Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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November 3, 2006
By: Kevin Drum

THE LIGHT MAN....This might be the most pathetic thing I've ever read. It's David Frum talking about George Bush:

I always believed as a speechwriter that if you could persuade the president to commit himself to certain words, he would feel himself committed to the ideas that underlay those words. And the big shock to me has been that although the president said the words, he just did not absorb the ideas. And that is the root of, maybe, everything.

Shorter David Frum: I used to think Bush was such an empty vessel that if I could just get him to parrot the words I wrote, they'd bounce around in his skull and become actual ideas for lack of any competition. Later, though, I finally realized why his skull was empty of serious ideas in the first place.

And, yes, this is the root of everything.

Kevin Drum 6:37 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (201)

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Comments

He comes to bury Caesar, not praise him.

Posted by: JFD on November 3, 2006 at 6:43 PM | PERMALINK

almost as bad as the craven piece in Vanity Fair where all the neocons ask for a mulligan on Iraq

an issue coveniently too late for the election cycle the media would rather have fake news about reinacting the 2004 election then facing facts of complete load of crap Bush co has handed this country

Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker on November 3, 2006 at 6:45 PM | PERMALINK

Does Frum imply that Boosh is NOT "a work of art in progress"? That he in fact is simply an empty suit? And how does THAT opinion square with the dozens of smarmy encomia previously offered by this guy toward his former client? Much like all of the other rats now jumping this leaky ship, Frum suddenly discovers the obvious: Boosh has the brains of a box of rocks, hooray for belated insights. Now please fuck off, fool, your era is ending toute suite.

Posted by: barrisj on November 3, 2006 at 6:50 PM | PERMALINK

George knows what is TRULY important -- that 16-cell blastocysts be given more rights than black babies, and that Paris Hilton not be denied ONE DIME of her inheritance!

Oh, and brown people are scary and we have to make war on them to make Al feel like a Real Man.

Posted by: Al's Mommy on November 3, 2006 at 6:51 PM | PERMALINK

Frum was the proud coiner of the phrase "axis of evil". His assignment, as he admitted, was to "provide a justification for war".

That's right -- they wanted a war, and left it to the speechwriter to think up the reasons.

Posted by: captcrisis on November 3, 2006 at 6:52 PM | PERMALINK

Chuck: I was just about to point that out. Shorter is shorter!

Katherine: This is from the Vanity Fair article. I'll have more to say about that later.

Posted by: Kevin Drum on November 3, 2006 at 6:53 PM | PERMALINK

Now he tells us.

Posted by: craigie on November 3, 2006 at 6:54 PM | PERMALINK

I think we all expect nothing less from David Frum than the most pathetic statements ever.

Posted by: greggy on November 3, 2006 at 6:54 PM | PERMALINK

Shorter Kevin Drum: 2f6f1cf062b24ec4fe4cc1abccedc7e3

Posted by: md5sum on November 3, 2006 at 6:56 PM | PERMALINK

Between the Neocons and Bush, Boehner and the generals, and Chalabi and Wolfowitz, we're running out of buses.

This would all be funny if we weren't out $350 billion and nearly 3,000 American kids.

Posted by: Stranger on November 3, 2006 at 6:56 PM | PERMALINK

It's hard to see what Bush was supposed to absorb, given all his speeches have been basically hollow invocations of airy abstractions, utterly devoid of substance or import.

Posted by: Dan on November 3, 2006 at 6:57 PM | PERMALINK

See? I was right all along.

Too bad he wasn't the MISSING sock.

Posted by: Bush_is_a_sock_puppet on November 3, 2006 at 6:57 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin,

Any chance you'll be posting on the ACORN indictments? Not that there's any Democratic vote fraud going on or anything....

Posted by: Brian on November 3, 2006 at 6:57 PM | PERMALINK

Frum should write screenplays for Hollywood.

Posted by: NTodd on November 3, 2006 at 7:00 PM | PERMALINK

Between the Neocons and Bush, Boehner and the generals, and Chalabi and Wolfowitz, we're running out of buses.
Posted by: Stranger on November 3, 2006 at 6:56 PM | PERMALINK

Ask Michael Brown, I think he's got a whole parking lot full of em.

Posted by: Rumsfeld_ARMS_Terrorists on November 3, 2006 at 7:00 PM | PERMALINK

This is disturbing at so many levels it boggles the mind.

So if Bush is really just an empty shell, who's in charge? Ok, that's a rhetorical question -- the Dark Lord (Dick Chehey) is in charge. But I guess we already new that.

aa

Posted by: aaron aardvark on November 3, 2006 at 7:03 PM | PERMALINK

What a shock - David Frum, the Edgar Bergen of speechwriting, had problems with Cheney's Mortimer Snerd.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on November 3, 2006 at 7:08 PM | PERMALINK

Ah, Kevin.

Now that the mainstream liberal media is busy trying to bury the Republicans, I guess Bush bashing is in style now.

Just wait until you guys disappoint next Tuesday. The tone might change here.

God pray that the Republicans take no prisoners Tuesday. For the sake of the country.

Unfortunately, you childish libs think it's more improtant to poke the President in the eye instead of promoting the good of the country.

Posted by: egbert on November 3, 2006 at 7:09 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin's conclusion isn't supported by the quote. As Chuck pointed out, to say that Bush didn't adopt Frum's ideas may mean that he stuck to his own ideas. Or, it may mean that he adopted ideas of other advisors, who were not neo-cons.

Incidentally, I don't agree with Frum. Our failures in Iraq after overthrowing Saddam were due to tactical decisions -- both military and political -- not to political philosophy IMHO. I like the neocons, but they don't have the answer to every problem. It's arrogant of Frum to imply that everything would have been fine if only Bush had more precisely followed the neocons.

It may be that the Iraqis were incapable of sustaining a demcracy. If so, then Bush's mistake may have been following the neocon philosophy too closely, by trying to install democracy.

Posted by: ex-liberal on November 3, 2006 at 7:14 PM | PERMALINK

I thought unwaivering consistency used to be a virture.
Posted by: Chuck

No, that's called pig-headed stubbornness. But if that's what you like in your leaders, you've certainly gotten your money's worth with Bush.

Posted by: cyntax on November 3, 2006 at 7:17 PM | PERMALINK

After reading the Vanity Fair article, my question is: What are the 30some % that continue to support this incompetent asshat smoking?

Posted by: old gold on November 3, 2006 at 7:18 PM | PERMALINK

Hey trolls GOT METH AND A hummer.That alone will bury the Neocons. heh.

Posted by: Thomas2.0 on November 3, 2006 at 7:18 PM | PERMALINK

It appears that none of these people have basic cable. Watch the History Channel for about 10 random hours and you have all you need to know to not be surprised at how things have turned out in the slightest. I mean, much blog space has been spilt on this, but what in the world, other than arrogance coupled with ignorance, led this crowd to believe that the moral values of the United States, whatever the hell those are, could be imposed on another country by military force?

What, exactly, were Frums' qualifications for every considering, for a nano-second, that he, Frum, had any idea what the appropriate "ideas" should be for American foreign policy?

Posted by: hank on November 3, 2006 at 7:19 PM | PERMALINK

You GOP supports sound like mental patients. Can you really be so confident after the worst 6 years in recent history?

Posted by: Michael Buchanan on November 3, 2006 at 7:19 PM | PERMALINK

"It's hard to see what Bush was supposed to absorb, given all his speeches have been basically hollow invocations of airy abstractions, utterly devoid of substance or import."

Nicely done, Dan.

Posted by: Yoshi on November 3, 2006 at 7:27 PM | PERMALINK

This quote may be more significant for what it says about Frum and the neocons than for what it says about Bush (because we already knew about the latter).

Frum, a core member of the inner neocon circle, admits that, as a speechwriter, he was trying to "persuade the president to commit himself to certain words" so that "he would feel himself committed to the ideas that underlay those words".

So here is another version of the tail trying to wag the dog. Coming as an admission from the tail itself. How successful Frum was at this game is something the rest of us can evaluate as well, since we heard the words and saw the deeds. And it seems that he was more successful than he's letting on.

Posted by: JS on November 3, 2006 at 7:29 PM | PERMALINK

egbert... On the contrary, I feel it is very 'protant' to poke George Wobble-you Bush in the eye.

Posted by: Yoshi on November 3, 2006 at 7:31 PM | PERMALINK

Another coroner turned.

Posted by: angryspittle on November 3, 2006 at 7:32 PM | PERMALINK

Trolls: Game over. Please go away. Even the man who wrote the speeches Bush mouthed--badly--now recants. The true axis of evil spins like an empty hampster wheel in Bush's head.

Devoid of ideas. Curiosity. Compassion. Intellect.
contrition. Perscipacity.

The only reason he was able to debate Kerry was because Karen Hughes spoke into his earphone. The only reason he can stand in one place while moving his mouth in the direction of cameras is because he is nailed to his perch.

In sum, he has the mind of a dead parrot.

Now go and read something "My Life" by Bill Clinton.

Posted by: Sparko on November 3, 2006 at 7:32 PM | PERMALINK

Hell, it worked with Reagan, didn't it?

Posted by: dr sardonicus on November 3, 2006 at 7:33 PM | PERMALINK

You'd have to be very partisan indeed not to find that very funny.

Posted by: VRWC on November 3, 2006 at 7:35 PM | PERMALINK

and yet, this clown is still worshipped by the GOP dead-enders and the idolaters on the Christian right.

Posted by: cleek on November 3, 2006 at 7:40 PM | PERMALINK

Wow, Frum is suddenly credible around here.

Posted by: Brian on November 3, 2006 at 7:40 PM | PERMALINK

Nice, Chuck. Pickin' on the cripples, are we? Seems to be a GOP meme this past week or two.

Posted by: Wendolyn on November 3, 2006 at 7:40 PM | PERMALINK

From all accounts WWII was our proudest moment as a nation. At least our soldiers died for something meaningful.

Posted by: Michael Buchanan on November 3, 2006 at 7:41 PM | PERMALINK

This has to be the most entertaining post/comment thread I have read in a long time and we were not subjected to either Al or American Hawk, although egbert did his best imitation. On to Tuesday!

Posted by: Fred on November 3, 2006 at 7:42 PM | PERMALINK

This is why you don't see me on this site anymore.Because I saw the light. An evil moron is running the country.

Posted by: tbrosz on November 3, 2006 at 7:44 PM | PERMALINK

Shorter David Frum: If only I could have gotten Bush to BOMB all three of the axis of evil nations?

Frum is the father of the idea to started a nuclear arms race in Mideast.

Jeebus, what a moron.

Posted by: Cheryl on November 3, 2006 at 7:46 PM | PERMALINK

Chuck,
Moral cripples are not protected under ADA. And have a choice in continuing their infirmity.
Apples and hand-drills.

Posted by: kenga on November 3, 2006 at 7:50 PM | PERMALINK

I am looking forward to the moment when people start denying that they ever supported this president. It seems like we are heading there now. What's taking you so long chuck?

Posted by: Michael Buchanan on November 3, 2006 at 7:51 PM | PERMALINK

George Bush --the soft-headliner!

Posted by: cld on November 3, 2006 at 7:52 PM | PERMALINK

And yet no American ever stood as tall or as proud as when FDR led us to victory over many evils. . .
FDR stands even today so much taller than Reagan, Nixon, or the Bushocracy--it is because a great man of ideas miraculously rises to lead an underserving throng in defiance of small minds, physical deficits and numbing fear. I hope that another FDR leads us soon out of the fear and disasters of the past six years.

Posted by: Sparko on November 3, 2006 at 7:53 PM | PERMALINK

What happens when the "results" show the GOP retains control?

What the fuck do we all do then?

Suck it up an roll over again?

Posted by: angryspittle on November 3, 2006 at 7:53 PM | PERMALINK

At least Bush can stand, unlike FDR.
Posted by: Chuck on November 3, 2006 at 7:35 PM | PERMALINK

He can stand as long as the batteries in the control box on his back (under his suitcoat) remain charged.

Posted by: Rumsfeld_ARMS_Terrorists on November 3, 2006 at 7:56 PM | PERMALINK

I am irate!

Oops...

I mean:

I am an iraqi!

Oops...

I mean:

[Insert super-loud explosion here]

[Insert mass graves of American caused Iraqi deaths here]

Posted by: WarCriminals@RNC.com on November 3, 2006 at 8:01 PM | PERMALINK

David Frum has betrayed the president. I would accuse him of being a traitor, but he is a Canadian, and hence not a traitor but an enemy.

Canadians are all liberals to their marrow, and no matter how much Frum pretended to be a conservative, all real conservatives knew what he was. He has merely shown his true colors.

Posted by: Al on November 3, 2006 at 8:16 PM | PERMALINK

Chuckles;

Get on your knees, bitch.

Posted by: Feh on November 3, 2006 at 8:20 PM | PERMALINK

egbert: Unfortunately, you childish libs think it's more improtant to poke the President in the eye instead of promoting the good of the country.

And who are those "childish libs" you refer to?

Richard Perle?

