It'll be the 25th Anniversary. By then we won't have those commemorative state quarters coming out all the time, so we'll need a nice 25 in our lives.

There's a Fawn Hall in the basement with the shredder joke in there somewhere...

Never.

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Or there's theory #3: too many Iran-Contra players are still playing serious roles in this town, from Ed Meese (Iraq Study Group) to Dick Cheney (Veep). And the papers don't want to get on their bad side.

RT is so rt! This is like the Stephen Colbert thing with his TiVo, erasing the admin's previous WWII analogies when things turned against them. They are expunging history as fast as they can, hoping that no one will remember their earlier misdeeds before they all croak, politically or otherwise.

For the last few months I have been wondering if anyone remembered Iran-Contra. I ended up on Amazon looking for any recent books on the scandal. I could find only one serious (non-wingnut) title: Lawrence Walsh's own memoir of the investigation. The book that was hailed as the "definitive" history, A Very Fine Line by Theodore Draper, apparently isn't even in print anymore.

I wonder if in the long run Iran-Contra is going to became another Teapot Dome scandal, where people know the name but understand nothing about what happened.

I watched the Ollie North hearings while in labor with my second child. Good times.

what, no mention of the continuing contributions of elliot abrams to the service of this country? i feel cheated as i'm sure he does as well. sigh. no, there will be no mention of this anniversary 'cause it will embarrass too many inside the beltway ...what will they discuss at their holiday parties: "those pesky, uncouth democrats and their annoying habits of investigation--when will they grow up"?

Sometimes I wonder whether the public will ever reach a controversy saturation point? Whether 3-4 decades of political shenanigans, graft, mudslinging, backstabbing, electoral lies and maneuvering, ill-advised wars and deaths and all the rest will just cause a massive throwing up of the hands and a collective "I don't want to hear or read about any of it any more!!". Hmmmm?

Those of us who care about our country's security remember the patriot Oliver North and the libeals' shameful attempt to bring him down.

It's hard to imagine anything more definitive than Kornbluh & Byrne's The Iran-Contra Scandal: The Declassified History, thankfully (and surprisingly) still in print.

Some things appear to be wrong on the surface, but once you understand that the end justifies the means (anyone remember Abu Graib?), one begins to understand that these ugly events are necessary to protect the freedoms that we hold dear in this country.

George H.W. Bush was deeply implicated in Iran Contra, but he stonewalled and was able to escape without being questioned and without turning over all requested documents. Then, as President, he pardoned those who might have testified against him.

John Schmitz, the aide who played a key role in the stonewall, came from a bizarre Southern California family of Republican Party sex criminals (his sister was Mary Kay LeTourneau, and his father was almost equally strange).

Google Walsh Report Chapter 28 for more.

Another reason why no one wants to bring up Iran-Contra is that it would screw up approval of the new SecDefense, Gates, who was a Iran-Contra player.

Besides, isn't it obvious by now that the media will not report any wrong doing by Republicans.

From the Report:

"George Bush served as vice president through the Reagan presidency from 1981 to 1989. In January 1989, he succeeded Reagan as President. It was in his capacity as President that Bush committed what will likely become his most memorable act in connection with Iran/contra. On December 24, 1992, twelve days before former Secretary of Defense Caspar W. Weinberger was to go to trial, Bush pardoned him.1 In issuing pardons to Weinberger and five other Iran/contra defendants, President Bush charged that Independent Counsel's prosecutions represented the ``criminalization of policy differences.''

Footnote 1: President Bush also pardoned former National Security Adviser Robert C. McFarlane, former Assistant Secretary of State Elliott Abrams, former CIA Central American Task Force Chief Alan D. Fiers, Jr., former CIA Deputy Director for Operations Clair E. George, and former CIA Counter-Terrorism Chief Duane R. Clarridge. The Weinberger pardon marked the first time a President ever pardoned someone in whose trial he might have been called as a witness, because the President was knowledgeable of factual events underlying the case.

