerously dependent on foreign supplies of cocoa beans, bananas, . . ."

See, global warming is really just a long range plan aimed at national self-sustainability in terms of cocoa beans and bananas. And coffee.

Hairy coverts? Hirsute undercover agents?

Did someone actually advocate just printing more money to get out of debt? I misunderstood, right?

Posted by: Dan S. on October 28, 2006 at 4:45 PM | PERMALINK

Scott Hodge apparently has a low assessment of the IQ of the Wall Street Journal's opinion page readers.

Scott & I have something in common.

Posted by: Brautigan on October 28, 2006 at 5:01 PM | PERMALINK

The 337 Bln cost was just for Iraq, however...

"Even if a gradual troop withdrawal begins this year, war costs in Iraq and Afghanistan are likely to rise by an additional $371 billion during the phaseout, the report said, citing a Congressional Budget Office study. When factoring in costs of the war in Afghanistan, the $811 billion total for both wars would have far exceeded the inflation-adjusted $549 billion cost of the Vietnam War. 'The costs are exceeding even the worst-case scenarios'" said Rep. John M. Spratt Jr. (S.C.), the ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/26/AR2006042601601.html

More on the Bush budget crunch
http://www.cbpp.org/2-6-06bud.htm

On the subject of gas prices, when they were high, the media trumpeted how that would hurt Bush. Now, they are low and I've missed the headlines that said that would help Bush. Or just maybe no headline read that way- is that possible

Gosh mhr, even Bush admited it as you saw above. Again, "During a meeting in the Oval Office, according to Woodward, Bush personally thanked Bandar because the Saudis had flooded the world oil market and kept prices down in the run-up to the 2004 general election" http://www.calendarlive.com/books/cl-et-book2oct02,0,3791549.story?coll=la-home-headlines

But just to please you I'll give you one. Feel free to do a search for more.

Be wary of Bush's gas price tinkering
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061013/OPINION01/610130313/1008

Posted by: Disgusted on October 28, 2006 at 5:10 PM | PERMALINK

Oh all right here's another story for ya mhr,

Bush's poll numbers up
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/29/bush.poll/index.html

An easing of public concern over gasoline prices also appeared to have contributed to the upward bump in Bush's poll numbers.

Posted by: Disgusted on October 28, 2006 at 5:19 PM | PERMALINK

Even higher gas taxes in Canada, yet we are the largest exporter of crude oil to the U.S.
Oops.
Taxes go to general revenue, so roads are still crap-although we do get some federal funding for transit just before an election....

Posted by: doug r on October 28, 2006 at 5:47 PM | PERMALINK

I suppose it is too much to expect a conservative, especialy the president of the Tax foundation, to use logic. Why would they start now?

Here is the trend...

(the politican starts): We want to discourage consumption of oil for all kinds of good reasons.
(the electorate): Good idea!
(the economist responds): Higher prices should discourage consumption of oil.
(Politician, electorate, economists): Therefore, we should raise the price of oil by imposing taxes!

Hodge's twisty little anti-tax conservative mind is appalled by this terrible threat! He grabs for something, anything, that has the outward appearance of a counter-argument. And thus: The French have raised taxes on oil...and they still consume foreign oil. Therefore, raising the price of oil through taxes does not work! People still consume oil.

voila! Through the magic of conservative reasoning, "reducing consumption" is reframed into "eliminating consumption," and the anti-tax conservative can attack 'raising taxes" as "not working".

It looks like an argument but it smells like dogma.

Posted by: PTate in MN on October 28, 2006 at 5:53 PM | PERMALINK

Dot, I'm not jewish and I have such contempt for the French.

Posted by: lee on October 28, 2006 at 6:01 PM | PERMALINK

the germans call it benzine

Posted by: mr maki mmmkaayyy on October 28, 2006 at 6:06 PM | PERMALINK

the germans have contemt for frenchies

Posted by: mr maki mmmkaayyy on October 28, 2006 at 6:08 PM | PERMALINK

ColoZ: "Actually, this is a valid point. They should drop their gas taxes to zero, and let the market take over. The magic of the marketplace will then create vast reservoirs of crude under France."

