Here is my quick outrage list:

1. Torture and contravention of the Geneva Coventions to which we are a signatory.

2. Persons detained without charges and subjected to torture.

3. Abramoff and parties influence on White House Operations.

4. GOP Propaganda purchased with public revenue

5. 9-11

6. Election fraud, and violations of the Voting Rights Act

7. Katrina and willful negligence to punish citizens of color in New Orleans.

8. Oil price collusion

9. Gross negligence in the prosecution of the wars in Aghanistan and the Middle East, including and not limited to the inadequate purchase of protective gear and the misappriopriation of funds intended to better outfit the American military

10. Signing Statements and the conspiracy to defy constitutional separation of power by changing the intent of legislation to suit political dictates and circumvent judicial review

11. Environmental Protection malfeasance endangering the health and safety of the United States and its allies

12. Willfully corrupting data from accountable governmental agencies for political benefit to the detriment of investors, international trade organizations, and other entities who required objective ecomonic and scientific data.

13. Advancing the position of fundamentalist Christians to a quasi-state religion, with unaccounted access, secretly crafted legistaion and executive orders intended to promote fundamentalist issues over other religious and secular interests.

oversee Bush, Cheney and Rove frogmarched into eternal humiliation and disrepute.

oh wait, they're doing that all by themselves.

nevermind.

Sparko briefly mentions it, but how is it that misappropriations of Iraq reconstruction funds does not top everone's list? Its a big fat target, and politcally easy to take on. From what I can tell, the oversight practices employed are practically, if not criminally, negligible.

I agree with foolishmortal, but for pure recreation, I'd like to see Sparko's GOP Propaganda purchased with public revenue. Especially the various pundits testifying about what they received to be propagandists.

Foolishmortal: you are right; my list was in addition to the one proffered, and I think accounting for the mess in Iraq will be job one for the House--they are the ones who will have to figure out just how badly Americans were fleeced since they initiate all funding bills. They will have to drain the swamp. My guess is the true cost of the war has been dramatically understated--to the tune of 100s of Billions of dollars. Second, becuase of this sleight of hand, their may be 100s of billions unaccounted for. Better check with the Swiss which contractors, congressmen and lobbyists stole the most. Make no mistake, there was no real oversight.

And I apologize for my typos. I took Global Citizen's speed ranting course!

f: Democratic candidates and leaders lying to voters about not having a vengeful witch-hunt as their main occupation for the next two years.

Hey Al!

Great list! Betcha wish you'd thought of it two years ago. HA!

Not to worry. I'm sure the Republicans will win the House again in 12 years. Then they can let you know all you want about Barney's private life while you type one handed.

Enjoy the next decade! HA!

Yeah, Al, Abscam and Barney Franks, How can lying a country into war, killing a half-million people, and endorsing torture as US policy compare to those crimes against humanity. Hey, you forgot Whitewater.

By the way, since you're such an expert on male prostitution rings, how's Jim Guckert's ass these days?

Not to worry. I'm sure the Republicans will win the House again in 12 years.

It's going to be a lot less than 12 years if the Democrats drop the "moderate" facade that got them elected and go psycho over wrecking Bush.

Sadly, thorby, you have missed the mess made by Bush. It is of Biblically bad proportions.
What should you do when thousands die, billions are missing, the environment is ravaged (just what is in your water lately?), and the Constitution shredded. Congress and the courts failed to protect us while journalist looked the other way or emphasized mythology. It is so much worse than you can imagine. Thousands and thousands dead. The tresury looted. Your conversations tapped. Accountability and government are intractable. Sorry.

rnc:
Two points:
a)In this thread we are not discussing whether or not to engage in a "vengeful witch-hunt", but exactly which type of vengeful witch-hunt we are to have.

b)It is precisely a witch-hunt, vengeful or otherwise, that the voters have ordained. No reasonable person could expect a dem majority to pass effective legislation that the President might sign. The Dems have oversight, nothing more and nothing less.

Sparko, you might not be the most objective judge of the stability of the Democratic Party.

Force Cheney to reveal the names of everyone on his staff.

Amazing that such a thing is required.

foolishmortal:

What the heck. Go for it. Impeachment, conspiracy theories, putting the nutroots on center state of the political scene. Whatever floats your boat.

The Democrats tried the Michael Moore spit-droplets-of-fury approach in two other elections, and the "reasonable statesman" and "moderate Democrat" approach in the most recent one. Which one worked?

Who's the Senator from Connecticut? That wouldn't be Lamont, would it?

The smart ones in the Democratic Party are putting together lists involving minimum wages, fixing the Medicare drug program, and other popular voter-candy issues. The nuts on the Left drawing up impeachment articles might get a rude awakening when they bring them up for a vote.

republicans in jersey elected lieberman, not dems. even they realized the moral bankruptcy of the modern gop.

Where is the secret location!

Kevin, you're missing the most important item: investigate the billions of dollars looted from the US Treasury by war profiteers, and launch steps to recover that money. Name the investigating committee after Harry Truman, who did the same during World War II (that's how he became Vice President and therefore President, it was his claim to fame). If the Republicans whine, accuse them of covering up for theft from the taxpayers.

thorby,

You haven't explained to us why the "stability of the Democratic Party" is even an issue.

Your assertion that a "moderate facade got them elected" is ridiculous. The Democrats got elected because they promised investigations.

Lying? Hell with this crowd, lying could be designated a federal agency. They've engaged in so much of it, there should be a Secretary of Lying, a Deputy Undersecretary of Lying and a Presidential Medal of Freedom from Truth Award. It's an element which runs through virtually EVERYTHING this administration has done since it took office.

Here are some stupid things to investigate and prosecute:

1. Collusion between radical environmentalists and politicians to twist science in order to subvert personal property rights and the capitalist system.

2. Politicians' negligent refusal to acknowledge and address the demographic sinkhole that the Social Security system is in.

