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   During a recession, should college presidents face the same pay cuts as CEOs?
 Forty years of writing from Taylor Branch, James Fallows, Katherine Boo, Marjorie Williams, Joshua Micah Marshall, and more.
 With help from Washington, the for-profit college industry is loading up millions of low-income students with debt they'll never pay off.
 The best recent memoir from republican Washington is a hoax. That should tell you something.
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November 15, 2006
By: THE PROFESSIONALIZATION OF THE BLOGOSPHERE....Markos Moulitsas, at the end of a post about his advertising policy at Daily Kos, concludes with a teaser:
We'll have to wait and see what he means by this, but I think it's probably a bellwether for the future of the political blogosphere: the end of the amateur era and the rise of the professionals. For the last year or so, whenever someone asks me for a comment about the future of blogging, I suggest that the biggest underreported trend in the blogosphere is professionalization. This can develop along multiple avenues. The first is amateurs who get hired to blog for professional outlets. I'm an example of this, as is Jesse Lee and anyone else who's paid to blog for a politician or a political campaign. The second avenue is professionals who move from print to blog (or add a blog to their print portfolio). Early examples are Mickey Kaus and Andrew Sullivan, and more recent examples include Michelle Malkin, Hugh Hewitt, and the legions of newspaper reporters who now have their own blogs. The third avenue is to sell enough ads to become a self-employed pro. Josh Marshall is an example of this, and so is Markos. The next step along this avenue, perhaps, may be whatever it is that Markos has in mind. I'm not sure what to make of all this. In fact, the reason I mention it frequently is that I keep hoping someone will get inspired by the suggestion and go off to write a shrewd and perceptive piece about the phenomenon. So far, nobody has. But it's a story waiting to be told, and there's still time for someone to be the first to tell it. For good or ill, I suspect that within two or three years virtually all of the high-traffic political blogs will essentially be professional operations. Think of it as the talk radio-ization of the political blogosphere. —Kevin Drum 1:24 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (114)Comments
There was an article in Wired magazine that stated that Markos pulled in revenues of approx. $600K in 2005. One imagines that with the rising tide of the 2008 presidential elections, Markos will be bringing in over $1M in the not-to-distant future. All considered, it's not necessarily a bad thing. Better Markos than Glenn Reynolds. Posted by: Rick in KS on November 15, 2006 at 1:34 AM | PERMALINKThere's probably a limited number of slots for self-financing professional blogs(at least on the progressive side); I'd guess it's somewhere between 40 and 100, closer to 40. Beyond that will be a larger class of almost-professional blogs, not quite lucrative enough to live off of alone. With the addition of a bit of political welfare, quite a few second-tier blogs could move up to the first rank. At this point I don't see this as an alarming development. Doing it full-time should mostly be helpful, giving bloggers the chance to sharpen their writing and groom sources. If you hate the professional blogs there will always be plenty of shoestring operations around to read. Posted by: jimBOB on November 15, 2006 at 1:38 AM | PERMALINKI think Josh has beaten Markos in terms of visionary expansion of the scope and impact of a site. TPM Cafe and Muckraker are about to be joined by some 'major expansion plans' to be 'rolling out over the next couple of months'. For solid well-sourced and well-written commentary TPM has been hard to beat. Plus an excellent source of original reporting on some of the muckier muck in D.C. Posted by: MaryLou on November 15, 2006 at 1:39 AM | PERMALINKQuestion: what is the Right wing equivalent of Jesus' General, or Fafblog, or Sadly, No!? Maybe I'm biased, but 99% of the good writing, and 100% of the witty, funny writing, comes from the Left. If that means that all the money flows in that direction, good for us. Posted by: craigie on November 15, 2006 at 1:41 AM | PERMALINKI think you're probably right about this, and I too wonder what it means. Probably the first thing to look out for is corruption. Bloggers are starting to get mentioned in the mainstream news, and are getting the ear(s) of politicians. This means, unlike before, bloggers have power to influence the national dialogue. Probably news outlets will start referencing blogs like TPMMuckraker in their stories, kind of the way they use Drudge now. The talk radio comparison is probably apt. As the audiences get large, the comments sections will become more and more unmanageable (they already are a mess) and it will be more like call-in folks on Rush Limbaugh's show. The interesting thing to me is going to be whether bloggers (who, after all, often began from a very meager starting point) will take proactive measures to ensure that lots of people's voices still get heard, rather than things becoming more of a one-way conversation. It's really about whether power is going to be collectivized, as in a democracy, or whether it will be concentrated. Wikipedia is an interesting reference point here. I wonder whether we will start to see some kind of "collectivized" debate format, where arguments are written in a loosely organized way, by "committees" of random net-folks. If someone could come up with a way to set this up, you might see something interesting happen to the way debates are held in this