Brilliant! Brilliant!

Posted by: The Two Annoying Guinness Stout Cartoon Characters on October 28, 2006 at 6:26 PM | PERMALINK

cheese surrender monkey?

egbert must be jewish.

Only Jews have such contempt for the French

Dot,

My boss is a French Jew. I guess he must have contempt for himself.

Posted by: Randy Paul on October 28, 2006 at 6:30 PM | PERMALINK

The Cubans just found a hundred million barrels. What's their gas tax?

Posted by: B on October 28, 2006 at 6:36 PM | PERMALINK

The French pay for the national health care though their taxed gasoline prices and their vehicles are very small and thrifty looking.

I've found it interesting that foreign automakers have really embaced fuel cell technology, but in American, Ford and GM seem to perfer lay-offs and filing bankruptcy, and have an utter lack of vision.

Strange that the US is taking a back seat in technology while letting the rest of world surpass American ingenuity, but you know conservatives, they don't like change and they prefer banana republics and not democracy.

Posted by: Cheryl on October 28, 2006 at 6:43 PM | PERMALINK

keep supporting those cheese eating surrender monekys.

This, then, must be the cheese-eating surrender monkey house.

Une espces de cretin, bien sr.

Posted by: Davis X. Machina on October 28, 2006 at 7:03 PM | PERMALINK

Busted link.

It's hard to type when you're angry...

Posted by: Davis X. Machina on October 28, 2006 at 7:05 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin,

I can feel your pain.

Posted by: Bill Clinton on October 28, 2006 at 7:17 PM | PERMALINK

Sure, raise tax taxes. When the Democrats take over in DC all taxes will be raised.

Of course, they will, sooner or later.
Your Dear Leader right now is borrowing money from foreign countries like theres no tomorrow. Like paying for his wars in Asia. Sooner or later youll have to pay it back.
I certainly understand why you want Democrats to win the next election. Cowards dont want to pay for their own failures, right? Much easier to leave a mess and blame it on their successors.

Posted by: Detlef on October 28, 2006 at 7:40 PM | PERMALINK

Egbert: The French, in fact, have some of the highest per capita gasoline (they call it petrol over there) consumption in the world.

Gallons of gasoline consumed per capita per year:

France 75
US 444

Posted by: anandine on October 28, 2006 at 8:16 PM | PERMALINK

One of the fallacies made by critics of a specific tax is to mix together the issue of adding more total taxes with the correct issue of getting a given dollar of revenue from source A versus source B. You can see that in the letters too (some of which have such a crafted, iconic sound that I think they are plants...)

Posted by: Neil' on October 28, 2006 at 8:35 PM | PERMALINK

PS Norman Rogers: trying to get a reduction in use of oil would be a national economic survival policy, not a mere "social policy de jure", to use a trite and inappropriate clich. "Wanker." BTW, the best way to reduce dependence on imported oil is a per BBL tax on it, not a tax at the consumer end on whatever gasoline is pumped.

Posted by: Neil' on October 28, 2006 at 8:39 PM | PERMALINK
all the Hollywood and Manhattan elites will continue to jet around in their private fleets while the "little people" put their faith in wind power. mhr at 4:15 PM
Thanx for all the deficits from Bush's tax cuts. They are great tax increases to future generations and the interest on the debt alone funds the Chinese military spending. their space program, and much of their development. Let's hope they don't decide to come over here for a pay raise.

In Fiscal Year 2006, the U. S. Government spent $406 Billion of your money on interest payments* to the holders of the National Debt.

Military spending: People's Republic of China $90.0 billion (high estimate)

Your Republican elites do themselves with all creature comforts when it comes to travel.

Travel by Congress often paid privately
By Jim Drinkard, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON Members of Congress have taken $16 million in privately financed trips since 2000, and more than half were sponsored by non-profit groups that don't have to disclose who is providing the money, a study out today says.
It found that $8.8 million of the travel expenses were paid for by tax-exempt and other groups whose funding sources aren't public. DeLay is under fire in part because one such group, the National Center for Public Policy Research, paid for a trip to Britain in 2000 that may have been at least partly paid for by a lobbyist, which is against House rules.

