And what's wrong with that?

What companies is he referring to? Any oil company that does business with the Saudis?

Maybe it's just because I drank too much this weekend, but I am pretty convinced that the Republicans are going to hold the House and the Senate. In the end, that's probably the best thing for this country. The Republican party clearly has a few more ideas on how to help this country hit bottom. But I don't think we're there yet.

From the "Just When You Think They Can't Sink Any Lower" file, Rick Santorum shows that they still haven't hit bottom:

CLICK THE LINK. ALWAYS CLICK THE LINK. Rick Santorum's just telling it like it is. Bob "Al-Qaeda" Casey has failed to prevent state pension funds from going to terrorists.

Link

""Bob Casey has invested Pennsylvania pension funds in companies with ties to terrorist-sponsoring states and states that engage in genocide," Santorum said. "Bob Casey is aiding and abetting terrorism and genocide.""

Hey, America needs to know that only Republicans oppose killing Americans. We know all you LIEberals are Baby-Butchers and Corpse-Violators!

See how easy that is?

Luckily, no one in the media will call Dear Ricky on this. It isn't like it involves cattle futures!

"Bob Casey has invested Pennsylvania pension funds in companies with ties to terrorist-sponsoring states and states that engage in genocide."

Doesn't that stupid Democrat know that only Republicans are allowed to do this?

What about Crosby v. National Foreign Trade Council , in which the Supreme Court said that states weren't allowed to conduct their own foreign policy?

Someone help me. I'm confused. That's not the bipartisan Rick Santorum that David Brooks knows.

http://select.nytimes.com/2006/10/29/opinion/29brooks.html?n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op%2dEd%2fOp%2dEd%2fColumnists%2fDavid%20Brooks

(registration required)

CLICK THE LINK. ALWAYS CLICK THE LINK. This article is really about the importance of clean underwear in the fight against terrorism. A clean diaper makes for a healthy, happy member of the 101st Fighting Keyboarders.

Gay scary brown FRENCH Muslim illegal alien terrorist welfare queens!

-N-A-N-C-Y- -P-E-L-O-S-I-
-N-A-N-C-Y- -P-E-L-O-S-I-
-N-A-N-C-Y- -P-E-L-O-S-I-

Last I checked, Iran and Syria are indeed terrorist-sponsoring states.

LICK THE PINK! ALWAYS LICK THE PINK!

If you actually look into this matter, you'll see that Sully (and by extension Kevin Drum) should do some research first.

Maybe Kevin Drum could redeem himself by finding out exactly how much money PA has invested in companies that help prop up Sudan, Iran, and other similar countries. Then, maybe Casey could let us know whether he intends to divest PA funds from those companies or not. Isn't that what "liberals" used to do?

Bonus: watch my Bob Casey video.

"Bob Casey has invested Pennsylvania pension funds in companies with ties to terrorist-sponsoring states and states that engage in genocide"

By which Santorum meant Exxon...

"Bob Casey has invested Pennsylvania pension funds in companies with ties to terrorist-sponsoring states and states that engage in genocide"

What, did he buy US T-bills or something?

I wish Kevin would say why he considers this ad disgusting. Apparently the charge isn't false. It's clearly related to Casey's job performance.

I think it is an unfair ad. When Casey invests the state's money in some company, the state buys stock in that company. The state hasn't contributed money to that company; it has paid money to the people who sold them the stock.

Divesting doesn't affect the company. It merely transfers the state's fraction of the ownership to other owners.

So, I don't think Casey did anything wrong. I also don't think this is a particularly effective ad. Few if an voters will believe that Casey supports enemy terrorist states.

Very funny, Mysticdog and rea. Casey's work ethic on this issue is deplorable, and it is clear he has not been a diligent treasurer since he failed to identify and change investment policies. You will note that Santorum also criticized Casey for not releasing specific information on where exactly the pension funds are investing money.

Santorum did not cite specific examples but referred to a report by the Center for Security Policy, a think tank that has pushed for divestment from companies doing business in terror-sponsoring nations. Santorum appeared at a news conference with Missouri state Treasurer Sarah Steelman, who has tackled the investment issue. Missouri has hired a private company to screen investments, which Santorum said he favored.

I still can't believe my state is thinking about trading in the #3 ranking Republican in the Senate for a brand new Senator with no seniority or pull. Sometimes, politics is crazy.

