Prager and these other idiots are quite serious when they see the Bible being "dethroned." In their childishly binary worldview, less than 100% acceptance represents a total loss. Thus, questioning the efficacy of U.S. actions in Iraq becomes "aiding the terrorists," wishing someone happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas is a direct promotion of Satanism, and taking the oath of office on a copy of the Koran is a defilement of the Bible.

They really are this stupid.

Fuck Prager.

I always find it strange how badly some people want to inject the Bible into government, with absolutely no concern for government's corrupting influence on religion. Do we really want to live in a Byzantine theocracy, where ultimately religious doctrine is set based on the political neccesities of the state? Where goverment panels settle theological disputes and enforce them through arms? Because when religion and government mix, religion ALWAYS loses.

Jonathan "The Head Heeb" Edelstein has a very interesting piece about using books other than the Christian Bible when taking oaths. Suffice to say that there's a centuries-long tradition of allowing non-Christians to use alternative books when swearing oaths.

My oldest son debated Prager on his talk show a couple of years back. At one point Prager asked what religion my son had been raised in; none, he replied. Prager then had the audacity to tell him that he'd had no proper moral grounding. Given the latest, I wonder what he'd have said if my son had told him he'd been raised a Muslim.

Does the person believe in the divinity and authority of the Five Books of Moses, the first five books of the Bible, known as the Torah? ("Divinity" does not necessarily mean "literalism.")

It's worth noting for Prager and his poorly informed ilk that Muslims, like Jews and Christians, very much believe in the divinity of the Torah (at least according to what it says here and here). For that matter, they also believe in the divinity of Psalms and the Gospels.

I'm not sure, but wasn't the whole point of establishing this republic of ours the rejection of thrones - regardless of whether these were occupied by men or holy books? If Prager wants to argue that American traditions are under threat, I humbly suggest he avoid the use of metaphors like "throne", "dethroned", etc. As his logic is bankrupt, he should better damn well make sure his rhetoric makes at least a modicum of sense.

Prager's religious intolerance is mind-boggling but he hasn't noticed.

Here's another Christianist perspective: I was taught by my family (Christian fundie denomination) to never swear on the Bible as it was considered disrespectful and blasphemy. I left that teaching long, long ago, but old habits die hard: When I was a witness in a civil court case, upon being sworn in to tell the truth, I raised my right hand and placed my left hand on my heart. No one gave me grief for my religious expression at the time but that was before the Religious Right had hijacked the political discourse in our country.

"Where does the Bush gang find these clowns?"

Brooklyn, via California.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Prager

Below is what a thoughtful republican coworker sent me over business email right before Christmas. It is a bit long, but the point about the thought processes of some Republicans post-2006 elections makes itself clear.

Subject: New Direction??

The Democratic-controlled Congress's promise for "A New Direction For America" ..........

1. The stock market is at a new all-time high and America's 401K's are back.
A new direction from there means, what?

2. Unemployment is at 25 year lows.
A new direction from there means, what?

3. Oil prices are plummeting.
A new direction from there means, what?

4. Taxes are at 20 year lows.
A new direction from there means, what?

5. Federal tax revenues are at all-time highs.
A new direction from there means, what?

6. The Federal deficit is down almost 50%, just as predicted over last year.
A new direction from there means. what?

7. Home valuations are up 200% over the past 3.5 years.
A new direction from there means, what?

8. Inflation is in check, hovering at 20 year lows.
A new direction from there means, what?

9. Not a single terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11/01.
A new direction from there means, what?

10. Osama bin Laden is living under a rock in a dark cave
A new direction from there means, what?

11. Several major terrorist attacks already thwarted by US and British Intel, including the recent planned attack involving 10 Jumbo Jets being exploded in mid-air over major US cities in order to celebrate the anniversary of the 9/11/01 attacks.
A new direction from there means, what?

12. Just as President Bush foretold us on a number of occasions, Iraq was to be made "ground zero" for the war on terrorism -- and just as President Bush said they would, terrorist cells from all over the region are arriving from the shadows of their hiding places and flooding into Iraq in order to get their faces blown off by US Marines rather than boarding planes and heading to the United States to wage war on us here.
A new direction from there means, what?