Sweet it is to be a Republican livin' large.

Posted by: Mike on October 28, 2006 at 9:01 PM | PERMALINK

"Gallons of gasoline consumed per capita per year:

France 75
US 444
"

Thanks, Anadine. I was just about to go try to find the statistics myself on the 'per capita' info. From a global warming perspective this is a dramatic difference.

Posted by: nepeta on October 28, 2006 at 9:58 PM | PERMALINK

There are no oil fields anywhere within the boundaries of the French Republic, which necessarily means that if the French use even a single liter of oil, they will be 100% dependent on foreign oil. For the same reason, the United States remains dangerously dependent on foreign supplies of cocoa beans, bananas, and high-quality Gouda cheese.

I think the point is that the French tax the oil and don't use the tax to create alternative energy sources as well as they could. An increased American gasoline tax could be used to fund development of domestic sources of fuel, and reduce American dependence on foreign oil. The warning about France is that, once the government starts collecting the tax, it will use the money for something other than the promised fuel; sort of the way that California instituted its gasoline tax to fund road construction and then started using the money as general revenue. Or the way that federal Social Security taxes are used to fund the federal government.

No matter what the elected officials say they'll do with the money, the next set of elected officials will do whatever they want with it.

Mind you, I support raising the fuel tax if the money is used to develop alternative fuel supplies. I'm leaning toward voting in favor of California Prop 87 for that reason; it has problems, but every law has problems, and you have to try to predict whether the good will outweigh the bad in practice.

Posted by: papago on October 28, 2006 at 10:25 PM | PERMALINK

afxstein: I'm 100% dependent on oxygen that blows in from off the ocean somewhere.

Probably not, if you live in the U.S. Most American O2 is locally grown, maybe all of it.

Posted by: papago on October 28, 2006 at 10:27 PM | PERMALINK

P0UNDS OF METHANE COMING OUT OF THEIR RESPECTIVE BUNGHOLES:

French = 3,oo3 cfs
American = 23 cfs
Liberian = ~10,000 cfs

Posted by: Al's Constricted Sphincter on October 28, 2006 at 10:28 PM | PERMALINK

Tell you what. First we'll double the price of bananas in the U.S., then wait six months, then double the price of gasoline. We'll see which has a larger effect on the economy.

Stripping cash off lower income people is great when it goes to the government.

Keep taxing energy production, crippling the ability to find domestic resources, and stomping on feasible alternatives like nuclear power. See what happens.

Posted by: hayek on October 28, 2006 at 10:55 PM | PERMALINK

Actually, around 75% of all electricity in France is nuclear-generated. They have looked into alternatives to oil for energy and heat.

Posted by: Reality Man on October 28, 2006 at 10:59 PM | PERMALINK

Gallons of gasoline consumed per capita per year:

France 75
US 444

It helps when your entire country is smaller than Texas.

Posted by: bobwire on October 28, 2006 at 11:01 PM | PERMALINK

It also helps to know what the term "per capita" means.

Posted by: Reality Man on October 28, 2006 at 11:08 PM | PERMALINK

bobwire: "It helps when your entire country is smaller than Texas."

But not by all that much, size-wise. Population-wise, though, there's no contest.

France is the third largest country in Europe (after Russia and Ukraine), and is 210,668 square miles in area. By contrast, Texas is 268,601 square miles in area (and about two-thirds of that is tumbleweed territory).

However, France's population is about 61 million, or about three times that of Texas.

My sister lives just outside of Nice in Provence, and because gasoline prices have always been rather high in Europe, her family consolidates their errands, i.e, no quick runs to the 7-11 for a pack of cigarettes or a Coke. Further, I have observed from my visits there that Europeans far more likely than Americans to buy cars that are much more economical and fuel-efficient.

