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   During a recession, should college presidents face the same pay cuts as CEOs?
 Forty years of writing from Taylor Branch, James Fallows, Katherine Boo, Marjorie Williams, Joshua Micah Marshall, and more.
 With help from Washington, the for-profit college industry is loading up millions of low-income students with debt they'll never pay off.
 The best recent memoir from republican Washington is a hoax. That should tell you something.
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November 21, 2006
By: SLANTED INTELLIGENCE....Is Robert Gates going to usher in a new era of truth-telling and independent analysis at the Pentagon? Jennifer Glaudemans, who worked as a CIA analyst during the Iran-Contra fiasco, says that Gates sure didn't fit this bill back when he was the agency's deputy director for intelligence:
Read the whole thing for more. Glaudemans suggests that Gates had a consistent history of slanting intelligence to fit both his own views and that of his political masters. She suggests some pointed questioning from the Senate would be in order during his confirmation hearing. —Kevin Drum 12:00 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (79)Comments
Pointed questiong is all very well and good, but really, doesn't this sort of thing flow down from the top? Presidents get to appoint their DCI, so they will be politically responsive. What's needed is an executive that will alter his beliefs to fit the facts, not vice-versa. That will take at least 2 more years to get, maybe more. Posted by: Doctor Jay on November 21, 2006 at 12:08 PM | PERMALINKWait, someone in the Bush circle of wolves is dishonest? Knock me down with a feather... Posted by: craigie on November 21, 2006 at 12:14 PM | PERMALINKGood thing too there wasn't a lot of "truth-telling" during WWII, or we'd all be speaking German right now. Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 12:16 PM | PERMALINKPeople once thought that slaves didn't deserve to have wartime intelligence slanted to protect them, either. Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 12:19 PM | PERMALINKGood thing too there wasn't a lot of "truth-telling" during the Revolutionary War, or we'd all be speaking English right now. Posted by: Irritating Gnat on November 21, 2006 at 12:20 PM | PERMALINKNoted historian and Pulitzer Prize winner David McCullough has said America would have lost that war too had today's MSM been there -- oh, and please, please bring back the Iran-Contra debate -- I would LOVE for something like another Boland Amendment or even the War Powers Act itself to go to the ROBERTS Supreme Court. Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 12:25 PM | PERMALINKWell, you corrected the spelling of "Pulitzer" and removed the comma splice before "David McCullough." Otherwise, the cut and paste shows no improved value whatsoever. Posted by: Charlie's fifth-grade English teacher on November 21, 2006 at 12:27 PM | PERMALINKMr. Shaw (my 5th grade English teacher): You try typing here this much and see how perfect your sentence structure remains. Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 12:29 PM | PERMALINKTruth telling? You mean by telling the Democrats what they want to hear? What kind of hard questions will the Democratic senators ask? Yep, I am sure there will be some insightful questions emerging from the brilliant senators we have. Posted by: Orwell on November 21, 2006 at 12:32 PM | PERMALINKI remember his DCI confirmation hearings, and he did not in the least seem to be someone I would trust to provide straight analysis. Posted by: jayackroyd on November 21, 2006 at 12:33 PM | PERMALINKThe linked piece was okay except for the Micawber-like ending The nomination of Robert Gates to become secretary of Defense is an opportunity for him to demonstrate that he has learned from his mistakes ....fat chance. When do the 'old