Nope. Kerry just proves that all you baby butchers and corpse-fuckers hate the troops!

Way to go, John! Thanks so much! And -- run in 2008!!!

Vote Republican!!!

May be this was intentional. How else would he have been able to get 20 minutes of free air time on CNN to blast the Repub record and call them hacks and chicken hawks?

To the extent that talking about it brings to focus the fiasco that is Iraq, the pluses might counterbalance the negatives, at least for him, and may be even for the Dems.

Kevin, you speak like someone who writes for a living.

Try speaking four-five times a day in front of boisterous audiences, with reverberating mikes, waving signs, handlers giving you stage directions, cues, hecklers in the crowd.

See how you do. See if you don't fumble the occasional turn of phrase.

Babe Ruth's lifetime average was .342, which means he made outs two thirds of the time. And he's in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, funny how the president can crack jokes at the correspondent's dinner in '04 about not finding the WMD's, and yet the media demands, DEMANDS, Kerry be flayed for all to see less than a week before a major election.

Flub a joke and the media locusts descend, "put food on your family" and it's aw shucks, he's just a dummy with a speech problem.

Whatever.

Maybe what he meant to say was "if you don't study, you'll end up in the Federal Government"

You missed the part where Kerry said that he hopes that US troops drink poison and die. Oh, and he thinks Nazi Stormtroopers are better than our lousy soldiers. Obviously he hates the troops.

Look, there is no bigger news story going on than Kerry's undying hatred for the American soldier. Except for maybe all the Iraqi grade schools that got a fresh coat of paint last month.

Maybe he meant to say "if you don't study you'll end up in the media being a lapdog to the Republican party".

Mark Steyn says it best:

".....If you talk to Democrats of the middle-class and upper-middle-class and (in John Heinz Kerry’s case) the neo-Gulf-emir-class, you’ll have heard the same thing a thousand times: these poor fellows in Iraq, they’re only there because they’re too poverty-stricken and ill-educated so they couldn’t become Senators and New York Times reporters and tenured Queer Studies professors like normal Americans do. That is, in fact, what they mean by the claim that they “support our troops”: they want to bring them home and retrain them so they’re not forced into taking jobs as Bush’s torturers and thugs. It’s part of the same condescension as describing soldiers as “our children”. If a 22-year old intern wants to drop to the Oval Office broadloom, she’s a grown woman exercising her freedom of choice. But, if a 28-year old guy wants to serve in Iraq, he’s a poor wee misguided Grade Six drop-out who doesn’t know any better. John Kerry’s soundbite is interesting not because it’s the umpteenth self-inflicted wound by Mister Nuance but because it gets right to the heart of the Democrats’ “support” for the troops."

Did you WATCH him? His delivery was so tortured it was hard to believe that the guy can ever pull off a joke. In short, he was being John Kerry.

I don't believe Kerry, nor do I accept his (non)apology.
Posted by: Chuck

Who the fuck cares what you believe?

His inability to put together a coherent sentence made Kerry sound down right Bush-like. Does he think that will work in 2008?

Who the fuck cares what Mark Steyn says?

Can't you rightards do any better? Republicans wrote the book on avoiding military service.

It's funny to watch all the Republicans seeing what they want to see in Kerry's faux pas, just like it was funny watching all of the Democrats seeing what they wanted to see in anti-Harold Ford ad.

would you have put up with the same "joke" by a Republican of FDR during WWII?

Don't you have some mocking of purple heart veterans to do?

Kerry's joke may have failed, but from Iraq, WMD, Dubai ports, the class war and even the Cheney hunting accident, President Bush's sick sense of humor shows the joke is on us.

For the details, see:
"Kerry's Failed Joke, Bush's Sick Humor."

The point is not that flubs don't happen, even from an experienced speaker, but that flubs made by Democrats are blasted wall-to-wall over the airwaves, ad nauseum. I am in the Boston area and just now all 3 locals and the Fox affiliate have about 10 minutes each on this momentous occurence.

Bush makes flubs all of the time, yet he is never called into account. He makes insulting remarks about Democrats all the time, like "terrorists will of the Democrats win". Or his repeated assertion that Democrats don't want to listen in on AQ. These are foul, demeaning slurs, yet he is never called to apologize.

Fact of the matter is that there are plenty of actual instances of slurring vets or the troops - and they all came from Republicans.

Here's how this plays out:

1) Iraq is totally the issue for the next few days
2) Kerry's idiocicy takes its deserved back seat
3) Bush, emboldened, today announces total support for Rumsfeld for the rest of his term
4) That becomes the big story, along with the abandonment of the idnapped soldier in Baghdad

I really think that Bush got full of himself today, said what he really thinks, and ultimately this whole thing will have something between a zero negative impact on Dems to being a net plus.

One other thing - don't believe for a second that a possible looming draft and/or worsening economy combined with the possibility of endless war - related to the interpretation of Kerry's joke - isn't a fear a lot of voters have.

John Kerry is a lame ass, both as a Senator and as a candidate for prez. The good news is that this will help convince him and others that he needs to stay home in 08.

He has already fucked up one election cycle for us. Let’s hope that the damage is limited to that.

Chuck once again you are speaking nonsense, gibberish. And you are clumsily trying to equate this with WW II?

Here's a question: How did what Kerry supposedly said became a media firestorm, while what Limbaugh actually said, about Michael J. Fox, didn't have any legs?

Answering that is was the MSL media enablers, that the so-called-liberal media is putty at the Republican's hands, etc. is not an answer. The question I need answered is how exactly does this work? What is the mechanism? How exactly do the Republicans manage to manipulate the media and create a huge mountain out of a non-existent molehill, while nothing -- absolutely nothing, however patently loathsome -- a conservative says ends up as a media sensation?