Well, I read the article in the York Observer, and here is what I took away from it:

Casey, like state treasurers throughout the land, both Republican and Democrat, has called on investment managers to assess whether any companies in their holdings have business in terrorist-sponsoring countries. The issue is facing Casey is not unique. It is taking place in every state.

Instead of making each state repeat the process with their limited resources, perhaps the feds could use their resources and compile a list of companies involved with terrorist nations.

But I guess that would just make too much sense.

Santorum says it is not the federal government's responsibility to release such a list.

Of course, Halliburton under Cheney had a subsidiary that did business with Iran. Therefore, the Vice President of the United States (and President of the Senate) is a supporter of terrorism -- since Iran was then and still is on the US list of the state sponsors of terrorism.

Maybe Kevin Drum could redeem himself by finding out exactly how much money PA has invested in companies that help prop up Sudan, Iran, and other similar countries.

Maybe TLB could redeem himself by finding out how much money the U.S. has invested in helping prop up Saudi Arabia, Kazakhstan, Egypt, Iraq in the '80's, and other similar countries.

For extra credit: look up Halliburton's dealings with Iraq when they were illegal or Rumsfeld's ties to light water reactors in North Korea.

Ok, I "followed the links" and Santorum couldn't name one company in which Pennsylvania's pension fund owned stock that was doing business in Sudan. The other link listed PetroChina as a company that some universities had divested themselves of because of its work in Sudan, but didn't say whether or not Pennsylvania invested in that company.

Both links simply refered to companies doing business in Iran, Sudan and China without naming them. If Pennsylvania's state employee pension fund owns companies that are somehow helping Sudan or Iran do bad things, then it is incumbant on the accusers to name the companies (or at least explain why they aren't naming them).

In other words, this sounds like more random poo flung at the wall by Santorum, who is desperately hoping some of it will stick as he sees his career evaporate.

Chuck wrote: "Casey's work ethic on this issue is deplorable,"

Really? In what way? And what evidence do you have that this is the case?

"and it is clear he has not been a diligent treasurer since he failed to identify and change investment policies."

Really? And your evidence for this is what, exactly?

"You will note that Santorum also criticized Casey for not releasing specific information on where exactly the pension funds are investing money."

Which means that neither you nor Santorum have any idea whether there is anything to this story or not, but that didn't stop Santorum from sliming Casey or you from licking it up. Why is that?

"I still can't believe my state is thinking about trading in the #3 ranking Republican in the Senate for a brand new Senator with no seniority or pull. Sometimes, politics is crazy."

And sometimes the politician is crazy, as with Santorum. In any case, that's a rather silly reason to keep a Senator. By that argument, no Senator should ever be replaced.

I think this thread makes clear that the country has not truly hit bottom yet. To paraphrase from an earlier thread -- The next two weeks will reveal whether The Republicans and their followers believe that this stage of direct combat has served its purpose of weakening America sufficiently.

How long much longer does this country have to suffer under you lying bastards?

"Bob Casey has invested Pennsylvania pension funds in companies with ties to terrorist-sponsoring states and states that engage in genocide," Santorum said. "Bob Casey is aiding and abetting terrorism and genocide."

Hey, at least Rick Sanitarium didn't accuse Casey of funding the Orcish hordes of Mordor....

Maybe PA should learn a lesson from their neighbors in Ohio, who invested their pension fund in rare coins. Which then promptly disappeared into Bob Ney's campaign war-chest.

Maybe Santorum is implying that Casey invested in Halliburton? After all, we know that Cheney had a big hand in investing in terrorism and genocide when he was CEO of that company....

As CEO of Halliburton, Mr. Cheney lobbied the Clinton administration to ease sanctions on Libya and Iran, according to various news reports. "I think we'd be better off if we, in fact, backed off those sanctions [on Iran], didn't try to impose secondary boycotts on companies .. trying to do business there," Cheney told an Australian television interviewer in April 1998.

http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/about_hal/iran.html

Nice job Paul. There are a few other things wrong with the post by Charlie/Thomas -- oh, I mean "Chuck:"

He plagiarized the AP Wire story in his second paragraph, word for word, which is typical for him.

He lives in California, so Pennsylvania is not "his" state and Santorum is not "his" senator.

