Until his disastrous reelection campaign came along, George Felix was said to be the favored boy of the same brain trust that came up with W - with the same qualities that made our current idiot in chief so attractive to them. Now, even if he ekes out a win, he is done as a national contender.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

Like President Shrub - big hat, no cattle.

"A naked boy ran happily toward him from the little plot of dirt. The man grabbed his young son in his arms, turned him upside down, and put the boy's (censored) in his mouth" Lost Soldiers, James Webb.

Well, at least he didn't send the fellow an IM or email before he did it. Guess he's OK in the eyes of the left.

Really, you libs make it so easy. Really you do. And I haven't even gotten started on "Military hater " Johny K.

I think the fake hoo-ha over Kerry's jab at Bush is now challenging this one for the most-absurd hat. The take-it-out-of-context brigade strikes again.

Perhaps Virginians will finally cotton to Allen's peculiar brand of condescension next week.

I grew up in the South and to "cotton" to something meant to take kindly to it. I recall it being used more frequently in the negative (e.g., "We don't cotton to your kind.").

Semantics aside, I agree that George Allen's act is obviously calculated and transparent. I'm surprised Virginia's blue collar voters don't see it for what it is. Or maybe they do . . . All hat and no horse.

Oop--they've already arrived here. Thanks for making my point, Monkey Bone!

Not sure what's funnier in M. Bone's post, that he feels the need to write "(censored)" in place of "penis", or that he makes a moral comparison between a writer's fictional narrative and the real acts of a US congressman.

With intellectual prowess of that order, no wonder he likes Allen & Bush.

if confronted directly with the full Allen Story, would probably consider his efforts to remake himself as a 'bacca-chewing, thuggish redneck the ultimate insult.

What nonsense. Real Southerners love George Allen because they know he's the real deal.

Why shouldn't non-Southerners love the South and try to become a good Southerner? The South has a rich and full cultural and historical heritage and that's why people around the world (except for liberals) admire it and wish to emulate it. That's just what George Allen is doing.

When people from other countries come to America and adopt American customs do you bash them for pretending to be something they're not? Of course not. Same thing with the South. Becoming more Southern should be encouraged just as people who come to America should be encouraged to become more American. But then liberals don't want that to happen because they hate the South just as much as they hate America. That's why the American people hate liberals and why liberals will lose the November elections.

No, the red neck corps won't turn on Allen. They already know he came from elite-west coastal land-of-fruits-and-nuts roots, but they know he's one of them now. He's proven himself beyond a shadow of doubt by embracing the worst features of southern redneckness. In fact, he's better than a native, he's a convert! After all, there's nothing more holy than a repentant sinner.

aa

A post about Allen and no mention about his Brownshirts physically attacking Mike Stark today?

Ed has a problem. One should never paraphrase the Moose -("a) Webb wrote his novels in no small part to provide a grunts-eye-view of the Vietnam War to a generation of peers who were in the habit of disparaging those who served." Jim Webb didn't say this and neither did MacKubin Thomas Owen who the Moose quotes at length. Owen wrote, "He also wanted to impart dignity to the rifleman's service without emeshing him in the tangled politics of the war. The grunt wasn't his only target, he wanted his law school classmates, and the segment of the generation they represented, to read it as well." Not quite how the Moose decided to spin it. And what about Webb's peers when he was working on the 2nd and 3rd books. Does Ed really think staffers on the Committee for Veterans Affairs disparaged veterans?

that he feels the need to write "(censored)" in place of "penis",

All part of GWB's abstinance program.

I think that censored part reads like this:

"A naked boy ran happily toward him from the little plot of dirt. The man grabbed his young son in his arms, turned him upside down, and put the boy's monkey bone in his mouth"

The phony cowboy has nearly as long a history as the real cowboy, and people love the phonies. They think John Wayne was a real hero.

Let's face it: people are flattered when someone panders to them. They feel validated by the attention, no matter how it's manufactured.

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." Or lost an election.

Once again, retardo Al's spin is atrocious. Allen grew up in Palos Verdes. This is the west coast WASP equivalent of growing up in Greenwich or some other very very white old money big estate coastal community.

Ok, so Allen spits tobacco at women, runs around with a noose, spray paints racist grafiti in high school, while a rich California boy, and this is supposed to endear him to Southern Values? How is being a charactature of rednecks bad points without the good from a California rich boy supposed to be a positive thing?

"...but they'd also kill to give their kids the kind of advantages that George Allen had..."

As a lifelong southerner I have to tell you this is wrong. The prevailing belief down here is - "if it was good enough for me its good enough for my kids" That is why they refuse to invest in schools, education, public works, etc. Of course, that is also why the south lags behind the rest of the country in everything except infant mortality and divorce rates.

Southern saying : Don't get above your raising..

Of course, that is also why the south lags behind the rest of the country in everything except infant mortality and divorce rates.

Don't forget sexually transmitted diseases and teen pregnancy. Lubbock, TX -- proud capital of abstinence-only sex ed, and Number One in teen pregnancy...

Thanks for proving my point. And just so you know, I added "(censored)" so that you all could continue to type with both hands instead of one. Guess I should have known better.

So the left wants the kiddie porn writer like Webb to represent them - so what? I am sure Mark Foley enjoyed reading Webb's novels.

Is this the same left wing group who cheered when there was 30 year old DUI arrest on Bush in October of a presidential election? Is this the same group who cheered when John Kerry brought up Mary Cheney in a presidential debate?

Face it folks, this is hardball politics. If you voluntarily write material in a novel which was out of your own imagination - and make money and gain notoriety so a political party asks you to run for office - then be prepared to defend your actions.

If your campaign is going to make a big deal about your opponents use of one word and try to connect that to an alleged racism from 30 years ago then you all ready took the gloves off.

Quit whining.

Thanks for proving my point.

Steps required to prove a point:

1. Have a point.
2...

Quit whining.

Who's whining? We're just pointing out that you and you kind are gap-toothed morons, and the American people recognize you as such.

Webb is up 4 points over Allen. That's sum mahty-fahn campaynin' there, George!

Quit Whining indeed.

This is off topic, but as long as you bring up Mary Cheny, why didn't the Cheneys publicly rebuke Republican senatorial candidate Alan Keyes actually criticized their daughter for her sexual orientation?

Kerry was actually complimentary of the Cheneys and according to the GOP that was bad and they needed to protest Kerry's words, but when Alan Keyes denigrated Mary Cheney that wasn't worth a comment at all.

The things you have to believe to be a Republican...

And they wonder why Americans do not take the GOP seriously anymore.

Orwell:

You are *such* a gooball -- and an inept one, besides. You wanna know why the "kiddie porn" charges just won't cut it?