4) That becomes the big story, along with the abandonment of the idnapped soldier in Baghdad

I won't hold my breath.

If you look at the names and hometowns of the dead soldiers that show up on the TV every day, it's hard not to think that Kerry does have a point even in the botched delivery.

Conservatives and neocons would like to believe that so many people are willing to die for their idiotic world view, but in practice it's perhaps some poor or lower middle class kid who wants to get some cash for his college education. If this was not the case Goldberg and Lowry and Ponnuru would all be in Iraq rather than in airconditioned offices in Washington kissing the asses of their Republican patrons.

Kerry has more dignity and class in his big toe than Bush has in his whole body. Much ado about nothing, abetted by a media that won't even ask Bush how many times he has been arrested, let alone question the illegal occupation of Iraq and our specious reasons for being there.

I suspect that this fits in with his general nature (or weakness, if you will) as a politician: he figured what he was saying was so obvious, it never entered his mind that people couldn't immediately tell he was talking about Bush.

In a way, it´s a microcosm of the challenge facing all the decent, unspectacular Democrats. They still think that common sense will be apparent to most reasonable people. Unfortunately, that shit went out in the eighties. Put it another way: could the average Serb still see common sense after Milosovic had hammered away at him for five or six years?

After all these years, does he still get so flustered in front of a camera that he can't even get a simple three-line joke straight? Sheesh.

Then his first non-apology made it worse. And not only that, but the actual speech was quoted favorably by Kerry enthusiasts after the rally (this is in the LA Times). Those in attendance really did believe that the military is an opportunity only for drop-outs.

This is the most outrageous thing anyone has ever said! Senator Kerry should be waterboarded until he admits to being a Cal Caida terraist!

It is quite amusing watching all the wingnuts spread a spectrum of spin -- from JFK is evil on one end to this is all just normal politics on the other -- on a fake issue.

I hope they keep it up. They'll be even more shocked come Wed morning.

Kerry's flubbed joke was clearly directed at the top civilians in the Bush administration. The faux outrage the REpublicans are currently spewing is another example of their exploiting the troops for political purposes even as the leave the troops hanging in a hellhole in Iraq.

But someday soon Kerry has to understand - he is not a viable candidate for president, and he, as the old soldier he is, should just fade away.

would you have put up with the same "joke" by a Republican of FDR during WWII?

For the record, dip shit, FDR was called lot of really ugly things by the GOP during the war.

Try learning some US history before you again display your limited insight here on these threads.

I detest Bush's boneheaded foreign policy and think Iraq is a lost cause at this point, but I don't believe Kerry mispoke. Instead, I believe he had the wrong perpective/context in mind when he tried to criticize the president's Iraq policy. My guess is that Kerry's view of the current situation is colored by his life experience during the Vietnam era -- in that context, with a draft in place, his comments make much more sense. He said what he meant to say, he just didn't think about much before it came out of his mouth. I also believe there is an element of the elitist charge that Old Coot makes in Kerry's thinking, even if his heart is in the right place. Like Bush, he's a son of privilege, and no matter how hard he tries, he can't ever really empathize with the working class.

Of course, it won't make a damned bit of difference to anyone who already is opposed to the "stay put and lose" strategy of the Bush administration. They've already made up their minds, and Kerry isn't running anyway so who really cares except cable news talking heads who need some sort of dreck to fill out the schedule?

Has anyone considered that Kerry actually served in Vietnam after having graduated from college? Besides the SwiftBoatVeterans that is...

I think it was a faux pas by Kerry. Insert two words into that sentence and you have a completely different meaning. That isn't to say Kerry isn't stupid, however. He undeniably is.

Chuck posts "I don't believe Kerry, nor do I accept his (non)apology."

Chuck, here's a little homework excersize for you (I know how tough it is for Right Wing Lemmings to think, but give it a whirl):

Read Kerry's famous congressional testimony on Vietnam - the one one where asks about 'how do you ask a man to be the last one to die for a mistake' or some such.

Do a nexus (sp?) search on Kerry's statements about troops, and see if you can determine his history with regard to support or disdain of soldiers.

Then research his Senate voting record. The entire one, not the truncated one that Freepers spew.

Then look up the word "sanctimonious" and apply it to your original post referenced above.

Then get back to us with your thoughts on Kerry's believability and your demonstrably innate ability to pass judgement.

.

I agree. No one should vote Kerry on Tuesday.

Chucky said

Limbaugh said immediately: "If I'm wrong, I apologize."

If by "imediately" you mean approx 48 hours later.

More GOP lies.

I agree with McCord.

One upside to this is that Kerry is FINALLY fighting back against the wingnuts.

The second upside is that the wingnuts won't have Kerry to kick around on the Pres trail in 2008.

As fantastic a Pres as Kerry might make (ignoring that GWB has lowered the bar such that Elmo would make a fantastic POTUS comparatively), he is just not equipped to get there.

You figure 10,000 speeches, maybe one or two jokes per speech. So, Kevin, you're good at math, right? What kind of error rate do you need to never botch one of those 20,000 or so jokes? Even a broadway actor repeating the same lines he's repeated 1,000 times before will occasionally leave out a word or transpose something; it's a stochastic world. Bad luck that it happened now, that's all.

FDR was called "intellectually lazy"?

Here's the difference... FDR: not intellectually lazy, George W: a chimp.

[The preceding does not intend to demean chimps and I apologize for any perceived insult to chimps]

Clearly, instead of shooting himself in the foot, Kerry should have shot a friend in the face and then ignored the media and local officials for a few days. Then people would take him more seriously.

Funny thing is that I know a lot of people in the military because of a lack of job opportunities. Working hard and staying in school usually helps on that front. Having the money to go to a four year party school also does the trick. For some people, like Kerry, joining the military is a clear choice. For others, joining the military is an opportunity made attractive mainly by the lack of other opportunities. This is taking PC clear up to the small intestine. For god's sake the military is loaded with people who can't afford college or find other opportunities.

