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   During a recession, should college presidents face the same pay cuts as CEOs?
 Forty years of writing from Taylor Branch, James Fallows, Katherine Boo, Marjorie Williams, Joshua Micah Marshall, and more.
 With help from Washington, the for-profit college industry is loading up millions of low-income students with debt they'll never pay off.
 The best recent memoir from republican Washington is a hoax. That should tell you something.
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November 21, 2006
By: EAT YOUR VEGGIES!....The Wall Street Journal offers advice on how to get your kids to like vegetables:
15? I figure I must have eaten about a thousand servings each of peas, spinach, and green beans when I was growing up. But I still don't like them. I think the Penn State boffins may have miscalculated slightly here. —Kevin Drum 8:08 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (79)Comments
I must have mutant kids. Both my 3 and 6 year old love veggies and always have (ok, except lima beans, but be serious). At one time we gave my son veggies after the rest of the meal, lest he not eat anything else. Posted by: alex on November 21, 2006 at 8:13 PM | PERMALINKMy advice to parents: Give up on squash. I can vividly recall the bitter taste squash had for me when I was a kid, even after my parents tried the Jedi Mind Trick of "Eat it. It's delicious." Now? With butter, it is in fact delicious. Sometimes you just gotta wait for some taste buds to die. Posted by: scarshapedstar on November 21, 2006 at 8:14 PM | PERMALINKOf course it helps if you just cook things right in the first place and give them to a hungry kid. Posted by: paul on November 21, 2006 at 8:16 PM | PERMALINKscarshapedstar: Give up on squash. What kind of squash? There are so many. The whole family likes butternut. If you pour enough American Cheese Food Product sauce on them, any vegetable can be a Fun Food that kids love. Sincerely, Stefan Jones I never liked lima beans until I had some fresh ones made be a friend who can cook. On the other hand, cilantro only took about 15 attempts before I started likiing it. In other words, it's probably all about your mom. Posted by: B on November 21, 2006 at 8:18 PM | PERMALINKWhat is this, the "Stay the Course" theory of childraising? Maybe if you strapped your kids to a board with their heads below their feet and stuffed the vegetables into their mouths, they'd eat them. Or at least confess to who really bit whom first. Posted by: brooksfoe on November 21, 2006 at 8:21 PM | PERMALINKExposure? That's fine. That said, I have awful memories of being forced to eat food I found distasteful. Not forced as being shoved down my throat, but "You're not leaving this table until you eat all of that." These standoffs sometimes lasted for a couple of hours. Parents need to keep in mind that even though children are children, they are autonomous human beings who have their own sense of taste. Posted by: Joe Bob on November 21, 2006 at 8:22 PM | PERMALINKHey, Kevin, what is wrong with green beans and peas? With the right stir fry the green beans are wonderful, but all you have to do is avoid the canned stuff. Fresh green beans are usually good steamed, or stew them for 5 minutes in a small can of diced tomatoes. Posted by: troglodyte on November 21, 2006 at 8:26 PM | PERMALINKSometimes you just gotta wait for some taste buds to die. This is true. Children have a much stronger ability to pick up bitter tastes than adults do. Carrots, peas, corn and other "sweet" vegetables tend to be much more palatable to kids than things like lima beans, green peppers and zucchini. There are lots of exceptions, but these are the general rules. Plus, between a quarter and a third of the population are designated "supertasters"--their taste buds are on overdrive. Exceptionally picky eaters often fall into this category. Posted by: feeding frenzy on November 21, 2006 at 8:27 PM | PERMALINKMy kids LOVE peas and green beans. Broccoli, too. But they can't stand salad greens. But I have to keep trying. It's far, far too easy to drift into a Velveeta and hot dog diet, because kids like bland food above all. Posted by: dj moonbat on November 21, 2006 at 8:28 PM | PERMALINKYum, veggies ! "Proof depends on who you are. We're looking for a preponderance of evidence, and some people need more of a preponderance than other people." - John Kantner Posted by: daCascadian on November 21, 2006 at 8:31 PM | PERMALINKThere must be something genetic going