Now let me see, do I have this right? I can expect:

The economy to go South

Illegals to go North

Taxes to go Up

Employment to go Down

Terrorism to come In

Tax breaks to go Out

Social Security to go Away

Health Care to go the same way gas prices have gone

But what the heck!

I can gain comfort by knowing that Nancy P, Hillory C, John K, Edward K, Howard D, Harry R and Obama have worked hard to create:
A Comprehensive National Security Plan, Health Care Plan, Immigration Reform Plan, Gay Rights Plan,Same Sex Marriage Plan, Abortion On Demand Plan, Tolerance of Everyone and Everything Plan, How to Return all Troops to the U.S. in The Next Six Months (Surrender) Plan, A Get Tough Plan, adapted from the French Plan by the same name and a How Everyone Can Become as Wealthy as We Are Plan.

I forgot the No More Katrina Storm/how to drive busses Plan.

Now I know why I "feel good" after the elections. I am going to be able to sleep so much better at nights knowing these dedicated politicians are thinking of me and my welfare.

Ah Kevin,

Your animosity to the bible proves Prager's point.

Besides, the point of using the bible isn't that the person believes in it, it's that the book has the power to send them to hell if they break their oath. A muslim swearing on the Koran is as meaningless as a child swearing on "The Night Before Christmas".

One thing we don't hear much is how the people of Ellison's district in Minnesota ignored the brutal attacks on his Muslim heritage, ignored the fact that Ellison is African-American, and elected him to serve in the US House.

If the voters don't care, why does Prager care? Ultimately, isn't Prager denigrating the voters, who seemed to be saying that we have a separation between Church and State and that no, this is America, and regardless of a person's religion, they should be given a chance to serve.

What is it about democracy that these religious nuts hate? The fact that when people do something enlightened and thoughtful that it marginalizes the fear and the hate and the intimidation they use as their primary tool of gaining and consolidating power?

In his own words:

Asked by Mr. Blitzer what he thought of the reaction to his election, and to his swearing-in preference, Mr. Ellison said:

Well, Wolf, I’m glad you made that distinction because when I’m officially sworn in, I will do it the same, exact way as every Congressperson-elect who is sworn in. We will all stand up and, in unison, lift our hand and swear to uphold that Constitution.

And then later, in a private ceremony, of course, I’ll put my hand on a book that is the basis of my faith, which is Islam. And I think that this is a beauty. This is a wonderful thing for our country, because Jewish members will put their hands on the Torah, Mormon members will
put their hand on the Book of Mormon, Catholic members will put their hand on the book of their choice. And members who don’t want to put their hand on any book are also fully free to do that. That’s the American way.

[I'd really like to hear Prager's thoughts on Mormon members of Congress putting their hands on the book of Mormon.]

But I think that we need to not focus on what religious text any Congress member might want to use. Let’s focus on the text that binds us together. That’s the Constitution. That’s a great document, and I’m looking forward very much to raising my hand and swear to uphold that Constitution.

Surely Prager doesn't believe that the theocrats whose cause Prager is advancing aren't going to exactly install some conservative form of Judaism as the state religion when they finally shit-can the American experiment with a secular state.

What's the Yiddish for 'useful idiot'?

If one side's desire to repudiate another side's religious viewpoint is all it takes to constitute a "civil war," why do the wingnuts keep arguing that what's happening in Iraq is not a civil war? I'm confused.

Hey, there's an alternative. Ever notice that "testimony" and "testes" seem related? For good reason. Many centuries ago, witnesses had to raise one hand and put the other on their, er, "equipment" in order to swear an oath. Needless to say, women couldn't give sworn testimony.

> ... it also explains the hatred that much of the Left has for Jewish, Protestant, Catholic and Mormon Bible-believers > ... it also explains the hatred that much of the Left has for Jewish, Protestant, Catholic and Mormon Bible-believers

Never mind that Jewish portion of that sub-group are generally found on "the Left"--that's not even the stupidest portion of Prager's agrument.

Prager doesn't seem to comprehend that "bible believers" listed don't believe in precisely the same Bible.