And how come they can call San Franciscan's fornicators and Bostonians immoral socialists without having to apologize?

I watched the Kerry quote several times and could not tell if he is now lying. But he obviously looked down at something, which probably supports his story. Why don't they just produce what he looked down at?

One thing that makes it possible that he is lying is that his true feelings are probably reflected by the actual words he stated. So it might be a case where he flubbed a joke but stated his true feelings. I never did see video of what happened after the statement. If he actually had flubbed a joke, one would think that there would be some type of recognition and reaction by him.

Kerry came across awful in his response after the Repubs seized on the issue. What are he and his staff thinking about when they make those juvenile attacks. They did the same thing in the 04 campaign - issuing fighting press releases with high school like charges.

It is absolutely remarkable that such a lame politican and person came so close to being elected president -- it shows how far burning ambition can take you in politics.

brian,

juvenile attacks? The GOP would be a Mime Troupe if it weren't for juvenile attacks.

It is absolutely remarkable that such a lame politican and person came so close to being elected president

Uh Brian, I give you George W. Bush. Where the hell have you been?

Chuck, nice retort. Reminds me of when I had c-span on one day, and after hearing Clinton holding court & answering a wide range of questions for about two hours at a conference on globalization, the program that followed was GeeDubya hosting a tee-ball game on the White House lawn with a bunch of 5,6 & 7-year olds.

The irony is palpable.

.

I guess the expiration date ran out on Clinton.

Now behold the new Mantra: It all Kerry's fault!

Just like the MSM to wag the dog while Bush gets punked by Maliki.

Next thing you know, Kerry's name will magically appear on the ballot as the democratic challenger to every single Republican incumbant now currently behind in the polls.

Mystery to me...

Mr. Kerry's comment was a flub, no doubt. What is the bigger mystery to me is how the Republicans obtained the reputation for being the official "We love and support the military" party? Look at what the Republican have done recently:

1. Ended full support of the Afghan War before it was completed

2. Essentially made up (or at least seriously cherry-picked) reasons for us to get involved in Iraq

3. REFUSED to do any postwar planning becuause the Administration thought it wouldn't sell politically

4. Refused to send in enough troops to stablize the country in the post major conflict phase because Rumsfeld wanted to try out his theories regarding a leaner, meaner force

5. Rushed into the war so quickly that the troops did not have sufficient body or vehicle armor

6. So overstretched the armed forces that they had to resort to all sort of tricks to maintain force levels: "Stop Loss", calling up all sorts of emergency reserves, extending tours past traditional limits

7. Routinely lied about the conditions on the ground

8. The President has that it would essentially be up to the next President to figure out what to do

8. Banned footage of coffins returning from Iraq...

9. Refused to do anything to increase the size of the armed forces because it would be politically unpopular

And this is the pro-military party?

Brian -- speaking of lame, have you forgotten who the current president is? Did you ever know?

Chuck, excuses, excuses. Try & stay on topic.

James M. - answer . . . no. Plus, you left out sponoring bills in Congress to cut benefits, as well as cutting extended duty & hazard pay increases.

Slapping RWers is too easy.

.

Hey Old Coot,

I'm an upper middle class Democrat from Massachusetts and I've never said anything like that nor have I ever heard any Democrat say anything like that. My niece is serving in the US Army right now with our family's full support and encouragement. Steyn is a bitter liberal hater because somewhere in his past a liberal professor criticized Steyn's theatre writing and Steyn has never recovered. You're a moron if you believe a word a hack like Steyn writes. Anyone who supports Bush at this point has a lot of balls to claim they "support our troops."

I tend to believe Kerry's explanation. Who would be tin-eared enough to put that line in a prepared speech?

But, who knows? Poster gregor agreed with the line as delivered. No doubt a lot of other Dems do too, which suggests that Kerry may have intended the words he spoke. If Kerry meant to say what he did, he still would have given whatever excuse came to hand after the shit hit the fan.

If it was a slip, I think it was a Freudian slip. It showed what Kerry really thinks. The reason I say this is that his comment is the kind of snide anti-military crack that I believed during my liberal days.

Kerry finally apologized on Imus this morning, but it was a weak apology. He ought to have noted the high educational level of our troops. He should have admired their willingnesss to serve, even though they have the education and training to have succeeded as civilians. Instead the apology was all about Kerry -- how he was so great because he fought for veterens, so that he couldn't have meant what he said.

Also, Kerry hasn't always suported the troops. In particular, there was his famous Congressional testimony during the Vietnam War, when he accused the troops of unspeakable atrocities (falsely, as it turned out.) If I were serving in Iraq, I wouldn't be convinced that Kerry respected me.

Troop morale is the reason this is important. Kerry's statement probably represents the view of quite a few Dems. Bush and Rumsfeld have done have done a terrific job of maintaining troop morale. If the Dems take over and troop morale goes down, then our chance of winning in Iraq or anywhere else goes down.

I really wish Kerry hadn't said that. The stupid putz.

However, anything that keeps Iraq in the news (in addition to - you know - the real news from Iraq) hurts the Republicans.

2-day news cycle is almost over. Wonder what's next?

chuck,

"All right then, I stand corrected. . . . So I will bigly, hugely admit that I was wrong, and I will apologize to Michael J. Fox, if I am wrong in characterizing his behavior on this commercial as an act."

Where is the apology? I see a statement that says an apology may be forthcoming, but no actual apology.

PS - I'm an Army brat if you're looking for my credentials.

So I will bigly, hugely admit that I was wrong, and I will apologize to Michael J. Fox, if I am wrong in characterizing his behavior on this commercial as an act."