The criminal investigation of Bush was regrettably incomplete.....(Page 1)

Had a final Bush interview occurred, the questioning regarding the non-production of Bush's diary would have focused on the decision of Bush and or Gray not to disclose the existence of the diary initially in April 1987, in response to OIC's document request, and to delay its ultimate production until December 1992. The questioning would have addressed Bush's familiarity with the 1987 OIC and congressional document requests, and his knowledge of the production of the Reagan diary in 1987. It would have sought an explanation of his previously described July 20, 1987, diary note condemning Shultz for producing Charles Hill's daily notes of Shultz's thoughts, discussions and activities.

It also would have covered Bush's diary entry of November 25, 1986, regarding a telephone call he had with North following his firing, and the substance of information he obtained from North and relayed to President Reagan regarding the fact that Israeli officials were extremely upset about the day's events. (Last Page)

I can't recall. I don't remember. I have no recollection...

Hope no one minds a plug for my book, which is also still in print. It's titled "Muffled Echoes: Oliver North and the Politics of Public Opinion," and is published by Columbia University Press.

The book is about how public opinion was misrepresented by the media, a dynamic that is still alive and well today. In the Iran-contra hearings, there were concerted efforts by conservative groups to create what looked like a groundswell of support for Ollie North, even as the majority of the public was largely or wholly critical of him. Dramatic, visually vivid activities -- like candlelight marches -- were planned before North's testimony and then treated as spontaneous responses to an arrogant Congress. These images and actions drove the media's storyline about public response to the hearings -- and they were highly inaccurate readings of public views.

By the way, recently I went back to look at some of the footage and found that one of the most egregious news stories was by Bernie Goldberg, Mr. Bias himself. Needless to say, the bias in that story was not the liberal bias Goldberg claims exists in the media.

And, to those who claim the scandal is too complicated to explain, I say they're wrong. I've been explaining it to freshmen for years and they get it.

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Instead of whining, maybe Timothy Noah should have written an anniversary story on Iran Contra. Himself.

AF:

I think that Iran-Contra was the moment when the media (and the country) turned. Oliver North became a martyr and media hero, and the Democrats and the press flinched. Katherine Graham seems to have renounced Watergate-type reporting in 1988 (the timeline is about right):

"We live in a dirty and dangerous world," Washington Post Company owner Katharine Graham said in a 1988 speech to CIA officials at the agency's headquarters in Langley, Virginia. "There are some things the general public does not need to know and shouldn't." ( http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/2068/ )

Here's a clickable link

The key aide protecting George H W Bush was John Schmitz, son of the bizarre John Bircher Republican of the same name, and brother of Mary Kay LeTourneau.

Emerson is right. We will celebrate the anniversary of the North hearings. The lesson learned will be that Congress shouldn't investigate great American heroes who were proven innocent when their cases got thrown out on technicalities. Also, we should not negotiate with terrorists, just like Great Hero Reagan said. We will also learn that Reagan's drop in popularity was due to the liberals in the media constantly attacking him and focusing on the negative.

Are you being funny, Reino? Reagan negotiated with the Iranian hostage-takers and sold them weapons. The release of the hostages during the Reagan inauguration ceremony was very fishy indeed, and his later dealing with the hostage-takers was not terribly surprising, since he was already dealing with the Iranians during the election campaign before the hostages had been released. If the hostages had been released in October, Carter might well have been re-elected.

I wish it were true that Reagan declined in popularity because the media told the truth about him, but his popularity didn't decline much and a lot of the truth just faded away.

For a very interesting review of Iran-Contra, I suggest David Corn's "Iran-Contra Re-hab" over at The Nation. Came up a couple of days ago.

I-C, yes, the times of "I was out of the loop" and "Am I a potted plant?".

Also, the prime example of why Senators should leave investigating, decisions about granting immunity and especially direct and cross examination of witnesses to expert currently practicing trial lawyers. The reason that North is still drawing his pension, as well as Poindexter, is that there were too many Senators who said, "But, gee, I have a law degree". They didn't even know where the court house was, let alone how to find one's way around the court room. By not taking the perps depositions and then granting them immunity prior to their testimonies, nothing could be used against them in their felony trials. So, they walked.