3. Outright refusal to secure the nation's borders in an attempt to circumvent immigration laws.

4. Deliberate misrepresentation of tax laws in order to foster hostility and class warfare.

5. Deliberately reducing the chances for minority candidates to be elected by insisting on racial jerrymandering.

6. Deliberately espousing social and political policies that, by weakening the fabric of the family, condemn hundreds of thousands of children to lives of poverty, crime, and ignorance.

All of them might be legitimate issues for debate, but lousy subjects for punitive hearings and witchhunts. In almost all cases, what will the result of such hearings be? Reports written by the majority, restating their position, with a dissenting minority report claiming the opposite.

Once we start believing and acting on the idea that the opposition is a criminal enterprise and treating policy differences as crimes, it will be the death knell for democracy and progress. Before long we will have actual "political" prisoners aplenty, no doubt followed sometime later by the military having to separate the two warring sides. No thanks.

rnc:
I see where you're coming from, and to some degree I even agree with you: impeachment is a non-starter politically (and perhaps (gasp) substantively).

But I think you underestimate the degree of actual Republican malfeasance. There are literal planeloads of hundred dollar bills that left the U.S. and failed to make an appearance in Iraq. It could be that they were mislaid in a legitimate and proper fashion, but simply highlighting their existence (and subsequent absence) would be politically beneficial.

re: Michael Moore, perhaos I'm guilty of apostasy, but IMO he's not doing the Dems any favors. He's not a politician: he's an entertainer. And what entertains isn't necessarily politically advantageous, and it isn't necessarily the truth. He's carved a niche for himself, and far be it from me to gainsay how he chooses to make a living, but in political terms he's made himself a caricature of American liberals, and it hurts us all.

all these concerned repubs worrying about scorched earth politics after having their asses handed to them. I'm sure there's a lesson in there ... somewhere.

Those are all good, particularly investigations into lying about friendly fire incidents. Personally I believe potential war profiteering to be the most important, followed by the Cheney/Energy task force. It stil baffles me they believe the public does not have a right to know whom developed our own Energy policy.

The lying-about-global-warming thing is an instance of a bigger war-on-science thing, esp. the subset of the latter comprising abuse of scientific information within the executive branch, pressure of govt research workers, etc.

foolishmortal wrote:

"There are literal planeloads of hundred dollar bills that left the U.S. and failed to make an appearance in Iraq."
____________________

Now who is making that silly claim? Anything flown to Iraq, including cargo requiring special handling, such as currency shipments, has to travel through the Defense Transportation System (DTS). Each aircraft within the DTS, even on classified missions, comes into contact with dozens of military people at each stop. We don't load things that haven't been inspected. You can bet that any aircraft with pallets of money is going to have the attention of several layers of commanders, command posts, aerial ports, load crews, couriers, and aircrews. None of which are inclined to misplace such a load. Load details are documented about a dozen different ways. While we can't swear about how the money was disbursed, if it was given to us, it got there.

I wanna see a signed waybill, Trashhauler. WITH a drop time.

Fred F. wrote:

Those are all good, particularly investigations into lying about friendly fire incidents. Personally I believe potential war profiteering to be the most important, followed by the Cheney/Energy task force. It stil baffles me they believe the public does not have a right to know whom developed our own Energy policy.
___________________

Re the friendly fire incidents, perhaps a good place to start would be the IG reports on such incidents. It would be a pretty short hearing.

But can someone tell me what the big deal is about the composition of the Cheney energy task force? Is there a specific law that governs the makeup of White House meetings? Do we know who the participants were at such meetings in other Administrations? Is there a predicate act that requires an investigation in the case of the Cheney meeting that, for example, wouldn't apply in the case of a secret meeting by some environmental task force?

Like a good, old-fashioned creation myth, they should go back to the beginning and impeach the survivors of the felonious five who imposed W on the country and the world in the first place: there are actually people who think that he was lawfully selected in 2000. Eliminating the creation myth would be a good first step.

trashhauler:
re:
Yes, there do exist well-established procedures for the transport of materiel, which is why I am so disturbed. I recently read an interview with a fairly senior officer in which he attributed the loss of the aforementioned pallets to the 'fog of war.' Those with any idea how the army tracks shit(and I barely count myself among them) know that that's bullshit.

Where did I read this? Well that's the tough part: I can't remember, and I don't blame you if you consider me full of shit on account of it. If I'm wrong, given my recent pessismism, long may it continue.

But,the fact of the matter is that the oversight on the "disbursement" you mention is a goddamned joke. It's an invitation to fraud no matter how you look at it. I dearly hope that it was declined, but I do not expect it. If the threat of oversight is enough to make them shape up even a little bit, it'll be worth it, even if Pelosi does make gay abortion mandatory.

Iraq contracts.

He's carved a niche for himself, and far be it from me to gainsay how he chooses to make a living, but in political terms he's made himself a caricature of American liberals, and it hurts us all.

Fucking horseshit. He tells the truth about our militaristic, violence laden war porn culture. If you think that the Bush administration is an outlier of our history, it's because you know nothing about American history. He tells the truth and I frankly don't care if what he says hurts liberals or conservatives. Our big military with its big bombs and all the simplistic solutions to world problems that come from having big bombs have been hurting the rest of the world far more than Michael Moore has been hurting liberals. Screw you for throwing him under the bus.

AnotherBruce:

I knew I was opening up a can of worms w/ my Moore comments. And if you don't care whether truth hurts Dems or Reps then all I can say is "Fuck yeah!" (can I say that?)
r
But Michael Moore does not tell the whole story.

You imply that I think the Bush admin is an outlier of history. It is, and I do, but not because of its reliance on "big bombs and all the simplistic solutions to world problems." This is a trait that is sadly common to american foreign policy over the previous 50 years or so. What Mr. Moore neglects to mention is that the Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Serbia/Kosovo conflicts were started by Democrats. I do not claim that these were all wrong, but that warmongering is not an exclusively Republican vice. American foreign policy is not a pretty picture, but Moore does our nation a dissevice by painting it all red.