That's not an apology. The first step in an apology is to accept that you are wrong. Any statement that contains the words "if I am wrong" is not an apology. Typical wingnut BS.

Maybe Kerry was in a Vietnam era frame of mind--I believe one was exempt from the draft if attending college. His comments would have more resonance during Vietnam than today. They can definitely be taken the wrong way today.

Let's not forget, as 4xACK said, Kerry graduated university AND served in the military.

It's crazy that he can walk the walk but can not talk the talk.

Hey Brian,

he is lying is that his true feelings are probably reflected by the actual words he stated.

Wake up. Someone already pointed out that Kerry a) was born privileged, b) graduated college, and then c)volunteered for the military!

Having said that, and speaking as a Vietnam Veteran who respects John Kerry a great deal, I do hope he doesn't run for President again. Too much foot-in-mouth.

Kerry has more dignity and class in his big toe than Bush has in his whole body. Much ado about nothing, abetted by a media that won't even ask Bush how many times he has been arrested, let alone question the illegal occupation of Iraq and our specious reasons for being there.

I just heard that Boehner accepted JFK's apology on behalf of the GOP and considers the matter closed.

It looks like the GOP's overnight polling has shown them that this is a loser issue. Damn. I was so hoping they would keep pushing this.

When the Republican Poster Boy can't even say the "fool me once, shame on you. . ." saying right, then, fuck, any thought of criticism of his opponent's speaking ability is just plain fucking absurd.

Hey, hey! Charlie is now almost back to his old handle. Good for you, Chuck!

You're as stupid and irrelevant as ever, btw.

And you're a goddamned clown as well.

Kerry screwed up a joke, Bush screwed up a war and a nation.

Unfortunately Kerry still has to TRY to sound natural, and he does that by ad libbing his own speeches. We saw this happen in 2004 and well, the Republican machine had lots of practice then in how to react.

The sad part is the media totally fell for it, as evidenced by Hardball yesterday playing the entire Bush speech in full for a half hour.

Posted by: ex-liberal>>

This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Bush stands by while the Iraqi PM orders the US siege of Sadr's part of Baghdad - set up in order to find the kidnapped US soldier. This is going to not hurt our troops morale how exactly? I think that will have a bit more impact on how they feel.

And if President Kerry has reacted to this move like Bush did (or actually didn't), you'd be calling for him impeachment. Again.

mhr: After the Democrat party became the anti-military party.

First, there is no such thing as a Democrat party.
Second, do some homework and look at the votes in Congress, the Dems have voted more often to support the troops than the Repubs.

[Chorus]
What the fuck, Chuck
What the, what the fuck
What the fuck, Chuck
What the, what the fuck's up
[Repeat]

Chuck got pulled at an early age
In a pine box, man, he should've been engaged
Chuck's chillin' hard on the other side of life
Left a family, friends, possibly a wife
Chuck didn't know that night he would die
I wonder if he hears his mother cry
Chuck put his life in the hands of another
Who was drunk as a skunk, now he's six feet under

[Chorus x2]

What the fuck's up, Chuck, what the fuck were you thinkin'?
Jumpin' in a ride with the motherfucker drinkin'
You're thinking that shit won't happen to me
And then bang, boom, crash into a big palm tree
Now you're D to the E to the A to the D
Three thousand degrees of fatality
What a waste to lose a part of the crew
So peace to deceased, Mr. Chuck Lemieux

[Chorus x4]

Back in the days, he used to play the guitar
I used to play the drums and we were gonna go far
Hangin' out man, school harrassment was my thing
Larry on bass and Scott tried to sing
That's the time of my life, where did it go?
Now Chuck is gone and that's the end of the show
I miss my friend, I wish him well
I know he woulda said, "aww what the hell!"

[Chorus x4]
What the fuck!

Did you see Kerry on Bill Maher? He tried to make some crack about Bush (something about killing two birds . . .) - completely flubbed it and wound up sounding really creepy (and I'm a big Kerry fan). I htink he just doesn't know how to tell a joke.

It almost seems like John Kerry is on a one-man mission to save the Republican Congress. There were a number of close Senate races (Alaska, Florida, North Carolina and South Dakota being among them) that the Dems might well have won in '04 if he hadn't been at the top of the ticket. And now this.

Go home, John. Shut up.

Nice post James M.

I think the right did a fine job of painting the democrats as a unkempt bunch of peaceniks and protesters, naively idealistic at best but more likely unrealistic and spineless.

They also confound "liberal" with "libertine".

I basically like Kerry. Don't want him to run for Prez again any more than I want Hillary to run. But, I thought that I detected in the past 3 or 4 years that Kerry doesn't do standup comedy very well. It takes a special talent. He should have given the line to Jon Stewart or even Keith Olbermann. But, the college kid should take heed. It could get "drafty" if W gets his way and attacks Iran.

Kevin wrote: "So how could he possibly have screwed up a simple little piece of snark like that? After all these years, does he still get so flustered in front of a camera that he can't even get a simple three-line joke straight?"

John Kerry is one of the worst public speakers I have ever heard. During the 2004 campaign I could not listen to a single one of his speeches all the way through. Every one of them was an incomprehensible concatentation of verbiage: "We need a president who understands that we need a president who blah blah blah..." etc. He seemed completely unable to ever focus or get to the point about anything, and mangled the English language as badly as Bush, although in a different way. So it doesn't surprise me one bit that he would "botch" a joke.

Meanwhile, let the idiotic script-reciting trolls like "mhr" enjoy this while they can, before their beloved Republican Party goes down to a historic and ignominious defeat next Tuesday, drowning in the cesspool of its own blatant corruption and criminality, and George W. Bush becomes the lamest lame duck who ever quacked.

Kevin Drum said:

Here's the thing. I believe Kerry...