According to Perle, who left the Defense Policy Board in 2004, this unfolding catastrophe has a central cause: devastating dysfunction within the administration of President George W. Bush. Perle says, "The decisions did not get made that should have been. They didn't get made in a timely fashion, and the differences were argued out endlessly.
Kenneth Adelman?
"I just presumed that what I considered to be the most competent national-security team since Truman was indeed going to be competent. They turned out to be among the most incompetent teams in the post-war era. Not only did each of them, individually, have enormous flaws, but together they were deadly, dysfunctional."
Michael Rubin?
"Where I most blame George Bush is that through his rhetoric people trusted him, people believed him. Reformists came out of the woodwork and exposed themselves." By failing to match his rhetoric with action, Rubin adds, Bush has betrayed Iraqi reformers in a way that is "not much different from what his father did on February 15, 1991, when he called the Iraqi people to rise up, and then had second thoughts and didn't do anything once they did."
Frank Gaffney?
"[Bush] doesn't in fact seem to be a man of principle who's steadfastly pursuing what he thinks is the right course. He talks about it, but the policy doesn't track with the rhetoric, and that's what creates the incoherence that causes us problems around the world and at home.

Posted by: has407 on November 3, 2006 at 8:23 PM | PERMALINK

I thought unwaivering consistency used to be a virture. Didn't Ben Franklin write something about that once?

So did Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Posted by: Scott C. on November 3, 2006 at 8:25 PM | PERMALINK

OK, let's concede for a moment that maybe Bush resisted Frum's words due to his own unwavering contrary ideas and principles. Now what does that look like? A president willing to stand up and say things to the American public that he himself does not believe.

So go ahead, take your pick.

Posted by: JP Stormcrow on November 3, 2006 at 8:42 PM | PERMALINK

Here's an interview that David Frum did for Fresh Air.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=907198

It's 2003. Frum has been out of the White House for about a year. He's just finished a book. He's explaining how hard the Bush White House works, how well they're handling the economy, how wise Bush foreign policy is. How they have a strict moral code - specifically mentioning naughty words (wtf?) and substance abuse (again, wtf?).

"The root of it" isn't that brilliant thinkers like Frum couldn't get through to the guy, it's that people like Frum were so eager carry water him.

Posted by: Saam Barrager on November 3, 2006 at 8:50 PM | PERMALINK

I will not deny him until the third cock crows (with Guckert & Haggard down, that means just one more).

And Foley makes three.

Posted by: denial buster on November 3, 2006 at 8:53 PM | PERMALINK

why do you liberals not realize that, come tuesday, you'll be shocked that things didn't go quite as you thought?

Posted by: upchuck on November 3, 2006 at 8:54 PM | PERMALINK

egbert: Unfortunately, you childish libs think it's more improtant to poke the President in the eye instead of promoting the good of the country.

William F. Buckley?

"If you had a European prime minister who experienced what we've experienced it would be expected that [Bush] would retire or resign," Buckley says.

Posted by: got 407 on November 3, 2006 at 8:58 PM | PERMALINK

Here's an enlightening excerpt from the article:

As he looks into my eyes, speaking slowly and with obvious deliberation, Perle is unrecognizable as the confident hawk who, as chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee, had invited the exiled Iraqi dissident Ahmad Chalabi to its first meeting after 9/11. "The levels of brutality that we've seen are truly horrifying, and I have to say, I underestimated the depravity," Perle says now, adding that total defeatan American withdrawal that leaves Iraq as an anarchic "failed state"is not yet inevitable but is becoming more likely. "And then," says Perle, "you'll get all the mayhem that the world is capable of creating."

According to Perle, who left the Defense Policy Board in 2004, this unfolding catastrophe has a central cause: devastating dysfunction within the administration of President George W. Bush. Perle says, "The decisions did not get made that should have been. They didn't get made in a timely fashion, and the differences were argued out endlessly. At the end of the day, you have to hold the president responsible. I don't think he realized the extent of the opposition within his own administration, and the disloyalty."

Perle goes so far as to say that, if he had his time over, he would not have advocated an invasion of Iraq.

Et tu, Perle?

Posted by: trex on November 3, 2006 at 9:04 PM | PERMALINK

Frum is a moron, Bush is a moron, so Davie thought they were soul mates. He missed the part where Tolstoy explained that every idiot is idiotic in his own special way.

Posted by: CapitalistImperialistPig on November 3, 2006 at 9:24 PM | PERMALINK

Also priceless is the photo showing an emaciated Perle with fingers that look just like hawk claws.

And this quote from Ledeen lamenting love's labor lost:

Ask yourself who the most powerful people in the White House are. They are women who are in love with the president: Laura [Bush], Condi, Harriet Miers, and Karen Hughes.

Posted by: JS on November 3, 2006 at 9:25 PM | PERMALINK

The real shorter Frum:I got nothing,now or then.

Is there no shame left in this world? Tony Snow has a presser to blast Kerry by saying the "us" that Kerry left out doesn't parse. Yet,that evening,Jon Stewart points out that what Kerry meant to say was "...if you don't, you get (us) stuck in Iraq." How come no other (supposedly) real,old or new,media could slap that supercillious snot Snow down and be done with him? Instead,he gets airtime with that drivel.

Rumsfeld won the battle to run Iraq post-invasion and Bush acceded to it.Rummy proved to be an incompetent,murderous naif who has us so far stuck up the asshole of Iraq,we may never get out.

Oh,and Bush will have helped the US to a massive devaluation of our currency.Wait until the Euro is the currency of global transactions.Instead of visiting my daughter in England...maybe.

Other than that,I don't think the election Tuesday is going to result in any change in course or policy no matter who wins.Not for another two years anyway.


Posted by: TJM on November 3, 2006 at 9:29 PM | PERMALINK

Here's another good one:

Kenneth Adelman, a lifelong neocon activist and Pentagon insider who served on the Defense Policy Board until 2005, wrote a famous op-ed article in The Washington Post in February 2002, arguing: "I believe demolishing Hussein's military power and liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk." Now he says, "I just presumed that what I considered to be the most competent national-security team since Truman was indeed going to be competent. They turned out to be among the most incompetent teams in the post-war era. Not only did each of them, individually, have enormous flaws, but together they were deadly, dysfunctional."

Mmmm, that's some tasty falling out among thieves.

Posted by: trex on November 3, 2006 at 9:32 PM | PERMALINK

Unfortunately, you childish libs think it's more improtant to poke the President in the eye instead of promoting the good of the country.

Posted by: egbert on November 3, 2006 at 7:09 PM

Tell you what, eggy. Hop into the time machine you've got over in the corner of your mom's basement, set the dial for 1993, and when you get back there, tell your Rethuglican pals to stop poking the President in the eye and start promoting the good of the country. Oh wait ...

Posted by: Temperance on November 3, 2006 at 9:42 PM | PERMALINK

Wait till you guys have to face utter humiliating defeat just in four days, all because of the LIGHT MAN's superior campaigning skills . . .
Posted by: Chuck on November 3, 2006 at 9:27 PM | PERMALINK

Light Man? You mean LUCIFER?

Posted by: Karl Rove on November 3, 2006 at 9:46 PM | PERMALINK
So many Republican candidates have been distancing themselves from the White House, on Iraq, in particular, that Bush himself was finally forced to abandon his three-year-old "stay-the-course" mantra last week.
Worse, some of the neo-conservatives' former allies have publicly turned on them with a vengeance. Former Secretary of State Al Haig, a strong supporter of going to war in Iraq, shocked many here two weeks ago when he told a widely-viewed CNN Sunday talk show that the war had been "driven by the so-called neo-cons that hijacked my party..."
He referred by name to Richard Perle of the American Enterprise Institute and the Pentagon's Defence Policy Board and former Deputy Defence Secretary (now World Bank President) Paul Wolfowitz, as well as the editorial-page writers of the Wall Street Journal.
Posted by: es tu? on November 3, 2006 at 9:55 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, by all means promote the good of the country. The way that the Military Media Group is going to promote the good of the country on Monday, when they will have all of the four branches Times publications, such as the Army Times, etc, demand the resignation or firing of Rumsfeld.

These ain't Pravda baby!

Posted by: thethirdPaul on November 3, 2006 at 9:56 PM | PERMALINK

Thank you, 癌症治疗, for posting something more intelligent and relevant than our resident trolls ever did.

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on November 3, 2006 at 10:09 PM | PERMALINK

And remember little trools, the good folks over at the Schaife Toxic Waste Dump will help find work for you next Wednesday. Penquin cleanup in Tierra del Fuego perhaps, but what the hey, it's still Showbiz, heh?

Posted by: thethirdPaul on November 3, 2006 at 10:14 PM | PERMALINK

Light Man? You mean LUCIFER?
Posted by: Karl Rove

Lucifer was the **morning star,as Jesus called himself, that star really being the planet Venus, also known as the planet of love.
In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."

Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, **Lucifer was the name given to the **morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light."

Posted by: Dog_named_Boo on November 3, 2006 at 10:15 PM | PERMALINK

Look, lets be honest - the invasion of Iraq was all about oil. We didn't invade Iraq because Bush and Cheney thought Saddam had WMDs. They knew damn well that he didn't. The CIA or neocon operatives were involved in forging the Niger documents. We didn't invade Iraq because Saddam was a brutal dictator who created mass graves. If that were true, why didn't we invade the Congo, or Uzbekistan?

The plan to invade Iraq was to fractionalize OPEC, to prevent the Shia factions in Iraq from uniting with the Shia of Iran, which would shift the balance of oil power away from the Saudis and to set up an American filling station in the heart of the Middle East. Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't looking at the facts.

The neocons bashing Bush are just upset that the filling station is out of order and all busted up.

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on November 3, 2006 at 10:28 PM | PERMALINK

Won't this hurt the "sales" of The Right Man?

Also, the real shorter David Frum: wingnut welfare is now only offered to those who blame Bush.

Posted by: calling all toasters on November 3, 2006 at 10:43 PM | PERMALINK

Very informative, Dog_named_boo. But the devil came to New York a few weeks ago. And it still smells of sulfur today.

Conservative Deflator:
I don't believe that the plan to invade Iraq was designed to LOWER oil prices or ease access to oil.

Look at Peak Oil Theory. (I know it's late on a Friday, on a dead thread for me to be bringing this up. . . )

Say you're a "Texas Oil Millionaire" (to use Eisenhower's name for them) - and say that after considerable effort and expense, you've finally bought your way into the White House.

You've heard about Peak Oil. Hell, your Oil Company CEO buddies told you all about it during the Secret Energy Policy Meetings. They told you that the NATURAL direction of the market was generally a bell-curve of production capacity, and after the peak, oil prices go up. You also know that, as a reaction to high oil-prices, consumers will belt-tighten, buy more efficient cars, etc. But ONLY if it's a sustained price hike, and only if they KNOW that the price hike is permanent, and will not go down. Well, we all know how that particular flying turd landed in the Houston economy in the early 1980's, after US Oil production peaked in 1973.

So how do we solve this problem? There must be SOME way to maximize the oil-company profits while there is still oil to be had.

There is.

You manipulate the market by taking production capacity out.

Enron demonstrated a proof-of-concept in California in 2000.

You see, if the production drops - and the prices rise, you can take advantage and profit off of this, in the short term. When people start buying small cars, then open the spigots. Wait for them to all buy SUV's again, then cut them off. You end up FLATTENING the production peak, and stretching it out over a longer period of time. (damn that pesky global warming!).

But HOW could wee-little America shut down Global Oil Production temporarily? Well, to CONTROL that, you'd need a way to put on the brakes, and a way to accelerate. Relationships forged with Saudis over decades of softball policy towards their Brutal Dictatorship (which BANS Christianity - Christian proselytization in Saudi Arabia carries the death penalty) can help with that. They're the world's most oil-rich country. How do you put on the brakes though?

Destroy the infrastructure of the world's SECOND most oil-rich nation! Install an occupation force large enough to piss off any insurgent factions, but not large enough to actually eliminate the insurgent factions. The product? Perpetual chaos - perpetual clampdown on global oil production capacity - a de facto protected reserve. It saves us the trouble of shipping it over to the US to pump into the SPR.

This war IS all about oil. It's about war-profiteering, and market manipulation. It's a game. You're a pawn. And the king doesn't give a crap about you, and frankly, wishes you'd just get the fuck out of his way, and give him all your money while you're at it. Because Money is Power. And the king isn't satisfied merely with being king.

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on November 3, 2006 at 10:44 PM | PERMALINK

Someone mentioned William F. Buckley...

You seem -- and other conservatives -- look at Bush's foreign policy and say, this is not a conservative foreign policy.
BUCKLEY: Well, manifestly it is not. To suggest that we should undertake to import democracy into every country in the world is loony, and also unhealthy.
Now, if you say, OK, the American people were threatened by Iraq, and incidentally, if we win that engagement, we're also going to introduce democracy, that's a nice afterthought. But it is not something which retrospectively authorizes that military intervention.

Posted by: dagger on November 3, 2006 at 10:57 PM | PERMALINK

American ChickenHawk,
Still waiting for one of your assinine comments. I need the laugh.

Posted by: Ralphy D on November 3, 2006 at 11:02 PM | PERMALINK

So then Frum is admitting that he was helping Bush to say things that at the time Bush did not believe? I think they call that lying. A curse on them both.

Posted by: Michael7843853 G-O in 08! on November 3, 2006 at 11:06 PM | PERMALINK

OBF brought up Peak Oil theory. I am an admitted peak oil crank. Here are some links.