Go check out the book review archives of some of your favorite publications like The Weekly Standard, The American Spectator and National Review. Webb won high praise from those pubs, because Webb's intent was to paint the Vietnam fighting man as heroic, during a climate where antiwar protesters were all-too-often denigrating him.

Hey guess what, Einstein. War is inherently obscene. War depictions (and how 'bout all that gut-wrenching violence during the Normandy landing in Saving Private Ryan?) use obsecenity as a form of realistic portrayal.

I mean shee-it. It's not like he's ... Lynne Cheney or anything, sitting on a sofa dreaming up lesbian encounters in Conestoga wagons she pulled out of her own smutty imagination for a made-up romance novel :)

Not to mention, umm, Scooter Libby doing the same thing.

Virginia voters aren't going to be fooled by this crap. The blowback from this ridiculous attack is doubtless part of why Webb is four points up in the latest poll.

Try again, Partisan War-Boy.

Bob

The aptly named but stunningly inapt Orwell:

Besides which, Mayberry Dingleberry, at least one of Webb's novels is considered a classic of Vietnam war literature, and is required reading in most college courses on the war.

The Vietnam veteran community is laughing at your sorry ass, Kiddie Porn Boy.

Bob

DevilDog beat me to it, about the misuse of "cotton (to)". I got your meaning, anyway.

As a lifelong Southerner, my view is that we generally expect our politicians to wheel and deal and even cross the legal line at times over money; and that "boys will be boys" when the legislature's in session and the wives are elsewhere, and a little hanky-panky could even be tolerated; but the most important line one just doesn't cross is being proven a DAMN LIAR.

Compare and contrast W's known Connecticut background with his Texas cowboy act and how it plays here in Alabama: "Well, he's lived in TX for years, who could blame him for wanting to be a TEXAN 'stead of a damn Yankee?!?"

Then the reaction to John Kerry's "hunting" photo op in 2004: "He bought that gear yesterday, look it's still got creases! Anybody can pose with a rifle..." Totally unconvincing as well as perfectly bad timing, Mr. Kerry.

Jeff:

So then what's your read on how Virginians are reacting to the faux redneck Allen vs the real-deal military man Webb?

Webb might be a bit more button-down and awkward as a campaigner than the gladhanding Allen, but it's not like he has the same kind of credibility gap that John Forbes Kerry did ...

Bob

Here ya go, Monkey Bone and Orwell, read up (though I have doubts about your comprehension skills). And this one's not even from "the left."

www.theagitator.com/archives/027167.php

And Bill O'Reilly also wrote a children's book, well sorta - He and Lynne do share a lot of common ground - one novel graphic sex, the next for the kiddies - and the White House has dropped Sisters from the 9 books of Lynne.

Al, up thread, must really be a Southern Gentelman named O'Hara. His posts are becoming reminiscent of that scene from GWTW, where Scarlett is at his wit's end. Having returned to Tara, she has found that her mother is dead, the crops have been destroyed and there is no money. When she confides in her rock, her father, he tells her that all is well and shows her the Confederate bonds which will save them. She tells him that they are worthless - He becomes upset and tells her she can't say such things and he will just have to ask Mrs O'Hara about what to do. "Yes, Scarlett Katie, we will just have to ask Mrs. O'Hara. She'll know what to do".

Al is the Al O'Hara of the site.

Cotton to?!?!?

A) We don't say that.

2) You used it in it's inverse.

iii) We make fun of people for using our colloquialisms anyway, and we are viscious when they are used incorrectly.

Here ya go, Monkey Bone and Orwell, read up (though I have doubts about your comprehension skills). And this one's not even from "the left."

www.theagitator.com/archives/027167.php

What JK, no links to NAMBLA? I am sure they agree with it too.

Since day one of Allen's appearance on the Virginia political scene he was the butt of jokes. I remember the scorn Virginia blue bloods had for his western boots, his little Reaganisms, and his western Christmas decorations in the Governor’s Mansion, wagon wheels and all. Not really the tradition of the Old Dominion. But Allen reflects a pan-republican suburbanite culture more than authentic Old Dixie. He’s willfully shallow, folksy, respects simple values and has that Old Hickory veneer that is a perennial favorite.

Everybody knows he is a halfwit. He is not the kind of man you want to run your company but he is a great political crony. That is and always has been the point of men like Allen. You know he is greedy for power but not clever enough to get it through merit. So he uses his talents of thuggishness and charm to climb the prestige ladder. You back him because his head is empty and he will rubberstamp whatever you need. No one expects politicians to have substance and gravitas.

Monkey Boner:

"No links from NAMBLA?"

Nice try, Tu Quogue Boy :)

NAMBLA! GAY MARRIAGE! GAY MARRIAGE! GAY MARRIAGE! GAY MARRIAGE! NAMBLA! NAMBLA! GAY MARRIAGE! NAMBLA! NAMBLA! NAMBLA! ... Mark Foley. Nevermind.

ROTFLMAO !!!

Bob

bellumregio:

That's a very eloquent thumbnail ... but I'm wondering if things might be different this cycle, with a disasterous war and a profound need for seriousness wafting through the culture.

An empyheaded gladhander might be a figure more suitable for a less critical time. Certainly at the tail end of the Clinton boom years, when the political climate was decidedly unserious about most things.

Today ... not so much. It may be that the act's begun to wear a little thin by this point ...

Bob

Adios, assorted right wing nut job, military service avoiding, sex hating (unless it's with underage males), science hating, America hating, stupidity loving, hypocritical mofos.

But they won't go away. They will be right back here on November 8th, spinning like Whirling Dervishes, explaining why the defeat they are about to be handed doesn't mean what we silly libs think it means...Thye will say that it is really an endorsement of aWol, not a rebuke. Wait and see.

An empyheaded gladhander might be a figure more suitable for a less critical time.

Well, wouldn't that describe virtually all of the Dumbocrats who are staggering across the finish line right now? Our resident loonybin lefty, my favorite liberal commenter, rmck1, seems to have gotten it so wrong that it works for my side, not his. What else is new, you ask? Well, your uncle Norman has the truth, and methinks you libs are going to choke on it again today.

What say you, libs? Did John Kerry blow this election for you? Did he step on his chin while trying to put his foot in his mouth?

This is the reality: There are Dumbocrats like Kerry who do not want to take either the House or the Senate. That would elevate the leadership in those bodies OVER the likes of Kerry, (a junior senator and not likely to be elevated anytime soon) who wants to run in 2008 so badly that he is sitting on millions that he won't let anyone touch.