I think right there is where the problem is. You don't have to go any further.

I know lots of republicans who like to rave about how the military is such a great options for people who screw up as teenagers and young adults.

But not this week I suppose.

Really though this whole thing is a good example of the worst excesses of political correctness. Even Kerry's flub is reasonably accurate. Lots of people who don't do too well in school for whatever reason join the military (I have two aquaintences who did so). That option is considerably less appealing with Bush getting soldiers killed in the Iraqi civil war he started.

The real joke was funnier and more accurate, however.

If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq." Chuckles 6:30 PM

…Limbaugh is a private citizen. … Chuckles at 6:34 PM

…Bush and Rumsfeld have done have done a terrific job of maintaining troop morale. … ex-liberal at 7:00 PM

…But whatever the numbers say, the strain is showing. Capt. John Grauer, the 4-23's chaplain, describes the scene when the order came down: "There was a rush of soldiers trying to get on the phone to call home. Some literally threw up when they heard the news. Some were extremely angry ...

Also from the Rush interview
President Bush talking to Rush Limbaugh this afternoon about you know what:
"Anybody who is in a position to serve this country ought to understand the consequences of words..."
Irony is not dead

Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey (R-TX):
On the October 31 edition of MSNBC's Hardball, Armey said of the attacks on Kerry's remarks, "Well, it's pretty standard fare in political discourse. You misconstrue what somebody said. You isolate a statement, you lend your interpretation to it and then feign moral outrage." When host Chris Matthews stated that Kerry "was trashing Bush," Armey responded, "Right," and went on to say, "A fundamental premise of politics is we can make this work if people just never figure it out."

Here is the appology Kerry should have given:

"I am sorry the president is too thick and slow to get a joke that was clearly directed at him and his incompetent military advisors."

Kerry did something like this virtually every day during the 2004 campaign: he insists on riffing off his prepared text presumably because Clinton always did, but he doesn't know how and half the time forgets what point he's trying to make. How can anybody not believe? But please don't let him run for president again...

So, Kerry did not apologize then either?

No. Kerry apologized:

"I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member, or American who was offended," he said in a written statement.

Limbaugh did not then:

"All right then, I stand corrected. . . . So I will bigly, hugely admit that I was wrong, and I will apologize to Michael J. Fox, if I am wrong in characterizing his behavior on this commercial as an act."

and later:

Okay, I need to apologize, I was wrong because I speculated either he didn't take his medication or he was acting. I never said the word faking. But I was wrong. He did take his medications. Now he took too much medication... The point is, he did something differently to appear in this ad than when he appears on Boston Legal. And that was my first human reaction. "Whoa! I've never seen this. I have not seen this before." Now I gather, from the past three days, that we are to believe that this is the normal condition that poor Mr. Fox has to live with each and every day.

Compare and contrast Chuck. One is a sincere apology (hint: its the one that says "I sincerely regret..." and "I personally apologize..."), not the one that says "I apologize" for saying he took no medication when he took too much.

Where is the regret, where is the explicit sincerity in Limbaugh? Nowhere.

Bush stands by while the Iraqi PM orders the US siege of Sadr's part of Baghdad - set up in order to find the kidnapped US soldier. This is going to not hurt our troops morale how exactly? I think that will have a bit more impact on how they feel.

And if President Kerry has reacted to this move like Bush did (or actually didn't), you'd be calling for him impeachment. Again.

I don't like our situation in Iraq. Now that Maliki is elected, we're in Iraq at the invitation of his government. We have to follow his requests. If he asks us to leave, we have to leave.

But, I don't trust him. He seems to be in al Sadr's pocket. It's hard to know what to do next. We need to get Maliki to ask us to do the things necessary to defeat the insurgency.

At one time it seemed like a good idea to encourage the formation of an elected constitututional government. We accomplished that, but it's not working. With the Maliki government in place, we have fewer options. We can't just ignore them or overthrow them. So, Bush's strategy of encouraging democracy now seems to have been a mistake.

But, I don't understand the impeachment talk. Administrations make mistakes in wars, but that's not what impeachment is about. Following a wrong war strategy doesn't fit the definition of "high crimes and misdemeanors."

Posted by: hopeless pedant

Mike, you can always find anecdotes demonstrating happy troops or unhappy troops. The high troop morale is proved by the high re-enlistment rates.

Has anyone commenting on Kerry's poorly worded joke even watched the entire clip? It was perfectly obvious in the context of his prior 'humorous' comments that Kerry was trying to refer to President Bush as the dope who got us stuck in Iraq (ok, Kerry can't tell a joke, but how many lame jokes have you watched executive speakers try to tell?). It's one thing for the hack machine to deliberately misinterpret his words, but Keith Olbermann nailed it last night: the very act of misinterpretation suggests that Bush is too stupid to understand that Kerry is calling him stupid. Why oh why do good-hearted liberals constantly fall for this deliberate misdirection?

The high troop morale is proved by the high re-enlistment rates.

LMAO. Yes, yes, re-enlistment rates certainly tell the whole story.

what happened to freedom of speech?
Why must one simply stating their opinion be forced to apologize? What is happening to America?

Kerry's remark made me realize what our "Land of the Free" is coming to.

Edo: Kerry apologized:

"I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member, or American who was offended," he said in a written statement.

Yes, Kerry apologized. It's not a graceful apology. He might have said, "I made a mistake in what I said," rather than blame the listener for misinterpreting what they heard. Nevertheless, the apology should be adequate to put the issue behind him. It's no worse than many other politicians' apologies.

I dunno he's had enough validation from the hannitybots to support that what he thought he said is what he really meant. I am not surprised. Kerry is not a regular guy like Bush like to pretend he is . And even at that Bush keeps talking about staying the course and Iraq when his own party wants him to STFU.