country. I'm envisioning debates with explicit structure (so this point is a response to that point from the other side, and this point supports this other point, etc.). If you could set something up that feels natural to people, and that has structure, and that uses Wiki-style collective authoring, then you will have preserved the "democratic" style of debate that bloggers in the early, powerless days had. It's actually important that authors DO NOT have very much power, because power corrupts. But if you give everyone a really small slice of power, well then you have something democratic. Whew. Enough theorizing. Posted by: mk on November 15, 2006 at 1:45 AM | PERMALINKI'm just curious what Markos doesn't like about Scoop (the blogging / CMS software that dKos, TalkLeft and others use). It seems to be pretty robust. Is he going to reinvent the wheel? Posted by: bob on November 15, 2006 at 1:50 AM | PERMALINKI was going to say just what MaryLou did -- Josh Marshall is really the pioneer here, turning an amateur blog into a serious journalistic enterprise, particularly with Paul Kiel and the Muckraker. If that's what Kos has in mind, more power to him. On the other hand, what made the DailyKos project unique was that it was a community forum, albeit one that has increasingly become dominated by what amounts to a few professional, high-volume co-hosts. Can it be professionalized and still retain that essential grassroots feel? I have my doubts. Posted by: jonas on November 15, 2006 at 1:50 AM | PERMALINKQuestion: what is the Right wing equivalent of Jesus' General, or Fafblog, or Sadly, No!? Boring and repetitive screeds? They're out there, but harder to find in right wing land. Posted by: American Hawk on November 15, 2006 at 1:53 AM | PERMALINKThere is nothing wrong with professionalizing the Blogosphere as long as there remains an affordable access to anyone who wants a chance to be a player. The wonderful revolutionary thing about the internet, to date, is the platform it gives thinking people to fight for their ideas in the public sphere. I predict amateurs will continue to thrive on the Web as long as there is access for them. Posted by: frank logan on November 15, 2006 at 1:55 AM | PERMALINKmk - that "debate - wiki" is a fantastic idea. Wikipedia runs on free and open software. Such a site would be a great resource for the countless monkey-banging going on all over the net today, producing much smoke, but little useful heat or light. Posted by: Impeach.Remove.Convict.Punish.Justice on November 15, 2006 at 2:00 AM | PERMALINKBoring and repetitive screeds? They're out there, but harder to find in right wing land. That's what I thought - there are no witty, clever, or funny right wing sites. Thanks for confirming that. Posted by: craigie on November 15, 2006 at 2:06 AM | PERMALINKI'm not sure that I see this as any sort of sociological story. The corollary to this is that the rise of professionalism does not come with any sort of rise in clout. The traditional media reached a point where they so dominated the market that we all had to put up with their crap, but I see no analogous situation in the blogosphere. If Josh starts to tone down his stories and starts writing articles about how, you know, there is something entrepreneurial about corruption, that it shows the sort of initiative and independence that we ought to want in our politicians, well, it takes five seconds to throw him off the tab group, and a day of exploring the blogroll from, say, Matthew Yglesias, to find a replacement. The only reason I would care about this sort of change is if it threatened to change the content I read; and as I've indicated, I don't see that as happening. Posted by: Maynard Handley on November 15, 2006 at 2:08 AM | PERMALINKmk - I like Josh Marshall a lot. I don't always agree with what he says, but he almost always has good information I don't read anywhere else. When I found I was starting to spend too much time on political blogs about a year ago, I cut out a bunch of them (including atrios and kos). Now I only visit Andrew Sullivan (it's the slow-motion car-wreck that you know you shouldn't watch, but can't help yourself), Josh Marshall, and Kevin Drum. Kevin is very spotty with his articles and opinions, but honestly, I kind of like his posters. (except Charlie/Thomas1/Chuck/Jefferererey). So - the issue of a blog "ecosphere" really is that it's limited by the audience's bandwidth. It's like getting satellite TV, where there's a zillion channels, and only a few that most people are interested in, (and a few that they cram down your throat with "package deals"). Blogs, and the Internet, is true a la carte selection. Posted by: Impeach.Remove.Convict.Punish.Justice on November 15, 2006 at 2:13 AM | PERMALINKAH, you really have no business accusing anyone of being boring and repetive. Posted by: Alan de Bristol on November 15, 2006 at 2:14 AM | PERMALINKSheesh... So people who have been blogging for many years, who put together models, facilitiated communities, and chose supporting casts that made their blogs grow in popularity and impact are getting better, more professional, more aggressive, and better pay for what they do... Who woulda thunk it!!!!??? I've been a long-time commenter/diarist on a number of blogs, and a sporadic commentator diarist on a number of others... This process is simply a natural evolution that will continue to progress as more people discover that they can: Get News; Discuss Current Events; Air Their Opinions; Meet Like-Minded People; Argue With Non-Like-Minded People; and effectively organize and win political and social battles. The key to the "professionalization" is how well the few who make the big time sweep along the many, high-quality types who remain more obscure. So