The fact is, you WANT to lose and you want to lose so badly that you don't even realize--losing is good for your party. You still need to purge it of your criminal class and your unhinged and raving loonybin lefties. Oh, that's right--you'd rather throw Joe Lieberman to the wolves and embrace goofballs and dingbats. Well, run with that strategy. Throw all of your sensible members under the bus.

And you think the Republicans have a problem right now?

rmck1: I think you're correct. We got spoiled during all that Clintonian peace and prosperity, and politics became pathetically trivial.

I told friends last year when Tim Kaine was way down in the polls that he was going to win the Virginia Governor's race. I said the Katrina would bring into focus the idea that government actually needs to be run by people who are competent -- not just congenial empty suits.

And George Allen is the epitome of congenial empty suit. Stick a fork in him -- he's done.

But they won't go away.

Of course not. I'm here to have fun. For you, it's a hormonal imbalance that makes you drool, gag and holler at wild pigs while you slap those red cheeks of yours.

And you wonder why you're a moonbat.

No Norman, I wonder why you are allowed off the unit unsupervised.

I would love to play whack a troll, but I have to go to class. Young minds await indoctrination by a (gasp!!!) liberal educator.

Carry on, you corpulent, classless gasbag.

Norman, come on down - Understand you had 103 in your troll's Ghoul Pool. You won, Normie.

How many next month? Next year? Next decade?

How many do you need to win votes?

Kevin,

Off topic, but Andrew Sullivan has the perfect response to the Kerry fiasco. As the media freaks out about Kerry, the Bush Administration has abandoned a US soldier held by al-Sadr's henchmen in Sadr City:

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/11/abandoning_an_a.html

What's worst, Kerry's dubm joke...or sacrificing a US soldier to a group of thugs who specialize in drilling holes in people's body until they die?

Since when do we give up on captured soldiers? Just another new policy under the Bush Administration.

I wonder why you are allowed off the unit unsupervised.

This is meant to be funny? How many of you libs like to make fun of the mentally ill? I mean, you have Kerry telling us if you don't study, you'll end up in Iraq and now we have you libs telling us that anyone who has the slightest disagreement with you is mentally ill. Now, all that talk about George W Bush being a fascist--that's irony, right? Because the only facism I ever see is around here, coming from you clowns and gasbags, capiche?

I would love to play whack a troll, but I have to go to class.

Say hello to the teacher for us, and try to make something presentable this time when she gives you crayons and construction paper. Stop eating paste and you might have something to show for all of this education you're supposedly getting.

A day with you people does give me the giggles, I must admit.

Have you won the election yet? You know, yesterday was not, in fact, election day. Did any of you stoners try to vote? Admit it--half of you probably voted for Jerry Garcia or Wavy Gravy the last time around, didn't you? Or did you merely curl up in the fetal position and crap yourself?

norman: And you think the Republicans have a problem right now?

Percentage of Americans who believe the Bush administration deliberately misled the American public about the war in Iraq: 58% - CNN poll 10/03/06

check similar survey's on...country going in the right direction.....gop control of congress...

yeah...

gop has america...right where they want her...

NORMAN !

*big, fat, wet, sloppy, toilet plunger-like Bugs Bunny KISS on the mouth*

Beeeeeuuuuu--wippp !

Bob

The scene that monkey-bone and others of his ilk are salivating over is not an example of kiddie-porn at all. I suspect he knows this.

This is something that Jim Webb witnessed himself, in Thailand. Apparently, it's a cultural thing in that area of the world--sort of how we play tuba on our toddler's tummy or something like that. It is not sexual at all.

In the novel, Webb uses this scene to show the narrator's reaction; shock and revulsion and general feeling of "what the hell am I doing here?" Webb is "illuminating" a different culture and a different time.

Perhaps if Bush and Allen had bothered to read more about things out of their comfort zone (REAL war and not gussied-up to fit their narrow world view) or abot cultures strange and alien to them, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.

Sunni? Shiite? What? TWO kinds of muslims and they don't like each other? Golly, who knew!

Norman:

"Wavy Gravy"

LMAO !

You really *haven't* had an idea in like 30 years, have you ...

Oooh, duck, Norman! Here comes Patty Hearst with the Symbionese Liberation Army!

ROTFL !

Bob

Percentage of Americans who believe the Bush administration deliberately misled the American public about the war in Iraq: 58% - CNN poll 10/03/06

Well, that's a good point. But your liberal Media didn't manage to raise any questions before the war, yes? And all those Senators with the small "d" by their names weren't smart enough to figure it out and not vote for the war, yes?

You can't win an election by pointing out that the other guy did something wrong; you have to give people a reason to believe you would do things the right way. And given that the Dumbocrats have no credibility in foreign affairs right now, hmm...I wonder how that's going to turn out for your side?

Your side has been screaming about this and that for a while now. They haven't given anyone a reason to trust them or vote for them. And on election day, your chickens will come home to roost because of that failure to coordinate your message, yes?

If someone has the actual Dumbocrat position on the war in Iraq--you know, one agreed upon by more than three people--you can post it here and we'll all be so much wiser for it.

And you wonder why you're nervous about November 7th. (That's election day to you, pickle-head.)

kerry may have botched a joke
but Bush botched a war

and why is Bechtle cutting and running from Iraq

Norman:

Both my US Senators and my Congressman voted against that clusterfuck, so to quote the Devil from Frank Zappa's Titties & Beer, blow it out your ass, motorcycle man :)

The fact that we've not articulated a solid position on Iraq is a testament to the steely discipline of Nancy Pelosi.

The opposition doesn't need to articulate a message during a midterm, which is *always* a referendum on the party in power. The Contract With America influencing '94 is a myth; over 70% of voters didn't know what it was.

Why lay out a single position just so the opposition can attack it?

Dumb politics, Norman. The GOP would do exactly the same thing if the shoes were reversed.

Bob

I would add to Bellumregio's comments that Allen has a new meme and it's not jibing well with the old one that made him electable in Virginia: He's mean and thuggish and insulting. That's why the macaca incident was so powerful, because, racist or not, it was rude and ugly. I don't know if the latest round of actual as opposed to verbal assault will amplify his new image. Good old boys are polite, even if they are corrupt and not so bright.

Ah, Global, you wear so many hats - And now you are off to teach a class - It is truly a shame that so many trolls were indeed left behind, especially in reading comprehension.

So, Normie, how many soldiers killed do you have in your Troll's Ghoul Pool for the month of November? What did you win for your correct pick of 103 in October's pool, a Bronzed IED? Tis a shame there was not a Bronzed IUD in your past.

While the right wingnuts try to excoriate John Kerry, who isn't even running for office, for a bungled joke that is absolutely true, Baghdad is under seige and 1,000 Iraqis per week are dying violently and the American people are not even being told about it!