boy' Republicans learn from their mistakes? Bush takes from the whole horror of Vietnam, the singularly inappropriate lesson 'that we will succeed unless we quit' When these GOP politicians recall history, if they recall at all, they recall it as they made it for their own justification, and not from any objective analysis. Posted by: Steve Crickmore on November 21, 2006 at 12:34 PM | PERMALINKRather than getting caught up in an ideaological fight, it is important to remember that we really are coming to the end of the Bush presidency. Gates is somewhat irrelevant, and his confirmation should be put in the context of our first move towards change (read withdrawl) in Iraq. Posted by: enozinho (wetorture.com) on November 21, 2006 at 12:35 PM | PERMALINKThe Bush administration must be so rotten they can't afford to have any uncorrupted professionals working in it. Posted by: Boronx on November 21, 2006 at 12:37 PM | PERMALINKGosh, Orwell, I guess if Trent Lott is on the committee, he will ask, "Don't you think the White Citizens' Councils were right when they said that integration of the schools would result in the niggerfication of the country?" That's what he wants to hear. Posted by: Ace Franze on November 21, 2006 at 12:41 PM | PERMALINKYeah Ace if Robert Byrd is on the committee he could ask, "Don't you think that white nigers are as bad as black nigers?" Posted by: Orwell on November 21, 2006 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINKBoronx: Gates was fully investigated, and never indicted, by Independent Counsel Lawrence Walsh (who had no qualms indicting others BTW). Ace Franze: You do have to admit that, if we had elected Thurmond as President, then we wouldn't have all these problems, right? Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 12:47 PM | PERMALINKCheck out the testimony from Sen. Harkin many years ago, pointing out what a slippery, double-dealing and stonewalling character Gates is. Just 'cos he's not Rummy doesn't mean he isn't a key element of Bush Family & Co. The relevant link is: I'm sure that Gates won't be able to distort intelligence in order to lure us into another disastous war with Israel's enemy ...er..with an imminent threat to America's freedom. After all, we will have Jane Harman on the Intel Oversight Committee (HPSCI) to warn us of any bad intelligence. Just like she did 4 years ago re Iraq WMDs. No doubt that is why Haim Saban, Marty Peretz of New Republic, and the New York Times are lobbying Pelosi so strongly to make Harman the HPSCI Chair. Plus, as the Oct 20 TIME magazine article noted, Harman draws upon the deep intellectual resources of Haim Saban's Center for Middle East Policy. The same Saban Center whose Director of Research, Kenneth Pollack ,warned us about Saddam's nuclear bombs back in 2002. Anyone remember "The Threatening Storm"?? Posted by: Don Williams on November 21, 2006 at 12:51 PM | PERMALINKDavid McCullough:history::Joyce Brothers:psychology Posted by: Matt on November 21, 2006 at 12:56 PM | PERMALINKRe Jeffery's comment at 12:47 pm above: "Gates was fully investigated, and never indicted, by Independent Counsel Lawrence Walsh (who had no qualms indicting others BTW)." As I recall, Walsh's investigation was shut down on the last day of George Pere's administration after George H Bush pardoned about 15 high ranking officials at the Pentagon and CIA who were involved in Iran-Contra. Including someone named Negroponte. (Where have I heard that name before??) Possibly so that those 15 officials who have no incentive to squeal on George H Bush and ,yes, Robert Gates. Posted by: Don Williams on November 21, 2006 at 12:57 PM | PERMALINK"You do have to admit that, if we had elected Thurmond as President, then we wouldn't have all these problems, right?" We do have some big problem today, resulting from the assumption of Geo "Chimpy" Bush to the presidency, but I detect none that Strom would have enabled us to avoid.