The egos of too many Senators destroyed the case.

I'm sitting here with two jumbo boxes of brown sugar and cinnamon pop tarts munching away at my steady diet of pop tarts and coffee. You're ruining my breakfast, calling it "filler". Thanks a lot.

With Iran Contra the media and opinion makers discovered a little cancer in the body of the American political system and chose to ignore and pretend it wasn't worth treating.

Bush and the Iraq folly is the metastasis of Iran Contra.

Who will be brave enough to admit their error and begin acting like a real doctor instead of of quack? Who knows? So far only the jokers of the Republic are allowed to tell the truth on TV. But an army is growing in the boonies and fly over country. And it is a democratic army.

Yes, Emerson, I am being funny. However, Reagan repeatedly said that we should never negotiate with terrorists, and the media likes to claim that he was popular throughout his Presidency even though there is good evidence that he was not.

My serious point is that Iran-Contra, when it is recalled on the anniversary of the North hearings, likely will be turned on its head.

I'm still waiting to find out what the clinical diagnosis was when Oliver North was found wandering naked through a Washington suburb, brandishing a .45 caliber handgun in 1974. How a man with such severe mental pathology, could be given an office in the basement of the White House, is a national security breach of the highest order!

In response to anonymous’s question about books on the Iran-Contra scandal, one very hard-hitting book is called Out of Control by Leslie Cockburn, that details Oliver North’s mental illness, as well as the illegal diversion of arms (theft of taxpayer-owned property) and use of the funds to arm the terrorist organization, the Contras, who killed hundreds of innocent people. I also really like Robert Parry’s Lost History, which provides extremely well-researched and documented evidence of North’s involvement in funding the Contra operation by “backloading” cocaine shipments into the United States in CIA planes that transported arms to Nicaragua. This website also has a wealth of information about North’s complicity in drug-running.

Reino’s comment that Oliver North is some kind of “hero” is delusional in the extreme, as North is clearly a psychopathic, drug-running traitor who should have been executed for illegally selling arms to an enemy of the United States, which only five years prior had held Americans hostage – Iran!

John Emerson wrote:
"I think that Iran-Contra was the moment when the media (and the country) turned. Oliver North became a martyr and media hero, and the Democrats and the press flinched. Katherine Graham seems to have renounced Watergate-type reporting in 1988."

It's true that North became a media hero. But my book (and also another book, the excellent "Becoming Citizens in the Age of Television: How Americans Challenged the Media and Siezed Political Initiative During the Iran-Contra Debate) establish that most Americans did not think North was a hero. He wasn't during the hearings and he wasn't after. I show this via polls and interviews and Thelen does a fascinating examination of mail to Members of Congress. I also analyze how Time, Newsweek, the networks showed/wrote stories saying North was seen as a hero even as their polls contradicted this narrative.

Sidelight: If Ollie was such a big hero, how come he couldn't win a Senate seat - in Virginia - during the Republican sweep of 1994?

Hear hear, we got to move.

I hate it when people complain about "the press." Anybody with a press is "the press." In the Internet age, this means anyone who can type. To paraphrase Ghandi: Be the change, don't whine about it. If someone wants a story about the Iran-Contras, they should try taking a break between complaints about lazy journalists, and write it themselves.

Speaking of anniversaries ... anybody else notice the coming-and-going of November 22nd? Oh, that's right, JFK was a Democrat. Now I get it.

on a related topic, the Democrats propose to postpone strengthening House oversight of intelligence:
It was a solemn pledge, repeated by Democratic leaders and candidates over and over: If elected to the majority in Congress, Democrats would implement all of the recommendations of the bipartisan commission that examined the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

But with control of Congress now secured, Democratic leaders have decided for now against implementing the one measure that would affect them most directly: a wholesale reorganization of Congress to improve oversight and funding of the nation's intelligence agencies. Instead, Democratic leaders may create a panel to look at the issue and produce recommendations, according to congressional aides and lawmakers.