far, TPM, Kos, MyDD, Atrios and etc have done pretty well, as has FireDogLake...sweeping along less-trafficked blogs like Digby, Needlenose, Gilliard, Billmon, and others. The model on the Right is different, for many reasons, but primarily the fact that they simply cannot afford to have free and open comments/conversations for fear of a) revealing a significant portion of their readership to be racist, sexist, homophobic drooling idiots, or b) getting their own arguments trashed and roundly laughed out of the ether by smart progressives. (Speaking of which, has anyone seen or heard a word from Tacitus/Josh Trevino lately?? HA HA!) So, more power to professionalization... Posted by: RedDan on November 15, 2006 at 2:19 AM | PERMALINKDefinitely a story to be told, though maybe not far enough developed to warrant it just yet. Even the question of whether this is the end of the beginning or the beginning of the middle has yet to be determined. I'm no professional,... I'm just here to tell you that: Bush is a JEW. Here are 30 or so pictures of GW Bush, and cohorts, having fun with rabbis, etc,.... http://linux.coconia.net/politics/bush-jews.htm I would like to think that this was news to you all,... but it truly appears from your response, that you all already know, and have been hiding the fact for years. Posted by: No Professional on November 15, 2006 at 2:37 AM | PERMALINKI find kos unwieldy to navigate--and nowhere near as satisfying as Eschaton, with its simple linearity and invigorating comments sections. The Biggest Blogging Story Never Told is that most bloggers are simply partisan hacks. Their interests are in serving their party (or their vision of their party) and not in ferreting out the truth. And, when presented with the opportunity to do some real reporting and ask some real questions, they reveal themselves to be star-struck fanboys and fangirls. The blogger coverage of the GOP/Dem conventions are the perfect examples of that. Another example comes from areas where the two major parties are aligned against the interests of the country. Some GOP bloggers and many Dem bloggers aren't willing to call both parties to task for their actions in such cases, or put their party's interests ahead of the country's interests. Posted by: TLB on November 15, 2006 at 3:06 AM | PERMALINKThe big boys can only do so much. As long as platforms like Blogger remain free and simple to use, there will be millions of niche bloggers who just blog for the hell of it, expecting neither fame nor fortune, catering to their few dozen or so readers and getting an occasional spike when one of the bigger fish links to them. The big question, as I see it, is not whether Kos becomes an 800-pound gorilla but whether free platforms will continue to be available for those wanting to use them. I run my humble little blog mostly for fun; I never expect to make a red cent off of it. I would shut it down in an instant if I had to start paying for bandwidth, and I suspect the majority on Blogger would do the same. My big concern is with the net neutrality rules. If the big players start hogging bandwidth and squeeze the little fish out, that's when you'll lose diversity of opinion, and the internets will become no better than TV. Posted by: dr sardonicus on November 15, 2006 at 3:25 AM | PERMALINKI think the blogosphere will always have a place for the well-worded, devastating argument even if it comes from an amateur. Look at the meteoric rise of Glenn Greenwald. Posted by: AP on November 15, 2006 at 3:53 AM | PERMALINKBack when the TNR folks were complaining about the "rabid attack lambs" led by Commandante Kos, someone opined that left Blogistan was roughly divided between the Kos collective and the Atriot archiplelago, both of which actively encourage new voices and entrepreneurial enthusiasm. So long as the barriers to entry are nonexistent, I sincerely doubt that the raucous cacophony we presently enjoy will soon be distilled to a few polished voices. Radio's not the model: this is the Internet. Posted by: bad Jim on November 15, 2006 at 4:30 AM | PERMALINKProfessionalisation must ultimately lead to corporatization in any media. That is why a free, un obstructed internet is the last frontier. Anyone who thinks we win any elections in todays world without that is incredibly naive. Propaganda(brainwashing) has become an artform. Maybe the US is so vulnerable to it because we have little and anomalous history. Is America like a strong teenager with no parents and an uzi? Posted by: Michael7843853 G-O in 08! on November 15, 2006 at 4:57 AM | PERMALINKFor Kos his blog is part of his activism. He is not a great writer (though several of his guest hosts are) and his insights are good but not great. His abilitiy to highlight and enhance local activism is top notch. Marshall/TPM empire is a different thing all together. Josh was/is a journalist and he has better writing and more importantly very good reporting. I go to TPM to get the news and to Kos to get my marching orders. (PS - The world needs a great blog on Hawaii time) Posted by: Aloha on November 15, 2006 at 5:09 AM | PERMALINKI think that the nature of the internet will limit how far blogs can be proffessionalized. Anyone with a computer can start a blog. I enjoy seeing what Commonman Joe has to say just as much as Kevin or Kos. If a blog starts to have too much of a commercial feel to it I will leave it and find a more amateur one. It's the amateurs at the Daily Kos that gives it it's flavor and if it loses that people find something more tasty. Posted by: trublu on November 15, 2006 at 5:28 AM | PERMALINKWho says anyone can start a blog? Without your own server very definitely you can't, unless someone lets you and who says you can have a server? Ask the people in PRC