Well, on the bright side, junior is burning through the Bush Family Cronies so quickly that there will hardly be any left for President Jenna. Who will most certainly need them. ptb: Thanks for the read. Don: George Pere? Matt: How many Pulitzer Prizes do you have? Ace: How about avoiding the entire Cold War -- Thurmond would have brought down the Soviet Union 40 years earlier and then no need for Ronald Reagan to do so -- you don't think that would have changed the world some? OBF: Don't worry; in 22 years, there will be a whole new set of cronies. Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 1:09 PM | PERMALINK"How about avoiding the entire Cold War -- Thurmond would have brought down the Soviet Union 40 years earlier and then no need for Ronald Reagan to do so -" Gimme a toke of that stuff. Posted by: Ace Franze on November 21, 2006 at 1:12 PM | PERMALINKAce I never said I admired Lott or Thurman. Keep trying to make stuff up and hope it sticks to me. Thurman is dead, he is irrelevant. Lott is a lame senator. And to your left is a picture of Steny "slavish" Hoyer who is now racist in charge of the majority in the house. The liberals are really diverse and how kind they are to let intollerant people lead them in this congress. Posted by: Orwell on November 21, 2006 at 1:13 PM | PERMALINKI'm not smoking anything. Scouts honor, Ace. Perhaps you never read one of Strom's tirades against the Russians and the Democrats being in cahoots? Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 1:15 PM | PERMALINKWhy this comes as news is mystifying. The entire subject of Gates' confirmation hearings under Bush I was his pronounced tendency to delete (correct) benign info about the Soviets and replace it with a (more fanciful) belligerent evaluation. Bill Bradley said at the time, If you want someone who'll get it wrong, he's your boy. He was the fore-runner of Cheney on Iraq intelligence. That this wasn't brought up day one is proof that our press corps no longer any institutional memory. Posted by: demtom on November 21, 2006 at 1:15 PM | PERMALINKSomeone name of Jennifer Glaudemans>
She also says this here:
How wise is it to make someone who was demonstrably wrong on the issue of the collapse of the Former Soviet Union the Secretary of Defense? What other major shift in reality will he charge past, eyes clamped shut, hands on ears, screaming da-da-da-da-da and head down, to the detriment of the civilized world? Captain Sensible figures the attacks on Ms Glaudemans will be forthcoming and they will be violent and unfair in their composition. Posted by: Captain Sensible on November 21, 2006 at 1:16 PM | PERMALINKFor Intell to matter, it must be free from distortion, casual partial dissemination and politicization. The failures of this administration stem from their inability to accept and act on good information. They are prone to send back rational discourse like an underdone chicken patty. The same reason they also hate science and all of its certainties tested through stringent methodology. They "know" without testing. They believe without understanding. Quetsioning Gates is a damned good thing, but I fear it all comes down to changing the outside sock-puppet on the Rumsfeld Dogma Doll. The fact that trolls, election passed, still roam here is a good indicator that the truth is something they hope to "shape." This deluded thinking must surely still hold sway on this administration. I would posit the troll or trolls here are administration -sent at this point. Everyone else has given up on this game. Given that, what does it say about the proclivities of this administration to hear hard truths when convenient omissions are always possible? Even today, after all the failures??? Every Jeffrey, charlie, Al, Ex-Lib Trash-hauling post rams home that truth is still not something countenanced in Rove's creation. And surely that is the rub. When the trolls leave, perhaps it will be a sign that someone cares again in the administration. I expect they will remain, a sad descant of delusion, till the bitter end of this administration, truncated or otherwise. Posted by: Sparko on November 21, 2006 at 1:19 PM | PERMALINK"Ace I never said I admired Lott or Thurman. Keep trying to make stuff up and hope it sticks to me. Thurman is dead, he is irrelevant. Lott is a lame senator.
Sparko: I am operating completely independent from the West Wing. Ace: In 1948, Thurmond and the States' Rights Democratic Party carried Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and South Carolina, and received one additional electoral vote in Tennessee. While known mostly for a campaign to retain Jim Crow laws and racial segregation, the party platform unanimously ddopted at Oklahoma City, August 14, 1948, on foreign policy and the Soviet Union especially, is very interesting indeed. Now, perhaps instead of a Cold War, we would have had a Hot (Nuclear) War instead. Nonetheless, no Vietnam war or terrorists (at least in their present form). How can you not detect even a tiny bit of difference in world history from that hypothetical scenario? Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINKSomeone name of Sparko>