Jews don't believe in the New Testament.

Catholics and Protestants don't believe in the same New Testament.

None of the above believe in the Book of Mormon.

People who advocate injecting religious texts into the public sphere never seem to think it through, that their pet religious text--whether it be their holy book, or their list of Commandments--is not shared or accepted by everyone who might call themselves "religious." One can be devoutly religious and still adamantly oppose Prager and his notions.

Besides, the point of using the bible isn't that the person believes in it, it's that the book has the power to send them to hell if they break their oath. A muslim swearing on the Koran is as meaningless as a child swearing on "The Night Before Christmas".

Jews don't subscribe to the Christian notion of Hell. so, by your logic, a Jew swearing on the Torah/O.T. is meaningless, too. you'd better tell Prager, he seems to think Jews swearing on the OT is meaningfull.

Prager is a Jew, b.t.w..

Too bad, fat old grump.

If things were so good, I doubt very much that Bush would be sitting at 33% in the approval ratings and would be hamstrung by the war in Iraq.

And having Osama bin Laden free and on the loose (he is likely not living in a cave but living very comfortably in a series of safe houses in Pakistan) is not something one should go around citing as proof Bush is doing a good job.

By the way, how is the housing market right now?

Morons like Prager who chirp about the moral "authority" of the first five books of the Bible (i.e. the Pentaeuch), clearly haven't bothered to read them. If they had, and tried to live by them, they would not eat shellfish, or wear clothing made of two different types of cloth and keep their beards trimmed below the jawline (its all in Leviticus). We would also stone women to death who commit adultery, keep slaves and beat those slaves to death who are disobedient to their masters (its in Deuteronomy).

As far as the "divinity" of the authorship of the Pentateuch, maybe Mr. Prager can explain why the first chapter of Genesis has the animals created before the man and the second chapter has man first? Or why Adam and Eve are created at the same time in cha
pter one, but Eve is created out of Adam's rib in chapter 2? (HINT: Its because they were written by different people at different times).

Prager clearly knows nothing about the Bible - or he wouldn't bear false witness against Keith Ellison (i.e. the Ninth Commandment).

We would also stone women to death who commit adultery, keep slaves and beat those slaves to death who are disobedient to their masters

Sounds a bit like the Sharia law we helped bring to the Iraqi people! Yay!

Oh, wait...

So its ok to swear on the Book of Mormon but not the Koran?

Just as President Bush foretold us on a number of occasions, Iraq was to be made "ground zero" for the war on terrorism -- and just as President Bush said they would, terrorist cells from all over the region are arriving from the shadows of their hiding places and flooding into Iraq in order to get their faces blown off by US Marines rather than boarding planes and heading to the United States to wage war on us here.

Wow--I had no idea the wingnuts were cornering the market on insanity. There are so many things wrong with this kind of thinking that I doubt it's worth responding to, but to point out that less than 5% of the attacks in Iraq are being conducted by foreign fighters and that that number is actually decreasing because Sunni and Shia militias are cornering the market on wholesale slaughter and are doing a better job of killing foreign fighters than we are would probably cause your little bullet head to pop clean off from the shock of such a realization.

Oh, no. Sorry! I forgot. It's all the liberal media's fault. Whoops.

"So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.' - Bertrand Russell.

can I swear on my Iliad?

Davis X asked what was the Yiddish term for useful idiot. I have a better one than that, and one the Goyim don't know...Geshvollen(gesh-VAL-len) Swollen, puffed up; applied to person with haughty pride.

Confused in Portland; not versed in legal traditions;

However, didn't Shrub's swearing in on "My Pet Goat" set a precedent?

Slithy Tove is a bitchin' handle.

As a rule, when you fall in a ditch, you should stop digging, but Prager couldn't help himself.

Couldn't help himself? Hell, I bet he sprained something getting back to the keyboard as fast as possible. Broad spectrum criticism in the media is like catnip to these fools. They love it. They live for it. It serves as validation for their perceptions of perpetual victimhood. When you think of the history of Christianity, what's the first thing that pops into your mind? The victimization of the early Christians by the Romans. Lions and Christians in the Colosseum. Jesus nailed to a tree. It defines them, in a way that they can never let loose of. It also serves as a reminder to them of how they're supposed to act, if they're ever in control...again...