Latest Phil. Inquirer poll..........Casey 54%.......Sant. 36%......18 points

companies doing business in Iran, Sudan and China

you mean, evil corps like, for example, Nestle ?

trex says: Maybe TLB could redeem himself by finding out how much money the U.S. has invested in helping prop up Saudi Arabia, Kazakhstan, Egypt, Iraq in the '80's, and other similar countries.

That doesn't even rise to the low level of a tu quoque argument.

If Pennsylvania's state employee pension fund owns companies that are somehow helping Sudan or Iran do bad things, then it is incumbant on the accusers to name the companies (or at least explain why they aren't naming them).

No, actually it's incumbent on the treasurer of a state to make sure that funds he controls are not investing in such countries (or explain why they are). Casey is just trying to pass the buck.

Bonus: watch my Bob Casey video.

Lonewacko, how many times do you have to be reminded not to troll here trying to promote your suck ass blog no one reads?

You think anyone here will be swayed by your fourth rate 'writing' skills?

If you want to earn a readership like Kevin has, you will have to write a whole lot better and more often, posting on topics that people actually want to read.

Until then , you are just another wanna-be, trying to piggy back on someone elses success

No, trex, I live in Blackhawk, Pennsylvania. I thought we were all clearly commenting on the AP story -- I didn't claim to have written what Kevin linked to -- sorry if you were confused.

The Republican incumbent and President Bush want to send your children and/or grandchildren to Iraq to serve Bush's Mission.

May they truly learn the meaning of war.

If you supported the South Africa campaign it seems logical that you would agree with Santorum

The key difference here would be that the anti-apartheid movement (of which I was a part) had no qualms about naming names of those offending corporations. Santorum threw it out there, but offered no evidence.

Well TLB,Rick is one of my senators.I read those stories and as usual,Rick is good at innuendo,short on facts.Just as he was short on facts about the entire Terri Schiavo matter which is when this since-I-could-vote Republican decided to help cast him over the side.Frankly,given his ties to K-Street and the Republican machinery,losing the election will likely result in a pay raise so he can concentrate on his own money instead of ours.
The next time I expect to see Rick in the news after Nov. 7th is when the paparazzi chase him through some airport as he and his wife return from Malawi with the dead African infant they were bringing home to show their kids.

Evidence? Reptiles don't need no evidence! They don't have to show you no steenking evidence!

From Billmon

But the important lesson (one the Ronald Brownsteins of the world will never, ever mention in print) is what Rove's 51% strategy says about the America's future. Because if Turd Blossom is right (and he may well be) then this isn't really one country any more. It's a battlefield divided between two bitterly hostile partisan armies, with an indeterminate number of undecided or uncommitted voters -- "the civilians" -- left stranded out in no man's land.
[...]
He may be losing this particular battle, but those are just the fortunes of war. They'll be other opportunities to counterattack. Karl's troops are also OK with this -- they don't really see their political enemies as their fellow citizens any more, if they ever did. As one former White House speech writer puts it:

Friends, neighbors, and countrymen of the Left: I hate your lying guts

I guess I'm OK with it, too. After all, I hate them just as deeply as they hate me, if not more so. I also don't see much of a future in the plutocratic fraud that goes by the name of "democracy" in this country, nor do I expect the hollow men of the punditburo to suddenly wake up one day and see reality, no matter how patiently and politely they're asked to open their fucking eyes.

In the days when apartheid was still in effect in South Africa liberals regularly made the accusation that investments were being made in that country that propped up the racist regime. Now Santorum lies that similar investments are being made in states that engage in terrorism or which harbor terrorists. If you supported the South Africa campaign it seems logical that you would disagree with Santorum because in fact Casey has not been instrumental is making the investments. So what's the problem? The only one I see is either that you don't believe American militant hegemony to be a problem or that you agree with the aims of the terrorists like Bush that there are American corporations in both of those camps.

You'll all be laughing out of the other side of your foot when Santorum is president someday!

I still can't believe my state is thinking about trading in the #3 ranking Republican in the Senate for a brand new Senator with no seniority or pull. Sometimes, politics is crazy."

This is the "argument" put forth by crazies in Texas also. Don't replace our senior Congressional representatives like Kay Bailey Hutchison and Joe Barton because they are so senior and powerful. When in reality, these representatives and their power are exactly the problem.