about the free net. No, you don't have to have your own server to start a blog. You don't even have to rent server space. There are plenty of companies that will give you server space in return for placing advertisements on your blog. You want to start your own blog for free? Go here...www.blogbuilder.com Posted by: trublu on November 15, 2006 at 7:03 AM | PERMALINKKevin wrote: "Think of it as the talk radio-ization of the political blogosphere." Speaking of talk radio, where can people find out information about "Washington Monthly" on the radio? When, on what stations, in what cities? That does not seem to be publicized on the Washington Monthly web site in a very visible way. Driving down the road on Sunday morning, I've heard Kevin being interviewed. This has happened more than once. This should be better publicized!!! Posted by: no one on November 15, 2006 at 7:12 AM | PERMALINKQuestion: what is the Right wing equivalent of Jesus' General, or Fafblog, or Sadly, No!? i'm far from familiar with the whole wingnutosphere, but i would guess ScrappleFace is probably pretty high up on any such list. Posted by: cleek on November 15, 2006 at 7:25 AM | PERMALINKI find kos unwieldy to navigate--and nowhere near as satisfying as Eschaton, with its simple linearity and invigorating comments sections. invigorating ? they're an even worse mess than the comments here. but, i do like the simple Blogger front page better than Kos' maze of diaries. Posted by: cleek on November 15, 2006 at 7:30 AM | PERMALINKNewspapers, television, and even radio, are, by the virtue of their technology, very expensive to produce. I was raised in a newspaper family and believe me reporter salaries were only a minor fraction of the cost of delivering birdcage paper to your house each day. Airtime on television and radio is very limited. The real power broker in all those media is the gatekeeper (the editor or the executive producer) who decides which voices will be heard and which stories will be told. Those people decide who will expend precious, limited resources. They truly demand value. As long as the cost of creating a blog remains unbelievably low when compared to other media, the blogs will remain unbelievably free. Blogs will come and blogs will go. A few very talented people will make a living. People like Markos Moulitsas will continue to try to develop brands, and people like Huffington will try to become gatekeepers, but even now the DailyKos and the Huffington Post are showing signs that they are losing audience share to other, newer blogs. Until blogging becomes much more expensive to produce, don't look for real media concentration in the blogs. The internet is truly the printing press technology of our day. Posted by: Ron Byers on November 15, 2006 at 8:01 AM | PERMALINKThere's probably a limited number of slots for self-financing professional blogs(at least on the progressive side); I'd guess it's somewhere between 40 and 100, closer to 40. I think that's an underestimate. Especially if you consider the potential of sites like nakedprotesters.com, cagedpetagirls.com, sexyvegan.com, etc. Conservatives are going to make a living at it too. If for no other reason than the fact that those who fund conservative news outlets and conservative "think" tanks are not going to lie down on the job. Not to mention professional commenters. Posted by: rewolfrats on November 15, 2006 at 8:19 AM | PERMALINKHa Ha Ha Oh, Ho Hooo giggle Kos? Professional? You mean like this: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=15481 or this: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=10440 Oh sweet lord, you're always good for a laugh Kevin. Posted by: Al on November 15, 2006 at 8:27 AM | PERMALINKOh sweet lord, you're always good for a laugh Kevin. OMG! KOS has a sticker on his laptop ! grow a pair, Al. Posted by: cleek on November 15, 2006 at 8:30 AM | PERMALINKI'm sure Norman and Chuckles would blog for free - Off thread, but are we missing a trool? Chris Castanga was arrested in Woodland Hills, CA for sending letters containing powder to several liberals, including Keith Olbermann, Letterman and, I believe, the latest Air America. That could be a copycat. However, the interesting aspect of Castagna was that he, at 39, lives in the basement of his parent's home. He has been a contributor to FreeRepublic, under the name of Mark Kos (this could be off) and posted about sci-fis - He adores Coulter, Malkin and Laura Ingrahem - He hates liberal. A while back, there was a trool at this site, who was from the Valley (Pale Rider said that he had a Van Nuys site) and posted under several different names. The irony, if this is the guy, is that we have often accused trools of living at home with Mommy and Daddy - Well, this guy did. Posted by: thethirdPaul on November 15, 2006 at 8:32 AM | PERMALINKCan you envision yet another step. . .the migration of international news coverage to the blogosphere? With the elimination of foreign news bureaus and in-depth foreign reporting from US TV and newspaper media (it's a trend that's been going on for years), is it conceivable that blogs would pick up the slack? A blog could pick particular issues of interest and raise money on line for a reporter to go and cover that story. To date, blogs have been pretty much a reactive, editorializing type of phenomenon. They don't often generate original news--but respond to other people's. But with the evisceration of serious newspaper and TV coverage, could blog news gathering be a next logical step? Posted by: sylny on November 15, 2006 at 8:41 AM | PERMALINKI have a question for all of you. Why do you post? Seriously, why do you take the time to post to this or any other blog. Most of you seem to spend a lot of energy and time writing to total