Captain Sensible thinks you are correct; there are other types of trolls at work who are not really trolls. They are the ones with obvious personality defects who are jumping up and down for attention. These are not stable or healthy people who would receive any kind of payment or direction for what they are attempting to do; nor are they capable of consistent positions or intellectual discourse. They are whores for their own attention and are trying to fill a hole that was carved into them by some misfortune in life. Do you know the phenomena of the Today Show-type broadcasts, where people travel hundreds of miles to stand on a sidewalk where there is a camera pointed at someone cute? And they think they've accomplished something by standing where a camera is panning across a patch of open ground in a public place? Some people will do anything to feed the hole inside of them. Here at the end of the year 2006 that now includes disrupting blog threads. Posted by: Captain Sensible on November 21, 2006 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINKAt least I've never traveled hundreds of miles to stand on a sidewalk where there is a camera pointed at someone cute. I did once wait in line all night for a Star Wars movie, does that count? Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 1:34 PM | PERMALINKGates had a consistent history of slanting intelligence to fit both his own views and that of his political masters. Oh, he ought to fit in wonderfully with this Administration, then. some pointed questioning from the Senate would be in order during his confirmation hearing. You would think. Posted by: Gregory on November 21, 2006 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINKJeffery: Now, perhaps instead of a Cold War, we would have had a Hot (Nuclear) War instead. Nonetheless, no Vietnam war or terrorists (at least in their present form). How can you not detect even a tiny bit of difference in world history from that hypothetical scenario? Sure, perhaps things would have been much, much worse. Posted by: alex on November 21, 2006 at 1:38 PM | PERMALINKYes, Mother, I AM wearing my special underwear. No, Mother, my hands are NOT lingering down there. Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 1:40 PM | PERMALINKPerhaps, alex. I think avoiding the Cold War and its aftermath would have been worth it. But there's no doubt that Trent Lott was at least CORRECT when he said we wouldn't have all the SAME problems. Look, I'm not saying that I know, for a fact, that Strom Thurmond would have started a nuclear war with Russia, but in hindsight, that at least seems more likely. Thomas Dewey, had Lott taken away a couple more States from Truman's column, could have just as well too. Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 1:43 PM | PERMALINK. . . had THURMOND taken away more States, not LOTT. Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 1:44 PM | PERMALINKGates is a Bush 'yes' man thru and thru. No surprise there. What is a surprise is that Bush felt he needed more 'yes' men. I think the decision to fire Rummy had been made over a month ago (by Jim Baker). But timing it after the elections instead of before was a factor of who to replace him with. While Gates was high, if not 1st, on the list, Bush wasn't sure he needed more 'yes' men until after the "thumpin". Then, in true Bush fashion, the decider went for wagon-circling, not bipartisanship. Posted by: wishIwuz2 on November 21, 2006 at 1:45 PM | PERMALINKJeffery: Good thing too there wasn't a lot of "truth-telling" during WWII, or we'd all be speaking German right now. Or Japanese. Dateline: 12/7/41 Intelligence report to Republican president: those weren't Japanese planes Mr. President. We know for a fact that those people don't have the eyesight for flying planes. It was Mexicans in disguise. We even found burrito wrappers that fell from their planes. Republican President: tomorrow I'll ask Congress for a declaration of war against Mexico. Posted by: alex on November 21, 2006 at 1:46 PM | PERMALINKalex: You do know that Hitler WAS trying to get Mexico into the war on his side, right? Things in the real world usually are very complicated. Fighting a world war on different fronts is no different. Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 1:49 PM | PERMALINKFormer CIA operative and analyst Larry Johnson says that Robert Gates tried to rewrite an intelligence report to claim that Nelson Mandela was a communist, despite the analysts with actual expertise insisting that it was not so. He says Gates' "behavior was consistent with his reputation as a political animal willing to curry favor with the political masters downtown and sacrifice sound analysis". And Rumsfeld will be leaving behind the infrastructure Gates needs to keep cherry-picking intelligence to match the views of the guys on top. Posted by: Joe Buck on November 21, 2006 at 1:49 PM | PERMALINKIt was well known among analysts at the time that we would have a hard time getting Gates to sign off on analyses that did not fit his ideological preconceptions. All one had to do was look at his margin comments on controversial papers to know what was going on. Ten years from now a former analyst will be writing essentially this same piece, except that it will conclude: But their conflict was not with people who were "soft" on Saddam, it was with people who looked at all the available evidence, without much bias one way or another, and who had been to the Iraq and witnessed its hollow political and social structure, seeing not a sinister threat to the world but a clumsy, oafish regime often stumbling over its own feet.Posted by: trex on November 21, 2006 at 1:49 PM | PERMALINK Imagine that, Joe Buck, Gates is a "political animal" -- God forbid in Washington D.C. no less -- and Larry Johnson is such an honest, non-partisan source, right? Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 1:53 PM | PERMALINKOh, and you are sure that Nelson Mandela was never involved in underground armed resistance activities or the secretly reconstituted South African Communist Party (SACP), strongly adhering to the Moscow line at the time? Yeah, right. I've got a bridge for sale too. Jeffery: You do know that Hitler WAS trying to get Mexico into the war on his side, right? Which clearly would have justified telling the president that Mexico bombed Pearl Harbor. Ok, that's consistent with the "create your own reality" approach. BTW, which do you think is scarier. People who lie about grave matters of national security in order to curry political favor, or people who actually believe the untruths they spout about it (akin to psychotic delusions). Three witnesses testified that Mr. Gates slanted intelligence analysis as a senior agency official in the 1980's, while two others defended him. . . .Mr. Gates's detractors assert that the slanting of intelligence was largely confined to issues involving the Soviet Union, Soviet expansionism and C.I.A. covert operations. . . . Gates is just another ringer. Most of the Bush adminstration appointees are nothing but yes men and ringers. And in the fine tradition of Christie Whitman and Paul Bremer and Paul O'Neill, one day many of them will write books to exonerate themselves, describing how they were under duress and pressured to follow the adminstration line. Posted by: trex on November 21, 2006 at 2:06 PM | PERMALINKCaptain Sensible >"...What other major shift in reality will he charge past, eyes clamped shut, hands on ears, screaming da-da-da-da-da and head down, to the detriment of the civilized world?..." Any and all that would do "bad" things to the Carlyle Group obviously; gotta keep those trolls in cashable checks ya know Looks like it is going to come down to some "hand to hand" political in-fighting to destroy this infection "...you cannot save your face and your ass at the same time..." - vachon@shadrach.net Posted by: daCascadian on November 21, 2006 at 2:07 PM | PERMALINKalex: Bush never claimed that Saddam attacked the WTC. What are you talking about? Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 2:08 PM | PERMALINKYou do know that Hitler WAS trying to get Mexico into the war on his side, right? You do know that he failed and that Mexico actually fought on the Allied side, so attacking them in response to Pearl Harbor would have been counterproductive, right? Posted by: cmdicely on November 21, 2006 at 2:08 PM | PERMALINKBoy, there used to be some apparently sane posters around here taking a swing at promoting conservative positions. Today, we've actually reached the point of engaging in a fake discussion with a troll over how it would have been so much better to have a hot war with the former USSR instead of what actually occurred. Its now comedy central as opposed to political animal. Posted by: hank on November 21, 2006 at 2:09 PM | PERMALINKKevin, its too bad you only read blogs to get your information. Robert Parry, over at www.consortiumnews.com, is one of the best investigative journalists working today. Read him. The very slimy Robert Gates was nominated to be Director of Central Intelligence in 1987 by Ronnie Reagan, but Gates nomination had to be withdrawn, as there was significant evidence he had lied to both a grand jury and to a Congressional Committee investigating the Iran-Contra scandal. CIA veteran Ray McGovern has also written a letter to Sen. Carl Levin, urging Levin to investigate Gates tendency to exaggerate intelligence to fit political purposes. Gates may have also played a role in the "October Surprise" of 1980, where the incoming Reagan Administration made sure that the American hostages in Teheran were held longer than they needed to be, to puff up Ronald Reagan as some kind of hero, when he was in fact a brain-damaged coward. By the way, Jeffrey, the sale of Hawk missiles to Iran (an enemy of the United States, hence a treasonous act) in the mid-1980s was not only illegal under the so-called Boland Amendment, it was a violation of the Arms Export Control Act, as well as being plain and simple theft and illegal conversion of government property, which is illegal under Section 641 of Title 18 of the Federal Code. Of course, I wouldnt expect a blindly partisan conservative to know anything about the law. Jeffery: Bush never claimed that Saddam attacked the WTC. What are you talking about? He did claim that they had WMD's. What was he talking about? Posted by: alex on November 21, 2006 at 2:13 PM | PERMALINKSomeone name of cmdicely>
The Mexican Army in the field is not a terrifying sight to behold. Besides overwhelming a small garrison at a place name of the Alamo, there is not much to recommend the Mexican Army. They are known to be in the pay of the drug smuggling cartels; this is only because the cartels pay more than the Mexican government. What does it say of a man that he would argue the ridiculous hypothetical of sixty years ago while the Iraq war of today is sitting before him like a dose of reality? Flights of intellectual fantasy are all well and good as we try to understand what is going on, but the disrupter trolls are feeding the hole in their blown psyche, nothing more. Captain Sensible agrees that this is what a neocon would do, and a neocon is possessed by the need to display displaced agression.