That, of course, could well change, and may already be. If our prices were like theirs, I would wager that our gasoline consumption per capita would drop fairly substantially.

Posted by: Donal from Hawaii on October 28, 2006 at 11:45 PM | PERMALINK

It helps when your entire country is smaller than Texas.

And just wtf is that supposed to mean? Do people drive from one side of Texas to the other just to buy smokes, driving up that per capita consumption? Or do Texans manage to shop and work in a fairly local area like the rest of the non-retarded people on the planet?

And on the flip side, France is not a fucking island, despite what your piss-poor American knowledge of geography might have you believe. France may be smaller than Texas, but EURASIA isn't, and you can drive from France and just keep driving and driving and driving and you won't fall off the edge of the world. The opportunity for the per capita usage of gasoline by the French to be high is fairly unbounded, genius.

Posted by: froggity frog mcFrog on October 28, 2006 at 11:58 PM | PERMALINK

In addition, France has a far better rail transportation system than Texas.

Several years ago, there was an effort to build fast and efficient rail systems in the Golden Triangle. However, Boeing poured in a ton of money to stop that endeavor. One reason, Southwest Airlines bought only Boeing 737s instead of MD 80s and 90s. This was before McDonald-Douglas was bought by Boeing.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on October 29, 2006 at 9:48 AM | PERMALINK

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Posted by: mmf铃声 on October 29, 2006 at 10:14 AM | PERMALINK

Real RDW is quite happy gas taxes will NOT be raised. Despite the presence of a major cartel the markets still work fine. There is a massive global surge in investment in oil and gas and we have plenty of it. In addition we have the tar sands our Canadian friends are now exploiting (and destroying Kyoto) as well as investments in clean coal, nuclear, shale oil, wind, solar and fuel cells.

The irony of this recent surge in prices is there was no talk of tax increases or massive investments in solar and wind versus nuclear and clean coal. The energy bill was notable for how little it did and leaving markets work their magic. Nuclear was dead in the US and now a dozen plants are working through the permit process.

France is actually quite impressive in this regard in getting 80% of their electricity from nuclear. They have also been quite consistent in continuing to invest and will get an economic boost investing thoughout the world. I doubt many libs are thrilled about nuclear but it is perfect in terms of cheap energy and zero pollution.

We'll continue to make incremental improvements in solar, wind and fuel cells but until oil gets over $100 it'll be a while before they are important.

Let it to markets as GWB has done.

Posted by: rdw on October 29, 2006 at 10:16 AM | PERMALINK

As regards my ancestral home (c.1654):

Let me recommend: "A Year in the Merde' and 'In the Merde for Love' by Stephen Clarke as being pretty damned funny shit.

Just finished "Getting Stoned with Savages' - J. Maarten Troost and though I like it well enough, it's not quite as funny as 'The Sex Lives of Cannibals' due as much as anything to the coup in Fiji which was apparently quite a bummer for the large local Indo-Fijian population.

Another little long range repercussion of the British penchant for importing 'coolies' from the Sub-continent where ever they went. See also: Africa, Malaysia...

(Firefox 2.0 saved 4 misspellings this post alone. Sweet. I've instructed it to accept 'merde' as correct.)

Posted by: CFShep on October 29, 2006 at 11:22 AM | PERMALINK

Reality Man: It also helps to know what the term "per capita" means.

It means how much gasoline the whole country uses per year divided by the number of people. France has about 20% of the US population and uses about 3.5% of the gasoline.

US
Population 300,000,000
Gallons/year 133,050,000,000
Gallons per capita 444

France
Population 61,000,000
Gallons/year 4,535,000,000
Gallons per capita 75

California Energy Commission

Posted by: anandine on October 29, 2006 at 11:46 AM | PERMALINK

screwed up the link

http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/statistics/gasoline_consumption_country.php

Posted by: anandine on October 29, 2006 at 11:47 AM | PERMALINK

egbert:The French, in fact, have some of the highest per capita gasoline (they call it petrol over there) consumption in the world.

We call you stupid over here.