Enthusiastic Democrats, start preparing now for your onrushing disappointments. Murtha/Hoyer and Harman/Hastings were just the precursors.

Whether 3-4 decades of political shenanigans, graft, mudslinging, backstabbing, electoral lies and maneuvering, ill-advised wars and deaths and all the rest will just cause a massive throwing up of the hands and a collective "I don't want to hear or read about any of it any more!!".

Sheesh, you make it sound like 1850 and 1910 all over again.

When I heard Oliver North was in Nicaragua campaigning against Ortega, I could not believe he was able to leave the country alive. I was very thankful I was not there, because I might have become a vigilante. War is a terrible thing, making people think about revenge and justice, which, if acted upon, only makes things worse. War also makes one feel impotent to change national policy through debate and demonstrations of crimes committed, seeming to leave only violent acts as a means to stop the carnage done in one's name and supposed interest. That feeling must be stifled and attempts to stop war crimes with non-violent civil disobedience and legal justice for the perpetrators pursued.

Matthew, I think a critical difference between 1850 or 1910 and now is the instant transmission of vast amounts of information to nearly every household in the nation. My collective "throwing up of the hands" is something much more likely now than public perceptions and knowledge may have led to 100-150 years ago.

Matthew R Marler,

Oh, that was soooo yesterday's news - In fact, if you peruse the Commissions Omissions thread two down, you will find that thread a more appropiate venue. Unless, you wish to discuss USC football.

I finally got around to reading Walsh's book in 04, ironically shortly before Reagan's death. I bought it at Border's which has an exchange for out-of-print books. I thought it was pretty good except he made excuses for Reagan. One of the appalling aspects of the investigation ... Walsh did not talk to him until 92, by then his Alzheimer's was evident and he barely remembered being President.

Anyway, I was again appalled during the funeral when everyone including the MSM whitewashed his presidency. Then during the Republican convention, MSNBC was broadcasting from Herald Square. Over the week Scarborough repeatedly blasted Walsh for indicting Weinberger so close to the election. Each time he did I wanted to deliver the book to him, I live 8 miles away in NJ, I still wish I had.

Lots of people want to rewrite history. Reagan single-handedly crushed the Soviet Union, right? Recently Imus said that it had been a good idea to sell Iran old weapons. Really.

The reality-based community has to push back. Things are so mucked up that Gates seems like a reasonable choice. Aaaarrrgh.

AF, I basically agree with you. It may be that the public opinion split was like today (30% hard core Republicans supporting North). When the media calls an unpopular president popular, he doesn't become significantly more popular (though there are plenty of bandwagoners), but the people who don't like him become discouraged and passive.

The significant thing was a change in media treatement, which began early in the Reagan years -- when George Will, a political operative, was hired for the Post, for example, and when various people there and elsewhere started to take "thoughtful" (non-confontational) approaches to Reagan.

The jellification of the media was a 25-year process, at least. I think Graham's 1988 speech was a big turning point.

Horatio, that's bullshit. Anyone can write something. "The media" aren't the content producers, they're the ones controlling the distribution channels.

"Reagan negotiated with the Iranian hostage-takers and sold them weapons. The release of the hostages during the Reagan inauguration ceremony was very fishy indeed,...."
_____________________

Is this the same Iranian government we are supposed to consult with regarding Iraq? What can we give them as an incentive for them helping us out of our fix?

Oliver North demolished the Iran Contra scandal with his public testimony before a Congressional committtee. True believeers still hang on to the the impeachment wish, but the general public doesn't.

The Nixon and Clinton scandals involved (alleged) breaking the law for selfish ends. OTOH Iran-Contra involved breaking the law in an attampt to serve the nation. That's part of the reason that this scandal never resonated like the other two.