Foundation wrote:

"I wanna see a signed waybill, Trashhauler. WITH a drop time."
__________

Sure thing. Just give me a mission number and we can dig it out. Or give me the TCMD number of the movement request, the Unit Line Number (ULN) of the shipment, or the approximate dates on which it was supposed to be shipped. It won't be a commercial waybill, though, or a bill of lading. We would send such a shipment on a military aircraft, rather than contract it out. US commercial aircraft are forbidden to fly into Iraq. The load details would be resident in three or four computer systems, as would the cargo manifest.

You still haven't said who's making such a silly claim or what makes them think any shipments have disappeared.

I misspoke, the Bush administration is indeed an outlier in many ways, but not so much in foreign policy. So I agree with you that American foreign policy warmongering is not exclusively a Republican vice.

But I'm defensive of Moore because he pointed out a very important fact in Farenheit 9/11. Namely, that despite the fact that the great majority of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, and that Osama Bin Laden was also a Saudi, the Bush administration went out of their way to protect the Saudi royal family and divert attention from them and their nation by invading Iraq and making Saddam the implied force behind the 9/11 attacks.
He did this because of his (and America's) economic relationship with the Saudis.

Now I'm not aware of whether Mr. Moore considers himself a liberal or not, but I do know that his documentaries tend to be critiques not just of politics, but American culture as well.

It has been a while since I've seen anything by him, but remind me where Moore paints american exceptionalism and military fetishism as an exclusively republican vice.

foolish mortal wrote:

"But,the fact of the matter is that the oversight on the "disbursement" you mention is a goddamned joke. It's an invitation to fraud no matter how you look at it. I dearly hope that it was declined, but I do not expect it. If the threat of oversight is enough to make them shape up even a little bit, it'll be worth it, even if Pelosi does make gay abortion mandatory."
___________________

I, too, have read some things about the disbursement problems - cash stuffed in desk drawers, handed out to God knows whom, etc. I can't speak to those procedures.

I do know that we don't have a Fighting Finance Corps, ready to deploy into harm's way. Most of the DOD financial people are civilians and I cannot remember the last time I saw a uniformed contract officer, though we have them. So, I don't doubt there have been numerous cockups with the bookkeeping, especially as troops rotate in and out. And Bremer's crowd doubtless had their own procedures. Good luck, and let me know how you make out on that. It might improve things for the next time we have to create a government and rebuild a country's infrastructure.

Ok, AnotherBruce, we're back on the same team again:
(Readying myself from attacks from all sides) Yes Saudis financed most of the Al-qaeda type attacks, but the government of Saudi Arabia had little to do with it. Bandar functions like the old Holy Roman Emperor: he can demand action, but,outside his domain, cannot proscribe it.

And it is true, Bush I does have cordial relations w/ the Saudis. But there is no real evidence that this translates to any kind of cooperation w/ Bush II: vis. Bush II Palestinian policy, or Iraq policy, or anything else you care to name.

I am not saying Michael Moore is wrong, necessarily, only that his argument is unsound. He is not engaging in analysis but theater. He may do various entertainers some service, but to those who would understand the world he does none.

AnotherBruce wrote:

"[D]espite the fact that the great majority of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, and that Osama Bin Laden was also a Saudi, the Bush administration went out of their way to protect the Saudi royal family and divert attention from them and their nation by invading Iraq and making Saddam the implied force behind the 9/11 attacks.
He did this because of his (and America's) economic relationship with the Saudis."
___________________

Mr. Moore couldn't know all the reasons why the President did what he did for the Saudis. He could only suppose why it was done and then mold his presentation to fit his supposition. Like the CBS "fake but authentic" Bush Air National Guard documents, Moore's arguments sound reasonable and persuasive to those who want to believe it and...let us say, less than completely persuasive to those who aren't so predisposed.

But can someone tell me what the big deal is about the composition of the Cheney energy task force? Is there a specific law that governs the makeup of White House meetings?
Posted by: Trashhauler

There is, in fact, a law which requires the disclosure of non-federal advisors. The 1972 Federal Advisory Committee Act provides rules/regs for public disclosure and mandates that committees operate "in the sunshine," such that deliberations and reports are open and available to the public.

Of course, when you have war profiteers like Cheney, and criminals like Ken Lay involved, it is in all americans' interests to have full disclosure of the deliberations.

Ack, I was a bit over harsh on moore, and underharsh on Trash. Not that I have anything against trash personally, it's just that it seems weird that my poorly crafted rhetoric should have changed a man's stance from "if it was given to us, it got there" to "I do know that we don't have a Fighting Finance Corps." Well, I hope you all will forgive me, and attribute most of my belligerence to alcohol. God Bless

Good night, foolishmortal. By the way, I didn't change my stance on anything, I simply said I can't speak to the disbursement procedures. If we actually have a Fighting Finance Corps, I've never run into them.

I will fearlessly assert that frequent sex increases oxytocin production, no matter what the idiot that Bush appointed to head family planning services in the Department of Health and Human Services claims.

It's utterly wrongheaded to have someone in that position religiously opposed to contraception.

For that matter, how good an idea is sexual abstinence for unmarried young adults?

Nads wrote:

There is, in fact, a law which requires the disclosure of non-federal advisors. The 1972 Federal Advisory Committee Act provides rules/regs for public disclosure and mandates that committees operate "in the sunshine," such that deliberations and reports are open and available to the public.

Of course, when you have war profiteers like Cheney, and criminals like Ken Lay involved, it is in all americans' interests to have full disclosure of the deliberations.
__________________

Yes, I just read the statute. I suppose the Administration's defense is that a one-off meeting does not constitute the establishment of a committee?