Sometimes, it would appear, we are merely the smartest monkeys, nothing more. Posted by: Captain Sensible on November 21, 2006 at 2:20 PM | PERMALINKYou rock, Conservative Deflator. Keep on Deflatin' em! Posted by: Impeach.Remove.Convict.Punish.Justice on November 21, 2006 at 2:25 PM | PERMALINKThanks, IRCPJ! You do too. TCD Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on November 21, 2006 at 2:32 PM | PERMALINKCaptain Sensible: Flights of intellectual fantasy are all well and good as we try to understand what is going on, but the disrupter trolls are feeding the hole in their blown psyche, nothing more. All sense and no fun make Jack a dull boy. Posted by: alex on November 21, 2006 at 2:40 PM | PERMALINKKevin needs some serious troll repellent. They're worse than cockroaches. At least cockroaches go to Iraq. Posted by: MeLoseBrain? on November 21, 2006 at 2:40 PM | PERMALINKGimme a toke of that stuff. Stupidity? You don't want that, Ace, even if Charlie has it in spades. Posted by: MeLoseBrain? on November 21, 2006 at 2:43 PM | PERMALINKSometimes, it would appear, we are merely the smartest monkeys, nothing more. And other times, it would appear, we are not even that. Look at Charlie. Posted by: MeLoseBrain? on November 21, 2006 at 2:48 PM | PERMALINKSomeone name of alex> Oh, fun is to be had by all when Captain Sensible thinks the time is right. Serious threads that are just starting out are no place for hijinks. The hole blown through the psyche of a disrupter troll is a place where you can twist their insides and make them screech with a sound that will delight your ears. They feed on the ability of others to express what it is they think and feel. When you can easily do so and have a good time, as Captain Sensible often does at their expense, they will react with jealousy and rage. No, not the right time to have fun. Perhaps later. An abandoned thread, maybe. Posted by: Captain Sensible on November 21, 2006 at 2:48 PM | PERMALINKRumsfeld was fired, with nothing at all to do with the election. Rummy was supposed to represent the US at a conference in Germany. When word went out, just prior to the election, that Rummy was about to be charged with war-crimes in Germany, and might possibly be arrested, and faced with the choice of pulling out of the conference because our Sec Def was compromised and likely to be arrested, or actually sending him, and hoping they didn't arrest him, Bush decided to let him go. Posted by: Impeach.Remove.Convict.Punish.Justice on November 21, 2006 at 3:03 PM | PERMALINKOf course, this all makes sense; Rummy armed Saddam - so he's the Sec Def for our Iraq campaign. Gates armed Iran, so he's the Sec Def for our Iran campaign. Posted by: Impeach.Remove.Convict.Punish.Justice on November 21, 2006 at 3:06 PM | PERMALINKI would love for the Democrats in Congress to hold up the SecDef nomination wank wank wank I believe the appropriate response is: damn Conservative Deflator, I was just talking out of my ass and then you handed it to me. Also, you failed to point out Robert M. Gates' multiple contributions to the Bush campaigns and to Republicans over the years, which proves the bias we're alleging here, right? (as if concurring opinions by other career analysts weren't enough). Posted by: trex on November 21, 2006 at 3:13 PM | PERMALINKSomeone name of trex>
There is an acronym, and it is: It's Okay If You Are A Republican [IOKIYAR] Apparently, if one gives money to a political party, not only are they using a pesky thing called free speech, they are instantly impeaching any credibility they once may have had. Hypocrisy abounds, and Captain Sensible can only sit back and watch it drown those who are not cautious in recognizing it for what it is. Posted by: Captain Sensible on November 21, 2006 at 3:23 PM | PERMALINKGates is the original facts-fixer. THe hair on my neck stood up when poppy named him director of central intelligence and it stood up again when aWol named him as Rummy's replacement. George Schultz' memoires are less than kind to Gates and his propensity for doling out selective intel. If it were up to him the colw war would have gone on and both countries would have bankrupted. Also, remember he was Condi's mentor. Posted by: Global