strangers. Except for candidate fundraising, I haven't seen much coordinated action develop here or anywhere else in the blogosphere. I don't know if Kevin will read this post, but I really want to know why we mere posters invest so much of ourselves in the blogging enterprise. Posted by: Ron Byers on November 15, 2006 at 9:26 AM | PERMALINKI am waiting for the next trend which is for a number of first and second teir bloggers to band together -- Posted by: smartone on November 15, 2006 at 9:33 AM | PERMALINKI have a question for all of you. Why do you post? Seriously, why do you take the time to post to this or any other blog. I think you mean, why does that Pale Rider guy do so much crazy shit? I stumbled onto this site and just read Kevin's entries. Then I started reading the comments, and I was able to figure out that there were viewpoints and personalities that were consistent. Then, I posted and started to express my own thoughts or disagreements. Then I got mad when it appeared that there was an effort by the freeper trolls to disrupt things and I thought, hmm, what if I acted like a hockey goon and shoved those idiots aside so that the thoughtful and insightful people could post and comment more freely? Then I took it to an insane and terrifying level, setting fire to the trolls just to watch them run around in circles and howl. I started to enjoy the mayhem and the horror and I took a little vacation. Exchanging ideas is a good thing. I need to be more of an "exchange ideas" kind of a poster and less of a "set the trolls hair on fire" type poster. I don't know who Norman Rogers is, but I think he would appreciate my appreciation of his ability to say the things everyone needs to know about the wingnuts in this country. Then there's the sheer need to entertain-oh, don't get me started on that. Don't go there. Whooo-doggies. Why do I post? Because I can. More often than not, I know I shouldn't, but I do. I can take it or leave it, and I know I've done baaaaad things, but if I let that get to me, I'd be letting the people who have no business posting here win and I'd never allow that to happen. If we ever get to the point where there's no need for me to do anything at all, I'd be happy as can be to sit back and read once again and not interact at all. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Posted by: Pale Rider on November 15, 2006 at 9:45 AM | PERMALINKMarkos explicitly ties himself too closely to particular candidates, and the credibility of his site suffers for that. Josh Marshall doesn't suffer from the "explicit" problem. I only go to Markos when I want to find out who's winning on election night. Posted by: raj on November 15, 2006 at 10:04 AM | PERMALINKRon Byers, People post for varied reasons - From our resident scholar, Professor Scotian, who not only posts meaningful thought, but who grades our term papers and pop quizes, to the highly intelligent posts of others, such as FranklyO, PTate in Mn, Apollo 13 and so many others who are equal in stature. And then we have the wit and wisdom of Shortstop, Stefan, Craigie for comedy relief and a much needed more humorous perspective. However, we also have the true advocates and workers such as Global Citizen and yourself. During the runup to the election, you both inspired many to get out the vote. You were tireless in not only describing the importance of your local battle ground, but influencing many in other regions to recognize the importance of this off year election. Perhaps we come to vent, to laugh, to learn, to kibbitz - At least this is a site for all, even the often obnoxious rattlings of the trools. And to all of the splendid posters I have not mentioned, perhaps it was the lack of the wondrous Stumptown Coffee of Portland, but thanks for your postings. "abandonment of scoop" I think it's probably a bellwether for the future of the political blogosphere: the end of the amateur era and the rise of the professionals. Talk about behind the curve -- as your own comments section proves, Kevin, Netvocates (not to mention the Scaife Counter Blogging Project) has been paying to inject GOP talking points into the blogosphere for some time now. Posted by: Gregory on November 15, 2006 at 10:12 AM | PERMALINKmore recent examples include Michelle Malkin, Hugh Hewitt Sheesh, Kevin, what's the matter with you? Malkin and Hewitt are professionals -- apart from professional propagandists -- as much as I am a NASCAR driver. Posted by: Gregory on November 15, 2006 at 10:15 AM | PERMALINKDidn't Kos just switch to Scoop earlier this year? Posted by: croatoan on November 15, 2006 at 10:26 AM | PERMALINKPaul I admire all the regular posters here and am attracted to their ideas and their gifts. I love reading all of you. But why do you post? Writing is much harder than reading. It takes time. It takes ego. Sometimes our ideas are rejected. Rejection is never fun. Except for Kevin (and some of his alter egos, guest hosts and the professional trolls) there is no money to be gained. Why do you post? Why do any of us? Posted by: Ron Byers on November 15, 2006 at 10:28 AM | PERMALINKI suggest that the biggest underreported trend in the blogosphere is professionalization. Probably "underreported" because its not news: as a medium becomes established, it becomes increasingly stratified and less practically open as major outlets become moneymaking outfits and become more concerned with keeping and audience to keep the money flowing in than whatever motivated them to start when few people were listening. Its all dog-bites-man. (Not that, outside of the blogosphere, anything about the blogoshere is "reported" except the occasional scandal reported in complete isolation. Sure, stories from the blogs are occasionally reported as such in other media, and