The American media clearly has an extreme conservative bias, when a country is disintegrating before our eyes, mass murder is being committed every day - all because George W. Bush and his fascist thugs lied us into a war that has accomplished exactly nothing - and we are forced to listen to our idiot president bloviate about "supporting the troops"??? He is the one who is not supporting the troops by placing them in the middle of a bloodbath with no defined mission and no hope of ever coming home.

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS - BRING THEM HOME IMMEDIATELY!

Both my US Senators and my Congressman voted against that clusterfuck, so to quote the Devil from Frank Zappa's Titties & Beer, blow it out your ass, motorcycle man :)

New Jersey, eh? Isn't that the place you claim to be from? For all I know, you're sitting in an al Qaeda hangout in Paris, gesticulating madly at the pigeons and trying to drink wine out of a stolen hubcap, you twit.

But I thought Senators Menendez and Lautenberg voted to give the President the right to torture people, yes? How did they vote on the Patriot Act and how did they vote on funding the war, year after year after year? What other contradictions are you living with? What else is gnawing at your diseased America-hating bones? As the delightful Lynne Cheney asked, Do You Want Us to Win? Apparently not--because hating George W Bush is all you liberals have.

Do you libs think before you post? Or do you just spew, post, slap your cheeks and revel in your stink?

Norman:

Corzine and Lautenberg, you simpleminded unfrozen cave man from a besieged and lonely College Republican debauch circa 1972.

I'm not familiar in depth with Lautenberg's record, but I know Corzine's. He voted for appropriations (to support the troops), but, along with Lautenberg, opposed the initial resolution.

And yes -- both their votes for the torture bill are highly disturbing. Politics is the art of the possible, not the fetishing of the ideal, and s/he who lets the perfect be the enemy of the good seldom wins elections.

Bob

And yes -- both their votes for the torture bill are highly disturbing.

To put it a better way, not a one of them has a single, solitary conviction all their own. They are craven fools who vote any old way the wind blows. One would think that a man who voted against war would vote against torture, but only a few of your useful idiots are truly useful these days, eh?

Careful who you idolize.

Yes, I think Allen has become an embarrassment. Maybe not for voters in western Virginia but in other parts of the state his antics have hurt him. Anyway there is plenty to like about Jim Webb.

What worries me more is the longer trend. There is a southern political tradition that runs from Ross Perot back to Lyndon Johnson and the New Deal modernizers that is a genuine populist movement interested in advancing average Americans and in creating a vibrant middle class. The other tradition is aristocratic and it pushes low taxes and little infrastructure with populist lip service and a nasty mix of nativism, demagoguery and warmongering. George Bush and George Allen are part of the latter tradition. It is one reason why the South is perennially poor. Webb is reacting against it.

This aristocratic government-less government of cronyism, incompetence and glorious project wars is no way to run a complex post-industrial society. You end up with Iraq and Katrina and a Gini index of inequality that looks like Brazil. In fact it is at open war with the pluralism, risk-sharing, science and smart global trade that a middle class society demands in the 21st century.

In Virginia, our state elections are in odd-numbered years. Last year we elected a new governor. He started 20 points behind (or something like that) and emerged on Election Day 6 points ahead.

Kilgore went negative in a big way against Kaine. The "Death Penalty" ads that said Kaine wouldn't even execute Hitler if he had the chance, put Kaine over the top. For weeks it was death penalty, death penalty all the time. Like we don't have more serious issues to worry about.

So, the "he writes racy novels!"--is this Allen's "Hitler ad" moment, yes or no? I can't speak for the rest of the state, but here in NoVA, it is. Allen is courting his base. He's spending a lot of time in places he should already be assured of and NOT in places where he needs to do better. I believe that's a good sign for Webb.

BTW, Webb didn't say much about the Macaca incident (except to defend the people of SW Virginia, to whom he is fiercely loyal.) Nor would he comment on the racial slurs of George Allen, nor his fumbling acknowledgement to his Jewish ancestry. But man, did Webb come out swinging against Allen on this issue! He tore Allen apart, make no mistake.

And he was able to joke about it as well. A nice, unscripted moment from last week's rally here in NoVA: Webb, looking at Governors Warner and Kaine, realized he was overdressed and hadn't gotten the memo about "no ties." Someone from the audience shouted, "take it off!" Webb laughed and said, no, it might start something because I write novels...the crowd loved it.

Webb is starting to look relaxed and confident on the campaign trail--almost as if he's ENJOYING the experience. That's fairly novel, of course (pun intended). But he's still a serious man for serious times. And Allen is just a big ol' doofus. He's an anachronism and belongs in a museum.

I'm not familiar in depth with Lautenberg's record, but I know Corzine's. He voted for appropriations (to support the troops), but, along with Lautenberg, opposed the initial resolution.

This would be the same John Corzine:

The complaint submitted to the Senate Select Committee on Ethics alleges that Corzine concealed his financial interest in Shinsei Bank Ltd. of Japan to fellow members on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in March 2004 when it unanimously recommended that the full Senate ratify the new treaty.

The treaty, approved by the Senate later that month, includes a narrowly crafted clause exempting a select group of Americans from taxation in Japan on profits they made from investing in banks bailed out by the Japanese government.

Or this:

A political fund-raiser headlined by Democratic gubernatorial candidate Jon Corzine included a half-dozen attorneys barred under state law from giving to New Jersey campaigns, according to a published report.
The Star-Ledger of Newark reported in Saturday newspapers that the lawyers, prevented from giving under the state's recently enacted "pay-to-play" law, were able to enjoy seared tuna and jicama cabbage slaw with Corzine because their checks were to the Democratic National Committee, not the candidate.

The fund-raiser last Tuesday at a posh Manhattan restaurant raised $2 million for the national committee.

The Corzine campaign expects the DNC to pour as much as $2 million to $3 million in New Jersey before the Nov. 8 election.

Other notables at Tuesday's event included DNC Chairman Howard Dean, former U.S. Sen. Bob Kerry and Vernon Jordan, a confidant of former President Bill Clinton.

AND:

An ethics complaint alleging Sen. Jon Corzine failed to disclose a $470,000 mortgage loan in 2002 to his then-girlfriend, a powerful state union boss, was filed Thursday with the Senate Ethics Committee by a public interest attorney.
The New Jersey Democrat forgave the loan in 2004, just days before he announced he was running for governor of New Jersey. Corzine, who made millions when he was CEO of Goldman Sachs, later received the union's endorsement.
The last time the committee investigated a senator was in 2002, when New Jersey Democrat Robert Torricelli was accused of violating ethics rules by accepting gifts without disclosing them. The panel ultimately admonished Torricelli, and he dropped his re-election bid.
"Robert Torricelli was caught taking bribes and not disclosing them and Jon Corzine has been caught giving bribes and not disclosing them," said Carl Mayer, the New Jersey public interest lawyer who filed the complaint.