Life After the Oil Crash
Peak Engineer's Website
Peak Oil Awareness
My Peak Oil-dot-org
Peak Oil-dot-net


Posted by: Global Citizen on November 3, 2006 at 11:34 PM | PERMALINK

Bush had an idea once, but it died of loneliness...

Posted by: Oilfieldguy on November 4, 2006 at 12:01 AM | PERMALINK

Go to Vanity Fair...com article by David Rose for much, much more.
The consensus and "money quote" from the neocons is that these, i.e.Bush et al, are not serious people.

Now you tell us.

Posted by: cognitorex on November 4, 2006 at 12:03 AM | PERMALINK

That was the most satisfying article I've read in years.

People say it's petty to say "I told you so," but they never mention how utterly delicious it is. It certainly is sweet to watch a bunch of neocons sit down to a smorgasbord of shit sandwiches and start filling their plates. Bon appetit, boys!

Posted by: Pennypacker on November 4, 2006 at 12:47 AM | PERMALINK

It is just as plasuible that Frum finally realized that Bush has rock-solid principles ...

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Posted by: FreakyBeaky on November 4, 2006 at 12:54 AM | PERMALINK

I did the "Told You So" dance, in my jammies, while reading passages to my step-dad over the phone. I could hear blood vessels bursting in his hateful head, so I just kept on ...Gaffney, Perle, Cohen, Rubin...All the rats, swimming furiously away from the the sinking ship.

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Posted by: Global Citizen on November 4, 2006 at 1:05 AM | PERMALINK

JFD nailed it. Et tu Frum?

All the rats are either deserting the ship or sinking knives in each other's backs. Its like the Tolkien theory of why the orcs were bound to lose to the weaker hobbits. In the end, thieves fall out.

Posted by: The Fool on November 4, 2006 at 1:19 AM | PERMALINK

And the big shock to me has been that although the president said the words, he just did not absorb the ideas. And that is the root of, maybe, everything.

Bush was listening to his advisors, not his speechwriters. He was selecting from his speechwriters the words that he and his advisors wanted. The idea that a speechwriter might direct policy or the thoughts of the president is absurd.

You will accept any criticism of Bush and the Republicans no matter how thoughtless it might be.

Posted by: republicrat on November 4, 2006 at 2:16 AM | PERMALINK

The article on balance is much stronger than that one excerpt. Here is the link to the full article, in case you haven't read it.

Posted by: Global Citizen on November 4, 2006 at 2:19 AM | PERMALINK

republicrat, you seem to have complete missed the point. Frum said that the President "said the words, he just did not absorb the ideas." In other words, he didn't understand what he was saying.
Whether or not he was listening to his advisers is irrelevant.

If Frum is wrong and the President actually understood what he was saying, then he was intentionally saying things he didn't believe.

So the President is either an idiot or a liar. Some choice.

aa

Posted by: aaron aardvarka on November 4, 2006 at 3:01 AM | PERMALINK

Frumkin offers nothing, unless the left realizes what is happening and becomes socialist, they may win an election here & there, but the outcome is inevitable. Tranquillity base may be calm, but it is also devoid of life.

Posted by: Michael7843853 G-O in 08! on November 4, 2006 at 3:39 AM | PERMALINK

Unfortunately, you childish libs think it's more improtant to poke the President in the eye instead of promoting the good of the country.
-- egbert

Eggie, removing poor leaders from office IS for the good of the country. It's sounding like the 2006 mid-term elections will be a good start.

One of the key characteristics of childishness is an inability to grasp reality. Another is petulance. President Bush says we are winning in Iraq while the generals' charts show Iraq to be literally on the verge of total chaos. Just who is being childish?

Your weak attempt at condescending arrogance rings hollow.

Posted by: pj in jesusland on November 4, 2006 at 4:03 AM | PERMALINK

Chuck,

How is it that you've adopted the posting habits of Charlie?

Re your 7:29 post: the Great Depression and World War II did not fall within a six year period, the bad years of the depression lasted only four years, and I can't think of anyone who was alive at the time who considers the war years to have been the worst in this country's history. So what the hell are you talking about?

The worst period of the Great Depression lasted four years, from 1929-1933, and was followed by four years of sustained growth. That growth was halted by a 13-month recession in 1937-38, then the economy resumed its upswing until the U.S. entered World War II, and a little bit beyond. In fact, real GNP growth averaged about 10% between 1933 and 1941 (except for the recession), but the really bad years were so bad that real GNP didn't catch up to its prewar trend until 1942. Unemployment was high throughout this period (it reached 25% in 1933), but mainly hovered around 10% -- bad, but not horrible.

So, yeah, a six-year period that includes 1929-1933 would be a good candidate for the worst six years in our nation's history. So would a six-year period that includes 1861-1865.

But since Michael Buchanan said he was looking at recent history, I think the senseless war in Iraq that we're going to abandon in disgrace, accompanied by a relentless assault on basic civil liberties, and coupled with a mediocre national economy (recession followed by a lackluster recovery) and staggering personal inequalities of wealth, makes the years 2000-2006 an excellent candidate for the worst six years in the last half century or so.

Michael Buchanan,
The worst 6 years in "recent history" including the Great Depression and WWII?
Posted by: Chuck on November 3, 2006 at 7:29 PM |

Posted by: keith on November 4, 2006 at 4:19 AM | PERMALINK

What a huge bunch of bullshit chaff thrown up by the most culpable neocon idiots alive today.

Let me get this straight. The reason we failed in Iraq was because of Laura Bush, Karen Hughes (excuse me, wasn't she still in TEXAS when we invaded?), uh, Condi Rice (who I believe is incompetent, at best) and some other White House women I forget. Maybe it's Karl Rove's secretary's fault! Maybe it's Harriet Miers!

And even though Mr. Kiss Ass Neocon has been to ALL of Rumsfeld's FIVE homes (?????) he's so surprised that the wonderful host who had his servants pour him the finest wine, cook him the most wonderful dinner, turn down his bed with the extra special Godiva chocolate on the pillow...he's so perplexed how this this man could have been so incompetent in running the war. Dude, he makes a GREAT hotelier, but not so good a guardian of our soldier's lives.

What a bunch of utter claptrap!

The only way I could finish reading this tidbit without gouging out my eyes was to remember that we must be at SOME sort of a frickin turning point when David Frum, the ultimate bootlicking Repub apologist, turns on Bush.

At least I hope so.

Posted by: naversca on November 4, 2006 at 4:47 AM | PERMALINK

Chuck: I thought unwaivering consistency used to be a virture. Didn't Ben Franklin write something about that once?

No, as Scott C. pointed out, that was Emerson. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.

Sparko: The only reason he can stand in one place while moving his mouth in the direction of cameras is because he is nailed to his perch. In sum, he has the mind of a dead parrot.

He's not dead; he's just resting after a long squawk.

Posted by: anandine on November 4, 2006 at 5:42 AM | PERMALINK

Shorter David Frum: "If I were king of the forest."

Posted by: Tilli (Mojave Desert) on November 4, 2006 at 6:02 AM | PERMALINK

As Chuck pointed out, to say that Bush didn't adopt Frum's ideas may mean that he stuck to his own ideas.

A president who says one thing while believing another shouldn't be president.

Posted by: tomeck on November 4, 2006 at 6:48 AM | PERMALINK

'you can't polish a turd'

'stupid is as stupid does'
.

Posted by: yowzer on November 4, 2006 at 7:47 AM | PERMALINK

POOR David Frum...having watched and listened to him on many occasions I fear he's, quite by accident, "spoken the TRUTH"!! But now HOW do we explain the other dunderheads? It's about the POWER and the MONEY...still one of my favorites: With Repugs it's THE ELEPHANT OVER THE EAGLE and the DOLLAR SIGN UBER ALLES!!!!! Their frantic and nasty gallup to the finish line (with all their hypocritical little providers falling out of their closets) would be an absolute JOY to watch were it not for the ultimate danger still before our country. I remain unable to feel confident but watching folks like FRUM dance around just how they'll spin things on Wednesday - setting up their "DON'T BLAME ME" positions - helps just a bit!

Posted by: Dancer on November 4, 2006 at 8:00 AM | PERMALINK

makes the years 2000-2006 an excellent candidate for the worst six years in the last half century or so.

Absurd.

The Europeans wish they had it so bad.

During the entire period the USA continued it's post Reagan practice of growing at 2x's the rate extending an already large gap in living standards. Today per capital income in the EU is only 2/3's USA levels and falling rapidly to 1/2. You think they hate us now. It's just getting started.

Worse for the EU is during this period Americans learned more about how tragically and thoroughly corrupt your UN is and how pathetic UN efforts such as Kyoto and the sanctions on Iraq have been. GWB has removed ALL but a few support troops from Europe and closed almost all bases. There will be no more grand alliances across the Atlantic as NATO was meant to suggest. This is now merely a shell for coalitions of the willing. As Rumsfeld has so clearly articulated the (US) mission will determine the coalition. The (EU) coalition will NOT determine the coalition.

Also during this period we've had repeated confirmation of the certain disaster to come via Europes consistently dropping birth rates. Where the bottom is no one knows. But we do know the 'native' populations will shrink and will shrink quite rapidly. Spain, Italy and Greece to name just three will not be majority Spanish, Italian or Greek in 75 years.

Eurabia is coming and we see it in the streets of France. The police are at war with Islam and the streets are on fire. Europeans have already ceded enough ground to cede their culture and they are quite ready to cede more. The surrender is well under way.

Meanwhile the US announces a 4.4% unemployment rate. Since August 2003, more than 6.8 million jobs have been created - more jobs than all the other major industrialized countries combined. Our economy has now added jobs for 38 straight months.

We are a fine tuned machine hummong along. The significant of August 03 is obviously the Bush supply-side tax cuts. Europe is so screwed up they are STILL talking and enacting tax increases. They are not capable of 'getting it'.

The fact is GWB removed all troops from the EU and is reducing the diplomatic staff because they've become a major liability. We have 'cut bait' as they say. There will be no putting humpty back together again. We are so strong economically and so powerful militarily they can only slow us down. They must face the Islamic threat on their own. They will almost certainly fail and we will certainly be immune.

2000 - 2006 will prove to be a very good period. The popping of the Clinton bubble and the resurgence of American dominance. France is nothing more than a yapping poodle nipping at our heels. They've gone from being allies to becoming entertainment.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 8:26 AM | PERMALINK

THE ELEPHANT OVER THE EAGLE and the DOLLAR SIGN UBER ALLES!!!!!

Dancer you want to stock up on your prozac.

Forget the allies thing. As Chuchill explained, "Nations have permanent interests, not permanent friends". (Or was it Kissinger?) We are in a period of shifting interests and be very happy the adults are in charge. Europe has been the site of Two WW's and they are on fire again. We will not get as close this time.

Don't get your hopes up too high for this election. You will win a few seats and may claim control of one of the houses but the folks you are electing are not liberals. Bob Casey will beat Rick Santorum and be the most conservative Senator from PA by a wide margin. The country will not get more conservative this election but the Democratic party will absolutely get more conservative. Chuck Schumer can recognize reality.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 8:40 AM | PERMALINK

The media is largely responsible for the success of George Bush and the fact they would lie about John Kerry to reinact 2004 because they are lazy pigs doesn't make me feel good about our future

Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker on November 4, 2006 at 8:51 AM | PERMALINK

An extract from the Italian radio, about the middle of 1942, describing life in London:

"Five shillings were given for one egg yesterday, and one pound sterling for a kilogram of potatoes. Rice has disappeared, even from the Black Market, and peas have become the prerogative of millionaires. There is no sugar on the market, although small quantities are still to be found at prohibitive prices."

One day there will be a big, careful, scientific enquiry into the extent to which propaganda is believed. For instance, what is the effect of an item like the one above, which is fairly typical of the Fascist radio?

Excerpt from George Orwell As I Please June 2, 1944

Posted by: bellumregio on November 4, 2006 at 8:52 AM | PERMALINK

Frum was the proud coiner of the phrase "axis of evil".

Frum didn't even come up with the infamous "axis of evil." He admitted in an interview that his phrase was "axis of hate," and that the preznit himself changed "hate" to "evil" (others speculate that it was more likely speechwriter Michael Gerson).

So his entire career now rests on having come up with two words of a three word phrase, and one of them is a preposition. Not bad, eh?

For additional Frummery, maybe even more pathetic.

Posted by: R. Porrofatto on November 4, 2006 at 9:03 AM | PERMALINK

"Since August 2003, more than 6.8 million jobs have been created . . . "

Hmm. 6.8 million jobs over three years, in a nation of 300 million. That's a rate of less than 2% per year. And, of course, this growth was preceded by a period of job losses, so many of these jobs were just recovery from the Bush recession that preceded the date rdw conveniently chooses to start with.

Smarter trolls, please.

Posted by: Joel on November 4, 2006 at 9:05 AM | PERMALINK

chuck: Bush has rock-solid principles


"We will stay the course." - GWB Salt Lake City, Utah 8/30/06

"Weve never been stay the course." - GWB on ABC 10/22/06

Posted by: mr. irony on November 4, 2006 at 9:17 AM | PERMALINK

Sure, Kevin, but you added a lot more by way of implication. It is just as plasuible that Frum finally realized that Bush has rock-solid principles and inserting his own were not gaining any traction. I thought unwaivering consistency used to be a virture. Didn't Ben Franklin write something about that once?