Dems need to conduct oversight with bipartisan support so it doesn't look like a partisan witch hunt like the kinds the GOP has done inthe last 12 years. Here's my list:

1. Cheney's initial energy policy committee meetings. Was the invasion of Iraq discussed and planned at these meetings?

2. Investigate whether the administration illegally suppressed scientific information about global warming -- after promising in 2001 that any policy on global warming would be scientifically based.

3. We need a *FULL* accounting of money spent on Iraq reconstruction.

4. We need a court case to test the constitutionality of the administration's policy on prisoner detention and mistreatment.

5. We need a court case to test the constitutionality of presidential signing statements, which Bush believes relieve him from enforcing laws passed by Congress that he doesn't like.

6. We need a professionally designed and administered national survey of the effectiveness of the No Child Left Behind Act.

7. Investigate whether any more sitting administration officials contributed articles to news outlets and categorized them as real news.

8. Investigate what the hell went on in those 485 Abramoff meetings/contacts with Administration officials and the White House.

9. Investigate why a post-Katrina, 1/2 billion contract for emergency trailers was awarded to a subsidiary of Fairmont homes with no public notice or competition when federal law expressly prohibits trailers being located in flood plains. Include a chapter on where those trailers are now.

Sparko's list at the top of the thread is very good. The question is, in what order shall we roll down the list?

Here's my ordering, with notes:

1. Where'd the Katrina reconstruction money go, and what good did it do?

Somehow, the Bushies managed to get through the Katrina 'anniversary' without any serious coverage of how much of New Orleans remains empty - and I'm not just talking about the Lower Ninth. A population survey this fall conducted under the auspices of the Census Bureau and the CDC showed that Orleans Parish is at

The truth about the Katrina non-recovery is an issue that can be counted on to unite practically everyone against the Bush Administration, get the meme rolling that they are a bunch of hopeless fuckups, and demonstrate the need for close oversight in more controversial areas.

2. How's the war in Afghanistan really going?

The answer is, not very well at all. The point of this is to get the message across, before we move Iraq to the top of the list, that there's another war that desperately needs our attention and resources. (And it keeps the fuckup meme rolling, since this war was supposedly won in December 2001.)

3. How badly overstretched are our military resources?

Let's get the full list of tricks the Administration has pulled, just to sustain existing troop strength in Iraq, on the table - from stop-loss and short rest between rotations in country, through use of sailors and airmen as ground troops and the calling up of 50 year old former soldiers still in the Individual Ready Reserve, to recruiting skinheads and gangbangers. (BTW, that's a very short version of the list; there's a whole bunch more stuff than that.)

This gets the pony of "more troops to Iraq" completely off the table in advance of the Iraq discussion. And also lets America know just how badly Bush has shredded the military.

4. NOW let's do Iraq hearings, to get an accurate read on the current situation in Iraq, with particular attention to how the situation has regressed between May 2003 and the present.

This puts it all together: we couldn't defeat the much more modest insurgency of 2003 and 2004 when the country as a whole was much more peaceful. The Bush Administration has fucked this one up from start to finish, and hid the truth from the American people about just how steadily things were going south on us. If we couldn't win in 2003, we haven't a prayer to do so now without way more troops - and there are no more troops. No pony, just horseshit.

Meanwhile, we might be able to save Afghanistan, so why don't we try that?

Now we can get on to other things:

5. Torture and secret prisons.

Time for a full accounting. All prisons operated at our behest, outside of Iraq, Afghanistan, and the U.S. mainland, should be shut down. This includes Gitmo: build a supermax prison somewhere on the mainland, and move all the Gitmo detainees there.

6. Voter suppression by intimidation, bamboozlement, inappropriate disenfranchisement, and extreme inconvenience (e.g. hours-long lines to vote).

Time to make sure that private entities that try to suppress the vote can get charged with crimes, and that states and counties that do so can lose serious Federal funds.

But by late spring, we ought to get to:

7. Global Warming

The whole enchilada: how bad it's getting, what the evidence is, how the Bushies have suppressed the evidence, and what we might do about it.

Global warming is our biggest long-term problem; compared to this, Iraq is Bush's 'comma', and the problems in funding Medicare pale by comparison. The Dems need to get serious about this NOW, so that if we win the Presidency in 2008, we don't have to hold hearings and draft legislation in 2009; we'll have done all that, and can just pass it and get it signed.

After that, there's plenty of ground to cover; it's still a target-rich environment. Just keep on rolling in almost any order you want.

sparko and pj in jesusland have good lists, but we need to focus on those misdeeds whose threads lead to the White House. Two are particularly ripe: (1) Use of contractors and privatization of the military. Especially no-bid contracts let to Halliburton, Titan, CACI and others. They are costly and incestuous and helped create the chaos we now see in Iraq. Watch Robert Greenwald's video, Iraq for Sale and you will see what I mean. (2) Who forged the Niger documents that Bush used as a pretext for saying Iraq had WMDs? Find that out and the thread leads right into Cheney's office, I'll wager.

Throw in (3) A full investigation into who ordered the outing of Valerie Plame, and the Articles of Impeachment will virtually write themselves!

rnc.....why can't the democrats to both?

just because republicans were incompetent...

doesn't mean dems couldn't pass legislation AND investigate..

i hear....governing is...

hard work...

My top priority would be to determine whether there is any evidence that Iraq was invaded in order to award its oil fields to our national oil companies. That would be impeachable.

Excellent points covered by many above.

However, must award the prize to thorby for his exceptional Publican reasoning of always telling the rape victim to simply get over it and move on with their lives.

And besides, you Dems, probably secretly enjoyed how efficiently and effectively we Pubs accomplished our dirty deeds.

And now I must shower.

Ah, Kevin.

So, you think Bush should be investigated.

How partisan.

Like Clinton never did anything wrong?

How about we investigate "I never had sex with that young woman."

Certainly that's more valid than your Michele Moore conspiracy theories.

Tillman and Lynch seem an odd choice to me, there are certainly plenty of other Administration lies that would take precedence for me (starting with the Plame story, NSA spying, and misuse of intelligence to talk us into the Iraq war).