on. Speaking of food - do you want to know an overlooked treat? Watermelon seeds. Yes, the black ones that people spit out. They have a nice nutty flavor and it is a pity to waste them. Posted by: Tripp on November 21, 2006 at 8:41 PM | PERMALINKSurely they only mean some vegetables. Others, like canned spinach or liver, are simply inedible to a young child. Posted by: Xanthippas on November 21, 2006 at 8:46 PM | PERMALINKMy kids always have loved vegetables. The secret was to buy the best fresh picked ones you could find, or to grow your own. Fresh peas right out of the garden, green beans still warm from the sun, sweet tomatoes, baby lettuce, they ate it all. Steamed squash of all types with a bit of real butter, and so on .... Posted by: Carol on November 21, 2006 at 8:50 PM | PERMALINKMy brothers and I, as kids, generally preferred vegetables to meat. My parents had to have us eat our salads at the end of the meal so we wouldn't fill up on that before we ate the meat. I think some of it was also growing up poor-ish in the seventies when meat options were generally pretty bad (while the vegetables were usually fresh from the garden). So I guess the lesson is to make your kids eat their vegetables, make the meat options less palatable and the vegetables more palatable. Posted by: don hosek on November 21, 2006 at 8:51 PM | PERMALINKAsparagus was inedible when I was small. I think that I started enjoying vegetables after I got to plant and harvest my first beans. A lot of kids enjoy eating what they have grown themselves. Posted by: J Bean on November 21, 2006 at 8:52 PM | PERMALINKMy 8-year-old daughter has always been an enthusiatic eater of zucchini, broccoli, corn, peas, tomatos and carrots. She's so used to veggies that she objects if the meal doesn't have something green. She never liked bell peppers, though, and has no tolerance for any spiciness at all.
Sometimes I think it's all in the presentation. Like B said, Lima Beans are a great example. Hated them -- the kind that comes in a frozen bag. Then I brought some at the local farmer's market along with some shallots, jalopeno pepper and fresh sage. I sauted the shallots and pepper along with four slices of bacon. Then I added 1 1/2 cups chicken stock, the fresh sage and the lime beans. I simmered for about 30 minutes and it was fantastic tasting. Green beans? I love to cook them and then toss them in a gently heated mixture of crushed garlic, large pat of butter, crumbled stilton cheese and salt & pepper to taste. So if you're serving plain veggies, maybe that's the problem? Posted by: HokieAnnie on November 21, 2006 at 8:57 PM | PERMALINKTripp: I loathed squash as a kid and still do. Ugh, which squash? Zucchini, pattypan, yellow crookneck, butternut, Hubbard, buttercup, ambercup, acorn, or spaghetti? You squash haters are un-American. No Thanksgiving dinner for you. Posted by: alex on November 21, 2006 at 8:57 PM | PERMALINKOT alert! Kevin, if you're still around: Have you noticed "jeffery"'s antics on the thread below? Somebody mixed his meds cocktail wrong and he's putting up his garbage every third or fourth post. Surely you're aware of this. Yes, he's lame, inconsequential, pathetic but he does succeed in his distractions. It would be impossible to ignore someone flinging mustard in a gallery while you're trying to look at the paintings. You have many fine commenters here, Kevin, but I'm becoming less and less likely to read them now. I'm sure others like me are similarly being chased away. Forgive my clumsy writing. I'm calling for a kind of censorship and that doesn't sit well. Although making a law against crank callers isn't really censorship is it? Because that's what Charlie/alias/alias/alias/Jeffery is. He's a crank caller who lives to annoy. Please get rid of him. Regards. So what's the lesson here? We all have different tastes, and in that way, the tastes of kids are rather extreme, meaning everything will be that much stronger, especially in the don't like catagory. So find out what goes with their particular pallette, and slowly build out that way. As time goes on and the sensitivity of the taste buds dies down, the selection of food will grow. Posted by: Karmakin on November 21, 2006 at 8:58 PM | PERMALINKI've read that children start developing tastes for things while still in the womb, based on what Mom eats. I don't know if that's true or not, but we have always enjoyed a wide variety of foods, including vegetables, and now our 2 year old eats basically everything. We never make her eat something