Chuck wrote: "I thought we were all clearly commenting on the AP story -- I didn't claim to have written what Kevin linked to"

No, you just plagiarized it.

"-- sorry if you were confused."

We weren't.

Terrorism

genocide

Two things we are supposed to cringe from.

Yet, indefinable in their own right, without context.

If I say I am disappointed with this country, does this make me an enemy?

Or should I just be whisked away to a secret prison?

If George Bush and Co. believe that George is doing God's bidding, then how come a crucial
tenet of christian faith is being overlooked...?

"to get rid of your enemy, make him your friend."

Our politicians have no clue about humanity, no clue about what will enable us to survive as a healthy, pluralistic world.

The next time I expect to see Rick in the news after Nov. 7th is when the paparazzi chase him through some airport as he and his wife return from Malawi with the dead African infant they were bringing home to show their kids.

This made me laugh out loud.

Pennsylvania must withdraw all of its investments with any companies doing business with Israel. Pennsylvania must prohibit all procurement from companies like Caterpillar, which provides machines to Israel in order to crush human beings and grind them into chum.

Unfortunately, Sen. Santorum does not mean Israel when discussing state sponsored terror. I hope his children learn the true meaning of war.

No, trex, I live in Blackhawk, Pennsylvania.

I suppose if you hadn't done such half-assed research on your current fake identity you'd have discovered that there is no "Blackhawk" Pennsylvania, just a school district with that name.

Please, don't bother with the elaborate defense. Dropping a few colons and smileys is not enough to mask your writing style.

I didn't claim to have written what Kevin linked to

When you incorporate someone else's writing verbatim into your own post as if you'd written it that's called plagiarism. Which of course you know, as it's another one of your tells.

I thought that chump panhandled a grand on the promist to stop posting?

"I still can't believe my state is thinking about trading in the #3 ranking Republican in the Senate for a brand new Senator with no seniority or pull. Sometimes, politics is crazy.
Posted by: Chuck on October 30, 2006 at 3:40 PM"

Huh. And then there's me, a Pennsylvanian who for a rare moment thought, "Maybe there IS a God?"

BTW, there are now anti-Casey fliers being distributed by what appears to be a fake "Progressive" group that can only be meant to suppress turnout. (Sorry I don't know how to make the link live!) As Atrios said, I'm surprised that Santorum's thugs didn't try this sooner.

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001900.php

TLB: That doesn't even rise to the low level of a tu quoque argument.

You're correct, it doesn't rise to the level of a tu quoque argument as it is not a distraction but a direct indictment of your own position using mockery.

1) If this truly were a legitimate concern of yours, you would acknowledge that even more egregious examples of this exist by the party you ostensibly support, by the federal government which your party currently controls, and more specifically by elected and cabinet level officials of your party at the federal level.

2) This issue is neither a real nor substantive nor criminal nor unique to Bob Casey. If you'd bothered to do any research on the issue of divestment (too late, no chance to "redeem" yourself now) you'd discover that about 40% of the top 100 pension funds in the country are invested in the same companies that Santorum is trying to gin up an issue over.

In other words, by Santorum's standard pension funds all over the country are "aiding and abetting" terrorists, which is obviously a silly claim.

I'm sure some enterprising person could find support of "terrorism" in Santorum's personal investment folio with about five minutes and access to Google.

Hey, maybe that's how you could redeem yourself.

"The K Street project is purely to make sure we have qualified applicants for positions that are in town. From my perspective, it's a good government thing." - GOP Sen. Rick Santorum NOV-2005

"Well, I don't know what you mean by Senate liaison to the, quote, 'K Street Project.' I'm not aware of any Senate liaison job that I do for the K Street Project." - - GOP Sen. Rick Santorum JAN-2006

flip - flop

adso - I sent you an email that tells you how to link.

(October 28, 2006 -- 11:41 PM EDT // link)

RNC Chief Ken Mehlman accepted political contributions from gay porn king?

Last week, you'll remember, the RNC, headed by Ken Mehlman, was running that race-baiting 'bimbo' ad against Rep. Harold Ford (D) down in Tennessee. One of the barbs in that ad was the claim that Ford had taken political contributions from "porn movie producers."

But it seems there is plenty of porn movie producer money to go around.