(addressed in reverse order)

Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

Frum's picture is of a person who says something to be saying something. If Bush were a man of constancy, he'd have told Frum what he wanted said. Or have done without a speech writer and written the words himself.

Posted by: Jeffrey Davis on November 4, 2006 at 9:23 AM | PERMALINK

Fifteen minutes is so hard to give up for Mr. Frum.

"Stupid is as stupid does"

How apt that comment - Immediately followed from The Doofus of Drexel Hill.

Sorry, Dimwit - Far more important events today - The Breeder's Cup from Churchill Downs and even college game day. So, feel free to waste your efforts here - You will Never change one vote at this site - So TypeFuck away.

And tomorrow, since I have already voted Democratic here in Oregon, I think I will write in Borat for the Nicaraugan elections.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on November 4, 2006 at 9:35 AM | PERMALINK


chuck: The worst 6 years in "recent history" including the Great Depression and WWII?


you mean last century?

Posted by: mr. irony on November 4, 2006 at 9:48 AM | PERMALINK


brian: Wow, Frum is suddenly credible around here.


what's really funny is to hear dead ender bush supporters quoting clinton..

a guy they called a liar for 8-years..

as proof of how dangerous saddam was..

when at the time clinton used those words...

republicans ignored him..

Posted by: mr. irony on November 4, 2006 at 9:55 AM | PERMALINK

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Posted by: 手机图片 on November 4, 2006 at 10:01 AM | PERMALINK

Okay, how about a Haiku David Frum:

Frum then: Bush can learn
Frum now: I was wrong
Time is the greatest teacher

Posted by: Jose Padilla on November 4, 2006 at 10:04 AM | PERMALINK

David Frum is wonder what went wrong.

And this from over at Eschaton:

Perle tells Rose that, at the end of the day, you have to hold the president responsible.... I dont think he realized the extent of the opposition within his own administration, and the disloyalty.... [Bush] did not make decisions, in part because the machinery of government that he nominally ran was actually running him.

It's got to a very bad sign when the PNAC starts running from it's own project.

Who's asking questions, who's wanting answers? It isn't liberals that Perle wants to re-direct. Perle always knew that Bush was nothing more that the presidental face, the whole damn administration did, but now that things have gone so totally awry, Perle wants to make sure the presidental face gets the full blame. It is the price of allowing youself to become a complete tool of others whims while pretending to be a leader.

David Frum is saying the same thing, Bush just can't lead, but of course Bush was never intended to lead. Bush must like living dangerously, because at not time in Bush's short little presidently face history, does the party have such a desperate need to scrub out the face of voter disenchantment.

Posted by: Cheryl on November 4, 2006 at 10:06 AM | PERMALINK

so many of these jobs were just recovery from the Bush recession that preceded the date rdw conveniently chooses to start with.


The convenient date was the effective start date of the supply-side tax cuts. Reagan rules my friend! Franklin Who? We're all supply-siders now

BTW: It wasn't the Bush recession but the Clinton bubble bursting. It's too bad for Libs but economics does follow certain rules and recessions that start 6 weeks into a term are credited to the prior term. That would be Slick Willie. Yes we do know when the economic downturn began, when the stock averages started falling AND when all of the frauds occured. They don't call him Slick Willie for nuttin!

In fact this eonomic story transcends politics. It's about supply-side theory and the power of tax cuts and we have yet another real world example of their power. We've created more jobs in the last 3 years than ALL of Europe. Yes indeed the rich (Americans) do get richer.

If you think our European friends are pissed at us now just wait another decade. They see us building huge houses to fit all of this crap in. You can't fit a 2006 TV in a 1980 house without modifications. 3-car garages are standard and they're still not enough. They hear us telling them to stick Kyoto up their asses and can't say word because we're cleaner than they are.

Say what you will about GWB. He might not be Albert Einstein but he has withdrawn from Europe and he has driven USA support for the UN and EU into the toilet. Unemployment is 4.4%. We have money coming out our ears. And we'll never join Kyoto.

You don't have to like George but you do have to respect his accomplishments.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 10:08 AM | PERMALINK

republicrat: You will accept any criticism of Bush and the Republicans no matter how thoughtless it might be.


wonder how much the rev. jerry falwell made on that video tape he sold in the 1990's claiming that clinton was a murderer and drug dealer?

business in president-hating sure was good back then...

but its just irrational now?

Posted by: mr. irony on November 4, 2006 at 10:09 AM | PERMALINK

How about a limerick for David Frum

An arrogant pundit named Frum
Thought he had Bush under his thumb.
But, things in Iraq
Began to look black,
So Frum proclaimed Bush was a bum.

Posted by: ex-liberal on November 4, 2006 at 10:29 AM | PERMALINK

"....Canadians are all liberals to their marrow"

Yeah, those traitorous liberal Canadians are at fault for all this.Blame Canada......how Republican.

Posted by: Albert on November 4, 2006 at 10:33 AM | PERMALINK

BTW: It wasn't the Bush recession but the Clinton bubble bursting.

Bush's stewardship (or lack thereof, as the case is) during the collapse of the bubble has led to 4 years of economic blahs. If there was a 'Clinton Recession' - it certainly should have been over by 2002 (considering the massive spending Bush has done). Coming out of the Great Depression after years of Republican misrule, it was massive government spending that restarted the economy. But Bush has proved that you can STILL spend massive amounts of money, and not accomplish jack squat.

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on November 4, 2006 at 10:37 AM | PERMALINK

Albert Speer has just informed Hitler that he has ignored the Fuhrer's orders to blow up Germany's infrastructure, and Hitler now realizes that he has been betrayed by everyone (except Goebbels).

That's where you wingnuts are today. You're Goebbels (or his wife, Magda). You can choose the gun or the cyanide.

Posted by: Speed on November 4, 2006 at 10:40 AM | PERMALINK

Coming out of the Great Depression after years of Republican misrule, it was massive government spending that restarted the economy

The depression did not end due to economic policies. It ended due to the massive war spending.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 10:42 AM | PERMALINK

"If a religious leader has a personal inclination toward homosexuality - and nonetheless can look past his own inclination to defend the institution of marriage and to affirm its benefits for the raising of children - why should he likewise not be honored for his intellectual firmness and moral integrity?" - David Frum on National Review.

After reading this - well - I can take pleasure in the "Neocons eating their own" bit they're doing on Bush. But at the end of the day, Neocons are still fucking assholes. End justifies the means, eh?

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on November 4, 2006 at 10:42 AM | PERMALINK

An editorial in the Army Times scheduled to appear Monday:

Rumsfeld has lost credibility with the uniformed leadership, with the troops, with Congress and with the public at large. His strategy has failed, and his ability to lead is compromised. And although the blame for our failures in Iraq rests with the secretary, it will be the troops who bear its brunt.
This is not about the midterm elections. Regardless of which party wins Nov. 7, the time has come, Mr. President, to face the hard bruising truth:
Donald Rumsfeld must go.
Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on November 4, 2006 at 10:47 AM | PERMALINK

And, poor George, after spending all of that money so he could hit a button and be able to say to Donald, "Doofus Three, this is Doofus One, Over"

Posted by: thethirdPaul on November 4, 2006 at 10:55 AM | PERMALINK

btw: this YouTube video is fucking awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr5tx0lcyQc

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on November 4, 2006 at 10:56 AM | PERMALINK

o_b_f - we have to be honest regarding the economic downturn that took place in 2000+.
The numbers started showing a short time after Bush was sworn in. And in some respects the start of the downturn can be placed before the end of Clinton's term.
So let's just admit that the economic slide started as soon as it looked like Bush might have won the election. And it deepened as the Florida count cases were called in Bush's favor.
So while things started going pear-shaped while Clinton was in office, we can blame it on Bush. The people running the primary economic drivers knew what was coming and started entrenching as soon as it seemed likely that GW was going to be in charge.

Posted by: kenga on November 4, 2006 at 10:57 AM | PERMALINK

Bush's stewardship (or lack thereof, as the case is) during the collapse of the bubble has led to 4 years of economic blahs.

GWB will do very well on his economic management. The recession, asset bubble and accounting scandals were without question Clintons. In addition the economy suffered a 4th blow due to 9/11. Few Presidents have suffered such diasters and we can add to that the Oil price spike.

Yet here we are in 2006 with 4.4% unemployment, a record Dow and tremendous GDP growth versus the rest of the world, especially Europe. Moveover the impact of his free trade policies are just beginning to be felt. No President has been as aggressive in this regard including Reagan. We have low inflation, low interest rates low unemployment and great wealth.

Just take a look at France and the rest of Europe. GDP growth over 2% is a stunning success. Here was ask what's wronf. Their relative trajectory versus the USA is devastating. They fall behind more each year AT A FASTER RATE each year.

Just consider the tyranny of the math. Per capital GDP in the EU is only 2/3's USA levels. We are growing almost 2x's as fast. Thus per capital income is growing much more than 2x's as quickly. At this rate we're going to find USA per capital income is DOUBLE EU per capita income in 2020 and the pain hardly stops there.

Hate to tell you my friend but Europe is quite literally chocking on our exhaust. Fortunately, because we told them to cram Kyoto our exhaust is also much cleaner than their exhaust. Yes we are exporting jobs overseas. No they re not going to Europe. Yes they are going to India and Australia and Mexico and China and Indonesia. The same places our other exports at going.

If you want the perfect metaphor for our relationship with Europe look to Intel's historical geographic sales. I don't have the exact numbers but these estimaes are close. In 1924 over 30% of Intels sales were to Europe and lss than 15% to Asia. In 2006 sales to Asia will exceed 60% while sales to Europe will be near 15%.

The business of America is business. It is not in Europe.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 11:01 AM | PERMALINK

So while things started going pear-shaped while Clinton was in office, we can blame it on Bush

Political hacks can and will blame it on Clinton. That's what hacks do. Economists with reputations to uphold will state the obvious. Clinton left a mess.

Not that any of this is a huge deal regarding legacy. Clinton has a legacy and it's named Monica. Few Presidents come into office promising signfiicant economic changes and/or result's. Clinton spoke of middle class tax cuts during his campaign and said the economy was a wreck. In fact the data was quite good and he didn't cut taxes. He raised them and lost 58 House seats in 1994.

GWB came into office and promised lower tax cuts and delivered them. If you recall Gore promised no tax cuts and then small tax cuts and then bigger tax cuts. We now have 4.4% unemployment and record wealth levels.

Even so these two men pale with the Great Ronald Reagan who promised massive tax cuts and delivered them totally revamping the tax code and did so with a hostile house. I'm sure you remember the disaster of Jimmy Carter with massive unemployment, inflation and interest rates as well as the hostage and Oil criseses. Reagan ended all that within 2 years.

Clinton and GWB toyed with tax rates. Reagan dropped them from 70% to 28%. Now that's a legacy. We're all supply-siders now.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 11:12 AM | PERMALINK

rdw:

Tell our children how glorious the Bush economy is and why they are now saddled with billions of dollars in debt so that rich people and oil companies could get a tax break under these corrupt Republicans. Those tax breaks aren't free money, asshole. They have to be paid back.

Stop stealing from our children!!!

TCD

P.S. The Dow Jones Industrial Average is barely higher than when Bill Clinton was president and the NASDAQ still isn't back to where it was. Job growth is paltry compared to Clinton. In short, Bush's economic policies are HUGE, HUGE failures!

Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on November 4, 2006 at 11:18 AM | PERMALINK

It's good to know that when I we need to keep in touch with what the deadenders are thinking rdw makes sure we've got the latest gloss from planet wingnut.

Posted by: obscure on November 4, 2006 at 11:22 AM | PERMALINK

rdw, it is perfectly clear that you haven't the slightest idea of what you're talking about.

let's start with "supply-side tax cuts." supply-side thinking calls for two things: lower marginal tax rates at the high end in order to improve incentives for work AND a reduction in the government's size of the economy.

lower marginal ax rates at the high end accompanied by higher government spending and a major general fund deficit (masked by the theft of the social security surplus) is merely keynesian stimulus as practiced by people aiming at redistributing after-tax income upwards. it's not supply side in the slightest: indeed, unpaid-for government spending is merely a deferred tax bill.

nor was the 2001 tax cut in any fundamental way different, so no, you don't get to start counting in august. indeed, since you make a big deal out of jobs created since august, 2003, it's worth noting that the bush promise for the 2003 tax cut was 5.5M new jobs between july 1, 2003 and december 31, 2004. in reality, we had about half that number in that span, so on their own benchmark, the tax cuts failed to deliver.

meanwhile, 9/11 did not cause any recession or any economic problems of national import: the recession ended on 9/30/01. it takes a propagandist to claim that 9/11 was an economic problem.

further, there was no asset bubble under clinton; that's been taking place in housing and commodities under bush, and as the housing bubble cracks, the lack of an investment foundation to the bush-era expansion is being exposed (fixed investment, rdw, was much higher during the clinton years than it has been under bush).

meanwhile, you might want to ask yourself whether more vacation and guaranteed healthcare aren't simply valued much higher by the europeans than an eocnomic system where the benefits flow so heavily to the upper one-tenth of one percent of households. you might also notice that, on a per-capita basis, many european nations gdp is relatively (pllus-or-minus 15%) close to ours.

the bush years have been awful years: mediocre gdp growth and phony supply-side tax cuts don't change that. neither does deranged hatred of europeans.