>>it's that the book has the power to send them to hell if they break their oath.

In that case the Current Occupant should have vanished in a puff of smoke at his searing in ceremony.

Poof!

My Pet Goat was not a swearing-in book; it was a birthday gift from Laura. Sports Illustrated is the preferred publication for testimony. Try to keep up, Paolo caro.

PR, I think Fat Old Grump was quoting an e-mail he got, not endorsing it.

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum board can't remove Prager, since he's a Bush appointee, but they did pass a resolution condemning his bigoted remarks:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/22/us/politics/22koran.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Oops.

'swearing' not 'searing' - although that would have been appropriate if a big bolt of lightening had struck him.

Kazot!

7. Home valuations are up 200% over the past 3.5 years.
A new direction from there means, what?

Maybe I'll be able to afford a house someday. You can run an economy off a housing bubble for only a couple years, and at the end you're screwed. Allowing home prices to skyrocket out of proportion to market value was really irresponsible. Inventory has skyrocketed, the construction sector is now in decline, and house prices are like 400% out of whack because of it. We have effectively separated the middle class into a landed gentry and a second tier of renters.

Everyone knows your house is overpriced anyway. Buyers and sellers are just waiting each other out right now; there is hardly any selling activity. I expect the natural playing out of the housing market over the next few years to naturally result in vilification of Democrats.

Of course, when those ARMs reset, that wonderful Republican bankruptcy reform law will really start to piss people off. I can't believe people are talking about overinflated house prices like that's a good thing.

In Britain this debate began in the 1840’s when Baron Lionel de Rothschild was elected to Parliament and refused to swear an oath saying “on the true faith of a Christian�. In that country religious qualification for public office was removed entirely in 1890.

Of course the United States is the original secular nation. Its foundation began the secular era where religious qualification was not required for public office. Ever since the founding of the United States pietistic Protestants have tried to change this in law and in fact. It is their perennial obsession and always gets votes in the overrepresented Calvinistic hinterlands. A generation ago they would not have bothered to include Catholics, Jews, or Mormons in their rhetorical arguments. Now they try to seem more ecumenical then they really are. The term “Bible-believers� is decidedly non-Jewish and is strange, even heretical, to the Catholic ear.

For the professionals in the right-wing talk business this is just stock stuff off the shelf. Any idiot can mouth this kind of retrograde hate-speech. It does not have to be logically coherent or consistent with good government or even religious teaching. It just plays on ugly prejudice. It guarantees an audience and should be understood in the context of circus entertainment.

Or perhaps Praeger is more aptly described as Kosher Chozzer Fisl, (ko-sher kha-zer fiz’l) , literally translated it means “Kosher Pig’s Feet� We use this term to describe someone who fancies themselves as better than others, more in the know,“holier than thou.�

If Bill O'Reilly were Jewish, this term would be as common as putz.

Dennis Prager...giving the yahoos what they want.

a big bolt of lightening

Would that be a large shot of peroxide?

Honey, forgive me. I couldn't resist.

PR, I think Fat Old Grump was quoting an e-mail he got, not endorsing it.

You're right - sorry, fat old grump--I'm shellshocked by all the wingnuttery and I need to take a few moments to stop hyperventilating.

When you're getting hit with this stuff on a daily basis, it's hard to figure out what is cited as a belief and what is cited to be mocked. The holidays and all have left me a little off-kilter. We should all have the option to take this week off, but here I sit at work up to my eyeballs in the particulars of PeopleSoft Financials and I can't think clearly...

I can't believe people are talking about overinflated house prices like that's a good thing.
Posted by: MillionthMonkey

For the sake of your sanity, please just ignore the Moral Pygmy - PA's Banality of Evil incarnate - with the 3 car garage.

Honey, forgive me. I couldn't resist.
Posted by: shortstop

I had to have an exorcism for my keyboard and can't do a thing with it.

My (Typo) world and welcome to it.

Jews don't subscribe to the Christian notion of Hell.

OMG, I'm Jewish! Explains why I have so many Jewish friends.