It turns out that the Republican National Committee is a regular recipient of political contributions from Nicholas T. Boyias, the owner and CEO of Marina Pacific Distributors, one of the largest producers and distributors of gay porn in the United States. This recent article on Marina Pacific's new marketing campaign form XBiz, a porn industry trade sheet, notes that, in addition to producing its own material, the "company acts as a distribution house to hundreds of lines, mostly gay, 40 of which can be purchased only through MPD."

....

Some recent releases include "Fire in the Hole", "Flesh and Boners", even a "Velvet Mafia" series.

more at talkingpointsmemo.com

And to illustrate the simplicity of the linking process, I promptly screwed up the one I used. Try this one.

Just When You Think They Can't Sink Any Lower

The republicans are betting the farm that there are just enough fools out there to tip the balance in their favor. Let's hope they're wrong.

Yeah, that Thomas1 sure was a disagreeable turd.

It's been nice since he stopped posting.

Sucks if that void were to be filled.

Mr Santorum sounds desperate. The best tactic is to ignore him.

Let's move on to VA and TN.

I don't care what you guys want to believe -- I'm voting for Santorum no matter what -- as I already pointed out, the Center for Security Policy identified some of the companies that Casey as Treasurer / Pennsylvania State Pension fund supported. Here are three specific companies and investment amounts (although Casey refuses to disclose all current investments):

Alcatel SA $6,938,383.65
Hyundai Merchant Marine $488,311.24
Statoil ASA $382,278.02

If Santorum actually believed this he would (1) have some shred of evidence to back it up; and (2) have brought it up before now.

If anyone seriously believed that Pennsylvania's money was going to support terrorism, it would be a huge, huge deal whenever it came to light. If this were true-- not vaguely plausible if you squint at the numbers right, but true-- it could have wrecked Casey's career long ago.

Instead, evidence points to baseless, desperate, frothy slime.

I'm voting for Santorum no matter what...

I'm sure you will.

Backwash.

Tom:

Alcatel SA, headquartered in France, has significant operations in both Iran and Sudan. It likewise carried out major fiber optics contracts with Saddam Hussein's Iraq prior to the recent war. The total value of the company's operations in terrorist-sponsoring states over the past five years is more than $300 million.

Among its activities in Iran that have relevance to Tehran's military and terrorism-related activities are contracts signed with state-controlled Iranian companies to provide data transmission and switching network capabilities. These contracts have reportedly included the provision of hardware, software, technologies and training to Iranian companies. It likewise is installing an undersea telecommunications cable in the country. Most of its activities in Iran are undertaken with state-owned partners.

Prior to the Iraq war, Alcatel is reported to have significantly upgraded the Saddam Hussein regime's fiber optic infrastructure. Alcatel undertook those operations despite the publicly stated concerns of the U.S. government that the project could advance Iraqi military capabilities -- and potentially cost American lives. In Sudan, the company is currently involved in similar telecommunications projects ranging from upgrading networks to the installment of underwater fiber optic cables.

Alcatel's activities place it on the "Dirty Dozen" list by the Center for Security Policy for the following reasons:

Advanced Technology: As a world leader in the telecommunications sector, Alcatel was undertaking technologically-advanced projects in at least three terrorist-sponsoring states. As evidenced by the company's activities in Iraq, these types of projects can introduce technology that can have military purposes. The likelihood that dual-use technology is diverted to nefarious purposes is increased when a company, as is the case with Alcatel, contracts with state-owned companies.

Revenues: Alcatel was involved in projects totaling over $300 million in terrorist-sponsoring states. Not only does this create government revenues, but it also serves an engine for broader economic growth.

Moral and Political Cover: When leading global companies such as Alcatel partner with terrorist-sponsoring states, it sends a clear message to these governments: Sponsoring terrorism is not a concern as long as there are corporate profits to be made. This message undermines U.S. sanctions and international diplomatic efforts.

Another French company, Total SA, is among the leading energy investors in terrorist-sponsoring states, including Iran, Sudan, Syria and, prior to the Iraq war, Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Its ties to these countries include ownership and development stakes in oil and gas fields that have generated significant revenues for the governments of these countries. Total's projects in these countries are valued at more than $3 billion and possibly much higher.

Through close cooperation with Iran's state-owned National Iranian Oil Company, Total is involved in joint research projects and contracts for the development and operation of numerous onshore and offshore oil fields in Iran. Included in these are projects at Kharg Island and Dorood field, projects at the Balal oil field and a 40% stake in the South Pars natural gas field. Total has openly stated its intention to spend as much as $2 billion on the development of South Pars alone.