Posted by: howard on November 4, 2006 at 11:23 AM | PERMALINK

Total Information Awareness now called Tangram,

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/10/total_informati.html

Posted by: cld on November 4, 2006 at 11:44 AM | PERMALINK

Ingenious essay on why data-mining for terrorists is a bad idea,

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/03/data_mining_for.html

Data mining is like searching for a needle in a haystack. There are 900 million credit cards in circulation in the United States. According to the FTC September 2003 Identity Theft Survey Report, about 1% (10 million) cards are stolen and fraudulently used each year. Terrorism is different. There are trillions of connections between people and events -- things that the data mining system will have to "look at" -- and very few plots. This rarity makes even accurate identification systems useless.

Let's look at some numbers. We'll be optimistic. We'll assume the system has a 1 in 100 false positive rate (99% accurate), and a 1 in 1,000 false negative rate (99.9% accurate).

Assume one trillion possible indicators to sift through: that's about ten events -- e-mails, phone calls, purchases, web surfings, whatever -- per person in the U.S. per day. Also assume that 10 of them are actually terrorists plotting.

This unrealistically-accurate system will generate one billion false alarms for every real terrorist plot it uncovers. Every day of every year, the police will have to investigate 27 million potential plots in order to find the one real terrorist plot per month. Raise that false-positive accuracy to an absurd 99.9999% and you're still chasing 2,750 false alarms per day -- but that will inevitably raise your false negatives, and you're going to miss some of those ten real plots.

Posted by: cld on November 4, 2006 at 11:53 AM | PERMALINK

meanwhile, 9/11 did not cause any recession or any economic problems of national import: the recession ended on 9/30/01. it takes a propagandist to claim that 9/11 was an economic problem.

You make my point twit. It was a severe blow to the country and yet thanks to deft economic management it was not a serious blow economically.

In fact is was a classic case of a flu going around and the USA getting a mild case of sniffles and Europe getting sick in bed.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 11:53 AM | PERMALINK

Howard fisks rdw. Excellent job.

Posted by: Joel on November 4, 2006 at 11:58 AM | PERMALINK

thanks, joel!

rdw, don't be deranged: what kind of "deft economic management" took place in 19 days?

the simple fact is that 9/11 was a very minor economic event: it was a profound strategic event, but that doesn't mean that you get to hijack it into an economic event. that's just right-wing propaganda, as i noted.

got any responses rooted in reality?

Posted by: howard on November 4, 2006 at 12:02 PM | PERMALINK

lower marginal tax rates at the high end in order to improve incentives for work AND a reduction in the government's size of the economy.

Supply-side says NOTHING about cuts at the HIGH end. Supply-side is about cuts along the ENTIRE spectrum.

Neither is supply-side directly concerned about govt. By cutting taxes you are increasing revenues available to the private sector thereby growing the private sector relative to govt. This is why the role of govt in the US economy is somewhere near 20% versus over 50% for much of Europe. This is why the USA is the worlds mecca for innovation and Europe is a relative wasteland.

France is on fire in part because they cannot create jobs. We have 4.4% unemployment. Thought by most economists to be unsustainably low.

I just left my daughters soccer game. Her High School was just built on 50 acres. All 3 high schools in the district have all weather football/ soccer / lacrosse turfs in the middle of a world class olympic sized all weather track. The stands sit approximately 2,000. This is STANDARD in the region. They have another dozen practice fields and tennis courts and several indoor Gyms.

Our wealth is simply stunning.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 12:04 PM | PERMALINK

is merely keynesian stimulus as practiced by people aiming at redistributing after-tax income upwards.

It is the exact opposite of Keynesian stimulus. Maynard, long dead, is now forgotten. We're all supply-siders now. You must be over 40. To even know of him. Or else you've taken economic classes and they covered history.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 12:07 PM | PERMALINK

further, there was no asset bubble under clinton

5,000 on the NASD wasn't a bubble?

It most certainly was and it most certainly peaked well before he left office as did ALL indexes.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 12:08 PM | PERMALINK

So let's just admit that the economic slide started as soon as it looked like Bush might have won the election.

It's true that Bush was talking down the economy during the election, before there was any clear sign that the economy was in decline.

And it's also true that in 1996 - talk of a Stock Market bubble was rampant, and it went on for 4 years after that. But you can't blame Clinton. You can blame the Republican Congress, who relaxed financial reporting restrictions, allowing corporations to commit massive fraud to perpetuate the pump-and-dump scheme.

Clinton vetoed this action by the Republican Congress. It was Clinton's FIRST veto. And the Corrupt crony-capitalist Republican Congress overrode him. The result? Enron times 10,000. We had healthy growth before this. The "Bubble" (ie. irrational overvaluation of stocks by misinformed investors) was caused by Republican policies. Yes - Enron got so greedy that they got reckless and got caught. The same accounting practices were widespread - particularly in the dotcom startups of the late 1990's thru 2001. Pump and dump schemes. Get-rich-quick schemes. Cheat grandma out of her retirement money schemes. Only a few were ever caught. Only the few most obvious. Bush TRIED to protect Enron by allowing them to rape the California economy, in a lame attempt to get their numbers up to where Ken Lay claimed they were. We know Bush covered for them, because he publicly stated that the crisis was a market problem, and the market should sort it out. (Just like New Orleans was a drainage problem, and he let "gravity" and the "law of the jungle" sort it out.)

It was a severe blow to the country and yet thanks to deft economic management it was not a serious blow economically.

No - thanks to the fact that it was overblown and hyped up in the media, it was not a serious blow, economically. When 2500 stock scammers die in a building collapse, the productivity of the economy will INCREASE. The great tragedy of 9/11 was the loss of an FBI office full of evidence of massive stock fraud from ongoing investigations. Those criminals will never be caught and punished. How convenient for them. How convenient for them that bin Laden was an Economics Major. How convenient for them that the bin Laden Group is a major player in global investment and construction, and partner in the Carlyle Group - where GHWB is also partner. How convenient that there was a huge spike in AMR and UAL PUT options the morning of 9/11. How convenient that the mainstream Corporate Media consistently covers these inconvenient facts up.

Crony Capitalism, and the Deregulation they paid for, is what hurts our economy and causes recessions. Republican Culture of Corruption.

Our economy is 2/3 driven by Consumer Spending. So why are the supply-siders surprised that when you hurt the consumers by scamming them, and laying them off, that you also hurt the economy? Why? Because they can't see past their own greed.

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on November 4, 2006 at 12:12 PM | PERMALINK

meanwhile, you might want to ask yourself whether more vacation and guaranteed healthcare aren't simply valued much higher by the europeans

The Europeans have no choice. They always knew they could never compete with the USA. What they did not appreciate was the collapse of socialism and the economic explosion in Asia. They most certainly did not count on collapsing birth rates and a huge embittered minoroty population with very different opinions regarding tolerance.

The collapsing birth rates is their own vote on their own future. They have none. The world knows their welfare states are unsustainable as do they. Thus as Jimmy Carter would explain, the malaise.

They have 10% unemployment and almost no growth. They depend on the USA for innovation especially in health care. They import bodies from North Africa to take care of their elderly and still they get wiped out if it gets too hot. Europe is sick and for the 1st time in 80 years they won't be rescued by the USA. They are on their own.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 12:17 PM | PERMALINK

It was all Rice's fault.

Perle said "you have to hold the president responsible" because he didn't recognize "disloyalty" by some in the administration. He said the White House's National Security Council, then run by now-Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, did not serve Bush properly.

A year before the war, Adelman predicted demolishing Saddam's military power and liberating Iraq would be a "cakewalk." But he told the magazine he was mistaken in his high opinion of Bush's national security .

"They turned out to be among the most incompetent teams in the postwar era," he said. "Not only did each of them, individually, have enormous flaws, but together they were deadly, dysfunctional."

Deadly, dysfunctional Rice gets both barrels from Hillary AND then Perle too. Why is Sen. Boxer consider such a partisan when the Richard Perle declares Rice was impugning her own integrity.

Heckuva job Rice, heckuva job Bush, heckuva job Perle. Hey, it sure looks like the big picture is a completely dysfunctional GOP leadership.

And the GOP though that Kerry was the big story. I'm sure that Perle was just trying to make a joke about the Democratic Party.

I wonder, is Richard going to write a book, "How Rice was deadly, dysfunctional in lead up to war." It's bound to be a best seller.

Posted by: Cheryl on November 4, 2006 at 12:20 PM | PERMALINK

you might also notice that, on a per-capita basis, many european nations gdp is relatively (pllus-or-minus 15%) close to ours

Are you crazy?

On a per capital basis it's worse!

Not only that the gap widens each year at a faster rate. Do you know anything of math?

USA per capita income is about $43K. We'll grow about 3.3% in 2006. That adds about $1,420 to per capita income.

EU per capita income is near $27K. I'm not sure of EU fprecasts but Western Europe is expected to grow near 1.6%. That's $432.

$1,420 / $432 = 3.28x's as much growth.

This is only going to get worse EVERY YEAR!

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 12:21 PM | PERMALINK

Wait, wait, I think the Bush adminsitration has come up with new bumper sticker?

Vote Rice, deadly, dysfunctional for PrezNUT 2008.

Posted by: Cheryl on November 4, 2006 at 12:27 PM | PERMALINK

I just left my daughters soccer game. Her High School was just built on 50 acres. All 3 high schools in the district have all weather football/ soccer / lacrosse turfs in the middle of a world class olympic sized all weather track. The stands sit approximately 2,000. This is STANDARD in the region. They have another dozen practice fields and tennis courts and several indoor Gyms.
Our wealth is simply stunning.
Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 12:04 PM | PERMALINK

That's not wealth, you moron. It's excess. How does that build a future for your daughter, so she can compete with the rest of the world, economically?

A new well-equipped science lab, or library would be evidence of wealth - wisely re-invested in our future.

A new sports complex is evidence that the oligarchs are willing to keep hyping their monopolistic sports-franchises so that kids will spend their time and effort doing things that will ultimately, not challenge the dominance of the oligarch's money-machine. The Church Of The Money God is perfectly willing to spend their money on grand temples to their glory, so you can continue to worship them.

I hope your daughter does well in Soccer, and I look forward even to watching her winning a completely irrelevant Gold Medal for the US Soccer Team in the Olympics one day. While the rest of your countrymen are economic slaves to China because of the debt that Bush racked up, and the lack of investment in scientific research and education, which will ultimately mean our demise as a global leader.

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on November 4, 2006 at 12:32 PM | PERMALINK

Hopefully, one these days, Patick Fitzgerald will write about book about how the "PNAC was a GOP Pyramid Scheme" and actually "book" everyone that was a party to it.

Posted by: Cheryl on November 4, 2006 at 12:34 PM | PERMALINK

unwaivering consistency used to be a virture. Didn't Ben Franklin write something about that once?
I'd be surprised. In a piece I read a long time ago, Franklin was talking about how your ideas should change as you get older and know more. He used the example of a religious group who refused to write down anything, since it would force them to hue to that, and not be allowed to grow.
Consistency is only useful when you're right. Otherwise it's just obstinant.

Posted by: Mike B. on November 4, 2006 at 12:43 PM | PERMALINK

" On a per capital basis it's worse! . . . EU per capita income is near $27K."

Most of the nations of "old Europe" are all above $27K, rdw:

List of the top 20 countries by GDP (nominal) per capita for 2005:

1 Luxembourg 80,288
2 Norway 64,193
3 Iceland 52,764
4 Switzerland 50,532
5 Ireland 48,604
6 Denmark 47,984
7 Qatar 43,110
8 United States 42,000
9 Sweden 39,694
10 Netherlands 38,618
11 Finland 37,504
12 Austria 37,117
13 United Kingdom 37,023
14 Japan 35,757
15 Belgium 35,712
16 Canada 35,133
17 Australia 34,740
18 France 33,918
19 Germany 33,854
20 Italy 30,200

http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-countries-by-gdp-nominal-per-capita

"This is only going to get worse EVERY YEAR!"

Perhaps for another three or four years, until the boomers retire in earnest. Then look for the Europeans to pull ahead.

Posted by: Joel on November 4, 2006 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

Most of the nations of "old Europe" are all above $27K, rdw:

rdw is a well known "fake data" troll. His purpose is to throw out reams of false data to support his ridiculous arguments, so as to encourage you to waste your time verifying his data. (I especially like his argument that everyone is a supply-sider now -- shit, the supply-siders aren't even supply-siders anymore). Ignore him.

Posted by: Disputo on November 4, 2006 at 1:19 PM | PERMALINK

rdw, to start with the obvious, joel (thanks again!) has demonstrated that you don't know what you're talking about. per-cap income is not per-cap gdp. (when you look at working-age population, it gets even better for the europeans.)

on other fronts, you obviously have no idea what supply-side thinking is, it's really that simple. calling tax-cutting supply-side thinking is a joke and demonstrates all by itself that you really shouldn't embarass yourself by entering into this kind of discussion; your approach to the european social contract, so to speak, demonstrates that you have no idea what you're talking about there either, that you hate europe (in fact, i'm expecting a cheese-eating surrender monkeys remarks any comment now!); and a stock market bubble is not an asset bubble. at least learn the terms if you're going to try and play.