she doesn't want, but we continue to serve it for meals and she always comes around eventually. Posted by: mike-2 on November 21, 2006 at 9:04 PM | PERMALINKDid someone upthread make liver a vegetable? I think we've got part of the problem there. Posted by: Karl on November 21, 2006 at 9:06 PM | PERMALINKOh, and on the topic of bribing/punishing kids for behavior vs. respecting their individuality, there's a book called Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn that is a magical doorway to a mysterious and wonderful land of parenting adventures you only ever dreamed of. Posted by: mike-2 on November 21, 2006 at 9:09 PM | PERMALINKP.S. to mike-2 -- nice try, but we all KNOW that "it" is not human as long as "it" stays in the womb, so therefore cannot learn, experience, or feel anything -- kinda like "it puts the lotion on its back and places the lotion in the basket." Posted by: Jeffery on November 21, 2006 at 9:15 PM | PERMALINKmike-2 >"...there's a book called Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn that is a magical doorway..." Nice, sounds like he is suggesting parents be the parents we all wanted when we were kids. Sounds like real healthy advice. "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." Buckminster Fuller Posted by: daCascadian on November 21, 2006 at 9:21 PM | PERMALINKThe only secret is to cook them in ways that taste good. I loved brussel sprouts as a kid, not because I'm a mutant, but because they were cooked to taste good, with brown sugar and walnuts. Too many parents try to force flavorless boiled food that they would never eat themselves onto the plates of their offspring. Posted by: Steve Simitzis on November 21, 2006 at 9:38 PM | PERMALINKI love my ketchup. Ketchup is the bestest vegetable ever! Posted by: Baby Reagan on November 21, 2006 at 9:47 PM | PERMALINKYou tell your kids not to complain. If they don't eat peas, spinach, and green beans then they are not hungry. Posted by: MatthewRMarler on November 21, 2006 at 9:53 PM | PERMALINKIf there is nothing but vegatables on their plate at dinner, breakfast and lunch, your children will eventually like vegies. Posted by: the fake fake al on November 21, 2006 at 9:58 PM | PERMALINK"I hate stir fry!" "I hate stir fry!" Trader Joe's fresh (not frozen) stir fry. Bok Choy, Snow Peas, Snap Peas. A little teriyaki and some chicken. My monsters ate the whole thing and demanded more. They were upset the (Trader Joe's) edamame were already peeled. The little bastards didn't believe me when I told them I worked my fingers to the bone picking and peeling them and insisted on showing me the empty package in the trash can. But they ate them. Posted by: jerry on November 21, 2006 at 10:02 PM | PERMALINKAccept != like. I'd guess that "accept" in this case means to stop bitching and just eat it. Posted by: Aaron S. Veenstra on November 21, 2006 at 10:02 PM | PERMALINKI must be different. I cannot stand meat or the smell of fish. Posted by: gregor on November 21, 2006 at 10:53 PM | PERMALINKOnce children taste the fast food, they are not going to choose wholesome vegetables. My advice would be to serve fresh veggies with savory sauces. Fresh veggies make a big difference, but choice competition with the sugared and MSG'd industrialized foods is a temptation most people cannot overcome, let alone children (let alone me). Keep it out of the environment. Posted by: Hostile on November 21, 2006 at 11:00 PM | PERMALINKNever had problems eating vegetables in my youth. Perhaps it's because mom regularly bought those Green Giant vegetables in butter sauce (frozen pouches). The sauce brought out the flavor of lima beans, spinach, broccoli, and so on. (And to this day, I'll never understand how George H.W. Bush loathed broccoli. Brussels sprouts or squash, I could see -- aversion to those would be normal. But broccoli?) Posted by: Vincent on November 21, 2006 at 11:01 PM | PERMALINKHostile, what works for me is sprinking some crushed up "herb" into their afternoon treats. Posted by: jerry on November 21, 2006 at 11:03 PM | PERMALINKBush is a douchebag to be sure, but he his dislike of broccoli may be genetics. Posted by: jerry on November 21, 2006 at 11:09 PM | PERMALINKMeat is easier to stand when it's frozen. Posted by: jerry on November 21, 2006 at 11:10 PM | PERMALINKYou and Poppy Bush, Kevin. Just wanted to say how idiotic people like you look to us vegetarians. PROUD of not liking veggies! The most effective thing you can do to save the planet is to become a vegetarian. No one should be