Posted by: E. Henry Thripshaw on October 29, 2006 at 12:28 PM | PERMALINK

The U.S. has incredibly high taxes on gas-guzzling Ferraris and Lamborghinis. And yet, we remain dependent on the Italians to supply our supercar needs.

And yet another yet, demand for Ferraris does not seem to be impacted by the taxes. The market works! Or something. Rich Ferrari consumers are outraged at the infringement of their liberty, of course. Therefore they elect Republicans to make sure that the tax revenue flows to debt payments.

Posted by: Whammer on October 29, 2006 at 1:27 PM | PERMALINK

Of course, the point again sails far above your head. The point, of course, is that onerous French taxes are meant to stop consumption of oil, yet it continues unabated. The French, in fact, have some of the highest per capita gasoline (they call it petrol over there) consumption in the world. Posted by: egbert

Actually, they don't have "some of the highest . . .," as France, unlike the U.S., have these marvelous things called subways and trains.

More germain to the discussion is though France is 100% dependent on foreign oil, as is any nation without oil but still has things like plastics, automobiles, pharmaceuticals, etc.(duh), they use next to no fossil fuel for energy generation, which is the second largest use of imported petroleum products for the U.S. For good or ill, they chose nuclear power for this.

Why do all wingnuts lie?

Posted by: Jeff II on October 29, 2006 at 1:32 PM | PERMALINK

Jeff II: Why do all wingnuts lie?


i'll bet it because they think their lies sound better than the truth

Posted by: mr. irony on October 29, 2006 at 2:09 PM | PERMALINK

"Metropolitan France"?

Posted by: Jeffrey Davis on October 29, 2006 at 4:13 PM | PERMALINK

"clean coal"?

Posted by: Jeffrey Davis on October 29, 2006 at 4:15 PM | PERMALINK

It helps when your entire country is smaller than Texas.

What could this person possibly have been thinking of?

Posted by: Jeffrey Davis on October 29, 2006 at 4:17 PM | PERMALINK

Don't forget the _Tax Foundation's_ op ed in yesterdays LA Times against prop 86 (raising the tax of cigarettes). Why are they against it?
Well it's regressive, and we all know how much the _Tax Foundation_ is all about fair taxation and looking out for the little guy.

Posted by: Maynard Handley on October 29, 2006 at 6:03 PM | PERMALINK

In the same LTE, Hodge insists that taxes should only be used to fund government programs, never to promote a healthy society or any other kind of "social engineering." Huh? Why do we give tax exemptions to churches and nonprofits, including the Tax Foundation? Why do we place "sin" taxes on cigarettes and alcohol?

And why doesn't the WSJ ever print any letters disagreeing with their laissez-faire orthodoxy that aren't written by congresspeople, foundation presidents, or Uwe Reinhardt?

Posted by: aaron on October 29, 2006 at 7:59 PM | PERMALINK

rdw: Let it to markets as GWB has done.

As I understand it, GWB has spent considerable billions of dollars in the ME protecting oil transportation, and has pledged to spend billions more, and all of that expenditure has been of tax money and federal borrowings.

The U.S. would be considerably better off if we spent a lot of those billions of tax and borrowed dollars on developing domestic fuel supplies, and if we hired thousands of those sailors, soldiers and marines to make the fuel plants and the fuel here at home instead of dying and killing in the ME.

There is not a free market in oil, and there isn't going to be a free market in oil anytime soon. The surest way to create a free market in oil is to generate alternative fuels to drive the price of oil so low that it isn't worth paying armies to conquer the ground the oil lies under.

Alternatively, you could let the oil companies hire the mercenaries to defend their assets. that has its own downside.

Posted by: papago on October 29, 2006 at 8:43 PM | PERMALINK
"Metropolitan France"?

"Metropolitan France" is a common term for the French Republic not counting the overseas departments and certain other territories. Its not uncommon to refer to the "metropole" (the central part which the rest is subject to) and the "peripheries" when discussing an empire or a country with distant possessions.

Posted by: cmdicely on October 29, 2006 at 9:13 PM | PERMALINK

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