bloggers occasionally called on to comment by other media, but the blogosphere itself is almost entirely unreported.) Sounds like KOS is starting down a similar (but to a millionth degree smaller) path that Google is on. 1. Become popular by being a bottom-up non-evil group of guys. Thanks for your answer Pale Rider. I don't think of you as a goon. Posted by: Ron Byers on November 15, 2006 at 11:43 AM | PERMALINKI don't know if Kevin will read this post, but I really want to know why we mere posters invest so much of ourselves in the blogging enterprise. Good question. Someone I work with likes to say that wikis aren't for reading, they are for writing. I think something similar applies here. I think people do it first, to get something off their chest in a way which is completely fenced off - there's really almost no repercussion from posting here, unless you are simultaneously sending fake anthrax to people, as Malkin's posters apparently do. Second, though, it's another way of reaching out and touching some people, but in a completely mental way. Out here, you are no more and no less than what you post. The fact that shortstop is a 6 foot ex-runway model doesn't affect how we think of what she writes, just as Charlie, hunched over in his underwear waiting for the next WalMart shift to start, is reviled not because of his bunny slippers, but because of his inanities. And, speaking for myself, I read a lot more blogs than I scribble on, and what I love about the best of them is the commenters riffing off each other. It can be the best laugh all week. Oh, and I'd also say that it is amazing how much time you have when you don't watch television. Posted by: craigie on November 15, 2006 at 11:44 AM | PERMALINKIt's true, I am obsessed with this Bob/rmck1 fellow. Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 12:04 PM | PERMALINKWell, I know that shilling for Schaife, has allowed me a life style I wouldn't have dreamed possible at Folsom and Camarillo. Food behind Wendy's is so much better than that salt peter that Ratchitt used to put in my drool at Atascadero. Oops, Incoming from Pittsburg - Hmmm - ABSCAM, Hillary, Clinton's Penis, Nancy P - Must think only of yesterday's news? Must get that "Don't stop thinking about tomorrow" out of my wretched brain. Yesterday's gone, yesterday's gone. Posted by: Jefferinyo on November 15, 2006 at 12:06 PM | PERMALINKThis one time, at Young Republican's Camp... Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 12:08 PM | PERMALINKAs if YOU guys wouldn't me thanking the person(s) who finally drove me away? Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 12:12 PM | PERMALINK"I was going to say just what MaryLou did -- Josh Marshall is really the pioneer here, turning an amateur blog into a serious journalistic enterprise, particularly with Paul Kiel and the Muckraker. " Yeah, but Josh and Kos are doing radically different things. Same with Drum, Yglesias, Ezra Klein and DeLong (the axis of liberal wonkery). I think the thing about political blogging is: *Most people aren't very good at it.* Coming up with 2-4 original ideas a day and crafting those ideas. It's too easy to revert to "look what those eejits are saying over there" as a fallback. So there are lots and lots of mediocre political blogs, and only a few stars. When you take into account the network effects between the established quality bloggers, the emergence of a star system ain't surprising. Posted by: Urinated State of America on November 15, 2006 at 12:13 PM | PERMALINKI love Kos and more power to him if he wants to use the money to build on what he has created. I go to TPM, for the good reporting, especially MuckRaker. Also go to Firedoglake, again for different reasons. But Kos is the granddaddy. And there are some great writers over there, both front pagers and frequent diary writers. Bonddad writes incredible stuff in an easy to understand fashion. Posted by: JWC on November 15, 2006 at 12:16 PM | PERMALINK1st "me" above should read "be" - darn spellchecker! Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 12:18 PM | PERMALINKMore details on those projects will emerge in December, but bottom line is that I won't cry if Chevron or anyone else wants to help fund the rise of a professional netroots activist class. It only becomes a problem if Markos becomes dependent on the money from those advertisements and thus it changes policy. It's got to be the number ONE reason why TV media today has simply let Bush get away with out-right lies. This is not a case of Chevron wants to help fund activist, and Markos isn't stupid enough not to understand that point, but he sure is playing that way because the money has now become to nice. My question is, why does Chevron want to advertise on his web? The Chevron advertisers want to do more that sell gasoline, and Daily Kos is poor place for "point of sale" advertising, nope, Chevron seeks to influence. How long will it be before Markos says that global warming is not an issue, or it's okay to go to war for our "economic security"? WHY is Chevron advertising on these netroot blogs? So Markos gives a stupid answer like "I'm not afraid of money". Yeah, Tom DeLay was not afraid of money either, in fact most of the GOP isn't afraid of money, no matter where it comes from, and gee was corruption the number one reason the House and Senate have change hands? Well, Pale Rider and CFShep rate very high in my book, Uncle Paul. Articulate, intelligent, sometimes using a rapier wit - Yeah, two of reasons, I keep coming back. And I do find it interesting that so many of the fine posters here are women. Some even have their own sites. Barbara Maha has posted and has an excellent site.Then there is the site which has recently received raves, none other