In the run-up to the Iraq war, it was reported that, in March 2003, Total SA negotiated a major contract with Saddam Hussein's regime to develop Iraq's southern oil fields. The value of this contract was estimated at some $40-60 billion. In Sudan, the company has been in control of Block B oilfield together with Kufpec and Marathon for a number of years.

Total also has a number of energy-related production and development operations throughout Libya. These activities have resulted in large increases in overall Libyan oil production and have helped upgrade the country's oil sector and revenue-generating capability. In Syria, it has been the lead developer of the $400 million Desgas project. The project reportedly processes some 740 million cubic feet of gas per day. Total's oil industry investments generate an estimated 50,000 barrels of oil per day in close coordination with the state-owned Syrian Petroleum Company.3

Total's activities place it on the "Dirty Dozen" list for the following reasons:

U.S. Sanctions Violator: In 1997, Total SA became the first company to flout openly the U.S. Iran-Libya Sanctions Act. That law was specifically designed to ensure that Iran and Libya were unable to realize substantial energy-related revenues that could be used to advance those countries sponsorship of terrorism. Once Total SA ignored the law with impunity, a flood of foreign companies rushed to enter the energy market of those countries.

frothy slime? Santorum? You don't say.

Hey Chuck, got any mutual funds? I bet you're aiding and abetting genocide, terrorism, and probably sex slavery in the CNMI.

I've been into bonds lately.

If the Republicans lose the House or the Senate or both, they will provide another piece of evidence to support the proposition that ultra nationalistic and religious parties may manage to get a majority of vote in a demcracy, but their hold on power cannot last very long, as their core beliefs are inherently unsuitable for a democratic country.

There is some other evidence in recent history that suggests that this is indeed the case.

I'm voting for Santorum no matter what

Well, since you're not a Pennsylvania resident that would be conspiracy to commit voter fraud, easily proved by providing a DA with an IP address. Maybe Kevin could help out.

Also, I'm glad my link to the "Divest Terror" site provided you with some fun reading on Alcatel, but once again protocol demands a cite to attribute authorship, as you've plagiarized yet again.

And etiquette suggests you acknowledge me for posting the link, not that I stand on that sort of thing. It's just good manners.

A Norwegian oil company, a Korean shipper, and a French hi-tech manufacturer? This is what the fool is referring to?

If he'd bother to check, he'd have discovered that Casey is not the pension fund director. He's only an ex-officio member of the board. Go look up ex- officio before you make any more inane comments, wackjobs. In short, he doesn't pick the investments, nor does he manage the fund.

Ricky's got nothing, and is desperate.

This is nowhere near the level of Dick Cheney and Halliburton's dealings with Iran and Libya.

Well, since you're not a Pennsylvania resident that would be conspiracy to commit voter fraud,

Stating an intent to commit a crime is not "conspiracy".

Its just stupid.

Sen. Jon Kyle attended my spouse's big box nondenominational church yesterday. She said he stood right next her and that everyone applauded when the priest introduced him.

He had to sit through a sermon about love.

Can there be any more demonstration of the desperation this fucking war pig must be feeling?

This is definitely Thomas, in "good behavior mode."

Bob

I am registered to vote legally, ....
Posted by: Chuck on October 30, 2006 at 6:40 PM | PERMALINK

LOL . . . lifelong Democrat, right? bwahahaha!

Of course, our impotent Vice President, “Limp” Dick Cheney did business with
Iraq and Saddam Hussein when he was CEO of Halliburton and Halliburton also has done business with Iran, both during and after Cheney was CEO. Also, Donny Rumsfeld helped sell North Korea nuclear reactors. So, most of Bush’s cabinet is guilty of treason and should be sent to the gallows.

Then of course, we have our dumbass President, feting the friggin’ Taliban, when he was governor of Texas. And Slick Rick Santorum is all wrapped around the axle over some pension fund Bob Casey may or may not have had knowledge of? Is there any form of slime lower than these people??

Is there any form of slime lower than these people??

Yes, their enablers.

trex: I just called around, and I have received confirmation that I am not the Treasurer of Pennsylvania. Nor do I manage funds for any other states.