So tukhes oyfn tisch and let's kick Prager in his tokhes. Would you agree, GC?

As a rule, when you fall in a ditch, you should stop digging, but Prager couldn't help himself.

I've always heard "when you find yourself in a ditch, you should stop digging", which properly carries the implication that you dug yourself into the ditch in the first place. "When yoou fall in a ditch, you should stop digging" doesn't make any sense.

Though equating supporting the choice to use the Quran with opposition to the Bible with hatred of Jewish and Christian believers motivated by secularism is, well, pretty amazing in any event.

What do I believe? As an American I believe in generosity, in liberty, in the rights of man. These are social and political faiths that are part of me, as they are, I suppose, part of all of us. Such beliefs are easy to express. But part of me too is my relation to all life, my religion. And this is not so easy to talk about. Religious experience is highly intimate and, for me, ready words are not at hand. --Adlai Stevenson

I immediately distrust anyone who can wax on about their faith with facility. I always wonder who they are trying to convince - me, or themselves?

So, if we Finally, Finally have a woman elected to the Presidency, can she be "seared" in on "Joy of Cooking"?

Pros like Dennis Prager search for months for a hit scandal. Ann Coulter must model her career on Madonna’s. She just tries to be politically sacrilegious. Her song and dance is composed of strategically crafted attacks on minorities and the weak. O’Reilly is happy to have invented, or seen the potential in, the War on Christmas. I imagine there is a great deal of competition in the hate business these days. But it is a business that critics, like the critics of Madonna's antics, help make lucrative.

So, if we Finally, Finally have a woman elected to the Presidency, can she be "seared" in on "Joy of Cooking"?
Posted by: stupid git

Et tu, Git?

Laughing.

Welcome to the tribe A-13. I'll show you the secret handshake at recess.

I love exorcisms! What are you serving afterward? I will find a way to cadge some of your great cooking. I will.

As a rule, when you fall in a ditch, you should stop digging

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging is perhaps a better way to phrase it.

When you find yourself in a ditch, you merely climb out of the ditch OR you could theoretically keep digging the ditch until you came to a point where it was possible to level out and arrive at a point of destination. Ditches are more horizontal and do run parallel to roads, after all.

God, was that nitpicky or what?

"That a belief or lack of belief in the divinity of a book dating back over 2,500 years is at the center of the Culture War in America and between religious America and secular Europe is almost unbelievable"

Umm.... the book is 1500 years old. While some stories are much older than 2500 years, a lot of them were left out as too inconvenient for the message they wanted to send in the digest version. And what is so hard about believing in the divinity of book put together by the machivellian court of a Roman emperor forced to publically switch faith at the end of his life?

If I get elected to Congress can I swear on Aleister Crowley's The Book Of The Law?

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

"Love is the law, love under will"

I love exorcisms! What are you serving afterward? I will find a way to cadge some of your great cooking. I will.
Posted by: shortstop

Have some hot-damn seafood gumbo in the fridge.

Step right up.

'I do not believe in God. I believe in cashmere.' - Fran Lebowitz

The Divinity of a Book?!

The guy's a fucking idolater, if nothing else.

Swearing on the Constitution would make a lot more sense in just about every venue.

In my opinion the thing Prager is really lamenting about is the fact that it is not America's top priority as a nation and a people to get his dead ass into heaven.

The bible itself is not the center of the "culture war". The bible is being used as bait and switch.

At the center of the fabled "culture war" is a belief by people like Prager, O'Reilly, Robertson, Falwell, Goode and many of the christian right that 300 million Americans and the World should be forced to get their dead asses into heaven.

Prager just needs to understand, plainly and clearly that whether his dead ass winds up in heaven or hell is NOT America's priority. It never has been. It never will be.

Perhaps Shrub's problems began when, as swearing on the Constitution and/or bible, Tourette's Syndrome set in.

Extradite Rumsfeld wrote: "The Divinity of a Book?! The guy's a fucking idolater, if nothing else."

I am reminded of the story of a Zen monk who responded to one of his students who was ostentatiously quoting the Buddhist scriptures by saying, "What use are the holy scriptures! Bring them here and I will wipe my ass with them!"