1. Iraq "reconstruction" and war privatization contracts. Get the wasted money back.

2. Cheney's energy task force. (And his staff, while we're at it.)

3. NSA and other surveillance programs.

4. Torture policy (including renditions and lawless detention).

5. Katrina recovery and FEMA readiness... except at this point we'd already be at about spring 2008. But the focus would be laying the groundwork for putting FEMA back on its own and next-administration hearings on dismantling the useless pork machine that is the Dept of "Homeland Security."

BTW, I agree with foolishmortal that elections are meant to give power to a new crowd to use as they see fit. So let the Dems investigate, show the people how corrupt the Republican Congress really was.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH: lying to the public about Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman?

Oh, please, Kevin.

This type of military cover-up has happened in other administration and may have nothing to do with the Bush and Cheney personally; but those two, George Bush and Dick Cheney conspired to cook intelligence that was the lead up to war in Iraq.

What about the testimony of Richard Clarke who told the 9/11 commission that Bush asked him to OUTRIGHT LIE AND SAY THAT 9/11 WAS DONE BY IRAQ, we would not have even gone after Bin Laden.

John Dean, the old counsel to the Nixon administration has this to say about cooking intelligence in his column Missing Weapons Of Mass Destruction:
Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense?

....But the war in Iraq is all Bush's doing, and it is appropriate that he be held accountable.

To put it bluntly, if Bush has taken Congress and the nation into war based on bogus information, he is cooked. Manipulation or deliberate misuse of national security intelligence data, if proven, could be "a high crime" under the Constitution's impeachment clause. It would also be a violation of federal criminal law, including the broad federal anti-conspiracy statute, which renders it a felony "to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose."

It matters that Bush lied about WMD, in fact here's the sited evidence from the column.

"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons."

"We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States."

"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" - his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."

Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
October 7, 2002

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."

State of the Union Address
January 28, 2003

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

Address to the Nation
March 17, 2003

Why should Bush's biggetest lie get buried underneath Tillman and Lynch? Maybe because it would implicate Bill Clinton too, as well it should.

After nearly 3000 dead military members, a major fasico going on in Iraq, a war that had NO serious post war planning, why isn't this the BIGGEST ISSUE ON THE INVESTIGATION TABLE?

Everybody knows that Bush lied about the evidence in his lead up to war and lied to congress about this too, so why doesn't it matter to Americans that Bush lied about this war?

It's how you know this war was about oil, or do we call our "interest in the region" like the Washington Post calls it, or is ti our "economic security" because two US Presidents conspired to lie about how Saddam was a threat to the US. But Saddam clearly was NEVER a threat to the US.

Suskind's a reporter, so investigations of lying seem like a big deal to him. But the voters know this regime is lying; they want answers to the big mysteries:

Why are we in Iraq? What's really gone on in Afghanistan and Pakistan?
Where did the money go?

Follow the money.

Violating the law in the running of regulatory commissions--FDA, FTC, EPA etx.

Well, I was going to say the FDA but they recently reversed course and have decided to respect a woman's right to control her own body. Thank God women now have the choice to use silicone. Saline implants are down right demeaning.

It would be great to see the dems hit the ground running on day 1 by initiating the two major investigations the republicans quashed: the pre-war intel investigation quashed by Pat Roberts and the torture/military malfeasance investigation quashed by Warner. (after Warner tells us that it is their solemn responsibility to make sure this never, never happens again).

Tillman and Lynch don't seem to merit separate investigations. They should be part of the larger investigation of malfeasance in the administration of the DoD. Instead of launching a number of separate investigations it would seem that many could be brought together under one larger investigation like malfeasance by the WH and the DoD in the conduct of the war (comprising torture, contracting fraud,, the lies around Lynch and Tillman, DoD spying etc).

The Suskind article also mentions how the really craven Dem 'show horses' are trying to side step investigations. Once again they are really missing what people want from their leadership. The excuse that they are using to abdicate their leadership and oversight responsibilities and that the are formulating some 'action plan' and need to look to the future. Exactly how they think they can formulate any future plans without determining where the corruption occurred and rooting it out from future planning is unclear.

Investigate why individuals like Jeff Sessions, Mitch McConnell, Orrin Hatch, Ted Stevens, Elizabeth Dole, John Kyl, and others are ever allowed to present themselves as candidates to the US Senate.

Ever since I took a look at the oil production numbers and revenues for Iraq in 2005, I have wondered where all the revenues have gone. The published figures for oil production and revenues were 2.4 mbpd and 20 billion dollars respectively. Since the average price of oil in 2005 was greater than 50 dollars a barrel, the shortfall to the Iraqis was greater than 20 billion dollars. I am awaiting the numbers for this year to see if there is a similar shortfall. Since the average price for 2006 was somewhere around 70 dollars a barrel, the revenues should be somewhere around 55 billion dolars. If the reported revenues are anywhere near those given for 2005 there must be a massive diversion of Iraqi oil production.

Though we should always learn from the past, we must abandon all hope of having a better past.

'Ah, Kevin. So, you think Bush should be investigated. How partisan. Like Clinton never did anything wrong? How about we investigate "I never had sex with that young woman." Certainly that's more valid than your Michele Moore conspiracy theories.'
--egbert

What the fuck are you talking about?!? Are you drunk or high?? The GOP spent over $100 million investigating Bill Clinton's sex life! So what if Clinton lied about having sex with a consenting adult? So fucking what? Who was harmed and what it cost the American taxpayer? Bush's lies have cost tens of thousands of lives and billions of our tax dollars and not a goddamn thing has been done to investigate them!

Someone needs to hit you over the head repeatedly with a shovel to get your brain working....

Deliberate misrepresentation of tax laws in order to foster hostility and class warfare.

Hil-arious.

Egbert wrote:
How about we investigate "I never had sex with that young woman."