And, in any case, my position on the matter isn't what's at issue.

While it's certainly interesting that the type of people who would in the past have encouraged divestment from South African companies are now papering over investments in companies doing business with Sudan, that doesn't really matter that much.

The real questions involve whether PA invests in such companies and what steps if any they're taking to divest.

==
A tough question for Bob Casey

The real questions involve whether PA invests in such companies and what steps if any they're taking to divest.

No, that's just your framing of the issue for convenient political purposes. The "real questions" are much more difficult and complex.

"Such companies" as Pennsylvania pension funds are investing in most likely include the largest global conglomerates, who do business in countries all over the world. The fact that a company like Alcatel or AT&T for that matter may, in addition to all its business elsewhere, do business in a country with a hostile government is not necessarily by itself a reason to divest those holdings. We're not talking about Iranian Power and Light, we're talking about multi-national corporations in the age of globalization, some of them American, that are probably bringing a healthy return on investment, which is why the lion's share of funds in the country hold them in their portfolios.

If Verizon, for instance, had holdings in Tehran that represented a tiny percentage of its business, would that be a reason to rid a fund of their stock? If you say "yes" then be prepared for a lot of American corporations to take a hit in their stock value.

The operant theory behind the divestment strategy is that once companies pull their money out of bad countries, the regimes will fall or be forced to modernize -- the "Libya theory." The problem with that theory is that there's no guarantee it will work. Threatened regimes often become more repressive and failed regimes sometimes produce worse governments when simple diplomacy could have worked wonders. On the other hand, investing in poor countries and building trade relations with them can be a good way to bring about the very changes in human rights and foreign policy that we hope to see.

So while it may be a useful distraction in a political campaign it's not an easy issue. And if the real goal is to get companies to cease doing business with regimes we don't like then it's easy enough to pressure them in ways that don't invite risk into pension funds that retired workers depend on for survival.

So to reiterate, this is not a "tough question" for Bob Casey as much as you'd like it to be because it is commonplace practice for pension funds in this country to be invested in multi-national corporations. This is happening in all fifty states, which is the very complaint of the "Divest Terror" group.

If this is a tough question for Casey, who's several levels removed from the practice, then it's a lot tougher for Cheney who actually headed Halliburton while it did business directly with Saddam's Iraq (tsk tsk).

Please insert your moral outrage over that [here].

You'll all be laughing out of the other side of your foot when Santorum is president someday!

Posted by: Wingnut on October 30, 2006 at 4:39 PM

No, when (let's make that if) Santorum is president someday, I'll be a new resident of Toronto. To paraphrase Jesse Winchester, third down, 110 yards to go.

I want to vote for the dems but I don't know how they are going to pass legislation. Won't Bush just veto their plans to raise taxes and surrender to Bin Laden.

trex: My sources - who were a bit peeved at being disturbed yet again - have further informed me that not only am I not the PA Treasurer, but that I do not represent the GOP either.

And furthermore:

...Appearing with Santorum to discuss the role of state treasurers in investment decisions will be Sarah Steelman, Missouri State Treasurer... In May 2005 Steelman demanded an end to US investments in companies doing business with unfriendly nations. She made it a public crusade after discovering that Missouri had investments in Arab Bank, under investigation from the FBI regarding potential terrorist connections...

Now, if she (a Republican) can do it, then a Democrat like Bob Casey should care twice as much.

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Tough questions for Rick Santorum:Alcatel(noted above as dealing with terrorist countries)has numerous contracts with the Pentagon.Who would have thought that the Pentagon,through payments to Alcatel,is aiding and abetting terrorism.
A tough question for Halliburton might be whether it has stopped providing oil field services to Iran.In 2003,Chaney had no problems with no-bid awards to this company while fully apprised of the company being an aider and abettor of terrorism.Oddly,Halliburton's defense was that since the contracts weren't with the state of Iran,the company wasn't aiding terrorists although it appeared to be greasing the axis of evil.

"THE GATHERING STORM" - The speech of the decade, and possibly of the century. - Wake up.

you say it like genocide is a bad thing. I mean, it used to be that torture was bad. but now, as we all know, torture is just dandy when it's the good old US of A doing it in the name of god and the GOP.

so here's hoping that genocide too will be rehabilitated as an ok thing among reasonable americans, especially when we've got fine men like dick cheney at the helm.