proud of their laggardness. Veggie production is ten times for efficient in making protein than beef. If everyone gave up meat and all pasture land was converted to edible crops, wed have ten times more food available to feed the multitudes. The rain forests are being lost because they are being turned into pasture land to feed your beef habit. If no one ate meat we would not have aids, ebola, bird flue or any of the other diseases that jumped to humans through the food chain. My seven kids, 41 to 22, are all vegetarians and wouldnt dream of injesting foul, rank flesh. So you see, it can be done through upbringing. All that said, vegetarianism has been proved over and over to be the healthiest lifestyle. People who eat animals are not unlike Neocons who send others kids to die in war. Animals are being mistreated, slaughtered by the millions, the blood runs in rivers and youd rather not think about it. It also contributes powerfully to our national obsession with gore and war. Do humanity a favor and give it up. Posted by: James of DC on November 21, 2006 at 11:26 PM | PERMALINKUh, if people didn't have seven kids we'd all be much better off. Posted by: jerry on November 21, 2006 at 11:35 PM | PERMALINKseven kids! dude, you're taking down the rainforest yourself with all that unbridled conception. you know you can have sex without having kids every time, right? Posted by: officious commenter (who happens to be a vegetarian also) on November 21, 2006 at 11:48 PM | PERMALINKThe easiest way to get kids to like veggies is to reduce the amount of sugar, salt and fat in their diet. Consider pizza, steak, and french fries like cake or brownies. Avoid sugar cereals and doughnuts for breakfast and feed them dinner before 7pm get them to bed before 9pm so they'll be hungry enough in the morning to eat something that isn't sweet. If you cut back gradually, it will be easier for them to adjust and thus easier on your nerves. BTW, if the kids won't eat breakfast at all it's evidence they aren't getting enough sleep. Posted by: joe on November 22, 2006 at 12:20 AM | PERMALINKI'm surprised the WSJ editorial page doesn't co-opt this story as its latest Iraq strategy: "America, eat your Iraq vegetables!" Posted by: SocraticGadfly on November 22, 2006 at 12:32 AM | PERMALINKIf your parents think boiled spinach is a good way to eat vegitables instead of saag? It's all about acceptance and also making them palatable. Most people don't even know how to make things palatable... Posted by: Crissa on November 22, 2006 at 1:19 AM | PERMALINK"My kids always have loved vegetables." Same here. My toddler luuuurves green vegetables. Asparagus, green beans, even broccoli, which is breaking International Brotherhood of Toddlers union rules. The little bugger was even eating Japanese seaweed salad before he could walk properly. I don't know what we did right. Partly we made our on baby food from pureeing veggies and then freezing them in ice cubes, and partly 'cos we kept forgetting to bring snacks with us for the kid when on trips. So he's used to eating meals, not grazing. Plus, we're too damn busy to cook him his own food. Posted by: Urinated State of America on November 22, 2006 at 1:44 AM | PERMALINKMy daughter (11 months old) loves vegetables, especially zucchini and peas. She likes nearly everything we've given her, but she has some fairly clear preferences: fruit is her very favorite (especially raspberries), but green peas are a close second. She's not crazy about potatoes, and will eat them only if nothing she likes better is offered. We're not giving her asparagus until she's toilet trained, though. I've always liked most vegetables, and I've never understood the assumption that kids don't like vegetables and have to be forced or bribed or cajoled into eating them. Janet, it must go back several generations. Back when broccoli was relatively new to many U.S. consumers, circa 1928, E.B. White drew a cartoon for the New Yorker that showed a child turning up her nose at the new vegetable with the tagline, "I say it's spinach, and I say the hell with it!" In fact, not long after that, Irving Berlin wrote a song with that title. Actually, the exact title of Berlin's song was "I Say It's Spinach, And To Hell With It." Not a bad little ditty -- nowhere as profound or as moving as "How Deep Is The Ocean," but enjoyable just the same. Posted by: Vincent on November 22, 2006 at 3:03 AM | PERMALINKWhile we're being silly, I ought to mention that the cover of an early paperback edition of "The Day of the