I give the man credit--he won the governorship despite being caught enriching himself. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the Republicans punish their crooks by sending them to jail--the Dumbocrats just keep them getting elected over and over again!

Just so we're clear on your many contradictions here. Or are we to assume that Mr. Corzine is just your average, run of the mill, self-enriching political crook?

bellumregio:

I agree very strongly. Which is why I've very glad the Democrats have put aside their coastal preoccupations with liberal positions on social issues and welcomed many border state and western candidates who are vastly more socially conservative than the party establishment. I think you nailed the strain of economic populism articulated by Ross Perot and LBJ. The social progress carried by infrastructure development of the New Deal did much to cement Southerners with the Democratic Party until the civil rights era. We can get that back again if we re-focus the party on economic populism and let the more divisive social issues devolve to the states, in good constitutionalist-federalist fashion. Southerners like the idea of regional autonomy.

And then we capture the resentment of the Other which the GOP uses against the "elites" and others and re-direct it back against the economic royalists -- to use FDR's useful phrase.

It's time to make class warfare respectable again -- or at least more respectable than warfare against powerless groups like gays and immigrants.

It's time to harness resentment of the Other in the name of uniting and not dividing our political culture. It's time for the ultra-rich to fend for themselves.

Bob

When this electoral campagn began, the Republicans were viewed as dead geese. Dean and Pelosi were sqawking that the deal was done. The fact that Republicans are this close at this stage is nothing for Democrats to crow about. And when things get dicey, liberal Democrats begin insulting the opposition. So George Allen is a "fake." And what does that make John Kerry, war hero and golden-throated orator? The guy is not running for office currently but he has put his party at risk with a gaffe that reminds the people that above all Kerry despises the US military. His current boo-boo may well have been a slip but it fits in with what this fake has said before. Going all the way back to the 1970's. The US military reminds liberals of the hordes of Genghis Khan and of Nazis and the soldiers of Pol Pot. No thanks.

Oh, good: the GOP finally faxed out the daily talking points memo. I know the trolls were starting to get antsy waiting for it.

rmck1:

It's time to make class warfare respectable again -- or at least more respectable than warfare against powerless groups like gays and immigrants.

Bwah hah hah hah hah hah hah!

So now you want to make people hate people who work hard for a living?

Oh, that's rich! That's exactly what the Dumbocrat Party needs right now--a move to hate anyone successful who has decided to make something out of themselves!

Do you libs agree with rmck1--that the Dumbocrat Party can actually win elections by "making class warfare respectable again..."

I am just incredulous at this statement. Do you really think Main Street America is going to suddenly begin hating and resenting itself? Because out there in the Heartland of this great nation (which you seem to hate because you're lazy and poor and won't take responsibility for your actions), people work quite hard. They would like liberal elites to stop denigrating them and they would like the government to stop taxing them into oblivion. But one central point you seem to be completely ignorant of is that the American people respect and value the notion of a day's work and that our capitalist system is the best system of all.

rmck1 has shit on the American dream, thinking his feces do not give off any smell whatsover.

What say you libs? Are you ready to make class warfare respectable again? Hating people who work hard is not exactly a recipe for electoral success, I don't believe.

Norman:

*rolling eyes*

What a silly, silly little man you are.

You're ressurecting a pseudo-scandal that happened before the governor's race last year even began.

Jon Corzine made a personal loan to his girlfriend the union lobbyist. Some called it a conflict of interest. He apologized for it, and no action was taken.

Now repeat after me; Jon Corzine was the CEO of GOLDMAN SACHS. He's a gazillionaire. He has about as much need to enrich himself at the public trough as a homeless person does of opening the window cuz it's a little stuffy inside.

And that's why he's so widely respected in the NJ financial community for getting our dysfunctional budget process under control and securing our triple-A bond ratings.

Bob

It's time to make class warfare respectable again --

Shout it from the rooftops! What a brilliant strategy!

Bwah hah hah hah hah hah!

Just when you think the unhinged loonybin liberals can't come up with anything insane enough to pass muster, just wait for rmck1 to post something brilliant.

Right mhr, a Bush supporter like you discussing real from fake. Bush isn't fit to carry John Kerry's canteen.

Yeah, those stupid Dumbocrats never win elections, like that loser Bob Casey, up 16 points over the number three RepubliCON in the Senate!

We're winning! And I'm not a complete desperate idiot spewing idiocy on a left wing website!

And you wonder why I'm a complete dumbshit. It's because I'm completely unhinged from reality.

I have often said, Allen is less impressive than Bush. Watching him talk is like hearing someone scratch a painted wall with their fingernails. The GOP would be better off without him.

"The scene that monkey-bone and others of his ilk are salivating over is not an example of kiddie-porn at all. I suspect he knows this.

This is something that Jim Webb witnessed himself, in Thailand. Apparently, it's a cultural thing in that area of the world--sort of how we play tuba on our toddler's tummy or something like that. It is not sexual at all.

Guess that depends on what the definition of "is" is. "Oral sex is not oral sex!!!" Too freaking funny. Line 'em up, shoot 'em down

"Monkey Boner:

"No links from NAMBLA?"

Nice try, Tu Quogue Boy :)

NAMBLA! GAY MARRIAGE! GAY MARRIAGE! GAY MARRIAGE! GAY MARRIAGE! NAMBLA! NAMBLA! GAY MARRIAGE! NAMBLA! NAMBLA! NAMBLA! ... Mark Foley. Nevermind.

ROTFLMAO !!!

Bob

Come on bob, I expect better than this out of you.

I'm just jealous of Corzine because he's wealthy and successful, and a Democrat, while I'm just a poor adult theatre janitor who wishes he was a wealthy Republicon politician.

The only sense of self worth I have is by posting here. I'm smart because I say I am!

Jon Corzine made a personal loan to his girlfriend the union lobbyist.

Sounds like a family man to me. Did his wife co-sign on the loan?

rmck1 on strategy at 10:35am:

It's time to make class warfare respectable again

rmck1 on his hero at 10:45am:

Now repeat after me; Jon Corzine was the CEO of GOLDMAN SACHS. He's a gazillionaire. He has about as much need to enrich himself at the public trough as a homeless person does of opening the window cuz it's a little stuffy inside.

Bwah hah hah hah hah!