Posted by: howard on November 4, 2006 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

"Michael Buchanan,

The worst 6 years in "recent history" including the Great Depression and WWII?"

Yes. At least during those former times of trouble and toil, Americans were asked for and did sacrifice. During the Reign of the Chimperor, the rich were given money and we were all told we could have tax cuts and a war off the books, along with the chocolates and flowers the Iraqis were going to give us, of course.

Never before have we, the American public, been so lied to and manipulated via fear and propaganda. Our national wealth has been sacked by Halliburton. ($45 for a six pack of Coke? Now THAT's supporting the troops!) Our national reputation is in tatters.

Posted by: Cal Gal on November 4, 2006 at 2:15 PM | PERMALINK

"So his entire career now rests on having come up with two words of a three word phrase, and one of them is a preposition. Not bad, eh?"

Yeah, and "Axis" wasn't even that original either.

Posted by: Cal Gal on November 4, 2006 at 2:27 PM | PERMALINK

Mike B:

That should be "hew", not "hue". Homophones can be a bitch.

Posted by: one more picker of nits on November 4, 2006 at 3:54 PM | PERMALINK

Really Dumb Whitemale,
You're just a lonely, loser kid, sitting in Moms basement trying to stir up laughter, right? If not, pathetic drivel must be your game. By the way, without that crummy France, your sorry ass would be speaking the Queens English right now.

Posted by: Ralphy D on November 4, 2006 at 3:57 PM | PERMALINK

Really Dumb Whitemale,
Are you shacking up with American ChickenHawk? Giggle.

Posted by: Ralphy D on November 4, 2006 at 4:02 PM | PERMALINK

And if we're supposed to take birth rates as votes about optimism in the future, I guess Japan doesn't have any, hmmm? And Chad, Mali, and Somalia have the most in the world?

Idiot.

Posted by: grumpy realist on November 4, 2006 at 6:17 PM | PERMALINK

David Frum says he was mis-represented in the Vanity Fair article. He writes

There has been a lot of talk this season about deceptive campaign ads, but the most dishonest document I have seen is this press release from Vanity Fair, highlighted on the Drudge Report. Headlined "Now They Tell Us," it purports to offer an "exclusive" access to "remorseful" former supporters of the Iraq war who will now "play the blame game" with "shocking frankness."

It cites not only myself as one of these remorseful supporters, but also Richard Perle, Ken Adelman, and others.

I can speak only for myself. Obviously I wish the war had gone better. It's true I fear that there is a real danger that the US will lose in Iraq. And yes I do blame a lot that has gone wrong on failures of US policy.

I have made these points literally thousands of times since 2004, beginning in An End to Evil and most recently in my 22-part commentary on Bob Woodward's State of Denial (start here and find the remainder here .) I have argued them on radio and on television and on public lectern, usually in exactly the same words that are quoted in the press release.

"[T]he insurgency has proven it can kill anyone who cooperates, and the United States and its friends have failed to prove that it can protect them."

"I always believed as a speechwriter that if you could persuade the president to commit himself to certain words, he would feel himself committed to the ideas that underlay those words. And the big shock to me has been that although the president said the words, he just did not absorb the ideas. And that is the root of, maybe, everything."

And finally that the errors in Iraq are explained by "failures at the center."

Nothing exclusive there, nothing shocking, and believe me, nothing remorseful.

My most fundamental views on the war in Iraq remain as they were in 2003: The war was right, victory is essential, and defeat would be calamitous.

And that to my knowledge is the view of everybody quoted in the release and the piece: Adelman, Cohen, Ledeen, Perle, Pletka, Rubin, and all the others.

(Not that it matters, but this fight is very personal for many of those people. Cohen and Ledeen have both had children serve in Iraq, Cohen's in the Tenth Mountain Division, Ledeen's daughter in the civil administration and his elder son in the Marines. As a civilian adviser in Iraq, Rubin displayed impressive personal courage living solo for long periods of time in the Shiite zones of east Baghdad.)

Vanity Fair then set my words in its own context in its press release. They added words outside the quote marks to change the plain meaning of quotations.

When I talk in the third quotation above about failures "at the center," for example, I did not mean the president. If I had, I would have said so. At that point in the conversation, I was discussing the National Security Council, whose counter-productive interactions produced bad results.

And when I talked in the second quotation about "persuading the president," I was repeating this point, advanced here last month. In past administrations, the battle for the president's words was a battle for administration policy. But because Bush's National Security Council malfunctioned so badly, the president could say things without action following - because the mechanism for enforcing his words upon the bureaucracy had broken.

In short, Vanity Fair transformed a Washington debate over "how to correct course and win the war" to advance obsessions all their own.

How was this done?

The author of the piece touted by the press release is David Rose, a British journalist well known as a critic of the Saddam Hussein regime and supporter of the Iraq war. (See here and here for just two instances out of a lengthy bibliography.)

Rose has earned a reputation as a truth teller. The same unfortunately cannot be said for the editors and publicists at Vanity Fair. They have repackaged truths that a war-fighting country needs to hear into lies intended to achieve a shabby partisan purpose.

Posted by: ex-liberal on November 4, 2006 at 6:54 PM | PERMALINK

That's not wealth, you moron. It's excess. How does that build a future for your daughter, so she can compete with the rest of the world, economically?

A new well-equipped science lab, or library would be evidence of wealth - wisely re-invested in our future.

It's Saturday you twit. I wasn't in the school library or computer lab or chemistry lab or any of the various machine shops. The school was just built for $62M. That's amazing. This high school, one of three in this district, has better educational AND athletic facilities than Drexel Univbersity had in 1975.

That's what tremendous wealth does.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 7:42 PM | PERMALINK

on top of every other piece of rdw economic idiocy, we now have the notion that a school district that can afford to build this kind of largesse is a function of national wealth and not a function of local taxes.

really, rdw, just keep your mouth closed about matters economic, for you know nothing.

btw, i saved this one up for you just in case you reappeared: after the reagan '81 tax cut, he presided over either 5 or 6 tax increases, which were followed by a bush 41 tax increase and the clinton '93 tax increase, so even by your deluded notion that tax cuts = supply-side economics, we aren't close to all supply siders now.

go cheer for your daughter: it's time better spent than displaying your ignorance here.

Posted by: howard on November 4, 2006 at 7:56 PM | PERMALINK

This is only going to get worse EVERY YEAR!"

Perhaps for another three or four years, until the boomers retire in earnest. Then look for the Europeans to pull ahead.

The retiring boomers will have absolutely no impact on USA GDP. Even if they did the impact in Europe would be far worse due to far older populations and dramatically fewer kids. The work force in the USA will not be shrinking.

The problem for Europe isn't 2006 but this two decade pattern which is not about to change. In fact it's likely to get worse as they raise taxes and become even slower growing. Europe is clearly in dire economic straits.

As you can see from your top 20 the exceptions are Norway because it has a fortune in Oil and Gas, Ireland because it has low taxes and low regulation, Switzerland & Luxemburg for similar and equally unique reasons. My list of purchasing power per capita GDP (CIA Factbook)lists only Norway and Luxemberg above the USA. Denmark is at $34K while Germany, France and the UK are near 30K.

France is screwed. The daily car fires have become bus fires. Unemployment remains above 10% and above 30% among their unassimilated minorities and they have no way of growing as they rapidly age.

I'm guessing we built more houses with 3-car garages in Chester County, PA in the last 5 years than exist in all of France. We're so used to being so wealthy we assume this is universal. The Euruopeans can only dream of the things we take for granted. Sometimes I don't blame them for being bitter.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 8:07 PM | PERMALINK

except, of course, rdw, the europeans aren't bitter. it's asswipes like you that ascribe a bitterness that doesn't exist to the europeans.

and in europe, no one ever goes bankrupt over a medical emergency and people have weeks more vacation than we do. this is simply how they've chosen to use their gdp.

let's also note that chester county, PA is not reflective of america at large. indeed, if you look at what amounts to gdp by state, you discover some very large disparities, because, shockingly enough, oil isn't everywhere in america, either and tax policies are different from state to state as well.

one could go on, but why bother: rdw doesn't understand economics and he doesn't understand europe. i trust he understands soccer, which, of course, is highly popular in europe and is about as cheese-eating surrender monkey a sport as you could imagine, but who's to say?

Posted by: howard on November 4, 2006 at 8:17 PM | PERMALINK

And if we're supposed to take birth rates as votes about optimism in the future, I guess Japan doesn't have any, hmmm? And Chad, Mali, and Somalia have the most in the world?

Absolutely. There are of course the other obvious factors which separate the developed world from the 3rd world but those factors are no relevent in the USA, Europe, Japan, Russia, etc. Here we can see a clear distinction between the religious and the secular world and one of the indicators is optimism. Religious folk are generally far more forward looking and optimistic. Religious folk also have significantly higher birth rates.

Eurabia is a coming fact of life not because Islam is conquering Europe. Europe is literally surrendering. Japan and Russia are not surrendering but they are rapidly downsizing. In the USA we've been blessed with the Zero Population growth types and other smart secular idea's such as abortion. The result is measurably lower birth rates in most blue states versus red states. There's a reason why every 10 years the Red states gain electoral votes.

BTW: I don't have them handy but polls have consistently shown Americans to be more optimistic than Europeans and most Asian cultures.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 8:17 PM | PERMALINK

By the way, without that crummy France, your sorry ass would be speaking the Queens English right now.

We DO speak the Kings English now you twit.


BTW: I am grateful for their help during the Revolutionary War. Just as they are so very grateful for USA help during WWI and WWII and the Cold War. What's the point?

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 8:20 PM | PERMALINK

"The retiring boomers will have absolutely no impact on USA GDP."

Right. In America, retirees just keep increasing their productivity. What a maroon.

"Even if they did the impact in Europe would be far worse due to far older populations and dramatically fewer kids. The work force in the USA will not be shrinking."

If it doesn't, it will be because of immigration, just as it will in Europe. You're such an idiot, rdw.

"In fact it's likely to get worse as they raise taxes and become even slower growing."

To the extent that its true, the same will apply in spades to the US as we have to pay off the drunken defense spending spree of the Bush years and for the underfunded medicaid system for the enormous bolus of boomer retirees. You just don't get it, do you, rdw?

As you can see from your top 20 the exceptions are Norway because it has a fortune in Oil and Gas, Ireland because it has low taxes and low regulation, Switzerland & Luxemburg for similar and equally unique reasons."

And what about Austria, UK, Belgium, France, Germany and Italy?

"Unemployment remains above 10% and above 30% among their unassimilated minorities and they have no way of growing as they rapidly age."

Those of us who remember the race riots of the '60s understand what is going on in France today, rdw. France is "totally screwed" the way the US was totally screwed then--not.

"I'm guessing we built more houses with 3-car garages in Chester County, PA in the last 5 years than exist in all of France."

BWAHAHAhahaha! How many 3-car garages in NYC, rdw? They don't have 3-car garages in France because they have a superior public transporation system. In the future, as peak oil takes hold, the superior investment in public ground transportation throughout Europe will also keep them competitive as the US struggles with balooning petroleum prices.

"Sometimes I don't blame them for being bitter."

In your perfervid imagination, rdw.

Smarter trolls, please.

Posted by: Joel on November 4, 2006 at 8:29 PM | PERMALINK

we now have the notion that a school district that can afford to build this kind of largess is a function of national wealth and not a function of local taxes.

And where would those local taxes come from? That would be the local wealth which if I am not mistaken is part of the national wealth.

I've been fortunate to be able to go to all of her games including 6 other districts. ALL have the football/soccer stadiums with world class artificial turf and 8 lane tracks. ALL have a series of practice fields for both boys and girls facilities including soccer, football, lacrosse, field hockey, baseball, softball, tennis and cross country. That's just the outdoor sports.

I grew up near St Josephs University in West Phila and have seen the explosive growth of EVERY area University and Hospital. St Joes is now at least 4x's the size of it's 1970 footprint with amazing facilities. Last month they announced the construction of a new fieldhouse to seat 10,000 with world class exercise and training facilities available to all students, faculty and alumni. The 'old' fieldhouse will remain in use for the alumni and students as well as for the neighborhood catholic youth leagues.

Our wealth is stunning.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 8:32 PM | PERMALINK

"I grew up near St Josephs University in West Phila . . ."

I've lived in the US all my 51 years. I've been in academia since I entered college in 1973. I've worked at a Jesuit Catholic University for the past 20 years. I've never heard of St. Josephs. I don't know anyone who has. I'm happy to hear it's growing, but 4X insignificant is still insignificant. Maybe that's because it's grown the athletic facilities but not, you know, the academic ones?

Posted by: Joel on November 4, 2006 at 8:48 PM | PERMALINK

Those of us who remember the race riots of the '60s understand what is going on in France today, rdw. France is "totally screwed" the way the US was totally screwed then--not.

I remember the races riots as well. They lasted about 3 weeks and were incredibly stupid. Parts of Philadelphia still have not recovered and in fact large sections have been condemned, torn down and are now part of Temple University or vacant lots. Philly went from a city of 3M to 1.5M and crime sky-rocketed.

It's quite amazing when you think about it. The entire Philly region has almost tripled in size while the city emptied out. Fortunately the region is booming and after 3 decades of sub-par performance PA has had a below average unemployment rate for quite a while.