Been there, done that. However, America does seem to have an appetite for such lurid, sensationalistic stories, so in that vein, the Dems should investigate Gannon/Guckert's sleepovers in the White House. Who was he bunking with? Since you're still fascinated by the Monica story after all these years, I'm sure you'll get behind the Male Prostitute in the White House investigation, right?

Write your Congress Critter today!

Little disappointed that Trashhauler is a garden variety troll. When confronted with monumental maladministration with Bush, you can either accept the truth or blame leftist tree-hugging strawmen. The dead-enders wave their fist and promise they'll find equitable demons on the other side. This isn't about right or left but right and wrong. Those people who vicariously live through the eyes of the administration are pained by what they see when the fantasy stream ends--and it does end eventually. Even Rush Limbaugh apologized for carrying water for these guys.

No one blames AMC for the lost of pallet-loads of cash, the chaos on the other side is where your tax dollars went away confused, several billion has not been accounted for according to the GAO.

Looking at the headlines, even Kissinger is trying to preserve what is left of his reputation--way too late. "Iraq is lost" he says after two elections.
Bush is now the most unpopular sitting president we have ever had worldwide. He can barely rent a crowd overseas. Ultimately, that is why he should be removed with Cheney from office. It is too dangerous having a President that is not respected and is generally considered incompetent and ineffectual by friends and enemies alike. You trolls can believe what you want, but this guy is poison to American interests right now--and its not because we failed to support him or his war on terror. It is BECAUSE we supported him. A failed President is someone pushed far beyond his capacity to lead and manage.

That’s a very unsatisfactory list. It leaves out what would be my number one priority, the faking of a nuclear threat.

We are in Iraq because the President of the United States managed to successfully convince many of our citizens that Iraq was a nuclear threat. He offered two primary pieces of evidence in support of his argument which, for all the world, appear to have been deliberate lies: uranium from Africa; and the purchase of aluminum tubes for the purpose of enriching uranium for nuclear bombs.

Uranium from Africa: It turned out to be not only a lie, but a pitiful tale of deception about an extremely important matter that was used to take us to war. Investigate so that to many citizens who still do not comprehend the enormity of this lie will have another chance to pay attention.

Aluminum tubes for the purpose of enriching uranium for nuclear bombs: Should be investigated and documented in detail for all of the same reasons.

If you are willing to lie about your reasons for going to war, you will lie about anything.

Crazed right-wing zealots claim that liberals see conservatives as the enemy, rather than al Qaeda and other Islamic terrorists.

This thread supports the CRWZs.

So many posts about attacking Republicans, Big Bad Business, etc. But, no posts about attacking al Qaeda and other Islamic terrorists, or even about defending the country against terrorist attacks.

Contratulations, Ron, Suskind, Kevin Drum, and posters. You have made Rush Limbaugh look good.

since the rabid right wing has done more damage to this country in recent memeory than has al qaeda, then that is an entirely reasonable position.

Suskind's list is a joke. Energy industry? Give me a break! Anyone who thinks anything will come of this needs to lay off the crack.

Lying about global warming and medicare? I'm not ever sure where that one is going.

Lying about Lynch and Tillman? Who gives a shit about this, unless its connected to a meaningful inquiry into the war-crimes perpetrated by the Bush regime in its invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Nonterrorists suject to warrantless wiretaps? Who cares, again, if such an investigation does not delve into the unconstitutionality of the Patriot Act itself, and the suspension of habeas corpus in general.

Continued incompetence in the intelligence community? Like that will lead to an overhaul of the CIA and FBI, with their expansive powers and the lack of oversight.

In short, it's a list that should play well amoung Democratic insiders who want to stirr up a little shit without having to actually rock the political boat.

Call me when Pelosi puts impeachment back on the table, or when the troops are ready to come home, or when Rumsfeld is shipped over to the Hague to answer for his war crimes.

Until then, colour me unimpressed.

But ex-liberal (though we know this is a concern troll handle designed to give credence to the barely imaginable), we are less safe from every threat now. Demonstrably so. And it is the fault of this administration and its enablers. He was there on 9-11, and remains, and much to the despair of thinking people. We hoped the rehearsed speech a few days after 9-11 was evocative of new-found competence rather than feigned bravada, voiced over Karen Hughes' teleprompts. We were wrong. Now please get thee back to powerline. There is no "them versus us" anymore. You lost the election and the American people with that false premise. It is now a time for Americans to determine just who we are and start rebuilding competence and credibility by defining the criminal.

Prioritize! [ God, how I hate that word. ]

---------

Priorities are already established. Look to your oath of office.

Start at the top: protect the Constitution from being destroyed! Geneva Conventions, Habeas Corpus, Patriot Act, etc.

Enforce the Law (punish violations): don't let 'em ignore laws just because Bush started a war and claims to be unaccountable to anyone!

Protect Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness: end the war in Iraq, correct the 'imminent domain' issue the USSC messed up, end Euro-gulag, rendering and torture, etc.

Just those few things ought to take a while since the Bush people have done so much to screw them up.

Second-tier stuff goes off in many directions, but mostly has to do with money. No-bid contracts, missing money, Abramoff corruption, illegal campaign contributions, gov.-paid-for propaganda, you name it.

After cleaning up government a bit, then we can get back to more normal governance. That would include fixing changes to regulations and laws made during the Bush era (for example Clear Skies).

The list of things is huge, but a triage always starts with life-threatening issues first.

Why not investigations into the conduct of the Iraq War and the Reconstruction?

"You trolls can believe what you want, but this guy is poison to American interests right now--and its not because we failed to support him or his war on terror. It is BECAUSE we supported him. A failed President is someone pushed far beyond his capacity to lead and manage."