Goode and Prager have become cultists of Mark Steyn - The Islamos are a'coming around the mountain for them.

PR, so what should Prager do, as he has fallen into his own litter box?

Where does the Bush gang find these clowns?

They are the result of failed experiments on stem cells. Stem cell research must be stopped!

We have effectively separated the middle class into a landed gentry and a second tier of renters.
Posted by: MillionthMonkey on December 27, 2006 at 11:27 AM | PERMALINK

It's called divide and conquer.

The opposite of what Prager is doing; trying to build a coalition of different religious sects - who, historically, have slit eachother's throats.

Umm.... the book is 1500 years old. While some stories are much older than 2500 years, a lot of them were left out as too inconvenient for the message they wanted to send in the digest version.

His efforts to include Jews in the hated group makes it pretty clear that he is probablyl referring to the age of the oldest written components in the Bible, and using an inclusive reference (over 2,500 years) expansive enough to include both the historically accepted likely date the stories were first written down, during the Babylonian exile that occurred in the 500s BC, and the much earlier date they are traditionally held to have been written.

"so what should Prager do, as he has fallen into his own litter box?"

Keep digging. My cat generally digs extensively to alert me to the fact that her box is in need of cleaning. If I don't respond promptly and she is satisfied of her own due diligence she just craps in front of it. I believe Prager has already gone through a couple of these cycles.

The litter box is also a good place to hide if a scary plumber or muslim enters the house.

Conservatives are descended from the people Left Behind by the British and they've been trying to ruin the American Republic ever since.

Prager is just another who took up political ranting in an effort to avoid the hard physical labor for which he is better qualified.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. --Franklin D. Roosevelt

Catholics and Protestants don't believe in the same New Testament.

While there are translation differences in versions of the New Testament used by some Protestants and those used by Catholics, the significant differences in accepted source materials and which books are actually part of the Bible are in the Old, not New, testament, where certain Protestant groups accept as canonical a narrow set of books that the Orthodox, the Catholics and other Protestants accept as canon.

B, you crack me up.

MsNThrope: The City of New Orleans leaves Chicago at 4:00. I'll be on it.

Thanks, Shortstop. Now I have Arlo stuck in my head. (Who needs an ipod? Live 40+ years.)

(Who needs an ipod? Live 40+ years.)

Oh, so you admit you practice age-ism and age-related discrimination! Well!

It would probably be full of old fart music anyway. After K-Tel went out of business, you old farts are still waiting for your year-end roundup of the hits, circa 1988.

I forgot about the song. I thought the train had stopped running, but evidently they got it back up a few months after Katrina.

Don't make me reveal your age here, Pale Rider. I'll do it. Oh, yes, I'll do it.*

*not really

Don't make me reveal your age here, Pale Rider. I'll do it. Oh, yes, I'll do it.*

I'm not forty! Bwa ha ha ha ha!

True story: when I lived in the Western suburbs of Minneapolis, I actually interviewed for a position with K-Tel, back when they were flying gracefully into the toilet. Turned them down after seeing the dismal and chaotic nightmare their corporate offices were in. As I recall, they were across the road or in the same complex as the company that made Rollerblades and they gave out huge bonuses one year that made the National news.

Christmas bonuses--a thing of the past? Do you old farts remember Christmas bonuses? Or are you still trying to delicately thread the tape from your 8track into the data port of that iPod you got on Monday morning?

The thing to keep hammering home, of course, is that members of congress are not sworn in on any book at all -- Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Druid. They simply raise their hand and take the oath en masse. So this whole stupid conbtroversy is about the FAKE swearing in photo op that some Members choose to have with the Speaker later for their family. Most don't even do this. This whole thing makes the "War on Christmas" look intellectual. But of course, this serves the purpose Prager intended. Scare the rubes.

Good ungod, Pat, you're right. That is hilarious.