Comedy is hard and neither of these guys do comedy well. You don't go into politics to do comedy. Ar least not deliberately.

Kerry blew his lines. It only matters because the right still has a fabulous noise machine but otherwise they are talking out their asses.

And now Kerry gets to practice retributive outrage and apply the Clinton "hit back harder" dictum he learned since the "Path to 9/11" fiasco in prep for 2008. Bush gets to think he can control the national dialogue for another week. And the right can stop pissing on their own shoes for a couple of days and aim at a "real" target - see? It's win-win-win....

Hey, Kevin, remember Private Jessica Lynch, the girl that got "rescued" from a hospital in Iraq where she was being taking care of?

As I recall Kevin, Jessica said she join the military because she couldn't find a job, like a lot of other kids from rural American with no opportunities, the huge Pell Grant cut, having no other choice but to join the military.

What Kerry said is true, as true as what Howard Dean said when the US military found Saddam in his "spider-hole", that it didn't make Americans safer, even as Lieberman mocked him along with rest of the GOP.

Howard Dean was right, and even as Kerry said this, it's IS true. Rich people's children and kids that can find employment are NOT joining the military, and of course, that is why the military is taking academic flunkies these days.

It may not have been Kerry's brightest moment but it WAS the truth.

ex-liberal,

Yes, Kerry apologized. It's not a graceful apology.

The first part is not particularly graceful, but the second part was. More importantly, especially in contrast to Limbaugh's non-apology, was the fact that he apologized for how his mistake impacted how it was recieved--not that he blew the joke. If he were to play from Limbaugh's playbook, the apology would be something along the lines of:

"I made a mistake in my joke, I was wrong to do that. I didn't clearly state that Bush is the idiot. I'm sorry I blew the joke."

It's no worse than many other politicians' apologies.

and to my point re: Limbaugh, it was an apology; Limbaugh's was not.

It's obvious that Kerry never intended to criticize the troops, and I think it's obvious that any criticism that he has is directed at Bush and company. Though there are those in ranks who are polarized to one side or another, it's surprising that mainsteam media doubts the ability of the troops to discern Kerry's real target. An apology from Kerry was appropriate, but only to diffuse right wing talking points. The fact that Bush exhibited such enthusiasm in attacking Kerry only demonstrates (once again) that the emporer has no clothes. Kerry's real shortfall is he attempted to engage the schoolyard bullies who are better versed in the art of smackdown. Kerry couldn't counter them in the election, and he can't engage them now. It's a difference in personalities, focus, and an innate sense of personal responsibility that the administration lacks.

During Kerry's presidential bid, I remeber reading somewhere that his handlers complained that he always deviated from prepared remarks. I wish I could find that artice. There were some hilarious examples of the mess he made of well-written speeches. Knowing this adds credibility to his already plausible claim that he meant no offense to the troops.

I wish that he didnt apologize.

Freedom of speech allows to say our opinions
and now one who did is forced to say sorry by Bush.

Is this really a democrocy?
What is happeneing to the country that all others look up to?

we are just as bad as the rest.

PLEASE:

HE MEANT THE TROOPS AND IT IS OBVIOUS FROM THE VIDEO CLIP AND THE TEXT OF THE REMARKS. DEMOCRATS, FETISHIZING NON-VIOLENCE AS THEY DO WHATEVER THEIR PERSONAL BIOGRAPHIES, DESPISE THE MILITARY, CONSIDERING THEM ALL TO BE STUPID THUGS (KERRY HAS ACCUSED BOTH THE VIETNAM SOLDIERS AND IRAQ SOLDIERS AS A GROUP OF BEING EXACTLY THAT IN THE PAST).

Mark Steyn put it excellently:

If you talk to Democrats of the middle-class and upper-middle-class and (in John Heinz Kerry’s case) the neo-Gulf-emir-class, you’ll have heard the same thing a thousand times: these poor fellows in Iraq, they’re only there because they’re too poverty-stricken and ill-educated so they couldn’t become Senators and New York Times reporters and tenured Queer Studies professors like normal Americans do. That is, in fact, what they mean by the claim that they “support our troops”: they want to bring them home and retrain them so they’re not forced into taking jobs as Bush’s torturers and thugs. It’s part of the same condescension as describing soldiers as “our children”. If a 22-year old intern wants to drop to the Oval Office broadloom, she’s a grown woman exercising her freedom of choice. But, if a 28-year old guy wants to serve in Iraq, he’s a poor wee misguided Grade Six drop-out who doesn’t know any better. John Kerry’s soundbite is interesting not because it’s the umpteenth self-inflicted wound by Mister Nuance but because it gets right to the heart of the Democrats’ “support” for the troops.

PRESIDENT JOHN KERRY? THIS IS HOW IDIOTIC HE IS; I, T.O.H., FORCED TO CHOOSE, WOULD PICK JIMMY CARTER. THAT'S HOW IDIOTIC JOHN KERRY IS. SO, NOMINATE HIM, R-Ds, BY ALL MEANS.

TOH

The high troop morale is proved by the high re-enlistment rates.

BBZZZZSTT!!! Thanks for playing. If you had to chose between being held in a war zone by a stop-loss policy (a back door draft) or re-upping for a $40,000-690,000 bonus, what would you do?

After the Democrat party became the anti-military party

Now see, that is the kind of thing that my 3-war veteran, big-D Democrat father would kick your Publican ass for, if you had the guts to say something so stupid, vacuous and wrong to his face, anyway.

See?

how come you have the freedom of speech to say something like that but Kerry, simply b/c he is a politician, is forced to apologize?

If I told you to say sorry because something you said was disrespectful, would you?

Do Americans see the realy problem here?
FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

This post is another emergence of the "Bad Kevin", reciting RNC talking points.