Triffids" depicted some rather threatening broccoli. My nieces and nephews are now adults, and while they don't all eat that many vegetables (steamed or grilled) they do enjoy their salads. And, being Californians, they thrive on peppers. Perhaps they avoided some vegetables because they were "high tasters", or whatever the term is, but they've since learned to enjoy a little bitterness. The students/hippies I lived among in Berkeley, way back then, tolerated and expected things like broccoli and spinach, though we did tend to smother them in butter and cheese. Posted by: bad Jim on November 22, 2006 at 4:10 AM | PERMALINKMake'em eat a vitamin, then who cares what they eat. Cook dinner, if they won't eat it, they don't eat. Life's too short to battle children about food. Posted by: luci on November 22, 2006 at 4:46 AM | PERMALINKI'm a chef and a parent and I must say it is shocking how ignorant Americans are when it comes to food. Most vegetables will taste bad if overcooked and yet most Americans when they do attempt a vegetable insist on overcooking it. You don't like green beans Kevin? Saute [that's lightly fry for you morons out there] the raw beans for a couple of minutes in a hot pan, season, throw in some garlic, onions, some fresh oregano, bit of butter if you like - and believe me you won't hate green beans anymore. A carrot should just flat out never be eaten cooked. As for kids and vegetables that's easy: do not give them anything sweet until you've exposed them to your basic vegetables and starches first and their palettes will adjust accordingly. Most of you are ruining your kids diets by giving them juice way too early and way too often. Stop with the juice! I've raised three kids using simple advice above and they will eat just about anything. Posted by: chef oh chef on November 22, 2006 at 7:51 AM | PERMALINKProof that the past 6 years of conserative rule has helped our country:
While out-of-wedlock births have long been associated with teen mothers, the teen birth rate actually dropped last year to the lowest level on record. Instead, births among single mothers rose most dramatically among women in their 20s. The overall rise reflects the burgeoning number of people who are putting off marriage or living together without getting married. The increase in births to unwed mothers was seen in all racial groups, but rose most sharply among Hispanics. It was up among all age groups except youngsters ages 10 to 17. "A lot of people think of teenagers and unmarried mothers synonymously, but they are not driving this," said Stephanie Ventura of the National Center for Health Statistics, a co-author of the report. http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/11/21/unmarried.births.ap/index.html Posted by: Jeffery on November 22, 2006 at 7:54 AM | PERMALINKVegetables are like fish. So many people don't know how to cook them so they taste good, so kids hate them. I mean, really. How likes steamed broccoli with no spices whatsoever, or baked cod in butter (and nothing else)? However, you take that broccoli and sautee it with a little olive oil, salt, pepper, garlic and onion, you've got something nice. Throw that in that cod, but cut the butter, add dill, black pepper, lemon and salt, and pan fry it? You've got yourself a nice little meal. Posted by: Joe on November 22, 2006 at 8:08 AM | PERMALINKI am dismayed by many of the comments here, since I've raised three kids using simple advice above and they will eat just about anything. Posted by: chef oh chef Well, aren't you just the bee's knees. Posted by: A Moron Out There on November 22, 2006 at 9:18 AM | PERMALINKi'm a very picky eater, but there are only a handful of vegetables i don't like in one form or another. squash, radishes and "baby" corn are the only ones that come to mind. for all the others, there's at least one way of cooking/preparation that i like. My seven kids, 41 to 22, are all vegetarians and wouldnt dream of injesting foul, rank flesh. me either. it's important to buy fresh, un-spoiled meat and cook it with lots of tasty herbs and spices. Posted by: cleek on November 22, 2006 at 9:19 AM | PERMALINKI must have eaten about a thousand servings each of peas, spinach, and green beans when I was growing up. But I still don't like them. (Kevin) Real liberals love peas, spinach, and green beans. Posted by: Gary Sugar on November 22, 2006 at 9:33 AM | PERMALINK"Real liberals love peas, spinach, and green beans." All we are saying is.........give peas a chance. Posted by: Urinated State of