The race riots were a temporary thing and the US was able to adjust. We have a growing economy and growing, mobile population and a history of assimilation. France is very slow growing. It's citizens are not mobile and has no history of assimilation. Those burning the buses and cars in fact have no desire for assimilation. They want their own jobs and their own culture.

Both sides understand the dynamics. The muslims know they own the future by virture of the raw numbers and a dedicated ideology. Secularists by definition don't believe in anything except tolerance. The muslims in France, and the rest of Europe, are demanding and getting tolerance for their intoleranct religion. Those in charge today have no choice. In their world all cultures are equal. That's why the Danish cartoons can't be printed but Piss Christ is celebrated.

Europe is in full appeasement mode.

The good news is this will buy them time. The bad news is time is their enemy. Already several northern cities such as Rotterdam have school populations which are 40% Islamic and are starting to experience white flight. Not just out of the city but out of Europe. It's estimated in a decade that 40% will be 60% and political control will start to shift in certain regions. White philadephians and black philadelphians shared a christian religion. Frenchmen and their Islamic minorities share nothing.

Europe is dying.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 8:54 PM | PERMALINK

I've worked at a Jesuit Catholic University for the past 20 years. I've never heard of St. Josephs.


From their website

A Jesuit, Catholic university in Philadelphia since 1851.
OFFERINGS

Saint Josephs offers 40 undergraduate majors, 10 additional special-study options, 23 study abroad programs, 53 graduate study areas, and an Ed.D. in Educational Leadership.

ENROLLMENT: 2005-2006

7700 total in all programs (estimated average 2005-06)

They were ranked #1 in basketball two years ago when Jameer Nelson was the NCAAs player of the year.

Don't get out much do you?


Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 9:00 PM | PERMALINK

"I remember the races riots as well. They lasted about 3 weeks and were incredibly stupid."

Uh, no.

1960 Chattanooga, Tennessee
1960 Biloxi, Mississippi
1960 Jacksonville, Florida
1962 Mississippi
1964 Harlem, New York: (1 killed, 100+ wounded)
1964 Rochester, New York: (4 killed, 350 wounded)
1964 Paterson, New Jersey: (100+ wounded)
1964 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
1964 St. Augustine, Florida
1965 Los Angeles: Watts Riots. (35 killed, 1000 wounded)
1966 Los Angeles: Watts again
1967 Newark, New Jersey: (23 killed)
1967 Detroit, Michigan: (43 killed)
1969 York, Pennsylvania: (2 deaths)
1970 Asbury Park, New Jersey: (100 wounded)
1980 A three-day race riot breaks out after an all-white jury acquits four white Miami police officers of killing Arthur McDuffie, a black insurance salesman. The cops had beaten him with their flashlights and billyclubs, and he died in the hospital. 18 fatalities and more than $100 million in property damage are the final result.
1989 Three days of race riots begin in Overtown, Miami when a black man fleeing on motorcycle is killed by a hispanic police officer. 125 blocks are sealed off during the riots.
1992 Los Angeles: Rodney King Riot: (52 killed, 3000 wounded)

By your argument, rdw, the US is dying.

"Already several northern cities such as Rotterdam have school populations which are 40% Islamic and are starting to experience white flight."

My daughter, who is white, goes to a high school that is 85% black. My city survived white flight and is one of the most racially integrated in St. Louis.

You know nothing about history or the real world, rdw. With every post, you demonstrate your ignorance and insularity more vividly.

Smarter trolls, please.

Posted by: Joel on November 4, 2006 at 9:04 PM | PERMALINK

"They were ranked #1 in basketball two years ago when Jameer Nelson was the NCAAs player of the year."

That explains why I never heard of them. I don't follow basketball. I'm a research scientist and professor, so academic excellence is what I pay attention to. Glad to hear the future of American world competitiveness in bastketball is in such good hands. The Europeans must be quaking in their sandals.

Smarter trolls, please.

Posted by: Joel on November 4, 2006 at 9:07 PM | PERMALINK

They don't have 3-car garages in France because they have a superior public transporation system

They don't have a superior transportation system. They don't have 3-car garages because they can't affort cars because they can't afford gas and they can't afford the room for garages.

BTW: My neice just got back from Paris, which she loved, and the most interesting aspect of their love-hate relationship with the US (her term) was the fact they despise our puritanism as regards smoking. She was only there a week but she heard more criticism over the 'fact' we don't 'allow' smoking. She grew tired of telling them it is allowed but not PC.

The 2d interesting insight was how indifferent they are towards marriage. After finding out one of her co-workers had been living with a mate for 10 years she asked if they would ever get married. The response was, "We're not like Americans. We don't like to rush into these things".

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 9:08 PM | PERMALINK

"She was only there a week but she heard more criticism over the 'fact' we don't 'allow' smoking. She grew tired of telling them it is allowed but not PC."

*yawn*

"The 2d interesting insight was how indifferent they are towards marriage."

You and your neice need to get out more, rdw: " . . . traditional marriage has ceased to be the preferred living arrangement in the majority of US households."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061015/ts_alt_afp/afplifestyleussociety

Smarter trolls, please.

Posted by: Joel on November 4, 2006 at 9:18 PM | PERMALINK

I'm a research scientist and professor, so academic excellence is what I pay attention to. Glad to hear the future of American world competitiveness in bastketball is in such good hands. The Europeans must be quaking in their sandals.

Considering you've been working at a Jesuit University for 20 years you must have your head planted firmly up your ass to have never heard of a another Jesuit University that's been operating since 1851.

There's no question the Europeans are quaking in their scandals. There's nothing complicated about simple demographics. Even a research scientist such as yourself can grasp what happens when a population stops reproducing and you've seen the data. You know as well as anyone the data tells us with some certainty how many 20 year old italians there will be in 19 years, in 18 years, in 17 years, etc. and you know it ain't many.

It must really piss you off Kyoto is such a joke in this country too. Is anything going your way?

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 9:19 PM | PERMALINK

"They don't have 3-car garages because they can't affort cars because they can't afford gas and they can't afford the room for garages."

Uh, no. I have colleagues in France, Germany, Switzerland and Austria. They all could have 3-car garages if they really wanted them. None do, nor have any of them expressed the slightest interest in having them. Turns out, most people in and out of the US don't consider the size of their garages to be a measure of weath or success.

Posted by: Joel on November 4, 2006 at 9:21 PM | PERMALINK

"Considering you've been working at a Jesuit University for 20 years you must have your head planted firmly up your ass to have never heard of a another Jesuit University that's been operating since 1851."

Nope. I've heard of all the Jesuit Universities of any consequence. St. Josephs is not one of those.

It must really piss you off that G.W. Bush and his administration is such a joke in this country, too. Is anything going your way?

Posted by: Joel on November 4, 2006 at 9:24 PM | PERMALINK

traditional marriage has ceased to be the preferred living arrangement in the majority of US households

If she just got back from Paris that would suggest she gets around a bit doesn't it?

The dynamics in the US are dramatically different than in Europe. The significant difference in that survey is the majority of unmarried cohabitants were childless couples and they are far from a majority of child-birth age. In Europe these households are a much larger portion of the population and it's quite common for these households to remain unmarried and childless. It might be good for the gene pool but no culture can survive the birthrates we now see in Europe.

You do point to a serious issue in the USA and that's single parent families especially in the black community. The last number I saw was 70% and that's simply devastating. Males raised without a strong father figure have very poor futures. One of the benefits of welfare reform has been a dramatic reduction in single mother welfare recipients having 2nd or 3rd children. Daniel Patrick Monyihan predicted 60's welfare would be a disaster and he was correct. Fortuntely it 'seems' to be over. Unfortunately we still have far too many single parent families.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 9:35 PM | PERMALINK

I'm sorry this is so hard for you, rdw.

The fact that a majority of households in the US are unmarried couple suggests an indifference to marriage in the US. I don't know what you point was concerning your neice (and, no, I don't consider traveling to one city in Europe to be "getting around"), but if it supposed to be indicating a decline in European culture, you blew it.

rdw posts: "There's no question the Europeans are quaking in their scandals."

Actually, there's no question that Republicans are quaking in their scandals.

Smarter trolls, please.

Posted by: Joel on November 4, 2006 at 9:47 PM | PERMALINK
... Europe is literally surrendering.....Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 8:17 PM
Perhaps in your delusional world, but there is now surrender on the part of any European country. Try to pay attention to the fact that Bush's policies have endangered the world, that most people properly regard Bush as being the greatest threat to world peace. Unlike you and your cohorts, the world can see events and Bush realistically. Posted by: Mike on November 4, 2006 at 9:47 PM | PERMALINK

It must really piss you off that G.W. Bush and his administration is such a joke in this country, too. Is anything going your way?

I am quite pleased with GWB. Anyone who can piss off liberals like he has is a star in my world.

Check out the UN, Unions, Kyoto, Newspapers & TV, the Military, the EU, NATO, etc.

UN - polls are in the toilet. For most americans the UN is dead.

UNions - manufacturing unions have lost over 25% of their membership since 2000 and several northern states will lose electoral voted and house seats in the 2010 and 2020 census directly due to the migration of jobs from the union North to non-union south due to GWBs policies.

Kyoto - After the Senate voted 95 - 0 nothing was happening anyway but he poked his finger in every liberal eye by not even pretending to take it seriously. Since then the USA has done a much better job limiting emission than Europe despite a faster growing economy and in starting the Asian-Pacific partnership has created the model for bypassing Kyoto in the future. Kyoto is dead forever.

The MSM is dying. Circulation for most liberals newspapers is down over 10% and Bush has taken to ignoring them during campaigns SUCCESSFULLY. He's been doing Limbuagh and other radio shows while Cheney (Lynn and Dick) Tony Snow, Rummy, Condi and th others use talk radio, the blogs and Fox to bypass the MSM. They were the turning point. They proved it can be done sucessfully. Reagan used to have the editors of the NYTs in for lunch regularly. Bush has called them assholes while ignoring them. Where are you Dan Rather?

Military - It's got to really piss you off grunts are at the top of the food chain and academics just above lawyers at the bottom. This was happening before 9/11 but that event really made it happen. We honor our police, firemen, EMTs and especially our war heroes. Plus they're making some very decent money.

EU/NATO - We are out. GWB has permanently
withdrawn over 100K troops from Europe and closed down most of our bases even returning the leases. We are gone and we are not coming back. More important Rummy has articulated our policy regarding coalitions. The mission will determine the coalition. The coalition will NOT determine the mission. This of course means Europe will not be determining any missions. NATO is over. It's a shell organization available for US use only. As we already knew from Kosovo Europe does not have the capability of managing missions alone. They are too weak,

Korea - I am quite happy here as well. This will be a 6-party deal or there will not be a deal. We're not bribing NK and we're ont enforcing any deal. The partners have much more to lose and they'll carry their weights or suffer the consequences.

Japan - you are of course aware Japan is participating in Star Wars with an initial $1B investment. The most recent radar installation is in Northern Japan and the most recent shop borne test were successfully conducted off Japanese crusiers. Seems they're not happy about NK and they're going to defend themselves. Their new PM was just elected promising to revoke article 9 of their constitution so they can dramatically increase defense spending and redeploy toward offensive weapons. Imagine that, the world 2nd largest economy and 2nd richest democracy becoming the 2nd most powerful military. Maybe GWB isn't so dumb after all.


Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 10:01 PM | PERMALINK

but there is no surrender on the part of any European country

You are of course aware of the brave reaction after the Danish cartoons. They are cowards.

I doubt you been reading of the regular car-b-ques each night or the bus bombings or the attacks on police. I believe over 2,600 have been injured in Islamic confrontations so far this year. And this is just France and they've been the most defensive.

They are not quite surrending just yet. They are in the initial appeasement phase but we know this can only end one way. They are an incredibly tolerant people but they are shrinking. Islam is not at all tolerant. They are increasing rapidly. These are democratic governments.

You tell me what happens when Rotterdam becomes majority islamic and they control political power? This will happen before 2020.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 10:12 PM | PERMALINK

Well, the David Frum thread died early this morning when the Dimwit Doofus from Drexel Hill, rdw, decided to have one of his all day Saturday sessions where he TypeFucks away about nothing. Typical pig ignorant swill about economics, a subject he knows little about and the usual Europe bashing. I'm surprised he didn't quote Paul Balian at length.

Now little Wooten, smoke your cigarette, you have had your organism for the day and be sure to clean your hands or did you do a money shot today?

While you were doing your little TypeFuck session, Kevin actually ran several far more important threads than this one.

Posted by: thethirdPaul on November 4, 2006 at 10:13 PM | PERMALINK

"It's got to really piss you off grunts are at the top of the food chain and academics just above lawyers at the bottom. This was happening before 9/11 but that event really made it happen. We honor our police, firemen, EMTs and especially our war heroes. Plus they're making some very decent money."

ROTFLMAO!!

You are a complete package of ignorance and misinformation, rdw. By what measure are Army infantrymen at the top of any "food chain?" Why is the Army struggling to keep infantrymen in the field, if it's such a desirable position. Why have there been 100-200 applicants for every tenure-track faculty position opening in my department over the past twenty years, if I'm at the bottom of the food chain.