Posted by: Sparko on November 19, 2006 at 12:02 PM

Well worth repeating and being seriously considered by Americans. The reason America and Americans are looked upon with increasing distrust and distaste was the endorsement of a policy of torture, lying about reasons for war, secret prisons, and the suspension of Geneva in the 2004 Presidential elections. 2000 was seen as a fluke and not an endorsement of Bush43, the same cannot be said for the 2004 elections. This is why there has been a slip in the positive views of Americans, which usually stays about the same even when the American government is suffering significant negatives because of policies they have taken. This is something Americans really need to come to terms with.

"That’s a very unsatisfactory list. It leaves out what would be my number one priority, the faking of a nuclear threat.

We are in Iraq because the President of the United States managed to successfully convince many of our citizens that Iraq was a nuclear threat. He offered two primary pieces of evidence in support of his argument which, for all the world, appear to have been deliberate lies: uranium from Africa; and the purchase of aluminum tubes for the purpose of enriching uranium for nuclear bombs.

Uranium from Africa: It turned out to be not only a lie, but a pitiful tale of deception about an extremely important matter that was used to take us to war. Investigate so that to many citizens who still do not comprehend the enormity of this lie will have another chance to pay attention.

Aluminum tubes for the purpose of enriching uranium for nuclear bombs: Should be investigated and documented in detail for all of the same reasons.

If you are willing to lie about your reasons for going to war, you will lie about anything."

Posted by: little ole jim from red country on November 19, 2006 at 12:04 PM

Of everything that needs investigating I agree with jim the lying about the nuclear threat from Iraq tops the list. There was never any substantive basis to make this argument, facts were made up (see my prior refrains about the Sept 2002 Camp David presser with Bush/Blair where both lied about a IAEA report claiming Saddam was within 6 months of a nuclear weapon, despite the reality that no such IAEA report *EVER* existed as one example of these LIES) and twisted massively to make the threadbare case the Bush Administration and GOP were able to sell to Americans thanks to their still fresh fear from the 9/11/01 attacks of a year earlier. Any Administration that is willing to lie about nuclear threats will lie about anything; this is the view of many to most in the general western world btw, especially after living in the shadow of global thermonuclear war for over 4 decades in the Cold War.

The spending misappropriations in the Iraq war and Katrina should also be top items in my view, but the two top ones need to be the lies that lead to the Iraq war being successfully sold to the American people (which was the nuclear argument/lying btw) and the massive spending issues surrounding Iraq and Katrina/NO. Those areas alone will provide more than enough to potentially set up public demand for impeachment of this Presidency, and that is something needed to restore American credibility internationally WITH HER ALLIES! The worst damage Iraq did to America was not within her enemies but within the populations of her allies, and that will haunt American foreign policy for years to decades to come. The sooner the Bush foreign policy approach is repudiated the better for starting to repair that damage. America lost many of her supporters in the allies, and once burned like this it will be a long time before anyone is willing to trust America again where another significant risk of burns could occur. This is what makes in part the continued presence of Bush in the Presidency so poisonous to American interests as Sparko noted above.

Sparko wrote: we are less safe from every threat now. Demonstrably so.

Demonstrably less safe, Sparko? Then,would please provide that demonstration?

And it is the fault of this administration and its enablers. He was there on 9-11, and remains, and much to the despair of thinking people. We hoped the rehearsed speech a few days after 9-11 was evocative of new-found competence rather than feigned bravada, voiced over Karen Hughes' teleprompts. We were wrong.

There is a conceit that the whole world's problems are caused by the US. 'Taint so. The US was less safe when President Clinton left office than when he entered office. Why? Not because of Clinton's actions, but because al Qaeda and other Islamic terrorists ramped up their efforts.

It is now a time for Americans to determine just who we are and start rebuilding competence and credibility by defining the criminal.

I take this comment to mean that Sparko sees George Bush as the "criminal", meaning "primary enemy", rather than Osama bin Laden, the Mullahs of Iran, Kim Jong-il, etc.

It's a good "beginning"...but the MSM will need to just be focused on finding any little example of dissention within the Democratic party (unlike the "competition" for leadership in the REPUGS)and continuing to say that DEMS are in dissary and without any ideas...DUH!!! I'll be surprised if the Democrats can accomplish a thing in the next two years except to block Bush's continuing grabs for POWER and agenda against GAYS/ABORTION RIGHTS/EVOLUTION!!!

Speaking of combating islamic terrorists, will the new Democratic congress put pressure on Bush to settle the wretched Israeli occupation of Palestine and our blind devotion to Israel, which is arguably the greatest source of discontent amoung Arabs toward the U.S.?

If the brutal offensive in Gaza over the past week or so (timed to coincide with the aftermath of U.S. elections) is any indication, then my guess would be a resounding "fuck no."

Call me a cynic, but unless I begin to hear serious talk about rethinking the war in Iraq AND Afghanistan, and a genuinely evenhanded approach to the question of Palestine -- not to mention a reaxamination of our support of oppressive dictatorships throughout the Middle East -- the I don't expect the terrorist threat to subside anytime soon.

That is, of course, unless you really think that they hate us for our Freedom.

RE Suskind's column... when will Senators from both parties ever recognize you DON'T get elected President from the Senate?

Little disappointed that Trashhauler is a garden variety troll.

Well, I’m not ready to apply any derogatory labels to Trashhauler, but I confess he is beginning to bore me to the point of skipping his comments, as I do skip the posts of those I consider trolls.

My problem with Trashhauler is the same problem I came to have with tbrosz. He seldom attempts to seriously address the gist of Kevin’s posts. Rather, he picks around the edge looking for some way to insinuate that whatever Kevin has written is not proven beyond all doubt (boring), or, worse, Trashhauler responds to the more foolish things said on the tread, indulging in the sport of knocking down strawmen.

Seems he has no problem with the actions of the Bush Administration, certainly nothing worth investigating. But he does have a list things that would be foolish to investigate, a list which for some reason reminds me of right-wing radio. Boring.