that Global's Blue Girl Red State, which is an excellent forum for sharing and learning. Posted by: stupid git on November 15, 2006 at 12:26 PM | PERMALINKIs this what you're referencing, Charlie? He's not ANY of those people. He's one guy spinning a yarn. Nice try, Charlie. No one is going to "drive you off the blog" because it's just not possible. Where else in the world are you going to be able to change your handle every three weeks and talk endlessly about abortion? Besides, Charlie-you're an old man. You'll be dead soon. Abortions will continue long after you're screwed into the ground upright because of the gnarled and contorted horror of your twisted carcass. Case closed. Oh, I forgot: No thanks, Jeffery. Posted by: Pale Rider on November 15, 2006 at 12:28 PM | PERMALINKBut...but...I'm the only one with any credibility around here. Pay attention to me! Pay attention to me Goddamnit or I'll throw an aborted fetus through your window and bite your ankle! Pay attention to me! Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 12:32 PM | PERMALINKI only posted under my name on that thread as well, Pale Rider (although there were several fake "Jeffery" posts). As I said, then, I need to fine the person(s) to thank him/her. Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 12:39 PM | PERMALINKPay attention to me Goddamnit or I'll throw an aborted fetus through your window and bite your ankle! Pay attention to me! Gross! I'll bet he'd do it, too. Posted by: Pale Rider on November 15, 2006 at 12:42 PM | PERMALINKI only posted under my name on that thread as well, Pale Rider (although there were several fake "Jeffery" posts). As I said, then, I need to fine the person(s) to thank him/her. Oh, Bullshit, Charlie. You're too stupid to even correct me on what your handle says today-hello, we're calling you Charlie and you respond because you know we're talking to you. At least TRY to pretend not to be you once in a while, okay? What sane person would believe you? And do you drink the formaldehyde straight from the jar or lick it off your sleeve? Posted by: Pale Rider on November 15, 2006 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINKYeah, I use to fine people and then say, "Thanks for stopping by, Pardner". Posted by: Judge Roy Bean on November 15, 2006 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINKPale Rider: That was another fake "Jeffery". Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 12:47 PM | PERMALINKThat was another fake "Jeffery". There's something genuine about you, Charlie? Puh-leeeeze! You're the ultimate concern troll! And now I will stop feeding and watering you. Posted by: Pale Rider on November 15, 2006 at 12:50 PM | PERMALINKPale Rider, Oh, heavens no - They are so much more sophisticated these days - Why they merely chug gallons of the formaldehied laced Thunder Bird, circa 2007. It steels them when they have to catch out on the grainer for Minnie (Hennepin County) to pick up their "Dumb Check". Posted by: stupid git on November 15, 2006 at 12:54 PM | PERMALINKAnd why is "professionalization" synonymous with advertising, at least according to Kevin? The third avenue is to sell enough ads to become a self-employed pro. Josh was already a professional that started his own blog, so I guess, Josh needed funds since he wants to expand his site but advertising hardly makes his blog show professionalism, since Josh's site was fairly professional without the ads. And frankly, I never thought of Judith Miller as a professional, at least not a professinal "journalist" although she might be consider a professional hack, since she wrote word per word everthing Bush would have wanted her to write, and then stuck Bush's hearsay on the front pages of NYT and called it news. It would be nice to have advertising work on Josh's terms instead of their own terms, the way it seems that today's newspapers operate, because the adveritisers have began speaking for the papers and thus, it appears that newspapers want the reader to guess what they mean, like for instance this paragraph in todays Washington Post by Robin Wright, Bush Initiates Iraq Policy Review Separate From Baker Group's The initiative, begun after Bush met at the White House with his foreign policy team, parallels the effort by the bipartisan Iraq Study Group to salvage U.S. policy in Iraq, develop an exit strategy and protect long-term U.S. interests in the region. The two reviews are not competitive, administration officials said, although the White House wants to complete the process before mid-December, about the time the Iraq Study Group's final report is expected. Like, what is our "long-term US interest" in the region? I wonder, does Chevon know what our "long-term interest" in the region is, but don't want Washington Post to elaborate over that particular point, the point that the war in Iraq is about oil? Talk about code words, perhaps the public would like more info on these words, "long-term interest" particularly if a person is fighting in the Iraq war, or have a family member fighting in Iraq. Why has "long-term interest" or "economic security" become code words for oil? Why has the Washington Post and the New York Times decided it it is simply okay to do that? Because they are afraid that money from advertisers like Chevron might disappear? Posted by: Cheryl on November 15, 2006 at 1:07 PM | PERMALINKLike, what is our "long-term US interest" in the region? Sand! Solar power is coming, it depends on silicon, and what is silicon made of? Melted sand! Goddamn A-rabs have us coming and going! Posted by: craigie on November 15, 2006 at 1:13 PM | PERMALINKThe fact that shortstop is a 6 foot ex-runway model.... I KNEW it! Frankly, that's why I post here. I could give a shit about politics. Who won the