Yes, the sudden release of hostages on Coronation Day of Sir Ronny was indeed fishy - No, the Iranians were Not afraid of his wrath.

However, the exchange of weapons for hostages occurred much later in Ronny's Reign. Hezbollah had taken hostages in Lebanon - The plan by Michael Ledeen was to have Isreal sell TOW missiles to Iran, thus Iran would influence the Hezbollah to release hostages - Only Rev Weir was released. The later plan was for the US to directly sell 1,000 TOWs to Iran. The money from this sale was diverted to the Contras. Reagan denied, at first, that we had negotiated for any hostage release. However, late in his term of office, he reversed and said that we had. He also said that GWHB, of the "I was out of the loop" fame, also knew of the arrangement.

Today, Negroponte, Elliot Abrams, Ledeen, Robert Gates, and others are active in the administration, or are close supporters of the war in Iraq. Even, the notorious Iranian arms dealer, who was instrumental in the sales, is involved with our dealings with Iran.

The more times change, the less they change.

Ex-liberal is partly correct -- no one cares about Iran-Contra except people who understand what happened. Not him.

Sort of like the 9/11 investigation, Walsh's investigation was stonewalled and sabotaged. A failure of democracy.

Iran-Contra involved breaking the law in an attampt to serve the nation

US government officials who breaking the law to serve the nation of Iran should be held accountable.

Oh, you thought they were attempting to serve the United States by killing lots of Nicaraguan peasants in order to install another puppet dictator. (the rest of comment deleted)

Hostile: Oh, you thought they were attempting to serve the United States by killing lots of Nicaraguan peasants in order to install another puppet dictator.

I thought they were attempting to serve the US by installing a democracy. By the way, they succeeded.

Iran-Contra involved breaking the law in an attampt to serve the nation.

Objection: Assertion not in evidence.

Oh, hell, let's face it: It's just more contrafactual (no pun intended) bullshit from "ex-liberal." We're familiar with the brand.

It's nice to see "ex-liberal" show his/her/its true colors by defending the Executive Branch's illegal malfeasance, though.

I recall a Billmon post from the August war in Lebanon. Hezbolla knocked out dozens of Israeli tanks with TOW missiles. They got these from Iraq and Iraq got them during Iran/Contra. Wikipedia says that TOW missiles can last for years with no upkeep....

Iran! THey got them from IraN... sorry!

Iran! THey got them from IraN... sorry!

Nicaragua was already a functioning democracy before Reagan and his gang started killing Nicaraguan peasants.

Nicaragua was already a functioning democracy before Reagan and his gang started killing Nicaraguan peasants.

Yes, but they had the temerity to elect the wrong people.

ex-liberal,
You got that bit wrong.
No democracy was "installed".
An election was held, declared sketchy by independent observers, and Violeta Chamorro de Barrios(I think I got that right) was declared the winner. Sandinistas(who didn't do all the counting) accepted her as President rather than continue the vicious guerilla war.

A good account of life in Nicaragua during the period, written by a white guy liberal professor.
Read the reviews, too. Check local university libraries, as price is exorbitant.

http://www.amazon.com/Best-What-Are-Reflections-Nicaraguan/dp/0870239848/sr=8-11/qid=1164915792/ref=sr_1_11/104-7024007-3035925?ie=UTF8&s=books

John Emerson,

Well, the Media happens not to be in the people-educating, anniversary-day reminding, watchers-of-the-watchers business. They are in the making money business. I just get fed up with people who call on the media to "do their jobs" as if this entails ANYTHING other than making gobs of money. And this will never change. So why complain about it? Just DIY.

anony wrote:

"I recall a Billmon post from the August war in Lebanon. Hezbolla knocked out dozens of Israeli tanks with TOW missiles. They got these from Iraq [Iran] and Iraq [Iran] got them during Iran/Contra."
______________

Hezbollah was using the latest in RPG technology, most probably the new Kornet RPGs. They were not using US-made TOWs, but could have been using the Iranian-made equivalent, the Toophan.

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