Prager's going to stupidly blow the whole game for the Republicans who are trying to cram together a big coalition of "believers" whom they feel they can easily manipulate with their brilliant minds. Prager is trolling around with his big, obvious net, thinking he's going to snare all the stupid little believers and get invivted to all the ruling class parties where they'll drink and snort and fornicate and laugh at rubes, as always. He pictures himself at these parties, standing with his brilliant "believers" net, next to Bill O'Reilly with his wiley "war on Christmas" net, dumping all the rube voters they've snared out onto the table while young groupie girls swoon and gasp at the size of their gigantic brains.

I dislike the overuse of "breathtaking", as if we were prudish schoolmarms getting mooned by the class clown.

Biggest offender, J.M.Marshal at talkingpointsmemo.com

Yes - how does Mitt Romney feel about the whole thing? Is there room in the Republican Party for a "crazed Mormon heretic" who doesn't believe what Dennis Prager believes?

How long before brother Prager leads people with pitchforks and torches down the road to drive those wacky Mormons from their homes?

That article at The Head Heeb mentioned above is really excellent,

http://headheeb.blogmosis.com/archives/033303.html

The measure that Goode and Prager are describing as revolutionary and threatening has been part of the common law since before the United States even existed, and has been applied in countless trials, state legislative proceedings, citizenship ceremonies and other places where oaths are taken. And the last time I looked, the country is still here.

I was too harsh on the ruling class above. I don't know what goes on at their parties, and although, as [Roger] Wilkins has put it, with a chuckle, “God knows, most people in Washington have led robust sex lives,� I don't actually know how journos and pundits behave at parties. But I'd put a large bet down that they laugh at the rubes.

"so what should Prager do, as he has fallen into his own litter box?"

Don't ever insult cats by comparing them to Dennis Prager. I hope Kevin sics Jasmine and Inkblot after you.

I hope Kevin sics Jasmine and Inkblot after you.

Well, I could fall down and use my right shin and my right shin only and I could outrun and escape from Mr. Drum's cats with no problem whatsoever.

Guys like Prager Limbaugh and Coulter do a great service more and more. We've been exposed to such a high volume of shrieking and bile from them I think the public is finally tiring of them.

look at what limbaugh said about Michael J Fox. Call me insane but I think that helped pushed the election for McCaskill.

So let Prager continue to talk, he does nothing but helps further marginalize the more hardcore right wing into a band of kooks.

Global Citizen and Shortstop,

Did you know, GC, that that Arlo tune in your head, was first sung to Arlo in a Chicago bar by the song's writer, Steve Goodman?

Try running Salut les armoureux, by Dassin, through your head as well - A French takeoff on City of.

But, is Willie Nelson's version choppable armadillo?

egbert at 10:58am was a FAKE.

Doesn't surprise me though. Usually when you libs got nothing, you revert to juvenalia.

And the Pubs to pedophilia.

I actually did know that, Paul. Gee, I haven't thought of the late great Steve Goodman in so long. Do they still sing the blues in Chicago when baseball season rolls around? Yes, they do.

Morons like Prager who chirp about the moral "authority" of the first five books of the Bible (i.e. the Pentaeuch), clearly haven't bothered to read them. If they had, and tried to live by them, they would not eat shellfish, or wear clothing made of two different types of cloth and keep their beards trimmed below the jawline (its all in Leviticus). We would also stone women to death who commit adultery, keep slaves and beat those slaves to death who are disobedient to their masters (its in Deuteronomy).

Pale Rider did you manage to look up any article about Prager before you opened your ignorant mouth. Not only has Prager read them he teaches the first five books verse by verse at the University of Judaism. Please don't make ignorant comments.

I actually did know that, Paul. Gee, I haven't thought of the late great Steve Goodman in so long. Do they still sing the blues in Chicago when baseball season rolls around? Yes, they do.

Posted by: shortstop on December 27, 2006 at 6:14 PM

Well, they didn't on the South Side in 2005. How soon we forget.

I find it amazing the people who have jumped on the bandwagon against one of the most thoughtful men in America. His complaint, which seems to go unnoticed, was not that the Quran was to be used, but that the Bible was to be excluded. He did not care if the Quran was used, but wanted at least the Bible to be present.

His point was that the Bible is more than a religious book. It is the very book that founded the tolerant society that we have in America. He, as a Jew, holds a viewpoint ( which is correct in my opinion ) that conservative Christians are much more tolerant than liberalism or even more liberal religions have been.