elections, by the way? Posted by: trex on November 15, 2006 at 1:45 PM | PERMALINKEntertaining thread. thethirdpaul, we all love you and your humor and warmth. craigie, silly, I'm still a runway model...just haven't had any bookings in LA lately. I'm keeping the cheerleader outfit for you, though. Ron, to riff on what others have said, this blog in particular has the attraction of a good group of very bright posters with a wide range of talents. Like craigie, I read many blogs but post on few, and I don't watch much TV so I have the time. I also agree with craigie that the "post with impunity" aspect is attractive. It hasn't been so easy to loudly state one's anti-Bush, anti-war opinion in this country over the past few years without...hold on, I gotta get the door. I'm COMING! Hold ON! For me, there's another equally important aspect. I started posting here a couple of years ago--early fall of 2004, I think. I live in a very blue city in a solidly blue state, but Chicago Democrats aren't particularly progressive by my standards. Indeed, they often act like Repubs Lite with union support. By European or Canadian standards I'd be called a moderate, but by U.S. and even Chicago standards I'm a raging lefty. I have lots of progressive friends and acquaintances to talk to and bounce ideas off IRL, but I've still needed to know that, spread across every state of the union (even the reddest), there are like-minded people who've been appalled at what's going on and feel an urgent need to turn back the tide of horror. When it appeared that the entire rest of the country had lost its fucking mind, I started tentatively reaching out. People reached out and touched back. I had some arrested and conversed with others. Pretty soon it became part of my daily or almost-daily life. The need to make common cause with other humans who truly understand us is never sharper than when things are going very, very badly and there don't seem to be any good guys to help fight the evil (Democratic caucus, I'm looking at you). This and other blogs have been a source of hope and inspiration to me throughout the dark recent past. I hope that now we're on the upside of things, we can sustain and impassion each other in an equally powerful and significant way. Posted by: shortstop on November 15, 2006 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINKSo, that was the fake "Pale Rider" saying he's a goon? Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 2:10 PM | PERMALINKMy blog has a "no ads forever into infinity" policy, no matter how big or famous we become. However, we are willing to accept "donations"... Actually, it was 12 people doing a joint fake post as Pale Rider for the purpose of fucking with you, Charlie. You fell for it again. God, you're dumb. Posted by: shortstop on November 15, 2006 at 2:22 PM | PERMALINKI recently found a very interesting website: Oh. I'm such an idiot. Does anyone want to talk about abortion? You know, Jack Murtha has a 0% rating from NARAL. Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 2:24 PM | PERMALINKThat was a fake "Jeffery" at 2:20 PM. Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 2:47 PM | PERMALINKA dozen people were all working on a dead thread just to fuck with Charlie? That seems highly unlikely. Was Bob in on the joke? Someone may want to check his oven, because he hasn't posted in over 24 hours. Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 3:28 PM | PERMALINKUnless Bob is doing the fake "Jeffery" posts. Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 3:31 PM | PERMALINKThat was a fake "Jeffery" at 3:28 PM. Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 3:36 PM | PERMALINKThat was a fake "Jeffery" at 3:36 PM. Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 3:39 PM | PERMALINKFake "Jeffery" knock it off or I will stab you in the eye with a ballpoint pen. Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 3:41 PM | PERMALINKKeep it up, please. This is like trolls on Viagra! Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 3:47 PM | PERMALINKThat was a fake "Jeffery" at each and every turn listed above, except where I was identifying the fake "Jefferys" (including the instance where I identified a fake "Jeffery" at 3:36 PM.) All of the fake "Jeffery" posts are now clearly identified. Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 3:57 PM | PERMALINKI understand the makers of Zyklon B want to help finance LGF. Posted by: Hostile on November 15, 2006 at 4:34 PM | PERMALINKhigh-traffic political blogs will essentially be professional operations The end of censorsip free comments is near. I really do not read Kos because of its commenter registration requirement. Posted by: Hostile on November 15, 2006 at 4:36 PM | PERMALINKWith the coming end to net neutrality, blogs can only go professional and ensure wealthy corporations obtain their return on investment. Posted by: Hostile on November 15, 2006 at 4:38 PM | PERMALINKi guess "professionalism" means whoring out your supposed people powered site to let chevron help defeat prop 87 -- which markos helped to do by taking his incredibly hypocritical stance. he's a proto-republican man-boy with no principles. welcome to the land of the "pro." Posted by: christian on November 15, 2006 at 5:13 PM | PERMALINKhe's a proto-republican I have always felt that way about Kos. Posted by: Hostile on November 15, 2006 at 5:54 PM | PERMALINKThat was almost an hour. You're slipping, fake Jeffery. Completely unacceptable. I expect you to catch these within 5 minutes of my posts. Posted by: Jeffery on November 15, 2006 at 6:05 PM | PERMALINKBoy, where's that fake Jeffery when you need him/her? Looks like I'm going to have to pull up the slack now. 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