Citizen on November 21, 2006 at 3:36 PM | PERMALINKI'd much rather have had a "hot war" (preferably one with minimal U.S. casualties -- they didn't even get the bomb until 1949 -- Patton was right in hindsight) with the Soviet Union, if it saved 58,000 American dead in Vietnam, billions enslaved under Communist rule, and terrorism as we know it today -- call me crazy. There goes brave Charlie again, advocating a awar that he won't have to fight in, this one because he probably wasn't born yet. OK, dumbfuck, a little history lesson, Stalin had millions of troops in the European theater, while Omar Bradley had, what, less than a million? Patton was wrong, you dumbfuck. Invading the USSR would have been suicide. But, since you wouldn't have been fighting, you gutless coward, what do you care? Well, other than speaking Russian. Posted by: MeLoseBrain? on November 21, 2006 at 3:54 PM | PERMALINKMeLoseBrain: I'm not Charlie, and I'm not saying an invasion would have been the best course of action -- in hindsight, the best way to have stopped the Soviet Union was to drop a nuke (or more, if necessary) before 1949. Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 3:58 PM | PERMALINKThe questions surrounding how Gates deals with intelligence are important, since as SecDef he will have control over most of the American intelligence infrastructure since it is in the hands of the military. While I doubt he is as ideologically driven as Rumsfeld was, his prior pattern of shaping intelligence to suit the ideological/political agenda of his bosses is not something that to my mind recommends him to fix the Iraq mess created by an Administration that has been run according to ideological beliefs instead of reality. Particularly when one considers that the main reasons for why the Iraq mess is so much a disaster is because of the unwillingness of the President to hear anything different so it is reasonable to be concerned that Gates will not be any better at providing the harsh truth of reality to Bush than Rumsfeld and the rest of the war cabinet. Bush "won" reelection as the War President, as the only one that could be trusted to manage national security issues and run a war competently and successfully. I rather doubt Bush is going to be willing to hear anything which contradicts this idea, he would rather leave a disaster for his successor rather than have to publicly admit he was wrong and has badly bungled how the Iraq war was run from beginning to end AS WELL AS the greater so called war on terror by ignoring Afghanistan after leaving it half done so it could start falling apart as it has been doing over the last couple of years now. Gates needs to be scrutinized closely, and personally I think it is worth the rhetoric the GOP will use to claim the Dems are being "obstructionist" in holding the confirmation up until the Senate changes hands. The only argument I have heard for advancing Gates confirmation prior to the changeover that makes any sense at all to me is that it gets Rumsfeld out of the job sooner. The problem with that reasoning to me though is that if Gates is not going to be significantly better at recognizing reality and operating in the reality based world on Iraq and making sure his boss knows the truth/reality with Iraq then he is not the man to replace Rumsfeld with. While Rumsfeld is a ideologue first and Gates is a bootlicker first in the end the inability to place ugly reality in front of the President will only serve to continue the disastrous Iraq policy America has been on from the outset. That is what makes being seriously skeptical of Gates so important and why his confirmation should not be accelerated despite the feelings of some that just getting a SecDef that will tend to work in the reality based world is a major improvement, especially since there are questions as to just how well he operates in the reality based world when he works in government/Administration positions given his history. in hindsight, the best way to have stopped the Soviet Union was to drop a nuke (or more, if necessary) before 1949. Yes, that's a course of action that all Charlie's personas have loyally endorsed. Now shut the fuck up and get back to cleaning Wal-Mart toilets