Many people have objected to his column including fellow conservatives. They never countered the argument that the Bible is the foundation of our society, but solely argued on the basis of a perceived religious bigotry. This is partly because the Prager argument was advanced to true bigotry by people like Congressman Goode, who appears to be either a true religious bigot or probably more accurately feels that he can have a better chance of reelection if he takes this public position.

I could go on and on about who the real Dennis Prager is having listened to him for over 20 years on the radio, but that would be a waste of space. I invite anyone who thinks Prager is an ignoramus to pick up one of his books, or go to his site and read any one of his thoughtful essays. You can disagree with him, but you can't dismiss him as unitelligent.

Well, they didn't on the South Side in 2005. How soon we forget.

No one's forgotten. The song I was quoting was written specifically about the Cubs.

John: There isn't a requirement that a bible be present at the ACTUAL SWEARING IN of Members of Congress. Why should there have to be one present at the fake swearing in photo-op he might choose to have later with the Speaker? This is the argument of "one of the most thoughtful men in America?" Hilarious.

…The real Dennis Prager is having listened to him for over 20 years on the radio…John Hansen at 8:47 PM

The full show is Prager spouting racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, war mongering, etc.

Like the "War on Christmas" flap, this isn't really about the Bible or Christianity as a faith; it's about the erosion of "Christendom", that informal cultural hegemony that Christianity (in a vaguely Protestant, civil-religon sense) once enjoyed, and to which a goodly number of American Christians have come to feel entitled.

Prayer in public school, same deal. A rote, purely ceremonial deference to "Christian culture" or "Christian sensibilities" is demanded of the nation's religious minorities as the price of their being allowed to exist here.

The Christian Right crowd (and their secular or non-Christian allies like Prager) know there's no established religion or religious test for office, and they don't really want or expect one to be created; they just want to make sure everyone else knows they're still in charge of the culture. Pathetic, of course, but understandable from a psychological standpoint.

John, like you I've listened to DP for over 20 years. How did you miss the drift from an often interesting moderate to a full blown wingnut? Prager's downfall is that he is emotional and lazy - all he had to do was call Henry and ask him what he uses. He goes off the deep end on one thing or another on a regular basis; This one is over the top and bigoted but Prager could easily title his autobiography "A Horse Too High".

As a foreigner I rather thought the Christ Denying Reich were celebrating traditions like Aryan Nation and Klu Klux Klan : vilification, hatred and recommending remedial action. I call them Christ denying because it's too much of a stretch for me to find any vilification of theocracy in their rants : unless it's someone else's, of course.

Alan: Maybe I missed the drift from ".. often interesting moderate to a full blown wingnut..." because I have heard the same thing you have heard only interpret it through a different lens.

DP has not stopped thinking out his positions carefully. To call him emotional and lazy is to lie, and if you listen to him you would know that. He is very careful to stake out a clear position (one of his mottos being "clarity, over agreement") and is very courteous to those he disagrees with even when they descend to ad hominem attacks. Like all men, he sometimes stakes out a position that may be incorrect and then has to ( since he is brave enough to go on national radio ) defend it.

I don't think he has drifted to becoming a wingnut. On the contrary, I think he has latched on to many conservative positions as he has seen the leaders of the liberal philosophy that he grew up with follow the current of the politically correct and emotional. Perhaps your positions too have been caught up in the steady stream of thinking that emanates from the left controlled universities and intellegentsia.

I see Prager as one who has stood still or moved slightly to the right. Perhaps you saw this as a drift to wingnut because you were being swept away by the flood of leftist thought.

Pale Rider did you manage to look up any article about Prager before you opened your ignorant mouth. Not only has Prager read them he teaches the first five books verse by verse at the University of Judaism. Please don't make ignorant comments.

Well, actually--The Conservative Deflator made those comments, not me.

But thanks for giving my a good laugh this morning, dumbass...

"the flood of leftist thought"

Ah, yes, the Bush Dam Flood of November 7. And the thoughts are still trickling down.

Pale Rider,

Please accept my apology. I absolutely should have addressed the comments to "The Conservative Deflator".