America on November 22, 2006 at 10:04 AM | PERMALINKInternational Brotherhood of Toddlers union rules, heh. Isn't picky eating a symptom of American gluttony? Is a starving man a picky eater? I doubt it. I don't know about that, but my own theory, which has enjoyed admittedly limited testing, is that excessively picky eaters also tend to be sexual prudes. Non-adventurous eaters are frequently woefully non-adventurous in bed. Gotta have a lust for life, baby. Flame away. Posted by: shortstop on November 22, 2006 at 10:06 AM | PERMALINK"My seven kids, 41 to 22, are all vegetarians and wouldnt dream of injesting foul, rank flesh. me either. it's important to buy fresh, un-spoiled meat and cook it with lots of tasty herbs and spices." In college, I lived in a house with 2 vegetarians and a vegan, on condition that I bring no dead animal into the house. After craving rancid flesh of murdered mammals for all that year, I decided that for a meal to be worth eating, an animal has to suffer for it. "Most of you are ruining your kids diets by giving them juice way too early and way too often. Stop with the juice!" Especially with the corn-syrup sweetened so-called "juice-drinks" they market for kids. Milk (with a dash of cocoa or chocolate milk to close the deal) works just fine. Posted by: Urinated State of America on November 22, 2006 at 10:09 AM | PERMALINKI must have mutant kids. Both my 3 and 6 year old love veggies and always have My 9 year old is a veggie lover - she brings her lunch to school, but she also buys the vegetables the school cafeteria is serving. I hated vegetables as a child, but then I realized it was because my mother is the worst cook in the world. Posted by: maurinsky on November 22, 2006 at 10:53 AM | PERMALINKlet me tell you, as kids, our parents indoctrinated us into the lifestyle of healthy eating by a strict enforcement policy of not leaving the dinner table until all veggies have been consumed. it worked and it worked well. not only do i enjoy the oddities of the vegetable world, such as brussels sprouts, beet greens, or kale, my daily diet is heavily weighted toward the food group. my body's all the more happy for it! Posted by: sed on November 22, 2006 at 10:54 AM | PERMALINKKevin, if you didn't like your veggies as a kid, they weren't prepared properly. Posted by: raj on November 22, 2006 at 11:03 AM | PERMALINKI do think parents give up too early on introducing foods to their kids, but I also think parents need to model vegetable eating behaviour. When kids see their parents prefer to eat fast food and the like they can't help but come to the conclusion veggies=bad, Mickie Dee's=good. I've always loved veggies, and so do my kids. And I'm glad chef oh chef isn't my chef. I'll take my veggies cooked, thanks anyway. Posted by: KathyF on November 22, 2006 at 11:45 AM | PERMALINKIt took me awhile (>40 years), but I eat fresh veggies now. Except for Brussels Sprouts, asparagus, and okra. There are a few frozen veggies that are edible, but not as many. I still can't abide canned veggies. Canned peas? Heaven help us. Canned spinach? Popeye, I suspect you spit it out when we weren't looking. Posted by: Jeffrey Davis on November 22, 2006 at 12:26 PM | PERMALINKMy daughter (9) eats all kinds of veggies. OTOH, she also ate the eyes from a lobster the first time she had it. That was a bit much even for me, and I pride myself on trying anything. Posted by: PetervE on November 22, 2006 at 12:33 PM | PERMALINKWow, I'm an effete snob, and even I am appalled by how patronizing some of you are being. (Note to chef oh chef: Come on, you can be more obnoxious than that -- you're barely even trying! Where's your passion?) I also find it odd that people who claim to like vegetables think that the only way to make them palatable is to flavor them with lots of garlic and spices. Most vegetables are fine lightly steamed, with just a little salt. That's not my preferred way to eat most vegetables -- sauteeing or roasting carmelizes some of the sugars, thus increasing depth of flavor -- but messing with vegetables too much (e.g. glazing vegetables that are already sweet, like carrots and beets) is the surest way to ruin them. There's nothing wrong with frozen vegetables. In most parts of the country, for at least half the year, you're far better off buying good quality frozen vegetables -- which are frozen soon after picking and preserve more of the flavor than "fresh" vegetables that have been trucked or flown in from halfway across the country -- or the world. Posted by: janet