Tell me, are you now going to admit what a ridiculous error you made by calling for making class warfare respectable again? Are you going to withdraw your comments? You receive a mulligan today if you do. Honest!

And you wonder why you can't stop stepping on your own dicks.

To: Monkey Bone "And I haven't even gotten started on 'military hater ' Johny K.

John Kerry definitly botched that joke(?). However, Why doesn't MB point out the other "military haters." First, George Allen, a self-styled redneck wasn't as patriotic as your average SW Virginian in that he was waiting for his draft number to "come up." Despite oa love of Jesus, America and guns, he didn't want to skip a college education and law school)(a common feature of the redneck demographic?)and kill thoose imperialist, anti-capitalist, commies for mommy. Dick Cheney (5 deferments),had "other priorities," Tom DeLay was thwarted by a perverse affirmative action program that gave most draft spots to "coloreds and wetbacks" and not cracker, Anglo Saxon Christian men. NOT!!! yeah, whatever Tommy D. Bill Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Steve Hadley, Elliot Abrams, Rush Limbaugh,Denny Hastert, Curt Weldon (7 deferments), Trent Lott, Saxby Chambliss, John Cornyn, Richard Perle, Bill Thomas, Bill O'Reilly, and I could go on and on. Sounds as if they just love the military.

But how is David Bonior, Pete Stark, Sandy Berger (USAR)Teddy Kennedy (!!), Ralph Nader(!!!), Al Gore (not his supposedly conservative St. Alban's classmate Brit Hume)all served on ACTIVE duty? The military haters are really those PUSSY conseratives who are always singing paens to service members but somehow didn't see military service a duty or honorable pursuit. Dems are definitely guilty of military bashing a legacy of the Vietnam War stupidity when protesters turned their vitriol against the troops.

And Kerry (post-Vietnam)and many Democratic politicians (even vets)are guilty of using over-heated rhetoric when discussing the defense budget. That rhetoric forms false perceptions.

I served in the marine Corps and am currently in the Navy Reserve, but that doesn't mean I believe the all military spending to be good. However, because conservatives have manipulated this perception--and the MSM's gotcha tactics don't help--they paint any critisicm as anti-military. Even when there is outright abus such as when members of Congress demand the services to purchase equipment and weapons systems they've determined don't need or want, or the continuation of programs just to "preserve civilian jobs."

(BTW: During the war in Afghanistan, Greg Easterbrook wrote an excellent, reasoned article published in "The New Republic" on spending on weapons programs. He pointed out equipment used in Afhghanistan that had been (legitimately) attacked by either the Right or Left as wasted spending or un-needed, but that had been put to good use in the campaign (i.e., war). He pointed out that politics aside, some purchases are mistakes because military planners, being human, cannot always accurately predict future needs. But that in Afghanistan, commanders adapt the equipment they have to current demands--often successfully. Too bad we don't see more articles in that vain.)

But considering that sooo many Dems fulfilled their military obligation in contrast to GOP and conservative members, Dems should make that an issue. If I operated a newspaper, I wouldn't hesitate to mention that so ans so by a naional defense expert because he read books and policy papers and was draft age but declined to serve for whatecver bogus reason. And for conserva-pussies of my age group, I'd point out that despite being enamored of Ronald Reagan (apparently a mandatory feature) that so and so declined to serve--unlike me.

I agree entirely with Kilgore. When I heard that Allen's mother is Jewish, it struck my as the ultimate irony: Allen is a redneck's worst nightmare--a Hollywood Jew. Allen always struck me as a caricature of rednecks, and Kilgore is correct in that George always appealed to their worst instincts. The confederate flags, the noose (he claims it's a lasso; I guess he flunked that portion of "cowboy' school--what? cowboys don't have attend school? they learn on the ranches where they grew up? only wide-eyed Easterners do that?--and strangled the little doggies). The cowboy boots, 10 gallon hat, and dipping in public always struck me as overcompensating.

Jim Webb, the real redneck, is FROM Virginia. Webb's ancestors fought for the Confederacy, and Webb has family in rural Virginia. (Webb campaign employee, "Mr. Macca" was staying with one of Webb's relatives when he videotaped Georgie.) Webb FOUGHT in Vietnam. If I lived in Virginia, I'd vote for Webb because I prefer the real thing. Not some blow-dried dandy.

Georgie's sister said he was a bully (the first sign of a pussy) and Allen issued non-denial denials of race-baiting. I know he said the "N" word because in his mind, all he-haws talk like that. I don't see how authentic rural southerners could respect a man who views thenm through a cartoonish prism.

Norman:

I absolutely *adore* of how terrified you are of this analysis :)

But, truth be told, when the Democrats had a lock on Congress from the New Deal until it began to crack during the Southern Strategy -- this is how people percieved Democrats. As standing up for the little guy, across all regions of the country. FDR mainstreamed "class warfare," and of course the bluebloods called him a class traitor and reviled him as few politicians have been reviled before. But it was an extremely effective way to offer a unified set of ideas to urban working poor and southerners alike.

Today the FDR coalition has cracked in large part because the GOP paints it as a coastal party with Northeastern secular values on cultural issues that deeply divide the country. The GOP is just as resentment-driven as any labor organizer shrieking "eat the rich!" Only they're shrieking at gays, immigrants, the "terrorist" phantom and Hollywood. Those evil coastal elites, trying to ram ACLU-approved political correctness down everybody's throats.

Now truth be told, Norman -- the GOP doesn't propose legislation that hepls the working stiff. It only pretends to, while enriching all its corporate buddies as they move jobs over to Mexico and Asia -- cuz, you know, that's the Glorious Free Market(tm). This is a sucker's game for the working stiff -- and they are beginning to get wise to it.

So you can't attack "class warfare" as being against the working guy the way you used to be able to. Because the working guy no longer sees being mega-wealthy as anything remotely like he can achieve on his own -- and he sees the mega-wealthy as being just GOP cronies, tipping the scales in their favor, rather winning out through dint of their own honest efforts.

Enron, the Abramoff scandal, K Street have all made the idea that Republican policies benefit the working stiff look like the sickest of sick jokes.

And that's why so many people are embracing the Democratic economic initiatives of Six in '06 -- our answer to The Contract With America.

And we can start by raising the goddamned minimum wage.

Bob

Kilgore is right in the money, except that he probably shouldn´t be capitalizing "yahoo" every time. In fact, he'll be hearing from their lawyers in the morning!

I will be charitable and just leave the ravings and the non-sequiturs of rmck1 alone for the day--really, libs. Is he the best you have? Is he some kind of leader amongst the members of your tribe?

He seems a bit pathetic and sad to me, and there is no sport in toying with an intellectually challenged twit.