and dreaming of glory in the next election, sheepface. We're going to need you fresher than you've been around here lately. Posted by: GOP authoritarians on November 21, 2006 at 4:03 PM | PERMALINKScotian >"...in the end the inability to place ugly reality in front of the President will only serve to continue the disastrous Iraq policy America has been on from the outset..." Ahhh yes but that IS the point of the exercise, to maintain said disaster (Middle East policy) so that the American military machine is bled to death slowly but surely so as not to set off any "alarms" & arouse the dozzzzzing mass. No tinfoil hats needed as the competing cabals of insanity (of which the Carlyle Group is only one among many) race to see which faction can rule the solar system (which group will be able to send their explorers to the Moon & Mars to claim their bounty for all eternity ?) much as the English faction did starting ~400 years ago with our planet. Plots w/in plots w/in plots (Hello Shakespearians !)... Check out the anti-NATO & remember where all the money comes from that is continuing to fuel the American based cabal of insanity all are raging against; everyone wants to overthrow the current King of the Hill so a new one can come into being. Many not so smart monkeys me thinks "For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill" - Sun Tzu Posted by: daCascadian on November 21, 2006 at 6:42 PM | PERMALINK'I'm still not sure how any INCOMING Reagan Administration makes sure that the American hostages are held longer -- are you claiming someone from Reagan's team secretly promised quid pro quo -- any better than the current President of Iran wanted at the time. And I'm not clear what you are talking about - although I suspect you don't know what you are talking about either. The October Surprise was carried out by many government insiders including a real corrupt criminal named George H.W. Bush, CIA director William Casey, Robert Gates and other right-wing dirtbags, who wanted to discredit and humiliate Jimmy Carter, who accepted and implemented many of the Church Committees recommendations to overhaul the CIA (they should have shut the damn organization down). The October Surprise was part of a long history of treasonous dealings between the Bushes and Iran, that ultimately resulted in the selling of missiles illegally to Iran in 1986 and using the stolen taxpayer money to illegally arm the Contras in Nicaragua. Essentially, a treasonous two-fer. 'I would love for the Democrats in Congress to hold up the SecDef nomination DURING WAR based on alleged Hawk missile transfers 20 years ago -- then you can argue legal nuances with the likes of John Roberts, Samuel Alito, and Douglas Kmiec -- unfortunately, Reid is too smart for that briar patch and has already stated the confirmation will go forward without a hitch. Which WAR? Do you mean the occupation of Iraq? True - it is a civil war that the U.S. military is in the middle of, but which army are we fighting? Where are their uniforms? Their flag? It is regrettable that Harry Reid won't challenge a treasonous criminal like Robert Gates' nomination for SecDef, but that is not anything I can control. As far as the SCOTUS having any say in Gates' nomination, I have no idea what you are referring to. Are you on crack? Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on November 21, 2006 at 6:43 PM | PERMALINKThe Conservative Deflator >"...I have no idea what you are referring to. Are you on crack?" Probably methamphetamine from the look of the posted stuff *scary* what being on the losing side will do to some people (assuming it IS a person & not a script of some sort) "Before the Internet, the idiot tended to stay in his own village." - unknown Posted by: daCascadian on November 21, 2006 at 8:01 PM | PERMALINKAnd did Moscow susequently increase relations with Iran and train terrorists in torture techniques for them? Why yes. Yes they did. Posted by: aaron on November 22, 2006 at 8:05 AM | PERMALINK19 of 77 comments are Jeffererery's. That's about 25%. These threads are being ruined. I'm usually all for letting anybody post regardless of opinions, but he's hijacking the site. 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