Trashhauler: you speak of “political prisoners”. Let’s be specific. Was John Poindexter a political prisoner? Was Iran-Contra worth investigating? Were the 28 felony convictions, many by juries of American citizens, all just a matter of unseemly politics? And finally, since you seem to be somewhat optimistic about your powers of military-related research and investigation, exactly where are those thousands or TOW missiles that were shipped over to, shall we say, seemingly terroristy folk? What became of them? If you have no idea, is it even partly because it never occurred to you to be interested? Would you be a little pissed if somebody fired one of them at you?

I’m not kidding. I wonder what you answers would be.

They all have to bear responsiblity for the war. So I would pick things that affect peoples daily lives.
1) Hurricane Katrina and reconstruction
2) Medicare and prescription drugs
2) Voter security

Iraq Fiasco.

Who allowed OBL to escape?

Relationship between the White House and the Media.

The apple polishers in the media.

Katrina.

What I'd most like to see investigated is the White House's manipulation of intelligence in the lead-up to the war, but this is body of information least likely to be accessible to Congressional committees, on separation-of-powers grounds. So it's going to have to be about the money, the spending, the waste, the lack of oversight and accounting, the no-bid contracts for Halliburton and Bechtel, what happened to the reconstruction money for the Gulf Coast, etc.

I also think the distortion and suppression of scientific and health-related information -- and the attendant intimidation of individual researchers and officials -- should be high on the agenda.

People like Al are beyond hope. After all that's happened, he still wants to investigate Clinton. His partisanship is pathological.

I agree with Kleiman.

Oh -- and one other interesting possibility: the relationship between the White House and Fox "News". I could see a credible argument being made that the entire budget of that cancerous operation was essentially an enormous undeclared 24/7/365 political ad campaign favoring the Bush Republicans -- and therefore the largest illegal campaign contribution ever.

ex-liberal

It's true that OBL et al. are declared enemies of the US, but it's possible to agree with that (as we all do) and at the same time see that Bush/Cheney and their policies have done more harm to America's security and moral standing in the world than OBL could ever have dreamed of achieving. To demand that Bush/Cheney be held accountable in no way implies that we are not at the same time committed to dealing with our declared enemies. It's possible to do both, don't you think?

As Bill Clinton used to say.... "These investigations will not feed a starving child..."

I would put election reform fairly early, just to make sure it gets dealt with before the next election.

Pat wrote:

Deliberate misrepresentation of tax laws in order to foster hostility and class warfare.

Hil-arious.
________________

Exactly.

Oil......Iraq......where is ALL our money going? Let's have a look at the receipts...all of them!

Getting out of Iraq:
here

Investigating war profiteering MUST be the number priority. This is the subject that will most resonate with the tax payer and is most likely to lead to a ground swell of support for impeachment.

little ole jim from red country wrote:

"Trashhauler: you speak of “political prisoners”. Let’s be specific. Was John Poindexter a political prisoner? Was Iran-Contra worth investigating? Were the 28 felony convictions, many by juries of American citizens, all just a matter of unseemly politics? And finally, since you seem to be somewhat optimistic about your powers of military-related research and investigation, exactly where are those thousands or TOW missiles that were shipped over to, shall we say, seemingly terroristy folk? What became of them? If you have no idea, is it even partly because it never occurred to you to be interested? Would you be a little pissed if somebody fired one of them at you?"
_____________________

Was John Poindexter a political prisoner? Not so far as I know, though his convictions were all reversed. As far as Iran-Contra went, the Boland Amendment might have been the epitome of criminalizing a policy difference. Nevertheless, it was the law at the time and should not have been broken or evaded.

As far as those TOWs go, most or all were used against the Iraqi tanks, as intended. Those that weren't certainly exceeded their useful life long ago.

And a word about my posting style, if I may. I do not often challenge the main topic of a thread for three reasons. One, I am here on sufferance, as a guest, just like everyone else. It is rude, not to mention stupid, to deny or contradict every matter of opinion, merely to substitute my own equally personal opinion. Second, sometimes I agree with the general topic of the thread, if not its tone, and only have small nits to pick. Third, Article 88 pertains.

How about lying about science and health issues such as global warming, sex education, and the morning after pill?

Homer www.altara.blogspot.com

DNS: it's possible to agree [that OBL et al. are declared enemies(as we all do)] and at the same time see that Bush/Cheney and their policies have done more harm to America's security and moral standing in the world than OBL could ever have dreamed of achieving.

As they say in New York City, with moral standing and a token, you can ride on the subway. When the US wanted to overthrow Saddam on UN auspices, the French and Russians vetoed it. Leaders of those two countries were secretly profiting from the UN's corrupt oil-for-food program. Bribery outweighed the US's moral standing.

BTW the Iraq war was not immoral, so much as unsuccessful. There's no doubt that Saddam was a monster to his people and a danger to other countries. Bush's efforts to create democracy, had they worked, would have made JFK or Woodrow Wilson proud.

How about immoral AND unsuccessful? Those things are often closely connected.
For a crucial example, look up "War, Vietnam".

1. Corruption and patronage in the CPA.
2. Corruption and crony capitalism in contracting in Iraq, especially for support of the troops but also for reconstruction.
3. Corruption and earmarking in the award of defense contracts.
4. Corruption and earmarking in the award of intelligence contracts.
5. Corruption and patronage in DHS and its White House predecessor office under Tom Ridge.

I concur. don't expect #3, though. It cuts directly to Murtha.

"...Bush/Cheney and their policies have done more harm to America's security and moral standing in the world than OBL could ever have dreamed of achieving."

DNS, I'd go further to say that at least some of this blowback is exactly what OBL's crowd hoped for, although they couldn't have predicted Americans would be quite this braindead.

I wish the Dems would have played up the Madrid memo, which stated that Al Qaeda leaders were praying for Bush to be reelected, because they "couldn't hope for an opponent more stupid or predictable".

Smells like treason to me.

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ex-liberal --

Thanks for responding to my post, except that... um... you didn't respond to it. Oh well.

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