Can't you libs come up with someone with some talent or skill? This is too boring for words.

So you can't attack "class warfare" as being against the working guy the way you used to be able to. Because the working guy no longer sees being mega-wealthy as anything remotely like he can achieve on his own -- and he sees the mega-wealthy as being just GOP cronies, tipping the scales in their favor, rather winning out through dint of their own honest efforts.

Case in point--this from a man who idolizes megawealthy Jon Corzine.

Too pathetic for words...

I fully agree with Kevin. The attack on Webb's novels is stupid, and voters see it as stupid. I mean, even conservative, uneducated voters read novels, or go to movies, or watch TV. A lot of them look at internet porn. They understand that raciness is a normal part of fiction.

As Kevin says, it's desperation.

Norman:

Not everybody who's mega-wealthy is corrupt, Norman. Not even every Republican who's mega-wealthy :)

But it's harder and harder to sustain the American Dream in an economic climate where the middle class is shrinking and the ultra-rich are taking a greater and greater share of the national wealth.

And Democrats can find a fertile field by arguing that the health of the great middle class of this country (who are highly insecure about their jobs, healthcare, the cost of their kids' educations) cannot play second-banana to the priorities of the obscenely wealthy.

FDR came from old money, and was at least as wealthy as Jon Corzine.

But they both got the message.

Bob

It might be difficult, but in the Southern states (including Virginia, Tennessee and Missouri of course) the Dem candidates need to stay above the fray and let the stupid Republican candidates swing wildly for the racist pitch.

norman rogers: But your liberal Media didn't manage to raise any questions before the war, yes? And all those Senators with the small "d" by their names weren't smart enough to figure it out and not vote for the war, yes?

so because the gop lies worked....its everybody else's fault they didn't catch it or that they took the leaders at their word?

too funny

keep playing that card....

"One has a stronger hand when there's more people playing your same cards." - GWB 10/11/06

.

norman rogers: To put it a better way, not a one of them has a single, solitary conviction all their own.

"We will stay the course." - GWB Salt Lake City, Utah 8/30/06

"We’ve never been stay the course." - GWB on ABC 10/22/06

Norman:

What a *gentlemanly* way to concede that I kicked your ever lovin' ass in this debate, ol' sport.

You know damn well that if Democrats let abortion, gun control, gay marriage, flag burning, etc, alone on a national level and start talking about ECONOMIC FAIRNESS, your uneasy coalition of corporate octopus types and snakehandlers will never win another national majority :)

Bob

Although I agree with what Mr. Kilgore said, how is he not a fake liberal, who shills for wealthy corporations and rationalizes Democratic politicians' votes to give Bush war powers to invade countries that pose no security threat to the nation?

I'd have to guess that Allen didn't try to remake himself into someone who is "thuggish", but that he was that way before he adopted the Old Dominion as his new home.

Too bad for the land of Washington, Jefferson, and Madison.

Jim Webb has been a hero to the right wing for years, not least for his books. They have been telling us for decades now, "Read that to see what it was REALL like." And now that he's running as a Democrat, they get to play heads we win, tails you lose. They get to say, "Boy, those Democrats are hypocrites, running a guy like Webb for the Senate." And they get to call Webb a porn writer. At the same time. And the best part is, people buy it.

Somebody wrote, "The phony cowboy has nearly as long a history as the real cowboy, and people love the phonies. They think John Wayne was a real hero."

Read William Manchester's memoir of fighting across the Pacific in WWII. He tells the story of John Wayne showing up at a hospital ward room filled with maimed Marines. He walks in the door and strikes a heroic pose - and all of the wounded jarheads start to boo.

Difference between Bush and Allen? They are both fakes as Kevin said but Bush is very disciplined campaigner unlike Allen. We may not like Bush but he stuck to the script always, rarely went off scripts Rove gave him. Repeat the same talking points over and over again. at times, it sounds and looks ridiculous but Bush is good at repeating the same scripts.

Allen is cracking under pressures. Webb is not good campaigner but he is also good at sticking to the scripts. Read the scripts in front of you.
That's what most political campaign are all about. Read the damned scripts. Repeat the talking points.

It is glorified marketing competition. Unfortuantely averaged voters buy it all the time. Negative ads work all the time.

Just because Bush stays in Crawford to hide from the press, and his daddy made money in Texas doesn't make him a Texan. My family came here a couple hundred years ago. The only thing I disagree with the Dixie Chicks on is I don't consider him a Texas.

Just because Bush stays in Crawford to hide from the press, and his daddy made money in Texas doesn't make him a Texan. My family came here a couple hundred years ago. The only thing I disagree with the Dixie Chicks on is I don't consider him a Texan.

It is interesting, and I am sure some inveterate psychiatrist will take up the challenge and plumb the depths of Allen’s mind some day, that Allen embraces a Sunday matinee caricature of Dixie culture because he finds the romance of its brutality and prejudice matched his own native instincts.

By the way, the Dixie culture stuff has its limits. The South is a huge place with a diverse and increasingly educated population. My own hunch is that many of our prejudices are, at best, antiquated stereotypes. Redneck bashing is particularly ugly. I also believe Southerners want what other Americans want and they are not interested in the nasty divisive and corrupt politics of Republican elites. The thing is, and Jim Webb has been trying to say this, is that they need an alternative they can relate to on a cultural level. The Republicans have engineered a monopoly, but that does not need to be so.

Norm -

I doff my cap to you. You are one of the better trolls on this site in quite some time. Maybe you're a new handle for American Hawk, or Al, etc. If so, good job.

If not, welcome aboard. We need more dorks like you. It's quite evident from your trumped-up ramblings that you couldn't get laid in an Asian whorehouse with a bag full of hot rice.

Keep punching your midget and dreaming up new ways to troll. The fate of the world is in your hands.

Just remember, when you actually have to work for a living, you'll look back at your time spent trolling as the "salad days."

Speaking of salad, Al needs his tossed something fierce.

The Democrats problem was never 'over-reaching', if anything it was under-reaching, inventing doing just enough of nothing to keep their seats safe.

All in the great before-time.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein

NSA Mole:

*snickering*

God bless the old boy, eh. Truly my all-time favorite troll.

Bob

George Allen is George W. Bush without the brains.

More like George Allen is Dubya without restraint. Or Dubya without adivisors like Rove around to keep him reigned in and save him from himself.

The GOP should actually be thankfull Allen imploded like this before he tried for the presidency. Could you imagine what he could have been like? The gaffes he could have committed would have made Democratic strategist practically wet themselves with glee.