If you don't study, don't learn, you get stupid and end up making huge blunders, like getting stuck in Iraq.

That was the joke. It was not referring to soldiers, it was an insult directed at GWB. And you know that damn well, Kevin!

You must admit Kerry had a point.

We need a smart guy as President, one who studies, listens, learns.

Kevin, take a swim, or a deep breath, and go back to being incisive again.

"I'm sort of loathe to even blog about the whole John Kerry flap"

It should be "loath" instead of "loathe."

Who cares?

We all know the average education in the military is lower than the average education in the United States.

We know we don't have an exit strategy, so even if you were smart, and in the military, it's wasted.

Where's the insult, exactly?

I see the arm-chair brigade is still quite strong.

Super, rossbest. I missed that.

I don't know if the American public will really appreciate the Homer Simpson routine of the right wing of the Republicans party: "Apologize to the soldiers!" Shaking fist, "Apologize!"

In fact, they might loathe it.

I can say as someone who's great-grandfather was gassed in WWI, who's grandfather served in Germany in WWII, and who's father met Harry Truman and was drafted (although he was smart enough to get out) of Vietnam, that none of them give two shits about what politicians say. It's what they do that counts.

George Bush will go down in History as a horrible president for what he's done, not for what he's said. No amount of pearl-clutching is going to change that fact. So get used to it.

The cause of Democrats is not well served by joining in with the Righties in attacking Kerry over this little flub. If we don't learn to stand together better, the Righties will continue to find effective ways to divide us, and win.

Crissa: We all know the average education in the military is lower than the average education in the United States.

I heard the exact opposite said on the Rush Limbaugh show today. Rush said the average education of the military was higher than average. As I understand it, all soldiers have a high school degree. Most officers have college or even post-graduate degrees.

Rush isn't always accurate, but he's often right. Crissa, do you have evidence supporting your POV?

Kevin:

I get that everybody wishes this hadn't happened. I get that everybody gets that Kerry was set up and mugged, and that if he hadn't fumbled the punch line we wouldn't be here. I get that everybody has an emotional need to put their frustrations somewhere, whether that means lashing out at Kerry or the media or Bush.

Why did Kerry blow the line? Because he's been criss-crossing the country like a singer on a two-shows-a-night cross-country tour. Because he was out on his feet (look at the clip) and trying to finish up strong. I saw the man about thirty times in '03 and '04: that's Kerry running on fumes, trying to give his all for the next audience in the next town.

Yeah, we're Democrats all right. We talk tough, but when one of our own stumbles, no matter how hard he's been working, we all pull a reason out of our ass why it shouldn't have happened or wouldn't have happened to us our our own particular favorite candidate. So let's do it. Let's nominate a perfect, flawless person next time, so we don't have to deal with any of this.

You first.

Only the Air Force and the Navy require high school diplomas. The Marines and the Army will take recruits with a GED. Likewise the Navy and the Air Force require a bachelors degree for application to OCS, but the other two branches accept applicants with 90 credit hours of college work.

17% of the recruits that were accepted last fiscal year were waivered for reasons of health, character or criminal record.

I heard the exact opposite said on the Rush Limbaugh show today. Rush said the average education of the military was higher than average

Wow, then it MUST be true, if some bloated pillhead loser said so.

Geez you dolts really believe anything an authority figure tells you, dont you?

Thanks for the education info, Global Citizen. It doesn't answer the question of whether the average military person has more or less education than the average citizen, but it helps.

I don't spout anything as a fact until I can back it up.

As a note. All officers have a college degree. Almost all officers at the rank of Major (O-4) or above have masters degrees, with a small minority having PhDs. Large numbers of senior enlisted (Master Sergeants and above) also have college degrees. Graduates from the military academies have to complete their undergraduate degree in 4 years, usually about 160-170 semester hours (they go in the summer too) and carry 15-18 semester hours each semester. This usually includes at least 30 semester hours of engineering and science classes even for history majors (compare with Matt Yglesius's (sp) degree). Each academy sends 3-5 graduates on Rhodes scholarships each year.

When I entered the AF Academy the average entering SAT score was above 1300 (1980). I didn't know anyone who hadn't been accepted to at least one other school, and most had turned down scholarships (like I did to Cornell and Michigan).

The idea that military officers and enlisted are too dumb and stupid to do other things and succeed is ignorant on its face. That idea died decades ago. That's why the active duty troops don't want a draft - it would bring down the quality.

As for Kerry. What was he thinking????

I can say as someone who's great-grandfather was gassed in WWI, who's grandfather served in Germany in WWII, and who's father met Harry Truman and was drafted (although he was smart enough to get out) of Vietnam, that none of them give two shits about what politicians say. It's what they do that counts.
Posted by: enozinho (wetorture.com)

Amen. And let's take a quick look at what's actually going on the on the ground: We're calling off the search for the missing soldier. On orders from al-Maliki, after he met with Casey and our Ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, our Army is being ordered by the Iraqi Prime Minister to leave one of ours behind. Does anyone think Casey would have agreed to that without the administration weighing via the ambassador? Or to be more precise, does anyone who served in the military think we'd leave a man behind, unless ordered to?

I have had many conflicting thoughts about this 'controversy.' Was Kerry daft? Was Kerry deliberately torpedoing the Democratic chances of regaining a majority? Was Kerry genuinely trying to insult the president? Was Kerry correct and stating what everyone knows: the military is a last resort welfare system for the poor seeking education and the dim witted settling for economic security?

I do not know the answers to my queries, but I know I have heard the joke the way it was told on radio and TV, and to me it sounds like an insult to Bush, so I don't even mind that he apologized since it received even more airplay. I hope it sounds like an insult to Bush to everyone, highlighting his privelaged mediocrity and the quaqmire that the occupation of Iraq has become.