All the professors in my department are making six figure incomes. There are no Army infantrymen who are making six figure incomes.

You are a fool, rdw.

Smarter trolls, please.

Posted by: Joel on November 4, 2006 at 10:18 PM | PERMALINK

The fact that a majority of households in the US are unmarried couple suggests an indifference to marriage in the US.

Reread your own data. The 50.2% majority of unmarried households were not unmarried couples. This includes single parent families which does not suggest indifference. Even those who are unmarried couples are not necessarily unmarried by choice. Many are unmarried because they are still in school or working and without benefits. Since most state medical coverage for kids is designed for single parents it's quite common for couples to delay marriage until one partner has benefits.

As far as childless couples who cares? Marriage is important for proving a loving two-parent home optimum for healthy child-raising.

I personally don't care if these people get married or not. God bless them if they do. God bless them if they don't. I don't see how it effects society.

This thread got started when I mentioned the French couple together for 10 years without getting married. The relevent point wasn't the lack of a marriage certificate but the lack of kids. If this is the common experience in France it's not hard to see why birth rates are so low. How old is she if she's been living with this guy 10 years? 35? She's got to be pretty comfy and pretty well set in her ways. Interrupt all that to have a couple / few brats? I don't think so.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 10:33 PM | PERMALINK

All the professors in my department are making six figure incomes. There are no Army infantrymen who are making six figure incomes.

Who said infantryman? The food chain I was talking about was respect and admiration not money. Why would you compare yourself finacially to the lowest paid and youngest in the military? The libs under Chuckie Schumer have made some major changes this election. When they went looking for candidates they didn't go to academia. They went to the military.

Why do you think that happened?

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 10:39 PM | PERMALINK

Actually, there's no question that Republicans are quaking in their scandals.

Not even a little bit. We'll lose a few seats but we won't lose any to liberals. John Kerry was smart enough to erase the word from his biography. But you were not smart enough to erase him before he was nominated. Schumer IS smart enough. He did not recruit liberals.

Chuck understands the situation. Liberals cannot win nationally and democrats have to shed the liberal tag. The 2010 census will be a disaster. The red states will gain 6 - 10 seats. Chuck would have recruited Ronald Reagan if he was available. He's got to take advantage of the 6th year of a Presidency which averages 40 seat turnovers in order to set up for 2008. Because in 2012 liberals cannot apply.

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 10:53 PM | PERMALINK

Here you go Joel. Here's the future of your party.

In no race might the effects of a Democratic surge be more felt than in the 11th Congressional District, where eight-term GOP Rep. Charles Taylor is trying to withstand a fierce challenge from Democrat Heath Shuler. The local high school football hero and former NFL quarterback is anti-abortion and supports gun rights, making him palatable to conservative residents of the mountain district looking to vote for change

Posted by: rdw on November 4, 2006 at 11:02 PM | PERMALINK

Wow. Four posts in a row from rdw. Nevermind the bogus content. You can smell the desperation. Smells like victory!

Posted by: Joel on November 5, 2006 at 12:03 AM | PERMALINK

rdw, you really are (as joel so accurately notes) completely indifferent to reality. i'll just stick with the last example i dealt with a few hours ago:

you live in a wealthy community, a community so wealthy that it has high schools with vast athletic complexes. this is so extraordinarily atypical for most american communities as to be completely meaningless, and it certainly says absolutely nothing about the wealth of america vs. the wealth of europe. however you could think that it does is beyond me.

i swear, the arguments you read from crazy right-wingers, bound and determined to prove that europe is just so nineteenth century: it's astonishing.

and none of it does a thing to improve the quality of the last 6 years, which is where we came in, despite rdw's attempt to stroll down other lanes spreading horsemanure as he goes....

Posted by: howard on November 5, 2006 at 12:45 AM | PERMALINK

Really Dumb Whitemale,
Obvious to anyone with a brain, I meant you would be speaking the Queens English because without France helping us you would be an English citizen. I bet you were picked on as a child. I think I here your Mommy calling to tuck you in, or is it American ChickenHawk? By the way, Get A Life!, or some self-esteem.

Posted by: Ralphy D on November 5, 2006 at 1:24 AM | PERMALINK

R eally D umb W hitemale,
By the way, is your own life that miserable you have to bash Europeans you know nothing about to feel better about yourself? Sad. Pathetic indeed.

Posted by: Ralphy D on November 5, 2006 at 1:31 AM | PERMALINK

It's a joke.
People like David Frum, at that Very Good School that only money and a few phone calls can buy, read biographies of Churchill and decided that they wanted to grow up to become . . . Brenden Bracken.
God forbid they should go out and actually fight an election and embroil themselves with the kind of people who fix their cars. They wrote their brilliant articles to be noticed, waiting for an empty suit to gain power and then battened onto him, putting words in his mouth until they imagined they were him.
They didn't seem to read the bit about what happened to Bracken when he started to think that way about Churchill and got his own little exile. Now they just sit around, their Sunday mornings always free, waiting for the call from television, waiting in the green room with make-up on, or, better yet, showing up already made up.

Posted by: Steve Paradis on November 5, 2006 at 8:40 AM | PERMALINK

you live in a wealthy community, a community so wealthy that it has high schools with vast athletic complexes. this is so extraordinarily atypical for most american communities as to be completely meaningless

Howard you really are dense. I don't live in a wealthy community. I live in a TYPICAL suburban community. Our district with 3 high schools is no different than ANY of the surrounding districts. The football/soccer/track stadium is STANDARD. The dozen all weather tennis courts are STANDARD. I've been to every away game.

I last ran in the Penn Relays in 1971 on the finest track in the Eastern USA and one of the best in the world. We have 3 high tracks within 10 minutes of my house that are better. There are probably over 100 tracks within 25 miles of the University of PA that are better.

That's America.

Here's something even coooler. The young ladies have equal access to equal facilities and have just as many sports and scholarship potential.

Here's something cooler. Several regional colleges have sports management programs AND exercise physiology programs such that each of the teams have experienced trainers at their games and practices. Injuries are tended to immediately by someone with training and experience and professional rehab is provided at no charge. It's win/win in America. The schools get to provide onsite real world training experiences and the teams get professional level care.

Here's somthing even coooler: That all world track and dozen all weather tennis courts. They're open to the community. The junior HS's hae been able to expand their programs and they've added 'rec' leagues for elementary school kids. They have time blocked off for public use.

As far as the indoor courts so far thery've only expanded access for volleyball with adult leagues. This school hasn't been open a full year. They'll add adult basketball next year and expect to add outdoor basketball and volleyball courts as well.

That's America. The courts belong to us all.

Posted by: rdw on November 5, 2006 at 9:06 AM | PERMALINK

PECO RECRUITING LINEMAN

That's the headline in the daily local. PECO is the old Philadephia Electric Co and lineman are very well paying 'craft' jobs. They also have excellent benefits which is part of their problem. They are facing massive retirements and expect to hire over 200,000 within the next decade.

These are outstanding jobs paying over $65k with full medical and a great retirement package. With overtime a large segment of this force will make over $100K.

What a great time to be an American.

I had a conversation with the manager of my regional Goodyear tire center. He has a nice shop with aobut 8 - 10 full time mechanics. Inquiring for my nephew I asked of they hire kids out of HS. Absolutely but they have to pass a drug test and they have to know to show up on time. If they do that and have a work ethic they'll get all of the free training they want. A good mechanic makes $75K BEFORE counting side work.

This is an amazing country. France hasn't created a private sector job in 3 decades. We've got immigrants streaming across the border and we've got labor shortages.

God Bless Ronald Reagan!

Posted by: rdw on November 5, 2006 at 9:16 AM | PERMALINK

determined to prove that europe is just so nineteenth century

It's 20th Century and it is what it is.

They can't build 3-car garages because they can't afford the land, building material, labor or to own the cars to put in there. It isn't just that they don't have 3 car garages. It's that a 3 car garage would be unthinkable.

Americans are, as the great orator John Kerry would say, the 'can do' people. Of course we have 3 car garages. We have at least 3 cars. Duh! Why wouldn't we have 3-car garages.

Jimmy Carter tried that national malaise crap. Not in America! Are you out of your mind? We do whatever we want to do. The absolute last group of people we'd ever look to for approval would be the Europeans. You can't be remotely aware of their history and record of accomplishment and then decide to emulate them. There's not that much stupid in the world.

BTW: 4 car garages are becoming common.

Posted by: rdw on November 5, 2006 at 9:27 AM | PERMALINK

R eally D umb W hitemale,
It seems 4 car garages and morons go hand in hand. Are you for real? I live in a town with good school systems that are having budget troubles and are starting to cut sports, music, etc., to balance the budget. Homeowners in this locale are already highly taxed to pay for school and guess what?, King George is sending all our money to Iraq as schools flounder under is highly underfunded 'No child left behind act'. It's an act alright. I hear your Mommy calling, breakfast is ready!

Posted by: Ralphy D on November 5, 2006 at 9:49 AM | PERMALINK

Ronald Reagan? We all know Commander Nancy was in charge of that fool!

Posted by: Ralphy D on November 5, 2006 at 9:52 AM | PERMALINK

I live in a town with good school systems that are having budget troubles and are starting to cut sports, music, etc., to balance the budget

Then you elected morons. Throw the bums out! State and local coffers country wide are bursting with cash. Surpluses have never been higher. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

There are isolated exceptions such as the blue north in areas with high taxes, regulation and strong unions but not even many of them. Since the economic center of PA moved from Philly to King of Prussia the state has been doing terrific with a much lower than average unemployment rate. My county and each county touching mine has a rate below 3.5%.


We live in the greatest nation on God's green earth!

Posted by: rdw on November 5, 2006 at 10:13 AM | PERMALINK

We all know Commander Nancy was in charge of that fool!


Nancy and her crack team of astrologist!

Who cares?

We know Iran sent the hostages home immediately and he cut tax rates from 70% to 28% and defeated socialism without firing a shot.

Posted by: rdw on November 5, 2006 at 10:15 AM | PERMALINK

R eally, R eally, D umb W hitemale,
You can't be for real. Troll. It's been fun!

Posted by: Ralphy D on November 5, 2006 at 10:54 AM | PERMALINK

From the sublime to the ridiculous. rdw is fisked several times upthread. None of his assertions seem to hold up under casual scrutiny. Now rdw posts his absurd belief that most Americans have 3- and 4-car garages. No wonder the Repubs are going to have their asses handed to them on Tuesday--they don't know anything about their own country.

Posted by: Joel on November 5, 2006 at 11:49 AM | PERMALINK

I give up, moron. Who?

Posted by: Joel on November 5, 2006 at 1:05 PM | PERMALINK

Perle:

I've worked with [Rumsfeld] three times in my life. I've been to each of his houses, in Chicago, Taos, Santa Fe, Santo Domingo, and Las Vegas.

Santo Domingo, is that in Chile or the Dominican Republic?

These people are so far removed from the men and women they are sending to Iraq, that their deaths and injuries in Iraq are completely meaningless to them and do not phase them at all; the plight, the deaths of the fighting men and women of the US Armed Forces in Iraq is of no significance to them and their class of white boi.

Posted by: Colophon on November 5, 2006 at 3:18 PM | PERMALINK

Now rdw posts his absurd belief that most Americans have 3- and 4-car garages.

Come on Joel, this isn't hard, even for an academic. I realize common sense is a rare trait in your world but try to follow here. No one said most Americans have 3-car garages. No one hinted at it or suggested it in any way. I said there probably have been more 3-car garages built in Chester County PA in the last 5 years than exist in all of France.

The point is we are so fantastically wealthy we often take it for granted. One merely needs to look toward Europe to see how much more we have. A majority of Americans don't have 3-car garages because they don't want or need 3-car garages. but they have the option. Few people in France could even think of it.

We live in an amazing country with amazing wealth and unlimited opportunities. There is no match for America, anywhere.

Posted by: rdw on November 5, 2006 at 3:44 PM | PERMALINK

"That should be "hew", not "hue". Homophones can be a bitch."

You are correct. No idea why I used the wrong one, I know the difference. I don't know why, but when I'm typing fast, I sometimes do mix up words when I know the difference. Weird.

Posted by: Mike B. on November 5, 2006 at 6:22 PM | PERMALINK

Really Delusional Whitemale,
Get out of the basement and do your homework!

Posted by: Mum on November 5, 2006 at 6:45 PM | PERMALINK

Posted at 12:57 PM on November 5, 2006 by mhr

Saddam Hussein has been condemned to hang for his crimes against the Iraqi people. Who wants to head a committee for Liberals against Death for Saddam?

mhr: Were you willing to make a sacrifice of blood (a family member's death in Iraq) to see Saddam hang?

If you were/are not willing to make that sacrifice, then no other American family should have to make a blood sacrifice for you to see Saddam hang.

Posted by: Colophon on November 5, 2006 at 7:27 PM | PERMALINK

Get out of the basement and do your homework!

Read about the little cold snap in Germany? They're wishing for a little Global Warming now. Seems it created a big power failure all over Europe with 10% of France losing it's power.

They're so pitiful.

Posted by: rdw on November 6, 2006 at 12:13 AM | PERMALINK

"Who wants to head a committee for Liberals against Death for Saddam?"


Not me.

Posted by: Ace Franze on November 6, 2006 at 9:38 AM | PERMALINK




 

 

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