Very good commentary by Ed Kilgore, by the way. I still have never understood why a priviledged So Cal-bred boy like Allen could become a Confederacy loving, tobacco-chewing faux redneck. Ashamed of his roots? Wanted to make himself some kind of Marlboro Man figure? It's a strange tale.

And while I wouldn't have said it as soon as last week, I now think he's going to lose. Webb has the momentum, he's leading in all the polls and Allen's attacks on Webb's literary career appear to have seriously backfired. Are they to his campaign what the "Kaine is Hitler" ads were to Kilgore last year in the governor's race? Maybe and besides that, having Allen's thugs caught on camera assaulting that heckler didn't help either. Methinks after "maccaca" and other taped gaffes, Allen goes to be each night cursing that YouTube was ever invented.

As a Vriginian who's seen Allen win two statewide races where began as an underdog (esp. for Gov in '93), its been amazing to see how poorly he has run this time around.

People seem to have soured on him (can't imagine why). I've heard several people who have to some degree supported him in the past use the word "phony" to describe him in the last few weeks.

He's appears to be poking himself with a fork at this point.

The quote by Monkey Bone, and his take on it, at 2:22 am, show why cultural anthropology should be a required course in high school.

What LAS said about it above, except that I thought it was Cambodia and not Thailand. Anyway, the gesture is a common one of love in the culture, performed on small children, and is portrayed that way in Webb's book, which is good in its true depiction of life there.

But if it disgusts Amuricans, it must be venal and evil, I guess. How sad that that's what has become of American intelligence.

On the Kerry issue, Molly Blooms argument that "Kerry was actually complimentary of the Cheneys ..." is beside the point. I cringed when Kerry made that statement in the debates, I cringed at the "I voted for ... before I voted against" statement, and I cringed at this latest verbal flap. Kerry just DOES NOT talk well. He misstates, he gives the wrong impression, he botches (by his own admission). And all the while he has the demeanor of a Puritan preacher.

He can not, and should not, tell jokes. He is a stiff, and almost any other Democrat candidate, perhap even Dennis Kucinich, could have beat the Shrub to a pulp.

Kerry was criticized for not responding quickly to the Swift Boaters and so NOW he gets defensive? This time it's clear that the problem lies with him. His statement was ambiguous and although it is perhaps clear from the context that he meant Bush is stuck in Iraq, even that jibe doesn't work well to his advantage, as it allowed CNN to compare the Bush at Yale and Kerry at Harvard records and find Kerry did not do well compared to Bush.

Shut this guy up. He needs to apologize for using words that could be so easily misconstrued, reiterate his support for the best-educated troops in the world (even if that's not true--I really have no idea if it is or not), and shut the fuck up for the rest of his political life. Which, if there is any justice in the world, should be short.

Cal Gal:

Sadly, I tend to agree with you.

Every time Forbes opens his mouth, it just reaffirms my support for Howard Dean in the primaries ...

"He's the most electable." GMAFB ... *sigh*

Just. Shut. Up. John.

Bob

"But if it disgusts Amuricans, it must be venal and evil, I guess. How sad that that's what has become of American intelligence."

Excellent point Cal gal. With this open mind, I am sure you won't mind adopting say, the roles of a woman in the middle east. Cover up, shut up, and cast those eyes down. Sounds a little harsh I know, but if we Amuricans are to understand the cultures of others with an open mind, thats seems like a perfect place to start. See, I don't fall for the "evil old close minded Amurican" bullshit guilt trip.

Monkey Bone:

No, you just demonize cultures you don't understand.

Many Muslim women support the veil. They consider wearing it a form of respect.

Bob

mhr:

Because sometimes you need to fight wars.

Like taking out the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Bob

mhr:

The reason all you winguts are having a field day with Kerry's gaffe only proves how desperate you are.

Helpful hint: The only people who are wetting their pants in glee over it are *already* Republican midterm voters. You honestly think Independents give a shit about about a Bush and Kerry grudge match?

Hepful hint 2: John Kerry is not a candidate. He may have harmed his '08 chances with that remark, but guess what -- most Democrats don't give a shit :) He was speaking on behalf of Phil Angelides -- a guy down in the polls by double digits. It's not like Kerry's been the Democrats' favorite speaker this year.

It was a stupid remark. Whether it was merely a botched joke or rather a Freudian slip that revealed deep contempt for the military (hard to believe -- but wingnuts will believe anything) is immaterial. Democratic candidates distanced themselves. Damage contained.

All it did was refocus everybody's attention on Iraq.

And the more Iraq is in the news -- the more the GOP loses.

End of story.

Bob

rmck1 and Cal Gal:

Kerry has been running coast to coast helping many candidates. He was tired and could not complete the joke his staff and he wanted. So give the guy a break. Kerry also raised bunch of money for many candidates.

I always believe that Kerry was affected by chemical weapons we used in Nam. He is not the same speaker who testified in 70s. If you listen and watch the senate speech again, you will agree that Kerry has changed.

bob:

Well, he's also gotten a lot older ...

But okay, fair point. I guess I shouldn't Kerry-bash. The guy's out their busting his hump trying to get Democrats elected.

And I do think that this gaffe-seizery will backfire on the GOP the way many of the nasty turds being flung at the end of the campaign seem not to be sticking ...

If it gives Kerry that much more opportunity to bash Bush on Iraq, then I say BRING IT ON :)

Bob

GC: I wonder why you are allowed off the unit unsupervised.

Norm: This is meant to be funny? How many of you libs like to make fun of the mentally ill?

Well, at least Norm has finally admitted that he is mentally ill. Now can we stop entertaining this least entertaining of paid trolls?

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I've made this point here before, but originality's not required, right?

As a UVa grad married to a UVa grad who
has lived in the South most of my adult
life (followed her home from school), I'd
like to point out that the uncouth, Yahoo
redneck act Allen supposedly put on would
have made him a legendary campus asshole
at UVa in the 1970s.

The whole UVa deal is/was to be a "gentleman,"
like "Mr. Jefferson," who founded UVa, and FFV's
(First Families of Virginia) generally. It's
aristocratic manners (some would say pretensions)
that defines UVa.

There were certainly a couple of jock fraternities on campus where "nigger" could be heard, but definitely not for public use.

A sometime jock, I knew quite a few football players, some of whom would have been Allen's teamates. Spit tobacco juice on campus? Not sober. Indoors? I don't believe it. Coarse, overt racism in public? As I say, it would have made him a legendary campus asshole, which Allen appears to have been.

That said, most Virginia "gentlemen" would have thought Allen had every right to knock that guy with the backpack on his ass for suggesting he'd spit on his wife--even if he'd done it. Having somebody else do it for him? That's a little different.

But I doubt many are outraged about it.