Here is another military controversy to haunt the Publicans on their way to Tuesday:

The true stories of how American troops, killed in Iraq, actually died keep spilling out this week. On Tuesday, we explored the case of Kenny Stanton, Jr., murdered last month by our allies, the Iraqi police, though the military didn’t make that known at the time. Now we learn that one of the first female soldiers killed in Iraq died by her own hand after objecting to interrogation techniques used on prisoners.

She was Army specialist Alyssa Peterson, 27, a Flagstaff, Az., native serving with C Company, 311th Military Intelligence BN, 101st Airborne. Peterson was an Arabic-speaking interrogator assigned to the prison at our air base in troubled Tal-Afar in northwestern Iraq. According to official records, she died on Sept. 15, 2003, from a "non-hostile weapons discharge."

She was only the third American woman killed in Iraq so her death drew wide press attention. A "non-hostile weapons discharge" leading to death is not unusual in Iraq, often quite accidental, so this one apparently raised few eyebrows. The Arizona Republic, three days after her death, reported that Army officials "said that a number of possible scenarios are being considered, including Peterson's own weapon discharging, the weapon of another soldier discharging or the accidental shooting of Peterson by an Iraqi civilian."

But in this case, a longtime radio and newspaper reporter named Kevin Elston, unsatisfied with the public story, decided to probe deeper in 2005, "just on a hunch," he told E&P today. He made "hundreds of phone calls" to the military and couldn't get anywhere, so he filed a Freedom of Information Act request. When the documents of the official investigation of her death arrived, they contained bombshell revelations. Here’s what the Flagstaff public radio station, KNAU, where Elston now works, reported yesterday:

"Peterson objected to the interrogation techniques used on prisoners. She refused to participate after only two nights working in the unit known as the cage. Army spokespersons for her unit have refused to describe the interrogation techniques Alyssa objected to. They say all records of those techniques have now been destroyed...."

She was was then assigned to the base gate, where she monitored Iraqi guards, and sent to suicide prevention training. "But on the night of September 15th, 2003, Army investigators concluded she shot and killed herself with her service rifle," the documents disclose.

The Army talked to some of Peterson's colleagues. Asked to summarize their comments, Elston told E&P: "The reactions to the suicide were that she was having a difficult time separating her personal feelings from her professional duties. That was the consistent point in the testimonies, that she objected to the interrogation techniques, without describing what those techniques were."

Damn. The whole thing was supposed to be blockquoted. Sorry.

I know I am hard on the poor soldiers, but every one of their stories hurts. Thanks for the hurt GC.

Kevin,

you answered your own question. After two decades of speechifying, press conferences, etc., etc., such errors are a statistical inevitability. The real issue is why the media give Bush pass for his frequent gaffes, and cut Kerry absolutely no slack for his rather less frequent verbal miscues.

I guess you couldn't quite bring yourself to buck the trend, and actually come to the unqualified defense of one of the good guys.

Hey! Where is the demands for an appology from Boehner for this?

When Bush misspeaks, truth rolls uncomfortably out.
They have spent a lot of time thinking of ways to harm Americans.

- Kerry screwed up big time.
- Watching the video it's hard to believe he was trying to say something else.
- Probably will not do much damage as people know that's the truth.
- And the best thing: he's out of the race for 2008.

So the net result is probably good for the Democrats.

zeke: The real issue is why the media give Bush pass for his frequent gaffes

They haven't given Bush a pass at all. Quite the contrary. Slate Magazine has been running Bushisms of the Day for Heaven knows how long. These Bushisms are often picked up by others in the media. http://www.slate.com/id/76886/

Overall, the media has given him a pass.

Where was the outrage over his "joke" about the WMD's being under his desk, "they gotta be around here somewhere. Hyuk, Hyuk."

yea kevin, John Kerry still can get flustered in front of a camera...good comment, great point. Way to keep your eye on the ball. give us some more oh sage one.

Sullivan tore into Bush and Rummy on CNN today.

A large segment of the enlisted army are quite frankly, almost unemployable elsewhere. A draft would make the public really take notice of who's really fighting this war. I'll say it again, lets put the twins and tiger woods over there and see if rummy and cheney keep getting patted on the back.

The Air Force and the Navy get the cream of the enlistee crop. As soon as those ASVAB scores come back high enough, the USAF and USN recruiters are climbing over the backs of the Marine and Army recruiters.

A large segment of the enlisted army are quite frankly, almost unemployable elsewhere.

Wah?

Too bad people don't get fired for being elitist snobs. It might open up a few jobs for folks that would otherwise enlist.

"Enlistment is also predicted by parents’ education (children of college educated parents are less likely to serve), high school grades (those with higher grades are less likely to serve), college plans (college students are less likely to enlist), race and ethnicity (African Americans and Hispanics are more likely to serve than whites), and attractiveness of military work roles."

--America's Military Population

Karl Rove's October Surprise...is John Kerry.

Also, Kerry hasn't always suported the troops. In particular, there was his famous Congressional testimony during the Vietnam War, when he accused the troops of unspeakable atrocities (falsely, as it turned out.) If I were serving in Iraq, I wouldn't be convinced that Kerry respected me.

Falsely? What part of the Nam were you in?

Too bad the Publicans couldn't keep John Boehners lip zipped: (From the most-excellent AMERICAblog)

Kevin Madden, Boehner's spokesman, sent this response: “Democrats are quickly squandering any and all credibility by even attempting to equate Mr. Boehner’s comments with criticism of anyone in the military. It’s an obvious and weak attempt to deflect criticism from Senator Kerry’s awful remarks delivered earlier this week, remarks Mr. Boehner was highly critical of. Mr. Boehner commends our military and our generals for doing a heroic job each and every day in their fight aga