on November 22, 2006 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINKI always thought peas came in a box, and were hard until Mom boiled the bejesus out of them. Didn't like 'em. After Dad got "retired" for serial truth-telling and started growing veggies in the backyard I discovered these fresh, luscious round things. "These aren't peas! These taste good! Same with a lot of other veggies, including the dreaded squash. Posted by: mister pea-deantic on November 22, 2006 at 1:05 PM | PERMALINKperhaps we should all realize that children are human, and force feeding them crap that they hate is cruel and controlling. Does it really make more sense to force kids to eat vegtables they hate then to buy them vitamins? No, it just gets controlling fucks off who think raising a kid is payback for all the shitty things their parents did for them. For the record, I love both peas and spinach. Nobody ever had to make me eat either. And had they tried, I wouldn't have. I never did. I just decided not to let my parents have much input when it comes time to raise my own children. Posted by: Soullite on November 22, 2006 at 1:51 PM | PERMALINK"There's nothing wrong with frozen vegetables. In most parts of the country, for at least half the year, you're far better off buying good quality frozen vegetables -- which are frozen soon after picking and preserve more of the flavor than "fresh" vegetables that have been trucked or flown in from halfway across the country -- or the world." Fish, too. Almost all of the "fresh" fish you buy--basically anything except stuff you get off the docks in coastal towns, and SOME types of fish from the "day" boats--was frozen immediately after being caught, then shipped to your grocery store or fishmonger, then thawed to be sold "fresh." When you buy it, it probably has been thawed for at least a few days. The prepackaged frozen fish skips the thawing-and-sitting-there-for-days step, so it will see the pan or the grill within hours of being thawed for the first time. Much fresher and much tastier. (I learned this from a sushi chef, who basically said that he'll only buy frozen fish unless he personally knows the fisherman that caught it and brought it to the wholesaler. He said that at least 85% of the "fresh" fish on the market was frozen and thawed at least once by the time it gets to him.) Posted by: Joe on November 22, 2006 at 2:15 PM | PERMALINKI think the key is to avoid commercial "baby foods" that taste nothing like the real thing. When my kid was a baby, I made his food from plainly cooked but fresh ingredients. It's not really that hard or time consuming. An adult serving whirled in the blender yields several baby servings - pack into small containers, freeze, and use withing a few weeks. Of course, he was contaminated by the diets of friends who lived on Spaghetti-Os and Pop Tarts, but as an adult he's come back to real food. And he's a darn good cook. Posted by: Buffalo Gal on November 22, 2006 at 5:56 PM | PERMALINKI thought okra wasn't even actual food until I finally had it fresh - man, it's a totally different thing! I used to tolerate peas that came in a can but at some point I couldn't stand them anymore unless they were fresh or frozen "green" peas. And I was lucky that my mother did not cook spinach to the point where it tasted like medicine, as seems to be a common problem in many households. (It also makes a nice salad leaf, I learned later.) Over-cooking seems to be what kills veggies for most kids. You can make almost anything taste good with the right preparation. Except, of course, okra that comes in a can. Posted by: Avedon on November 22, 2006 at 8:56 PM | PERMALINKLook, I just adore plain, unseasoned, steamed, overcooked broccoli. Bestest veggie taste in the world as far as I'm concerned. And I've liked it that way since I was first served it at the age of 2. Saute it lightly and it's hard and unappetizing. To me. So don't tell me that you have to cook foods this way or that so that "kids will eat it." Kids differ. The earliest commenters in this thread got it right. It's the taste buds. Kids who won't eat something are not playing some psychological game. They won't eat it because IT TASTES BAD!!! To them. The sooner parents realize this the better. Mine certainly never did. Yes, cooking it differently might help. But there's no one right answer here as to how to cook it. And get the answer wrong too many times and your children will (justifiably) no longer believe you. 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