November 27, 2006
TIC WATCH....Digby has a corollary to my post earlier today about the centrism tic. It's exactly right.
—Kevin Drum 10:48 PM
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My tic is to listen to well thought out explanations by intelligent folks who spend their career studying problems.
A lot of people were right about Iraq, including that anti-semite that posts here too much.
Posted by: B on November 27, 2006 at 11:07 PM | PERMALINK
Kind of ironic post, really, considering your own "centrist" posts today were giving me heartburn, Kev baby.
Posted by: craigie on November 27, 2006 at 11:08 PM | PERMALINK
Everybody seems to substitute ideological labels for thought. All of the labels are deceptive. Every popular position deserves at least some serious discussion.
The pundit class works very hard to label everything, there are issues that are never seriously discussed. Solutions are immediately tagged conservative, centrist or liberal. Solving problems seems to be secondary to staking out a claim along some phony liberal/conservative continuum.
Posted by: Ron Byers on November 27, 2006 at 11:14 PM | PERMALINK
Craigie: I only had one post about centrism today, didn't I?
In any case, there's nothing really ironic here. When centrism becomes a tic, it loses any meaning, but the same thing can happen to anti-centrism. I'd like to see the MSM abandon the former, but at the same time I'd hate to see the liberal blogosphere fall into the latter. Best to adopt some consistent principles but then stay open to policies of all types that fit broadly within those principles.
Posted by: Kevin Drum on November 27, 2006 at 11:17 PM | PERMALINK
Kevin
Don't be fooled. Much of the "anti-centrism" you read in the liberal blogosphere has to do with a general distrust of the professional air warriors who live within and rarely venture beyond the beltway.
Experience tells us that they think they can appeal to the supposed middle way in their efforts to convince a significant percentage of us to vote for them.
In short, for a lot of the pundit class centrist is just another way of saying triangulation.
Some of us are tired of being triangulated by "smart" people who are just trying to grab power for themselves.
Posted by: Ron Byers on November 27, 2006 at 11:39 PM | PERMALINK
Sorry. I meant to say "vote for them or their clients."
Posted by: Ron Byers on November 27, 2006 at 11:41 PM | PERMALINK
Centrists need to create their own damn party and stop trying to create win win situations. It's Old, It's tiresome, and it helps to cloak the crooks by pitting one party against the other.
Posted by: Zep Tepi on November 27, 2006 at 11:43 PM | PERMALINK
Trotsky wrote about Centrism;
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1934/1934-centrism.htm
Age old internationalist and nationalist mental masturbation and revolution.
Posted by: Zep Tepi on November 27, 2006 at 11:56 PM | PERMALINK
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Posted by: chfang on November 28, 2006 at 12:17 AM | PERMALINK
I gotta say, this chfang guy contributes a lot more to the thread than Charlie does.
Posted by: craigie on November 28, 2006 at 12:22 AM | PERMALINK
I gotta say, this chfang guy contributes a lot more to the thread than Charlie does.
Or Al =)
Posted by: Zep Tepi on November 28, 2006 at 12:52 AM | PERMALINK
In any case, there's nothing really ironic here. When centrism becomes a tic, it loses any meaning, but the same thing can happen to anti-centrism. I'd like to see the MSM abandon the former, but at the same time I'd hate to see the liberal blogosphere fall into the latter. Best to adopt some consistent principles but then stay open to policies of all types that fit broadly within those principles.
Posted by: Kevin Drum
As if the Centrists ever identify themselves as such. Has anyone ever heard of a Politician calling himself a Centrist?
Oh please, no more burritos!
Posted by: Zep Tepi on November 28, 2006 at 12:59 AM | PERMALINK
Kevin your beginning to sound like a Pasty Asperger.
I would rather not see the former coalesce into the latter given the opportunistic MSM and its profit driven ratings, yet the conservatives, being that of the latter and not the former aptly defined and obtusely arrogant some define as neo-conservatism, or Straussism. I would hate to see the centrists evolve into the former, or become the latter liberal blogosphere and therefore become neo-centrists and not the true centrism of the fourth, or the third, for that matter, international, which was somewhat halted by the second national of the Lenninist era.
Such convoluted crap.
Posted by: Zep Tepi on November 28, 2006 at 1:07 AM | PERMALINK
Ron Byers,
Oh, but many do get beyond the Beltway to mingle - It is named Martha's Vineyard - There, they can relax and discuss what really drives them; their current and future book deals or Maureen can regale them with her stories of Nancy's furrowed brows.
Posted by: thethirdPaul on November 28, 2006 at 1:13 AM | PERMALINK
Kevin Drum: Craigie: I only had one post about centrism today, didn't I?
Kind of you to let this go instead of 'splainin' it to him, craigie. I wouldn't have.
Posted by: shortstop on November 28, 2006 at 9:15 AM | PERMALINK
When centrism becomes a tic, it loses any meaning
If it isn't a tic, it isn't "centrism".
Posted by: cmdicely on November 28, 2006 at 12:07 PM | PERMALINK
Gore Vidal once said that the only concern Americans should have about policy is who is spending how much money on whatbut that sex scandals take the place of policy discussions. In that sense, when you stop to think about it, most ideological divides in the US have something to do with attitudes towards sex, albeit in heavily coded terms. With the fundies, not all that coded, either.
Not sure where centrists fit into that equation. Maybe they want to swing both ways, just in case.
Posted by: Kenji on November 28, 2006 at 12:11 PM | PERMALINK
Kind of you to let this go instead of 'splainin' it to him, craigie. I wouldn't have.
Sadly, I wasn't being kind, I was being lazy.
Posted by: craigie on November 28, 2006 at 3:04 PM | PERMALINK
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